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| clarkb | anteaya: yes | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| clarkb | ok on a real computer now, looking at etherpad stuff | 00:02 |
| anteaya | k | 00:03 |
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| fungi | grr. my first tempest run ran into bug 1217734 so this may take a while | 00:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1217734 in python-keystoneclient "FAIL: setUpClass (tempest.api.compute.servers.test_server_rescue.ServerRescueTestXML Unauthorized) " [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1217734 | 00:06 |
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| clarkb | there are 900 revisions of that pad | 00:13 |
| clarkb | trying to bisect that list now to find where the list of actions lives | 00:14 |
| clarkb | I could also grab all of them and deal with it that way | 00:14 |
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| anteaya | that is a lot of revisions | 00:17 |
| anteaya | I'm wondering why that history isn't available via the gui | 00:17 |
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| clarkb | anteaya: because timeslider is derpy, There is a long standing bug open on it not working always on the github issue tracker | 00:19 |
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| clarkb | lifeless: so, revision 894 is the revisions that reset the data | 00:19 |
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| clarkb | lifeless: revision 893 does not have an actions list | 00:19 |
| clarkb | lifeless: I can paste 893 on paste.o.o | 00:19 |
| lifeless | clarkb: can you reset it back to 893 or something? | 00:19 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: a paste would be a good start | 00:20 |
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| anteaya | clarkb: ah | 00:24 |
| clarkb | lifeless: http://paste.openstack.org/show/53872/ revision 893. The only editing I did was the replace \n with actual newlines | 00:25 |
| clarkb | oh derp, my vim display trailing spaces as dashes shows up in there too :/ | 00:26 |
| lifeless | clarkb: LOL | 00:26 |
| clarkb | but other than those two things, that text is original :) | 00:26 |
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| clarkb | lifeless: hope that helps | 00:28 |
| lifeless | I'l paste that back on the pad | 00:28 |
| lifeless | if you can reset it that would be better | 00:28 |
| clarkb | for those following along, I used the getRevisionsCount API call to get an upper bound, then worked backward with getText until I found the replacement | 00:28 |
| clarkb | lifeless: I think that adding a new revision with the old content is preferable. Mostly because the DB schema for etherpad is weird and I don't want to do writes on it right now :) | 00:29 |
| clarkb | but also for the same reasons you make git revert commits | 00:29 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: mmm, no, this isn't a distributed system. | 00:31 |
| lifeless | clarkb: all of the git reasons have to do with that. | 00:31 |
| clarkb | lifeless: right but the history of the derp is valid as history | 00:31 |
| lifeless | not really | 00:32 |
| clarkb | why not? it happened | 00:32 |
| clarkb | (and people noticed it happened) | 00:32 |
| clarkb | I think this sort of discussion is similar to "should rebase ever be used" | 00:32 |
| clarkb | darcs says no, many git users say yes, no one agrees | 00:33 |
| lifeless | mmm | 00:33 |
| lifeless | actually I think you'll find darcs' internals are much more rebase like than you think | 00:33 |
| lifeless | particular around ejecting patches accidentally merged | 00:34 |
| lifeless | rebase on public branches has issues which are due to the behaviour of distributed systems | 00:34 |
| lifeless | which this isn't... | 00:34 |
| clarkb | I thought darcs refuses to provide a rebase operation through its UI | 00:35 |
| clarkb | as a user you cannot rewrite history with darcs | 00:35 |
| lifeless | hah | 00:35 |
| lifeless | as a darcs user history is somewhat subjective | 00:35 |
| clarkb | oh looks like they are adding proper rebase | 00:36 |
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| clarkb | added earlier this year | 00:37 |
| lifeless | if you were to argue 'hey, don't delete misguided edits, undo them' - thats fine. But 'someone messed up the entire state by mistake' - its a bit of a bigger fixup :> | 00:37 |
| lifeless | anyhow | 00:37 |
| lifeless | move on | 00:37 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: http://koweycode.blogspot.co.nz/2011/04/why-darcs-users-care-about-consistency.html | 00:42 |
| lifeless | clarkb: that gets at some of the plumbing I'm offhandedly referring to | 00:42 |
| lifeless | "As a Darcs user you are freed from a lot of the artefacts of worrying about commit order. Collaborating with people is just question of shuffling patches around, with no merge states, no rebases, way fewer spurious dependencies to worry about." | 00:43 |
| lifeless | clarkb: I think you'll find it a fun read | 00:44 |
| clarkb | ya reading it now, so far quite interesting | 00:45 |
| anteaya | I'm enjoying it | 00:46 |
| clarkb | darcs rebase shows up too | 00:47 |
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| fungi | ugh. gotten this tempest failure twice in a row... http://paste.openstack.org/show/53874/ | 01:10 |
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| clarkb | possibly related to libvirt? | 01:32 |
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| fungi | i don't know. that was on rackspace so i'm retrying on hpcloud now | 01:35 |
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| fungi | if i can repeat it there consistently, i'm going to try toggling versions of libvirt for comparison | 01:35 |
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| clarkb | anything related to server build fails is going to make me wary as that is what libvirt is for | 01:36 |
| clarkb | good idea | 01:36 |
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| portante | clarkb: hello, do all the log files make it into logstash? | 01:37 |
| clarkb | not all but most | 01:37 |
| clarkb | the lisg | 01:37 |
| clarkb | er the list is at openstack-infra/config/modules/openstack_project/files/logstash/somethingclient.yaml | 01:38 |
| portante | I noticed that searching for the string: txdb6be9b4235d41cfabb9d-00529077a7, did not hit http://logs.openstack.org/69/43069/2/gate/gate-grenade-devstack-vm/dc8c793/logs/new/screen-s-proxy.txt.gz | 01:38 |
| portante | on that gate job, for some reason the proxy-server entries did not land it syslog.txt, only in the screen session | 01:38 |
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| clarkb | swift proxy logs are not indexed as they dont log enough info and have no apparent structure | 01:39 |
| portante | oh, can we get that changed? | 01:39 |
| lifeless | fungi: I have now answered in that PCI passthrough thread. | 01:39 |
| clarkb | there is apache combined stuff + whatever | 01:39 |
| portante | clarkb: we need that stuff logged | 01:39 |
| portante | indexed, sorry | 01:39 |
| clarkb | portante: if swift switches to consistent log format with timestamps yes we can add it | 01:39 |
| portante | hmm | 01:41 |
| portante | I htink we are noticing two different things | 01:41 |
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| portante | 1st, there are not proxy-server log entries in syslog.txt | 01:41 |
| clarkb | notmyname said I could do this by writing a middleware iirc, my argument that seift should log cleanly by default lost | 01:41 |
| portante | clarkb: I think that is a problem, as swift should be configured the same way as the object, container and account servers, which are logging to syslog.txt | 01:42 |
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| clarkb | (bbackward compat being the consideration) | 01:42 |
| portante | can I find the final proxy-server.conf file that is generated for a given run? | 01:42 |
| clarkb | yes it is in the logs dir on logs.o.o for that run | 01:43 |
| clarkb | er no | 01:43 |
| clarkb | sorry thought you wanted the log file | 01:43 |
| portante | I want to find out why the proxy-server log entries are not there for the grenade runs, I have seen them there in other runs | 01:43 |
| clarkb | this is another issue with swift :) you can't move the conf dir which makes taring all the conf files to save them a pain | 01:44 |
| clarkb | other projects have this problem too | 01:44 |
| portante | that would be a useful thing to support, I agree | 01:44 |
| portante | I could then run comparison tests for performance much easier | 01:44 |
| portante | so the /etc/swift/* directory is not saved after a run? | 01:45 |
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| clarkb | it is not | 01:46 |
| portante | rats | 01:46 |
| clarkb | we probably wont do that until we can have an /etc/devstack/* then tar all of /etc/devstack | 01:46 |
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| clarkb | what you can do is apply the transformations locally | 01:47 |
| clarkb | devstack takes the in project example configs and updates them using functions in devstack/lib/$project | 01:47 |
| clarkb | if you grab that lib file you should be able to apply just the transformations without a full devstack run | 01:48 |
| portante | clarkb, is devstack used for all check and gate jobs? | 01:51 |
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| clarkb | for any with devstack in the job name. grenade doesn't use devstack directly but does use the devstack/lib/project files | 01:53 |
| clarkb | oh and swift functional uses devstack to install and start swift | 01:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Noorul Islam K M proposed a change to openstack-dev/cookiecutter: Add missing HACKING.rst https://review.openstack.org/58163 | 02:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Noorul Islam K M proposed a change to openstack-dev/cookiecutter: Add reasons to ignore certain flake8 checks https://review.openstack.org/58176 | 02:45 |
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| lifeless | jog0: is E126 new? | 03:16 |
| lifeless | jog0: where do these new nits get discussed, cause I think E126 generates terrible formatting | 03:16 |
| clarkb | E126 is not new and from pep8, it is E125's siblif (elif insteaf of if iirc) | 03:16 |
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| clarkb | and most agree with you about both | 03:17 |
| lifeless | it wants | 03:17 |
| lifeless | help='Where to write output. If - stdout is used and only one output' | 03:17 |
| lifeless | 'format may be given. Otherwise the output format is appended to' | 03:17 |
| lifeless | -> | 03:17 |
| lifeless | help='Where to write output. If - stdout is used and only one output' | 03:17 |
| lifeless | 'format may be given. Otherwise the output format is appended to' | 03:17 |
| dstufft | or it wants you to line up the ' | 03:17 |
| clarkb | we ignore both in many infra projects | 03:17 |
| dstufft | I think | 03:18 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I don't think that's necessarily what it wants, there are definitely other ways to make it happy, I use this one and I find the latter supper ugly :-) | 03:18 |
| dstufft | and yea i find the latter ugly as sin too and I'm pretty sure I don't disable E126 anywhere | 03:18 |
| lifeless | dstufft: thats a 'visual indent' where it gives E128 if it's wrong. | 03:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Tweak formatting for hacking. https://review.openstack.org/58181 | 03:28 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Cookiecutterify reviewstats. https://review.openstack.org/58182 | 03:28 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Ignore E126. https://review.openstack.org/58183 | 03:28 |
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| fungi | clarkb: yeah, not going well. same server in error state failures on hpcloud as well (tried twice there). without enabling cloud archive, full tempest completes with no problems. i've followed up to the ml thread | 04:32 |
| clarkb | thank you | 04:34 |
| jog0 | clarkb: ping | 04:36 |
| clarkb | pong | 04:36 |
| jog0 | clarkb: can you review the wrapup at the bottom https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/critical-patches-gatecrash-November-2013 | 04:37 |
| clarkb | yup | 04:37 |
| jog0 | want to send it out today before the full monday deluge | 04:37 |
| clarkb | jog0 lgtm | 04:41 |
| clarkb | I made on spelling fix | 04:41 |
| clarkb | *one | 04:41 |
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| jog0 | clarkb: cool | 04:42 |
| jog0 | you think the email is on target etc? | 04:42 |
| clarkb | I think so. It explains what and why and our future plans | 04:42 |
| jog0 | cool, off it goes | 04:43 |
| jog0 | clarkb: can I put your name at the bottom | 04:44 |
| jog0 | as you wrote a bunch of it | 04:44 |
| clarkb | only if you put yours too :) | 04:44 |
| jog0 | haha of course | 04:44 |
| mordred | holy shit sunday backscroll | 04:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Noorul Islam K M proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Make python33 gate voting for solum project https://review.openstack.org/58187 | 04:46 |
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| clarkb | mordred: just for you | 04:50 |
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| jog0 | clarkb: hows this for the TL;DR TL;DR Last week the gate got wedged on nondeterministic failures, we took drastic actions and unwedged the gate. | 04:51 |
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| jog0 | mordred: ^ | 04:52 |
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| clarkb | ... took drastic actions to fix bugs unwedging the gate | 04:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Still proposed a change to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: Tell people to do a recheck https://review.openstack.org/56118 | 04:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Yuuichi Fujioka proposed a change to openstack-dev/hacking: Add metaclass for Python3 compatibility https://review.openstack.org/56890 | 04:53 |
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| mordred | Alex_Gaynor, dstufft: the E12* checks in pep8 are super derpy and (saying this as a person who regularly writes code which overreaches authority) overreach the purpose of the tool | 04:56 |
| jog0 | clarkb: TL;DR Last week the gate got wedged on nondeterministic failures. Unwedging the gate required drastic actions to fix bugs. | 04:56 |
| jog0 | hows that | 04:56 |
| mordred | E123, E125 and E126 are not enforcements of PEP8, they are enforcements of random thoughts that the pep8 tool author had - which would be fine if they were not labeled pep8 | 04:57 |
| * mordred likes E125 for instance | 04:57 | |
| mikal | jog0: speaking of which, lifeless and I had a quick look at that create_backup test late last week | 04:57 |
| mikal | jog0: and then I decieded to go to dinner instead | 04:57 |
| mordred | mikal: dinner is always the right choice | 04:57 |
| jog0 | mordred: sounds like a wise choice to me | 04:58 |
| mikal | jog0: but it looks like taking a snapshot in libvirt 0.9.8 is a cold process involving a new domain. That test does that over and over. Perhaps it somehow breaks the libvirt domain we're trying to get console logs from? | 04:58 |
| mordred | mikal: I will say that a possible argument against dinner is "booze" - but other than that, dinner should win | 04:58 |
| mikal | mordred: LOL | 04:58 |
| clarkb | jog0 lgtm | 04:59 |
| jog0 | mikal: hmm when did we go to libvirt 0.9.8 | 04:59 |
| clarkb | precise has 0.9.8 | 04:59 |
| clarkb | and cloud archive libvirt appears broken | 04:59 |
| jog0 | because when that teest passed the check queue every time but failed in gate and needed a reverify | 05:00 |
| jog0 | anyway that bug isn't closed so fill out the bug report with your findings if you haven't done so lalready | 05:00 |
| jog0 | clarkb: email sent, mikal its still the weekend here so ttyl | 05:01 |
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| zaro | clarkb: you gonna be in tomorrow? | 05:15 |
| clarkb | zaro: no going to work remotely | 05:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move tests into the setuptools structure. https://review.openstack.org/58201 | 06:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Liang Chen proposed a change to openstack-dev/pbr: Make sphinx builders configurable in LocalBuildDoc https://review.openstack.org/57892 | 07:14 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move utils into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58204 | 07:22 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Basic usage instructions. https://review.openstack.org/58205 | 07:22 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move openapproved into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58206 | 07:22 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move reviews_for_bugs into reviewstats. https://review.openstack.org/58207 | 07:22 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move openreviews into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58208 | 07:22 |
| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move reviewers.py into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58209 | 07:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Document what it takes to be a check/gate test. https://review.openstack.org/55761 | 07:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Start running regular jobs on reviewstats. https://review.openstack.org/58210 | 07:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | lifeless proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Start running regular jobs on reviewstats. https://review.openstack.org/58210 | 07:34 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: I am sure you have a tonne of backlog, but I'd love to have https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55761/ get an eye cast over it: I'd like to be able to point folk at reference docs for this ;) | 07:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jaroslav Henner proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Add batch_tasks support. https://review.openstack.org/57469 | 10:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Jaroslav Henner proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Add seealso to batch_tasks from promoted_build. https://review.openstack.org/57473 | 10:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/requirements: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/56657 | 10:53 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/requirements: Add both climate repos for auto reqs update https://review.openstack.org/58152 | 10:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Arx Cruz proposed a change to openstack-infra/zuul: Add the possibility to pass the zuul url https://review.openstack.org/54196 | 12:22 |
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| chandankumar | hello | 12:55 |
| chandankumar | I am not able to login into openstack wiki using launchapd id | 12:56 |
| chandankumar | please someone help me? | 12:56 |
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| sdague | man, quieter monday morning than I'm used to :) | 13:48 |
| krtaylor | morning sdague | 13:49 |
| mordred | sdague: things don't seem to have fallen apart in the last couple of days | 13:52 |
| sdague | nice, that's good to hear :) | 13:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/cookiecutter: Add missing HACKING.rst https://review.openstack.org/58163 | 14:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/cookiecutter: Add reasons to ignore certain flake8 checks https://review.openstack.org/58176 | 14:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/config: Make python33 gate voting for solum project https://review.openstack.org/58187 | 14:16 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ooh. ooh. | 14:18 |
| mordred | I just had a betterer though on the upload-wheels job | 14:18 |
| mordred | we should write it to assume that the things it's going to make wheels of are universal wheels | 14:19 |
| mordred | and then only add the upload wheels jobs to our projects that are py2/py3 compliant | 14:19 |
| mordred | I believe that should cover most of our current concern with them | 14:19 |
| mordred | and make us not have to have quite so many confusing jobs | 14:20 |
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| sdague | where are ttx's release scripts for automatically doing things to lp artifacts? | 14:22 |
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| fungi | sdague: https://github.com/ttx/openstack-releasing | 14:25 |
| sdague | man, ttx doesn't keep it in gerrit :) | 14:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | QianLin proposed a change to openstack-infra/nodepool: Fix the logprint in task_manager.py https://review.openstack.org/58294 | 14:30 |
| mordred | ttx: maybe it's time to move that repo into gerrit | 14:30 |
| mordred | ttx: even if it's not 'ready' | 14:31 |
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| mordred | ttx: if I'm going to give bryce shit about the website, I should probably be consistent and give you shit at the same time | 14:31 |
| * mordred officially gives ttx shit | 14:32 | |
| fungi | mordred: speaking of handing out complimentary fecal matter, are you also planning to be on the o'reilly press integration planning call today? | 14:34 |
| mordred | fungi: oh god. when is that? | 14:34 |
| mordred | 1-1:30 eastern is it? | 14:34 |
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| fungi | yeah, 1800-1830z | 14:35 |
| mordred | k | 14:35 |
| mordred | on my calendar now | 14:35 |
| mordred | thank you | 14:35 |
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| mordred | fungi: how far did you get with them last time? | 14:36 |
| fungi | mordred: basically last time i had about 30 minutes to reexplain our workflow to them (because these aren't the same people we'd talked to originally there) and then figure out what could be done in a week while everyone else was out/busy since they had a deadline | 14:37 |
| mordred | ok. so you've explained our workflow to them at least | 14:37 |
| mordred | which means today will be explain workflow #3 overall | 14:38 |
| mordred | and in another 2 months they might get it | 14:38 |
| fungi | yeah. i initially started to push them toward synchronous work, but they expressed major concerns about merge conflicts on docbook/xml content | 14:38 |
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| fungi | and the complexity of trying to resolve those | 14:38 |
| mordred | yah | 14:38 |
| mordred | well, so here's the thing I think I'd like to bring home if we can ... | 14:39 |
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| mordred | which is that we've done a ton of work to ensure that none of our contributors are more special than any of our other contributors | 14:39 |
| ttx | mordred: in my case it's officially because i'm overworked | 14:39 |
| mordred | sometimes to the pain of some of the contributors | 14:39 |
| mordred | for that reason, it's very important that we do not have a special process for o'reilly because they are "special" | 14:39 |
| ttx | mordred: but yeah, I guess I can clean them up AFTER they are moved centrally | 14:39 |
| fungi | ttx: your new top priority is that cloning device which makes more ttxes | 14:39 |
| ttx | mordred: I always wanted to clean them up BEFORE moving them | 14:40 |
| mordred | ttx: I can do the config patch to suck them in if you're fine with that | 14:40 |
| mordred | ttx: I know the feeling | 14:40 |
| ttx | mordred: that said, they used to be in a bzr repo so it could be worse. | 14:40 |
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| mordred | ttx: testr still is | 14:40 |
| ttx | mordred: I'm fine with you sucking my stuff in. | 14:41 |
| fungi | mordred: actually a good chunk of the last call was trying to get them accustomed to the idea that "git" is not "github" | 14:41 |
| ttx | I might regret that one | 14:41 |
| mordred | fungi: so either a) we need to identify what's wrong with docbook/xml process for _all_ of our contributors and fix it, or b) o'reilly needs to use the process as is | 14:41 |
| fungi | expect them to continue using github workflow terminology on this call | 14:41 |
| mordred | fungi: that is a thing I'm well equipped to handle | 14:41 |
| mordred | we should start referring to the linux kernel workflow, which also does not use github | 14:41 |
| fungi | yes. we develop like the linux kernel, except we replace the mailing list with a code review system and replace the benevolent dictator with a distributed meritocracy of code reviewers | 14:42 |
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| fungi | that's how i've started trying to explain it, though that's only helpful when explaining to people who are already familiar with linux kernel development (i.e. a very small cross section of the developer population) | 14:43 |
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| mordred | fungi: I'm going to tweet that as "We develop like Linux, except email is a code review system and the benevolent dictator is a meritocracy of code reviewers" | 14:46 |
| mordred | (140 character is hard) | 14:46 |
| mordred | or maybe | 14:46 |
| mordred | "We develop like Linux, except with a code review system and the benevolent dictator is a meritocracy of code reviewers" | 14:47 |
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| ttx | mordred: I tend to think our benevolent dictator is a system centered around code review and strict gating | 14:49 |
| ttx | rather than a set of people | 14:49 |
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| ttx | our dictator is a set of house rules that we collectively set | 14:49 |
| markmc | argument against that would be a robot can't design software :) | 14:49 |
| markmc | i.e. that the benevolent dictator has a major design influence | 14:50 |
| ttx | (and that we accept to follow) | 14:50 |
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| ttx | I'm looking into those models for a future presentation / blogpost | 14:51 |
| ttx | Linux is a BDFL-centered trust tree | 14:52 |
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| ttx | OpenStack is an organic set of development rules | 14:52 |
| ttx | gravitating around the gate | 14:52 |
| ttx | that do not really involve people or trust as much | 14:52 |
| markmc | sure, that's the process side | 14:53 |
| ttx | which means it's more resilient to node failure | 14:53 |
| markmc | the "OpenStack needs a BDFL" claims are more about leadership and design influence, though | 14:53 |
| markmc | AFAICT | 14:53 |
| markmc | not that I agree with them :) | 14:53 |
| markmc | just if you're arguing against those claims .... :) | 14:53 |
| ttx | markmc: yeah, it's strong design decisions they want | 14:53 |
| ttx | markmc: that said when we take them we also piss people off | 14:54 |
| markmc | ttx, yeah, that's why I tend to shrug at this kind of stuff - listen, but *shrug* | 14:54 |
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| markmc | ttx, more interested in improving our model than debating why another model is better/worse/analogous | 14:55 |
| ttx | markmc: I suspect that sort of strong decision goes better when it appears to be from some opiniated dude, rather than a consensus amongst level-headed people | 14:55 |
| ttx | markmc: because in the former there is little you can do | 14:55 |
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| mordred | well, people should look at decisions made by linus or sabdfl guido | 14:56 |
| ttx | while in the latter it looks like you could argue the set of people was wrong | 14:56 |
| mordred | and then re-think whether they think somethign can be done about devisions made by bdfl | 14:56 |
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| mordred | I think also they think that some of our decisions are lack of decision, rather than explicit decisions to allow multiple viewpoints | 14:57 |
| markmc | it's rare to find someone sufficiently opinionated to be a bdfl who also understands how to foster a community | 14:57 |
| fungi | openstack development is an emergent property of free software developers confronted with common/related challenges | 14:58 |
| ttx | anyway, "bdfl" was a great newspeak find. Replace it with plan "dictator" and you start seeing the drawbacks | 14:59 |
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| ttx | plain* | 14:59 |
| mordred | ttx: yah | 14:59 |
| mordred | ttx: now _that_ is a good tweet | 15:00 |
| ttx | you can be lucky (Linux, Guido) or unlucky (fill your favorite fail here) | 15:00 |
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| mordred | even with guido - his insistence in not allowing the stackless patch | 15:00 |
| mordred | is what has us stuck with eventlet right now | 15:01 |
| ttx | mordred: true. It's really HARD to stay sufficiently on top of things to still embody the will of the other contributors | 15:01 |
| mordred | yah | 15:02 |
| mordred | jeblair: https://review.openstack.org/58305 and https://review.openstack.org/58306 | 15:02 |
| ttx | Most of those dictators slightly fade from view and then you start having a problem | 15:02 |
| ttx | (gentoo anyone) | 15:02 |
| ttx | BDFL are anomalies, historical artifacts. Not something you should plan to have in when building a new system | 15:03 |
| ttx | basically, if you're asking yourself the question 'do we need one?', it's probably too late to have one anyway | 15:04 |
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| mordred | ++ | 15:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Use requirements project list for mirror selection https://review.openstack.org/58153 | 15:21 |
| openstackgerrit | David Peraza proposed a change to openstack/requirements: Adding sqlalchemy db2 dialect dependencies https://review.openstack.org/48745 | 15:21 |
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| mordred | you know that they're LESS likely to have merge conflicts if they work syncrhonously right? | 15:23 |
| mordred | fungi: ^^ (that was me responding to a long time ago) | 15:23 |
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| fungi | mordred: yeah, i know. they seem to want to take a snapshot of the material, iterate on it within their group over the course of a week or two, then dump it back to us once they're happy with it. not particularly compatible with how we work | 15:25 |
| mordred | fungi: what do they expect our material to do in the meantime? | 15:26 |
| fungi | mordred: i think they are used to getting work in its near-finalized state from the author, ready for editing prior to mass publication | 15:27 |
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| mordred | so, it sounds similar to how we do stable branches | 15:29 |
| mordred | like, cut stable branch, then a new/smaller set of people get +2 | 15:29 |
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| fungi | right, except given that their edits are going to be, for the most par, corrections... we'd like to be able to capture those corrections and feed them back into the development version | 15:31 |
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| fungi | so there'd still be cherry-picking of that back into master | 15:31 |
| fungi | so maybe more akin to a feature branch than a stable branch | 15:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Readd object-storage-manual for Grizzly https://review.openstack.org/58313 | 15:47 |
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| ttx | here we go again: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Naming | 15:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Tweak formatting for hacking. https://review.openstack.org/58181 | 15:51 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Cookiecutterify reviewstats. https://review.openstack.org/58182 | 15:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Ignore E126. https://review.openstack.org/58183 | 15:52 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move tests into the setuptools structure. https://review.openstack.org/58201 | 15:52 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move utils into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58204 | 15:53 |
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| mordred | ttx: I vote for jekyll - mainly because jekyll island is pretty awesome | 15:57 |
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| mordred | (I've been there many times - my cousin lives in brunswick and got married on jekyll) | 15:57 |
| ttx | Yeah, jekyll is a strong contender for so many reasons | 15:57 |
| mordred | ttx: you know, we could do the k vote too | 15:57 |
| ttx | looks cool, sounds cool, is cool and has a personality disorder | 15:57 |
| ttx | If nto Jekyll, I would pick "Jersey" | 15:58 |
| mordred | yup | 15:58 |
| mordred | yah - but that would be the second name tat sounded like a name of another famous place | 15:58 |
| mordred | which maybe is fun | 15:59 |
| ttx | I kinda like to be confusing | 15:59 |
| ttx | For K we could pick Kourou, which is a French city but in South America. Which is confusing too. | 15:59 |
| ttx | Also home to the European Space Center where they launch Arianes and Soyuzes | 15:59 |
| mordred | ttx: we could also go with Julep - which is a name of a popular alcoholic drink in Georgia | 15:59 |
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| ttx | then we should be out of the poor zone, until we hit W/X/Y/Z | 16:00 |
| mordred | ttx: also I got the suggestion that we go with "junior" to pay homage to Martin Luther King Junior | 16:01 |
| ttx | I still want us to stick with the rules, so unless Julep or Junior is on the state flag, no. | 16:01 |
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| ttx | without rules, naming is not fun | 16:01 |
| mordred | heh | 16:01 |
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| mordred | ttx: there is a "John F Kennedy Middle School" in atlanta. that's a place ... could we call the release "John F Kennedy" ? | 16:03 |
| * mordred ducks | 16:03 | |
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| mordred | we could also pick juniper for juniper street - and wait to see how the juniper networks guys react :) | 16:04 |
| mordred | I feel like we kinda have to see what markmcclain thinks too | 16:05 |
| ttx | markmcclain, I think was a pretty strong Jekyll fan | 16:05 |
| markmcclain | I live a block from Juniper | 16:06 |
| ttx | yes, but no. | 16:06 |
| markmcclain | would be fun to see the lawyer response to that one | 16:06 |
| ttx | If I didn't know the answer I could probably find it funny too | 16:06 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: the MLK Jr Blvd … so wouldn't junior be allowed? | 16:07 |
| ttx | markmcclain: we use street names ONLY if there aren't any suitable city/county names. | 16:07 |
