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| krotscheck | #startmeeting storyboard | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 19 15:01:25 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:01 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck, hi | 15:01 |
| krotscheck | Anyone recovered/back from Atlanta yet? | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Hey there! | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | There was a lot of interest in storyboard at the summit, but I’m not certain everyone’s gotten their meeting agenda updated yet. | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | I know that gothicmindfood is stuck in traffic. | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | And ttx might be on a plane. | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | Anyway | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | #topic Atlanta Summit | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Atlanta Summit (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:03 | |
| krotscheck | So given that right now it’s just the two of us, let me just give you a recap. | 15:03 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ok | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | Firstly, the etherpad is a good lineup of what Infra wants/needs to start moving over. | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | In addition, we did a bunch of sit-down-and-talk-to-users UX testing, which resulted in the videos: | 15:04 |
| krotscheck | https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6LxnAZQ6G4GUlQxRFNOZlJDa3c&usp=sharing | 15:04 |
| krotscheck | I’m still working through this, but the issues raised fall into basically three categories: | 15:04 |
| krotscheck | 1- issues with things we’ve already built. | 15:04 |
| krotscheck | 2- issues with things that infra needs and we’re going to build shortly. | 15:04 |
| krotscheck | 3- Feature requests and things that we’ll build in the future, but may change by the time we get around to them. | 15:04 |
| ttx | AAH! | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | It’s a ttx! | 15:05 |
| ttx | sorry, was distracted bu another long-running meeting | 15:05 |
| ttx | by* | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | No worries :) | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | So, anyway. | 15:05 |
| jeblair | o/ | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | So re: UX sessions, I think it makes sense to actually address the issues with things that we’ve already build. Case and point, the new-story modal received a lot of criticism and needs a little love. | 15:06 |
| krotscheck | *built | 15:06 |
| jeblair | this session was also very informative wrt to storyboard needs: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-cross-project-tracking-features | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Thanks | 15:07 |
| ttx | krotscheck: would be interested to see your summary of the "future issues" too, any chance you could summarize in an email (maybe pointing to segments of videos) sometimes this week ? | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Absolutely. | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | That folder I linked actually contains all my notes as I’m working through it. | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | Future issues: For instance, we got a LOT of good feedback from the UX team. | 15:08 |
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| krotscheck | I’ll send a summary out to openstack-dev methinks. | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | Last item from the Atlanta summit is that I inquired with jeblair about what the process is to get another +2 on storyboard, and subsequently nominated NikitaKonovalov for that. | 15:09 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: clarification: you asked me to consider nominating NikitaKonovalov | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | Ah, right | 15:10 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: thanks | 15:10 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I've been considering NikitaKonovalov +1s as a second +2 when the patch was from krotscheck for some time now | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | So moving forward on that, I assume that you two will be discussing the matter out-of-band? | 15:11 |
| jeblair | i should be able to look into that this week | 15:11 |
| ttx | krotscheck: (until you told me to stop doing that) | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Hey, that wasn’t me :). | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | But anyway | 15:11 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: actually the process is that we do it publicly | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: openstack-dev? | 15:11 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: yes | 15:11 |
| ttx | maybe -infra | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | kk | 15:11 |
| ttx | ok | 15:11 |
| ttx | OK, quick feedback from me on summit | 15:12 |
| krotscheck | Go for it. | 15:12 |
| ttx | the "Tracking incoming features" workshop definitely gave StoryBoard some publicity | 15:13 |
| ttx | There is a good overview of the overarching mission on the etherpad | 15:13 |
| ttx | In the "Problem(s) we are trying to solve" section | 15:13 |
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| ttx | even if that's the goal across the range of tools we are using | 15:14 |
| ttx | (i.e. including -specs repos) | 15:14 |
| * SergeyLukjanov lurking - going to the atlanta zoo | 15:14 | |
