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| s1rp | o/ | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| thomasem | o/ | 15:00 |
| danpb | #startmeeting libvirt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 20 15:00:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is danpb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'libvirt' | 15:00 |
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| * kashyap waves hi as a bug traiger | 15:00 | |
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| apmelton | o/ | 15:00 |
| danpb | #topic Intro | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Intro (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:00 | |
| vladikr | o/ | 15:01 |
| danpb | Hi folks, welcome to the first libvirt sub-team meeting ! | 15:01 |
| thomasem | hey hey! | 15:01 |
| dirk | hurray! | 15:01 |
| s1rp | howdy! | 15:01 |
| sahid | :) | 15:01 |
| * bauzas lurking... | 15:01 | |
| danpb | agenda / place for taking live notes is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-libvirt-meeting-agenda | 15:01 |
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| thomasem | Okay cool | 15:02 |
| danpb | just so that we know each other, would folks just introduce their real name and area of interest | 15:02 |
| s1rp | Rick Harris, improving LXC support in nova-libvirt | 15:03 |
| danpb | I'm Daniel Berrange, @ Red Hat, upstream libvirt maintainer & interested in anything libvirt/kvm/lxc related in nova | 15:03 |
| apmelton | Andrew Melton, LXC in nova-libvirt | 15:03 |
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| BobBall | Bob Ball @ Citrix, interested in xen | 15:03 |
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| dirk | Dirk Mueller @ SUSE, working with BobBall on Xen/libvirt now | 15:03 |
| thomasem | I'm Thomas Maddox, @ Rackspace, interested in LibvirtLXC and nova-libvirt primarily | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | Sylvain Bauza @Red Hat, working on Scheduling aspects for HA, including libvirt capabilities | 15:03 |
| vladikr | I'm Vladik Romanovsky @ eNovance, interested in libvirt/kvm/lxc in Nova | 15:04 |
| hallyn | Serge Hallyn @ ubuntu, packaging libvirt and qemu | 15:04 |
| berendt | Christian Berendt @ B1 Systems, primary interested in libvirt/xen | 15:04 |
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| nelsnelson | Nels Nelson @ Rackspace, security testing for libvirt-lxc applications | 15:04 |
| thimble | Andre Naehring @ B1 Systems, interested in libvirt/xen | 15:04 |
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| ndipanov | are we doing names now? | 15:04 |
| danpb | ndipanov: yep, just quickly introducing ourselves | 15:05 |
| ndipanov | k\ | 15:05 |
| danpb | ok, seems like we have critical mass of attendees for the topics in the agenda at least | 15:05 |
| ndipanov | Nikola Dipanov - Red Hat engineer working on libvirt (among other things) - also Nova core reviewer | 15:05 |
| kashyap | I'm Kashyap Chamarthy, working for Red Hat, upstream tester for KVM/QEMU based virt-stack and OpenStack RDO community engineer. | 15:05 |
| gcb | I'm ChangBo Guo @easystack interested in libvirt/kvm | 15:06 |
| ndipanov | s/libvirt/libvirt driver in my previous intro | 15:06 |
| sahid | Sahid Orentino Ferdjaoui - Cloudwatt interested in libvirt/kvm | 15:06 |
| danpb | #topic Suitability of meeting time | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Suitability of meeting time (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:06 | |
| thomasem | This time actually works great for me. | 15:07 |
| dirk | +1 | 15:07 |
| s1rp | ++, love this time | 15:07 |
| danpb | I picked this time slot to suit myself primarily :-) is this slot practical for people ongoing | 15:07 |
| BobBall | +1 | 15:07 |
| vladikr | +1 | 15:07 |
| sahid | +1 | 15:07 |
| berendt | +1 | 15:07 |
| apmelton | +1 | 15:07 |
| ndipanov | +1 | 15:07 |
| gcb | +1 | 15:07 |
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| danpb | hehe, well that's nice to see | 15:07 |
| thomasem | haha | 15:07 |
| bauzas | there is a conflict with Nova scheduler meeting, so we need to discuss about a possible another stop for Gantt meetings | 15:07 |
| BobBall | +2 +A? | 15:07 |
| thimble | +1 | 15:07 |
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| kashyap | Since I'm in a slightly weird tz than CET/EST/PST, /me is fine w/ 20:30 meeting once a week :-) | 15:08 |
| danpb | do people think there is value in alternating timeslot every two weeks ? eg have a Tuesday @0900 UTC timeslot | 15:08 |
| danpb | this would exclude most of the US, but make it easier for China/India/Japan | 15:08 |
| * danpb notes that the people who would care about the alternate time probably aren't here to answer .... :-( | 15:09 | |
| BobBall | I'd agree with alternate time slots - I think it works well for nova - although they go the other way with an evening slot that I can't typically attend | 15:09 |
| kashyap | Maybe start w/ once a month, if there's more folks from that region possibly could alternate. But that's just me | 15:09 |
| s1rp | should we put that to a vote? | 15:09 |
| danpb | perhaps we should just send another message to openstack-dev to ask if there is demand for an alternate slot | 15:10 |
| ndipanov | I'm fine with both - but danpb mentioned we'd be willing to do it on the email - let\s see if someone wants it first maybe | 15:10 |
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| kashyap | Yep | 15:10 |
| berendt | danpb: +1 | 15:10 |
| bauzas | danpb: I'm fine with the alternate timeslot, great to see it | 15:11 |
| danpb | ok, so lets stick with this time slot for now, and check demand from mailing list before adding a 2nd option | 15:11 |
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| thomasem | sounds good to me | 15:12 |
| danpb | moving swiftly onto the more interesting items.... | 15:12 |
| danpb | #topic HV driver support requirements | 15:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "HV driver support requirements (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:12 | |
| danpb | looking at the mess we made of Xen and LXC support in Icehouse, it occurred to me that we don't have a clear idea of what nova requires from a libvirt driver | 15:13 |
| danpb | so I've started trying to clarify this on this page so we can identify gaps https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LibvirtDriverSupportMatrix | 15:13 |
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| vishy | o/ | 15:13 |
| danpb | besides APIs, i'm looking to add list of constants used with the APIs, and list of guest configuration options | 15:14 |
| danpb | if anyone wants to help out with fleshing out this page, it'd be appreciated | 15:14 |
| s1rp | awesome, can we do this programmatically? | 15:14 |
| danpb | s1rp: if by programmatically you mean 'grep' then yes :-) | 15:15 |
| s1rp | danpb: yes exactly :) | 15:15 |
| apmelton | danpb: how about flags as well. I know lxc doesn't support starting paused | 15:15 |
| danpb | apmelton: yeah that's what i mean by constants actually | 15:15 |
| apmelton | gotcha | 15:15 |
| directxman12 | apmelton: yeah, that's a important bit | 15:15 |
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| danpb | at least that's the main bit which hurt us in Icehouse | 15:16 |
| danpb | so lets move onto Xen... | 15:16 |
| BobBall | I wonder if some of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HypervisorSupportMatrix should be moved into it's own libvirt page | 15:16 |
| directxman12 | BobBall: I was thinking that, and wondering if libvirt actually had anything similar | 15:17 |
| directxman12 | if not, it really should | 15:17 |
| BobBall | well - 4 of the columns in that table are libvirt | 15:17 |
| danpb | BobBall: hmm, i can see it both values | 15:17 |
| danpb | it is valuable to have a complete picture of all drivers in one page | 15:17 |
| danpb | if you just had a single Libvirt column, then you'd have to then look at a separate libvirt page to find out what your specific libvirt HV supported | 15:18 |
| s1rp | the libvirt columns should be next to each other to make parity easier to check | 15:18 |
| BobBall | I agree - just raising it as an option | 15:18 |
| berendt | s1rp: +1 | 15:18 |
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| danpb | s1rp: yeah, we could move the Xen column over | 15:18 |
| thomasem | +1 | 15:18 |
| BobBall | Or have a different layout of the table - for example a libvirt column with the default being KVM then Q/X/L in the column as well if supported by the other drivers | 15:19 |
