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| openstackgerrit | Ankur proposed openstack/octavia master: Add v2 load balancer type and controllers https://review.openstack.org/423543 | 00:13 |
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| rm_mobile | OK I'm just gonna be around here for a minute | 00:15 |
| rm_mobile | Trying to get some lunch | 00:15 |
| rm_mobile | Ah darn, diltram didn't have a chance to test and +2 after my changes | 00:16 |
| rm_mobile | Johnsom, any ideas on the testing for the Cascade delete fix? | 00:17 |
| rm_mobile | I don't really get what those flow tests are supposed to accomplish | 00:17 |
| rm_mobile | They seem pretty useless to me... But, I also don't have any ideas about how to effectively replace them, so I feel like I shouldn't talk too much shit :P | 00:17 |
| johnsom | I think they accomplish something is better than nothing. They are barely useful | 00:18 |
| johnsom | The biggest value I have seen is the check for requires/provides | 00:19 |
| johnsom | There might be some way to validate which tasks are in the flow, but... | 00:20 |
| johnsom | You work with the taskflow genius, so... | 00:20 |
| johnsom | I think I considered having it validate the tasks and order, but bang for buck didn't seem there. For the quota thing though, a scenario should catch that, but we don't have scenario for cascade delete and we don't have keystone auth so the quota is bypassed | 00:24 |
| rm_mobile | Yeah ugh | 00:29 |
| rm_mobile | Yeah I should ask harlowja how he usually does testing for flows | 00:29 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ankur proposed openstack/octavia master: Add v2 load balancer type and controllers https://review.openstack.org/423543 | 00:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sindhu Devale proposed openstack/octavia master: DB migration to add ID column to HM https://review.openstack.org/430451 | 00:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ankur proposed openstack/octavia master: Introduce TESTING.rst for quick developer reference https://review.openstack.org/403938 | 00:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Sindhu Devale proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas master: Updating import for linux/interface opts https://review.openstack.org/352471 | 00:54 |
| harlowja | diltram well an idea is we can cut the junk of ' small amount of same capabilities in all of this projects like etcd, zookeeper, rest' | 00:59 |
| harlowja | and we can like pick one and use it and make it better | 00:59 |
| harlowja | i personally don't like how we avoid picking one and just write an abstraction of them | 01:00 |
| johnsom | harlowja I think most everyone is gone for the day/long weekend | 01:00 |
| harlowja | i don't think its healthy in the long term to keep that up :-P | 01:00 |
| harlowja | johnsom durn | 01:00 |
| harlowja | lol | 01:00 |
| johnsom | I would love to have this discussion though. Ping ideas back and forth. | 01:00 |
| johnsom | My problem is I just rolled over 5pm on date night...... | 01:01 |
| harlowja | ya, i am not a big fan of lets have X implementations for all of time | 01:01 |
| johnsom | Maybe we should setup a time window to chat about it. I would say our weekly meeting, but that agenda is already full next week | 01:03 |
| harlowja | maybe :-P | 01:03 |
| xgerman | harlowja sorry being late to the party | 01:04 |
| harlowja | lol | 01:04 |
| xgerman | nobody is stopping you to assign 3 ip addresses to each health monitor and then just take one of the additional ones and spin up a new one | 01:04 |
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| johnsom | We can solve this on our own cleaner than that, but I think the discussion is about alternate technologies that maybe should be applied across projects | 01:05 |
| xgerman | k | 01:05 |
| xgerman | most of those tools (etcd, zookeeper) solve the distributed locking/transaction problem and we have a database for that… | 01:07 |
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| xgerman | k8 doesn’t have a DB and stores everything in etcd for instance… | 01:07 |
