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| pgpus | What Pacific Standard Time does this meet occur today? | 14:06 |
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| mfer | #startmeeting openstack-sdk-php | 15:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 21 15:30:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mfer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)" | 15:30 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_sdk_php' | 15:30 |
| mfer | Welcome everyone. | 15:30 |
| glenc- | o/ | 15:30 |
| mfer | Please state your name and any applicable association | 15:30 |
| mfer | Matt Farina, HP | 15:30 |
| samchoi | Sam Choi, HP | 15:31 |
| glenc- | Glen Campbell, Rackspace | 15:31 |
| jamie_h | Jamie Hannaford, Rackspace | 15:31 |
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| mfer | #topic Agenda | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)" | 15:32 | |
| mfer | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStack-SDK-PHP | 15:32 |
| mfer | There are 7 items on the agenda but given the audience we can do just the last 6. | 15:32 |
| mfer | Is there anything that should be added? | 15:32 |
| mfer | 1. Intro to the PHP SDK if there is anyone new? (mfer) | 15:32 |
| mfer | 2. FQCNs in DocBlocks (mfer) | 15:32 |
| mfer | 3. json schema (mfer) | 15:32 |
| mfer | 4. transport layer (mfer) | 15:32 |
| mfer | 5. testing (mfer) | 15:32 |
| mfer | 6. Reviews in progress - any questions/concerns? We are quickly accumulating reviews that touch overlapping files. It would be in our best interest to move forward with reviews soon. (samchoi) | 15:32 |
| mfer | 7. What are the essential blueprints/bugs that need to be finished before we can move on to working on additional services? (samchoi) | 15:32 |
| jamie_h | I have nothing to add | 15:33 |
| mfer | #topic FQCNs in DocBlocks | 15:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "FQCNs in DocBlocks (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)" | 15:33 | |
| mfer | In a recent review samchoi noticed that some cases have shortened references to classes to just the imported name rather than that full name | 15:34 |
| mfer | As I understand it, some IDEs don't handle this well | 15:34 |
| mfer | samchoi did you have anything else you wanted to add? | 15:34 |
| samchoi | I can confirm several versions of Zend Studio (Eclipse) have the issue with auto complete. NetBeans appears to have the issue as well. | 15:35 |
| samchoi | That's about it | 15:35 |
| mfer | samchoi when the full path is provided it works? | 15:35 |
| samchoi | yes | 15:35 |
| mfer | jamie_h what do you think about using the full path for classes in @params, @returns, and @throws? | 15:36 |
| jamie_h | the only advantage of short forms is that it's briefer and saves space | 15:36 |
| jamie_h | playing devil's advocate: should IDE support inform technical/internal decisions? | 15:37 |
| jamie_h | I don't really mind either way as long as we're consistent | 15:37 |
| glenc | +1 | 15:37 |
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| mfer | I think that's a good question. here was my initial take but i'm open to someone telling me something different. the goal of the SDK is developer experience. we want to have a good one. A lot of PHP devs use these IDEs so we should give them a good experience. | 15:38 |
| mfer | that would lead to the longer form | 15:38 |
| mfer | jamie_h glenc samchoi thoughts? other ways to look at it? | 15:39 |
| jamie_h | there's also nothing really stopping us using short forms, say in a year or two, if IDEs start supporting them | 15:39 |
| jamie_h | so for now I'm happy using FQCNs | 15:39 |
| mfer | we can always change in the future. even without a major point release because the API wouldn't be changing | 15:39 |
| glenc | I probably wouldn't spend a huge amount of time retrofitting existing stuff, but simply set a standard and change them as we encounter them. | 15:40 |
| glenc | Make it a standard to use the FQCN | 15:40 |
| samchoi | For the reasons jamie_h mentioned in response to my reviews, I also like local/short names as well if all things were equal. I think using FQCN and considering future changes would be a good approach | 15:40 |
| mfer | ok, then i think this is settled. we can move on to the next topic. sorry if i push this a little quickly. there are a bunch of topics | 15:41 |
| mfer | #topic json schema | 15:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "json schema (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)" | 15:41 | |
| mfer | jamie_h glenc have the two of you had a chance to talk with jesse noller about this? | 15:41 |
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| glenc | Yes, we've had some extensive email threads | 15:42 |
| jamie_h | jesse e-mailed us about a decision being made at the summit about not using JSON schemas for the time being - but to some how bake in support for the future | 15:42 |
| glenc | I understand that it's not recommended for the time being | 15:42 |
| glenc | but IMHO they don't really understand our use case within the SDK; doesn't make sense to develop something else and then replace it in six months to a year. | 15:42 |
| mfer | Jesse and I each went out to assess the situation at the summit. we came together to talk about it. let me share what I learned and we can discuss. | 15:43 |
| mfer | json schema was a fairly big and common topic at the summit. a number of projects want to or are starting to use it in different ways. For example, some wand to describe their "objects" in it and use that for validation. this is a fairly different case from ours. | 15:44 |
| mfer | others want to use it to describe api interactions at the REST level. this is in line with what we are looking for. | 15:45 |
| mfer | I spoke with several people on different teams who told me that using json schema the way we want to is a great idea. they also said don't do it yet | 15:45 |
| mfer | of all the people i spoke with the common theme was that sdks should use json schema but not yet. no one was saying do it now. | 15:46 |
| mfer | at least to me | 15:46 |
| mfer | it opens up questions of who manages the schemas, where do they live, how are they shared and kept up to date. | 15:46 |
| mfer | there is my context. i want to know what the rest of you think | 15:46 |
| jamie_h | was there a reason for not using it right now? the ownership/location issue you just brought up isn't a temporary one, it will always be the case | 15:47 |
| mfer | note, i'm sharing what i heard not my opinion on this topic | 15:47 |
| mfer | jamie_h until service create schemas for their services and manage them themselves. then we would be a consumer of that | 15:47 |
| jamie_h | another reason i can see for not using JSON schemas right now is because the actual spec is still a bit rough around the edges | 15:48 |
| mfer | there were a number of sessions on cleaning up the api. there was quite a bit of agreement that it "needs work" | 15:48 |
| jamie_h | if an API provides us with schemas (in the future), that won't give us the DSL we were talking about | 15:49 |
| jamie_h | i.e. defining REST operations | 15:49 |
| glenc | The use case for the SDK is that we need a way to describe a service so that the underlying code can be simplified and be metadata-driven. If we DON'T use json schema, then we need some other way to describe those services, and I don't know what that could be. | 15:49 |
| jamie_h | all JSON schema is useful for is modelling data structures. We still need a way to describe services | 15:50 |
| jamie_h | either in a DSL (metadata) or userland code | 15:50 |
| glenc | WADL :( | 15:50 |
| mfer | glenc there were a number of conversations on the side about metadata driven SDKs. I was surprised how many SDK devs there were opposed to it. I'm not opposed to it, personally. | 15:50 |
| jamie_h | I don't mind not using schemas - but we need to think about how we'll describe services | 15:50 |
| mfer | even if we do it on PHP there will be opposition on other SDKs which brings up a consistency problem | 15:50 |
| glenc | I'm nervous about it but I can see the benefits, if implemented properly. FWIW, I did a ton of metadata-driven libraries back in my past, and sometimes the metadata DSL became more complicated than the underlying programming language. | 15:51 |
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| jamie_h | when I was searching on the mailing list, most people seem enthused about a metadata-driven SDK because it was so powerful. So I'm surprised to hear the contrary | 15:51 |
| mfer | it more or less changes the problem from one of coding for the API or coding to make the DSL/metadata work well. | 15:52 |
| mfer | jamie_h i was surprised too! | 15:52 |
| glenc | Yes, and coding a DSL interpreter that is sufficiently rich to support everything in all the services | 15:52 |
| jamie_h | but the tradeoffs are clear: userland code is slower to write, has duplication, bloats the codebase and requires hundreds more tests | 15:53 |
| jamie_h | the debate between a DSL and userland code is separate from that of JSON schemas - I'm happy to ignore json schemas if openstack does not think it's ready | 15:54 |
| mfer | well, a DSL and schema needs to be learned which is not common in many circles which takes more ramp up time. you can write userland code to cut down duplication. | 15:54 |
