Tuesday, 2014-07-29

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david-lyle#startmeeting Horizon15:59
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 15:59:40 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)"15:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'horizon'15:59
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david-lyleHello everyone16:00
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david-lyleJ-2 was tagged last week on Wed, we finished 12 blueprints and closed 103 bugs16:01
david-lyleThanks everyone for your hard work and many reviews to make that happen16:02
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tmazurhello o/16:02
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david-lyleRight after J-2 we merged the rest of the code for the Sahara blueprint as well. \o/16:02
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david-lyleThanks to crobertsrh for staying on top of those changes for so long and making sure they were always in a good state16:03
crobertsrhThanks for reviewing the piles of code everyone :)16:03
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jristI have to admit, those reviews were ... unpleasantly repetitive16:03
akrivokahi everyone16:03
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lblanchardhi all16:04
david-lyleWe also merged the update to bootstrap 3 this week16:04
david-lylethere are several bugs related to that, but last week we decided those would be more easily addressed as bug fixes16:04
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david-lylethan trying to keep that large patch in sync with master16:05
david-lyleso let's tackle some of those defects quickly16:05
david-lyleone related to that is on the agenda later I believe16:05
david-lyleThat leaves us with https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-316:05
david-lyleWhich I need to massively prune down in the next day or two16:06
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david-lyleGiven past performance and review capacity, I would expect maybe 20 blueprints to land16:06
david-lyleI will implement a feature proposal freeze probably a little before the rest of OpenStack so that we can concentrate on merging what we have in the pipeline already16:07
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pawelswhen that would be ?16:08
jpichMakes sense to me16:08
david-lyleI haven't determined the exact date yet, the common one is August 21, so maybe a week before that.16:09
david-lyleLet's say 2 weeks from today.16:09
david-lyleSo August 1216:10
pawelsI am asking because we are hardly working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/glance-metadata-definitions-base-admin-ui which is partially in glance and in horizon, I am expecting this need to be reviewed first in Glance before going into horizon ?16:10
david-lylewithout the feature freeze the review load gets too noisy and makes it tough to land anything16:10
david-lylepawels: without support in Glance, we won't merge in Horizon16:11
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amotokihorizon has many dependencies on other projects.16:11
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pawels david-lyle: ok, we are starting some review on Glance side this week16:11
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david-lyleso glance will have to support it, glanceclient will have to support it, glanceclient will have to be released, an openstack/requirements change will have to merge and finally changes to Horizon can merge, that seems very tight for scheduling16:12
pawelsthat's why I am rising it ;)16:12
david-lylepawels: just looking at it realistically16:12
david-lyleFFE are a possibility for certain features, but those are the exception16:13
amotokiRe client requirements change, how about requirement freeze? does it occur during RC1 phase? I can't remember it well.16:13
david-lyleamotoki: good question, that sounds correct16:14
pawelsdavid-lyle:: we should have like code complete this week of all the parts glance/glanceclient/horizon16:14
jpichThe requirements freeze doesn't really apply to the openstack clients, since we control them and they're supposed to be backwards compatible16:14
jpichor let's say it's much easier to get a requirement freeze exception for them16:15
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amotokijpich: yeah.. but it requires more efforts to us :-(16:15
david-lylejpich, true, but depending on how the feature is supported (optional) we may have to require a newer version of the client16:15
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david-lylethat should have been (optional or not optional)16:16
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david-lyleAnyway on J-3, expect pruning, we only have 5 weeks left16:17
tzumainndavid-lyle, want a dashboard link?16:18
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jpichRight, just saying that when I asked for a requirement exception for a client requirement last time, people thought it was silly to even have to ask :) http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/031178.html16:18
tzumainnit'd need to be updated after the pruning16:18
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david-lyleI also merged a horizon dashboard to the gerrit-dash-creator for general horizon reviews, minus tuskar-ui16:19
