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| danpb | #startmeeting libvirt | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 15:00:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is danpb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'libvirt' | 15:00 |
| thomasem | o/ | 15:01 |
| danpb | well we have no agenda items today... | 15:01 |
| vladikr | o/ | 15:01 |
| apmelton | o/ | 15:01 |
| danpb | someone add some items if they want to talk about anything... | 15:01 |
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| danpb | ( https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-libvirt-meeting-agenda ) | 15:01 |
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| ndipanov | o/ | 15:02 |
| sew | o/ | 15:02 |
| sgordon | O/ | 15:02 |
| lparth | o/ | 15:02 |
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| danpb | #topic open discussion | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: libvirt)" | 15:03 | |
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| danpb | since there are no formal agenda items, speak now if you want to mention anything...otherwise this'll be a short meeting :-) | 15:04 |
| thomasem | danpb: sew just added one about nested Docker support in Libvirt LXC containers | 15:04 |
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| sew | really just curious if anyone has been able to get nested docker to run inside libvirt lxc containers? | 15:04 |
| s1rp | o/ | 15:04 |
| danpb | i've never tried it myself | 15:05 |
| danpb | nested containers is getting into the uncharted waters in general though | 15:05 |
| sew | there seem to be cgroup differences between lxc and libvirt_lxc which cause docker layering features to fail | 15:06 |
| apmelton | docker does some mounting inside of the containers it builds right? | 15:06 |
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| apmelton | if we're revoking mount capability inside libvirt-lxc containers, that won't work | 15:07 |
| danpb | if you can get it working on lxc but not libvirt-lxc then do file bugs against libvirt - probably best to try it in plain libvirt rather than under nova | 15:07 |
| s1rp | apmelton: cap_sys_admin isn't dropped at least for libvirt, but for docker it is | 15:08 |
| sew | i do see where mknod is dropped tho: http://libvirt.org/git/?p=libvirt.git;a=blob;f=src/lxc/lxc_container.c;h=fd8ab167f8945d33ba6f82e6f0aed84814fa98c0;hb=HEAD#l1746 | 15:08 |
| apmelton | ah yes, that's what I was thinking of | 15:09 |
| sew | my testing with nested docker was done with just libvirt-1.2.3 | 15:09 |
| sew | i commented out those dropped caps, but was still unable to make docker layer images successfully | 15:10 |
| vladikr | danpb, I was playing a bit with libosinfo recently, and curious what was your vision of it to be used with image properties? should everything be validated against it? | 15:10 |
| sew | the only other differences i noticed were with regard to cgroup layouts | 15:10 |
| danpb | vladikr: so my view is that in glance we should set os_id=<libosinfo OS identifier> and then Nova libvirt driver should use that to lookup preferred hardware models | 15:11 |
| danpb | vladikr: ie so it'd use virtio net for linux, e1000 for bsd or whatever libosinfo says for preferred nic | 15:11 |
| danpb | so it would avoid needing to set things like hw_nic_model and other similar bits in common case | 15:12 |
| vladikr | I see, thanks | 15:13 |
| apmelton | so danpb, about the spec for user namespaces, I guess I need to get mikal to revoke his -2 on it so it can actually get approved | 15:14 |
| danpb | yep, guess he's missed our followup comment | 15:15 |
| danpb | nothing will get approved this weekend regardless though until Juno-1 is out | 15:15 |
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| apmelton | yup | 15:15 |
| apmelton | a couple of my other patches we're pushed to J2 | 15:15 |
| danpb | ok, so i guess we can finish the meeting and get back to regular work | 15:17 |
| danpb | #endmeeting | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:17 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 15:17:36 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:17 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-06-10-15.00.html | 15:17 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-06-10-15.00.txt | 15:17 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/libvirt/2014/libvirt.2014-06-10-15.00.log.html | 15:17 |
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| thomasem | take it easy! | 15:19 |
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| jpich | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 16:00:24 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jpich. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:00 |
| jpich | Hi everyone | 16:00 |
| rdopieralski | hi | 16:00 |
| jpich | Our esteemed PTL is away so I'll be chairing the meeting this time around | 16:00 |
| absubram | hi | 16:00 |
| hurgleburgler | Hi | 16:01 |
| tsufiev | hi | 16:01 |
| tzumainn | hiya! | 16:01 |
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| ericpeterson | hi | 16:01 |
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| jpich | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon | 16:01 |
| jcoufal | o/ | 16:02 |
| devlaps | o/ | 16:02 |
| jpich | A short agenda this time around but I'm sure we'll manage to make the meeting last the full hour anyway :-) | 16:02 |
| jpich | #topic Juno Milestone 1 | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno Milestone 1 (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:02 | |
| jpich | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-1 | 16:02 |
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| jpich | The first milestone for Juno should be cut tomorrow so anything that's not approved or about to be has been moved to Juno-2 by now (if I made a mistake feel free to go ahead and correct it though) | 16:03 |
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| jpich | And speaking of Juno 2... | 16:04 |
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| jpich | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-2 | 16:04 |
| jpich | There's a huuuuuge list of blueprints there already | 16:04 |
| jpich | but luckily a lot already have code up for review | 16:04 |
| jpich | It'd be cool if people could consider reviewing the patches for a blueprint or two in their review rounds so we can start munching through the list | 16:05 |
| jpich | Lots of people wait for Feature Freeze Proposal to propose their blueprints and miss the release because there's not enough time to review them all | 16:05 |
| jpich | So let's try to merge blueprints early while we have a chance :) Thanks everyone. Review help is really greatly greatly appreciated always | 16:05 |
| lblanchard | o/ | 16:05 |
| jpich | FYI according to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule Juno-2 will likely be cut around July 22nd-24th | 16:06 |
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| jpich | Any related questions? | 16:06 |
| nlahouti__ | jpich: how can the deleivery status be changed? | 16:07 |
| jpich | nlahouti__: Do you mean the status for a blueprint? | 16:07 |
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| nlahouti__ | jpich: yes. mine shows unknown but it should be in 'needs code review' | 16:08 |
| jpich | nlahouti__: Oh! Do you have a link? | 16:08 |
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| jpich | The assignee should be able to do that | 16:08 |
| jpich | and members of the core team, and normally Gerrit does it automatically but sometimes it doesn't work... | 16:08 |
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| nlahouti__ | jpich: sure. here it is:https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-cisco-dfa-support | 16:09 |
| tzumainn | might be because it's still in drafting state? | 16:09 |
| jpich | nlahouti__: Ok, as the assignee you should be able to change the implementation status? Can you give it a shot to see if it works? | 16:09 |
| nlahouti__ | tzumainn: and what does it mean? | 16:09 |
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| tzumainn | lol, no idea, that just looked different to me : ) | 16:10 |