| mfer | jamie_h how about this. we next look at what a DSL would look like without json schema. test the waters | 15:55 |
| samchoi | mfer: Agreed..was just about to mention that implementing a DSL can create more of a barrier to entry for new contributors | 15:55 |
| samchoi | If we don | 15:55 |
| jamie_h | a DSL can also serve as living documentation, which is beneficial to end-users | 15:55 |
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| jamie_h | mfer that sounds good. Let's leave JSON schema behind and make this a question of how to describe services | 15:55 |
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| mfer | jamie_h we need to make sure it makes sense to those using an IDE or documentation system. A schema and DSL aren't self documentation to many in the long tail. | 15:56 |
| mfer | jamie_h samchoi what about comparing a DSL to that of a userland code solution? | 15:56 |
| jamie_h | mfer let's do some more investigation about DSL vs userland code - and then make a decision | 15:57 |
| samchoi | mfer: My only thought at the moment is that topic could take us the rest of the meeting. I don't know that we've explored that enough. | 15:57 |
| jamie_h | I think it's best to investigate outside of this meeting | 15:57 |
| mfer | yeah | 15:57 |
| mfer | jamie_h since you're interested in the DSL portion would you be willing to put something together for us to evaluate there? | 15:57 |
| jamie_h | sure | 15:57 |
| mfer | samchoi since you brought up the userland code option, would you be up for a solution that does that for us to look at? | 15:58 |
| samchoi | alright | 15:58 |
| mfer | yay! progress | 15:58 |
| glenc | mfer - FYI, I have to step out to attend another meeting. | 15:59 |
| glenc | see y'all next week | 15:59 |
| mfer | #action jamie_h create a DSL demo to compare for an architecture path forward. | 15:59 |
| mfer | #action samchoi create a userland code demo to compare for an architecture path forward. | 15:59 |
| mfer | glenc see ya and thanks for coming | 15:59 |
| mfer | ok, can we move on to the next topic | 16:00 |
| jamie_h | I don't know whether it'll be a full demo - I'll outline tradeoffs and provide a sample implementation :) | 16:00 |
| jamie_h | happy to move on to next topic | 16:00 |
| samchoi | sure, ready to move on | 16:00 |
| mfer | jamie_h yeah, i'm not looking for a full demo. just enough for evaluation | 16:00 |
| mfer | #topic transport layer | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "transport layer (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)" | 16:00 | |
| mfer | jamie_h i like what you'd started with the guzzle change. i just had one outstanding question... | 16:01 |
| mfer | why the use of events to fire off exceptions? | 16:01 |
| mfer | much of what you did could be implemented with a single class. i'm trying to understand the differences | 16:01 |
| jamie_h | Guzzle uses events in the life cycle of its requests. This is how it handles exceptions. So if we're using Guzzle, it makes sense to take advantage of their underlying system | 16:02 |
| jamie_h | plus events are extremely beneficial because it allows you to add in functionality instead of extending/overriding other library classes | 16:02 |
| jamie_h | plus it allows you to have a class whose responsibilities are exception handling, instead of mixing that logic with others | 16:03 |
| mfer | one of the things we should take care of doing is making the transport layer transparent to end users. you use one but in your general code it doesn't matter. an event attached to a service call is on the service and happens with all transport layers | 16:04 |
| mfer | there is a clean separation | 16:04 |
| mfer | #link http://docs.guzzlephp.org/en/latest/clients.html?highlight=exception#asynchronous-response-handling | 16:05 |
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| mfer | in that section of the guzzle docs it does say to use exceptions from events. so, this makes sense. not sure how i didn't see this before | 16:06 |
| mfer | jamie_h what do you think of my thoughts on the separation? | 16:06 |
| jamie_h | all that code does is attach the callback to the client | 16:06 |
| mfer | yeah | 16:06 |
| jamie_h | can you rephrase what you mean about separation - not sure I understood | 16:06 |
| mfer | a service is one thing and a transport layer is separate. so, if we add events to services it's separate from events on the transport layer. | 16:07 |
| mfer | i would like to see clear separation between the two systems | 16:07 |
| mfer | even if one implents the system for the other | 16:08 |
| jamie_h | me too. a transport client is injected into a service, with its own (i.e. exception) subscribers | 16:08 |
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| mfer | great | 16:08 |
| jamie_h | the exception handling thing I coded isn't coupled to services - it's purely transport | 16:08 |
| mfer | yeah | 16:09 |
| jamie_h | keeping that separation is very important, I agree | 16:09 |
| mfer | ok, great. i'm looking forward to the next patch set to fix the segfault issue so we can keep this moving. | 16:09 |
| mfer | samchoi do you have any other questions about this? | 16:09 |
| jamie_h | do you want me to submit that fix as a separate patch or shall I update the current patch with the changes? | 16:09 |
| samchoi | no, it seems like we're just making sure the transport layer is still loosely coupled for flexibility | 16:09 |
| mfer | jamie_h just update the current set. it's a dependency to your other one that's ready to go in. | 16:10 |
| mfer | are we ready for the next topic? | 16:10 |
| jamie_h | yep | 16:10 |
| mfer | #topic testing | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)" | 16:10 | |
| mfer | when I was at the summit I wanted to know how we can get the PHP SDK tested against multiple PHP versions | 16:11 |
| mfer | I found out that we now can. where there were limitation stopping us before we can do this and nodepool should enable it to work | 16:11 |
| mfer | unless someone else wants the action, I was going to take a look into how we can get this setup | 16:12 |
| jamie_h | that sounds *really* useful | 16:12 |
| samchoi | sure mfer , I can't see anyone refusing automated testing | 16:12 |
| mfer | that's all i wanted to say. i know it had been a point of frustration and we'd talked about Travis CI as an alternative | 16:13 |
| mfer | does anyone else want to talk about testing the things or shall we move on? | 16:13 |
| jamie_h | i have something to add about our testing setup - but more related to code than infra | 16:13 |
| mfer | jamie_h is it about faster testing? | 16:14 |
| jamie_h | that's one of them | 16:14 |
| jamie_h | the other is for us not to use @depends | 16:14 |
| mfer | why is that? | 16:14 |
| jamie_h | because it tightly couples tests together and makes them brittle. unit tests should be completely isolated and autonomous | 16:14 |
| jamie_h | there's nothing wrong with using class properties (like $this->resource), but a unit test should not rely on another for input | 16:15 |
| mfer | jamie_h how would you handle all the different setup and tear down cases? | 16:15 |
| jamie_h | you'd have a generic setup and tear down case, and allow individual tests to instantiate their own fixtures as needed | 16:16 |
| jamie_h | but the majority of cases tests will probably need a generic fixture | 16:16 |
| mfer | jamie_h in the interest of time can you send an email to the list about this? I'm not opposed to it but I fear we'll run out of time on this topic. | 16:17 |
| jamie_h | sure | 16:17 |
| mfer | would that work? | 16:17 |
| mfer | thanks | 16:17 |
| mfer | i look forward to that email. i know testing is a broader topic than just this and we really don't have the time today. if we aren't done on the list by next week we can pick it up again then. | 16:18 |
| mfer | If we're ok with it, let's jump into the reviews in progress | 16:18 |
| jamie_h | happy to move on | 16:18 |
| samchoi | sure | 16:18 |
| mfer | #topic Reviews in progress | 16:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews in progress (Meeting topic: openstack-sdk-php)" | 16:19 | |
| mfer | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/openstack-sdk-php,n,z | 16:19 |
| mfer | first up we have https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93892/. This removed even having default swift regions. | 16:20 |
| mfer | jamie_h would you have a chance to review this one? | 16:20 |
| jamie_h | I'll take a look tomorrow morning | 16:20 |
| mfer | thanks | 16:20 |
| samchoi | In the interest of time, I'm ot too worried about the first three since it looks like those are fairly straightforward and already got positive reviews | 16:20 |
| mfer | samchoi ok | 16:20 |
| mfer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93089/ the clientinterface and guzzle changes. besides the segfault fix is there anything else that needs to be handled or talked about? | 16:21 |
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| mfer | samchoi jamie_h ?? | 16:22 |
| jamie_h | i have nothing to add | 16:22 |
| samchoi | Since we're not going with JSON schema at this point, it seems like the concerns we had about having to refactor are invald now | 16:22 |
| samchoi | so yes | 16:22 |
| samchoi | that's it | 16:22 |