| danpb | BobBall: i think we could keep separate columns for now - unless the number of libvirt drivers really grows alot | 15:20 |
| danpb | lets talk Xen now though | 15:20 |
| danpb | #topic Xen Driver Support | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Xen Driver Support (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:20 | |
| BobBall | OK | 15:20 |
| danpb | berendt: this was your agenda item... | 15:21 |
| berendt | just noted this entry. i think there are some more interested parties | 15:21 |
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| berendt | we need libvirt/xen working and we would like to help building a CI environment | 15:22 |
| BobBall | Well I'm definitely an interested party - but don't have an update to share this week really | 15:22 |
| dirk | I'm also interested.. we're looking at setting up a CI for libvirt/xen atm | 15:22 |
| dirk | probably expect some update within ~ 2 weeks | 15:22 |
| danpb | from my POV, I think it is important to keep Xen working well with Libvirt driver in Nova, but I don't have resource to spend on dev/CI myself - | 15:22 |
| dirk | for now it would be great to have this not removed from the code so that we can start looking at the issues | 15:23 |
| danpb | i'd encourage those interested in the CI side of things to try to work together | 15:23 |
| BobBall | Then we should talk berendt :) I've got a 3rd party CI for XenServer set up running in RAX and it should be quite straight forward to update that (possibly to run in a different OS cloud) to run libvirt+xen | 15:23 |
| berendt | dirk: to you plan to involve other parties in the planned CI or is this SUSE cloud specific? | 15:23 |
| berendt | BobBall: yes | 15:24 |
| dirk | berendt: this is unrelated to SUSE Cloud | 15:24 |
| dirk | berendt: it is just about setting up testing with libvirt / xen backend for upstream reviews | 15:24 |
| BobBall | Using SUSE as the OS running devstack + tempest would be interesting though | 15:25 |
| danpb | dirk: unless I've misjudged opinions of other core devs, we're not at imminent risk of being forced to remove Xen support from libvirt driver, but I think they'd like to see CI up & running in the near future | 15:25 |
| dirk | BobBall and I met at the summit and talked a bit about it, and we're now looking into the options | 15:25 |
| BobBall | particularly becasue it'd be another env that devstack doesn't currently get tested in | 15:25 |
| dirk | danpb: great, we're aligned then. | 15:25 |
| berendt | I would suggest to share efforts and to discuss about details in a separate meeting (dirk, BobBall) | 15:25 |
| dirk | danpb: we'd also like to see the CI running so that we don't have to catch regressions downstream | 15:25 |
| BobBall | Agreed berendt - I'm happy to take this offline. | 15:26 |
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| BobBall | well, not offline, but out of here so we can get progress / questions / etc to report here ;) | 15:26 |
| danpb | berendt: agreed, sounds like RAX & SUSE folks can co-ordinate and just report interesting progress as & when needed | 15:26 |
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| berendt | and B1 Systems ;) | 15:26 |
| danpb | opp, yes, sorry :-) | 15:26 |
| BobBall | +1 | 15:26 |
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| dirk | wfm | 15:26 |
| danpb | so, besides CI testing, does anyone have other Xen related issues to raise today | 15:27 |
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| berendt | not at the moment, I think a working CI environment is the primary task | 15:28 |
| danpb | yep, should give us a much better idea of what state we're in | 15:29 |
| danpb | so, lets move onto LXC | 15:30 |
| danpb | #topic LXC Driver Support | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LXC Driver Support (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:30 | |
| danpb | s1rp: do you want to start it off... | 15:30 |
| s1rp | we should clean up the image/disk handling code :) | 15:31 |
| apmelton | +1 | 15:31 |
| s1rp | that was mentioned quite a few times at the summit | 15:31 |
| thomasem | +1 | 15:31 |
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| danpb | assume you're specifically referring to the hacks we do with loopback and/or qemu-nbd for mounting the root filesystem | 15:31 |
| s1rp | the disk-mount code is particularly hard to follow, so i was looking into using libvirts 'block' type to clean it up | 15:32 |
| s1rp | danpb: yeah that's part of it | 15:32 |
| thomasem | s1rp, There was some testing done by sew yesterday specifically regarding that, I think. I don't know if you caught that. | 15:32 |
| thomasem | (it was a bit after hours :) | 15:32 |
| danpb | yep, i added support to libvirt lxc for type=file & type=block filesystems, specifically to let us remove this in nova | 15:32 |
| thomasem | oh neat | 15:33 |
| s1rp | thomasem: yeah, he mentioned that the 'block' type didn't work off the bat w/ uid-mapping enabled | 15:33 |
| s1rp | thomasem: so definitely need to look into why | 15:33 |
| danpb | the problem with the usernamespace uid/gid mapping stuff | 15:33 |
| thomasem | Yeah, and then he mentioned that using the nova-compute method he was able to get it... so let's get more detail on that. | 15:33 |
| thomasem | hmm? | 15:33 |
| danpb | is that we'd have todo a massive chown across the entire filesystem | 15:33 |
| vishy | danpb, s1rp is there any way we could avoid using nbd / lo at all? | 15:34 |
| danpb | since presumably the user uploaded images will actually use uid=0 | 15:34 |
| danpb | and we'll need to remap that to uid=NNN instead, to match whatever uid nova configures for the root user | 15:34 |
| danpb | vishy: not if our filesystems are file based | 15:34 |
| apmelton | danpb: unless users are aware they need to create images owned by NNN | 15:34 |
| danpb | apmelton: feels kind of dirty to require the end user to know that though | 15:35 |
| apmelton | yes it does | 15:35 |
| thomasem | How would we communicate that? Doesn't it pick from a range? | 15:35 |
| * danpb wishes the kernel let you specify a uid/gid mapping for filesystem mounts | 15:35 | |
| apmelton | thomasem: the patch I have right now uses a static mapping | 15:35 |
| thomasem | oh | 15:35 |
| thomasem | okay | 15:35 |
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| danpb | a static mapping is sufficient to protect the kernel from the container processes | 15:35 |
| hallyn | the idea of a stackable fs to do that mapping has been floated for a few years :) noone's done it yet though | 15:36 |
| apmelton | danpb: so the way image import works at rackspace now is a async task in glance, perhaps the import process for lxc images would include chowning that image for the user | 15:36 |
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| danpb | apmelton: yep, if we have a static mapping for all containers, ideally we'd only apply the chown once for image uploaded to glance, or at least to the base image cached by nova | 15:37 |
| danpb | certainly want to try to avoid doing it for every instance start | 15:37 |
| apmelton | danpb: so for the cached image by nova, that would mean each compute would need to chown at least once per image | 15:37 |
| danpb | apmelton: yeah | 15:38 |
| apmelton | danpb: so, I'm going to be pushing up a spec for this today, if we wanna push this discussion onto the spec, that might save time here | 15:38 |
| danpb | hallyn: would it have to be a stacked FS - i can see that would be nice for dealing with bind mount approach | 15:38 |
| apmelton | this discussion being user namespaces in nova | 15:38 |
| danpb | hallyn: but if you're doing the first mount of a block device, feels like it'd be nice to be able to just pass a mapping straight to the kernel at first mount | 15:39 |
| danpb | apmelton: yep, doing it in the spec sounds like a good idea | 15:39 |
| hallyn | danpb: ouch, i'd have to think through it more. it dpeneds on whether we could do it without separate inodes per file | 15:39 |
| hallyn | (per uid-shifted mount, i mean) | 15:40 |
| hallyn | but agreed, a property of a bind mount would be far nicer | 15:40 |
| danpb | hallyn: probably out of scope for us to solve here :-) | 15:41 |
| hallyn | but in scope to motivate here, so cool | 15:41 |
| danpb | apmelton: s1rp: so env variables / init path | 15:42 |
| danpb | i agree it'd be good to be able to set those | 15:43 |
| danpb | env variables i think is actually missing in libvirt itself too | 15:43 |
| s1rp | yeah, think you can hack it by setting them on the init_path | 15:43 |