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david-lylewow, that was a mistake16:19
* david-lyle facepalm16:20
amotokiIRC cuts off longer link :-(16:20
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jrist aieee16:20
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david-lyleyou can generate it from the repo :)16:20
david-lyleI'll leave it as an exercise for the reader16:20
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tzumainnhttp://goo.gl/ldHJEX would be the shortened version of that, I think16:21
amotokidavid-lyle: I pasted the similar one to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/Reviews about a month ago. I will update it.16:21
david-lyleamotoki: ok, I missed that16:21
david-lylewith the creator repo, you can also modify to your taste16:22
david-lyleso the agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon16:22
david-lyle#topic Current breakages, for general awareness (jpich)16:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Current breakages, for general awareness (jpich) (Meeting topic: Horizon)"16:23
jpichYo! For Your General Awareness:16:23
jpichThe pep8 job has been broken for about a month, you can't trust that your code is correct by running ./run_tests.sh -p so please be careful. pawels and rdopieralski are working on fixing this (thank you so much!), thanks to amotoki as well for helping to pinpoint where some of the issues are coming from16:23
jpichhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1347472 for the gory details and keeping track of the upcoming patches *refreshes page*16:23
pawelstogether with radomir we are working on the issue16:24
jpichThe 2nd point is that there's some new intermittent gate failures popping around because of horizon, 2 seem related to the recent scss patch. Not sure if it's because of errors that got in due to lack of pep8ing, but something we'll want to keep an eye on and fix16:24
david-lylethanks pawels and rdopieralski16:24
jpichI've been tagging those with "gate" when I see them, https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bugs?field.tag=gate16:24
jpich<end of announcements/>16:24
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david-lyleoops, I think there's an additional one, that may or may not be a horizon bug16:25
jpichThank pawels and rdopieralski, please let us know if you need help or when you need reviews for these ones :)16:25
pawelssure, thanks !16:25
tzumainndoes that bug really mention 2500 pep8 failures?16:25
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jpichdavid-lyle: It's in the list. derekh proposed a revert of the giant bootstrap patch as it introduced the issue, I'm not sure what's the best course of action16:26
david-lylejpich, see it now16:26
pawelstzumainn: if you remove the line "select = H236" you will get that number of errrors16:26
jpichI'm a bit anxious huge patches are getting in without being pep8'd, but maybe we can catch the fixes in time with bug 1347472... It'll have to be soon though because from what I understand this breaks the TripleO gate16:26
david-lylenot sure either, I don't think a revert is the right course of action16:26
amotokihttp://paste.openstack.org/show/88908/ show error count per flake8 check.16:27
jpichtzumainn: There's about 700 new errors, and from what I understand a couple of 1000s we missed because of new rules that were introduced in a new version of hacking. These ones we'll add to the ignore list for later, we just want to fix what used to work for now16:27
david-lyleparsing _stylesheets.html shouldn't be pep8 related16:27
amotokiH904 and H307 were introduced in hacking 0.9 and hacking 0.9 came after the bug was introduced :-(16:28
david-lylewhat is H90416:28
amotokiH904 is a hacking rule number.16:29
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david-lyleI understand that, what's the rule16:29
amotokiH904 (Wrap long lines in parentheses instead of a backslash)16:29
david-lylegood grief16:29
david-lylewho cares16:29
jpichDefinitely for the explicit ignore list till some later time16:30
* david-lyle returns inner voice to internal only16:30
jpichin a galaxy far far away16:30
jpichah we've reviewed larger patches :-)16:30
amotokiof course we need to discuss which rules should be enabled in horizon, especially like H904.16:30
david-lyleamotoki: thanks for catching the larger issue, I'm not trying to discount the checks, I think they're valuable, at least most of them are valuable16:31
pawelsso we will ignore H904 for the begining but we also need to make a long term decision here16:32
david-lylewhat was the other new check added?16:33
david-lyleand that is ?16:33
amotokiH307: like imports should be grouped together16:33
david-lyleI thought we already had that, did it become more stringent?16:34
amotokiIt checks all imports are groupd into three categories: standard, thirdparty and project.16:34
amotokiIt check three groups are separated by blank line and each group does not have a blank line inside group.16:35
amotokimost horizon codes do not follow this.16:35
david-lylehmm, I thought we already went through that exercise, apparently I'm mistaken16:36
amotokiwe have several groups: standard, thirdpaty, django, horizon and openstack_dashboard.16:36
jpichNope, it's been up to the human reviewers so far16:36
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amotokiPreviously grouping check is up to reviewers :-(16:37