| mfer | and if they aren't we'll modify things later | 16:22 |
| mfer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92280/ the sphinx one. i was hoping Shaunak would be here to talk about this | 16:23 |
| jamie_h | if there are any comments about this patch, i can pass them on | 16:23 |
| mfer | jamie_h do you know when he'll be back to chat? | 16:23 |
| mfer | there are questions on it | 16:23 |
| jamie_h | i'm not sure, i think shaunak is travelling for conferences for a while | 16:24 |
| jamie_h | shall we postpone this one until we know more | 16:24 |
| mfer | sure. | 16:24 |
| samchoi | Sure, this review has less of an effect on others' work | 16:24 |
| mfer | if he's too busy and one of us wants to jump in we can talk about it then | 16:25 |
| mfer | then there is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90407/ which is on testing | 16:25 |
| mfer | to be honest, i'd like to see if there is a better option | 16:26 |
| jamie_h | so, some preamble: I'm completely for end-to-end testing, it's incredibly important. But it should not be mixed with unit tests | 16:26 |
| mfer | how much isn't integration tests? | 16:26 |
| jamie_h | i think the vast majority are integration tests | 16:27 |
| mfer | is it worth the effort to separate them if we can have a way to run the who suite really fast? | 16:27 |
| jamie_h | probably not - perhaps it requires a more comprehensive solution | 16:27 |
| jamie_h | this was just a temporary workaround | 16:27 |
| mfer | are you familiar with php vcr? i'm not but samchoi has been looking into it | 16:28 |
| jamie_h | yeah, I've looked into it | 16:28 |
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| samchoi | From what I understand, the Ruby Fog guys are using it quite extensively and had great results | 16:28 |
| samchoi | so it got my attention | 16:28 |
| jamie_h | yeah, but that just speeds up integration tests. I can go into more detail on the mailing list | 16:28 |
| jamie_h | about what I mean, because I don't think we have time now | 16:28 |
| samchoi | sure | 16:29 |
| mfer | jamie_h thanks. i'm not opposed to any changes. it would just be good to talk through it so we can all understand all the things | 16:29 |
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| mfer | and we are out of time. thanks everyone for coming. feels like this was a good meeting. | 16:30 |
| samchoi | hmm the last agenda item wasn't a high priority btw, since we're going to be kicked out | 16:30 |
| mfer | #endmeeting | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 21 16:30:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_sdk_php/2014/openstack_sdk_php.2014-05-21-15.30.html | 16:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_sdk_php/2014/openstack_sdk_php.2014-05-21-15.30.txt | 16:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_sdk_php/2014/openstack_sdk_php.2014-05-21-15.30.log.html | 16:30 |
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| tjones | #startmeeting NovaBugScrub | 16:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 21 16:30:48 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: NovaBugScrub)" | 16:30 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'novabugscrub' | 16:30 |
| tjones | hi anyone here today? | 16:30 |
| wendar | tjones: hi | 16:31 |
| tjones | hi wendar | 16:31 |
| tjones | *listens for others* | 16:31 |
| tjones | ok just you and me then | 16:32 |
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| wendar | I've been working on nova/oslo bugs. | 16:33 |
| tjones | i've already tagged most of the untagged bugs. thanks for doing that. | 16:33 |
| tjones | i spoke with mikal at the summit and we said we would hold a bug day next week (or the week after). so i'll send something to the ML about that. probably on a wednesday | 16:34 |
| tjones | #action tjones schedule bug day and send out the info to the ML | 16:34 |
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| tjones | the other thing he wanted me to do is help to drive the critical bug list at the weekly nova meeting. However - with only priority it is hard to see what else is critical. any ideas on that? | 16:35 |
| tjones | like come up with a top 10 list of bugs people should be pushing on | 16:35 |
| tjones | currently there is 1 marked critical - but is seems like there are probably others that are super high prio but not *quite* critical | 16:36 |
| wendar | I guess I'd tackle it two ways: Which bugs underpin Juno release goals? and Which bugs do the various section leads need soonest? | 16:36 |
| tjones | sounds good - but im not sure i am in a position to judge.. Unless it is an area i am very involved in i cannot really tell other than the prio that people set. | 16:37 |
| tjones | prob not fair for me to push vmwareapi bugs just because i have intimate knowlege of them | 16:38 |
| tjones | i guess i need to lean on the section leads to help with this | 16:38 |
| tjones | i've started an etherpad to review during the nova meeting | 16:39 |
| tjones | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/NovaTopTenBugs | 16:39 |
| tjones | i'll ask people to add to it if they have critical issues and i can help drive that | 16:40 |
| tjones | that's all i really had for today. | 16:40 |
| wendar | That sounds good. | 16:41 |
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| tjones | anything you think i should be doing differently? | 16:42 |
| tjones | ok im going to go ahead and end then. thanks for helping out | 16:45 |
| tjones | #endmeeting | 16:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 21 16:45:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/novabugscrub/2014/novabugscrub.2014-05-21-16.30.html | 16:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/novabugscrub/2014/novabugscrub.2014-05-21-16.30.txt | 16:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/novabugscrub/2014/novabugscrub.2014-05-21-16.30.log.html | 16:45 |
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| vinay_yadhav | Hi sumit | 17:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: hi | 17:17 |
| vinay_yadhav | i have prepared a first draft for Tap-as-a-service | 17:18 |
| vinay_yadhav | i will share it on the mailing list | 17:18 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: nice | 17:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: if you want to discuss in the meeting, you can add it to the agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/AdvancedServices | 17:19 |
| vinay_yadhav | i will formally commit it after the meeting ot tomorrow | 17:19 |
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| vinay_yadhav | i have added TaaS in the agenda | 17:27 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: thanks | 17:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hello neutron folks! | 17:30 |
| pgpus | Yes indeepd this is my first meeting after 3 years with opesntack neutron!!! | 17:30 |
| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: greetings | 17:30 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus cgoncalves: hi | 17:30 |
| banix | hi | 17:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: welcome ot the meeting | 17:31 |
| rkukura | hi | 17:31 |
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| vinay_yadhav | hi all | 17:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura banix: hi | 17:31 |
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| s3wong | Is the advanced service still taken place today? | 17:31 |
| regXboi | 'ola | 17:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok i think we have critical mass lets get started | 17:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: ^^^ :-) | 17:31 |
| pgpus | super | 17:31 |
| kanzhe | hi | 17:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking Advanced Services | 17:31 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 21 17:31:59 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:32 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 17:32 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_advanced_services' | 17:32 |
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| s3wong | vinay_yadhav: welcome! | 17:32 |
| beyounn_1 | hi | 17:32 |
| vinay_yadhav | thanx! | 17:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Atlanta summit recap | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Atlanta summit recap (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 17:32 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-advanced-services | 17:32 |
| s3wong | vinay_yadhav is working on network tap / port mirroring, and kanzhe and I asked him to join us here | 17:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we had long discussions during the summit, and most of you were part of that | 17:32 |
| rkukura | SumitNaiksatam: agenda link? | 17:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes, sure, vinay_yadhav mentioned that to me, we interacted at the summit as well | 17:33 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #info agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/AdvancedServices | 17:33 |