| apmelton | env variables needs support in libvirt before we can expose it, but init path already works, it's just hard coded in nova | 15:43 |
| danpb | s1rp: hmm, if that works, it is by luck | 15:43 |
| s1rp | but would be nice to support via an 'env' XML tag | 15:44 |
| danpb | but i'm fairly sure libvirt is directly calling execve() so the initpath must be a real path and nothing else | 15:44 |
| thomasem | You're not kidding. Hard coded. | 15:44 |
| s1rp | danpb: haven't confirmed it does, just looked like it'd be possible | 15:44 |
| s1rp | danpb: but either way, we should support env variables, passing args, etc | 15:44 |
| danpb | the way we expose these concepts in nova is probably something we should defer to the general containers sub-team, whose meeting is in 15 mins time | 15:45 |
| s1rp | so we also need a way to collect the return code | 15:45 |
| danpb | since I know this is a wishlist item for Docker guys too | 15:45 |
| s1rp | yeah | 15:45 |
| s1rp | lots of overlap | 15:45 |
| danpb | we should at least maintain a list of what we want specificially for libvirt LXC though | 15:45 |
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| danpb | so those 3 things can we our starting point | 15:46 |
| danpb | so lets talk CI again | 15:46 |
| danpb | i recall from the summit several people wanted to help with CI | 15:47 |
| s1rp | RAX is interested in helping w/ LXC testing | 15:47 |
| danpb | and (IIRC) jog0 said it could be part of the official CI, not a 3rd party CI | 15:47 |
| apmelton | mikal: was also asking for lxc to be in the upstream gate I believe | 15:47 |
| danpb | presumably though we'll need some interested people to make sure the CI stuff is actually working well enough for LXC before infra will be willing to enable it | 15:48 |
| thomasem | yeah | 15:48 |
| thomasem | We have one person working on those tests at the moment | 15:49 |
| danpb | excellent | 15:49 |
| thomasem | I'll catch up with him and see if we can get him coming to these meetings too. | 15:50 |
| danpb | so i suggest we just do same as with Xen CI - RAX and other interested parties just go away and work on it, and report back progress and/or problems as needed | 15:50 |
| thomasem | Might be nice to have a regular update on that sort of progress | 15:50 |
| danpb | yep, again it'd be excellent if we can get something active during Juno | 15:51 |
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| thomasem | I agree | 15:51 |
| thomasem | =] | 15:51 |
| danpb | just time for one last topic.... | 15:51 |
| danpb | #topic Bug Triage | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug Triage (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:52 | |
| kashyap | Hi, currently there are 118 bugs tagged as 'libvirt' | 15:52 |
| apmelton | is there a query I can use to see untriaged bugs? | 15:52 |
| danpb | anyone know what other virt driver sub-teams do for bug triage ? | 15:53 |
| kashyap | apmelton, All "New" Nova bugs are here -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New | 15:53 |
| apmelton | thanks kashyap | 15:53 |
| danpb | ie have they got a good practice we can/should follow | 15:53 |
| kashyap | danpb, VMWare folks did it recenty | 15:53 |
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| kashyap | The process is outlined here -- https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugTriage | 15:53 |
| danpb | ah, i see | 15:53 |
| directxman12 | kashyap: I've been trying to help out with triaging new bugs by following the above posted wiki page | 15:53 |
| kashyap | Only thing is consistently applying it - (a) Go through list of Nova bugs periodically, tag relevant bugs as 'libvirt' appropriately (b) Root-cause analysis/poke reporters for bugs w/ less info, etc. | 15:54 |
| danpb | so I guess the real need here is to have a few people who actually have time to actively do bug triage ... | 15:54 |
| danpb | and to draw attention to high priority issues | 15:55 |
| vladikr | I'll try to help on that | 15:55 |
| kashyap | I can volunteer | 15:55 |
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| kashyap | directxman12, Likewise here too | 15:55 |
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| kashyap | Also a lot of bugs I see are woefully short on info, so I wrote this page and post it as a gentle reminder where appropriate -- https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugFilingRecommendations | 15:55 |
| danpb | so i'd say anyone interested just go off and do it, and if you see high priority bugs that need to be addressed, add them to the agenda for the weekly meeting and/or ping relevant people on irc | 15:56 |
| directxman12 | kashyap: for ones already tagging libvirt, I've been marking them as incomplete and asking for more info if they don't provide version information and logs of some sort | 15:56 |
| kashyap | directxman12, Yep, I just did that discreetly for a few bugs while this meeting is going on | 15:57 |
| danpb | it might be an idea to setup a wiki page describing the things we commonly need for troubleshooting libvirt related problems | 15:57 |
| danpb | eg on fedora we've got this http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_debug_Virtualization_problems | 15:57 |
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| danpb | there's probably something we could do that's a bit more tailored to openstack's needs | 15:58 |
| kashyap | Ah, true, I was about to just post that. | 15:58 |
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| kashyap | Yeah, nova debug/verbose logs enabling | 15:58 |
| danpb | well looks like we're out of time here | 15:58 |
| danpb | thanks to everyone for coming along, and see you all next week at same time ! | 15:58 |
| thomasem | cheers! | 15:58 |
| directxman12 | yeah, occaisonally people post pretty useless logs | 15:58 |
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| vladikr | thanks | 15:59 |
| directxman12 | au revoir | 15:59 |
| s1rp | thanks all! | 15:59 |
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| dirk | thanks! | 15:59 |
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| * s1rp off to the containers meeting | 15:59 | |
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| kashyap | See ya. | 15:59 |
| danpb | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 20 15:59:42 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-05-20-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-05-20-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-05-20-15.00.log.html | 15:59 |
| tzumainn | hi guys! | 16:01 |
| crobertsrh | howdy! | 16:01 |
| clu_ | hi! | 16:01 |
| lsmola | hello | 16:01 |
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| berendt | bye | 16:02 |
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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 20 16:02:14 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:02 |
| david-lyle | Hello everyone, welcome back from the summit | 16:02 |
| akrivoka | hi everyone | 16:02 |
| gary-smith | hello | 16:02 |
| santib | hi guys | 16:02 |
| doug-fish | Hi all | 16:03 |
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| jpich | hello | 16:03 |
| lblanchard | hi all! | 16:04 |
| lcheng | hello | 16:04 |
| johnma | Hello | 16:04 |
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| david-lyle | I feel the key take aways from the summit for Horizon were, we need to improve the user experience and we want to accelerate client side development to accomplish that | 16:04 |
| david-lyle | very much a simplification, of course | 16:05 |
| doug-fish | agreed - that's a clear take away. | 16:05 |
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| lblanchard | +1 | 16:05 |
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| david-lyle | There are other items for Juno that we did not discuss that we need to accomplish like Sahara support | 16:06 |
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| jpich | I think the improving error messages blueprint should definitely be on the roadmap as well | 16:07 |
| crobertsrh | +1 | 16:08 |
| doug-fish | my take-aways are that there is general agreement accessibility is important, internationalization needs some fixes, and we should invest more in our horizon (non tempest) integration testing that is already started. | 16:08 |
| lblanchard | jpich: +1 I will get the work I've done around a suggestion for UI guidelines on Error Messaging up on the wiki today and share | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | doug-fish, agreed, I implicitly lumped the first two into user experience :) | 16:08 |
| doug-fish | :-) sounds good. | 16:09 |