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| mordred | well then, I think jekyll is the best currently posed choice | 16:08 |
| markmcclain | Jasper was my 2nd option | 16:08 |
| mordred | yeah. I could go with jasper | 16:08 |
| ttx | although jaspersoft would become a concern | 16:09 |
| mordred | fuckem | 16:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed a change to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: added bug #1210483 detection https://review.openstack.org/58322 | 16:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1210483 in nova "ServerAddressesTestXML.test_list_server_addresses FAIL" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210483 | 16:10 |
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| mordred | sdague: have we seen this one much: | 16:11 |
| mordred | SSHTimeout: Connection to the 172.24.4.231 via SSH timed out. | 16:11 |
| mordred | User: cirros, Password: None | 16:11 |
| sdague | do you have a more specific instance of the fail? | 16:11 |
| mordred | http://logs.openstack.org/04/58104/3/check/check-tempest-devstack-vm-postgres-full/d045ed3/testr_results.html.gz | 16:11 |
| markmcclain | I noticed that popped up on a translation patch | 16:11 |
| mordred | popped up on a pbr patch | 16:11 |
| sdague | mordred: so we just pushed a change that turned back on the ssh enabled flag for devstack/tempest | 16:12 |
| mordred | sdague: AWESOME | 16:12 |
| mordred | I thnk that's super important | 16:12 |
| mordred | so I'm guessing we might find a few more races | 16:12 |
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| sdague | mordred: ok, but it would be good to figure out if that issue is seen pre this morning in any quantity | 16:13 |
| mordred | well, it's not possible for it to have been is it? if that's a ssh-to-image issue | 16:13 |
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| luisg | i have several patches Approved, gate started nov 20, but they are still not merged, they have been like that for a while, is there anything i need to do to get them merged? | 16:13 |
| luisg | e.g. https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bug/1243301,n,z | 16:13 |
| mordred | sdague: logstash only shows one entry for SSHTimeout | 16:14 |
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| sdague | mordred: you set the time slider right? | 16:15 |
| sdague | it defaults to 15 mins | 16:15 |
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| markmcclain | showing 14 for last 7d | 16:16 |
| sdague | ok, let's get a bug registered, and an er fingerprint | 16:17 |
| sdague | my goal is 90% coverage in er of all resets | 16:17 |
| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Basic usage instructions. https://review.openstack.org/58205 | 16:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move reviews_for_bugs into reviewstats. https://review.openstack.org/58207 | 16:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move openapproved into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58206 | 16:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move openreviews into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58208 | 16:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed a change to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move reviewers.py into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58209 | 16:18 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Basic usage instructions. https://review.openstack.org/58205 | 16:18 |
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| pabelanger | Q: What is the preferred way to ignore a directory in .gitignore, if the directory is foo. I remember hearing .foo/* in the past, however an open review has other opinions about it | 16:21 |
| sdague | is er bot CD? | 16:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: added bug #1210483 detection https://review.openstack.org/58322 | 16:24 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1210483 in nova "ServerAddressesTestXML.test_list_server_addresses FAIL" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210483 | 16:24 |
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| fungi | luisg: we had to drop the gate queue on the 20th to deal with a bunch of nondeterministic errors in various parts of openstack which were gumming up the works. it's safe to just leave a review comment on each of those which says only "reverify no bug" and they should get added back into the gate immediately | 16:25 |
| fungi | sdague: i believe so, except that it may not restart automatically on code changes only config changes | 16:26 |
| fungi | pabelanger: foo/ | 16:28 |
| fungi | pabelanger: er, no. foo (without the /) should be enough | 16:29 |
| fungi | though apparently both forms work as of 1.5.5 | 16:29 |
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| pabelanger | fungi, I remember the thinking for foo/* was to indicate a directory to the developer, vs foo directly | 16:33 |
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| luisg | fungi, i see thank you | 16:34 |
| openstackgerrit | Paul Belanger proposed a change to openstack-infra/zuul: Ignore .venv directory https://review.openstack.org/58080 | 16:34 |
| fungi | pabelanger: foo/* will only ignore the contents of foo but will not ignore foo itself, i believe | 16:34 |
| pabelanger | fungi, right, but I don't think git will allow you to add an empty directory | 16:35 |
| pabelanger | I've updated my review for .foo however, thanks for the feedback :) | 16:35 |
| fungi | good point! | 16:35 |
| fungi | i think any of them is probably acceptable, personally | 16:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Paul Belanger proposed a change to openstack-infra/zuul: Fix H hacking violations https://review.openstack.org/58079 | 16:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Paul Belanger proposed a change to openstack-dev/cookiecutter: Remove install_venv_common module https://review.openstack.org/58334 | 16:47 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: I don't want to enforce hacking on infra projects. | 16:47 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair, Oh, I did not know that | 16:47 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: yeah, sorry. at the summit we decided that we need to put comments in all of the tox.ini files saying if we are ignoring something on purpose, or because we just haven't gotten around to cleaning it. | 16:48 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: had we done so, i suppose the 'H' ignore should be commented thusly. | 16:48 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair, fair enough. Was about to cookiecutterify zuul, should I bother? | 16:49 |
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| zul | im seeing some pbr weirdness http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6474561/ | 16:49 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: anyway, i think the change itself looks fine, except for the ignore line in tox.ini; i'll leave a comment to that effect | 16:49 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: what does it mean to cookiecutterify something? | 16:49 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair, formatting of zuul based on what openstack-dev/cookiecutter generates. Again, an attempt to clean it up per other openstack project. But if you don't see the value, I'll move on | 16:51 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: what kind of formatting? i thought cookiecutter just generated some stub files. | 16:51 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, Right, stub files, documentation, more dependency on oslo-incubator.git. | 16:52 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: i'm having a hard time imagining how depending on oslo-incubator would be beneficial for us, or what kinds of stub files or documentation zuul is lacking; i'd suggest... | 16:54 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: if you want to look into that, please do so with a critical eye. i would not assume that everything it does is appropriate. i'm particularly skeptical that tying to oslo-inc would be productive | 16:55 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair, that is fine. Like I said, I see some other -infra projects doing clean up recently (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58182/) figured I do the same to zuul. | 16:56 |
| pabelanger | If there is no value, then no need to do it. | 16:56 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: i haven't looked at cookiecutter output recently, so i can't fully evaluate the value; but i will say that reviewstats is a newish project with very little infrastructure and docs, which isn't the case for zuul and jjb. nodepool might benefit. | 16:59 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, okay, maybe what I'll do is bring it up in the next -infra meetings. Basically, looking to get more involved here and was just working on low hanging fruit. | 17:00 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: thank you. i'm almost certain nodepool could benefit from cookiecutter. | 17:02 |
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| mordred | sdague: oops. nope. I did not timeslider it :) | 17:02 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: also, i can't overstate the value of your puppet reviews. :) | 17:03 |
| ArxCruz | jeblair: hey, can you take a look at this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54196/ | 17:03 |
| jeblair | ArxCruz: i think i can't honor requests to look at reviews now | 17:03 |
| jeblair | unless it's an emergency | 17:03 |
| ArxCruz | jeblair: oh :( | 17:03 |
| jeblair | i have a huge backlog, and i think part of it is because people treat reviews like a stack, and not a queue | 17:04 |
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| ArxCruz | jeblair: sorry :-# | 17:04 |
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| mordred | pabelanger: puppet reviews ++ | 17:05 |
| * pabelanger nods | 17:05 | |
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| jeblair | annegentle, ttx: why is there a 'nearly/havana' branch of openstack-manuals? | 17:13 |
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| clarkb | morning | 17:16 |
| jeblair | pleia2: regarding https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54386/1 did you test that devstack worked after preparing a centos node with that change? | 17:17 |
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| mordred | oh wow | 17:20 |
| mordred | my pbr change got results from redhatci | 17:20 |
| mordred | dprince: do you know those guys ^^ ? | 17:21 |
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| dprince | dprince: Yes. I think its Ian. | 17:21 |
| mordred | neat | 17:22 |
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| mordred | dprince: well, I think it's awesome - and would be awesomer if the log links were served in such a way that I didn't have to download them :) | 17:22 |
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| zaro | clarkb: just read your post-mortem. that was really good. | 17:23 |
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| clarkb | mordred: we are not universal py2 and py3 fwiw (we skip several releases in the middle) | 17:24 |
| dprince | mordred: I passed along the info. Not sure Ian is online right now... | 17:24 |
| clarkb | fungi: sdague: er is CD for both config and code | 17:24 |
| clarkb | zaro: jog0 did the hard work of making it readable. | 17:25 |
| fungi | clarkb: it successfully restarts on updates of either now? | 17:25 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes (config changes don't need a restart but code updates will trigger a service restart) | 17:25 |
| clarkb | mordred: why aren't we talking about 'Jenkins' more seriously :) | 17:26 |
| fungi | jeblair: the nearly/havana branch was being used by the docs team just prior to release to exercise documentation macros which extracted the release name from the branch (they didn't want an early stable/havana branch for fear of confusion), if memory serves. i noticed it again when i was deleting the stable/folsom branches but didn't delete it because i wanted to confirm with annegentle that she no | 17:28 |
| fungi | longer needs it | 17:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Peter Liljenberg proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Added support for Jenkins plugin Blame upstream committers https://review.openstack.org/58341 | 17:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Arx Cruz proposed a change to openstack-infra/devstack-gate: Fedora/RHEL DB updates for devstack_gate.sh https://review.openstack.org/55827 | 17:30 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: dprince change at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54779/ touches devstack jobs | 17:32 |
| zaro | clarkb: dcramer_ says he's ready for us to clone maven clouddocs plugin. you want to do that? | 17:32 |
| mordred | clarkb: I think I'm fine with the level of universalness that we are - but I'm also fine backing off of that and just never doing them | 17:32 |
| clarkb | jeblair: looking, thanks | 17:32 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/config: remove code duplication in run-*.sh https://review.openstack.org/54646 | 17:32 |
| clarkb | mordred: it may not be worth worrying about considernig the install bases of 3.1 and 3.2 | 17:33 |
| mordred | clarkb: that's kinda what I was thinking about | 17:33 |
| clarkb | zaro: I probably won't get to that today, but can probably poke at it later this week | 17:33 |
| mordred | clarkb: a single universal wheel for 3.1 and 3.2 won't be any worse than a source tar.gz :) | 17:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | Peter Liljenberg proposed a change to openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Cleaned up fixtures. Removing vim editor settings https://review.openstack.org/58342 | 17:33 |
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| zaro | clarkb: ok, no hurry. if someone else can do that would work as well. | 17:34 |
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| lifeless | russellb: thanks for fixing up the usage docs | 17:35 |
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| clarkb | zaro: maybe bring it up in tomorrow's meeting if it hasn't been done yet. I really need to finish the d-g job refactor so that jeblair doesn't need to -1 all of those patches :) | 17:35 |
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| mordred | clarkb, zaro: what's the task? | 17:36 |
| lifeless | russellb: though, since the way most folk will run it is the shell scripts, I'm not sure we shouldn't document the variable ;) | 17:37 |
| russellb | lifeless: np, was going to work through the rest of them today too | 17:37 |
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| russellb | lifeless: i figured i was the only one using the shell scripts | 17:37 |
| russellb | and everyone else runs them one-off to check in on their project of choice | 17:38 |
| lifeless | russellb: I have no idea :) | 17:38 |
| lifeless | russellb: anyhow | 17:38 |
| clarkb | mordred: updating clouddocs maven plugin in gerrit | 17:38 |
| russellb | actually, i think most people look at the already generated stuff and don't bother | 17:38 |
| russellb | but yes, thanks a bunch for this patch series, great stuff. | 17:38 |
| mordred | clarkb: as in, clone locally, force push to gerrit? | 17:38 |
| clarkb | mordred: and coordinating the actual stoppage of work in github | 17:38 |
| clarkb | mordred: yes, btu I think we will also need to do a reasonable job of firing off emails to the docs list and asking david to make the github repo read only otehrwise what happened before will happen again | 17:39 |
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| mordred | zaro: if dcramer is ready to stop work in github, I can do the clone/force-push | 17:39 |
| lifeless | russellb: I'm thinking of rearranging the internals to suck down all the changes and then filter locally - build all the reports in parallel. | 17:39 |
| lifeless | russellb: I wanted a stable base to do that on, which is what led me to the series :) | 17:39 |
| lifeless | russellb: what do you think ? | 17:39 |
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| russellb | yeah makes sense. there's already some code that caches the entire history on disk | 17:40 |
| russellb | but not used for everything | 17:40 |
| russellb | and i also wonder if we could just request all updates since what we have locally ... haven't looked at that yet | 17:41 |
| russellb | downloading all of nova for example takes a while ... | 17:41 |
| lifeless | right | 17:41 |
| lifeless | so where I'm really going with this | 17:41 |
| lifeless | is that to do the bug stats I want | 17:41 |
| russellb | -rw-rw-r--. 1 rbryant rbryant 50M Nov 21 17:11 .nova-changes.pickle | 17:42 |
| lifeless | I either need to implement more of my long pending causes project (fun, but incidental), or I need something to pull down a significant chunk of LP bugs | 17:42 |
| lifeless | and since there is some bug stats in here already | 17:42 |
| lifeless | ... | 17:42 |
| mordred | zaro: if you can coordinate with the dcramer for the work stoppage on github, I;m prepared to do the push whenever | 17:42 |
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| zaro | mordred: dcramer's email: http://paste.openstack.org/show/53931/ | 17:49 |
| mordred | zaro: ok. I'm going to force-push up | 17:51 |
