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| krotscheck | #startmeeting StoryBoard | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 23 15:01:56 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | Allo allo! | 15:02 |
| ttx | o/ | 15:02 |
| jeblair | o/ | 15:02 |
| NikitaKonovalov | hi | 15:02 |
| mordred | o/ | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | Agenda is here: | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Agenda | 15:02 |
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| krotscheck | Anyone have last minute additions they’d like to put on there? | 15:02 |
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| * fungi lurks | 15:03 | |
| krotscheck | #topic Reviews: Validate project & group names | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews: Validate project & group names (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:03 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | I'd like to extend Search UI to Search UI and API | 15:03 |
| Ish__ | Hi.. | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Got it | 15:03 |
| Ish__ | I am Aishwarya. | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | Hi there! | 15:03 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 15:03 |
| Ish__ | , a CS grad student from Stony Brook University, the new intern to your team. | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | To everyone, Ish__ is joining StoryBoard for the summer :) | 15:04 |
| jeblair | Ish__: welcome! | 15:04 |
| mordred | woot. welcome Ish__ | 15:04 |
| ttx | Ish__: welcome! | 15:04 |
| NikitaKonovalov | Ish__: o/ | 15:04 |
| ttx | Where is Stony Brook? | 15:04 |
| Ish__ | Thank you, all..! | 15:04 |
| * ttx should google that | 15:05 | |
| Ish__ | in NY | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Anything on Project & Group names? | 15:05 |
| ttx | Ish__: cool. | 15:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've added a migration | 15:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | It will rename a Project if it does not pass validation | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Awesome, thanks for that. | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | Anything else? | 15:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | a previous name will be appended to the description | 15:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so supersuers can see it and restore | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | Oh, smart move. | 15:05 |
| jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: i like that solution | 15:05 |
| krotscheck | ++ | 15:06 |
| jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: it has the right balance of "keep things working" and "let the admin know something is wrong so they can fix it" | 15:06 |
| * ttx likes too. | 15:06 | |
| krotscheck | Awesome. Review is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98728/ | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | #topic Search UI and API | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Search UI and API (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:07 | |
| krotscheck | Ok, so I put up a mostly functional multidimensional search UI here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99975/ | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | It still needs some love with no-result edge cases, however the basic feel is there. | 15:08 |
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| krotscheck | Note that right now it only pretends to be a search, it’s really a browse/filter UI. | 15:08 |
| ttx | ok | 15:08 |
| NikitaKonovalov | Seen that, looks great | 15:08 |
| krotscheck | Also, it’s not the fastest thing in the world, as it waits for multiple search requests to come back before rendering. | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | I would like some feedback on the UX on that before going much farther, simply as a sanity check. | 15:09 |
| mordred | krotscheck: is taht speed thing a thing that gets helped with search index? or is there a different thing at play? | 15:10 |
| mordred | (I mean, I know you said it's actually just doing browse/filter right now - so that might be part of it?) | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | mordred: Right now it seems to be mainly network latency that’s the issue. | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | mordred: See, it’s actually trying to resolve search dimensions via the API, meaning that every time you type a key, it goes out and queries the User/Project/Story API’s all at once. | 15:11 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: i think i left comments to this effect in some review (i think it may be the api side), but yeah, having to hit multiple endpoints seems awkward ... | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | It is. | 15:11 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: what kind of flexibility do we have to say violate the rest standards and make a /search?q=... endpoint? | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | Having said that though, I was able to make the UI work in the way that I wanted it to with the current API features, so that’s good. | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: We have all the flexibility we want? In fact we probably should. | 15:12 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: That begs the question on browse vs. search though | 15:12 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov should probably weigh in on that. | 15:12 |
| NikitaKonovalov | well, we may have browse and search on the same endpoint | 15:13 |
| krotscheck | Oh? | 15:13 |