| johnma | for those who werent able to attend the summit, is there a place where we can go to get a summary of the sessions or topics discussed? | 16:09 |
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| clu_ | yes the etherpads | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Horizon | 16:09 |
| jpich | johnma: Looking through the etherpads should be a good initial first step, I think. I'm not sure anything more formal has been posted elsewhere | 16:09 |
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| jpich | though if someone has blogged about the sessions I'd love to read it :) | 16:10 |
| santib | hi guys, about improving the error messages, there are a bunch of cases where we are duplicating logic in horizon in order to show an appropriate error message to the users | 16:10 |
| johnma | jpich: Sure, sounds good. Thanks | 16:10 |
| santib | was there any discussion about that? I mean duplicating logic in horizon | 16:10 |
| doug-fish | santib: are you talking about the fact that Horizon generally doesn't trust messages from the APIs? | 16:11 |
| johnma | Thanks clu_ | 16:11 |
| jpich | santib: I think in this case duplication is appropriate, if it's necessary to provide a better experience for the user | 16:11 |
| santib | not a trust issue but a precision issue | 16:11 |
| santib | jpich: i would agree but what if the logic changed? | 16:12 |
| jpich | I don't think there's been a discussion per se or not recently, it just seems to be the status quo | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | The status code on the response should not change meaning | 16:12 |
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| doug-fish | santib: I don't think we really got into the internal detail about _why_ the messages are they way they are. (at least, not while I was paying attention!) | 16:12 |
| doug-fish | we just agreed they needed improvement | 16:12 |
| santib | we would have to be very careful to make sure that the change in the logic is appropriately propagated | 16:13 |
| david-lyle | santib: I'm still not following which logic? | 16:13 |
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| david-lyle | around showing message 'a' if 401 and 'b' if 409? | 16:14 |
| santib | example....we are making sure that when the user extend a volume, the new size does not exceed the user quota | 16:14 |
| santib | that check is done in horizon and in cinder as well | 16:14 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle: IMO that isn't granular enough...the error codes show only what class of error occurred by any detail the API response might have included about why the error occured in lost | 16:15 |
| santib | what if cinder changes the way they validate that? what if they suddenly decide that users could extend the volume no matter what their quota is | 16:15 |
| doug-fish | at least as far as I've seen | 16:15 |
| santib | in that case we would have to propagate that logic change to horizon | 16:16 |
| doug-fish | It would be ideal in santib 's case that we just trust the API response from cinder to tell us not only that there was a failure, but it happened because of a quota problem | 16:16 |
| santib | exactly | 16:16 |
| clu_ | are the openstack community aware of the error messaging issue...? | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | doug-fish: without localized, user consumable error messages coming back from the services, this is difficult to do | 16:17 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle - agreed | 16:17 |
| david-lyle | because you have to duplicate the laundry list of possible errors | 16:17 |
| david-lyle | this is something we need to work on cross-project | 16:17 |
| doug-fish | I guess my vision (half baked idea?) is that we go API call by API call, sort out which ones really need more detail, work with the API people, and then trust the message that comes back for that API call | 16:18 |
| santib | there are a bunch of cases like this in horizon. We are duplicating logic from nova, cinder, glance, etc. I'm not against it but we need to be sure that we are consistent across modules | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | santib: advanced logic changes like that are going to be reactionary | 16:18 |
| david-lyle | we can monitor the services, but at some point they break us, and we make a fix | 16:18 |
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| david-lyle | hazard of being at the top of the stack | 16:18 |
| doug-fish | Maybe we can even get certain well defined error scenarios into tempest? | 16:19 |
| doug-fish | to make sure when we create certain failures we get a reliable message back? | 16:19 |
| doug-fish | under penalty of not passing gate! | 16:19 |
| david-lyle | once we have integration tests running in tempest yes, that would be a great use of them | 16:19 |
| santib | agree | 16:19 |
| doug-fish | Not sure we even need to test that through horizon | 16:19 |
| david-lyle | which is why that's a high priority | 16:20 |
| doug-fish | we could set that up with the related API calls | 16:20 |
| doug-fish | I though the Horizon integration tests could/would never be in Tempest? | 16:20 |
| jpich | The long term goal is to merge them back | 16:21 |
| jpich | for now we're trying to figure them out and make sure they're stable | 16:21 |
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| jpich | then the feedback from the Tempest folks was that they'd be open to considering it | 16:21 |
| jpich | also we could have a separate job for the horizon integration tests that runs on all commits, possibly - but that's too be discussed when we have a larger, well honed test suite | 16:22 |
| doug-fish | yeah - that 2nd thing makes more sense to me | 16:22 |
| jpich | People interested in writing integration tests, feel free to add yourself to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/Testing/UI#Test_areas_breakdown and start submitting patches :-) | 16:22 |
| david-lyle | we are in a unique position to test integration of all the clients, which IMO adds a lot of value across the stack | 16:23 |
| doug-fish | the problem with putting UI tests in Tempest is that when the UI changes, the tests need to as well. I'm not sure we can ever put out changes to the UI that would require an update to the Tempest tests | 16:23 |
| doug-fish | so we should all work on the stuff jpich linked! | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | how those integration tests get wired into the gate, is TBD | 16:23 |
| doug-fish | david-lyle do you think it will happen? | 16:23 |
| jpich | doug-fish: the page object pattern helps a lot with this. The "page" would still live in Horizon but the tests themselves could move into Tempest | 16:23 |
| jpich | doug-fish: That's certainly one of my goals :) | 16:24 |
| doug-fish | jpich ah interesting. Yeah, I could see that. | 16:24 |
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| david-lyle | openstack does like CI testing, so I think there's a very good chance, if we approach it right | 16:25 |
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| david-lyle | This week I will be going through the blueprints to create a tentative release plan for Juno. So if there are items that you plan to work on, please assign yourself or ask a core to assign you | 16:27 |
| david-lyle | I don't add many items that don't have an assignee, due to odds of it getting done are low | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | we did have one agenda topic | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | #topic Drop Django 1.4 support? (kspear, in absentia) | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Drop Django 1.4 support? (kspear, in absentia) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:29 | |
| david-lyle | Icehouse is the last release supported by Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | This might mean less resistance to dropping Django 1.4 support in Juno. | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | It would be good to reach a consensus at the meeting and then canvas the mailing lists for support. | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | was the text included | 16:30 |
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| jpich | Is Django 1.4 causing problems? | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | there are branches where we check for 1.5 | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | and greater | 16:31 |
| jpich | My thinking would be that since it's supported upstream as a LTS it makes sense to try and keep supporting it for Horizon too, unless it's causing huge issues | 16:31 |
