Monday, 2014-06-16

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krotscheck#startmeeting storyboard15:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Jun 16 15:00:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'15:00
krotscheckRoll call!15:00
krotscheck#topic Validate Project and Project Group Names.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Validate Project and Project Group Names. (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:01
ttxI added it to the agenda because Nikita mentioned we shoudl discuss it at the meeting15:01
NikitaKonovalovso, yep15:02
krotscheckRighto, so what’s the summary?15:02
* krotscheck is reading15:02
NikitaKonovalovThe idea of making projects' names shorter is not that simple as it looks like15:02
NikitaKonovalovttx said we should keep full names with a slash inside15:03
krotscheckWas that a goal of project group? I thought it was more of an arbitrary organization thing.15:03
ttxI think validating project and projectgroup names is good -- I just don't think we can assume that the / in there aligns to projectgroup boundaries15:03
NikitaKonovalovit means we cant use this name in a url15:03
ttxso let's take an example15:04
ttxwe have the storyboard API project. It maps to a repository called openstack-infra/storyboard. It belongs to several project groups, including "Infrastructure" and "All of Storyboard"15:04
ttxWhat should the "project name" be ?15:05
ttxshould the name be the git repo name ?15:05
ttx(that's what it currently is)15:06
jeblairto elaborate on ttx's point (which i agree with), the '/' in git repo names is more or less ignored by gerrit -- there is no hierarchy there.  the only place that assumes that kind of hierarchy is github (which is an ancillary tool; not something that storyboard is designed for tight interaction with (though it should be _compatible_)15:06
ttxI think one project = one git repo, so the name should be the same15:06
* krotscheck thinks that the git repo should be a property of a project, but not tightly coupled to the name/title15:06
NikitaKonovalovbtw' are there projects w/o repos?15:07
ttxkrotscheck: that would work as well. The name would be an alias15:07
mordredthere have certainly been a request for them recently15:07
ttxlike "Storyboard API side" -> openstack-infra/storyboard15:07
ttxI'm fine with that, as long as we keep the 1:1 mapping15:07
mordredyah. and project groups were to encode that storyboard and storyboard-webclient are really both parts of "Storyboard"15:07
krotscheckttx: Right - OpenStack would just happen to have the convention that project name == gerrit name.15:07
krotscheckBecause that’s easy to remember.15:07
ttx(1:n being modeled by projectgroups, basically)15:08
ttxkrotscheck: +115:08
ttxso Nikita's point is that "/" make unfriendly URLs15:08
ttxalthough gerrit survives them alright15:09
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: There aren’t any right now, because (I think) jeepyb currently autocreates a repo whenever we add a project. There’s been a request for them though, just a lack of teaching jeepyb to do that thing we want it to.15:09
mordredkrotscheck: yah. and also, lack of clarity if we _should_ support that or not15:09
ttxso he would prefer excluding "/" from project names, and goes on to use "/" as a way to separate projectgroups and project names at autocreation time15:10
mordredor if we should assume that something should get a git repo even if it doesn't use it15:10
ttxI think we should just accept "/" in project names.15:10
krotscheckAngular doesn’t care about /’s in the URL, because it handles its own URL parsing in everything after the ‘#’. I think WSME/Pecan care though.15:10
krotscheckmordred: That too15:10
SergeyLukjanovttx ++15:10
SergeyLukjanovkrotscheck, I think Pecan will ignore it after #15:11
NikitaKonovalovwe are not passing anything with a # to pecan15:11
NikitaKonovalovso it should never know15:11
krotscheckSergeyLukjanov: It will, but all of our API requests are pure URI's.15:11
krotscheck#! routing is a javascript thing only15:11
SergeyLukjanovkrotscheck, oh, it was bad idea ;)15:11
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jeblairit seems slightly wasteful+confusing to do that; i think my inclination would be to not create a repo unless one is actually desired15:12
ttxThe alternate solution would be to use a simplified project name for every project (and have the repo name in a field)15:12
mordredjeblair: yah. same here15:12
ttxStoryBoard -> openstack-infra/storyboard15:12
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NikitaKonovalovIf we are going to request projects by name from pecan, then simply escape all slashes or whatever15:12
ttxStoryBoard Webclient -> openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient15:12
jeblairttx: that seems reasonable and compatible with krotscheck's suggestion of a few mins ago15:12
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krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: I can do that.15:13
ttxIt would certainly increase readability15:13
ttxalthough that space i nthe second example is begging for abuse15:13
