Tuesday, 2014-08-26

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david-lyle#startmeeting Horizon16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 26 16:00:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'horizon'16:00
david-lyleHello everyone16:00
ericpetersonhello16:00
gary-smith_hi16:00
jgravel__hello16:00
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tsufievhi16:00
TravThello16:00
absubram___hi16:00
jpichHello16:00
amotokihello16:01
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gugl2hi16:01
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david-lyleLet's start with J-3 and the Sept 4 deadline approaching16:01
david-lylehttps://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-316:01
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david-lyleI did some cleanup this morning16:02
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david-lyleIf there wasn't code posted yet, the bp was moved out of j0316:02
david-lyle*j-316:02
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david-lyle38 Needs Code Review, 9 Implemented16:02
david-lylethat's a lot left for review16:02
jtomasekhey16:03
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jomaraahoy!16:03
david-lylemany of those seem to be in very good shape and should merge soon16:03
david-lyleothers seem like long-shots16:03
jpichAt this stage I'd encourage people to not -1 blueprints for nits and small things but file follow-up bugs instead, that can be fixed after feature freeze but in time for the release16:04
david-lylejpich good point16:04
david-lylethe turn around on fixing nits really drags things out16:04
david-lyleand we can merge bug fixes after Sept 416:04
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amotokibut please do not lower the bar on topics on itse architecture/basic directions.16:06
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david-lylewe do have some unassigned high defects as well, if people are looking for things to do :)16:06
david-lyleamotoki: +116:06
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absubram___david-lyle: can I add 3 low priority bug-fixes to this j-3 list? They've all got +1s and have been sitting in review for weeks (need core reviews).. I've had to just keep rebasing them.. I'd like to get them before string freeze as a couple add new strings..16:07
amotokiFor bug triage, we need some process how to triage bugs like https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage .16:07
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amotokiabsubram___: bug fixes can be done after the feature freeze unless it is not big.16:08
david-lyleamotoki: gary-smith_ has been doing a lot of work in triaging the existing bug list over the past few weeks16:08
gary-smith_I been trying to follow https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugTriage16:09
amotokiyes. gary-smith_ made great jobs.16:09
david-lyleamotoki: you have too16:09
absubram___https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78708/   https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65793/  and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76787/16:09
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absubram___amotoki: I know.. these are bugs that add new strings though.. we had this issue during I.. and I don't want to repeat :)16:09
absubram___we actually didn't get these into I because of the UT issue.. but once that was fixed, these have been just sitting around waiting for reviews..16:10
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amotokimy concern is bug triage needs domain expertty, so I would like to move forward bug tagging as nova team does. we can discuss later or next week.16:10
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david-lyleamotoki: This is something I'd really like to address as well.  So far I've created the Horizon-Bugs team to increase the number of people who can triage bugs.16:11
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amotokidavid-lyle: it is nice as the first step.16:12
david-lyleyes, more is needed16:12
david-lyleI'm happy to have the informal areas of expertise become more formal as well16:12
david-lylebut I think there are several areas where there is not a clear domain expert16:13
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david-lyleother than perhaps Horizon core16:13
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david-lyleor are you suggesting assigning it and allowing people to make it their area of expertise?16:13
amotokiwhat i am thinking is to do tagging first to categorize and then prioritize bugs of some areas.16:14
amotokiseveral new dashboards were added recently and sometimes it is not easy to check bugs in such areas like heat, trove, sahara ...16:16
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amotokiif we have appropriate tagging, we can attract folks familiar with those areas. of course, we can dive into them.16:16
gary-smith_amotoki: +1. I would also encourage all the help confirm bugs in the areas they work in. That can be the hardest part of triage16:17
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gary-smith_c/the/to16:17
david-lyleamotoki: +1 on the tagging16:17
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amotokithis is the reason i like nova process: first tagging, then triage.16:18
david-lyleI think if we just mark all bugs low-hanging fruit, they'll all get picked up ;)16:18
david-lyleamotoki: ok, I understand your point now16:18
* david-lyle was lost for a minute16:18
amotokibut we don't have a list of folks responsible for areas. It is just a startline.16:18
david-lyleamotoki: agreed16:18
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amotokiI will create a draft page like Nova/BugTriage this week and add my some thought.16:20
david-lylemy remaining question is are people going to triage the bugs in the tags they are responsible for?16:20
david-lylerhetorical, no need to answer16:20