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| sballe | Hi | 17:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the summit session time was on the shorter side, to go through the design in detail | 17:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | sballe: hi | 17:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | any after thoughts from the summit? | 17:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | if not, lets get into the specifics | 17:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Juno planning and feature tracking | 17:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno planning and feature tracking (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 17:35 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/AdvancedServices/JunoPlan | 17:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i made a first cut with links to the blueprints that have been posted in gerrit so far | 17:35 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | this is not to say that what we intend to discuss in this forum is only limited to what is currently in the table | 17:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | just a starting point | 17:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | my proposal is that we populate the items in that table, and start tracking them in this meeting (based on prirority) | 17:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thoughts? | 17:37 |
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| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: thank you for creating that page. it will definitely help all of us keep track of most if not all BPs | 17:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: sure | 17:37 |
| kanzhe | SumitNaiksatam: +1 | 17:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | kanzhe: ok | 17:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i have volunteered names for owners ;-) | 17:37 |
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| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: :-) | 17:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but if anyone wants to take up items which are not being looked at, please feel free to do so and add | 17:38 |
| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: what will be the prioritization criteria? | 17:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: good question | 17:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: to a large extent we need to align balance the priorities of Neutron as a whole, with what we do here | 17:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: so the things which have direct dependencies, should obviously higher priority | 17:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we need to eventually discuss this with the PTL and the core team | 17:39 |
| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: agreed | 17:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | for now, my suggestion is that, lets populate the table with the items, and when you think you can achieve these | 17:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can take it from there | 17:40 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | sound okay to everyone? | 17:40 |
| mandeep | +1 | 17:40 |
| cgoncalves | +1 | 17:41 |
| kanzhe | +1 | 17:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok | 17:41 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: how about the spec approval? is anyone looking to push those forward? | 17:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: good question, we have to do that as a team :-) | 17:41 |
| kanzhe | s3wong: I was going to ask the same question. | 17:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | core reviewer cycles are limited, so this going to be tough | 17:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but +1s do matter | 17:42 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: kanzhe: I am OK with starting to code, but it would be difficult if some core dev keeps on requesting changes | 17:42 |
| rkukura | I’d like to see several +1’s on each spec from subteam members before we start recruiting core reviewers | 17:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so as a team lets start getting comments out (we dont have to wait for the cores) | 17:42 |
| * cgoncalves senses a '+1 specs review trading' | 17:42 | |
| kanzhe | This team should converge on the spec first. +1 from all members would be a good indication. | 17:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: by all means | 17:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: +1 | 17:42 |
| * mandeep cgoncalves ;-) | 17:42 | |
| pgpus | The order seems ok to me as enetered for now flvaor, insertion, steering and chaninig | 17:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes lets get the spec approved before any major coding, you can definitely do a quick PoC to validate | 17:43 |
| pgpus | may be chaining and traffic steering can be paralle | 17:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: ok, thanks for that feedback | 17:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: agree | 17:43 |
| banix | pgpus: well, we may not need steering for chaining; so will change the order at the end | 17:44 |
| banix | pgpus: yes | 17:44 |
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| pgpus | thats should be fine | 17:44 |
| mandeep | pgpus: The objective was to keep chaining as independent as possible so that it can provided by different technologies (using service ports + steering or existing services) | 17:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so let me ask, what other “topics” from the ones that are mentioned in the table are on our immediate radar? | 17:44 |
| pgpus | service sharing by users belonging to a tenant | 17:45 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: you mean, other topics in addition to what is on the wiki? | 17:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes, in addition to what is noted in: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/AdvancedServices/JunoPlan | 17:45 |
| pgpus | No sure if sharing is there may be i need to look little deper into that | 17:46 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: NA means Not Applicable as in we are not going to do it? | 17:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: probably bad choice of words :-) | 17:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: will change that to Juno | 17:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: are you planning a blueprint for this? | 17:46 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok in, general, let me propose that for topics to appear in the above table, you need to have a gerrit spec submitted, does that sound reasonable? | 17:47 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: yes got a bit confusng, thanks. | 17:47 |
| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: +1 | 17:47 |
| mandeep | agreed | 17:47 |
| vinay_yadhav | ok | 17:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok good | 17:48 |
| pgpus | OK after reviewing of all BPs I will see if I need to add a new BP if its required as service offerred by a Service Provider must be shared among many users belonging to that tenant | 17:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: ok | 17:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | at this point we have a lot on our plates, so we cannot go too much beyond what we currently have | 17:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the resource contention is on the reviewer time (not so much on the developer effort) | 17:49 |
| pgpus | OK but is it's just adding a flag or two to share with minimum code I don't see that a big deal | 17:49 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: +1 i hope we can get Flavors and Service Insertion at least | 17:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: sure, i was not commenting on your suggestion, i was just making a general statement | 17:49 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: +1, getting too ambitious here now, it seems :-) | 17:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK s3wong agree (i tempted to say, show me the code ;-)) | 17:50 |
| SridarK | :-) | 17:50 |
| pgpus | Sure falvor is easier once we compare wth nova flavors and add what we ned from our resources and pools | 17:50 |
| s3wong | SridarK: that would be great accomplishment by Juno already | 17:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok, so starting today, we will track based on the table :-) | 17:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the table might have more items in the coming weeks, and we will evaluate accordingly | 17:51 |
| pgpus | ok | 17:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | everyone okay? | 17:51 |
| s3wong | +1 | 17:51 |
| vinay_yadhav | ok | 17:51 |
| SridarK | +1 | 17:51 |
| cgoncalves | +1 | 17:51 |
| rkukura | +1 | 17:51 |
| arao012 | ok | 17:51 |
| kanzhe | +1 | 17:51 |