jpichI think it'd be a nice to have, maybe -- but likewise, later, once we're back to where we used to be with pep8 :)16:38
david-lyleok, I was thinking alphabetical I bet https://github.com/openstack/horizon/commit/cea720e793777519dab542fdc4105dd456e000f616:38
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david-lylesounds like we're targeting the old and will move forward with supporting the new rules, which I would propose for early Kilo16:39
jpichSounds reasonable to me16:39
david-lyleas we don't need extra code thrash at this point in the release16:40
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jpichNope, we don't need all the juno-3 patches to have merge conflicts on feature freeze day :-)16:40
david-lylejpich: exactly, we'll have enough fun already16:40
david-lyle#topic Open Discussion16:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)"16:41
amotokitotally makes sense.16:41
nlahoutiSupport for cisco DFA in horizon BP is approved but it show up in  http://goo.gl/RG6HQt  under Blueprints (Review). Is that correct? or list needs to be updated?16:41
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david-lylenlahouti: that heading means code for blueprint up for review16:42
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david-lylenot that the blueprint needs to be reviewed16:42
nlahoutidavid-lyle: thx for clarification.16:42
david-lylenlahouti: np16:42
mxuHi david-lyle: Q on your comment "Given past performance and review capacity, I would expect maybe 20 blueprints to land".    I assume approved BPs will be part of the 20, correct?16:43
amotokiI think "Approval" here means "need another +2".16:43
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david-lylemxu, there are approved blueprints that won't make it for one reason or another, code's not ready, not enough reviews, etc16:44
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david-lylemxu, the reality is, I don't honestly know who's going to stick with a patch long enough to get it in, who's not, how many reviewers are going to look at a particular patch, which ones will be overlooked16:45
david-lyleso I approve blueprints that are in line with the direction of the project16:46
david-lyleif someone is slated to or actively working on a blueprint, I attempt to assign it to a milestone16:46
david-lylethat person may come or go at any point depending on many factors16:46
mxudavid-lyle: thanks for the answer. The code for our BP has been for a long time.  Can core reviewers please review and approve?16:47
david-lyleI can't predict that16:47
david-lylemxu, I'm not sure which blueprint you are concerned about16:48
tsufievi have a kind of announcement :)16:48
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tsufievsome time ago (1.5 month) there was a proposal in openstack-dev ML: lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/037054.html16:49
mxudavid-lyle:  here is the code patch  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83863/  and here is the bp: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-cisco-dfa-support16:49
tsufievfinally, that proposed framework for building UIs for projects dealing with complex input data (like Heat, Mistral, Murano) got its name - 'Merlin' and wiki at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Merlin16:50
tsufievthere is not yet a line of code (active design and planning of PoC), but I think that Horizon community should know about it16:51
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tsufievespecially, because I hope that Merlin (if things go well) will become a part of Horizon eventually16:51
jpichThanks tsufiev. Is the OpenStack UX team involved as well? ( https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/UX  ) -- I usually find their inputs extremely valuable in that domain :)16:52
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rbertramI'm working with tqtran on JavaScript practices. Including instructions to set up editors with jshint & formatting.16:53
tsufievjpich, so far I've spoken only with Jacki Bauer, she has provided some initial feedback16:53
rbertramBesides Sublime & Eclipse, are people any other edtiors for JS?16:53
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jomararbertram: the js support inside pycharm is excellent16:54
david-lyletsufiev: I like the idea16:54
jristpycharm or webstorm yeah16:54
jomararbertram: and it supports jshint, etc16:54
rbertramjomara: I will look into that!16:54
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david-lyleHorizon can't really target Murano, Mistral and Solum yet16:54
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tsufievdavid-lyle, so, the most general overview is to provide framework for building complex wizards, for projects where conventional forms & wizards fail in some way16:54
david-lylehowever, it would be possible to build the UI toolkit into Horizon16:55
david-lyleand build from there16:55
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david-lyleOne of my desires is to completely rebuild the Launch Instances interface, because of the same sort of issues16:55
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david-lyleit's a usability nightmare and doesn't effectively solve the problem, it needs to be built from the bottom up16:56
tsufievdavid-lyle, is it ok for Merlin to come under 'UI' program? My management asked me to clarify that issue16:56