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david-lyleamotoki: thank you, I think it will be a step in the right direction16:21
amotokidavid-lyle: it is a separate topic but i cannot answer it too..... but at least tagging helps me triage neutron/network bugs.16:21
david-lyleamotoki: works for me16:21
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david-lylemoving on the agenda for today16:22
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david-lyleI think there is only one item16:23
jpichme me me16:23
david-lyle#topic Documenting more precisely the browser versions we support/test with (jpich)16:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Documenting more precisely the browser versions we support/test with (jpich) (Meeting topic: Horizon)"16:23
jpich#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/BrowserSupport16:23
jpichI think it'd be good to track browser support a bit more precisely for each release (e.g. it's hard to remember what "latest version of each browser" means for a previous release, even for a recent one like Icehouse). I think that would be useful data to keep around, even if it starts simply with what people are using Horizon with when developing.16:23
jpichSo, please update the charts on that wiki page with whatever you've been testing with, we're particularly lacking in version numbers :)16:23
jpich...Thank you :-)16:24
doug-fishThanks jpich!16:25
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david-lyleThank you jpich. I agree this is an important item to track and be able to point to for reference16:25
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david-lyleIt does come up frequently16:26
jpichIndeed16:26
david-lyle#topic Open Discussion16:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)"16:26
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amotokiI wonder how we can move forward on "More" button on tables.16:28
devlapswe replaced more with a caret about 8 months ago..16:28
devlapsno complaints from our customers..16:28
amotokidevlaps: in your deployment version?16:28
david-lyleMore seems completely unnecessary to me16:28
devlapsyup16:28
tqtranagree16:29
gary-smith_+116:29
david-lyleI'd like to have it stay as is16:29
jpichI'm concerned that this was added because it was painful enough for a group of people that they decided to write up a patch about it16:29
amotokias I commented in the bug comment, Japanese translation for "More" is just a **space** :-)16:29
devlapsit was actually our UX designers that suggested removing it..16:30
david-lyleI smell a settings value compromise16:30
devlaps:)16:30
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jpichThe separator wasn't as visible with the previous skin though, so maybe that makes the separation clearer now16:30
amotokione suggestion from liz in bug comments is to add "hover".16:30
devlapsthat's a nice compromise..16:30
jpichdavid-lyle: No, no more settings :(16:30
tqtranlol16:31
david-lylejust 20 or 30 more16:31
david-lyleI promise16:31
doug-fishMaybe a setting to enable the additonal settings?16:31
david-lyleno, really, I think we can just use the caret16:31
tqtranthe easilest solution is to shove it off to settings and call it a win-win16:31
devlapswith a default16:31
jpichAh, for people without context: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/115287/ + https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19082/16:31
jpichA new setting is a loss16:31
david-lylewe have enough space issues without adding superfluous wording16:31
devlapsright16:32
devlapsit saves a lot..16:32
amotokiand https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/135748716:32
jpichLet's choose one way and people can override the template if they wish to16:32
david-lylejpich agred16:32
david-lyle*agreed16:32
david-lylewant to vote or just go with the caret?16:33
amotoki+1. The majority here and bug reports like a way without "More" and some usability test result stands...16:33
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jpichThe developer consensus seem to be toward not having "more" anymore. I'll just abandon the patch since it doesn't look like it's going to move forward anymore as is anyway16:33
david-lylejpich, I mainly wanted to hear the uproar in favor of "More"16:34
david-lyleI haven't really witnessed that16:34
amotokiOne thing to note is a comment in the reivew: I think adding "More" was raised by a user in China, so would be great to hear the thoughts from reviewers in China.16:34
tqtranif there isnt a "more" word in japanese, i doubt there is one in chinese?16:35
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gugl2amotoki, caret works for Chinese16:35
gugl2there is a work for Chinese, but caret works too16:35
gugl2s/work/word16:35
jpichdavid-lyle: It's more like, there's no problems now. It's after the release we might the Big "More" Comeback Movement get started ;)16:36
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jpichI mean the initial patch doesn't seem to be coming from a company, it's someone who felt enough pain they decided to try and fix it16:36
david-lyleI look forward to the speeches and pamphlets16:36
gary-smith_A similar question: how to we proceed with "Server" vs. "Instance" ? ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1319088 )16:36
jpichI'm concerned that it's mainly the developers who are saying "yeah sure it's totally obvious and easy to understand"16:37
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devlapsjpich: from our experience, that's not the case.. we didn't have a single customer ticket after the switchover (but that is just us...)16:38
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amotokiI wonder where is a better place to ask? is it better to ask it in ops-list or general list?16:38
david-lyledevlaps: switchover?16:38
devlapsdavid-lyle: from "more" to caret..16:39
devlapsoopss..16:39
devlapsstill on the last discussion point.. sorry about that..16:39