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ttxstoryboard-api -> openstack-infra/storyboard15:13
krotscheckttx: Maybe in titles, but we do want the ability to type in storyboard.o.o/#!/project/openstack/superpants15:14
ttxstoryboard-webclient -> openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient15:14
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krotscheckOk, so here’s what I got from NikitaKonovalov’s suggestion15:14
mordredI think I probably do15:14
ttxkrotscheck: "openstack/" has no value in there15:14
mordredI mean, I could be wrong though15:14
mordredbut I'm _really_ used to config's name being openstack-infra/config15:14
krotscheckttx: It does, because it maps to gerrit15:14
jeblairso as a convention, we have required that project names be globally unique (not just within their github-org)15:14
mordredit would be weird to me to type storyboard.o.o/#!/project/config15:15
ttxhmm, I think I just prefer we bite the bullet and use the repo name15:15
mordredbut I can also get over that if it makes everythign hard15:15
krotscheckSo, mapping #!/project/name-with-slashes to /v1/api/projects/escaped-name-with-slashes is easy15:15
NikitaKonovalovkrotscheck: agree15:15
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krotscheckWhich means that in the URL, we use the git repo name because of convention.15:16
krotscheckSorry, not git repo name, you know what I mean15:16
krotscheckWith the slashes15:16
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ttxjeblair: so in theory we could say "storyboard" and have a field that is called github-org and that is used to build the full repo name15:16
krotscheckIt just happens to be the title, because that’s what OpenSack convetion is all about15:16
jeblairgerrit uses: GET /a/changes/openstack-infra%2Fconfig15:17
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krotscheckOk, so if it turns out that our naming validation on projects and project groups is : “Anything, you just have to escape it”, does it make sense to have any API-side validation at all?15:18
jeblairttx: as long as it isn't called "github" org, but just "org" or something -- but i think it would be better to ignore it as much as possible so we can support 0-N levels of hierarchy15:18
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mordredjeblair: +1000015:18
NikitaKonovalovthe second part of this is Should the prefix be treated as a project group or as an origanization field for a project?15:19
ttxjeblair: I for one don't look forward to having new SB/gerrit mapping tables to replace the LP/Gerrit ones15:19
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krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: Neither, I think. If it’s a string, then the full title is the string.15:19
ttxso I'm fine with using repo names directly15:19
jeblairkrotscheck: agree15:20
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ttxMy only gripe with using full repo names is that they eat valuable space, but I'm pretty sure we can optimize that. Like if there is what appears to be a github-org prefix, display it nicely15:21
NikitaKonovalovok, then we keep the titles as they are, and the only thing needed to support them in urls is making projects API work with names15:22
krotscheckWhat’s the full repo name thread about? I thought we were talking about names, where the project name will be ‘openstack-infra/storyboard’ by convention.15:22
ttxkrotscheck: it's an orthogonal discussion, ignore me. i'll be back with it15:23
krotscheckttx: Okie15:23
krotscheckProject names are going to be escaped when they hit the API15:23
krotscheckAnd we need to make them unique.15:24
krotscheckGroups are not going to be automatically inferred from project names.15:24
krotscheckAnd the webclient will start using unescaped-project-name and parse it to escaped-project-name.15:24
krotscheckDid I miss anything?15:25
mordredkrotscheck: that seems like an excellent summary15:25
krotscheckAny disagreements?15:25
NikitaKonovalovnames are already unique by constraint
krotscheckCool, let’s move on.15:26
krotscheck#topic Specs15:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:26
krotscheckGo talk about specs in the specs repo!15:27
SergeyLukjanovkrotscheck, +1 re prev point15:27
krotscheckSo we have three specs out there: Tagging, Search, Subscriptions15:28
krotscheckThe first two are still under active discussion, the latter seems to have settled?15:28
krotscheckI wouldn’t mind having mordred or jeblair look at it though15:28
ttxkrotscheck: I had a question about your comments on tags15:28
krotscheckOr, well, anyone form infra-core who’s familiar with how queues break down when under load.15:28
krotscheckOk, let’s talk about tags!15:29
krotscheck#topic Spec: Tags15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec: Tags (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:29
krotscheckWhat’s up?15:29
mordredtags like lazer tag?15:29
mordredcause that's fun15:29
ttxkrotscheck: tags are keywords, and you seem to hint you'd like to use them as a more generic name/value thing15:29
jeblairkrotscheck: looking forward to it, thanks15:29