| banix | +1 | 17:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok cool | 17:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | moving on | 17:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | into specifics | 17:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Neutron Advanced Services' Common Framework gerrit spec | 17:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron Advanced Services' Common Framework gerrit spec (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 17:52 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | so this is just FYI, most of you already know | 17:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92200 | 17:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | was approved during the last week | 17:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i guess the a concrete development coming out of the summit :-) | 17:53 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic: Neutron Flavor Framework | 17:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Neutron Flavor Framework (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 17:53 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90070 | 17:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i dont think eugene is here | 17:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we discussed this again at the summit | 17:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think the consensus was that most of what is currently in the spec is good | 17:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | for the tenant facing API | 17:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | everyone agree? | 17:54 |
| pcm_ | +1 | 17:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | although there are a few -1s on the review (i think eugene will address those when gets off the road) | 17:55 |
| SridarK | +1 | 17:55 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: also we want to keep the scheduling of the backend fairly simple for the first pass | 17:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah coming to that | 17:55 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i was going to say that there was some objection on using the service type framework for the backend | 17:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i did not quite understand what the push back was | 17:56 |
| SridarK | Some concern on this becoming too complex - perhaps for the right reasons but it will be good to phase out the implementation | 17:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok | 17:56 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Yes - i think a lot of us were on the same page on that | 17:56 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: really? most of the complains I heard was how to properly standardize a basic set of tags? | 17:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: we already have the framework, and i guess people understand it | 17:57 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes i hope we can push for that | 17:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: in the summit session i heard some differing opinion from mark mcclain on the provider side of things (in the context of STF) | 17:58 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | although that was the only differing opinion i heard | 17:58 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | perhaps eugene can better explain next week | 17:58 |
| s3wong | sure | 17:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | meanwhile, does everyone agree that this is highest priority? | 17:58 |
| s3wong | mark seems to support it for sure | 17:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i mean flavors framework | 17:59 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | if so, please comment on the review, so that we can move this forward | 17:59 |
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| pcm_ | +1 | 17:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we need to start knocking off these gerrit specs | 18:00 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: yes, ServiceBase class has a field for flavor, so I hope to see it done soon also | 18:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | as a team effort | 18:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok next topic | 18:00 |
| pgpus | I see flavor being shared and similar should be available for instances of service ..shared - boolean - whether the flavor is visible to all tenants116 | 18:00 |
| pgpus | 18:00 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: ok, perhaps you can add that comment to the review | 18:01 |
| pgpus | ok will do | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: the issue with sharing is that, its difficult to nail down the semantics on the datapath | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: its probably different across services | 18:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: we faced this debate at the time we were introducing fwaas | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but i agree that most vendors want to see some notion of this (opinios differ though on what they actually want) | 18:02 |
| pgpus | Agreed and that shared must be limited to with tenant data users and not to admin to see all what I mean and will look into that | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic: Service base definition and Insertion | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Service base definition and Insertion (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 18:02 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93128 | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | kanzhe, s3wong: ? | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | quick summary of summit discussion? | 18:03 |
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| kanzhe | SumitNaiksatam: yes. The spec is up for review. | 18:03 |
| s3wong | We presented it at the design summit, and there was no objection :-) | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | kanzhe s3wong: okay :-) | 18:04 |
| banix | s3wong: and not much nodding either :) | 18:04 |
| kanzhe | At the summit, I didn't hear any major objection. | 18:04 |
| pgpus | OK let me review and give feedback in next meeting for service insertion (if its still open for review) | 18:04 |
| s3wong | We have also had a Neutron pod discussion - some guys from F5 were questioning on external port, but it was clarified | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes that was addressed, and we will be meeting rick again | 18:05 |
| s3wong | We also had discussion with HP (DVR guys), FWaaS team, and ServiceVM subteam. There is some level of consensus here | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | that said the external port is not the main thing in the proposal | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so lets not get distracted by that | 18:05 |
| s3wong | so we are cautiously optimistic :-) | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes, good | 18:05 |
| kanzhe | How does everyone here feel about the proposal? | 18:05 |
| kanzhe | Not much feedback on the spec yet. | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i had some questions earlier, which kanzhe, you seem to have answered, but i havent had a chance to circle back | 18:06 |
| SridarK | kanzhe: i think this is good - i am trying to fit this into our use case as well and will add comments to the review | 18:06 |
| pgpus | Not clear to me is it Blueprint review or Code review as I see some pathchens in it , may be I am new need to do some homework on this | 18:06 |
| kanzhe | SumitNaiksatam: ok. SridarK : thx. | 18:07 |
| cgoncalves | kanzhe: sorry about that. I will review it this week | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: our specs are also now reviewed in gerrit | 18:07 |
| s3wong | pgpus: not code, just the definitions | 18:07 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok sometimes, no objection is passive agreement :-) | 18:07 |
| kanzhe | cgoncalves: That would be great. | 18:07 |
| pgpus | OK I see Blueprint steps and will give feedback comments on it if Ok to dos o | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: thanks | 18:08 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | next topic | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic traffic steering | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "traffic steering (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 18:08 | |
| cgoncalves | \o/ | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92477 | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: normally i would have asked you to give an update, but i guess we owe you an update as well :-) | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: since you were not able to make it to the summit | 18:09 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | anyone wants to summarize the disccusion we had in the neutron pod on this? | 18:09 |
| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: ah! maybe you've already summed it up yesterday? | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: yes i did, but i want others to provide their opinion as well | 18:10 |
| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: sure, I would really appreciate that | 18:10 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: cgoncalves: so the summary conclusion is that community is asking if traffic steering and service chaining should be the same thing | 18:10 |
| pgpus | You mean on traffic ssteering absraction? | 18:10 |
| cgoncalves | s3wong: traffic steering would accomplish the same use case as service chaining at the end | 18:11 |
| jmsoares | s3wong: not the same thing I guess, one is an enabler of the other. | 18:11 |