| NikitaKonovalov | depending on a q parameter | 15:13 |
| NikitaKonovalov | but I'd preferr to have /search?q= | 15:14 |
| krotscheck | How would that work if I, say, asked for /stories?q=foo&project_id=22 | 15:14 |
| krotscheck | (since the latter implies a filter and the former implies a query | 15:14 |
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| mordred | it sounds like the API kinda wants to ahve both, yeah? like a /search?q= _and_ a /stories?q=foo&project_id=22 for different purposes? | 15:15 |
| mordred | or maybe I'm crazypantshead? | 15:15 |
| NikitaKonovalov | but we want to have q=<something for a full text search>&k=v to filter | 15:15 |
| krotscheck | mordred: Well, how do full text searches interact with indexes? | 15:16 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: We don’t necessarily want that. | 15:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | http://sqlalchemy-searchable.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ | 15:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ^^ can wratp filter queries with add full-text stuff | 15:16 |
| mordred | krotscheck: oh, we'd need the indexingy things to implement /search?q= in a truly performant way - but we could have a v1 of what the API wants to look like without the goodness probably | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | …postgres only? Srsly? | 15:16 |
| mordred | krotscheck: the python community has an unnatural obession with postgres | 15:17 |
| krotscheck | mordred: The python community has an unnatural obsession with python :-P | 15:17 |
| mordred | krotscheck: :) | 15:17 |
| mordred | rewrite it all in go! | 15:17 |
| ttx | in javascript!: | 15:17 |
| NikitaKonovalov | Postgres is for an example there | 15:17 |
| krotscheck | I recommend we rewrite it all in chicken | 15:17 |
| NikitaKonovalov | i hope | 15:17 |
| mordred | NikitaKonovalov: it seems worthwhile to explore whether or not that will function with mysql | 15:18 |
| NikitaKonovalov | mordred: agree | 15:18 |
| jeblair | oh, i also left some nodes in a review about the full-text indexing... i think we may want to consider using the messaging framework to keep solr up to date near-real-time | 15:18 |
| mordred | oh. I guess "Currently it only supports PostgreSQL." is what krotscheck was reading | 15:19 |
| * krotscheck is honestly not that familiar with how search indexes work, as long as the API behaves sanely he’ll happily stay on the client side and let everyone else argue it out. | 15:19 | |
| mordred | krotscheck: yah - I mean, honestly, I think we should get a search api written even if the impl is terrible so that it doesn't have to be faked ui side | 15:19 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've updated the Search spec with Spihnx section | 15:19 |
| mordred | and then we can try different api server impl choices. | 15:19 |
| NikitaKonovalov | it can keep it's indexes pretty up to date | 15:20 |
| * mordred also agrees with jeblair on messaging framework for keeping search indexes up to date | 15:20 | |
| krotscheck | jeblair: You mean the messaging async processing spec I put up there? | 15:20 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: yep | 15:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | this is what their indexes up to date http://sphinxsearch.com/docs/current.html#delta-updates | 15:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | looks like we will need messaging for both indexing and notifications | 15:20 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: since the search spec seemed to be reaching for a way to get async notifications that it needs to reindex stuff | 15:21 |
| krotscheck | Before we go off the rails here, can we focus on what decisions actually need to be made right now? | 15:21 |
| krotscheck | I think I agree with mordred that “implementing the search API no matter what the impl behind the scenes is” is good. | 15:21 |
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| jeblair | ++ | 15:21 |
| krotscheck | However, I also feel that the UI I put together buys us more time on the need for this implementation, because it actually provides a pretty sophisticated way of discovering things. | 15:22 |
| mordred | ++ | 15:22 |
| NikitaKonovalov | then the LIKE statement is the solution | 15:22 |
| krotscheck | Right | 15:22 |
| krotscheck | It doesn’t remove the need for a fulltext search, it only patches the pain | 15:23 |
| krotscheck | So it sounds like we want more comments and discussion on Nikita’s review | 15:23 |
| krotscheck | The real decision to make is: Separate search API endpoint, or munge it in with browse? | 15:23 |
| NikitaKonovalov | pecan allows to do that | 15:24 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've done a similar thing for GET projects | 15:24 |
| mordred | krotscheck: what's the benefit of munging it with browse? | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | mordred: Can’t think of one. I feel that it’s mostly a stylistic choice. | 15:25 |
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| krotscheck | Well | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | Philosophical | 15:25 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: fundamentally, i think we want one endpoint to handle the one operation -- what i'm not sure about is whether it needs to be completely separate, or if it's enough to hang it off of stories because that's ultimately what we're going to display to the user... | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: point | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | jeblair is suggesting search as a resource-wide action, not just specific to individual resources. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | Sorry | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | API-wide action | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | mordred: Philosophical difference is as follows- search is inclusive: “Give me things that are close to this value”. Browse is exclusive: “Only give me things where this == value“ | 15:27 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Thoughts about /search?q= vs /stories/search?q= | 15:28 |