| mordred | zaro: remind him that it'll be stackforge/clouddocs-maven-plugin - not openstack/ | 17:51 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Document what it takes to be a check/gate test. https://review.openstack.org/55761 | 17:51 |
| clarkb | jeblair: fungi: mordred: so the current problem with the d-g job reorg is figuring out how to collapse the check jobs for stable branches into the templates for the normal jobs. The check jobs for stable branches override ZUUL_BRANCH | 17:51 |
| zaro | mordred: yup. already did that. thanks.. | 17:51 |
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| fungi | just a heads up, i've -2'd https://review.openstack.org/48226 for now, until bug 1228977 is addressed | 17:51 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1228977 in nova "n-cpu seems to crash when running with libvirt 1.0.6 from ubuntu cloud archive" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228977 | 17:51 |
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| jeblair | fungi: thank you | 17:52 |
| fungi | it had a pair of +2s, so i wanted to make sure it doesn't inadvertently get merged | 17:52 |
| lifeless | russellb: oh, I also registered reviewstats on pypi and added full check gate and release jobs to -config | 17:52 |
| clarkb | jeblair: fungi: mordred: we could continue to treat those jobs as different, or I could add logic to the shell bits run by d-g jobs that checked flags set by JJB | 17:52 |
| clarkb | I don't really care for either option and am open to other suggestions if folks have them | 17:53 |
| lifeless | russellb: (and added openstackci as owner, of course) | 17:53 |
| fungi | clarkb: i'm not coming up with any cleaner alternatives at the moment, but will admit i haven't considered it a ton yet. i'll ponder | 17:53 |
| mordred | zaro: done | 17:53 |
| mordred | zaro: https://review.openstack.org/58347 is the review to add .gitreview | 17:53 |
| jeblair | clarkb: jjb setting ZUUL_BRANCH is just convenience; if you want to change it to something more semantic, i think that would be fine. | 17:53 |
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| russellb | lifeless: aewsome | 17:54 |
| russellb | it's growing up to a real project, *tear* | 17:54 |
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| jeblair | mordred: did you get fake testing on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55844/4 working? | 17:56 |
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| zaro | mordred: i created a patch before the re-clone, do you think it will work? or do i need to abandon and create new one? | 17:57 |
| zaro | mordred: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46103 | 17:57 |
| jeblair | zaro: you can hit the 'rebase' button and find out | 17:57 |
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| zaro | ahh, it failed. i will do the manual rebase. | 17:58 |
| clarkb | jeblair: fungi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/53933/ is what I am currently looking at | 17:58 |
| mordred | russellb: god. next thing you know I'll actually get around to running it in infra for you ... | 17:58 |
| russellb | that would rock | 17:58 |
| clarkb | jeblair: fungi: set the JJB var to 'default' to get normal behavior or change it to an actual branch name if you want to override the zuul branch | 17:58 |
| russellb | i know i could set that up too .... i just haven't | 17:58 |
| russellb | hard to get motivated when it's working for now | 17:58 |
| mordred | jeblair: no. when you have time, I'd love to take a few minutes with you to figure that out and understand why what I was doing wasn't working | 17:59 |
| mordred | jeblair: the code for doing it looked very straightforward | 17:59 |
| mordred | so I was sad when it did not do the thing I expected it to do | 17:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: ok. let's check that out after the call, which is about to start | 17:59 |
| mordred | jeblair: I'm so excited about this call, I think I'm going to poo | 17:59 |
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| jeblair | it sounds like the asterisk lady! | 18:01 |
| fungi | yup | 18:01 |
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| harlowja | anyone mind giving a 'approve' to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56927/ :) | 18:06 |
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| openstackgerrit | Khai Do proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: new maven plugin jobs to build and deploy maven plugins to maven nexus https://review.openstack.org/46099 | 18:15 |
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| ArxCruz | dprince: around ? | 18:17 |
| ArxCruz | dprince: can you take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54386/ jeblair is waiting a response from you :) | 18:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Khai Do proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: new maven plugin jobs to build and deploy maven plugins to maven nexus https://review.openstack.org/46099 | 18:18 |
| jeblair | ArxCruz: or anyone who wants to volunteer to spin up a precise node and test :) | 18:18 |
| blamar | anyone know how much RAM a machine has to have to run Neutron tests? I just had tests chew through 2GB of RAM and 2GB of swap to run out of memory... | 18:19 |
| ArxCruz | jeblair: my tests are on power, I only have fedora 19 | 18:19 |
| ArxCruz | jeblair: besides, if https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54386/ is approved, I can remove both yum and apt-get for that patch and it will work :) | 18:19 |
| clarkb | blamar: I think the answer is lots, and unfortunately it has been that way for a long time. Our test slaves have 8GB (they are that large so that we can have 4 cpu per slave not because we thinkit should take that much memory to run unittests) | 18:20 |
| clarkb | blamar: we might want to look at stronger memory constraint enforcements with cgroups | 18:20 |
| clarkb | we currently keep tests to a hard limit of 95% of RAM to help protect slaves from unfortunate OOMing | 18:20 |
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| dprince | ArxCruz: Um. Okay. I didn't realize that was specifically to me. I suppose I *could* do it, but I don't have a precise node handy (nor do I usually ever) | 18:21 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: re:54386 I'll give centos a spin in devstack specifically (figured it was essentially the same command as in ubuntu so only tested the command on an fresh centos hpcloud instance, not w/ devstack specifically) | 18:22 |
| ArxCruz | dprince: jeblair sorry, my mistake it's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53432/ | 18:22 |
| blamar | clarkb: thanks for the info -- was really hoping to get by with 2GB slaves but I guess I'm just kidding myself | 18:22 |
| ArxCruz | dprince: lot of ctrl+c ctrl+v here :) | 18:22 |
| ArxCruz | dprince: I need to leave now, I will be back in a few hours, I would appreciate if you take a look in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53432/ | 18:24 |
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| annegentle | OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE? :) | 18:31 |
| annegentle | Just kidding | 18:31 |
| zaro | any core infra available to help with this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/46099 | 18:32 |
| zaro | we need to deploy to maven nexus, so will need an account for that. | 18:33 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/config: Remove extra chars in launchpad bug links https://review.openstack.org/55666 | 18:33 |
| annegentle | jeblair: so merging in the whole branch sounds like an okay solution but a bit of a leap of faith "we'll get what we get" I guess | 18:33 |
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| jeblair | annegentle: either it will just work, or it will be a big mess you have to clean up, or something in the middle.. but... | 18:33 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah. :) | 18:34 |
| annegentle | jeblair: worth trying though? and but what? :) | 18:34 |
| mordred | zaro: so thigns needed are: a) infra-core to make a maven nexus account and put the info into heira | 18:34 |
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| mordred | zaro: then landing that change, yeah? | 18:34 |
| jeblair | annegentle: if they keep their branch up to date as they work, you can continually try to merge it into master | 18:34 |
| zaro | mordred: yup. | 18:34 |
| mordred | zaro: how urgent is that? we've got a little bit of time, yeah? | 18:34 |
| annegentle | jeblair: that's what I hope, they sound amenable to that | 18:34 |
| jeblair | annegentle: and you'll get a handle on how significant a problem it is (and basically have the ability to break any work that there is up into sizable chunks of your own choosing) | 18:35 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yes that is ideal, having the ability to size the merges. YES. | 18:35 |
| zaro | mordred: no hurry. actually i think that patch might need account in heira for it to work? we can deal with account on maven nexus only if we want to release. | 18:36 |
| zaro | mordred: site.pp references hiera accounts that don't exist. not sure if it will fail or just return empty. | 18:37 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/config: Document what it takes to be a check/gate test. https://review.openstack.org/55761 | 18:38 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: is http://paste.openstack.org/show/53933/ what you had in mind for making it more semantic? Now that I have written it out I don't find it too bad | 18:39 |
| jeblair | mordred: provider_manager iterates over a custom dict it makes of the flavors, not the actual flavor objects returned | 18:39 |
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| jeblair | mordred: see _getFlavors() | 18:39 |
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| jeblair | mordred: it was probably to avoid keeping a bunch of novaclient objects around forever; i don't recall if there was a stronger reason for that | 18:40 |
| clarkb | and the periodic jobs can be made to be very similar with a few differences (because they are periodic) | 18:40 |
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| jeblair | mordred: anyway, i think once you see _getFlavors you'll grok it. | 18:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/pbr: Serve local mirror using apache https://review.openstack.org/56752 | 18:42 |
| jog0 | fungi: ping | 18:42 |
| clarkb | jeblair: fungi: if that paste doesn't look too horrible to you guys I will go ahead and do a mass conversion of the jobs, as I think that will get me to where I think the jobs should be | 18:42 |
| jeblair | clarkb: lgtm; is it worth thinking about old and new branch overrides for grenade now, or baby steps? | 18:42 |
| jeblair | clarkb: ++ | 18:42 |
| clarkb | jeblair: baby steps :) | 18:42 |
| jog0 | fungi: for your email about libvirt 0.9.11 | 18:43 |
| jog0 | '. I'm consistently getting | 18:43 |
| jog0 | numerous tempest tests failing with "server in error state" messages | 18:43 |
| jog0 | on the console' | 18:43 |
| jog0 | any more detail on that | 18:43 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I have a hunch the grenade jobs will need to be a third set of thing with a bunch of different considerations, easier to ignore that for now to avoid confusion | 18:43 |
| sdague | how much I want to punch launchpad for timing out every 6th operation | 18:43 |
| fungi | jog0: i pasted the traceback into the bug, but it's trivial to recreate | 18:44 |
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| jog0 | fungi: ahh that log is useless, any nova logs? | 18:45 |
| jog0 | fungi: either way that answers my question. I wasn't sure what you ment about console, I thought that it may be the console log like the *920 bug | 18:45 |
| jog0 | but its not, thanks | 18:45 |
| fungi | jog0: i have destroyed the virtual machines on which i ran those tests, but it happened 100% of the time. i just wasn't sure what specifically to collect from them or where to look for the underlying cause | 18:47 |
| jog0 | fungi: no problem, in the future all of nova logs | 18:47 |
| jog0 | is a good place to start | 18:47 |
| jog0 | anyway just wanted to make sure it was an unrelated issue | 18:48 |
| fungi | jog0: i was mainly just trying to confirm whether or not we can turn ubuntu cloud archive back on, and it seems we can't. my guess is it's probably something with new python-libvirt (since that was the blocker the last time we tried) but i can't be sure | 18:48 |
| pete5 | I had a gate test fail because of a timeout creating an instance. The instance was successfully created, but it took 1 minute longer than tempest was willing to wait. Can I do a "reverify no bug" for this, or should I file a tempest bug saying that the timeout is too short? Here's the failure: http://logs.openstack.org/91/56691/1/gate/gate-tempest-devstack-vm-neutron-large-ops/06b9565/console.html#_2013-11-25_15_39_17_223 and here's the log showing th | 18:48 |
| pete5 | it was ready 1 minute later: http://logs.openstack.org/91/56691/1/gate/gate-tempest-devstack-vm-neutron-large-ops/06b9565/logs/screen-n-cond.txt.gz#_2013-11-25_15_34_19_429. | 18:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed a change to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: add fingerprint for bug #1250168 https://review.openstack.org/58353 | 18:49 |
| jog0 | pete5: neutron-large-ops isn't voting yet | 18:49 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1250168 in neutron "gate-tempest-devstack-vm-neutron-large-ops is failing" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250168 | 18:49 |
| fungi | ha | 18:49 |
| fungi | that was a funny coincidence | 18:49 |
| pete5 | jog0: that's what i thought, but gerrit says otherwise: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56691/ | 18:49 |
| jog0 | jeblair: can you take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58019/' | 18:49 |
| jog0 | pete5: AFAIK that is a bug | 18:50 |
| jog0 | unless we made large-ops gating recently | 18:50 |
| jog0 | neturon lagre ops | 18:50 |
| fungi | jog0: it is voting as of friday i think (it was passing consistently, so i approved the change) | 18:50 |
| jog0 | fungi: oh cool, works for me | 18:50 |
| jog0 | didn't know thats all | 18:50 |
| jeblair | jog0: i'm only taking emergency requests to look at reviews out of order, sorry | 18:50 |
| jog0 | jeblair: ack, this is not an emergency so never mind | 18:51 |
| jeblair | jog0: though you may be interested in the one i'm looking at right now: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56173/1 references bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1243251 | 18:51 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1243251 in ceilometer "QueuePool ERROR in ceilometer-collector log after successful tempest run" [Critical,In progress] | 18:51 |
| jog0 | (it does need a review from you because the graphite js lib -- but not an emergency) | 18:52 |
| jog0 | pete5: so looks like sdague just filed a bug | 18:52 |
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| jog0 | but *don't* do reverify no bug | 18:52 |
| fungi | jog0: yeah, that was the amusing coincidence i was referencing (gerritbot announced it just as you said it was probably a valid bug) | 18:53 |
| reed | Ryan_Lane, can you give me more details about the installation of Translatewiki on our wiki? | 18:53 |
| sdague | jog0: it's your bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1250168 | 18:53 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1250168 in neutron "gate-tempest-devstack-vm-neutron-large-ops is failing" [Critical,Confirmed] | 18:53 |
| Ryan_Lane | let me make sure it's actually active :) | 18:53 |
| reed | Ryan_Lane, cool, let me know... It would be good to follow up on the i18n mailing list with it | 18:54 |
| sdague | there is apparently debate on it though, but until someone points me at a better bug, that's the one I'm going with | 18:54 |
| Ryan_Lane | yeah, it's active | 18:54 |
| jog0 | sdague: that bug is apretty generic catch all bug | 18:54 |
| Ryan_Lane | reed: here's the details: http://pastebin.com/Pv6tknfA | 18:55 |
| jog0 | but yeah | 18:55 |
| sdague | jog0: sure, but it seems to be the only one that's being worked | 18:55 |
| reed | Ryan_Lane, how do I learn how to translate pages? | 18:55 |
| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed a change to openstack-infra/nodepool: Fix old pre-nodepoold reference in README https://review.openstack.org/58355 | 18:55 |
| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed a change to openstack-infra/nodepool: Add ability to filter on flavor name https://review.openstack.org/55844 | 18:55 |
| mordred | jeblair: makes sense - I think the patch above now addresses that | 18:55 |
| mordred | jeblair: and I _think_ I have appropriately tested that it works | 18:55 |
| mordred | jeblair: although I would love validation of that | 18:56 |
| jog0 | sdague: yeah I agree, sounds like a reasonable bug to fingerprint on | 18:56 |
| jog0 | until we get more insight | 18:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | reed: I'm asking the translatewiki folks if they can give you a quick tutorial | 18:57 |
| reed | Ryan_Lane, cool, thanks | 18:57 |
| reed | if they have a wiki channel I can join it | 18:57 |
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| pete5 | jog0: thanks! | 18:57 |
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| jog0 | pete5: the main behavior we want to avoid, is oh gate failed, let me just reverify without seeing if the bug is my fault or not | 18:58 |