| cgoncalves | s3wong: service chaining is focused on neutron adv services whereas traffic steering on port chaining | 18:11 |
| s3wong | i.e., traffic steering as it is defined in the bp today seems to be a special case of service chaining (I am just reflecting on what the community came about :-) ) | 18:12 |
| pgpus | OK i subscribed to it and will reveiw the traffic steering too | 18:12 |
| s3wong | cgoncalves: jmsoares: you guys may want to clarify the differences, or see if the spec can combine with service chaining one | 18:13 |
| pgpus | So this week I should have my hands full with reviewing atleast 3 of 4 topivcs | 18:13 |
| jmsoares | s3wong: right. I guess that we started the BP with the "service chaining" in mind and as an ultimate goal. With time it evolved to be something more generic and, let's say, low level | 18:13 |
| cgoncalves | s3wong: the traffic steering BP was originally created to propose a different approach from the at the time original service chaining where you would create chains based on services and thus only supporting the existing services | 18:13 |
| cgoncalves | pgpus: thanks | 18:14 |
| s3wong | cgoncalves: jmsoares: I know :-) but we need further clarification for community to see it as such | 18:14 |
| cgoncalves | s3wong: ah, gotcha | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves jmsoares: to extend what s3wong was saying, people were asking if we can create the notion of a “generic services” wrapper that can be used in teh service chain | 18:14 |
| jmsoares | s3wong: agree :) the spec needs to reflect that and currently is not that clear | 18:14 |
| pgpus | Traffic steering needs to be dynamic as flow maps change so not sure if we can mix it up with service shaning which may be static | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | such that traffic steering need not have to be directly exposed to the user | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | in general people dont want to see two different ways of achieving service chains | 18:15 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | let me rephrase, two different ways of exposing service chains to the user | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and they prefer the higher level abstraction | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | this does not change a whole lot in terms of what we are already saying, or is in the spec | 18:17 |
| jmsoares | SumitNaiksatam: how high level is that abstraction? | 18:17 |
| pgpus | Not sure as service policy may require the srveice to be veiwed in different way, however abstractions must hide it, so may be we are same page | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | jmsoares: something similar to what is being discussed in: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93524 | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | however, that said, the general abstraction would need to capture the case where the service is on a VM, and neutron does not expose that service abstraction | 18:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so for now, lets focus in the review that has been submitted for this | 18:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i guess its a matter of considering whether the port chain API is tenant facing or just admin | 18:19 |
| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: ok, but that would be just a matter of whether exposing an API or not right? if so, we can create the core base and propose a user API too. either the API would be accepted or not that would be a thing not to worry much about | 18:20 |
| pgpus | Are this related to ServiceVM which is a sepoerate BP? | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | cgoncalves: yeah, i think we said the same thing :-) | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: Service VM is a whole beast in itself | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: we will leverage that | 18:20 |
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| cgoncalves | SumitNaiksatam: yes :-) | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pgpus: and most likely drive some requirements from this discussion | 18:21 |
| jmsoares | SumitNaiksatam: How would we in the high level abstraction perform a chaining sequence dependent on the type of traffic? | 18:21 |
| pgpus | OK I see, so let me just stick to the 4 topics and put my comments on them before next meeting to catchup with group | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong has been attending teh service VM meetings, and will try to sync up, others can participate as well | 18:21 |
| jmsoares | SumitNaiksatam: maybe is not how, but whether if it would be possible | 18:22 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: sure - the next meeting will resume on June 2nd, for anyone interested | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | jmsoares: good question, but the expectation is that there is some context to the chain | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | jmsoares: which will allow specifying the traffic classification (internally, not necessarily exposed to the user) | 18:22 |
| pgpus | You mean Monday June2 or or Wed june 4? | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok since we are running low on time (as usual) | 18:23 |
| s3wong | pgpus: ServiceVM meetings is on Tues 5:00 UTC | 18:23 |
| s3wong | so June 1st (sorry) | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i will skip the service chainig blueprint, since i saw mandeep drop off, but will try to get an update from him | 18:23 |
| jmsoares | SumitNaiksatam: but if that's done internally, Neutron must known "why" the chain is there | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Tap as a Service spec | 18:24 |
| pgpus | Sumit - thanks for all your info | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tap as a Service spec (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 18:24 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | jmsoares: lets continue discussion offline (sorry :-)) | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: quick summary? | 18:24 |
| jmsoares | SumitNaiksatam: sure, no prob :) | 18:24 |
| vinay_yadhav | i have mailed the initial version of the spec on the mailing list | 18:25 |
| s3wong | vinay_yahav: you have five minutes :-) | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: is this in gerrit? | 18:25 |
| vinay_yadhav | the blueprint intended to make it an extension, but in the spec we propose it as a service | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: ok | 18:25 |
| vinay_yadhav | as per the discussion we had in the summit | 18:25 |
| vinay_yadhav | sumit: not yet | 18:25 |
| vinay_yadhav | i will put it in tomorrow | 18:25 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: ok, great | 18:26 |
| vinay_yadhav | or tonight | 18:26 |
| s3wong | vinay_yadhav: you may want to put it on gerrit - and forget about the initial bp, it is irrelevant now since it was never on gerrit | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and perhaps you can add to the table so that we can track | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vinay_yadhav: thanks for the update | 18:26 |
| vinay_yadhav | s3wong: ok sure | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic NFV discussions | 18:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "NFV discussions (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 18:26 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | this subteam has started work | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and there are points of intersection with what we are trying to achieve here | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so we need to collaborate | 18:27 |
| s3wong | NFV meeting will be every Wed starting June 2nd at 1700 UTC, I believe | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i believe mestery will be participating in those meetings | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes | 18:27 |
| mestery | SumitNaiksatam: Yes, it's on my calendar and I plan to attend. | 18:28 |
| s3wong | or June 4th (again, what's up with my June 2nd typo)... | 18:28 |
| banix | day/time may change after the first meeting | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: thanks | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NFV | 18:28 |
| s3wong | 1400 UTC | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | see above ^^^ for details | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nfv-bof for summit discussion recap | 18:29 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Open Discussion | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking Advanced Services)" | 18:29 | |
| s3wong | got it wrong, because I remember it is 7am PDT, sorry guys | 18:29 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | anyone wants to bring up anything that we did not cover? | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it was great meeting everyone at Atlanta | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hope everyone had a pleasant flight back | 18:30 |
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| pgpus | no thanks | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | looks like we will actually wrap on time today! | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thats a first | 18:30 |