| ttx | After that session (and the StoryBoard one) a lot of projects just proposed dogfooding StoryBoard early | 15:14 |
| krotscheck | Really? | 15:14 |
| jeblair | yes, lots | 15:14 |
| krotscheck | Huhn. | 15:14 |
| ttx | As in, almost all of them. | 15:14 |
| ttx | I pushed back a bit -- I think it's waaaay not ready for them | 15:15 |
| ttx | but there sure is a lot of enthusiasm | 15:15 |
| jeblair | it came up in this one too: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-summit-qa-policy | 15:15 |
| jeblair | and this one: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-summit-grenade | 15:15 |
| jeblair | (just off the top of my head) | 15:15 |
| ttx | I think the good targets for early dogfooding are the projects that have a simple release process (like only a master branch) | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | I got a lot of interest from devs wanting to be involved as well, and I’m advising the vinz team on toolchain. | 15:16 |
| ttx | like Infra | 15:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | if that matters, I've sent one of our deployment engineeres to file a story for nodepool in storyboard | 15:16 |
| jeblair | ttx: yes, i discouraged it as well | 15:16 |
| ttx | because everything else will require pretty advanced features | 15:16 |
| ttx | (from a release management pov) | 15:16 |
| jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: cool, thanks | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | So the pressure’s on. | 15:17 |
| ttx | yes! I generally can help more during the first half of the cycle, so I plan to do just that | 15:17 |
| krotscheck | Works for me. | 15:17 |
| ttx | but then, I also increased travel / conferences so I prefer not to promise too much | 15:18 |
| ttx | anyway, that was my feedback | 15:18 |
| krotscheck | Got it. Anything from jeblair? | 15:18 |
| krotscheck | (Do you have a summit summary?) | 15:18 |
| jeblair | that covers it | 15:18 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so just to reiterate: | 15:18 |
| krotscheck | 1- Good list of requirements from design session | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | 2- needs-to-be-filtered list from UX testing. | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | 3- Lots of exposure. | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | 4- Lots of interest, people are chomping at the bit. | 15:19 |
| ttx | yep | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | 5- Some of the process design sessions came up with features we haven’t even anticipated. | 15:19 |
| krotscheck | Alright, everyone ok with moving on to Ongoing work? | 15:20 |
| ttx | +1 | 15:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | sure | 15:20 |
| krotscheck | #topic Ongoing work | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:20 | |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov? What’ve you been working on? | 15:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've spent some time on creating small changes to fix some small issues, misspellings, etc | 15:21 |
| NikitaKonovalov | then the change with ProjectGroups api is wating for reviews | 15:21 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so I've got the controllers work like I wanted | 15:22 |
| krotscheck | Nice. I saw some of your comments in pecanpy, did you get the answers you needed there? | 15:22 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: I found an answer after a closer look at pecan's source | 15:22 |
| krotscheck | Even better. | 15:23 |
| NikitaKonovalov | one more thing is change for filtering timeline event in UI https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93563/ | 15:23 |
| krotscheck | Got it, will look at that. | 15:23 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and now I'm working on refresh tokens as we discussed before the summit | 15:23 |
| NikitaKonovalov | the change will come soon I think | 15:24 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so this is my update | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Excellent. | 15:24 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and I've been testing your dashboard changes locally to see how it works | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | Any feedback? | 15:25 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and it works! | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | Yay things that work! | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | As for myself, I was at the summit last week. I have a bunch of outstanding patches regarding the dashboard and/or minor UI tweaks in various locations, including vertically-expanding text areas and typeahead stuff. | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | Oh, and I think I put priority in there as well. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | Simple, stupid priority. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | So that’s my update. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | #topic Upcoming work | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upcoming work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:27 | |
| krotscheck | LOTS OF IT | 15:27 |
| krotscheck | I think that about sums it up :) | 15:27 |
| krotscheck | Of the 1.1 list, I think the one that’ll be the most contentious is subscription. | 15:28 |
| ttx | krotscheck: how do you think we should track it ? We have an etherpad on one side, and some stories on the other | 15:28 |
| ttx | file them all and use the dumb prio ? | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Well, there’s two things we need; milestone targeting and priority. | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | We’ve got priority (more or less) | 15:29 |
