Wednesday, 2017-02-22

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ianychoiaeng, pahuang : Oh it is >6pm but are you online now? I am in PTG and I will discuss Zanata upgrade things soon with Infra team - clarkb. Do you have some issues to be discussed with infra team?08:16
ianychoiNote that I have tested all things and now it seems that all are working well (although glossary needs to be manually deleted and re-imported):
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ianychoirsimai, hello! Can I talk with you now?08:37
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rsimaiianychoi: sorry for the late ping back, meetings ...09:42
ianychoirsimai, fine :)09:42
rsimaiianychoi: still on call but can type09:42
ianychoirsimai, I see. :) I just wanted to talk with you for some discussion on your mentioning on glossary order:
rsimaiianychoi: thanks for looking into it. Do we have an issue?09:43
ianychoirsimai, yep first of all Sphinx does not support re-ordering of TOCs...09:44
ianychoirsimai, I have discussed this thing with katomo via offline09:44
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rsimaiianychoi: and is there any solution? I think it's nice to have proper tranlations but a not sorted glossary is not user friendly :-)09:47
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rsimaiianychoi: ... and I wonder if the German team is the only one that's translating some of the terms and hits the problem...09:52
ianychoirsimai, IMO.. those seem to be less problems than German and French (at least) - because German and French mainly uses Latin characters09:54
ianychoirsimai, on the other hand, Korea, Japan, and China use non-latin characters - it would mean that local readers might easily acknowledge that the original glossary is based on latin-alphabet order09:55
rsimaiianychoi: do they also translate the original (latin) terms or do they leave them untouched and just translate the explanations?09:56
ianychoirsimai, however, after seeing your article on the mailing list, I think yep - the local people who are in latin-character culture (not only 26 alphabets but also other latin characters) might be confused09:56
ianychoirsimai, so one simple and possible option might be to include both origianal and translated terms just for glossary when translating to Zanata09:57
rsimaiianychoi: you mean to keep the original term, in brackets or so?09:58
rsimaiianychoi: I though about it, but it's still confusing. Probably less than without...09:59
ianychoirsimai, yes - since there is no programmable alternative approach currently.. unfortunately.. to re-order in TOC09:59
ianychoiHow about like "[original term] ([translated term])" rsimai ?10:00
rsimaiianychoi: well, yes. I guess I'll briefly discuss with the German team and we finally document this within our dictionary.10:01
rsimaiianychoi: I understand a technical solution is not preferred this time10:02
rsimaiianychoi: but I still wonder how's that for you and others, who don't use (the original) latin sort order10:03
ianychoirsimai, yep For Korean, I usually say keeping with English terms for glossary would be a good idea - but I need to more discuss with ujuc - Korean coordinaror10:08
ianychoirsimai, for Japanese,
ianychoirsimai, many japanese terms are shown also with English10:09
rsimaiianychoi: I see, thanks for the link. They actually have a much bigger confusion because of the different characters. I think I should be happy :-)10:11
ianychoirsimai, yep but Japanese people use 3 types of characters and the most Japanese characters in the link is Katakana - which is just mainly used for reading English words10:12
ianychoirsimai, It means that.. Japanese people easily figure out 'A', 'B' or 'C" after reading Katakana10:13
rsimaiianychoi: I understand. A different question. We're working on Master but currently publish Newton. Is there a script to merge what's in Master into Newton and to re-publish the guide?10:13
ianychoirsimai, the policy of openstack-manuals team for landing page is to use only master branch10:18
ianychoirsimai, for example, Japanese team landing page has links to prev. releases:
ianychoirsimai, script side means how to build branched documents ?10:21
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rsimaiianychoi: when I look at openstack-manuals I see we've completed 15% of the "common" file but in Master it's 56%. E.g. the glossary of what we hav published in the Newton install-guide comes out of that.10:37
rsimaiianychoi: I wonder how the strings will be fed back from master to e.g. Newton. We could do this manually in Zanata but there must be a better way10:40
ianychoirsimai, oh really? in German, common in master is 56% and common in newton is 15%?10:40
rsimaiianychoi: yes, that's what I see10:40
ianychoirsimai, for this thing, I can execute translation merge functionality10:40
ianychoirsimai, it needs my manual execution - merging is usually nice but sometimes it needs to be managed carefully10:41
ianychoirsimai, one problem in merge execution is that merge execution applies to all the manuals10:41
rsimaiianychoi: it's not 100% and it will take some time but since we've published the guide and substantial parts are missing I guess it makes sense10:42
ianychoirsimai, this is why I am worried about but if we need such merging execution then I can execute it10:42
ianychoirsimai, +1 for your approach - for common, considering master now is a good idea10:42
rsimaiianychoi: if it's tricky, then hold on for a while. But we've massively improved that guide, yet nobody benefits from it10:43
ianychoirsimai, however, I am not pretty sure whether always backporting from master to prev. releases is a good idea or not10:43
rsimaithe majority of strings appears to be identical. You'll see this in Zanata as there are suggestions with 100% match10:44