| jeblair | mordred: i just reviewed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56260/5 you may want to WIP or -2 it or something if you don't want it merged. | 18:59 |
| pete5 | jog0: I 100% agree with that! So I spent about 15 minutes looking through the logs before messaging you guys :-) | 18:59 |
| jog0 | pete5: :) | 18:59 |
| sdague | jog0: we need to come up with a shorter name for gate-tempest-devstack-vm-neutron-large-ops | 19:01 |
| sdague | because it's breaking the zuul ui | 19:01 |
| jog0 | sdague: heh, gtdvnlo | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i'd suggest dropping 'devstack-vm' but we're on the verge of finally being able to test something not in a devstack-vm. but nonetheless, maybe we can make that shorter, with just 'ds' or something. | 19:02 |
| jeblair | also, 'lops' sounds fun. | 19:03 |
| clarkb | ~> | 19:03 |
| clarkb | jeblair: sdague: my d-g refactor is making the names even longer >_> but we can sort that out once we have agreement on the technical bits | 19:04 |
| jeblair | annegentle: are you still using 'nearly/havana'? | 19:06 |
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| fungi | jeblair: clarkb: mordred: it looks like we've somehow split nova, ceilometerclient and swift into a separate queue from the main integrated one. did we mess up on job renames? | 19:09 |
| mordred | fungi: that does not seem like a good thing | 19:10 |
| fungi | or forget to add some jobs to the fake z/tempest project maybe? | 19:10 |
| fungi | i'm starting to look, but more eyes would help | 19:10 |
| mordred | the jobs look right to me? | 19:11 |
| sdague | so I have a style work around that will at least make it less confusing, still not the prettiest, let me push | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | fungi: 'gate-tempest-devstack-vm-full' should cause them to be together... | 19:12 |
| jeblair | fungi: (i say that to indicate this is more likely to be a bug than a config file error) | 19:13 |
| fungi | jeblair: agreed. so something going on zuul-side seems more likely | 19:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: create a jobwrapper span to address long job names spillover https://review.openstack.org/58360 | 19:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | Joe Gordon proposed a change to openstack/requirements: Unpin keyring, just skip keyring 2.0 https://review.openstack.org/58362 | 19:18 |
| sdague | fyi - http://ubuntuone.com/5e30HfKsS1LwyMj9n9BNnh the top item is what it looks like after the wrap class in my above patch is added, the one below it is how it looks now | 19:19 |
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| fungi | looks like zuul last reloaded its config about 5 hours ago (14:38:50z) | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | i'm debugging locally | 19:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Prince proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Update devstack-cache.py to install RPMs. https://review.openstack.org/54777 | 19:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Dan Prince proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Add Fedora 19 to the nodepool (devstack-f19-check) https://review.openstack.org/54778 | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i can't reproduce locally :( | 19:24 |
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| fungi | i'm not seeing anything in the logs which jumps out at me | 19:24 |
| jeblair | fungi: i'm going to send it the reload signal and let's see if it behaves differently | 19:24 |
| fungi | k | 19:25 |
| jeblair | fungi: it merged them | 19:26 |
| mordred | jeblair: _excellent_ | 19:26 |
| mordred | jeblair: I think we should blame the GIL | 19:26 |
| jeblair | mordred: better than any idea i can come up with | 19:27 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | fungi: looking at the logs under "Shared change queues:" the result it came up with this time looks sane | 19:30 |
| fungi | jeblair: it definitely screwed it up on the previous reload, though i'm not (yet) finding why... http://paste.openstack.org/show/53938/ | 19:30 |
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| sdague | mordred: did you register a bug for the SSH fail? | 19:31 |
| * sdague realizes today is just - categorize all the uncategorized gate fails he sees | 19:31 | |
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| jeblair | fungi: i wonder if loading n-1 layout and then n would exhibit it again. that's a hard test to run. | 19:32 |
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| sdague | mordred: also, you problem only showed up in neutron job, right? | 19:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move openapproved into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58206 | 19:34 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move reviews_for_bugs into reviewstats. https://review.openstack.org/58207 | 19:34 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move openreviews into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58208 | 19:34 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/reviewstats: Move reviewers.py into the reviewstats namespace. https://review.openstack.org/58209 | 19:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/config: Pass $mysql_password through to gerrit class https://review.openstack.org/56306 | 19:36 |
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| fungi | jeblair: yeah, it was the merging of https://review.openstack.org/58187 which triggered that reload... changed a job match from a regex to a literal string, but that's about the only thing there which strikes me as even remotely extraordinary | 19:36 |
| mordred | sdague: I did not - I got distracted/pulled away | 19:36 |
| mordred | sdague: it was the postgres job iirc | 19:37 |
| sdague | mordred: ok, yeh, that's the 2nd most common job it runs in | 19:38 |
| sdague | http://logstash.openstack.org/#eyJzZWFyY2giOiJtZXNzYWdlOlwidmlhIFNTSCB0aW1lZCBvdXRcIiIsImZpZWxkcyI6W10sIm9mZnNldCI6MCwidGltZWZyYW1lIjoiNjA0ODAwIiwiZ3JhcGhtb2RlIjoiY291bnQiLCJ0aW1lIjp7InVzZXJfaW50ZXJ2YWwiOjB9LCJzdGFtcCI6MTM4NTQwNzMwNjM3MiwibW9kZSI6InRlcm1zIiwiYW5hbHl6ZV9maWVsZCI6ImJ1aWxkX25hbWUifQ== | 19:38 |
| jog0 | sdague: so one of the outcomes of the gate issues was we want qa folks to be able to set any gate bug as critical | 19:40 |
| jog0 | accross all projects | 19:40 |
| jog0 | so what team should have that access, or do we just make all bug triage teams open? | 19:40 |
| sdague | jog0: well we need to change permissions to make that happen | 19:40 |
| jog0 | sdague: right, thats why I am bringing this up in infra | 19:40 |
| sdague | honestly I think all bug triage teams should be open | 19:41 |
| jog0 | sdague: ++ | 19:41 |
| jog0 | fungi clarkb etc ^: thoughts | 19:41 |
| jeblair | i think they should be open too. let's start by just asking the ptls of projects with closed teams. | 19:42 |
| jog0 | cool | 19:42 |
| jog0 | neutron is closed | 19:42 |
| jog0 | and glance too | 19:42 |
| fungi | my thoughts as well | 19:42 |
| jog0 | if my memory serves me correctly | 19:42 |
| sdague | neutron is closed, ttx added me by fiat at some point | 19:42 |
| jeblair | markwash: do you mind if we make the glance bug triage team open like most of the other projects? | 19:42 |
| markwash | probably not? | 19:43 |
| fungi | it's not much of an infra discussion really since this is mainly about setting permissions on lp, but might make a good topic for the project meeting agenda | 19:43 |
| jeblair | markwash: excellent choice. :) | 19:43 |
| jeblair | fungi: lp perms are definitely in-scope for infra | 19:43 |
| fungi | jeblair: well, yes the how-to discussion is. as for the permissions discussion, i think we have a stake in it along with the ptls was my point | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | markwash: ok, done, let me know if it becomes a problem | 19:44 |
| fungi | (whereby i mean the ptls as spokespeople for the projects they represent, but really the projects, or at least the people involved in bug triage for them) | 19:45 |
| markwash | jeblair: cool | 19:45 |
| jeblair | let's remember to ask markmcclain when he's online | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger, mordred: you know we don't have the ability to only run certain jobs post-commit based on file paths, right? so for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56107/1 when a commit lands, we would have to run deb and rpm build jobs. | 19:49 |
| jeblair | pabelanger, mordred: (the jobs could try to figure out if they actually need to do anything, but they'd at least be triggered) | 19:50 |
| jeblair | fungi: okay to approve new projects, or is manage_projects still broke? | 19:50 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, commits are branch specific. Today debian/sid exists, so I _think_ we could build out triggers to be branch aware, some how invoking the project build jobs | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | RPMs would like in fedora/heisenbug as another example | 19:53 |
| fungi | jeblair: i think it was clarkb who expressed concerns last week over approving further project additions. but as far as i know there haven't been any changes to the script that i'm aware of (i expect it still needs refactoring to reduce the number of calls it makes to github) | 19:53 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/git-review: Split git rev-parse --show-toplevel --git-dir on newline https://review.openstack.org/50451 | 19:53 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: oh, BRANCHES, not directories. ok. | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, Ya, figured that was better to manage | 19:54 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: we can definitely have specific jobs per-branch. | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | Yar! | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, I was going to get a thread going on the mailing list on how people see the builds working. I have pbuilder setup for debian / ubuntu builds, however there might be other ways people want it to function | 19:59 |
| clarkb | fungi: jeblair: my concerns are that I have had to fix repos on the zuul side many times now | 19:59 |
| clarkb | I shpould have spent more of that time fixing manage-projects, but making people happy seemed to be the immediate concern | 19:59 |
| jeblair | clarkb: should we suspend creation of new non-openstack projects until that's fixed? | 20:00 |
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| fungi | UtahDave: were you able to find any good examples of setting up chains of dependent actions using reactors? | 20:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Clark Boylan proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Create two classes of d-g jobs. https://review.openstack.org/58370 | 20:01 |
| jog0 | jeblair: not asking for a review, but want to make sure you are aware of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57347/ as I expect you to -1 it | 20:01 |
| clarkb | fungi: jeblair ^ first patchset of the job refactor. I am sure I missed something so please review :) | 20:01 |
| jeblair | jog0: why? | 20:01 |
| clarkb | jeblair: that was the direction I wanted to head. As it will reduce churn | 20:01 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: add fingerprint for bug #1250168 https://review.openstack.org/58353 | 20:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1250168 in neutron "gate-tempest-devstack-vm-neutron-large-ops is failing" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250168 | 20:02 |
| jeblair | clarkb: is there a bug for this? | 20:02 |
| jog0 | jeblair: 'Always run check-tempest-devstack-vm-full twice | 20:02 |
| jog0 | if we don't have enough cloud | 20:02 |
| jeblair | jog0: perhaps mordred should -1 it then. :) | 20:03 |
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| jog0 | mordred: ^ do we have enough cloud | 20:03 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think so, let me double check | 20:03 |
| jeblair | mordred, jog0: istr mordred saying "not right now, but after the move to the new region" or something like that. | 20:03 |
| mordred | I don't have a problem with running check-tempest-devstack-vm-full twice now | 20:04 |
| jog0 | mordred: woot | 20:04 |
| jog0 | just wanted to make sure this doesn't break the cloudz | 20:04 |
| clarkb | jeblair: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1242569 though it needs updatnig | 20:04 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1242569 in openstack-ci "No patchset can be merged into any repository" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 20:04 |
| mordred | especially if it helps keep races out - since races cause resets - which are substantially more activity than an extra job | 20:04 |
| jog0 | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57347/ thoughts? | 20:04 |
| jeblair | clarkb: would you mind updating it? if we're going to block new projects, i'd like to have an up to date bug that's set to critical, and i think you're best equipped to write about the problem. | 20:05 |
| jog0 | mordred: thanks | 20:05 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup updating now | 20:06 |
| sdague | mordred: so I'm not sure it's going to help as much as you think | 20:06 |
| jeblair | fungi: what work is being done on it? is salt still the preferred resolution? | 20:06 |
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| sdague | if these are really low percentage bugs (like 1% occurance rate) | 20:07 |
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| sdague | you'd need to run the tests 69 times to let them get through less than 50% of the time | 20:08 |
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| jeblair | mordred: ^ we're heading toward not accepting new non-openstack projects until the multi-system manage_projects races are fixed. | 20:08 |
| fungi | jeblair: it was last it got discussed. i was hoping to get some examples of setting cross-minion dependencies on tasks (which it had been suggested was tricky and not well documented). but the more i think about it, i worry that still leaves us some races unless we get very, very granular about which new repositories are ready for zuul to clone | 20:10 |
| fungi | right now it's configuration wide "there was a change" but we could still easily tell zuul "update, there was a change" and it ends up doing so in the middle of a subsequent manage-projects run for an even newer addition | 20:10 |
| jeblair | fungi: well zuul won't clone a repo until its in its config, so that at least can be solved by requiring two changes | 20:11 |
| fungi | er, i should say "right now the plan is such that" | 20:11 |
| jeblair | fungi: but there's still a gerrit/cgit race, rightL | 20:11 |
| jeblair | ? | 20:11 |
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| fungi | jeblair: agreed | 20:11 |
| fungi | the cgit race is ultimately due to it keying off the same common list of projects which manage-projects looks at | 20:12 |
| jog0 | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/elastic-recheck+branch:master+topic:queries,n,z | 20:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: bug updated | 20:13 |
| fungi | jeblair: but maybe a belt-and-braces check/retry loop in the cgit cloning operation could mitigate that | 20:13 |
| clarkb | the cgit race is not a major problem in practice | 20:13 |
| clarkb | because occurence of it is low enough that we don't see it for every new project | 20:13 |
| clarkb | we are seeing this manage-projects breaking zuul thing for every new project | 20:13 |
| fungi | i hadn't seen the zuul-related race crop up in ages, but i guess that's because clarkb was catching all of them | 20:14 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: Tell people to do a recheck https://review.openstack.org/56118 | 20:14 |
| fungi | i was seeing the cgit race on many (if not most) project additions | 20:14 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: Swap in better query for 1239856 https://review.openstack.org/58024 | 20:14 |
| clarkb | in zuul:/root/broken-repos I have collected the repos that result from this bug | 20:15 |
| clarkb | if you are curious to see what it looks like | 20:15 |
| fungi | it is just a missing head symref? | 20:15 |
| sdague | jog0: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58053/ you totally blew the queries.yaml format :) | 20:15 |
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| clarkb | fungi: it is missing that, but git status shows all files as deleted | 20:16 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think that is because it clones the empty repo so the working dir is empty | 20:16 |
| jog0 | sdague: yeah I haven't gotten around to updating it, good news was unit tests cought it ! | 20:16 |
| clarkb | then zuul does a HEAD=origin/master and all of the files are still deleted | 20:16 |
| clarkb | and zuul can't merge on top of that dirty state | 20:16 |
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| jeblair | i think we need to fix or work around both problems | 20:17 |
| fungi | clarkb: ahh, right. slightly uglier than what happens on the git farm since those are just bare repos instead | 20:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed a change to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: add query for bug #1253896 ssh failure bug https://review.openstack.org/58373 | 20:18 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1253896 in tempest "test_minimum_basic_scenario fails with SSHException: Error reading SSH protocol banner" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253896 | 20:18 |