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jomaratsufiev: ive seen your proposal doc, it looks great (from the perspective of configuring heat stacks)16:56
jpichSounds like a discussion that would be appropriate on list, esp considering the time left16:57
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david-lyletsufiev: I think that would make sense, but that may have to go through the TC16:57
david-lylewe might want to have more discussion first16:57
tsufievjomara, it would be great if you suggested some feedback - either in ML or in wiki :). I'll more official letter in a next few days16:57
jomaratsufiev: sure, mail it out16:58
tsufiev*I'll write16:58
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tsufievjpich, sure, I will make a ML announcement16:58
david-lylemxu: my understanding is you change is still not merged in neutron, until it is, I'm not investing a lot of review time in the Horizon part16:58
jpichtsufiev: Cool!16:58
lblanchardtsufiev: thanks for sharing this! I will take a lot from another UXers point of view and give feedback too16:59
david-lyletsufiev: thanks16:59
david-lyleWe're out of time. Thanks everyone! Have a great week.16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 16:59:41 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-29-15.59.html16:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-29-15.59.txt16:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-07-29-15.59.log.html16:59
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tsufievlblanchard, that would be great, thank you :)16:59
mxudavid-lyle:  I am asking for parallel review so we can make it. Thanks!16:59
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david-lylemxu: understood17:00
lblanchardthanks all!17:00
mxuThanms David!!!17:00
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tsufievthanks everyone!17:00
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thinrichs#startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting17:01
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openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 17:01:57 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)"17:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting'17:02
thinrichsHi all17:02
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skn_Hi guys17:03
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thinrichsLooks like we have enough to get started.17:04
thinrichsWe definitely want to hear from the Tetris folks, since they were cutoff last time.17:04
thinrichsBut I don't see gokul online yet.17:04
thinrichsSo let's start with status updates.17:05
thinrichskudva: want to start?17:05
kudvaSure, couple of things17:05
kudvaCompleted the integration by adding more tests for builtin-runtime integration17:06
kudvaAddressed comments from arosen and thinrichs17:06
arosenkudva:  sounds good I"ll take another look.17:06
kudvaAlso, sent a blueprint for Congress Ceilometer integration just this morning. Very, very early first draft17:07
arosenkudva:  seems like it's still failing jenkins right now. Do you know why?17:07
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kudvaSo, the pep8 errors I can fix, they are minor (white spaces, import alphabetical order)17:08
kudvaBut the congress unit tests don't even run17:08
kudvaso, not sure why they don't run. The call to runtests itself is failing it seems17:08
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kudvaceilometer/congress integration start document17:08
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thinrichsIs that world-readable?  It says I need permission.17:09
arosenkudva:  actually i think you might need to just rebase it and it should work again. I think it's failing because of broken requirements.txt that we had at one point.17:09
kudvathinrichs: okay, will do on tests17:10
kudvathinrichs: will set the permissions,17:10
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kudvathinrichs: now anyone can read17:11
thinrichskudva: I did a quick scan over the ceilometer doc.17:11
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thinrichskudva: I think the key thing we need for an integration with Ceilometer is a description of what their data model is and how it will look in Congress.17:12
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kudvathinrichs: they store their metrics and samples in mongodb, and have apis17:13
thinrichskudva: the rest of the architecture you're describing is already in place (though we don't sometimes cache data and sometimes not)17:13
sarob#info ceilometer integration proposal #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NV8NbQTNyqWZnyhtfoKt6LQElcG6HAVPuyUHHRYE5nM/edit17:13
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thinrichsgokul: glad you could make it!  We're in the midst of getting a status update from kudva.17:13
gokulhello all.   thinrichs:  thanks.  there as a network outage last week here.17:14
kudvathinrichs: so we could access the ceilometer apis directly, but the support in Congress we need is to determine 'when' we go to local store versus Ceilometer based on variable in predicates17:14
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thinrichskudva: if the policy mentions ceilometer:cpu_util, the 'ceilometer' prefix tells Congress that the table comes from the ceilometer datasource driver.17:15