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| nlahouti__ | jpich: sure will try that. | 16:10 |
| tzumainn | or does it need to be approved? | 16:10 |
| jpich | Dunno, Gerrit did add the usual "Addressed by" comments | 16:11 |
| nlahouti__ | tzumainn: I don't know either, but it needs to be approved. | 16:11 |
| jpich | nlahouti__: I updated the status for now | 16:11 |
| nlahouti__ | jpich: Thanks a lot. | 16:12 |
| jpich | No problems! | 16:12 |
| jpich | Any other questions about milestones? | 16:12 |
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| jpich | #topic How to vote for names | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "How to vote for names (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:13 | |
| jpich | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-name-proposals | 16:13 |
| jpich | Who proposed this topic? | 16:13 |
| rdopieralski | me | 16:13 |
| rdopieralski | so now that we have a list of names to choose from | 16:14 |
| jpich | Cool! Consider putting your name besides the topic in the agenda :-) | 16:14 |
| rdopieralski | we should decide how to vote for them | 16:14 |
| rdopieralski | yes, sorry, I forgot | 16:14 |
| rdopieralski | does anybody have their favorite poll service? | 16:14 |
| rdopieralski | or is there something official? | 16:15 |
| clu_ | surkeymonkey | 16:15 |
| jpich | I think we've used Launchpad polls for very simple polls like that in the past | 16:15 |
| jpich | like release names? | 16:15 |
| * rdopieralski looks at launchpad | 16:15 | |
| jpich | I'd recommend that 2-3 who've been involved with the work so far get together and reduce the list to 4-6 names though | 16:15 |
| jpich | some of the names look a little like they were proposed by people who don't understand what part of the split we were talking about | 16:16 |
| rdopieralski | I suppose the conflicting names are out right away | 16:16 |
| jpich | Yup | 16:16 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: do you know how to set up a poll on launchpad? | 16:16 |
| jpich | The kind folks on #openstack-infra can probably provide assistance for setting up the poll, I'm not quite sure where it is either | 16:16 |
| tzumainn | actually, can we address that a bit? | 16:16 |
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| tzumainn | because I know there was an option to keep horizon as horizon, and rename the dashboard instead | 16:17 |
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| rdopieralski | tzumainn: but nobody wanted to discuss the technical details of that | 16:17 |
| tzumainn | which I was gently reminded doesn't work with the proposal to split | 16:17 |
| doug-fish | sorry about that - I suggested it without realizing the full impact | 16:17 |
| doug-fish | I think there are other reasonable options that are less troublesome | 16:17 |
| rdopieralski | doug-fish: can you elaborate? | 16:18 |
| jpich | There was a strong argument at some point that to everyone except the folks working on the codebase (us), "horizon" means what we call "openstack_dashboard" | 16:18 |
| tzumainn | just to check then - the two benefits of naming the dashboard 'horizon' is that we reduce the impact on a bunch of infrastructure, and what jpich just said? | 16:18 |
| rdopieralski | tzumainn: pretty much, yes | 16:19 |
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| tzumainn | fair enough, I can buy that - I just remember when the naming of the tuskar ui came up, people eventually agreed that the simple solution would be the best - tripleo-ui - but that seems inconsistent with what we're doing here | 16:20 |
| doug-fish | I think using the horizon name to mean the actual dashboard impl and horizon_lib to mean the library is quite clear | 16:20 |
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| tzumainn | but people are right, 'horizon' is established, so I don't really care that much | 16:20 |
| ericpeterson | some things are also wierd.... when someone says "this is built upon horizon"..... that becomes vaugue | 16:20 |
| doug-fish | I'm sure that there will be other reasonable options we can vote for as well | 16:20 |
| rdopieralski | doug-fish: I don't that things that have actual technical impact should be voted upon -- it usually ends up with bikeshedding | 16:22 |
| jpich | ericpeterson: Hopefully the split/renaming will help to clarify though this may be a good argument against having "horizon" + "horizon_lib" :) | 16:22 |
| clu_ | ericpeterson - http://docs.openstack.org/developer/horizon/topics/tutorial.html will have to change :) | 16:22 |
| ericpeterson | I think the confusion will be cleared up in time, it's not a huge deal | 16:22 |
| doug-fish | I think I'm getting confused right now | 16:22 |
| rdopieralski | clu_: can you add it to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-split-plan please? | 16:22 |
| clu_ | rdopieralski: sure thing :) | 16:23 |
| rdopieralski | another thing is how the voting shuld be done | 16:23 |
| rdopieralski | does everybody get just one vote? | 16:23 |
| rdopieralski | or can we pick the best, say, three? | 16:23 |
| rdopieralski | (it depends on what launchpad offers, of course) | 16:24 |
| jpich | I'd say to keep it to one to keep it simple. My question would be "who is everybody"? :-) | 16:24 |
| ericpeterson | it kinda depends upon how robust our voting tool might be? | 16:24 |
| rdopieralski | anybody who stumbles upon it :) | 16:24 |
| tzumainn | lol | 16:24 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: I think launchpad only offers "vote for the best" but if you/folks are keen on weighted voting we could maybe reuse the condorcet thingie we used for elections | 16:24 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: In the worst case I will just set up a wiki page, and ask people to add X-es | 16:24 |
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| tsufiev | rdopieralski, i'd limit voters to the people who contributed to horizon codebase | 16:25 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: haha, as long as they add their nick too for tracking why not | 16:25 |
| jpich | tsufiev: This also affects people who build on top of us though | 16:25 |
| ericpeterson | can I switch doug-fish's votes then? ;) | 16:25 |
| jpich | and they are the folks that made good points like what "horizon" means to people who are not actually working on the codebase | 16:25 |
| tsufiev | jpich, agree, didn't think of it | 16:25 |
| rdopieralski | tsufiev: who is going to prepare the list of such people then? | 16:26 |
| doug-fish | ericpeterson: only if you can figure out all of my pseudonyms! | 16:26 |
| rdopieralski | ericpeterson: wiki has history | 16:26 |
| rdopieralski | ericpeterson: which can be checked | 16:26 |
| tsufiev | rdopieralski, afaik, the invitation to the voting for horizon PTL was sent only to contributors | 16:26 |
| rdopieralski | ericpeterson: also, I don't think this is such a big and important thing that anybody would cheat | 16:26 |
| doug-fish | agreed | 16:27 |
| ericpeterson | yeah, I was teasing a bit :D | 16:27 |
| rdopieralski | tsufiev: ok, I will ask at -infra about it too | 16:27 |
| jpich | I think on Launchpad folks get only one vote per LP account | 16:27 |
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| jpich | rdopieralski: Are you happy enough you have the next steps for the name change voting? | 16:29 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: yes, thank you | 16:29 |
| jpich | Cool! | 16:30 |
| jpich | #topic Open Discussion | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:30 | |
| * rdopieralski is extremely happy | 16:30 | |
| tzumainn | I have a question about common dashboard code | 16:30 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: I am utterly delighted to hear this | 16:30 |
| tzumainn | I started a thread about it on openstack-dev, got a few responses, and then had a question using concrete examples - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/036998.html | 16:30 |
| tzumainn | so I was curious if people had opinions : ) | 16:30 |
| tzumainn | or should I just submit a patch and let people opine in that fashion? | 16:32 |