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ttxa property that could be attached to any object15:30
krotscheckttx: Generic, yes. Name/value no. I’m starting to see them as our associations.15:30
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krotscheckSo, for instance, if there are several people working on a task, that is represented at two tags that link task-to-user15:31
ttxkrotscheck: that's quite different from what I'm proposing. I'm not sure we can tweak my proposal until it does that instead of what I had in mind15:31
mordredis it possible you're each talking about different features and both of them happen to be called "tag" ?15:32
ttxmaybe you should draft a separate one to explain what you start to see... it certainly sounds more ambitious than my lowly Launchpad tag equivalent15:32
krotscheckmordred: That’s what I’m thinkign15:32
mordredttx: ++15:33
ttx"My" tag is just about assocaiting keywords to stories, to get the same functionality we have with LP bug, a feature that we've come to rely on15:33
mordredlike "this is a gate bug"15:33
jeblairmordred: ++15:33
ttxassociating them to stories let us get the benefit for bugs *and* blueprints.15:33
jeblairor low-hanging-fruit, etc15:33
mordredyah. low-hanging-fruit15:33
mordredalthough I still dont' think we use that one well15:34
ttxit's just a loose way to allow free-form categorization15:34
jeblairmordred: mostly because we don't use bugs well15:34
ttxkrotscheck: that's what my spec is about... so i'm not sure how I should address your comments15:34
krotscheckI still think they can be one and the same, but I’ll happily write up a spec to explain what I’m trying to accomplish.15:34
ttxkrotscheck: and i'll happily read it. As long as we can get the same functionality I'm looking for, I'm certainly open to an implementation that opens up more possibilities15:35
krotscheckWorks for me :)(15:35
ttxthe trick generally being... opening those extra possibilities without making the basic one unusable :)15:35
krotscheckHonestly, I think that what you want is the first step to what I want.15:35
ttxkrotscheck: cool, we could even approve BOTH specs!15:36
krotscheckOk, so action for me: Write a generic tagging spec.15:36
krotscheckWe’ve got the search spec out there as well, anything you want to discuss NikitaKonovalov?15:37
NikitaKonovalovthe main discussion there is what should the query look like15:37
ttxkrotscheck: if there is time at the end of the meeting, i'd like to present again15:38
ttxsince last week it was just Nikita and me15:38
NikitaKonovalovwe can keep discussing it there15:38
krotscheckttx: kk15:38
krotscheck#topic Ongoing work15:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:39
krotscheckToday in REVERSE ALPHABETICAL ORDER15:39
krotscheckyolanda’s not here, she’s working on timestamps and date display, and sent me a directive that I need to debg15:39
ttxThe roadmap is basically taking the Juno etherpad, but I added a new milestone based on a suggestion from mordred. I think it nicely splits the MVP 1.2 work into more manageable chunks15:39
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mordredeek. giving me credit for ideas is scary15:40
jeblairso, use openstack projects drop blueprints first, before bugs15:40
ttxwe basically implement the features needed to get integrated projects to use StoryBoard for feature planning, before the ones needed to get them to use it to track bugs15:40
jeblairsounds reasonable, and i like the ramp-up aspect to it15:41
ttxit's just a sane way to prioritize that big chunk of features15:41
krotscheckMakes sens15:41
ttxnot sure how many projects will take the bait15:41
ttxbut in all cases that chunk was just too big, so splitting it made sense15:41
jeblairttx: we pretty much have to tell people not to use storyboard all the time.  :)15:41
ttxkrotscheck: I'm pretty sure you completed a few of those 1.1 lines, so feel free to edit that wiki page15:42
mordredcan I disagree with two of the thigns on that wiki?15:42
ttxmordred: hey, it's a wiki. OH WAIT WHAT?15:42
* krotscheck has tried to get mordred not to disagree on other things without much success.15:42
mordred"task ordering" - blueprints doesnt have that right now15:43
* krotscheck apparently likes his triple negatives, too.15:43
ttxmordred: they actually havce15:43
mordredand we use them?15:43
jeblairmordred: yeah, work items15:43
ttxmordred: it's called work items15:43
mordredand we use them?15:43
jeblairi just saw them used the other day15:43
mordredoh. ok15:43
mordrednevermind then15:43
ttxmordred: we don't really use blueprints! So that's unfair.15:43
jeblairmordred: i was like "oh yeah, that exists" :)15:43
mordredI didn't think openstack used them15:43
ttxmordred: but I see your point15:44
mordredI guess what I'm trying to say is that we dont need to be feature complete with blueprints -we need to be feature complete with our incomplete usage of them15:44
ttxit's just that to make a set of tasks useful in a blueprint setting, you kinda need to be able to order them15:44
ttxto be feature complete with blueprints you'd have to allow only a single task in a blueprint story.15:44