kudvathinrichs: so I will add more details and outline a full example, just wanted to run initial thoughts by the team17:15
thinrichskudva: we do that with Nova/Neutron already today.17:15
kudvathinrichs: Okay, will look at the dse code a bit more17:15
kudvathinrichs: regarding my earlier commit, rebasing is good enough to get the requirements.txt, and run jenkins tests?17:16
cloudtoadkudva:  any questions re: DSE, I will gladly assist.17:16
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thinrichskudva: check out dsepolicy.py in particular.  It's the glue the connects the policy engine to DSE.17:16
thinrichsMaybe this is a good time to give my status update then.17:17
kudvacloudtoad: okay, thanks! Would like to see the specific python code which chooses between data stores17:17
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thinrichsWe almost have a fully integrated system.17:17
thinrichsI'm planning on putting a demo script together around the private/public networking use case, mainly b/c it's small and we have the necessary data sources.17:18
sarobthinrichs: makes sense17:18
thinrichsIf all goes well I'll send out the script in the next few days.17:18
sarobthinrichs: this is what we will demo at ops summit?17:18
thinrichsThen everyone will be able to write policies against Nova/Neutron and start tracing how the code works.17:18
thinrichssarob: we should be able to demo any policy we want over Nova/Neutron sources.17:19
sarobthinrichs: sounds good.17:20
cloudtoadDo we have a table class yet, Tim?17:20
gokulso, does a fully integrated system mean:  a server running that can take some action based on some conditions [right now, nova/neutron] and policies [datalog]?17:20
thinrichscloudtoad: DSE itself doesn't have tables, but all the instances of DSE that we're using happen to send collections of tuples around (i.e. tables and table-deltas).17:21
cloudtoadRight, but is that collection defined in a class somewhere?17:21
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thinrichsgokul: just monitoring—not actions.  So that means that people can write a policy that describes the desired state of the datacenter (over Nova/Neutron datasources), and we can check if the current state of the system matches that desired state or not.17:22
thinrichscloudtoad: not within DSE but there's a Database class within the policy runtime.17:22
gokuli see.  ok.   thanks.17:22
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skn_thinrichs: Are we planning to demo Congress API support too?17:23
thinrichscloudtoad: when we talked about adding a table class to DSE, I tried it out and find a simpler change that gave us what we needed.17:23
thinrichsskn_: the API is working, so yes the demo script will have Curl commands.17:23
cloudtoadOk, I'll look at the database class...17:24
skn_Cool. Thanks.17:24
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thinrichsarosen is working on keystone integration, which will make Horizon integration straightforward, as I understand it.  That'll be helpful for the demo as well.17:24
thinrichsarosen: want to report?17:24
arosenthinrichs:  sure.17:24
arosenI'm in the mist of rebasing my keystone and policy.json integration patches. Hopefully once i get those up we'll be able to merge those later today.17:25
arosenI'm also working on devstack integration which should help us build some kind of CI system so we can automate the setup of congress.17:25
arosenThat's all I got for now to report.17:25
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thinrichsarosen: thanks!17:26
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thinrichsI think that's most of the coding progress I know about.17:27
thinrichsBefore we miss out on it again, I think we should chat with gokul about Tetris.17:27
thinrichsgokul: want to say a little about the Tetris project and why you're interested in Congress?17:28
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gokul<thinrichs> and all:   thanks.    so, we had started this initiative called Tetris, where the goal was on policy automation encompassing compliance and optimization policies.17:28
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gokulso, in summary, after looking at congress and its framework etc. we decided to merge with congress and see if we can have other policies such as17:29
gokulruntime optimization etc.17:30
gokulhowever, for congress itself, i believe it is a nice initiative and i look forward to contribute.17:30
gokulJay and others (from China) were all part of the Tetris team17:30
gokulall have now joined and will be contributing to Congress.  :)17:31
skn_I believe we have had some example runtime policies in Congress too17:31
sarobgokul: super awesome17:31
gokulthats the brief summary.  <thinrichs>:  want me to add anything else?17:31
thinrichsgokul: It's great to have you on board!17:31
thinrichsgokul: that's a good summary.17:31
thinrichsI think the cool thing is that one of the next big issues to address is how we do enforcement of policies.17:32
thinrichsAnd from what I understand that's what the Tetris team is primarily interested in.17:32
skn_That falls pretty much in line17:32
thinrichsSo it'll be great having you all help direct that aspect of the project.17:32
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skn_Let me give a brief update on the IDS use case for Congress17:33