| doug-fish | tzumainn: its hard for me to ask this right while we are changing names ... but are you saying there are openstack_dashboard pieces that you use as building blocks? | 16:32 |
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| jpich | tzumainn: The way admin and project tables extend each other's tables probably could use some refactoring,yeah... though I don't have specific opinion as to the best way would be to go about this at this point | 16:32 |
| ericpeterson | yeah, there is a common pattern I think for taking something from openstack_dashboard.... and doing a slightly modified copy of that | 16:33 |
| tzumainn | doug-fish, yes, exactly - well, there are openstack_dashboard dashboard pieces that tripleo-ui extends, which feels peculiar | 16:33 |
| tzumainn | ericpeterson, is there a canonical pattern I should duplicate? | 16:33 |
| doug-fish | doesn't that mean that openstack_dashboard itself is part of the toolkit then? | 16:33 |
| ericpeterson | not that I can think of..... I have seen the same problem / situation | 16:33 |
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| tzumainn | so david-lyle mentioned that creating openstack_dashboard/common seemed reasonable to him | 16:34 |
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| ericpeterson | it's kind of like the common toolkit, then common openstack type things.... then the openstack_dashboard or tuskar ui etc | 16:34 |
| tzumainn | yeah, that would be excellent, but I'm not clear as to the extent that things would end up in the common toolkit | 16:35 |
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| mxu | Hi jpich: we have this BP https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-cisco-dfa-support for quite a while and code patch @ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83863/, which got some review comments. How can close the reviews and have the BPs approved? | 16:35 |
| doug-fish | tzumainn: your usage makes me wonder why we are working so hard to split the components. I know other people who want to consume dashboard panels and make only small modificaitons to them | 16:35 |
| ericpeterson | I think eventually the openstack_dashboard (level 3) would be an empty file :o | 16:35 |
| tzumainn | er, "should" end up - which is what my email asks, so just wondering if people had opinions before I just went ahead and tried something | 16:35 |
| doug-fish | maybe we should treat every panel as a potential extension point | 16:35 |
| tzumainn | ericpeterson, yeah, that was my fear as well | 16:35 |
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| tsufiev | it code at level 2 is so common, shouldn't it be moved to level 1? | 16:36 |
| tzumainn | doug-fish, so in that sense, openstack_dashboard dashboard code in project and admin is both the "openstack ui" and the intended point of extension? | 16:36 |
| tsufiev | *if | 16:36 |
| jpich | tzumainn, doug-fish: There was a somewhat related blueprint proposed by Cody Sommerville after the Portland summit but I'm struggling to find it back atm, maybe someone else will have better luck | 16:36 |
| rdopieralski | I have one more question about the voting | 16:36 |
| doug-fish | tzumainn yes | 16:36 |
| rdopieralski | I need a list of e-mails of peole who are to vote -- what do you think guys would be the best way to complete it? | 16:37 |
| rdopieralski | just go over the patches from the last year? | 16:37 |
| ericpeterson | rdopieralski: I would see if the infra group has list of contributors??? | 16:37 |
| ericpeterson | same as PTL votes maybe??? | 16:38 |
| ericpeterson | would it make sense to limit to only recent contributors??? | 16:38 |
| tzumainn | jpich, thanks, I'll poke around a bit | 16:38 |
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| rdopieralski | ericpeterson: they don't | 16:39 |
| jpich | mxu: Sorry about this, the review queue is quite large at the moment so we're behind. It'd be great to get input on the blueprint from folks more familiar with Neutron like maybe amotoki? I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, I'll try next week if no one's approved the bp yet | 16:39 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: So we're going only with horizon contributors then? | 16:39 |
| doug-fish | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/building-on-openstack-dashboard | 16:39 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: I'm open to suggestions, but I need a list of e-mails | 16:40 |
| doug-fish | jpich, is that the one you were thinking of? ^ | 16:40 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: it's the easiest to get the horizon contributors at this moment | 16:40 |
| amotoki_ | mxu: jpich: I totally forgot the horizon meeting time :-( | 16:40 |
| jpich | doug-fish: That one! Thanks :D | 16:40 |
| gary-smith | git shortlog -s -e shows emails of contributor | 16:40 |
| rdopieralski | gary-smith: thank you! | 16:41 |
| gary-smith | can be limited by time range | 16:41 |
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| amotoki_ | mxu: is neutron side patch of DFA merged? | 16:41 |
| nlahouti__ | amotoki: not yet. | 16:42 |
| amotoki_ | mxu: As we discussed in the previous meetings, we can approve the bp but the code can't be merged before merging the corresponding dependent feature. | 16:42 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: I think the actual query they use for generating the voters list are on the wiki on one of the governance pages | 16:42 |
| mxu | jpich: thanks for offering to review it! we actually talked to amotoki at the summit and thru many emails. We are getting close to juno-2 cutoff time so really would like to close this | 16:42 |
| jpich | amotoki_, mxu: Oh is this the same as last week? As amotoki said, if the Neutron isn't merged the code cannot merge in Horizon | 16:43 |
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| amotoki_ | jpich: mxu: i think so. | 16:43 |
| jpich | mxu: Note that I'm only talking about trying to understand the bp, not the code :-) Blueprint draft/approval statuses are not used all that much in horizon either way, is my impression... | 16:43 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: I will look for it, and if I don't find it, I will use git | 16:43 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: Yup it was a git query | 16:44 |
| rdopieralski | ah | 16:44 |
| mxu | amotoki: our BP for neutron has been approved. nlahouti is going to post hist code for MD very soon. Can you please approve this Horizon BP? We are just asking for approving the BP, not merging the code. We will merge it after we merge our neutron code. Hope this makes it clear. | 16:44 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: If it's a launchpad poll maybe we can use the umbrella openstack project as the allowed voter list? At least it'd be a bit larger than horizon's though I don't know who's included in that either | 16:45 |
| * jpich starting to warm up again to the wiki page vote lol | 16:45 | |
| rdopieralski | jpich: no, it's civs | 16:45 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: it lets you rank all entries by preference, by the way | 16:45 |
| jpich | Ok, so people will get an email about it. I think it's fair enough to only send the email to recentish contributors rather than everyone ever | 16:46 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: Yeah, it's used for the people elections | 16:46 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: for launchpad, you need to be the group admin to start a poll | 16:46 |
| rdopieralski | jpich: and the groups are hopelessly out of sync with "reality" | 16:46 |
| * jpich fails to open a poll | 16:46 | |
| jpich | I see | 16:46 |
| rdopieralski | so either civs or something like survemonkey | 16:46 |
| rdopieralski | but I would hate to force people to signup to commercial services | 16:47 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: That's the link I was thinking about fwiw https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Election_Officiating_Guidelines#Generate_a_list_of_voters | 16:47 |
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| jpich | mxu: Thanks for the clarification! | 16:48 |