| jpich | ( https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/release-process/#long-term-support-lts-releases ) | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | the move to 1.6 was slowed by methods disappearing between 1.4 and 1.6 | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | there are issues, not overwhelming issues | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | since we won't be able to transition to 1.7 until the K cycle, I am ok with keeping 1.4 until that point | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.7/ | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | 1.7 requires python >= 2.7 | 16:33 |
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| doug-fish | Dropping 1.4 support at K seems reasonable to me. Is there some way that we share that plan so people can let us know if its going to cause a problem? | 16:34 |
| doug-fish | oh nevermind - canvas the mailing lists | 16:36 |
| doug-fish | good plan. | 16:36 |
| david-lyle | like all things, we'll need to ping the mailing list | 16:36 |
| jpich | Sounds reasonable to me | 16:37 |
| jpich | I dropped an email to Kieran to see if he could summarise his concerns about Django 1.4 on the list | 16:37 |
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| david-lyle | jpich, thanks | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | we'll come back to this next week then | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | #topic Open Discussion | 16:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:38 | |
| jpich | Np | 16:38 |
| tzumainn | I had a question - would people be interesting in looking at the tuskar-ui code to see if there are any divergences from the proper horizon way of doing things? | 16:38 |
| tzumainn | er "interested" | 16:38 |
| clu_ | tzumainn: sure! | 16:39 |
| tzumainn | that would be awesome : ) Is there any sort of guidance the tuskar-ui folks could provide to help with that? | 16:39 |
| jpich | Ideally we should all get familiar with the code well ahead of it merging later, make the process as painless as possible :) | 16:39 |
| tzumainn | jpich, lol, yeah, I admit that fear was lurking in the back of my mind | 16:40 |
| tzumainn | we also do a few things slightly differently - off the top of my head, we use mock instead of mox for tests, and we have a @handle_errors decorator for our api calls | 16:40 |
| jpich | Does it give helpful error messages by default? | 16:40 |
| jpich | (helpful as in specific) | 16:41 |
| tzumainn | I am not entirely sure, but it does reduce code duplication | 16:41 |
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| jpich | Sounds like something we might want to borrow from you! | 16:42 |
| tzumainn | and doing it at the level of the api call means that it's less likely that potential error cases are less likely to get missed when writing the view code | 16:42 |
| lsmola | mock is the new recommended test framework right? | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | lsmola, that sounds correct | 16:42 |
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| jpich | We should cross-pollinate solutions and synergise our efforts across repo boundaries (<-- do I win the bingo?) | 16:43 |
| tzumainn | but yeah, overall, I'd be interested in ways to help making sure that tuskar-ui converges toward horizon rather than away | 16:43 |
| tzumainn | lol | 16:43 |
| tzumainn | almost, except my card had 'synergize' instead of 'synergise' | 16:43 |
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| david-lyle | I think support to mock frameworks may be a requirement going forward | 16:44 |
| jpich | I'm not clear on whether the mock vs mox3 debate was ever resolved but both sound good to me (I prefer mock personally) - don't think that'll be a problem | 16:44 |
| david-lyle | s/to/two | 16:45 |
| jpich | ah! | 16:46 |
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| david-lyle | any thing else, we just spent a week together, so ending early is just fine :) | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | going twice... | 16:49 |
| david-lyle | Have a great week everyone. See you here next week. | 16:50 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:50 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 20 16:50:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:50 |
| jpich | Bye! | 16:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-05-20-16.02.html | 16:50 |
| tzumainn | thanks all! | 16:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-05-20-16.02.txt | 16:50 |
| santib | bye | 16:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-05-20-16.02.log.html | 16:50 |
| lblanchard | see you all! | 16:51 |
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| lsmola | thank you, goodbye everyone | 16:51 |
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| pballand | hi everyone | 17:02 |
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| pballand | anyone around for congress? | 17:02 |
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| skn_ | Is this the Congress meeting? | 17:03 |
| pballand | yes, starting in one min | 17:03 |
| skn_ | Great. This is Susanta from Symantec | 17:04 |
| pballand | (thinrichs started in wrong room) | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 20 17:04:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:04 |
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| pballand | Hi skn_ ! | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | Glad to see people from the summit joining us! | 17:04 |
| skn_ | Hi Peter and Tim | 17:04 |
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| sarob | I'm here | 17:05 |
| pballand | I heard from Rajdeep that he had a conflict and can’t meet this week | 17:05 |
| pballand | Hi sarob ! | 17:05 |
| sarob | pballand: hey | 17:05 |
| pballand | kudva also sends his regrets for this meeting | 17:05 |
| skn_ | Hi peter, did you send out the group mail to share everyone’s id? | 17:06 |
| pballand | I have not yet - I was waiting for one more reply, but will send out after this meeting | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | I think we're all still recovering from the summit. | 17:06 |
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| skn_ | OK, great. | 17:06 |
| skn_ | True | 17:06 |
| sarob | thinrichs: almost recovered | 17:07 |
| thinrichs | sarob,skn: :) | 17:07 |
| sarob | thinrichs: Friday did me in | 17:07 |
| skn_ | Who’s sarob? | 17:07 |
| thinrichs | sarob: It was action packed for me too. | 17:07 |
| sarob | Me | 17:08 |
| sarob | Sean roberts yahoo devant | 17:08 |
| skn_ | Oh, ok, got it. | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | Let's quickly go over action items from last week. | 17:08 |
| skn_ | Sorry Sean, didn’t know your IRC id | 17:08 |
| sarob | Np ;) | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep was productive: he moved the datasources dir and wrote some unit tests. | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | Here are his unit tests from the data drivers. | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94123/ | 17:09 |
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| thinrichs | The unit tests basically have some JSON objects and run the translator code on them to get the tables that Congress uses. | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Let us know if any of you have comments, and we'll make sure rajdeep gets them. | 17:10 |
| pballand | I had 2 action items from the conference: | 17:10 |
| pballand | 1 - email the list of participants who wanted to share contact info | 17:11 |
| pballand | 2 - set up a blueprint process similar to nova-spec | 17:11 |
| pballand | on 1, I am going to send out the list after the meeting | 17:11 |
| sarob | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-congress | 17:11 |
| pballand | sarob: thanks | 17:12 |
| pballand | for 2: I wanted to propose placing the blueprints in the same tree as the source for now | 17:12 |
| sarob | Yup | 17:12 |
| skn_ | Thanks for the etherpad | 17:12 |
| skn_ | Yes | 17:12 |
| pballand | considerations: we are a very small project, so managing multiple projets seems overkill | 17:12 |
| sarob | The spec process nova and other are following | 17:12 |
| pballand | on the other side, confusing specs and src may be confusing | 17:13 |
| pballand | thoughts? | 17:13 |
| sarob | Hey keep the specs as a separate repo | 17:13 |
| sarob | Spell chk is killing me | 17:13 |
| sarob | #link https://github.com/openstack/nova-specs | 17:13 |