sarob#info gokul and the tetris team has joined the congress project17:33
gokulthats correct.  conditions --> actions based on policies.   so, for this week, i'll be looking at the code and just exercise congress itself.   i'll have to find a place to focus on.17:33
gokulas I move forward.17:33
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thinrichsgokul: as soon as I get this demo script sent around to everyone, that'll be a good way to start.17:33
gokulthinrichs:  awesome!  -- look forward to it.17:34
thinrichsgokul: we have the #congress IRC channel for non-meeting time chats.17:34
thinrichsgokul: there are usually several people on it, in case you have questions.17:34
thinrichsskn_: how's the IDS use case going?17:34
gokulthinrichs: great.  will be there.17:34
skn_Yes, I was waiting until you guys are done with Tetris17:35
skn_I had a chat with banix last week17:35
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skn_on the Advanced services in Neutron proposals17:35
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skn_Although there were a number of blueprints, code wise I did not see a lot17:36
skn_So, I have some support within Neutron for tapping and sending the traffic to IDS traffic17:37
skn_I have started with Bro as the open source IDS17:37
skn_I am current working on a plan for the IDS agent for Congress17:38
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thinrichsskn_: The hope is that all you'll need to do to integrate the IDS is write a datasource driver, like the ones we have for Nova/Neutron.17:38
skn_That would interact with Bro (bro scripts, etc) and then we can have an action with Neutron/Nova17:38
thinrichsskn_: we shouldn't need to have an IDS-specific agent running on Congress.17:39
skn_Data source driver for IDS, you mean?17:39
thinrichsskn_: have you looked at how we integrated Neutron/Nova?17:39
thinrichsskn_: yes—a datasource driver for Bro in particular.17:39
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skn_Got it, I think I used the term IDS "agent", by mistake17:40
skn_I meant a data source driver17:40
thinrichsskn_: good—just wanted to make sure.17:40
skn_Yeah, thanks for the clarification17:40
gokuljust to clarify:  IDS = intrusion detection system -- correct?17:41
skn_So, once I have bro up and running, I'll start on the datasource driver17:41
skn_gokul: correct17:41
thinrichsskn_: great!17:41
gokulskn_: thanks.17:41
skn_The eventual goal is to integrate with Neutron and Nova action17:42
thinrichsOne thing cloudtoad mentioned in a review is that we should figure out what to do with services that are either unavailable or that crash, etc.17:42
thinrichsSo if on some install Bro isn't available, we should continue functioning to the extent we can.17:42
sarob#info skn_: started with Bro as the open source IDS and working on a plan for the IDS data source driver for Congress17:42
thinrichsThere would need to be some coordination with the policy engine, so it knows what services are available and which aren't.17:43
skn_Got it, thats something to keep in mind17:43
cloudtoad@thinrichs From the DSE perspective, I'd suggest, ultimately, that we simply capture those exceptions and log them.17:43
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pballandat the api, we can expose the plugin status using the /v1/data-sources/<id>/status resource17:44
cloudtoadIf there is a policy that requires a data source that is not available...  would it "do nothing" or is there a tighter coupling there?17:44
thinrichscloudtoad: agreed from the DSE perspective, but the policy engine needs to know that if IDS is unavailable that we shouldn't treat the IDS tables as empty; rather we should treat them as unknown.17:44
skn_are we logging stuffs for failures in data sources?17:44
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cloudtoadskn_ No.17:45
thinrichsskn_: right now we're throwing exceptions, partly so I didn't go crazy debugging, but also so that we remember to address this issue17:45
skn_thinrichs: one idea is to write robes policies to capture these scenarios, e.g. ids:available(), ids:xyz()17:46
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thinrichsskn_: My guess is that having the policy writer add all those xxx:availabe() checks will be hard.17:46
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thinrichsI think instead the policy engine can figuree that out itself: if a datasource isn't available, we shouldn't be evaluating any error conditions based on that service.17:47
thinrichsskn_: but I like the idea of perhaps automatically adding and populating xxx:available() checks as an implementation approach.17:47
skn_thinrichs: yes, that's what I was thinking, just automate these checks17:47
pballandthinrichs: if we use skn_’s suggestion, the policy writer could leverage existing alerting/remediation functionality to address datasource issues17:48
pballand+1 to adding the checks automatically17:48
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thinrichspballand: I like the idea of giving people the ability to check a datasource's status within policy.  Then they can choose to do it or not.17:49
cloudtoadWell, d6cage can iterate over the list of known eventlets, checking their status... then publish this information to a well known DSE bus address.17:49
pballandany volunteers to write this up as a spec?17:49
skn_Anyways, that's all I wanted to update on IDS17:50