| amotoki_ | I would like to ask who approves blueprints. AFAIK in horizon PTL approves almost all blueprints. | 16:48 |
| rdopieralski | that gives 213 addresses | 16:48 |
| tzumainn | out of curiosity, would an etherpad be really so terrible for voting? or would we be expecting massive voter fraud. . . ? | 16:48 |
| rdopieralski | I think it may be enough | 16:48 |
| gary-smith | etherpad seems like the simplest approach | 16:49 |
| jpich | mxu: Also please add a link in the blueprint to the dependent neutron patches so reviewers can check the statuses | 16:49 |
| rdopieralski | tzumainn: I was thinking about doing it on the etherpad initially, until *someone* completely derailed the name collecting | 16:49 |
| mxu | jpich, amotoki: how can we make progress with the BP approval? It has been there for a long time. | 16:49 |
| tzumainn | lol, my bad | 16:49 |
| rdopieralski | tzumainn: then I began to have doubts about the ability of people to follow guidelines | 16:49 |
| tzumainn | I shall wash my neck and wait | 16:49 |
| mxu | jpich: will add the link soon. | 16:49 |
| tzumainn | I would think if you started a new etherpad with a culled list of names, send out an email saying that the time for option gathering is over, please just +1 one of the available options - that may work? | 16:50 |
| ericpeterson | rdopieralski : I think if we have the email list, surveymonkey or whatever would likely work... the more I think about it | 16:50 |
| jpich | amotoki: I think anyone in core can and should do it | 16:50 |
| rdopieralski | ericpeterson: it requires you to sign up | 16:51 |
| rdopieralski | ericpeterson: and civs is proven | 16:51 |
| jpich | amotoki: But we haven't so the PTL has had to pick up the slack. As long as it seems to fit I don't see a problem with approving | 16:51 |
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| jpich | I wouldn't be too keen on using etherpad for a vote but maybe I just lack faith in humanity :) | 16:51 |
| amotoki_ | AFAIK we haven't discussed the concrete blueprint approval process so far... I believe bleurprint approval by core team works, but it is better to be discussed in the meeting. | 16:51 |
| doug-fish | I promise to behave better if we use the etherpad again | 16:52 |
| tzumainn | jpich, no, I promise I won't commit etherpad fraud this time, unlike the previous million times | 16:52 |
| gary-smith | if we put our email addresses next to our vote in etherpad, it would avoid fraud | 16:52 |
| gary-smith | those addresses could be filtered against the list from git | 16:53 |
| tzumainn | I mean, people were fairly well behaved when voting for summit sessions, right? | 16:53 |
| rdopieralski | I think it would just be enough to put an * next to the names you like | 16:54 |
| gary-smith | oh wait, unless doug-fish changes everyone's votes. forgot about that | 16:54 |
| jpich | amotoki: I think spreading the load on more people is good, especially if a core is interested in helping to drive a particular blueprint. Looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Blueprint_Review_Criteria any core should be equipped to do that... but I get your point, maybe we should discuss it first on list or in a meeting when the PTL is back | 16:54 |
| absubram | +1 | 16:54 |
| amotoki_ | jpich: totally agree. | 16:54 |
| tzumainn | rdopieralski, I'd be fine with that | 16:55 |
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| doug-fish | gary-smith: oh its not that I'm dishonest. I just don't follow guidelines. ericpeterson is the one you need to look out for. | 16:55 |
| absubram | amotoki_: not sure if you had time to read through the comments I posted in response to your review comments.. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90093/ I tried the nice idea you suggested.. but I don't see a way without changing the test/settings.py.. | 16:55 |
| jpich | tzumainn: I'd hope to make the poll wider known than the summit sessions vote, more people == more chances stupid | 16:55 |
| ericpeterson | I'm trying to find the conversion between *'s and +1's | 16:55 |
| absubram | amotoki_: I'm still trying to see if it is doable though.. marked it as WIP for now | 16:56 |
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| absubram | but please do let me know your thoughts on my comments.. whenever you are able to get a chance | 16:56 |
| absubram | thanks! | 16:56 |
| jpich | rdopieralski: civs + 1 year list of horizon contributors seems fair enough to me so that we can actually vote rather than have a vote on how to vote :-) I'll leave it in your good hands though! | 16:56 |
| mxu | jpich, amotoki: really appreciate it if you can have the discussions (on core folks help approving the BPs) soon as we missed the juno-1 already and time is flying | 16:57 |
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| * jpich proposes averaging etherpad + wiki + LP polls results on which tool to use to vote | 16:57 | |
| tzumainn | lol | 16:58 |
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| jpich | mxu: Sure, but this isn't actually blocking your work, or am I missing something? | 16:58 |
| amotoki_ | mxu: it seems your blueprint fits to Juno-2 only when considering horizon side. I think it totally depends on neutron whether it actually lands in juno-2 :-) | 16:59 |
| jpich | Agreed with amotoki | 16:59 |
| jpich | I had another exciting topic down my sleeve but it looks like it'll have to wait until next week ;) It's about time to wrap up | 17:00 |
| mxu | jpich: again, we are asking for BP approve so we see the agreement from the community on our design. Our MD code will be posted for review soon. | 17:00 |
| jpich | Thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| doug-fish | well done on filling the hour! | 17:00 |
| tzumainn | thanks all! | 17:00 |
| jpich | mxu: Ok, fair enough | 17:00 |
| jpich | doug-fish: toldya | 17:00 |
| jpich | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 17:00:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-06-10-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-06-10-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-06-10-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| amotoki_ | thanks all. | 17:01 |
| thinrichs | Anyone here for Congress? | 17:01 |
| absubram | thanks | 17:01 |
| pballand | yo | 17:01 |
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| sarob | yup | 17:01 |
| banix | hi | 17:01 |
| kudva | hey | 17:01 |
| thinrichs | Hi all | 17:01 |
| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 17:01:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:01 |
| thinrichs | So let’s start with action items from last week. | 17:01 |
| thinrichs | kudva: how are the builtins progressing? | 17:02 |
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| kudva | I completed the basic builtin with many rounds of comments from Tim | 17:03 |
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| thinrichs | And it was merged! | 17:03 |
| kudva | sending link in a minute | 17:03 |
| kudva | Thanks a lot! | 17:03 |
| banix | great | 17:04 |
| kudva | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97673/ | 17:04 |
| kudva | So there were more comments, especially | 17:04 |
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| kudva | one cool thing I learned about python (storing a function in a class), and then calling it via code(*arglist): thanks Tim :) | 17:04 |
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| kudva | But I messed up some rebasing and so we are missing some commits in the full patch set | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | Python can be fun! | 17:05 |
| kudva | Now the next step is to | 17:05 |
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| kudva | take a real use case where I can apply builtin | 17:05 |
| rajdeep | hi guys | 17:05 |
| kudva | I was hoping sjcazzoll would be here. the host evacuation example would be a good one (but I have others in mind as well) | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | hi rajdeep | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | sjcazzoll sends his regrets. | 17:06 |
| kudva | where one can combine predicates such as x > 10 (where 10 may be the number of alerts from a host) | 17:06 |