| jeblair | we also are about to have an infra-specs repo -- obviously we sholudn't use it to track small things, but major changes should probably go through it. | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | We don’t have milestone yet, so I’m thinking labeling the stories as [1.1] would work. | 15:29 |
| jeblair | we could consider filing a spec that covers each MVP... | 15:29 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: ++ filing stories and labeling | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: MVP-per-spec rather than MPV-per-feature? I feel that having several features in one spec will be difficult to approve. | 15:31 |
| krotscheck | We can try eitehr. | 15:31 |
| ttx | krotscheck: about milestones: one use of the "task lists" thing was to have per-milestone task lists at the project level ("release task lists") | 15:31 |
| ttx | rather than LP-like milestone targeting | 15:31 |
| ttx | so we'll probably have to discuss that a bit | 15:32 |
| ttx | abusing title for now is fien by me | 15:32 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: yeah, i'm trying to not overload the specs repo right now for something fast-moving like storyboard. i actually think we don't really need it for most of the stuff on the juno-infra-storyboard etherpad. but i think we will get to a point where larger/more complicated features should have design review pre-impl. | 15:32 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: The idea of a pre-impl design review makes me want to change my pants. | 15:33 |
| ttx | I'd keep one separate spec for complex stuff (like the ones that have wiki pages at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Design) | 15:33 |
| ttx | but I guess some "basic LP partity" features could be lumped into a single spec | 15:33 |
| ttx | parity* | 15:33 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: you don't want to get agreement about new features from the core team before writing code? | 15:34 |
| ttx | or he does want ? | 15:34 |
| ttx | depends on why he needs to change those pants | 15:34 |
| jeblair | ttx: oh, i guess i'm not sure whether dirty pants are good or bad... | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Wrong kind of pants changing. | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: I like that kind of review. | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: LIKE Like. | 15:34 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: oh, ok. i like clean pants. ;) | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | Righto, so enough about my pants. | 15:35 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so of the upcoming features, I feel that subscriptions is the one that needs a spec. | 15:35 |
| ttx | krotscheck: yes, good example | 15:35 |
| ttx | jeblair: when infra-specs is up we can add it as a project so that we can have tasks targeted to it | 15:36 |
| jeblair | cool, we should have a repo to put in in within a few days | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | Because that’s going to be one of those x-by-x complexity matrixes which will die a horrid death if we don’t implement it properly. | 15:36 |
| jeblair | ttx: ++ | 15:36 |
| ttx | then it's easy to add missing stories | 15:36 |
| ttx | krotscheck: agreed | 15:36 |
| jeblair | and i suppose it will be good to dogfood the specs integration process that we expect other projects to use | 15:37 |
| krotscheck | Feels like Storyboard is the testbed for all things process these days :) | 15:37 |
| ttx | krotscheck: it's also a use case for task lists, but I'm not that sure it's the best way to handle personal interest | 15:37 |
| ttx | maybe makes more sense to keep subscription more.. atomic and not handle it through a personal task list | 15:37 |
| ttx | makes "subscribing to a task list" a thing, too | 15:38 |
| ttx | so yeah, spec++ | 15:38 |
| NikitaKonovalov | +1 for spec from me | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | Exactly | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so we’ll wait on the infra-spec repo and then start discussing the subscription implementation. | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | I suspect that emails will also build off of that. | 15:39 |
| ttx | ack | 15:40 |
| krotscheck | Of the upcoming features in 1.1, are there any others that need a spec? | 15:40 |
| jeblair | the lp data import/transition plan might be a good one | 15:41 |
| * ttx looks | 15:41 | |
| jeblair | possibly emails. | 15:42 |
| ttx | tags ? | 15:42 |
| jeblair | (mostly to hash out when/where/how they should be sent) | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Agreed, especially since we’ll need some kind of a Rainbow table to map LP to SB from gerrit | 15:42 |
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| ttx | program groups could use one, so that we actually agree that we mean the same thing by that :) | 15:43 |
| krotscheck | Though I feel we already had the discussion and realized that we could actually port the launchpad ID’s verbatim. | 15:43 |
| ttx | it's pretty simple from where I stand, but then I'm on the right side of my skull | 15:43 |
| krotscheck | ttx: It gets REALLY complicated as soon as you try to get lists of tasks in stories that belong to projects in a group. | 15:43 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: the lp one may not be 'contentious', but would be a really good thing to have a reference doc on since it's a long process (it will still be relevant a year from now) | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | And subscribing tot hem. | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Makes sense. | 15:44 |