thinrichsI'd be happy to help, but my plate is pretty full right now.  If someone else takes the lead, I'll pitch in.17:50
pballandI guess I’ll volunteer17:50
pballand#action pballand will spec exposing datasource status in policy language17:50
thinrichsskn_: sorry the conversation meandered away from IDS.  Let me know if there's anything I can help with getting the IDS spec in place.17:51
skn_Let me have a stab on the IDS spec, and then I'll update you guys17:52
thinrichsskn_: sounds good.  Thanks!17:52
skn_We should link it with the IDS use case bp, or something17:52
sarobbtw, i will continue working on getting the congress-spec repo working17:52
skn_the "compromised VM" bp has some references to IDS, I think17:52
sarobI will update the ML and channel when its ready17:53
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thinrichssarob: thanks for the update — I was just getting ready to ask about the spec repo. :)17:54
sarobthinrichs: finally got the acls file merged, but its not working so another issue to work through17:54
thinrichssarob: let us know if there's anything we can do to help.17:55
thinrichs5 minutes remaining.  Let's open it up for discussion.17:55
sarobthinrichs: yup17:55
thinrichs#topic Open Discussion17:55
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sarobregarding policy summit17:55
skn_did we submit the design summit request for Congress for Paris?17:56
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thinrichsskn_: we submitted a talk request for the Paris summit.17:57
sarobim working on a space at vmware palo alto, then i will start up a more official meeting request17:57
thinrichsskn_: sarob was talking about the policy summit, which is in Sept.17:57
sarobskn_: right17:57
cloudtoadIs there a link for the policy summit?17:57
skn_thinrichs: Got it.  I know this one is Sep 18-19, but I was asking about the Paris thing17:57
sarobcloudtoad: not until i get the place locked now, then eventbrite will be set17:58
sarobcloudtoad: with all the info and invites17:58
skn_sarob: Great17:58
pballandwe will also be attending the OpenStack silicon valley event on Sept 16th17:58
sarobpballand: is martin talking up policy or just attending17:59
skn_Are you guys attending OpenStack meet up tomorrow night?17:59
sarob#info sarob working on the policy summit location then eventbrite will be set up18:00
thinrichsWe're out of time for today.  We can continue on #congress.18:00
thinrichsThanks all!18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 18:01:02 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-29-17.01.html18:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-29-17.01.txt18:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-07-29-17.01.log.html18:01
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briancurtin#startmeeting python-openstacksdk19:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 19:00:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk'19:00
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briancurtinif you're around for the python-openstacksdk meeting, say hi19:01
briancurtinBrian Curtin, Rackspace19:01
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dtroyerdean troyer, nebula19:07
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jamielennoxJamie Lennox, Red Hat19:08
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briancurtinwas hoping terry would be around, but maybe he'll show up19:10
briancurtinhis https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104948/ just needs a comment and then it's ready to go, per last week19:10
briancurtin#topic swift status19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "swift status (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:11
briancurtinI have some of that alternate approach to swift done, but getting the container into the object resource is proving to be a bit difficult this way. the old way was injecting it into the dictionary, which is bad19:11
briancurtinit's the first resource we have that depends on additional information, not from a "/" base path19:12
briancurtinor something that can be hardcoded, really19:12
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jamielennoxbriancurtin: i had a try a while ago and came across similar problems doing a user/roles relationship19:15
jamielennoxthat doesn't mean i have an answer for you, i think it means we might need to revisit some of the assumptions made in the base object19:15
briancurtinit feels like so much of resource being classmethods makes it a little harder to build on top of19:16
briancurtinso im going to poke around a bit in teh base and see what else can be done19:17
jamielennoxbriancurtin: sounds good19:18
briancurtin#topic summit talk proposal19:18
*** openstack changes topic to "summit talk proposal (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:18
briancurtinTerry submitted a summit talk to introduce and show off the SDK and i'm going to co-present with him - let me know if anyone wants to see hte abstract since it's not public yet19:18
briancurtin#topic lower level API19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "lower level API (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)"19:19
jamielennoxbriancurtin: awesome19:19
briancurtinjamielennox: i figure as we get into it and see if it's accepted and all of that, we can all work together on it really19:20