| xgerman | so I see those things more useful for stuff which doesn’t have a DB… | 01:08 |
| xgerman | also the DB access model is a bit more nuanced than those things | 01:09 |
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| rm_work | xgerman: yeah i proposed something like that | 01:10 |
| rm_work | the problem is we can't always assign IPs to stuff | 01:10 |
| xgerman | well, you could do DNS names… | 01:10 |
| oomichi | hi, can anyone take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439115/ ? | 01:10 |
| rm_work | like, if we do some of the HMs on VMs, we can use floating IPs sure, but we can't assign those to baremetal | 01:11 |
| oomichi | the test seems to use nonexistent exception, maybe the timeout doesn't happen usually and we could not find | 01:11 |
| rm_work | xgerman: so, I WAS using DNS | 01:11 |
| rm_work | but we disable DNS on the amps now | 01:11 |
| rm_work | so it doesn't work | 01:11 |
| rm_work | I am considering just ... undoing that | 01:11 |
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| xgerman | yeah, that might be an easy fix | 01:11 |
| xgerman | I am still hesitant to give the amps access to say an etcd which can crash cinder/swift | 01:12 |
| rm_work | oomichi: Interesting! Yeah, I've seen some hilariously bad stuff like that sprinkled around, where if the code tried to execute it would NEVER work | 01:12 |
| rm_work | oomichi: your patch fixes it? | 01:12 |
| xgerman | that patch seems to get us more in line with tempest_lib +2’d it | 01:13 |
| xgerman | rm_work maybe you should just get a UDP load balancer then you can shrink/increase the health_monitor without the amps knowing :-) | 01:14 |
| oomichi | xgerman: thanks :) | 01:14 |
| oomichi | rm_work: I just found some wrong use case of tempest.lib and hope it would be helpful :) | 01:15 |
| xgerman | I also know that almost nobody is running a secure etcd inside k8 — this is far too much hassle and undocumented setup | 01:15 |
| * oomichi needs to go home now, see you | 01:15 | |
| xgerman | also for all those thing to make sense you need at least 3 AZs | 01:16 |
| rm_work | oomichi: ok, i was going to ask another question about that area, but that small fix looks good :P | 01:16 |
| rm_work | xgerman: yeah, we actually do have 3+ AZs, which factors into our HM deployment strategy | 01:16 |
| rm_work | I am thinking it is a good idea to have at least one Health-Monitor process running per AZ | 01:16 |
| rm_work | that way if an AZ goes down, we're still HA on them | 01:16 |
| xgerman | yep, that’s what I would do as well | 01:17 |
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| xgerman | also we still provide some redundancy if you only have like 2 hm’s up but etcd/consul don’t (see bottom of https://www.consul.io/docs/internals/consensus.html) | 01:17 |
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| xgerman | personally I don’t like the non-linearity of their failure tolerance | 01:19 |
| rm_work | this is lulzy: http://logs.openstack.org/15/439115/1/check/gate-neutron-lbaasv2-dsvm-py3x-scenario-ubuntu-xenial-nv/e860b2e/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz#_2017-02-28_20_26_13_535 | 01:19 |
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| johnsom | rm_work DNS just shifts the problem IMHO, it's either a list of DNS IPs or a list of HM IPs.... | 01:20 |
| rm_work | johnsom: i thought you were supposed to be at date night | 01:20 |
| johnsom | I am but had to jump in | 01:20 |
| rm_work | johnsom: well yeah but we can UPDATE the DNS | 01:20 |
| rm_work | it'd just be like | 01:20 |
| xgerman | maybe we should just do multicast UDP :-) | 01:20 |
| rm_work | octavia-hm.mysite.com or whatever | 01:20 |
| xgerman | anycast | 01:20 |
| rm_work | and we can fix that at our leisure as we bring things up and down | 01:20 |
| rm_work | lol | 01:21 |
| rm_work | yeah that'd be great, 10000 amphora anycasting UDP constantly :P | 01:21 |
| rm_work | actually, i say that, but i'm not honestly sure what the network overhead is like for that | 01:21 |
| xgerman | gives your network gear a work out | 01:21 |