| pballand | sarob: any particular reason (other than following what nova does)? | 17:14 |
| sarob | I guess it's to keep the rst and running of tox | 17:14 |
| sarob | As simple as possible | 17:14 |
| sarob | I can ask Michael still why extra repo | 17:15 |
| pballand | sarob: so we would have stackforge/congress and stackforge/congress-spec ? | 17:15 |
| sarob | I assumed was to limit pollution | 17:15 |
| sarob | Yup | 17:15 |
| sarob | My understanding | 17:15 |
| pballand | I would appreciate that - I’d prefer to keep the specs together (in a specs subidr) | 17:15 |
| sarob | Start with subdir is easy to move later | 17:16 |
| skn_ | I thought it would be a subdir | 17:16 |
| skn_ | Yeah | 17:16 |
| sarob | In case there's some higher reasoning | 17:16 |
| pballand | agreed, we can always break out to new repo later | 17:16 |
| pballand | will create subdir | 17:16 |
| pballand | #action pballand to create subdir for specs in stackforge/congress | 17:16 |
| pballand | that’s it for me | 17:17 |
| sarob | Subdir for Juno as well | 17:17 |
| pballand | sarob: yes | 17:17 |
| sarob | The templates and format is straightforward | 17:17 |
| sarob | Are | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | We should also put someone in charge of writing a first blueprint. | 17:17 |
| * sarob hand up, at least to help | 17:18 | |
| skn_ | Didn’t we discuss that we’ll likely have multiple blueprints? | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | I can take that on unless someone else feels strongly. | 17:18 |
| skn_ | I can help out Tim | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | skn_: We'll definitely have multiple blueprints. But the first is often the hardest. | 17:18 |
| sarob | The spec process should make few blueprints | 17:19 |
| skn_ | And what do we want to focus on for the 1st one? | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | I'm going to need to read through that spec process. | 17:19 |
| sarob | Reason nova started for quality verses quantity they have had | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | Before I can figure out what the first blueprint should be. | 17:19 |
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| sarob | Can we discuss Juno user stories? | 17:20 |
| sarob | From the summit session | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | So let's make sure all 3 of us peruse nova-spec to see what's going on and then we'll be in touch over email to work out blueprint details. | 17:20 |
| skn_ | I thinks we should | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | #action thinrichs, sarob, skn_ will work on a nova-spec-like blueprint | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | sarob, skn_: Definitely | 17:21 |
| sarob | User stories brought up | 17:21 |
| sarob | Trusted pool | 17:21 |
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| sarob | Evacuation | 17:21 |
| sarob | Upgrade | 17:21 |
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| sarob | Workload migration | 17:22 |
| pballand | proposal: let’s classify stories by openstack components they include | 17:22 |
| sarob | Fine grained attributes | 17:22 |
| sarob | Smart | 17:23 |
| skn_ | Agree with pballand | 17:23 |
| sarob | Trusted pool will prob get intel people involved | 17:23 |
| sarob | And evacuation | 17:23 |
| sarob | Upgrade will have broad interest | 17:24 |
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| sarob | Those three are my favs | 17:24 |
| pballand | If I recall correctly, we agreed at the summit that the stories go on the wiki | 17:24 |
| skn_ | Let’s put them on the wiki first | 17:25 |
| sarob | Roger | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | Those 3 sound good to me too. | 17:25 |
| pballand | lets start with trusted pool: | 17:26 |
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| pballand | it definitely involves nova, and a way to tak hypervisors | 17:26 |
| pballand | s/tak/tag | 17:26 |
| skn_ | for geotagging, etc | 17:26 |
| sarob | Start with that | 17:26 |
| pballand | question: how are hypervisors identified as trusted, and are any other components involved? | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | Are we hoping to have demos for each of the 3, or just tell the story around them? | 17:27 |
| sarob | For Juno? | 17:27 |
| thinrichs | sarob: yes, Juno. | 17:27 |
| skn_ | TXT-based technology is Intel spoke about | 17:27 |
| sarob | skn_: yup | 17:27 |
| skn_ | Something like vTPM too | 17:27 |
| sarob | skn_: when we have the spec up, I'll point the intel people | 17:28 |
| pballand | can you help me understand how the TXT data gets to congress? | 17:28 |
| sarob | To it | 17:28 |
| pballand | (from nova?) | 17:28 |
| sarob | pballand: filter | 17:28 |
| sarob | Sep service monitoring txt | 17:28 |
| skn_ | we should have one use case for a network security service (e.g. vuln scanning, DLP, etc) | 17:29 |
| pballand | I’d like each story to include at least two components | 17:29 |
| pballand | (data-source plugins in Congress-speak) | 17:29 |
| sarob | Prob want API ext to front txt data | 17:29 |
| sarob | Nova API ext | 17:29 |
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| skn_ | Why do we want API extn? | 17:30 |
| sarob | IDS could get symantec involved | 17:30 |
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| sarob | More | 17:30 |
| skn_ | why not just data source | 17:30 |
| pballand | sarob: in that case, it sounds like the story just includes one component... | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | Any reason we can't integrate with the txt service directly? | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | skn_: agreed | 17:30 |
| sarob | thinrichs: could do that | 17:31 |
| thinrichs | Generally speaking we don't want to be extending existing services to make our use case. | 17:31 |
| sarob | thinrichs: makes it specific to intel | 17:31 |
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| sarob | Guess plugin could hold the flexibility | 17:31 |
| thinrichs | Or is the extension to the API already in existence? | 17:31 |
| sarob | Don't think so | 17:31 |
| sarob | Haven't checked | 17:31 |
| * sarob blush | 17:32 | |
| skn_ | I think we’ll need to take a fresh look at what the updated TXT interfaces are | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | sarob: part of what people seem to like is that we can use whatever services they have *without* changing services | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | And the system is designed to make that easy. | 17:32 |
| skn_ | Yes | 17:32 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: yes, that’s why data source is thw way to go | 17:32 |
| sarob | So have the flexibility in the congress plugins rather the projects | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | sarob: Yes. | 17:33 |
| sarob | Okey dokey | 17:33 |
| pballand | sarob: Could you add this to the wiki? | 17:33 |
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| pballand | skn_: can you describe the story you had in mind for intrusion detection? | 17:34 |
| sarob | pballand: which? | 17:34 |
| sarob | Trusted pool | 17:35 |
| skn_ | It would be like IDS service puts out data sources | 17:35 |
| pballand | yes | 17:35 |
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| skn_ | related to security issues | 17:35 |
| sarob | #action sarob add trusted pool user story to wiki | 17:35 |
| skn_ | stuffs that are monitored and if there is something bad happening, we may need to take actions | 17:36 |
| skn_ | intrusion might need to quarantine a VM, or a L2 segment, etc | 17:36 |
| pballand | skn_: this makes sense, but it would be great to nail down a specific integration, with nova or neutron, for example | 17:36 |
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| skn_ | Agreed, I can work on this use case | 17:36 |
| sarob | skn_: just nova network might be the best use case to start | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | Great. Someone dropped into pballand's office. | 17:37 |
| skn_ | ok | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | Or use the Neutron network as well. We already have a driver for that. | 17:37 |
| sarob | skn_: since very few running neutron | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | Or Nova Neutron. Whatever works. | 17:38 |
| skn_ | I think both nova and neutron | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | I don't know if we have the Nova network stuff integrated. rajdeep knows but couldn't make it. | 17:38 |
| skn_ | networks, I meant | 17:38 |