| s3wong | right on time! | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | not make the fwaas folks wait for a change | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | alright thanks everyone | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | until next week | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:31 | |
| cgoncalves | thanks. cya! | 18:31 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 21 18:31:15 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_advanced_services/2014/networking_advanced_services.2014-05-21-17.31.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_advanced_services/2014/networking_advanced_services.2014-05-21-17.31.txt | 18:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_advanced_services/2014/networking_advanced_services.2014-05-21-17.31.log.html | 18:31 |
| vinay_yadhav | thanx bye | 18:31 |
| arao012 | Bye | 18:31 |
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| s3wong | thanks! bye | 18:31 |
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| rkukura | bye | 18:31 |
| pgpus | thanks bye | 18:31 |
| kanzhe | later | 18:31 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK gduan beyounn_1: there? | 18:32 |
| SridarK | Hi SumitNaiksatam | 18:32 |
| beyounn_1 | yo | 18:32 |
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| SridarK | Hi All | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok great, lets get started | 18:32 |
| beyounn_1 | I'm here | 18:32 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | we can wrap up early if we dont need the entire hour | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:32 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 21 18:32:56 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:32 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:33 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic bugs | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:33 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1314313 | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: you are working on this | 18:34 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes - a bit slow this week | 18:34 |
| SridarK | i think we may have a corner case timing issue | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks for your effort | 18:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok | 18:35 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: no worries - will keep u posted on this | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: per salvatore’s comments, i am glad that this is not hitting the gate as much now | 18:35 |
| SridarK | i need to drive the workflow programattically to see if i can reproduce | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: but lets try to wrap this up, if its outside our control, we can create a different bug for the router | 18:35 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: sounds good | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1320775 | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | not sure if Rajesh is here | 18:36 |
| rand738 | Hi Sumit | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it was great that he got the fix in quickly: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94516/ | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rand738: hi | 18:37 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: I went thru the review - just need to validate on the deferred being turned off | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Rajesh’s fix looks good, but i just wanted to check if we can add a UT, so that we catch this | 18:37 |
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| SridarK | i will also post a review on this | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: nice! | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1310857 | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | looks like the author needs to address some comments | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | however this is high, may be we need to follow up with him | 18:40 |
| SridarK | Yes - i was not sure on the approach of getting the FWaaS Plugin on the agent | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1318617 | 18:41 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | havent investigated this | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but its currently low | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | if anyone wants to take it | 18:42 |
| SridarK | Hmm this is odd | 18:42 |
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| SridarK | fairly easy recreate - let me try a recreate and post comments on the bug | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: nice | 18:43 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Juno planning and feature tracking | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno planning and feature tracking (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:44 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | so my proposal is that we start tracking things in this meeting | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/FWaaS/JunoPlan | 18:44 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: +1 | 18:44 |
| beyounn_1 | +1 | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok cool | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i volunteered your names for a lot of things :-P | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | these are placeholders | 18:45 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: thats good | 18:45 |
| beyounn_1 | +1 | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | others can jump in | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but we need to be cognizant of the fact that these aspects need to be covered for every feature | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i havent checked if there are any tempest related pending blueprints, we would need to add those here | 18:46 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: spoke to mlavalle as well | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so we are in general agreement with the process of tracking here? | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: great | 18:46 |
| SridarK | he will be adding something for tempest scenario | 18:47 |
| SridarK | yes in agreement | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok | 18:47 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic proposed features’ and blueprints | 18:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "proposed features’ and blueprints (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:48 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | rather than going into each blueprint today, i suggest that we just have a general discussion | 18:49 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes that is better | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | is there any feedback that you folks got after our session | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ? | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i had to leave to catch the flight | 18:49 |
| beyounn_1 | other than dvr, no much from me | 18:49 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i thought it was well recvd - had a few folks come and talk after and looks like we are on track with our priorities | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: ok, again great that you brought it up | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: nice | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: suggestion - to get the DVR issue on record, can you send out an email to the mailing list? | 18:50 |
| beyounn_1 | I put it in the DVR ether pad already | 18:50 |
| beyounn_1 | and had an discussion with DVR forks this morning | 18:51 |
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| beyounn_1 | i will keep update based on the discussion | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: cool, but people might forget the etherpad (and its not searchable via google) | 18:51 |
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| beyounn_1 | Yes, let me collect all the feedbacks and thoughts then send an email | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: i would just say that you can copy paste your input in the etherpad and send to the dev mailer | 18:51 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: thanks | 18:51 |
| beyounn_1 | Sure | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: is there any solution apparent? | 18:52 |
| beyounn_1 | yes | 18:52 |
| beyounn_1 | That is what I want to talking about | 18:52 |
| beyounn_1 | Do we have time now? | 18:52 |
| beyounn_1 | I you prefer that I send an private email among all of us ? | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: sure | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: may be quick update, so that others who read these logs know what is going on | 18:53 |
| beyounn_1 | Since the br-int knows whether a packet has be routed or switched, so we can add something in the br-int to force the traffic to fw before the traffic hits on the DVR | 18:54 |
| beyounn_1 | I got two questions that is working on, 1 if we are not on router, then we don't don't have zone but just can use address book | 18:54 |