| rm_work | also, then you couldn't span outside of a specific network segment, right? | 01:21 |
| rm_work | so your HMs would have to all be within that network segment | 01:21 |
| rm_work | or, is it *on those switches*? | 01:22 |
| rm_work | I am really bad at the lower level networking stuff | 01:22 |
| rm_work | but it seems like that could be a problem | 01:22 |
| xgerman | nope, it would be in that segment — you could use overlay to go over different segments | 01:22 |
| xgerman | I know in one of my jobs we used anycast and the network people got real mad | 01:23 |
| johnsom | Yeah, to do service discovery pure and right you really need multicast, which the overlays don't always do right. | 01:23 |
| rm_work | lol | 01:23 |
| rm_work | hmm | 01:23 |
| johnsom | I'm really about seeding and then updating a known list | 01:23 |
| rm_work | yeah, don't want to make the network guys mad O_o | 01:23 |
| rm_work | we need them to like us | 01:23 |
| rm_work | yeah I'm ok with that | 01:24 |
| rm_work | so maybe the path forward is to update the agent | 01:24 |
| rm_work | to allow us to update the agent's config | 01:24 |
| johnsom | We could get fancy and try to discover via broadcast or multicast to seed the list, but, we already have config drive. | 01:24 |
| johnsom | It's really just about adding the update part | 01:24 |
| rm_work | i wish we had a network-mounted volume that we could just *update* | 01:25 |
| rm_work | and have the files be updated | 01:25 |
| rm_work | then we'd just need to trigger a restart | 01:25 |
| johnsom | This is a side discussion from the other "there might be a better way for OpenStack" | 01:25 |
| rm_work | unless it supported i-notify events ^_^ | 01:25 |
| xgerman | well, NFS might be THEbway for open stack | 01:25 |
| xgerman | there is glusterfs BTW | 01:26 |
| johnsom | They are talking about multi-mount, but yeah, a few thousand instances all "mounted"? | 01:26 |
| johnsom | seems, um, fragile | 01:27 |
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| xgerman | I think gluster could do it | 01:27 |
| rm_work | is it? >_> | 01:27 |
| johnsom | infra has been using afs | 01:27 |
| johnsom | I think it is afs, I'm getting tiered | 01:28 |
| xgerman | possibly | 01:28 |
| johnsom | Anyway, think about the change velocity of the data, design solution that is appropriate. Changes once a day vs. every few seconds | 01:29 |
| johnsom | Ok, have to go now. | 01:29 |
| xgerman | k | 01:29 |
| johnsom | Catch you tomorrow or next week | 01:29 |
| xgerman | k | 01:29 |
| rm_work | o/ | 01:30 |
| xgerman | yeah, I think in our case since all new amphora will be seeded with new hms… that should work for 90% of scale cases | 01:31 |
| xgerman | unless you have to change ips all at once… | 01:31 |
| rm_work | yeah | 01:31 |
| rm_work | so, I was also considering scale implications... | 01:31 |
| rm_work | you might want to have like | 01:31 |
| rm_work | 3x the HMs you want to use | 01:31 |
| rm_work | so say | 01:31 |
| rm_work | you want each amp to report to at least 3 HMs | 01:32 |
| rm_work | include like 9 HMs in the list of HMs in config | 01:32 |
| xgerman | well, you start with 3 hm and know they can do X lbs | 01:32 |
| rm_work | and then when you create the configuration for an amp during the amp boot process, just select 3 from those 9 | 01:32 |
| rm_work | randomly | 01:32 |
| xgerman | if you get to 1/2 X you spin up a new HM set, and the new LBs will have more HM | 01:33 |
| rm_work | well, so think about what happens if you have 10000 amps | 01:33 |
| rm_work | you're trying to solve for two things, really | 01:33 |
| rm_work | HA for the HMs | 01:33 |
| rm_work | so if some go down, everything is still ok | 01:33 |
| rm_work | but also, scale for lots of amps | 01:33 |
| rm_work | right now, every HM would get every UDP packet from every AMP | 01:33 |
| xgerman | nope | 01:34 |
| rm_work | so with tons of amps, things could get a little overloaded | 01:34 |
| rm_work | right now they do | 01:34 |
| xgerman | we pick one IP at random and send the UDP there | 01:34 |