| NikitaKonovalov | my vote is for the second | 15:28 |
| NikitaKonovalov | that one clearly says what are we looking for | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | Doesn’t searching imply that we don’t actually know what we’re looking for? | 15:29 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so then we need an ability to limit the search if the user actually knows what he is looking for | 15:30 |
| NikitaKonovalov | search?q=<whatever>&target=stories | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Right - at that point it becomes a munged search/browse | 15:30 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: maybe we need to lay out some use cases and say "if you want to find a specific comment, do this" "if you want to find a story that has a comment with text, do this".... | 15:31 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: That’s a good idea. | 15:31 |
| mordred | ++ | 15:31 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: i think doing straw-man versions of cases (especially edge cases) like that may be instructive | 15:31 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: You know, i can go back into the Atlanta UX sessions and extract some of the search cases that were highlighted there. | 15:32 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: sounds like a good source | 15:32 |
| krotscheck | Indeed | 15:32 |
| krotscheck | Do we need to pause the spec while we figure that out? | 15:33 |
| krotscheck | Or can the spec be nonspecific as to where the endpoint lives? | 15:33 |
| jeblair | i think this would be good stuff to get into the spec | 15:33 |
| krotscheck | Alright, so high priority. | 15:33 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Do you mind if I add the use cases to your spec directly? | 15:34 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: I'd appreciate that | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | Works for me. | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck Extract search use cases from UX sessions and add to search spec. | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | SPeaking of specs.... | 15:35 |
| krotscheck | #topic Specifications | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specifications (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:35 | |
| krotscheck | We just talked about Search: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97254/ | 15:35 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov added a section on solr. | 15:35 |
| krotscheck | We’ve got some use cases to add | 15:35 |
| krotscheck | And an outstanding decision on where the endpoint should live. | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | endpoint(s) | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | Did I miss anything? | 15:36 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I'll remove that sqlalchemy-searchable section | 15:36 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we do not have postgress | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | Right | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | Anything else? Else I’ll move on. | 15:37 |
| jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: btw, in the commit msg, you can have "Story:" and "Change-Id" in the same paragraph (like in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95307/ ); they don't need a blank line between them | 15:37 |
| NikitaKonovalov | jeblair: not a problem | 15:37 |
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| krotscheck | jeblair: I dunno, I feel that two lines is more legible for humanz | 15:37 |
| krotscheck | My meat brain is bad at regex :) | 15:38 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: definitely 2 lines, just saying not 3 lines | 15:38 |
| krotscheck | Oh, got ti | 15:38 |
| * mordred votes for 5 lines | 15:38 | |
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| krotscheck | There’s also the tagging spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97211/ | 15:38 |
| krotscheck | Which I know I promised I was going to write a sibling for, but I haven’t gotten around to it because of the search UI | 15:38 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: we should also make sure to get sdague and clarkb to look over the search spec and provide feedback on the fulltext engines | 15:38 |
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| krotscheck | jeblair: Last time I asked clarkb on that his response was “Oh god not elasticsearch please god not that" | 15:39 |
| * krotscheck may be paraphrasing | 15:39 | |
| jeblair | yeah, that's good feedback to have :) | 15:39 |
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| mordred | that sounds like something he'd say | 15:40 |
| krotscheck | #action NikitaKonovalov Get sdague and clarkb’s feedback on Search Spec. | 15:40 |
| krotscheck | Looks like we have a new update on tagging | 15:40 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Care to summarize? | 15:40 |
| ttx | Mostly clarifications | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | Alright, we can read those on our own time. | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | The messaging spec is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95307/ | 15:42 |