briancurtindtroyer: a few weeks ago you were interested in talking about some lower level details and we haven't gotten back to that. what's up?19:21
dtroyerat some point I realized that the resource-level stuff you guys have been working on is what you are considering to be the low-level API, not at all what I imagined19:21
dtroyerwhat I had done for the onbject stuff in OSC what more like what I imagined, so I threw together https://github.com/dtroyer/python-openstacksdk/tree/low-level-api/openstack to demonstrate19:22
dtroyerI get the feeling, though, that I'm the only one interested in doing something like that19:22
dtroyerthe intersting bits are in openstack/sdk/compute and openstack/sdk/objectstore19:23
dtroyerthe openstack/sdk is left over from an earlier POC about the namespace19:24
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jamielennoxdtroyer: i think there is going to be a difference in what we make public facing to what we are doing now19:26
jamielennoxi don't think what we are doing with the explicit session handling is necessarily the best from a UX perspective19:27
jamielennoxparticularly when we start trying to abstract across multiple API versions19:27
dtroyerfor most app developers, that's probably true, but there are cases where I think it should be a public supported stable API, similar to the Win32 level in windows, few use it directly but its there if you know how to drive it19:28
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briancurtinjamielennox:  yeah i dont think the end-userish, high-level, will be explicltly passing in session or calling any of those *_by_id19:28
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dtroyerbecause frankly, 90% of OSC doesn't need the high-level bits19:29
dtroyerI'm including the Resource-level stuff in that FWIW19:29
jamielennoxdtroyer: yes the Resource stuff will still be considered a public api19:30
dtroyermy point is that its too high-level19:30
briancurtindtroyer: so im guessing your end goal is to have this level be all json?19:30
briancurtin*this low level19:30
dtroyerno, the JSON is in the session/transoirt stuff.  I really want a pythonic REST API.  this is just below where you take the dict from session and make a resource19:31
jamielennoxthat might be a solution to the *_by_id stuff being all class methods19:31
jamielennoxput the JSON based calls somewhere in there own file19:31
jamielennoxhave the resource use that19:31
jamielennoxwhich is nice actually because i'm not a fan that the _by_id returns a dict and not the Resource object19:32
briancurtinyeah that has made me think a couple of times19:32
dtroyerso anyway, that's what I was talking about.  I'm planning to keep going in that direction for the objectstore bits in OSC, and maybe some of the others where they are stupidly broken19:36
briancurtini like jamielennox's idea of separating out those *by_id - dtroyer would that be helpful?19:36
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dtroyerwithout knowing it to too well, I think that is a start19:38
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dtroyerin general, I think having an object know too much about its surroundings is a mistake, it limits how it can be used.  but that's old-school object pascal-stle thinking19:40
jamielennoxi think it'd be pretty much what you are wanting, just a function call, takes a session and some info and returns the raw json19:40
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jamielennoxdtroyer: no that makes sense, it's the same problem with the user/roles or object/container relationships19:41
dtroyerjamielennox: basically, yes.  but for the entire REST API.  it doesn't have to necessarily be a 1:1 mapping, but close19:41
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jamielennoxthey should know there own information but not where they came from or who they are related to19:41
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briancurtini think what i might do is checkin this swift container part since it works now, then dig into some of this resource splitting to maybe make the object part easier (or even possible)19:44
jamielennoxbriancurtin: sure, we're not worried about compatability yet19:47
dtroyerjamielennox: what is the "comp-a-table-ity" of which you speak?19:47
jamielennoxdtroyer: it's the reason people hate writing/maintaining libraries in python19:49
dtroyers/in python/that are public/  ;)19:49
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briancurtinanything else to cover while we're here?19:53
jamielennoxi'm good19:53
dtroyernothing sdk on my mind…jamielennox I didn't get to the ksc.session patch for OSC over the weekend, but when I do I many need some clarification, I don't think I fully grok the right (non-deprecated) way to set it up for a sinle session for everything19:54
briancurtincool. i'll bring the tests over and push the non-object bits of swift up and then move on to resource19:54
jamielennoxdtroyer: sure we can discuss that over in -sdk19:54
briancurtinthanks guys19:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 19:57:39 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-29-19.00.html19:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-29-19.00.txt19:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2014/python_openstacksdk.2014-07-29-19.00.log.html19:57
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