| rm_work | oh, really? | 01:34 |
| rm_work | err | 01:34 |
| rm_work | OK, I thought we always sent the packets to all of them | 01:34 |
| rm_work | that is actually kinda scary | 01:34 |
| rm_work | since that means we could have one HM go down, and have an amp randomly select that one several times | 01:34 |
| rm_work | and then it gets recycled <_< | 01:35 |
| xgerman | it’s not random it’s round robin | 01:35 |
| xgerman | sorry | 01:35 |
| rm_work | ah ok | 01:35 |
| rm_work | that's better at least | 01:35 |
| rm_work | yeah so that's prolly ok | 01:36 |
| xgerman | yep, so you can just put all your HMs in the list and it will be ok | 01:36 |
| rm_work | alright, I am slightly less concerned | 01:36 |
| xgerman | and the add a new HM set for scale and new amphora will use that | 01:36 |
| rm_work | but that also means, you probably want your failover time to be at least greater than heartbeat_interval * num_hms | 01:36 |
| xgerman | yeah, it is right now | 01:37 |
| xgerman | but you can configure it | 01:37 |
| rm_work | hah, true, if some HM starts to get overloaded, remove it from the config on the controller, and it'll stay only that busy | 01:37 |
| rm_work | ok, that seems reasonable | 01:37 |
| xgerman | if you add new HMs early enough the new ones will dilute the load and you will be fine | 01:38 |
| rm_work | yeah | 01:38 |
| xgerman | and it will be rebalanced during amp updates (aka new image) anyway periodically | 01:38 |
| xgerman | so you could accelerate that if things really get dicey | 01:39 |
| rm_work | yep | 01:39 |
| rm_work | it's a self-solving problem too P | 01:40 |
| rm_work | if the lists get too out of date and all the HMs are elsewhere... it'll failover and be remade with a correct list :P | 01:41 |
| xgerman | indeed :-) | 01:42 |
| korean101 | hi. guys | 01:48 |
| korean101 | why sometimes amphora VM can't get LB-member's ARP | 01:49 |
| korean101 | ? | 01:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron-lbaas master: Use tempest.lib's TimeoutException https://review.openstack.org/439115 | 02:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/octavia master: Add network_id to VIP to match neutron-lbaas https://review.openstack.org/429926 | 02:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas master: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/439327 | 03:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Adam Harwell proposed openstack/octavia master: Allow to create vip in lb-mgmt-net https://review.openstack.org/431179 | 03:28 |
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| johnsom | korean101: hi, did you figure it out? | 03:42 |
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| korean101 | johnsom: well. no... :( | 03:45 |
| korean101 | sometimes no one reply for ARP request | 03:45 |
| johnsom | Ok, tell me more about the issue you are seeing | 03:45 |
| korean101 | oh. god | 03:45 |
| korean101 | thanks | 03:45 |
| korean101 | johnsom: 1 mins... | 03:46 |
| johnsom | Sure | 03:46 |
| korean101 | i use this autoscaling template (https://github.com/tigerlinux/tigerlinux-extra-recipes/tree/master/recipes/openstack/autoscaling-with-lbaasv2#how-can-i-use-this-template-) | 03:46 |
| johnsom | Are you using DVR? | 03:46 |
| korean101 | yes | 03:46 |
| korean101 | DVR+OVS | 03:46 |
| korean101 | and all works fine | 03:47 |
| korean101 | tested VM works fine | 03:47 |
| korean101 | tested Heat VM works fine | 03:47 |
| johnsom | Ah, so DVR does some strange thing with ARP | 03:47 |
| korean101 | tested AutoScaling template works fine | 03:47 |
| korean101 | Oh!!!!! | 03:47 |
| korean101 | is that true? | 03:47 |
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| johnsom | Yes, DVR will impact ARP. | 03:48 |
| johnsom | So you are seeing the amp not able to reach the member? | 03:49 |
| korean101 | johnsom: my conf (http://paste.openstack.org/show/601227/) | 03:49 |
| johnsom | I have not seen this template before, I will take a look | 03:49 |
| korean101 | johnsom: yes! | 03:49 |
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| johnsom | Can you test with DVR disabled? | 03:53 |
