Friday, 2014-07-18

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peoplemerge'db type could not be determined'00:32
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peoplemergethat's odd, my falcon doesn't have ordereddict as a transitive dep on py2600:57
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openstackgerritKurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/marconi: feat(v1.1): Default TTL and grace values
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openstackgerritKurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/marconi: feat(v1.1): Default TTL and grace values
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openstackgerritPrashanth Raghu proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Implements Queue and Message Controllers for Redis
prashanthr_flaper87: Hello :)08:05
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flaper87prashanthr_: hey hey08:08
flaper87I was looking for you yday08:08
flaper87I don't remember why08:08
flaper87oh wait08:08
prashanthr_flaper87: Yeah :P I just slept on my desk08:08
prashanthr_first day in the gym :P08:09
prashanthr_I have removed all the unrequired files08:09
prashanthr_today morning08:09
flaper87prashanthr_: awesome, I'll review again08:10
prashanthr_flaper87: Sure. thanks a lot. Sorry for bugging you so many times.08:10
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flaper87prashanthr_: oh, don't worry. Please do ping me08:15
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prashanthr_flaper87: Sure :)08:20
* flaper87 is going to regret that08:20
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* prashanthr_ wil make sure he regrets :P08:22
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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Updated from global requirements
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maliniflaper87: hello!14:18
flaper87malini: hey :D14:19
maliniflaper87: how are you?14:19
sriramGoooood morning everyone :D14:19
flaper87malini: I'm great, what about you?14:20
flaper87sriram: hey hey14:20
maliniflaper87: good :)14:20
maliniAre you planning to take on ?14:20
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sriramquestion: if we remove queue check existence, wont lazy queue create get broken?14:24
malinisriram: if it does, we dont need to implement this bp :-P14:25
sriramI was wondering because of this.
sriramflaper87: ^14:27
sriramI may be wrong.14:27
flaper87we would remove it from the API not the storage plane14:27
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sriramaaah, got you.14:28
* sriram is slow this morning14:28
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maliniheyy vkmc!14:43
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vkmchi malini :)14:44
flaper87malini: if you're not doing that, I'll stab it14:46
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alcabreragood morning. o/15:01
vkmcmorning alcabrera o/15:02
alcabreraheya, vkmc! how are you? :)15:02
vkmcI woke up with a headache, but I'm good now!15:03
vkmcalcabrera, you?15:03
alcabreraI woke up too early to get boxes to pack for the move from the local grocery store. I'm tired, but happy. :)15:05
malinicoming back to, - Should we really get rid of this?15:06
sriramwoo alcabrera :) great to see you here.15:06
srirammalini: as flaper87 mentioned I think thats the transport API we are getting rid of15:06
maliniWhat if someone creates a queue & wants to make sure it is really there for some reason?15:06
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alcabrerahola, sriram!15:06
malinialcabrera: woww…are you ready to start packing?15:06
alcabrerayes, malini - right after oscon!15:07
sriramwe will still keep the storage controller queue existence check around.15:07
srirammalini: ^15:07
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malinisriram: yes, but it is not something an user can access15:07
malinialcabrera: where is oscon happening?15:07
sriramjuly 18?15:07
sriramjuly 20-2415:08
* sriram didnt realise july 18 was today :P15:08
alcabreramalini: as sriram said. I'll be giving my talk @ 5pm on the 22nd. :)15:09
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sriramlive streaming? :D15:09
malinitht must be exciting alcabrera!15:09
vkmcyaay alcabrera :D15:10
vkmcfor both the moving and the talk15:10
alcabrerathanks, vkmc. :)15:10
alcabrerasriram: no livestream for the track talks, I believe.15:10
alcabrerahowever, the videos should be made public shortly after!15:10
srirammalini: correct, but I think that is going to be the point? users do not need to care about queues being there anymore.15:11
alcabreraand of course, you have a direct link to the source, so once I finish putting these slides together, feel free to ping me. :)15:11
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malinisriram: yeah..Maybe it's my squirrel brain loving to hoard - But we are taking away user's ability to chk the queue existence..15:12
maliniAnyways I agree, thts the whole point of lazy queues15:13
sriram:) lol at the squirell15:13
openstackgerritMalini Kamalambal proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Remove check queue exists endpoint.