ianychoirsimai, I18n team usually says to other teams (openstack-manuals, horizon, and so on) that backporting of strings might cause too much changes for translation10:44
ianychoirsimai, I see. Just note that Ocata documentation will be released soon then I think we can publish much faster for German Ocata install-guide with much improved glossary10:45
rsimaiianychoi: I trust you know this better, just wanted to ask10:46
ianychoirsimai, you already knew a lot :) And your feedback is so important - different language teams may have different cultural backgrounds. Sometimes I do not notice this thing..10:48
ianychoiOne difficulity in I18n PTL is that it is relatively not easy to understand all different culture from all of countries. For example, I did not notice a few weeks ago that Chinese team had a long vacation for Chinese new-year during Soft & Hard StringFreeze period10:50
ianychoiBut I am trying to more understand and feedback from language coordinators is so valuable :)10:50
ianychoiAnd I belive that more conversation and communication will result to more qualified translation result to more countries10:52
rsimaiianychoi: you probably have a more challenging job than those who can focus "just" on technology, which is the same anywhere in the world11:09
rsimaiianychoi: you indeed have to deal with languages and therefore cultures to a wider degree.11:09
rsimaiianychoi: however, don't give up, you're doing great! :-)11:10
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ianychoirsimai, thanks a lot :) Your encouraging and feedback are so nice + I really appreciate your dealing with German language team. Have a good afternoon and feel free to ping me anytime (although sometimes my response would be late but I will track after seeing them)!12:58
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robcresswellamotoki: I have your pen :)15:31
amotokirobcresswell: I heard it yesterday. thanks for taking care of it.15:32
amotokirobcresswell: where are you today?15:32
robcresswellamotoki: In the Ironic room (same as Horizon)15:34
robcresswellamotoki: Ill be at the horizon/i18n meeting tomorrow afternoon15:34
amotokirobcresswell: I am in the neutron room next to ironic. will go there soon15:41
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ianychoiamotoki, Hope that you will come to tomorrow horizon/i18n session without conflicting with other schedules (today morning, I ate breakfast with katomo and we were worried about such worse conflicts)16:43
amotokiianychoi: Thurday afternoon schedule is tentative to me. neutron is the first priority to me as neutron drivers.16:45
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amotokiianychoi: I hope i can join but not sure at the moment. I think you and katomo can do well :)16:46
ianychoiamotoki, yep I totally understand your situation. I will try to share discussion topics before the meeting to listen to your opinions as much as possible16:46
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ianychoiamotoki, haha thanks a lot for saying such. However, me is not perfect - sometimes I might not notice some more important topics..:)16:47
amotokiianychoi: :)16:48
amotokiianychoi: the horizon-i18n session wil be held at 3-4pm, right?16:49
ianychoiamotoki, yep 3-4pm tomorrow16:49
amotokiianychoi: thanks, will take care of the time as best16:49
ianychoiamotoki, thanks a lot!16:49
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jpichblergh the session that includes the release model issues clashes with the tripleo-ui session. Looking forward to reading the notes21:50
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ianychoijpich, hi would 3-4 pm tomorrow will have some conflict with you?22:43
ianychoijpich, yep Wed-Fri are mainly for Verticall discussions T.T22:44
jpichianychoi: Yes, it's the only session specifically for TripleO UI in the tripleo schedule ->
jpichProbably the release management people will have good input on cycle-trailing etc :)22:45
ianychoijpich, oh so sorry about that. Would it be possible to change tripleo-ui time to other topic time in tripleo discussion?22:45
ianychoijpich, or would it be better for me to say such thing with tripleo PTL?22:46
jpichianychoi: I think jtomasek is the main person impacted (core tripleo-ui developer) as he leads the talk so I'm not sure. I don't want to cause issues with either room22:47
ianychoijpich, thanks a lot for your saying. I just thought that a kind of announcement from Rob like would be fine. I will discuss with robcresswell. Thanks!22:50
jpichianychoi: Yes, the focus is Horizon, I'm just curious about the release models part22:50
jpichMaybe we can catch up after the session :)22:50
ianychoijpich, sure but unfortunately I am now organizing one more discussion on 4:00-4:30 pm with OpenStackAnsible and Infra team. Maybe we can discuss during Feedback session or some timeframe on Friday. I will stay by Friday :)22:52
jpichianychoi: I am around Friday too, flying in the evening. I'm sure we will manage to talk :) Good job on organising all the important sessions for the i18n team!!22:53
ianychoijpich, it's my great pleasure and I think you are also participating a lot in TripleO! :)22:54
jpichMostly trying to keep up for now... hopefully it will be easier during the tripleo-ui session!!22:54
jpichianychoi: Have a good evening :)22:55
ianychoiHaha yep! jpich you too :) See you soon!22:55
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openstackgerritKATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/i18n master: Cleanup I18n Guide
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openstackgerritKATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/i18n master: Make description for ATC accurate
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