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| thinrichs | rajdeep: we just started hearing about kudva’s progress on builtins. | 17:06 |
| kudva | with other predicates | 17:06 |
| rajdeep | ok.. | 17:06 |
| kudva | hi rajdeep | 17:06 |
| rajdeep | hi kudva | 17:07 |
| kudva | So my next items: | 17:07 |
| kudva | 1. hook builtin to runtime.py | 17:07 |
| thinrichs | kudva: sjcazzoll’s use case may very well need the builtins. Builtins are definitely important in practice. | 17:07 |
| kudva | 2. an example such as host evactuation with builtins (have to think if we need ceilometer integration). will craft an example | 17:08 |
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| thinrichs | Sounds good. I was looking into (1) today, since it requires knowledge deep into the policy engine. | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | I’ll let you know what I figure out. | 17:09 |
| kudva | I need a bit of tutorail on runtime.py | 17:09 |
| kudva | if that is possible | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | May require a phone call. | 17:10 |
| kudva | Mainly want a quick overview of the four classes there. | 17:10 |
| kudva | okay | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Let me know if that’s useful for you. | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Let’s move on to rajdeep. | 17:10 |
| kudva | Yes, it would be. Perhaps the whole team may be interested | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: how did the data source docs go? | 17:10 |
| rajdeep | i have added details for nova | 17:11 |
| banix | a hangout meeting may be useful | 17:11 |
| rajdeep | and got feedback from sergio | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | kudva: I’m guessing that’s something people will only want to understand if they want to modify the policy engine. | 17:11 |
| kudva | okay, I am interested for sure | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | Anyone who wants an overview: email me: thinrichs@vmware.com | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: sorry for the interruption. please continue | 17:12 |
| rajdeep | sergio's use case needs host status which is not available in Nova | 17:12 |
| rajdeep | looks like we will need to build driver for ceilometer to get that data | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | It just doesn’t exist in Nova, or the driver we have doesn’t extract it? | 17:13 |
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| rajdeep | it doesn't exist in nova | 17:13 |
| kudva | We can either get host status from ceilometer or monitor nova notifications | 17:13 |
| kudva | for host | 17:13 |
| rajdeep | i checked the json returned | 17:13 |
| kudva | Ceilometer actually gets the host status from nova "compute-metrics-update" notifications | 17:14 |
| pballand | so does nova expose it on the message bus but not in REST? | 17:14 |
| rajdeep | looks like | 17:14 |
| skn_ | Oh, finally I got into this room | 17:14 |
| rajdeep | it exposes in message bus | 17:14 |
| rajdeep | should driver be looking for message bus notifications as well? | 17:14 |
| kudva | ceilometer just picks up the nova notifications for host. We can get this from the notification bus or ceilometer api | 17:15 |
| pballand | rajdeep: that is reasonable, but how would it bootstrap initial state? | 17:15 |
| banix | ideally the monitoring engine should do that | 17:15 |
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| thinrichs | cloudtoad has been working on adding the ability to listen on the usual OS message bus. | 17:15 |
| pballand | banix: what do you mean by monitoring engine? ceilometer? | 17:15 |
| banix | pballand: yes | 17:15 |
| kudva | pballand: what do you mean by bootstrap initial state? | 17:15 |
| rajdeep | i guess writing ceilometer driver would be cleaner design | 17:16 |
| pballand | kudva: if all you get are updates, what is the initial state (when congress starts after nova has been running) | 17:16 |
| rajdeep | so that we stick to REST | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: agreed that having a driver for ceilometer would be cleaner. | 17:16 |
| rajdeep | what do you guys think | 17:16 |
| kudva | pballand: ceilometer will give you a snapshot of the current situation of the metric, which it gets from notifications usually | 17:17 |
| banix | rajdeep: agree | 17:17 |
| kudva | rajdeep: agree | 17:17 |
| rajdeep | another problem is the ceilometer metrics are very closely tied to kvm | 17:17 |
| pballand | long term, the message bus is a more efficient means of receiving updates - but sticking with REST initially simplifies the design | 17:17 |
| skn_ | Does ceilometer maintain the current state of the hosts? | 17:17 |
| pballand | rajdeep: that sounds like a blueprint for ceilometer to handle :) | 17:18 |
| rajdeep | e.g host status doesn't make sense if we use vCenter behind nova | 17:18 |
| rajdeep | skn_ : i think so it does | 17:18 |
| pballand | rajdeep: wouldn’t ceilometer handle that? | 17:18 |
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| skn_ | rajdeep: I meant, all vhosts, not just kvm | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: the policy engine needs to trust the data it’s given from components. If the user doesn’t like that data, it should be reflected in the policy. | 17:19 |
| skn_ | banix: hi, did you see my reply to your email? | 17:20 |
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| banix | skn_: hi; yes | 17:20 |
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| thinrichs | Perhaps this is a good transition to the use case action item. | 17:20 |
| kudva | So take an example: if I have a ceilometer plugin that monitors number of fan alerts (or some other hardware alerts), and ceilometer puts it onto notification for the collector to pick up. How does vcenter fit into this? | 17:20 |
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| banix | skn_: will respond; sorry for delay | 17:20 |
| skn_ | banix: great, may be we can catch up on some of that at a later time this week | 17:21 |
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| banix | skn_: sounds good | 17:21 |
| rajdeep-1 | sorry got disconnected | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | We had talked about adding a list of data sources for each of the use cases. | 17:21 |
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| thinrichs | We had also talked about solicting feedback on them. | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ExDmT06vDZjzOPePYBqojMRfXodvsk0R8nRkX-zrkSw/edit# | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | I see there’s been a bunch of editing. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | sarob, skn_: want to report? | 17:22 |
| skn_ | I was mostly looking at the specs and other docs | 17:22 |
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| skn_ | I have some comments, not sure how to put them in | 17:23 |
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| thinrichs | How about the usual gdoc comments? | 17:23 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: specs that you wrote up | 17:23 |
| skn_ | Is there a gdoc for comments? | 17:23 |
| sarob | i gots very typy | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | sarob: :) | 17:24 |
| sarob | hmm, looking for the gdoc link | 17:24 |
| sarob | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ExDmT06vDZjzOPePYBqojMRfXodvsk0R8nRkX-zrkSw/edit#heading=h.fbota2qx0jad | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | skn_: I meant go into the google doc, highlight some text you want to comment on, and (right?) click to choose to leave a comment. | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | sarob has entered several comments on the use case doc linked above. | 17:25 |
| sarob | i pointed msteel and mestery at it | 17:25 |
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| * mestery got it, it's on his reading list. :) | 17:25 | |
| sarob | ;) | 17:25 |
| banix | mestery: always alert :) | 17:26 |
| mestery | banix: It's easy when it calls my name out :) | 17:26 |