| beyounn_1 | even if we are using address book, how can we get the namespace info is something I'm still not clear | 18:55 |
| beyounn_1 | And I took action item to dicuss these with FWaaS team | 18:55 |
| beyounn_1 | Ok, this is the summary for this morning's meeting | 18:55 |
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| beyounn_1 | shot, bad bad typing | 18:56 |
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| beyounn_1 | can you guys understand what I have typed ? :-) | 18:57 |
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| SridarK | beyounn_1: ;-) | 18:57 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i am trying to :-P | 18:57 |
| SridarK | beyounn_1: perhaps more offline discussion | 18:57 |
| beyounn_1 | Ok, let's me send out email :-) | 18:57 |
| beyounn_1 | sorry, for the typing... | 18:57 |
| beyounn_1 | in a meeting ... :-) | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: i did not get the address book part, but that might just be terminology | 18:58 |
| beyounn_1 | think about subnets | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: ok, sorry to put you on the spot | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: you can follow up in your email | 18:58 |
| beyounn_1 | SumitNaiksatam: not at all | 18:58 |
| beyounn_1 | I will send email later today | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK gduan: any other feedback you received? | 19:00 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: had some discussion on Zones with some folks - mostly other vendors | 19:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok good, do agree with the idea? | 19:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | *do they | 19:01 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes we are aligned | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok good | 19:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | gduan: any discussions on the flavors? | 19:02 |
| gduan | Hi | 19:03 |
| gduan | Mark commented on the spec review and asked to added detail | 19:04 |
| gduan | Did Eugene put on his spec? | 19:04 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | gduan: eugene is on the road | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | gduan: so he has not updated his spec | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | gduan: i think he is going to be on the road at least for a week | 19:05 |
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| beyounn_1 | Gary is on customer call now | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | once eugene gets back, lets have a focussed meeting with the reviewers and hash out the details once and for all | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: sure np | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: is pradeep around? | 19:06 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Hmm i am not sure | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | I would like to understand if he has everything he needs to get started for the hit count bp | 19:07 |
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| SridarK | Based on conversations in the Summit he is good to get started | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | for starters he needs to file a gerrit spec so that we are all aligned in terms of what we want to do | 19:07 |
| SridarK | on the other stuff | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: good | 19:07 |
| SridarK | not hit count | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ah ok | 19:07 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: perhaps he can join next meeting? | 19:07 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i think their priority is to get the basic usage stats down | 19:08 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i will remind him | 19:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: that sounds like a good start | 19:08 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: as they have nothing right now and this was echoed in their Design session as well | 19:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: good | 19:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Vendor blueprints | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vendor blueprints (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 19:10 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | is Karthik here? | 19:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok hopefully he will join next week as well | 19:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so can you all add the vendor blueprints as topics on the table as well? | 19:11 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes will do | 19:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks | 19:11 |
| beyounn_1 | Ok | 19:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | things that we dont add to the table will fall off the radar and most likely not make it | 19:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: thanks | 19:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #open discussion | 19:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic open discussion | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 19:12 | |
| beyounn_1 | Sumit, how to get the bp spec approved? | 19:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: :-) | 19:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: you mean the service objects? | 19:13 |
| beyounn_1 | Yes | 19:13 |
| SridarK | beyounn_1: i added some comments to ur review | 19:13 |
| beyounn_1 | Saw it | 19:13 |
| beyounn_1 | I will updated | 19:13 |
| beyounn_1 | s/updated/update/ | 19:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: our best chance is as a team | 19:13 |
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| SridarK | beyounn_1: we can do the internal reviews and get the +1 first to push for cores as Sumit mentioned in the prev mtg | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: i mean we all review each other’s blueprints and provide enough information for cores to act on this | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah like SridarK said | 19:14 |
| beyounn_1 | Ok, let's clean up my spec ASAP | 19:14 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: which was really like u said :-) | 19:14 |
| beyounn_1 | s/let's/let me/ | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: any chance that you can get your potential “users” to look at this as well? | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: :-) | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | my comment is in general | 19:14 |
| beyounn_1 | SumitNaiksatam: don't think so | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i would strongly suggest that we involve potential users in this, and let them drive the requirements | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: ah, ok | 19:15 |
| beyounn_1 | SumitNaiksatam: but I will try, harmless anyway | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | it becomes much easier to prioritize when its requirements driven | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn_1: i think its critical | 19:16 |
| beyounn_1 | SumitNaiksatam: agreed | 19:16 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: also perhaps some folks filing bugs now are potential users | 19:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yes, reach out to them :-) | 19:16 |
| SridarK | yes will do | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | in general, the more people we get to do meaningful reviews, the better our chances | 19:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | it was mentioned during the summit discussions that meaningful +1s also carry a lot of weight | 19:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok what else? | 19:18 |
| beyounn_1 | I'm good | 19:18 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: thats all from me as well | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | great, thanks eveyrone, it was great meeting you in Atlanta | 19:18 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | onward to Juno! ;-) | 19:18 |
| beyounn_1 | :-) | 19:18 |
| SridarK | yes sam here | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | see you next week, bye | 19:18 |
| SridarK | same | 19:18 |
| SridarK | bye | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:19 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 21 19:19:01 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:19 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-05-21-18.32.html | 19:19 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-05-21-18.32.txt | 19:19 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-05-21-18.32.log.html | 19:19 |
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| mike-grima1 | Hello, is the FWaaS meeting today? | 22:46 |
| s3wong_ | mike-grima1: yes, but about 4 hours ago | 22:46 |
| mike-grima1 | ooh. that website that shows the time said it was at 6:30 | 22:48 |
| mike-grima1 | only i'm EST, so it's 2:30 | 22:48 |
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| s3wong_ | mike-grima1: I think it is 18:30 UTC, which is 11:30 PDT, or 14:30 EDT | 22:50 |
| s3wong_ | mike-grima1: all OpenStack meeting time posted are in UTC - so it isn't affected by daylight saving time | 22:51 |
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