| ttx | on what's accepted in a tag name, and how protected tags would work | 15:42 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: I left a comment for you regarding the actual implementation that would make a streaming API easy | 15:42 |
| ttx | krotscheck: it still targets a story-specific case, so if you want to introduce a more general reousrce tag, you can file a separate one | 15:43 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: cool, thx | 15:43 |
| krotscheck | ttx I will. | 15:43 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: That comment will also address the question of updating any indexes. | 15:43 |
| krotscheck | (Well, it addresses the question of “Hey we have a stream of changes, what useful things can we do with that?”) | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | #topic Ongoing work | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:44 | |
| *** ttrifonov is now known as ttrifonov_zZzz | 15:44 | |
| krotscheck | In alphabetical order this week! | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | I was mostly working on the search UI, as well as tag completion. | 15:45 |
| krotscheck | This week I’m going to write all the specs and try to advance the storyboard puppet module changes | 15:45 |
| krotscheck | So that we can get rabbit onto the SB server and we can start broadcasting changes. | 15:45 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov? | 15:46 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've been working on 4xx codes support for UI and API | 15:46 |
| NikitaKonovalov | now 401 and 403 should work properly | 15:47 |
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| krotscheck | Awesome | 15:47 |
| mordred | woot | 15:47 |
| * krotscheck is surprised that’s not baked into pecan | 15:47 | |
| mordred | wasn't there discussion at some point of pecan growing that? | 15:47 |
| mordred | dhellmann: ^^ ? | 15:47 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: I'd say I had to fight agains pecan mechanisms | 15:48 |
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| krotscheck | dhellmann: Context: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101146/ | 15:48 |
| NikitaKonovalov | on rendering the correct code | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Yeah, I looked at that review and was somewhat surprised that there wasn’t a more elegant way | 15:48 |
| NikitaKonovalov | but still that works | 15:48 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and there is a new modal for UI to warn a user if cant perform some action | 15:49 |
| NikitaKonovalov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101867/ | 15:49 |
| krotscheck | Oh neat! | 15:49 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've done some one-line fixed for timeline and docs | 15:50 |
| krotscheck | NICE. Love the implementation | 15:50 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and there is a WIP change for search endpoints, but it'll wait until we decide how the final interface should look like | 15:51 |
| krotscheck | ttx? Thanks for the updated spec and for your reviews, anything in addition to that? | 15:51 |
| ttx | no | 15:51 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, moving to open discussion | 15:51 |
| ttx | slowly working to the bottom of my TODO pile though so I still hope to be able to propose some code to keep current | 15:51 |
| krotscheck | I stand corrected. | 15:52 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I could use some help with oslo.messaging :) | 15:52 |
| krotscheck | Anything else? | 15:52 |
| ttx | nope | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | #topic Open Discussion | 15:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 15:53 | |
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| NikitaKonovalov | There is going to be an Infra-qa meetup soon | 15:53 |
| NikitaKonovalov | any StoryBoard stuff there? | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | You mean the midcycle in Dortmund? I won’t be able to make it. | 15:54 |
| jeblair | darmstadt | 15:54 |
| ttx | neither will I | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | Well, i had one letter right! | 15:54 |
| jeblair | so we probably won't do much storyboard stuff then, except perhaps to talk about bulk import | 15:54 |
| jeblair | since that's the main blocker of increased infra adoption right now | 15:55 |
| mordred | bulk import ftw | 15:55 |
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| krotscheck | Indeed. That discussion was last left with “maybe doing a direct-to-db dump would be best to ensure associations are maintained" | 15:55 |
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| jeblair | good to know | 15:57 |
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| krotscheck | That’s from the summit | 15:57 |
| jeblair | we may end up pinging people in irc if we get to talking/hacking about it | 15:57 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Works for me. | 15:57 |
| krotscheck | Anyone have anything else they want to bring up? | 15:58 |
| NikitaKonovalov | nothing from my side | 15:58 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, thanks everyone! | 15:59 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 23 16:00:01 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-06-23-15.01.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-06-23-15.01.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-06-23-15.01.log.html | 16:00 |
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