| sarob | both have postively replied that they are looking at | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | sarob: great! | 17:26 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: I meant the congress’ nova-like specs | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | skn_: oh—I’d leave a comment in gerritt. | 17:26 |
| sarob | isnt the user stories to turn into specs into blueprints? | 17:27 |
| sarob | just sayin | 17:27 |
| skn_ | sarob: are we planning to merge the specs that tthinrichs wrote up with the user stories | 17:27 |
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| sarob | roger roger | 17:28 |
| banix | blueprint if need to track with milestones, etc | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | Can someone explain the diff between a nova-spec and a blueprint? | 17:28 |
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| thinrichs | Other than they live in different places w/ diff formats. | 17:29 |
| kudva | thinrichs: can we take the host evacuation example or one use case and deep dive for that, so we can see the difference | 17:29 |
| banix | i think the spec is better for keeping track of reviews and updating while blueprint has other features such as milestones | 17:29 |
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| banix | so the need to kinf of use both until something better with all features is available | 17:29 |
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| pballand | kudva: +1 | 17:31 |
| pballand | I agree it would be helpful to take one story all the way thorugh | 17:31 |
| pballand | through | 17:31 |
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| skn_ | thinrichs: for data sources, can we also get some from other policy project, e.g. neutro GBP? | 17:31 |
| pballand | shall we start with host evacuation? | 17:31 |
| kudva | rajdeep, pballand: since have a few people interested in host evacuation (including sjcazzoll), I second that. | 17:32 |
| kudva | for one deep dive. We can have more than one (say neutron GBP example) | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | skn_: get some what? | 17:32 |
| skn_ | data sources from other “policy” projects, in addition to the core OS components like nova? | 17:33 |
| rajdeep-1 | skn_ : we could write a driver for neutro GBP | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | skn_: I don’t think the other policy projects are writing the same kinds of drivers we are to import data. | 17:33 |
| rajdeep-1 | but it is not prioritized | 17:33 |
| rajdeep-1 | looks like exploring a driver for ceilometer would make sense | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | But as rajdeep-1 says we could write drivers for any collection of APIs. | 17:34 |
| skn_ | rajdeep-1: one idea we discussed earlier was to work with the other policy projects too, to enforce things. | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | In terms of writing new drivers we want to prioritize based on use-case prioritization. Which is why it’s important to know which use cases utilize which data sources. | 17:35 |
| rajdeep-1 | sure thinrichs : what do you suggest | 17:35 |
| kudva | rajdeep-1: I can work with you on the ceilometer driver if we decide to pursue it. Would like to understand better how the drivers are implemented. | 17:35 |
| skn_ | For use case prioritization, we should probably take one from each categories of use cases | 17:35 |
| rajdeep-1 | kudva : that is great | 17:36 |
| pballand | I think thinrichs is saying that we need more clarity of the required data for each use case | 17:36 |
| pballand | having that would help drive data source development | 17:37 |
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| skn_ | Let’s start a deep dive on something then | 17:37 |
| skn_ | it’ll help us understand better | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | Once we have data source drivers needed for a use case, we just write the policy for that use case. | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | So there’s (hopefully) no development to do once we have the data source drivers in place. | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | Perhaps we should add our basic example to the use case doc, along with the data sources needed, and the policy so that we can all see what technical info we need. | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | I’ll volunteer to do that. | 17:38 |
| banix | thinrichs: that’s a good idea | 17:39 |
| pballand | so for the evacuation use case, what data sources do people envision the policy referencing? | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | #action thinrichs will add private/public network example to use case doc | 17:39 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: how does the action happen, if its needed? Data sources is one way from the drivers to the Congress, sounds like | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | skn_: we’re working on monitoring first. Then we’ll work on enforcement (adding actions). I imagine we can talk about just monitoring for almost all of our use cases. | 17:40 |
| kudva | pballand: not sure what sjcazzoll had in mind. But in general, the host will be evacuated if there are a high number of failures on the host. So a ceilometer plugin on the host or nova notification from the hosts are picked up by ceilometer. | 17:41 |
| kudva | So, we need to get some data from ceilometer on this to say if it's time to evacuate. | 17:41 |
| kudva | we may have a threshold on a policy: host_owner, and faults> x and any other conditions | 17:41 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: but most of the use cases make sense only if we have some action, right? | 17:41 |
| pballand | possible evacuation sources that come to mind: nova:host->vm bindings, ceilometer: metrics on hosts and networks | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | skn_: Let’s put it this way. The action mechanism we’ll use is independent of the use cases. So once we get it in, we can execute actions. | 17:42 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: Agreed | 17:42 |
| pballand | monitoring is a precursor to actions - the first way to “execution” actions is “tell the admin to fix it" | 17:42 |
| kudva | pballand: what do you mean by>? host->vm bindings, and metrics on hosts and networks? | 17:43 |
| thinrichs | But until we have monitoring in place, we can’t be executing actinos. So the use cases aren’t driving those features. | 17:43 |
| thinrichs | The use cases are only driving the development of data sources. | 17:43 |
| pballand | kudva: sorry I’m not being clear - I mean we need host:vm bindings, and that would come from nova, and we also need additional metrics that would likely come form ceilometer | 17:44 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: OK, got iit. The priority now is to have data source developments, e.g. via drivers | 17:44 |
| kudva | pballand: got it | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | skn_: Use cases/stories are important for 2 reasons: to drive technical development and to help explain why the project is useful to people. | 17:45 |
| skn_ | I can work on the data sources in the security use cases that I’ve added | 17:45 |
| thinrichs | For technical development, the use cases are only helping prioritize data source development. | 17:45 |
| thinrichs | But independently we need to push on policy engine/action execution development | 17:45 |
| thinrichs | skn_: great! | 17:45 |
| thinrichs | skn_: rajdeep is the expert on datasource driver development. | 17:46 |
| thinrichs | Speaking of which I’m making progress on integration of datasources, policy engine, and DSE. | 17:46 |
| thinrichs | And there are a number of small changes to the datasource drivers we have. | 17:46 |
| skn_ | I meant, I can start with putting the info on doc and then take it from there | 17:47 |
| banix | thinrichs: link? if the code is out there | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | skn_: got it. | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | Starting at: | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95965/7 | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | Ending at: | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96978/ | 17:47 |
| skn_ | Rajdeep: I can take some help in understanding what all data sources do we already have (or in plan) for Congress | 17:47 |