| pballand | sorry, back | 17:38 |
| sarob | Just thinking about real world use case | 17:38 |
| sarob | Neutron will not be as interesting at this moment | 17:39 |
| sarob | After Juno prob more | 17:39 |
| pballand | how about a scheduler hint based on IDS? | 17:39 |
| pballand | (nova scheduler) | 17:39 |
| skn_ | Like stop this VM? | 17:39 |
| pballand | actually, it’d be simpler if we can keep it as a monitoring case for now | 17:40 |
| sarob | Greylist | 17:40 |
| skn_ | I think nova network should be simple | 17:40 |
| skn_ | we can start with that | 17:40 |
| skn_ | quarantining a host | 17:41 |
| skn_ | I mean a VM | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | Are there Nova API calls we could execute that would be a reasonable response to IDS? | 17:41 |
| sarob | White and grey would be easier than black for Juno | 17:41 |
| sarob | For IDS | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | e.g. is there a quarantine API call, a black-list API call, etc.? | 17:41 |
| pballand | sarob: can you help me understand what you mean by gray-list? | 17:41 |
| sarob | These VMs may have issues, ops should look at these | 17:42 |
| pballand | (all of these ideas make sense, but I don’t know how to map that in to existing constructs in Nova) | 17:42 |
| sarob | Black would be automagically kill these | 17:42 |
| sarob | More harder | 17:42 |
| pballand | My trouble with graylist (as defined) is that it only involves the IDS (no cross-component integration) | 17:42 |
| thinrichs | So both monitoring (for gray-list) and enforcement (black-list). Right? | 17:43 |
| skn_ | Yes, I want the IDS to integrate with another component | 17:43 |
| sarob | Simple start is good | 17:43 |
| sarob | No? | 17:43 |
| pballand | I like the simpler “monitoring” use case, but would like to integrate it with another data source | 17:43 |
| skn_ | like scheduler data source? | 17:43 |
| skn_ | or the nova net? | 17:44 |
| pballand | e.g. if IDS flags host AND nova says host <something> then flag | 17:44 |
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| pballand | maybe nova-net says connected to intranet? | 17:44 |
| sarob | Could knock bad actor off lbaas | 17:44 |
| sarob | Or close ports | 17:44 |
| sarob | Rather than kill vm | 17:45 |
| pballand | if we are doing enforcement, turning off the VM is easiest to impelment (as a first-delivered feature) | 17:45 |
| sarob | Agreed | 17:45 |
| pballand | or disconnect-network | 17:45 |
| sarob | But to include another project | 17:45 |
| sarob | Was my comment | 17:46 |
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| pballand | my thought is that we may want to keep enforcement out for the immediate term | 17:46 |
| skn_ | pballand: Yes, for turning off VMs | 17:46 |
| sarob | Agreed | 17:46 |
| thinrichs | I think we should be able to get rudimentary actions/enforcement in place for Juno. | 17:46 |
| skn_ | I think, thats what we can have as the first use case | 17:46 |
| skn_ | easier to demo too | 17:46 |
| pballand | thinrichs: in that case, I have no objections to the story | 17:46 |
| thinrichs | Monitoring is a good first use case, for sure. But I think actions/enforcement is reasonable in 6 months. | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | For POC, of course. | 17:47 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: agreed | 17:47 |
| sarob | So IDS and nova services only to start for trusted pool user story | 17:47 |
| pballand | I was thinking this was a separate story | 17:48 |
| skn_ | Yeah, me too | 17:48 |
| skn_ | lets keep them separate | 17:48 |
| sarob | Okay | 17:48 |
| skn_ | trusted pool and IDS | 17:48 |
| sarob | Ah right | 17:48 |
| pballand | (trusted pool is nova + intel intetration, IDS is security + nova integration) | 17:48 |
| sarob | Conflated | 17:48 |
| pballand | skn_: can you pick an enforcement action, and add the story to the wiki? | 17:48 |
| skn_ | I can work on the IDS user story | 17:49 |
| skn_ | I can do that pballand | 17:49 |
| pballand | #action skn_ to add IDS user story to wiki | 17:49 |
| skn_ | The IDS story with monitoring and enforcement action | 17:49 |
| sarob | #action skn_ The IDS story with monitoring and enforcement action | 17:50 |
| pballand | do we want to keep going with evacuation or upgrade use cases? | 17:50 |
| pballand | (10 minutes left) | 17:50 |
| skn_ | Hey guys, I need to run, but I’ll work on the user story and likely share with you folks as I proceed | 17:50 |
| pballand | thanks skn_ ! | 17:50 |
| skn_ | Today I’m hosting a talk on OpenDaylight, so | 17:50 |
| pballand | I wanted to mention that we are trying to do the meeting every week now | 17:50 |
| sarob | Excellent | 17:50 |
| skn_ | Yes, I’ll join every week | 17:50 |
| skn_ | But only today I’ll run before time | 17:51 |
| skn_ | sorry about that | 17:51 |
| thinrichs | No problem. Thanks for joining! | 17:51 |
| skn_ | Bye pb, tim and sean | 17:51 |
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| thinrichs | Another action item we discussed at the summit was talking with Nova and Neutron folks. | 17:51 |
| sarob | Bye | 17:52 |
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| thinrichs | skn_: bye | 17:52 |
| thinrichs | We have contacts with Neutron, but who should we talk to in Nova? | 17:52 |
| sarob | I spoke with still | 17:52 |
| sarob | Nova ptl | 17:52 |
| sarob | He is ready when we are | 17:52 |
| sarob | I suggest getting both in the same meet to start | 17:53 |
| sarob | Kyle, mark, micheal | 17:53 |
| sarob | Bush | 17:53 |
| sarob | Arrg | 17:53 |
| sarob | Vish | 17:53 |
| pballand | sarob: Do you think we should have a separate meeting just for this, or do in IRC? | 17:54 |
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| sarob | I'm good with irc | 17:54 |
| pballand | (not clear to me how to do this most efficiently) | 17:54 |
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| sarob | I think those guys will prefer irc too | 17:54 |
| sarob | Documented | 17:55 |
| thinrichs | Would you suggest inviting them to this IRC or setting up a separate time? | 17:55 |
| sarob | History | 17:55 |
| sarob | Vish is PDT | 17:55 |
| sarob | Mark est | 17:55 |
| sarob | Kyle cst | 17:55 |
| sarob | Micheal aus | 17:55 |
| sarob | I can ask Micheal | 17:56 |
| sarob | He is the extreme | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | What are we trying to do in this meeting? Tough to convey vision over IRC. | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | Maybe we should chat on the phone about what we're trying to do here and logistics? | 17:57 |
| sarob | I'd think discuss policy strategy | 17:57 |
| sarob | Sure | 17:57 |
| sarob | Details should be irc though | 17:57 |
| thinrichs | Policy strategy across OS, yes? | 17:57 |
| sarob | And ODL | 17:57 |
| sarob | Kyle can represent that side | 17:58 |
| thinrichs | Agreed--the phone conv just for higher-bandwidth clarification on stuff already discussed. | 17:58 |
| sarob | Once we get going, bosh | 17:58 |
| sarob | Joshua can front that side | 17:58 |
| sarob | But later | 17:59 |
| sarob | Me discuss time with still right? | 17:59 |
| pballand | sounds great | 18:00 |
| pballand | unfortunately we’re out of time this week | 18:00 |
| sarob | #action sarob get time for stategy call with nova ptl | 18:00 |
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| sarob | Roger next week | 18:00 |
| pballand | thanks everyone for joining! | 18:00 |
| sarob | :) | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 20 18:00:51 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-05-20-17.04.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-05-20-17.04.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-05-20-17.04.log.html | 18:00 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 20 19:00:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
| briancurtin | If anyone's around for the sdk meeting, i threw together a small agenda, mostly just making sure to cover the outstanding reviews in teh way: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/PythonOpenStackSDK#Agenda_for_2014-05-20_1900_UTC | 19:01 |
| briancurtin | and if you're here, roll call | 19:01 |
| briancurtin | Brian Curtin, Rackspace | 19:01 |
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| dtroyer | antihistamine-soaked Dean Troyer, Nebula | 19:03 |
| jamielennox | Jamie Lennox, Red Hat | 19:05 |
| dtroyer | it's really quiet, right? it isn't that I just can't see the text? ok, good, I see jamie | 19:05 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Alex Gaynor, Rackspace | 19:05 |