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krotscheckFYI, I’m cutting this discussion off in 5 minutes, we need to give time for NikitaKonovalov and I to give summaries.15:44
jeblairyeah, i think task ordering makes the cutoff for "usable with, borderline-unusable without", especially for a significant story15:44
jeblair(without it, people would probably have to duplicate the info in the description to get it ordered)15:45
mordredjeblair: ++15:45
mordredI think I'm good with the wiki description in general then15:45
ttxthat's all I had. tried to spend time on reviews last week. Will do more.15:45
krotscheckThanks, ttx- we did land some good ones.15:45
mordredalthough I think we need bulk import before 1.2.1 ... but that's not what we're talking about15:45
krotscheckOk, so summary of the roadmap: Task ordering is something we want?15:46
jeblairyeah, that's in 1.1.1, but i think it may need to be in 1.115:46
mordredjeblair: oh! my bad. I was equating "bulk import" from the future with "lp data import"15:47
* mordred shuts up15:47
NikitaKonovalovkrotscheck: I've been busy with my university graduation last week, and we had holidays is Russia15:47
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: You graduated?15:47
NikitaKonovalovpretty much15:47
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: AWESOME15:47
mordredNikitaKonovalov: congratualtions!15:47
ttxand I thought French people were the only ones to have holidays15:47
* krotscheck puts on a party hat15:47
mordredkrotscheck: you arent' still wearing one?15:48
NikitaKonovalovso I was updating my Search spec and will continue doing that15:48
krotscheckmordred: no, there was a very insistent gentleman who took it off with his teeth.15:48
* krotscheck has no idea why15:48
mordredoh my15:48
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: Ok. I’m starting to work on the UI section of search btw.15:48
krotscheckSo about that.15:48
krotscheckI discovered thu/fri that there’s actually enough search-like functionality in storyboard to build out the UI I had in mind for search15:49
mordredooh neat15:49
krotscheckSo I’m working on that, and the mulit-resource search and routing is already all there.15:49
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krotscheckThe missing piece is the advanced input field15:49
krotscheckSo you can search via the header, but that search string isn’t persisted into the actual search UI15:50
krotscheckI’ve been doing that because my work on subscriptions is currently pending on config review15:50
krotscheckFirst this one:
krotscheckThen this one:
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krotscheckThe first one grew out of the openstack-ci/puppet-storyboard disucssion where I’m tying to bring the two modules in sync with each other so we can eventually move infra over to the one in openstack-ci15:51
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krotscheckAnd in reality, the approach I’m taking is ‘doing a lot of work in infra-config, and then copying it over to openstack-ci15:52
jeblairwhat's openstack-ci?15:52
krotscheckjeblair: Argh15:52
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jeblairdo you mean openstack-infra?15:52
krotscheckjeblair: That’s be being stupdi15:52
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krotscheckEventually all that work will land here:
jeblairokay, i'm confused because aren't we running the puppet that's in openstack-infra?15:53
krotscheckjeblair: yes15:53
krotscheckWhich I thought was a bit confusing too.15:53
jeblairor do you mean moving from openstack-infra/config to openstack-infra/puppet-storyboard?15:53
jeblairthat's a plan i'm fully in support of :)15:54
mordredso the idea is to make all of the changes you would make to make a standalone module _in_ the config tree15:54
krotscheckI would like to get the puppet module cleaned up a bit before moving over to puppet-storyboard though15:54
jeblairkrotscheck: that's a fine idea15:54
mordredthen land that as a patch to the empty puppet-storyboard repo15:54
krotscheckAnd then to copy it all over.15:54
mordredthis is excelelnt plan15:54
krotscheckSo: Step one -
krotscheckStep two:
krotscheckStep three: copy step one and two to
krotscheckThough technically step two can happen anywhere15:55
* krotscheck is a little worried about the maount of work he’s already put into subscriptions without having the spec approved.15:56
krotscheckBut that’s my summary15:56
krotscheck#topic Open Discussion15:56
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mordredkrotscheck: I haven't followed the rabbit things ... which thing should I read to learn more about that?15:57
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krotscheckmordred: Subscription spec15:57
mordredthank you15:57
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krotscheckANy other open discussion topics?15:58
krotscheckAlright, let’s call it :)15:59
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Jun 16 15:59:37 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
openstackMinutes (text):
jeblairkrotscheck: thanks15:59
ttxkrotscheck: thx!15:59
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