| thinrichs | The very last change in the series is unfinished (and the commit msg says so). Don’t bother reviewing that one yet. | 17:48 |
| banix | thinrichs: thanks | 17:48 |
| thinrichs | But the others are ready for review. | 17:48 |
| rajdeep-1 | sure skn_ | 17:48 |
| rajdeep-1 | currently nova and neutron drivers are implemented | 17:48 |
| thinrichs | I’ll go through and add reviewers for the ones who I know. | 17:48 |
| rajdeep-1 | https://github.com/stackforge/congress/tree/master/congress/datasources | 17:49 |
| skn_ | rajdeep: oh ok. thanks. | 17:49 |
| kudva | rajdeep-1: how do you plan to start ceiometer integration | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | I know pballand is swamped. So if everybody could pitch in and do some reviewing, that would help. | 17:49 |
| skn_ | isn’t dereck@plexxi doing something along this line? | 17:49 |
| banix | thinrichs: will do | 17:50 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: sure | 17:50 |
| thinrichs | skn_: cloudtoad isn’t doing this kind of integration. I talked to him yesterday. | 17:50 |
| rajdeep-1 | kudva : i will look at what ceilometer has and come up with a design doc | 17:50 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: I see | 17:50 |
| kudva | rajdeep-1: okay let me know, thanks | 17:51 |
| skn_ | OK, so looks like two actions on me, 1. review data source code, and 2. add some data sources needed for the security use cases | 17:52 |
| thinrichs | skn_: yes—thankyou! | 17:52 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: feel free to put these in actions | 17:52 |
| thinrichs | #action skn_ will add data sources to the use case doc | 17:53 |
| pballand | skn_: just to be clear, by 2) - do you mean update the use case doc, or or actually work on the data sources? | 17:53 |
| skn_ | update the doc | 17:53 |
| skn_ | we have to first get that done | 17:53 |
| thinrichs | #action skn_, banix, (and others who have time) will review thinrichs code changes | 17:53 |
| thinrichs | Time check: 5 mins left. | 17:54 |
| thinrichs | Open discussion | 17:54 |
| skn_ | any plans on the blueprint? | 17:54 |
| thinrichs | We had talked about working thru host evac from Story to spec and blueprint. | 17:55 |
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| thinrichs | Anyone want to work on that? | 17:55 |
| skn_ | thinrichs: Is it per use cases? I thought we are going to put in multiple of them together | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | Looking into whether we can post blueprints. Anyone know how we can add Congress as a blueprint project? | 17:57 |
| skn_ | sarob: are you there? | 17:57 |
| sarob | here | 17:57 |
| thinrichs | sarob: do you know how we get Congress added as a project when creating a new blueprint? | 17:58 |
| skn_ | sarob: Any ideas on how to add congress as a blueprint project? | 17:58 |
| sarob | very | 17:58 |
| thinrichs | sarob:??? | 17:58 |
| sarob | you mean incubated right? | 17:58 |
| sarob | im working on incubating training-guides as well | 17:59 |
| sarob | so i gots the skinny | 17:59 |
| pballand | does Congress need to be inclubated before it can be listed as a project for blueprints? | 17:59 |
| sarob | nope | 17:59 |
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| skn_ | ok, then we start with blueprints and then work on getting it incubated, right? | 17:59 |
| sarob | general practice now is repo spec patches then blueprints | 17:59 |
| pballand | I’ll volunteer to research how to get congress listed as a project when creating blueproints | 18:00 |
| sarob | we following that so good and good | 18:00 |
| sarob | ah, create a launchpad project? | 18:00 |
| skn_ | pballand: thanks | 18:00 |
| sarob | i can do that for you | 18:00 |
| sarob | with you | 18:00 |
| pballand | sarob: ah - sweet! | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | #action sarob will add Congress as a launchpad project | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | And we’re out of time. | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | Thanks all! Follow up on the ML if need be. | 18:01 |
| sarob | done | 18:01 |
| skn_ | Bye guys | 18:01 |
| thinrichs | sarob: sweet! | 18:01 |
| banix | bye | 18:01 |
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| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:01 | |
| sarob | later | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 18:01:21 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-06-10-17.01.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-06-10-17.01.txt | 18:01 |
| rajdeep-1 | bye | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-06-10-17.01.log.html | 18:01 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 19:01:08 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:01 |
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| briancurtin | #info agenda at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/PythonOpenStackSDK#Agenda_for_2014-06-10_1900_UTC | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | If you're here for the python-openstacksdk meeting, say hi | 19:02 |
| briancurtin | Brian Curtin, Rackspace | 19:02 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Alex Gaynor, Rackspace | 19:02 |
| terrylhowe | Terry Howe, HP | 19:02 |
| edleafe | Ed Leafe, Rackspace | 19:03 |
| jamielennox | Jamie Lennox, Red Hat | 19:03 |
| jamielennox | hi | 19:03 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | jamielennox: isn't it like midnight for you? That's dedication! | 19:03 |
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| jamielennox | Alex_Gaynor: 5am, and 2nd of the day | 19:04 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98917/ - Important auth fixes | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98917/ - Important auth fixes (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:04 | |
| briancurtin | so that review is the root of a few of the example changes, so i figure start with that. it's fairly small, only i've reviewed it though | 19:04 |
| jamielennox | terrylhowe: do yoy have a need for passing **kwargs through on get_token? | 19:06 |
| jamielennox | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98917/1/openstack/auth/identity/base.py | 19:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Just did a quick review, it looks fine to me, besides the comment I left. | 19:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | If someone replies to that I'm sure we can have that merged before the meeting ends | 19:07 |
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| terrylhowe | jamielennox: I don’t have a need right now, but figured there might be a possibliity the transport would need it | 19:07 |
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| jamielennox | if so then no problem, i'm pretty sure i didn't pass kwargs through there on purpose but if you've come across a case then i'm happy to go with it | 19:07 |
| jamielennox | ok, can i recommend being really careful passing **kwargs around like that because it can become a real pain to maintain compatability in the future | 19:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | ==jamielennox | 19:09 |
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| terrylhowe | that is fine, looking at session right now, and it doesn’t pass in kwargs at the moment | 19:10 |
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| jamielennox | in the ksc case most of using **kwargs was just a sink that would ignore params it didn't understand yet | 19:11 |
| terrylhowe | I’d be okay with removing kwargs from those guys if everyone feels that is best | 19:12 |
| briancurtin | yeah, that sounds best | 19:12 |
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| jamielennox | terrylhowe: ++ | 19:12 |
| jamielennox | easy to add back if a case ever comes up | 19:13 |
| terrylhowe | cool | 19:13 |
| briancurtin | yep. seems like a better idea to know for sure that we need them, so +1 | 19:13 |
| briancurtin | #action Terry will remove the kwargs, should be good to go at that point | 19:14 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97829/ - Example code reorg and auth examples | 19:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97829/ - Example code reorg and auth examples (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:14 | |