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| UtahDave | fungi: Sorry, I was at lunch. Just got back. | 20:19 |
| fungi | at this point, any expedient fixes/workarounds are unlikely to come from global dependency-based task orchestration as that's still very much poc | 20:19 |
| fungi | UtahDave: no worries | 20:19 |
| UtahDave | fungi: I need to sanitize an example for you. I'll get that together soon. today | 20:20 |
| fungi | UtahDave: too awesome--thanks! | 20:20 |
| openstackgerrit | Clark Boylan proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Create two classes of d-g jobs. https://review.openstack.org/58370 | 20:24 |
| clarkb | lets see if jenkins is happier with that patchset | 20:24 |
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| dhellmann | hi, folks | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | I have a stackforge & rtfd.org question. I'm working on importing stevedore, and trying to figure out the rtfd-id value for it, but I don't see that in the UI anywhere. Is there an easy way to figure out that number? | 20:26 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: HMMMmmm | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | I own the project, and can look at the admin UI, but I just don't see the # anywhere | 20:27 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: funny I was just going to ask a question about rtfd too | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: ask yours, maybe I can at least help you! :-) | 20:28 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: Add query for bug 1177134 https://review.openstack.org/58014 | 20:28 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1177134 in devstack "[ERROR] /opt/stack/new/devstack/exercises/bundle.sh:61 Image ami-00000001 not available within 15 seconds" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177134 | 20:28 |
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| clarkb | dhellmann: our stackforge docs say you can get the info from your rtfd account | 20:29 |
| clarkb | I haven't ever actually used rtfd, this particular thing was a contribution by another stackforge user | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: yeah, I was hoping for something more specific | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | I'm looking at the pages under my account and the admin ui for the project, and everything seems to use the project name | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: ok, thanks | 20:30 |
| fungi | i may have added the "get that info from your rtfd account" bit because previously the docs didn't say anything about that value at all | 20:31 |
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| fungi | but like clarkb, i've not used rtfd and have no account there to confirm | 20:31 |
| clarkb | http://read-the-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api.html#method-get-api-v1-project-id- | 20:32 |
| clarkb | so project IDs are a thing, now how do we get them | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | http://docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api.html?highlight=project looks promising | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | oh, same page :-) | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | it appears I can use the API with the slug, and the return value includes the id | 20:33 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: we might be able to change the jenkins job to use a slug instead of an id | 20:34 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: the job hits an api endpoint iirf | 20:34 |
| clarkb | *iirc | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: that's a good idea | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | ok, I have the id value | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: what would we do with existing projects? | 20:35 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: we would need to convert ids to slugs | 20:35 |
| clarkb | and make sure the jenkins job works without the id numbers | 20:35 |
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| dhellmann | clarkb: that job template is a shell call to curl | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | haha, using the slug just works | 20:37 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: clarkb: so I've got an interesting set of questions about incubation and documentation, have a mo? | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: sure | 20:37 |
| clarkb | annegentle: sure | 20:37 |
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| clarkb | dhellmann: cool, in that case I think we should convert the other way and change the variable to be rtfd-project or whatever | 20:38 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: clarkb: so one of the graduation criteria we're discussing is "show you're supporting users through docs and ask.openstack.org" | 20:38 |
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| annegentle | so in the incubation and pre-incubation, would projects point to rtfd.org? | 20:38 |
| annegentle | and would we then redirect to docs.o.org eventually? | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: +1, that seems like a low effort solution to me | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | support is there in the tooling already | 20:39 |
| annegentle | if a project wants to do docs "the OpenStack way" would they be better off building docbook from the start? | 20:39 |
| annegentle | if they want to integrate in our install guide, config guide, admin guide, for example, those are pretty specific | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | for ceilometer, we updated the pre-release version of our docs on rtfd to say "these are old, go look over here" and then left them online with a version number | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ah, good point | 20:39 |
| annegentle | so I hem and haw about actually incubating nicely -- if I were a writer looking to help out a project, how would I view our incubation process for docs? | 20:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed a change to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: add query for bug #1253896 ssh failure bug https://review.openstack.org/58373 | 20:40 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1253896 in tempest "test_minimum_basic_scenario fails with SSHException: Error reading SSH protocol banner" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253896 | 20:40 |
| annegentle | also our info arch is so specific, I worry that docs don't serve projects well (how can we improve?) | 20:40 |
| annegentle | partially I think, well, the internet, that's just how it works, links get redirected | 20:40 |
| annegentle | partially I think, do we do OpenStack operators a disservice though | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | it seems like having some docs is usually better than having none, and so allowing rtfd.org makes sense -- but that's a good question about transitioning | 20:41 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah it's the not-so-smooth transition I worry about | 20:42 |
| clarkb | we could publish to both places | 20:42 |
| clarkb | we have discussed it in the past | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | with ceilometer, I guess that's in process to some degree, but I'm not sure where ceilometer even fits into the existing manuals (I missed any conversations about that at the summit) | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: the issue is the use of different input formats, though | 20:42 |
| annegentle | clarkb: can you publish non-sphinx jobs to rtfd? | 20:42 |
| clarkb | oh I am ignoring the docbook docs because tehy are special | 20:42 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: so we have a chapter to install ceilometer in the install doc | 20:42 |
| clarkb | I am thinking of the in tree docs | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: nice! | 20:43 |
| annegentle | clarkb: right, let's say I have a project that wants to put docbook and wadl in the tree | 20:43 |
| annegentle | clarkb: and, we also have decided that API doc specs will go in the tree | 20:43 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: so I'm trying to better formulate "the OpenStack doc way" | 20:43 |
| clarkb | I would probably argue against putting docbook stuff in the python trees | 20:43 |
| clarkb | because python has a rich set of documentation tools none of which are built around docbook (it is a technical debt dead end) | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: how much of the tool chain for building html from docbook input files depends on the docs repo layout, and how much can it be reused? | 20:44 |
| annegentle | clarkb: please don't :) I've spent a lot of time getting PTLs to agree | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: if I had a second repo with my stuff in it, could I build html? | 20:45 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: the pom.xml contains the build instructions and they'd be reusable | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | the thing that rtfd.org gives us is a tool chain for producing the docs in a consumable format, so we would need to have that | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | cool | 20:45 |
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| clarkb | annegentle: doing that means managing a new set of dependencies... | 20:46 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: it's really also about the domain name, do I need to provide support for say, docs.openstack.org/incubation | 20:46 |
| clarkb | which won't tie into setup.py | 20:46 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: which we've had in the past | 20:46 |
| clarkb | I dunno, it seems very messy | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: that's the next question | 20:46 |
| annegentle | clarkb: ohhh interesting | 20:46 |
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| dhellmann | clarkb: why does the doc build need to tie into setup.py? | 20:46 |
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| dhellmann | at least, why for end-user docs? | 20:46 |
| annegentle | clarkb: oh but we're not going to build these api specs | 20:47 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: because that is how we build docs | 20:47 |
| annegentle | clarkb: they're just there for reference, and for example the Keystone v3 API doesn't build, it just gets "published" with github's renderer | 20:47 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: there has long been an expectation that if you have the source you can run tests and build docs | 20:47 |
| clarkb | and do so with simple tox commands that install all of your dependencies | 20:47 |
| sdague | so if cloud resources are getting strained again, have we thought about bringing back fast fail for requirements and pep8, and kicking those jobs out right away? | 20:47 |
| annegentle | clarkb: so actually, for api specs, no building | 20:47 |
| annegentle | clarkb: but it still does make me think twice about end user docs in repos | 20:47 |
| annegentle | project repos | 20:47 |
| sdague | noticing, for instance - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57715/2 fails on license issue | 20:48 |
| sdague | but it's going to consume a bunch of devstack nodes for a while before that feedback comes back to the author | 20:48 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: the one exception to that is libvirt, which nova works around with a fake libvirt. | 20:49 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: and another doc item you might know, there's still no support that I know of for inclusion in sphinx/rst -- such as, glue together this deliverable with pieces from multiple repos? | 20:49 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: or wouldn't have to be across repos, but across folders in a repo? | 20:49 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/directives.html#including-an-external-document-fragment | 20:50 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: cool, I knew you'd know :) | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: you can also use wildcards in a toctree directive | 20:51 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: that would work nicely for ..include:: json examples | 20:52 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: but wonder if it'd render xml request/responses ok | 20:52 |
| clarkb | fungi: jeblair: mordred: sdague: and others https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58370/ is ready for review. The diff is large but the change isn't too scary | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: http://sphinx-doc.org/markup/code.html#directive-literalinclude | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | or "include" with the "literal" flag set | 20:53 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: you may be interested in that too. I see WSME/pecan overloading the branch-designator variable at some point to easily have differently named tempest jobs | 20:53 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: it isn't 100% of the way there for WSME/pecan but it is very close | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: I will add it to my list of reviews, thanks | 20:54 |
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| clarkb | actually it may just work today | 20:55 |
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| clarkb | after that change merges | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I don't see an easy answer to the doc location question. We either require new projects to learn the docbook tools, or we have to come up with a migration plan for moving from sphinx to docbook after or during incubation. | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I would lean toward coming up with a migration plan, even if that is "you'll have to learn to use docbook to graduate" | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: because, IMO, that's a lower barrier to getting started on a project -- but maybe we can make the docbook tooling easy enough, too? | 20:57 |
| fungi | sdague: i'm getting pretty sure that the check jobs are only contributing a small amount to resource consumption when we get into this state. the bigger issue is that the gate is deep enough that a reset near the head of the shared queue is enough to waste as many devstack nodes as our aggregate quota, so the entire pool is depleted and waiting for more nodes, and it cycles like that for every reset | 20:57 |
| fungi | compounding the delay | 20:57 |
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| sdague | fungi: fair | 20:58 |
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| sdague | the gate was empty when I sent 25 patches into it this morning :) | 20:58 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: honestly, people can write on a napkin :) | 20:58 |
| clarkb | annegentle: dhellmann: we can use markdown with docbook, can we convert rst as well? | 20:58 |
| clarkb | annegentle: or was the markdown experiment a failure? | 20:58 |
| fungi | sdague: so you're saying we can blame you this time? ;) | 20:59 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: clarkb: markdown and rst are not amenable to "chunking" for uniquely identifying "what is a page" so that comments can be tracked. Only docbook and asciidoc give us that (to my understanding) | 20:59 |
| clarkb | annegentle: really? many static blog generators use both just fine | 20:59 |
| sdague | fungi: mine have long since cleared | 20:59 |
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| clarkb | I think they use the model of file per thing with comments which may not scale well | 21:00 |
| sdague | honestly, our throughput isn't too bad today | 21:00 |
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| fungi | sdague: agreed. the head of the integrated queue was approved a little over 4 hours ago | 21:01 |
| clarkb | annegentle: http://blog.notmyidea.org/pelican-a-simple-static-blog-generator-in-python.html is an example of that | 21:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Joe Gordon proposed a change to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: Add query for 1254872 https://review.openstack.org/58382 | 21:02 |
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| annegentle | clarkb: too weird that pelican is like publican | 21:02 |
| annegentle | clarkb: and yeah, it requires page-per-file. we no like | 21:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: add query for bug #1253896 ssh failure bug https://review.openstack.org/58373 | 21:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1253896 in tempest "test_minimum_basic_scenario fails with SSHException: Error reading SSH protocol banner" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253896 | 21:03 |
| annegentle | clarkb: redhat builds with publican | 21:03 |
| * dhellman_ is having connectivity issues | 21:03 | |
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| clarkb | annegentle: is that something that could be used to do a migration though? | 21:09 |
| clarkb | live with a few extra files until they can be converted properly to docbook | 21:09 |