| briancurtin | i'm guessing it'll be quiet as people probably catch up from last week, so maybe a quick meeting | 19:06 |
| jamielennox | dtroyer: your message was the first thing i saw - i only assume we're doing the roll call from that | 19:06 |
| dtroyer | yes | 19:06 |
| dtroyer | I'm full of allergy drugs so a little slow today | 19:06 |
| briancurtin | may as well get started | 19:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Thanks to everyone who came out to the session at the summit; it felt super productive and nice to sync with folks in person | 19:07 |
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| briancurtin | not really anything to discuss on this point, but i noticed coverage is broken, and we need a yet-to-be-released pbr to get it working | 19:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Was that always broken? | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | (or you can change the name in setup.cfg to be "openstack" if you need) | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | Alex_Gaynor: i'm guessing it was, i only tried to run it last week or the week before | 19:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | k | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | pbr did some magic where if the name starts with python-, it strips that off and uses it, but our package is called openstack instead of openstacksdk, so it was testing nothing and collecting nothing | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | anyway | 19:08 |
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| briancurtin | there's an open review for example code which depends on the presentation layer, but it just needs to be rebased. seems probably uncontroversial: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91448/ | 19:09 |
| briancurtin | what it depends on, though, could use some love: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90538/ | 19:09 |
| jamielennox | is there a decision on that either way? I don't know if we need presentation but what's the plan for right now? | 19:10 |
| dtroyer | sigh…I don't care for the presentation layer, and if it would ever stop screwing around with Transport I could ignore it… | 19:11 |
| jamielennox | i'd like to get passed this point - is the best way to +2 or -2 the presentation? | 19:12 |
| dtroyer | I just renewed my −1, but if that still doesn't get the point across I'm willing to be forceful about it | 19:12 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I have very little opinion about the presentation stuff; I'll hapilly defer to folks who feel they are blocked on it | 19:13 |
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| jamielennox | ok, given that from dtroyer i'm going to ignore it for now and if it ever passes it can be hacked in | 19:14 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | Sounsd good :-) | 19:14 |
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| briancurtin | with that being said, moving onto the auth change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91889/ | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | terry isn't here, but i know he had more work to do there, so i dont believe it's review ready | 19:15 |
| dtroyer | that is also my understanding | 19:15 |
| terrylhowe | I have another patch on that, I'm almost ready to update | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | he made a pass to address some of the early concerns, but still a TODO | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | oh, there he is - cool | 19:15 |
| terrylhowe | sorry I'm late | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | no prob | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | and now that he's here, terrylhowe: not sure if you saw, but we just talked about the presentation layer change. it seems like it's probably going to sit for now | 19:17 |
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| terrylhowe | I'll look at the logs I guess | 19:17 |
| terrylhowe | The biggest advantage of it is it cleaned up the resource class | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | quick summary - dean doesn't want it to muck with Transport, jamie wants to move on +2/-2 either way, alex deferred, i'm more with alex/jamie | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | (my +2 was that i'm somewhat fine with the change, strong on moving forward) | 19:20 |
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| briancurtin | so i guess other than that, and whenever the updated auth change comes in - anything else at the moment to discuss? | 19:23 |
| terrylhowe | I'm a little confused on Dean's comment on JSON support being removed from transport since it is in there still | 19:24 |
| terrylhowe | Not sure if he realized I uploaded a new patch | 19:24 |
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| briancurtin | dtroyer^ | 19:26 |
| dtroyer | moving it from Transport to PResentation now adds another requirement/dependency for Transport that I don't see any gain for. | 19:27 |
| terrylhowe | How about I just put the decode code into transport as well? | 19:27 |
| dtroyer | I prefer to balance the JSON encoding/decoding in Trnasport as half of it is already in Requests | 19:27 |
| terrylhowe | Fine, I just don't like it split over transport and resource | 19:28 |
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| dtroyer | I don't see the split. Right now Transport does both JSON encoding and decoding. | 19:29 |
| dtroyer | what am I missing? | 19:29 |
| terrylhowe | everything the resource class does | 19:29 |
| terrylhowe | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90538/6/openstack/resource.py | 19:30 |
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| dtroyer | there is certainly noting to prevent there being another encoding/decoding layer higher up in the stack…the actual duplication would be small if they both use the same lib. But I need it for things that are not resource-based. | 19:32 |
| terrylhowe | right, I moved the json encoding and decoding in transport | 19:33 |
| dtroyer | how about this: don't change transport.py and I'll be able to let the rest go. | 19:33 |
| dtroyer | Conceptually, something called Presentation should not be a dependency of something called Transport. It's upside down | 19:34 |
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| terrylhowe | okay | 19:36 |
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| briancurtin | question: was looking at Resource.list and potentially making it a generator rather than list/marker (jamie's comment) - however, is there any general purpose way to do that? for example, swift's marker is a string container name, but i've seen others that are IDs | 19:41 |
| briancurtin | er, limit/marker, not list/marker | 19:41 |
| terrylhowe | container name is pretty much an id | 19:42 |
| jamielennox | so i don't even remember what's currently in resource - if you want to switch it out then do it | 19:42 |
| jamielennox | i had thought previously as to whether we could almost cache on a list call | 19:43 |
| jamielennox | so return an object that was a generator that stored everything and could essentially be scrolled through | 19:43 |
| briancurtin | yep, i'll look further into that (i love generators, so the comment stuck out) | 19:43 |
| terrylhowe | sounds good to me | 19:44 |
| briancurtin | anything else to cover with these last 15 minutes? | 19:44 |
| jamielennox | there has been some discussion on the server sides about u sing next/previous in the response for how to access more data so a generator makes sense there | 19:45 |
| briancurtin | jamielennox: that probably does make sense there, then i wouldn't have to worry about a marker at all, just give a limit, keep going with next, stop when there isn't one | 19:46 |
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| briancurtin | i take it that's probably the end. anything else in these last 10 min? | 19:50 |
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| terrylhowe | nope | 19:51 |
| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 19:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 20 19:52:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-05-20-19.00.html | 19:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-05-20-19.00.txt | 19:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-05-20-19.00.log.html | 19:52 |
| briancurtin | thanks all | 19:52 |
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| jamielennox | thanks | 19:54 |
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