| briancurtin | hmm, Dean isn't here - he -2'ed this one | 19:14 |
| terrylhowe | well, he -2ed the previous patch | 19:15 |
| terrylhowe | I think I’ve addressed his concerns | 19:15 |
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| briancurtin | i think so as well, just wondered if he was around to take a look yet | 19:16 |
| jamielennox | i'm good with that one | 19:17 |
| briancurtin | Ed brings up a good point about where the examples are aimed at, but i put that as an item to talk about generally at the end | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | other than that, i think this is probably good to move on, and Dean can chime in whenever | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98524/ - Example session command | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98524/ - Example session command (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:19 | |
| briancurtin | At the top of it all, this change is now much more slimmed down as things have moved into those other reviews. i +2ed this latest set | 19:20 |
| jamielennox | +2 as well | 19:22 |
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| briancurtin | #topic: identifying example audiences | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": identifying example audiences (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:25 | |
| terrylhowe | I kind of like the super simple examples and allow the devs to jump in try out whatever they like | 19:26 |
| terrylhowe | I just want to create something and see it work in some basic way | 19:27 |
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| terrylhowe | edleafe: and perhaps Dean feel differently | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | edleafe: is there anything at the moment we should change? | 19:27 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Right now I've just been treating examples as "for internal consumption" not for any sort of end users | 19:27 |
| edleafe | Yeah, what Alex said | 19:28 |
| briancurtin | in general I kind of like when an example gives somewhat of a 'user story', but i dont know if we're at the point now where we have many user stories besides internal devs | 19:28 |
| edleafe | I don't really see the benefit of example code for internal devs | 19:28 |
| edleafe | BDD, anyone? ;-) | 19:28 |
| edleafe | We're writing a tool to make devs' lives simpler and easier | 19:29 |
| edleafe | If I came in cold and saw a bunch of examples that dove deep into the internals, I'd figure that this wasn't the sort of SDK I needed. | 19:30 |
| jamielennox | i think the examples reflect the deep internals because that's really all we have at the moment | 19:30 |
| edleafe | Then why are we spending time on them instead of getting closer to an MVP? | 19:31 |
| jamielennox | as we get higher level we obviously add those examples but i don't see a problem with examples for like the session object because the intent is not to hide that from people | 19:31 |
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| briancurtin | edleafe: i dont think we're going to end up with one directory containing all levels of example code, from internals to "i want to use swift" | 19:31 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Eventually I would expect that the examples for end users would be in the docs/ directory :-) | 19:32 |
| briancurtin | yep. this is just another thing that will grow to fit the needs as this continues on. maybe this dir eventually becomes /internals/examples, who knows | 19:33 |
| edleafe | jamielennox: I don't think you should hide it, but if your examples feature it, that's what users will think is the way to use the SDK | 19:33 |
| terrylhowe | well, examples are for SDK devs or SDK users? | 19:34 |
| edleafe | briancurtin: why do internal devs need examples?? | 19:34 |
| briancurtin | so they can write code? | 19:34 |
| briancurtin | so they can build thigns? | 19:34 |
| briancurtin | what are we hired for? | 19:34 |
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| jamielennox | edleafe: because at some point i expect the various services to start chipping in there own features, so there is a need for them to understand how the library works | 19:35 |
| briancurtin | if i want to know how to quickly setup a session but my goal is like 10 things away from dealing with session stuff, i might just want a quick piece of code to show me so i can get on with my job | 19:35 |
| edleafe | I always thought that's what the code itself, including tests, was supposed to do | 19:35 |
| jamielennox | not being argumentative, i think the examples will grow until the point where we need to figure them out, but there is reason for both | 19:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I suspect some of this will go away as we have examples of how to add a service, but without the examples how would the first person know how to add (say) swift suport? | 19:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I hope these can eventually just be replaced with the code itself. | 19:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | But there's a chicken/egg thing I think | 19:36 |
| edleafe | Alex_Gaynor: that's a code smell to me | 19:36 |
| terrylhowe | This has been a very confusing discussion | 19:39 |
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| briancurtin | so we're making a bunch of code and people need to know how to use it: examples seem fine to me | 19:40 |
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| edleafe | My only concern is that, based on experience, if you have example code, newcomers to the SDK will look at those and pattern their work on that | 19:41 |
| briancurtin | so we should identify what the examples are aimed at | 19:41 |
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| edleafe | But if no one else feels that that could be an issue, so be it | 19:41 |
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| terrylhowe | edleafe: that is definitely true | 19:42 |
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| briancurtin | i don't think we're going to put this current example on the rackspace site and have our customers building things like this - it's going to live in the repo for us in this meeting | 19:42 |
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| briancurtin | i think this is just a bridge we'll cross when we get to it. for now we just document and examplement (that's a new word) what we have and enable people to build on what's available | 19:47 |
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| terrylhowe | sounds good to me | 19:48 |
| jamielennox | +1 | 19:48 |
| briancurtin | #topic building out resouces | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "building out resouces (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:48 | |
| briancurtin | i was at two conferences and in transit to and from russia for a while, so i haven't really hacked on much, so i have nothing to add here...but does anyone else? | 19:49 |
| terrylhowe | I’ve done a little work on a glance image resource, it needs lots more | 19:49 |
| terrylhowe | I should have something rough sometime this week | 19:50 |
| briancurtin | cool. i'm going to start poking around as well, likely swift | 19:51 |
| briancurtin | 4 min left, anything else to add? | 19:56 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Seems like no, thanks everybody! | 19:57 |
| * Alex_Gaynor -> lunch | 19:57 | |
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| edleafe | c ya! | 19:58 |
| briancurtin | #action Terry working on Glance resource, Brian on Swift | 19:58 |
| briancurtin | thanks all | 19:58 |
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| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 19:59:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-06-10-19.01.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-06-10-19.01.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-06-10-19.01.log.html | 19:59 |
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