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sriramthat was a quick patch :D15:47
srirambbl lunh15:55
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peoplemerge_MORNING all!16:41
peoplemerge_sorry for shouting, caps log was on, but then it fits doesn't it??16:41
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vkmcHI peoplemerge!16:43
alcabreraheya, peoplemerge_. :)16:44
alcabreraso much energy. ;)16:44
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kgriffsalcabrera: congrats on getting your talk accepted. I hadn't heard about that until today.16:49
kgriffsalcabrera: you need a new nick16:49
kgriffsmay I suggest...16:49
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* kgriffs queue awesome theme song16:49
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alcabrerakgriffs: hahaha16:53
kgriffsrock on16:54
alcabrerabeen listening to mega man music all day. I imagine I could appropriate a theme from there for the title "THE HASKELLNATOR". ;)16:54
mpanettaHaha which one alcabrera? :)16:55
alcabrerampanetta: I'm not sure yet! Maybe Storm Eagle (MMX1) or The Skiver (MMX5). Ooh - Gemini Man (MM2), because symmetry + reflection16:56
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peoplemerge_+1THE HASKELLNATOR17:10
alcabreratype error: No instance for (Num [Char]) arising from a use of ‘+’17:13
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malinikgriffs: ping17:38
malinikgriffs: w.r.t default value when message ttl is not specified17:39
maliniI was wondering if we should make it another config option, instead of using the max_ttk17:40
maliniLets say the vendor has max_ttl configured to 2 weeks17:40
malinithe message will inadvertently stay in storage for too long17:40
kgriffsthat is a good point. I did think about it some, but I'm not sure either if the tradeoffs make sense17:41
kgriffsso, between max and min, max is safer for the user17:41
kgriffsI think safety is most important in this case17:42
kgriffsthat leaves us with either using max or defining a third value17:42
* kgriffs is thinking17:42
maliniWill we have perf impact with too many messages in the storage?17:44
kgriffswe could allow people to set their own defaults. But... what is there incentive to choose something less than max? I guess if the operator is charging them based on a watermark of messages in the queue, they would want to keep that watermark low17:44
kgriffsmalini: oh, depends. :)17:44
kgriffsdepends on how many messages can fit in RAM at a time in the case of Redis and Mongo17:45
kgriffsalso size of the index would go up17:45
kgriffsfor redis flavor I would expect you to keep max fairly low anyway, like 6 hours or less17:46
kgriffsfor durable store (mongo, alternative-durable-thing-whatever-maybe-leveldb) max could be higher since you can swap out to disk.17:46
kgriffshowever, even in that case, you would probably try to keep things fitting in RAM for performance, and just have disk as a durable backup in case your box crashes17:47
malinione of the concerns we had during cloud queues phase was some rogue customer can start using queues as a storage with a 2 week TTL17:49
kgriffsadding a third config option would help manage this. But it also depends on how many clients opt to use the defaults vs. being explicit17:49
kgriffsmalini: well, some people want long TTLs for batch processing17:49
kgriffsso you have to mitigate that with max message size, and give people incentives to voluntarily choose lower TTLs when it isn't really needed17:50
sriram1if we make it visible and not obscure it, perhaps there might be a use for it.17:50
kgriffsbut here with default TTL we are encouraging people to use max TTL17:50
kgriffsso I see your point17:50
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* sriram looks around for sriram117:50
malinisriram: adding to tht, we have sriram2 as well :D17:51
* sriram ducks17:51
malinikgriffs: anyways, just wanted to bring tht up17:52
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malinithe machine malfunctioned..17:52
malinithe clone no way resembles the original, in our case17:53
sriramthe clones have low ttls :P17:53
maliniuh oh..17:53
maliniI am now worried for sriram217:53
sriramkidding :P17:53
kgriffsso.... anyway.... only thing holding me back by defining a third value is adding one more thing the user had to think about17:54
kgriffsbut, I guess saying, "check with your operator for the default value" wouldn't be *that* confusing17:54
* kgriffs is starting to be won over17:54
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malinikgriffs: I get your point - we want to keep the configs as simple as we can17:55
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malininewer options will add a lot of fine print to read17:56
kgriffsyeah, that is a good way to put it.17:56
maliniso tht is settled17:57
kgriffsTBH, I'm not totally sure which way to go17:57
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malinime too :(17:58
kgriffswell, let's think about this17:58