| ttx | krotscheck: yeah.. just wondering if at this point (since work has started on that) it's not easier to just see the POC rather than work on design spec | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | Ok, items that needs specs: Subscription, Emails, LP Migration | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Any thoughts on that? | 15:45 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: (What ttx just said) | 15:45 |
| ttx | krotscheck: so no Tags, ProjectGroups ? | 15:45 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I just wanted to add ProjectGroups | 15:45 |
| ttx | (for tags, I think the 1.1 tags can be very simple so no spec needed) | 15:46 |
| ttx | once we try to encourage the use of certain tags (like "official tags") then it gets hairier, but we don't really need that now | 15:46 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Wait, don’t you have a design doc for that? | 15:46 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ttx: agree tags should be pretty straightforward | 15:46 |
| ttx | krotscheck: oooh! I have! | 15:47 |
| krotscheck | Linky? | 15:47 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Story_Tags | 15:47 |
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| krotscheck | Right, I remember this. | 15:48 |
| ttx | funny, I didn't :) | 15:48 |
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| krotscheck | The idea being that eventually, even things like priority, milestone, assignee, etc are tags. | 15:48 |
| ttx | anyway, it could use some iteration and approval, certainly | 15:48 |
| ttx | so I can add it as proper spec when infra-specs is a thing | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | Yeah, let’s do that. | 15:49 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so let’s add tags to the list of specs we want to discuss. | 15:49 |
| krotscheck | #action Once infra-specs is up, add discussion specs for subscriptions, email, tags, and LP migration | 15:49 |
| ttx | krotscheck: OK, so I'll take tags | 15:49 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I guess ProjectGroups will go under LP migrations spec | 15:49 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Got it. I’ll take subscriptions. | 15:50 |
| *** rm_work is now known as rm_work|away | 15:50 | |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Well, ttx mentioned that actually just using what you’ve built for now might be best. | 15:50 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: no, it goes under the "let's implement it and then do a v2 if needed" | 15:50 |
| krotscheck | I’m open for discussion on that. | 15:50 |
| ttx | I'm fine with writing a spec for it... all depends how advanced you are in impl | 15:50 |
| NikitaKonovalov | righ now the groups can be loaded along with project and superusers can modify them through API (no UI support) | 15:52 |
| ttx | so far we did a "let's look at what was done and complain afterwards" approach -- I agree it doesn't really scale but we can do it one more time !) | 15:52 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ttx: agree | 15:52 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: if a v2 is needed, then I'll spec it | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | Alright, so moving forward on proejct groups and then whining about it later. | 15:53 |
| ttx | +1 | 15:53 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ok | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | That’s it for the agenda, I’ll promise to come up with something more substantial next week. | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | #topic Open Discussion | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:54 | |
| krotscheck | Incidentally, if any of you have 3 hours, go watch the videos. They’re VERY interesting. | 15:54 |
| * krotscheck apologizes because he forgot to hit record when David Lyle was doing his thing. | 15:54 | |
| krotscheck | Anything else? | 15:55 |
| NikitaKonovalov | One small question we have already discussed but still, Storyboard or StoryBorad? | 15:55 |
| krotscheck | Ah, right | 15:55 |
| ttx | StoryBorat! | 15:55 |
| jeblair | :) | 15:55 |
| * krotscheck files that away for april fools. | 15:56 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | I mean capital B in the middle or ont? | 15:56 |
| NikitaKonovalov | not | 15:56 |
| ttx | So far it's been StoryBoard, but I don't really care that much | 15:56 |
| jeblair | i think at the meetup we said capital b | 15:56 |
| ttx | whoever really cares can decide | 15:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes we did | 15:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: you cared then. :) | 15:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes, but just can't remember why :) | 15:57 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ok, capital B then | 15:57 |
| krotscheck | Oh man, that’s going to bug me forever. | 15:57 |
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| krotscheck | But sure, capital B | 15:58 |
| krotscheck | Anything else? | 15:58 |
| ttx | nope | 15:58 |
| jeblair | nak | 15:58 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 19 15:59:00 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-05-19-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-05-19-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-05-19-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
| krotscheck | Allllrightey. | 15:59 |
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