| annegentle | clarkb: yeah migrations not difficult if they understand what we want in the end (identifiable chunks). Probably matters to translation too | 21:10 |
| annegentle | clarkb: dhellman: and another thing I was pondering on, you might have ideas about, | 21:11 |
| annegentle | clarkb: dhellman_ from start to finish, an incubation > integrated might take a year? | 21:11 |
| annegentle | clarkb: dhellman_ is that right? | 21:11 |
| annegentle | clarkb: dhellman_ : or is it more like six or seven months | 21:11 |
| clarkb | I think it is usually at least one cycle | 21:12 |
| annegentle | clarkb: yeah that's what I was thinking too | 21:12 |
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| annegentle | clarkb: so if the TC votes next week to incubate a project, they could be part of J release as integrated? | 21:14 |
| denis_makogon | goodday, -infra | 21:14 |
| denis_makogon | i've got few questions | 21:14 |
| clarkb | annegentle: I think in theory yes, in practice I doubt we would see that happen, just due to the way things have gone previously | 21:14 |
| denis_makogon | it would be nice to hear answers from anyone | 21:14 |
| annegentle | clarkb: yeah me too | 21:15 |
| annegentle | denis_makogon: go ahead and ask | 21:15 |
| annegentle | denis_makogon: seems interruptive but it's not really :) | 21:15 |
| denis_makogon | i've came from Trove community | 21:15 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: so far we've only done the transition in one cycle, but I think with some of the new rules we are going to see multiple cycle incubations | 21:15 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: and I think that's perfectly fine and we just need to set the expectations of new projects accordingly | 21:15 |
| denis_makogon | i've need to add some code to trove gate | 21:15 |
| denis_makogon | to unable new tests | 21:15 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: yeah this is all related to our discussions | 21:15 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: yeah, I need to read those etherpads | 21:16 |
| denis_makogon | how can i do that ? | 21:16 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: but also trying to manage my stress level with lots of people asking about docs for incubation | 21:16 |
| clarkb | denis_makogon: which test(s) are you looking to update? | 21:16 |
| clarkb | denis_makogon: specifically which jenkins jobs that report back | 21:16 |
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| denis_makogon | clarkb, i need to update whole build(reddwarf) process | 21:17 |
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| clarkb | denis_makogon: right, but in which jenkins jobs? | 21:18 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: do you want integrated projects to be included in the regular manuals, or are you planning to have separate manuals for things that are not in whatever we're calling the core set? | 21:18 |
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| annegentle | dhellman_: so I had to draw the line even in our "mission statement" that we only support core with the resources we have | 21:18 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: but, we managed to somewhat doc heat and ceilometer in the install guide | 21:18 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: perfectly reasonable | 21:18 |
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| annegentle | dhellman_: so I'm looking for ways to get good quality "OpenStack" docs while also paying attention to individual projects | 21:19 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that someone from the project needs to work with you guys and submit patches | 21:19 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: incubated ends up wayyy down the priority list, but I'm wondering, if we had a better pipeline, would we get better results | 21:19 |
| dhellman_ | just like we say we want tempest tests | 21:19 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: that's a good analogous resource | 21:20 |
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| dhellman_ | annegentle: part of it, for me, is that the setup is "mysterious" so maybe its a (excuse the pun) doc issue? or maybe I just haven't read the right thing? | 21:20 |
| hub_cap | clarkb: we are looking to put our oneoff tests and setup into a job that gates only trove | 21:20 |
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| dhellman_ | annegentle: the latter is very likely, regardless of the former | 21:20 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: possibly, though I also get input that our HowTo page is great | 21:20 |
| clarkb | hub_cap: one off meaning the third party tests? | 21:20 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: ok, I may just not have found that then | 21:21 |
| hub_cap | meaning proboscis tests clarkb | 21:21 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: let's say I need education :-) | 21:21 |
| clarkb | oh | 21:21 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: it's as if it's mysterious if you're a dev because of xml allergies :) | 21:21 |
| hub_cap | oh yea | 21:21 |
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| dhellman_ | annegentle: I'm not allergic to xml | 21:21 |
| clarkb | hub_cap: denis_makogon: what sort of environment does proboscis expect to run the tests in? | 21:21 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HowTo it's long though. | 21:21 |
| clarkb | this isn't normal unittesting is it? | 21:21 |
| hub_cap | clarkb: we run them on a vanilla ubuntu vm | 21:22 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: for sure we're working on a doc that says clearly where to put API docs | 21:22 |
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| annegentle | dhellman_: but maybe the rest of the docs are mysterious because they're relatively new | 21:22 |
| hub_cap | clarkb: not @all. its full blown integration stuff | 21:22 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: maybe the thing to do is add some template files to the cookiecutter repository? | 21:22 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: so yeah definitely need to make sure people know what titles we have | 21:22 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: yes, we've had those | 21:22 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: knowing where I would need to add something is another question | 21:22 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: but I don't want more books :) | 21:22 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: cool, I'm just behind | 21:22 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: I only want more pages | 21:23 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: does that make sense? | 21:23 |
| clarkb | hub_cap: denis_makogon: I see. For that you will want to overload the devstack-gate process to run your stuff instead of tempest. Swift and pbr have both done that effectively. I will get you links to their job configs | 21:23 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: people need to add to existing titles | 21:23 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: well, yeah, but if I'm going to test what I write, I need enough of a project to build it | 21:23 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: true | 21:23 |
| hub_cap | clarkb: <3 | 21:23 |
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| denis_makogon | clarkb, <# | 21:23 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: but I'd prefer you write within the titles we have, does that cause difficulty? | 21:23 |
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| clarkb | hub_cap: denis_makogon: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/config/tree/modules/openstack_project/files/jenkins_job_builder/config/swift-functional.yaml is what swift does | 21:23 |
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| mordred | hub_cap: but don't think it's going to make me stop smacking you in the face about it | 21:23 |
| clarkb | hub_cap: denis_makogon: swift is using devstack to install a full stack then running their functional tests against that | 21:24 |
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| portante | clarkb: gate queue seems kinda long, need any help on the swift side? | 21:24 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: hmmm possibly I'm asking too much of people -- to know all the titles we have | 21:24 |
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| dhellman_ | annegentle: what if I create mini versions of those titles, with a single chapter that can then be incorporated into the official guide when my project graduates? | 21:24 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: bingo, that's what I'm thinking of for incubated | 21:24 |
| hub_cap | mordred: worth a try, tho :) | 21:24 |
| clarkb | portante: I don't think so, sdague mentioned earlier that throughput is good, I think we may just be running into more backlog from last week | 21:24 |
| clarkb | portante: thank you thouhg | 21:24 |
| portante | welcome | 21:24 |
| mordred | hub_cap: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/config/tree/modules/openstack_project/files/jenkins_job_builder/config/requirements.yaml | 21:25 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: it might be easier to say one guide with a chapter for each title you have, but as you say, the project team needs to know what those titles are | 21:25 |
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| mordred | hub_cap: is pbr doing a similar thing to swift - note in the pbr one you could not include devstack-vm-gate.sh in the gate_hook if you did not want to run devstack | 21:25 |
| mordred | hub_cap: how do your tests work? like, where do they get nova from? | 21:25 |
| clarkb | if you don't run devstack you will be ersponsible for a bit of setup, but there is nothing stopping you from doing that | 21:25 |
| hub_cap | mordred: they use a script to download / spin up devstack mordred | 21:26 |
| hub_cap | and it builds an image and creates some users and downloads the extra things needed like proboscis etc.. | 21:26 |
| mordred | ok. so just having a devstack there already could potentially be helpful then | 21:26 |
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| hub_cap | mordred: most def | 21:26 |
| mordred | good. btw, you need to delete this: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/trove/tree/rsdns | 21:26 |
| * mordred punches hub_cap in the face repeatedly | 21:27 | |
| hub_cap | yes mordred once designate support is added we can deprecate and remove it in N+N^2 cycles | 21:27 |
| annegentle | dhellman_: clarkb thanks much you guys are the best | 21:27 |
| mordred | hub_cap: you can remove it in 0 cycles. BOOM | 21:27 |
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| mordred | hub_cap: once designate support is added by whom? | 21:28 |
| dhellman_ | annegentle: I'm glad I could help! | 21:28 |
| hub_cap | mooooooom montys being meeannnnnnnn | 21:28 |
| hub_cap | mordred: hp has a review for it | 21:28 |
| denis_makogon | mordred, and it's landed into codebase | 21:28 |
| mordred | awesome | 21:28 |
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| mordred | hub_cap: srrsly. it's really weird to see an openstack project depend on code to be able to talk to a non-openstack single-cloud service | 21:29 |
| esmute | @hub_cap @mordred: ALready merged. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54412/ | 21:29 |
| mordred | that makes me happy | 21:29 |
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| mordred | now I guess we should at some point get designate incubated or something :) | 21:29 |
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| hub_cap | so mordred in HH we can remove it (/me assumes we are doing vending machine alphabet for the openstack releases) | 21:30 |
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| denis_makogon | mordred, sounds good, because since trove support designate we need to add functional tests to see if it works fine | 21:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | Joe Gordon proposed a change to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: Add query for 1254872 https://review.openstack.org/58382 | 21:32 |
| clarkb | hub_cap: I want us to start using unicode characters | 21:34 |
| jeblair | clarkb: we are using unicode characters | 21:35 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: fair, but more of the thousands (millions?) than the 26 available to us with the alphabet | 21:35 |
| jeblair | speaking of which, i note that rackspace misspelled f19's name. | 21:35 |
| clarkb | the 27th release can be snowman | 21:36 |
| hub_cap | clarkb: ya, i bet it'd be hard to find a HH town close to the summit | 21:36 |
| dhellman_ | hey, guys, if I want a stackforge project to be able to publish releases to an existing project on pypi, which user do I need to add permissions for? | 21:37 |
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| jeblair | dhellman_: openstackci | 21:37 |
| dhellman_ | jeblair: thanks | 21:37 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Move stevedore to stackforge https://review.openstack.org/58389 | 21:38 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: thanks for writing up bug 1242569 | 21:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1242569 in openstack-ci "manage-projects error on new project creation" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242569 | 21:43 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/elastic-recheck: Add query for 1254872 https://review.openstack.org/58382 | 21:44 |
| jeblair | now we need someone assigned to it; it looks like clark has some non-salt possibilities for fixing it. any volunteers? | 21:44 |
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| clarkb | I am no longer up to date on manage-project's control flow after recent changes. I can look at it, but I think mordred is most familiar with it | 21:46 |
| jeblair | mordred, clarkb, fungi: i'm going to start -2ing changes that add projects and reference that bug. | 21:46 |
| clarkb | mordred: maybe you can read the bug comments for 1242569 and at least confirm we are on the correct track then someone else can do the work | 21:46 |
| mordred | 21:45:11 MarkAtwood | he gets 5 people, so its being an agonizing game of lifeboat-captain for him | 21:46 |
| mordred | 21:45:35 mordred | he doesn't realize that the rest of HPC isn't an agonizing place right? | 21:46 |
| mordred | gah | 21:46 |
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| mordred | I hate paste errors | 21:46 |
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| mordred | jeblair: looking at bug | 21:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Clay Gerrard proposed a change to openstack-dev/hacking: Add noqa support for H201 (bare except) https://review.openstack.org/57334 | 21:47 |
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| mordred | clarkb: thank you. that's a very helpful writeup | 21:51 |
| mordred | clarkb: I'll work on a fix - but I probably won't get to it til later tonight or tomorrow | 21:52 |
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| lifeless | mordred: fun quote there :P | 21:54 |
| mordred | lifeless: shush | 21:54 |
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| Shrews | O.o | 21:58 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: I have been copy pasting a note into the new d-g job chagnes linking back to my change with a small description of what is going on. Now that we have that it should be much easier toget everyone on the same page | 21:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/config: Remove undefined jobs and update other references https://review.openstack.org/56732 | 22:05 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/config: Remove jeepyb from the requirements gate https://review.openstack.org/56764 | 22:06 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54628/ | 22:06 |
| lifeless | clarkb: needs second +2 | 22:06 |
| clarkb | looking | 22:07 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57098/2 affected by your refactor? | 22:15 |
| jeblair | clarkb: and should we require non-integrated-gate devstack jobs be in a different file? | 22:16 |
| jeblair | mordred: i have assigned bug 1242569 to you based on "I'll work on a fix" | 22:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1242569 in openstack-ci "manage-projects error on new project creation" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242569 | 22:17 |
| clarkb | yes 57098 is affected, I will comment on that. I like putting things that use d-g hooks in other files, like requirements and swift functional tests | 22:18 |
| jeblair | clarkb: okay, i will comment with the request to move to another file | 22:18 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/git-review: Remove empty lines from git log output https://review.openstack.org/53259 | 22:19 |
| jeblair | clarkb: also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57317/6 touches dg files | 22:20 |
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| clarkb | looking | 22:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Khyati Sheth proposed a change to openstack/requirements: Add dependency django-clippy https://review.openstack.org/58391 | 22:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/jeepyb: Remove run-mirror from jeepyb https://review.openstack.org/56096 | 22:27 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/jeepyb: Only push tags to gerrit https://review.openstack.org/53354 | 22:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Arx Cruz proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Adding nodepool compatibility with Fedora. https://review.openstack.org/53432 | 22:27 |