kgriffs(not that we haven't been already, heh)17:59
kgriffsfor a durable store, I as an operator will be more comfortable setting a high max TTL, say 2 weeks17:59
kgriffsnow, if everyone uses default TTLs17:59
kgriffsthen all messages are living 2 weeks unless they are manually deleted17:59
kgriffsso, if you are using the queue for task distribution, messages will usually not live 2 weeks18:00
kgriffssince they will be constantly created and deleted18:00
kgriffsother patterns, like broadcast, I suspect the usual case is the message would be read soon after being created. then it would chill out for 1.9 weeks18:01
kgriffsif the server runs out of RAM, it will page out inactive parts of the collection18:01
kgriffsso, those "chilled" messages would page out to disk18:02
* malini needs to find a more creative response than yes18:02
kgriffsI think that would work out OK performance-wise18:02
malinijust tht oz_akan_ would not like any more messages than is needed in his hardware18:02
kgriffsexcept for the case of the index... depending on how the DB implements their index, it may not be able to page out the references to the cold messages18:03
sriramperhaps we can set it per flavor?18:03
srirambut that makes it even more complicated. :/18:04
kgriffssriram: I think the min and max limits should be set per flavor, regardless18:04
sriramYes, what i meant was different values of default per flavor.18:04
srirambut thats even more state to maintain, and makes things needlessly complicated.18:04
kgriffsright, we would do that as well. but that is assuming we are going to introduce a separate default config option in the first place18:05
sriramjust thinking ahead :P18:05
kgriffsidk, I think it may be OK to introduce a new option18:05
kgriffsit is more fine print, but it isn't hard to understand either18:05
maliniwish we can just toss a coin ^o)18:05
kgriffsok, what is everyone's vote?18:06
* sriram tosses a coin18:06
sriramWhat?? It lands on edge :P18:06
* sriram (un)possible18:06
* sriram shuts up18:06
kgriffs#startvote Introduce new default TTL and grace config options? Yes, No, Abstain18:06
* kgriffs is lazy and doesn't want to start a meeting18:07
sriram#vote Yes18:07
sriramNow, everyone knows my opinion :P18:07
malini#vote Yes18:07
alcabrera#vote Yes18:07
malinisriram rigged the vote ;)18:07
* sriram evil grin18:07
sriramwe need flaper87|afk's opinion as well.18:09
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kgriffs#vote Yes18:09
kgriffsok, cool then18:10
kgriffsI guess I will go do that18:10
kgriffsbut first... me need food18:10
* sriram sends poptarts18:10
sriramin a queue18:10
sriramwhich can actually be POPed18:11
malinidoes it have a TTL set?18:11
sriram14 days of food :P18:11
alcabreraall food has a TTL -- except frozen burritos. those things will outlive time18:14
kgriffsand twinkies18:15
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mpanettaalcabrera: Gemini Man FTW :P18:42
alcabrerampanetta: I learned of "The Megas" today and I've been listening to *all* their music.18:44
mpanettaWho are they?18:44
alcabreraThey are a rock-vocal group that do remixes of Mega Man music18:44
alcabrerathey have a 2-album collection that focuses on Megaman 318:44
alcabreraHistory Repeating: Blue and History Repeating: Red18:44
alcabreraso good18:44
alcabrerahere's my favorite song so far: Can't Stop the Top -
mpanettaOh cool logo18:47
alcabreraI want the shirt so badly, mpanetta: :D18:48
mpanettaOh this was for Top Mans stage yeah?18:48
mpanettaOh sweet shirt!18:48
mpanettaThey have a show in Orlando on Aug 7th heh18:49
alcabreraI'll listen from over here, all digital like. I can't handle concerts, but super cool that they tour.18:49
mpanettaIve only been to one concert in my life lol18:50
alcabrerasame here18:50
mpanettaUnless you consider the times I briefly visited the concert rooms at dragoncon18:50
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kgriffssomething I learned today19:19
kgriffsok, now I am going to go get food for realz19:19
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openstackgerritMalini Kamalambal proposed a change to openstack/marconi: Remove check queue exists endpoint
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peoplemergenothing but python trouble today :/ py26 and py33 are bust but at least I can test my code on py27.  This is probably a hole I dug myself into with trusty.  Gonna have lunch and code up some msgpack on py27.20:28
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malinikgriffs|afk: when you get a chance, can you take  look at this ? It is failing  with falcon import errors20:45
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peoplemergeah I guess I'm not the only one with falcon import errors22:49
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openstackgerritKurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/marconi: feat(v1.1): Default TTL and grace values
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