| johnsom | I know DVR has a but with floating IPs. They are planning to fix in Pike | 03:54 |
| johnsom | Sorry, bug | 03:55 |
| korean101 | hmmm | 03:55 |
| korean101 | not tested DVR disabled | 03:55 |
| korean101 | but i have nothing problem about FIP | 03:55 |
| korean101 | sometimes cant reply ARP | 03:56 |
| korean101 | but i restart dhcp agent and works fine | 03:56 |
| johnsom | I think it you could do a test with DVR disabled it would help narrow the problem | 03:56 |
| korean101 | johnsom: OK. i'll try that | 03:57 |
| korean101 | johnsom: and i'll ask later! | 03:58 |
| korean101 | johnsom: many thanks. everytime! | 03:58 |
| johnsom | Ok, good luck! | 03:59 |
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| korean101 | hmmm. somethind about ARP is wrong (https://docs.openstack.org/releasenotes/neutron/newton.html) | 04:20 |
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| korean101 | i use 9.1.0 | 04:20 |
| korean101 | but not used HA. so weird.. | 04:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Shashank Kumar Shankar proposed openstack/octavia master: [WIP] Run Octavia API as a WSGI script https://review.openstack.org/440934 | 05:54 |
| korean101 | johnsom: well... | 05:57 |
| korean101 | johnsom: i try to upgrade neutron 9.1.0 -> 9.2.0 | 05:57 |
| korean101 | johnsom: So far, no problem. | 05:58 |
| johnsom | Ah, good news | 05:58 |
| korean101 | johnsom: I will test it repeatedly many times. | 05:58 |
| johnsom | Ok, good plan | 05:59 |
| korean101 | johnsom: and some other question. | 05:59 |
| korean101 | johnsom: Can I deploy without using a DVR? | 06:00 |
| korean101 | johnsom: network bottleneck without DVR | 06:00 |
| korean101 | johnsom: I am worried about performance. | 06:01 |
| johnsom | Well, yeah, with the bug in dvr it is an issue. Some have used non-dvr for vip, etc. others have found too many bugs with DVR and don't use it | 06:02 |
| johnsom | The flip bug had been open for a number of releases with no fix | 06:03 |
| korean101 | johnsom: ahhhh | 06:03 |
| korean101 | johnsom: so sad... | 06:03 |
| korean101 | johnsom: BTW. I highly expect version 1.0. (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Octavia/Roadmap#Major_milestone:_Octavia_Version_1.0_-_Planned) | 06:04 |
| korean101 | first major version | 06:04 |
| johnsom | Yeah, we should have the full api for release 1.0.0 | 06:05 |
| johnsom | We are working hard | 06:06 |
| korean101 | johnsom: yeah. you looks like that.. thanks! | 06:06 |
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| korean101 | johnsom: OMG... | 07:48 |
| korean101 | johnsom: endless ARP REQ again... | 07:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | Kobi Samoray proposed openstack/octavia master: Devstack plugin: API only mode https://review.openstack.org/438240 | 10:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sindhu Devale proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas master: Updating import for linux/interface opts https://review.openstack.org/352471 | 15:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron-lbaas master: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/439327 | 19:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/octavia master: tempest: Switch to local copy of tempset/scenario/manager.py https://review.openstack.org/439276 | 21:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | German Eichberger proposed openstack/octavia master: Adds a new feature to limit the amphora build rate https://review.openstack.org/303304 | 22:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/neutron-lbaas master: consume ServicePluginBase from neutron-lib https://review.openstack.org/441442 | 22:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Johnson proposed openstack/octavia master: Add tempesttest for the N-LBaaS API https://review.openstack.org/413697 | 23:07 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Johnson proposed openstack/octavia master: Update the scenario tests for octavia updates https://review.openstack.org/429825 | 23:17 |
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