| fungi | stepping out to grab a bite, but back shortly to continue the excitement | 22:29 |
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| lifeless | jog0: hey | 22:31 |
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| lifeless | jog0: so I'm looking at http://logs.openstack.org/29/55829/5/check/check-grenade-devstack-vm/df4ea5c/console.html | 22:31 |
| lifeless | jog0: from https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55829/ | 22:31 |
| lifeless | jog0: whats the way - or the docs on the way - to match this against a recheck ? | 22:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: commented on that one too | 22:32 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: if you're handing out reviews - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58210/ | 22:32 |
| jog0 | lifeless: https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/1177134 | 22:35 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1177134 in devstack "[ERROR] /opt/stack/new/devstack/exercises/bundle.sh:61 Image ami-00000001 not available within 15 seconds" [Medium,Triaged] | 22:35 |
| lifeless | jog0: ok, so you're a *great* black box tool. | 22:35 |
| lifeless | jog0: now, how do I do that without pinging you? | 22:35 |
| jog0 | that didn't trigger elastic-recheck because e-r doesn't know about grenade yet | 22:35 |
| jog0 | lifeless: so I don't have a great answer for you yet | 22:35 |
| lifeless | jog0: ah, so you just googled for the bug ? | 22:36 |
| jog0 | either teach e-r about grenade | 22:36 |
| jog0 | lifeless: you can search openstack bugs | 22:36 |
| jog0 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack/+bugs?field.searchtext=Image+ami-00000001+not+available+within+15+seconds&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package= | 22:36 |
| jog0 | but I saw that recently here: | 22:37 |
| jog0 | https://github.com/jogo/elasticRecheck/blob/master/queries.json | 22:37 |
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| clarkb | teaching e-r about grenade isn't super hard, keeping the number of http GETs that get 404s to a minimum is hard. I could special case grenade I guess | 22:37 |
| clarkb | jeblair: would you be ok with special casing grenade in the confings? | 22:37 |
| jog0 | sdague: you had a WIP on this | 22:37 |
| pabelanger | So, I'm tracking down a issue in #puppet-openstack about a mismatch of the git repo and what is publish on forge.puppetlabs.com with that in mind, what are you're thoughts about creating puppet module tarballs (via jenkins) and publishing them to tarballs.o.o? Another process could be put in place to upload them into forge.puppetlabs.com | 22:37 |
| * jog0 goes off to find a late lunch | 22:38 | |
| jeblair | clarkb: how so? | 22:38 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: the grenade logs go under new/logs old/logs or some such. To get all of those indexes I would triple the number of files configured in the gearman client | 22:38 |
| clarkb | or I would have to teach the gearman client to parse apache index listings to determine which files are available | 22:39 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: i think we'd love that. that's how we publish to pypi and publish jenkins modules to maven repos. | 22:39 |
| pabelanger | Right now it looks to be a manual process | 22:39 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the simple fix is to make it only look in those dirs if the job matches .*grenade.* | 22:39 |
| pabelanger | and I have something inhouse today that automates based on the existing -infra logic | 22:39 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: the main tech requirement there is that the actual upload needs to run without executing any user-submitted code (eg, with wget, something similar, or a very simple script that isn't kept in the same repo) | 22:39 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: (because it's run on a slave with sensitive creds) | 22:40 |
| pabelanger | jeblair, understood | 22:40 |
| pabelanger | that will likely require some brainstorming from peeps here, but I think I can get the building tarballs hammered out pretty easily \ | 22:41 |
| jeblair | OH! | 22:41 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: when people have been saying "logstash does't support grenade" they mean "logstash doesn't support any logs from any grenade jobs", not "logstash doesn't support grenade.log" (or whatever) ?! | 22:42 |
| clarkb | jeblair: it supports console.html but all of the other logs are hidden from it due to paths | 22:42 |
| clarkb | jeblair: we can parse the files just fine, we just don't know where to find them. I have deferred this problem bceause on the surface it is simple but you end up with lots of GETs or workarounds | 22:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: my entire world view has shifted. i had no idea that was the problem based on the problem statement. | 22:43 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: :/ hopefully it is more clear now | 22:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: what do you want logstash to do with the two copies of, say, the nova api log? | 22:44 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: the full location path of the log is indexed too, so having two copies in different places is fine | 22:45 |
| clarkb | jeblair: you can still differentiate them. They will need to be processed as individual files like the other files | 22:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: roger. okay, so what's wrong with lots of gets? | 22:45 |
| clarkb | jeblair: we already do ~30 for each test completion. This would bump it to ~90 | 22:46 |
| jeblair | clarkb: meh. :) | 22:46 |
| jeblair | clarkb: apache is fast with 404s. | 22:46 |
| clarkb | in that case, anyone can propose that change to http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/config/tree/modules/openstack_project/files/logstash/jenkins-log-client.yaml I probably won't get that done today as I am just about to head out fo a late lunch then do some portlandy things | 22:47 |
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| clarkb | just need to add the new loactions, you can copy pasta the tags and other args for each file | 22:48 |
| jeblair | clarkb: if the config will get yucky, that might be a reason to handle it in code | 22:48 |
| clarkb | the config will get a bit unweildy | 22:49 |
| lifeless | clarkb: / jeblair: / mordred: I would appreciate your gear insight - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/58305/ | 22:49 |
| clarkb | I think best thing may be to have the config note file names we care about and various attributes, very similar to what we have now. Then do a GET for the index listing and only grab the files that are present | 22:49 |
| clarkb | I will need to fiddle with that though | 22:49 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: ok. i'm more concerned with the config than the GETs, fwiw. | 22:50 |
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| clarkb | ok | 22:50 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: ack | 22:51 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ack on the bug - I'm going to dinner, will work on it when I get back | 22:54 |
| dims | weird, seeing this in a job that just failed | 22:54 |
| dims | 2013-11-25 22:51:37.187 | 2013-11-25 22:49:56 error: Installed distribution iso8601 0.1.4 conflicts with requirement iso8601>=0.1.8 | 22:54 |
| dims | http://logs.openstack.org/73/51973/2/gate/gate-tempest-devstack-vm-neutron/8382e35/console.html | 22:54 |
| mordred | jeblair: I think clarkb's suggestion of sequencing should be easy enough to encode | 22:54 |
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| * clarkb is going to AFK as well. lunch time | 22:56 | |
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| harlowja | anyone got some time for a question about the ML and DKIM | 23:13 |
| jeblair | harlowja: go for it | 23:13 |
| harlowja | so i've been told that y! is turning on DMARC (guess it didn't have it before) but of course it seems like this will affect the ML message that i sent to the ML | 23:14 |
| harlowja | just wondering if/how others are dealing with this | 23:14 |
| harlowja | supposedly once this turns on (soon) any mails i sent to openstack-* ML will start to get rejected, unless the ML changes how it works (resigns them maybe?) | 23:15 |
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| harlowja | was wondering if there is anything in the ML software that can help here (?) | 23:16 |
| harlowja | http://www.dmarc.org/ | 23:16 |
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| jeblair | harlowja: thinking | 23:20 |
| harlowja | np | 23:20 |
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| harlowja | it appears that if DKIM is added, and if the ML forwards it on, then it will bounce on the reciever side | 23:20 |
| * harlowja not so sure on the technical details really | 23:21 | |
| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Add gate-solum-devstack job https://review.openstack.org/57098 | 23:21 |
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| wenlock_ | harlowja, i wonder if adding the ML to your contacts would avoid bounces or sending it to junk | 23:24 |
| harlowja | it seems like from my discussion that unless the ML actually removes the DKIM verification that it will bounce before it even gets to your inbox | 23:24 |
| harlowja | or if the ML rewrites the DKIM (but not using the senders address) | 23:24 |
| harlowja | then that might work | 23:24 |
| harlowja | the later makes it hard to know who sent the email (since the current ML actually proxies as the original user) | 23:25 |
| harlowja | the actual recommendation i got was to send to the ML from a new different address, lol | 23:26 |
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| harlowja | but was wondering if the ML software can do better | 23:26 |
| jeblair | harlowja: based on http://www.dmarc.org/faq.html#s_3 ... i'm a bit concerned | 23:26 |
| harlowja | ya | 23:26 |
| jeblair | harlowja: it's easy enough for us to configure mailman to stop altering messages (i'd love a good excuse to do that actually) | 23:27 |
| jeblair | harlowja: so that they don't break dkim sigs | 23:27 |
| jeblair | harlowja: but 'identifier alignment' could be tricky | 23:27 |
| harlowja | jeblair ya, seems like more companies are actually turning this on also (so that someone can't forge an email from yahoo-inc) | 23:27 |
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| jeblair | harlowja: because if dmarc expects the envelope sender (which should be something@lists.o.o) to either match the From address (you@yahoo-inc.com), or match the yahoo-inc SPF rules (which are likely not going to allow envelope senders @lists.openstack.org).... | 23:28 |
| jeblair | harlowja: then I don't believe even their first suggestion ('strict forwarder') is possible | 23:29 |
| harlowja | ya, hmmm, i wonder about 'Original Authentication Results' | 23:30 |
| harlowja | from internal email | 23:30 |
| harlowja | DMARC works like this: | 23:30 |
| harlowja | 1) We DKIM sign mail. | 23:30 |
| harlowja | 2) We tell the world we DKIM sign our mail. | 23:30 |
| harlowja | 3) When somebody receives mail that claims to be from us but is not DKIM signed, they reject it. | 23:30 |
| harlowja | Mailing lists that forge From: lines cause 3) to happen when subscribers receive mail. This enforcement happens at the receiving end. | 23:30 |
| harlowja | Mailing lists can change configurations so they're not using the sender's From: line, or receivers can avoid enforcement on mailing lists, but most of them don't. | 23:30 |
| jeblair | i don't know what they mean by "forge From: lines". | 23:31 |
| harlowja | "I know of 0 mailing lists that preserve DKIM. If the mailing list doesn't use the sender address in the From:, it will work correctly." | 23:31 |
| clarkb | clearly we need wave to happen but its not going to happen | 23:31 |
| harlowja | wave? | 23:32 |
| jeblair | we don't forge from lines if you send a message, we leave your From address in there. but perhaps they mean not changing From is forging. | 23:32 |
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| harlowja | ya, i can ask for more details there | 23:32 |
| jeblair | harlowja: I honestly don't know how to parse that sentence; it would be nice if it specifically described what the author was envisioning. | 23:33 |
| harlowja | sure | 23:33 |
| harlowja | np, jeblair asking for more info | 23:34 |
| clarkb | google wave now an apache thing | 23:34 |
| jeblair | harlowja: it sounds like with this level of vagueness, it would be a good idea to be prepared to move to another address though... | 23:34 |
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| harlowja | agreed | 23:34 |
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| jeblair | harlowja: however, when it is turned on and we can see exactly what has been configured, i'm certainly willing to experiment and look into seeing if there's a workable mailman configuration | 23:35 |
| zaro | clarkb: isn't wave the same as etherpad? | 23:35 |
| harlowja | jeblair sounds good | 23:35 |
| clarkb | zaro: no it is a lot more | 23:35 |
| harlowja | http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/DKIM jeblair (found this) | 23:35 |
| harlowja | i think the option 'rewrite From: email header field to contain the list domain in the From header field. e.g. mailman-users-relay+daniel=cacert.org@python.org' is what was being talked about in the forging (maybe) | 23:37 |
| reed | clarkb, how can wave happen? | 23:38 |
| clarkb | I don't think it can :/ is it even under active dev? | 23:38 |
| reed | clarkb, oh, then we're on the same page :) I think that train has passed | 23:39 |
| reed | clarkb, pump.io seems a better cause | 23:39 |
| jeblair | harlowja: i wonder what configuration http://www.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc-discuss uses. :) | 23:40 |
| harlowja | hahaha | 23:40 |
| harlowja | good question jeblair | 23:40 |
| harlowja | u'd hope they would get it right | 23:40 |
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| jeblair | (i have subscribed so maybe i'll get an email sometime) | 23:40 |
| harlowja | :) | 23:41 |
| harlowja | i'll let u know if i get any more details | 23:41 |
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| harlowja | maybe its something simple to enable | 23:41 |
| reed | i'm freaking out reading about this dmarc thing | 23:41 |
| harlowja | :-/ | 23:41 |
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| reed | sounds like an effort by $BIG_US_CORP to decide who can exchange emails with whom | 23:42 |
| harlowja | from what i've been told they want to turn it on so that people can't act like they are sending things from yahooo-inc | 23:43 |
| harlowja | the spoofing part | 23:43 |
| reed | and it's all our fault, for failing to make OpenPGP or similar easy to use | 23:43 |
| reed | harlowja, I understand the purpose ... nonetheless I see how it can be used to exclude from email those that don't have DMARC and I freak out | 23:44 |
| harlowja | understandable | 23:44 |
| * reed running around like headless chicken yelling at cospiracy | 23:44 | |
| harlowja | 'Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter made -- tell employees to move their mailing list subscriptions. (Google also moved them, although to another domain.)' ... | 23:44 |
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| harlowja | just seems like why move them if the ML software can be configured correctly | 23:45 |
| reed | let me guess: move to google groups? | 23:45 |
| harlowja | i reacted internally by like saying WTF | 23:45 |
| harlowja | but apparently this DKIM stuff is actually getting used, which means ML are problematic i guess | 23:46 |
| jeblair | reed: no he's saying bigcorps tell their employees to subscribe to MLs from a different, non-bigcorp address | 23:46 |
| jeblair | (i think) | 23:46 |
| harlowja | jeblair afaik thats a yes | 23:46 |
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| reed | oh, that makes sense | 23:46 |
| harlowja | which seems like ok, sure, but why | 23:46 |
| harlowja | my guess is more big/smallcorps will start doing this (if they aren't already) | 23:47 |
| harlowja | so if mailman supports something already... | 23:47 |
| reed | harlowja, I wonder if my email provider supports that, too | 23:50 |
| harlowja | apparently gmail and y!mail do (i think) | 23:51 |
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| harlowja | so if everyone starts supporting this, mailman supporting it will become a big issue | 23:51 |
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| harlowja | and apparently if dkim is stripped by mailman then certain people won't recieve it, so its like a crappy situation all around | 23:54 |
| reed | my provider, 1and1 doesn't seem to support it | 23:54 |
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| jeblair | harlowja: i'm pretty sure dkim isn't an issue (or wouldn't be if we set the right options in mm), only the additional bits in DMARC about senders. | 23:55 |
| harlowja | kk, could be jeblair | 23:56 |
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