david-lyleno worries, just thought maybe you switched from Instance to Server16:39
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devlapsnot yet.. but we definitely need to address this..16:39
amotokino worries. both are similar topic.16:39
jpich_I'm sorry, there's a power cut where I am - for the Server/Instance thing I wish it's worth a multi-project conversation on the ML16:40
jpich_er... s/wish/think/16:40
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david-lyleI'd like to see us align with docs more than anyone else16:41
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jpich_I think it's confusing when the CLI and Horizon have different words too, especially for such an essential concept16:42
doug-fishjpich_, agreed16:42
david-lylejpich_: to be fair, I think we are targeting different personas16:42
amotokijpich_: agree16:42
david-lylebut it's a valid point16:42
david-lylethere should be consistency16:43
david-lyleand we can change much easier than the CLIs and APIs16:43
amotokiin addition, "instance" is used in various context.16:43
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david-lylewhat happens when Ironic becomes integrated? what's the term then?16:44
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david-lyleI think this requires some more input. I think a mailing list thread is probably the best bet16:45
sambettsI prefer the use of Instance for virtual machines/lxcs etc. and Server for physical hosts16:46
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david-lylethe more topic was different than I originally believed, was thinking pagination16:48
david-lyleon that line16:49
david-lyleI think we have to adopt our own pagination representation and use that across all projects regardless of how they present pagination16:49
david-lyleto do that, we need the client side pagination and table patches16:50
david-lylebut that's a Kilo item :)16:50
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david-lylejust curious of others' thoughts on that16:50
amotokiregaring "pagination", Filtering with pagination in horizon doesn't work practically....16:50
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david-lyleright, we need the list on the client side and filter/paginate there16:51
devlapsright..16:51
tsufievdavid-lyle,  does client-side pagination reduce the amount of items returned on one request?16:51
david-lyletsufiev: well no, that's the downside16:51
david-lyleof course16:51
clu_:(16:52
david-lylethe number displayed on the client is limited16:52
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david-lylebut the data is all there16:52
sambettswouldn't it be possible to setup a ajax based pagination system maintaining a cache of items on the webserver?16:53
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rbertramdavid-lyle: I assume client-side pagination (like clu_) for tables without too many rows? And something else for long tables like instances?16:53
tsufievsambetts, +116:53
devlapsdavid-lyle: for data sets < 1000 entries (potentially more) client-side gives a nice ux16:53
rbertramsambetts: +116:53
david-lylesambetts: yes16:53
devlapsand yes to the caching..16:53
devlapsonly problem is cache invalidation :)16:53
devlapswhich is a problem anyway..16:53
david-lylebut that's a problem on the client as well16:54
devlapsyup16:54
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devlapsit would be great to solve this though.. it's a really *big* usability issue..16:54
david-lylebut I think our strategy has to be get the exhaustive list and store it either on the server or the client and paginate/filter from that list16:54
david-lyledevlaps: absolutel16:55
david-lyley16:55
david-lyle!16:55
david-lyleha16:55
devlapsespecially with customers that have large numbers of HV/Server/Instances16:55
devlaps:)16:55
david-lyleand we have no consistency16:55
devlapsright..16:55
tqtran*cough cough* wouldnt moving toward angular client-side work help this goal in the long run?16:55
rbertramdavid-lyle: we need async refresh through the cache up to the browser. Not easy.16:55
devlapstqtran: we have some work on this16:55
devlapswould be happy to share..16:56
rbertramtqtran: +116:56
david-lyletqtran: yes16:56
sambettsI would be easier to fix cache invalidation at the webserver level than at the clientside, is there no way for horizon to get a trigger off openstack if something changes?16:56
devlapsyup16:56
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tqtranonce everything becomes passing json, it becomes easy to do ajax request from cache16:56
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david-lylesambetts: not now, we can try to tie in to the event queues, but that's a much bigger item, although highly desired16:57
devlapsactually.. there is some work already done to do this..16:57
devlapsdigging up the url..16:57
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david-lylewould love event driven notifications16:57
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devlapsyup. it includes that..16:58
david-lylethere was a proof of concept some time ago16:58
rbertramdavid-lyle +1 on events16:58
devlapsdavid-lyle: it was pretty nice and easy to get up and running..16:58
gary-smith_hopefully could be leveraged for getting messages from async operations16:58
amotokiBTW, regarding review priorities, is it better to focus on reviews related blueprints over bugs this week?16:59
david-lyledevlaps: just a major change and those are harder to land16:59
david-lyleamotoki: absolutely, we can land the bugs post Sept 416:59
devlapsdavid-lyle: unfortunately, yes. but a big win if we could land it!16:59
david-lyleand if we want things to land, it's best to get them in the queue this week rather than next16:59
devlapsBtw, if folks are interested in some of the UX work we have done recently, I gave a presentation on Horizon last week at CloudOpen: http://slidesha.re/1pkqQRn. There are some screenshots towards the end of some of our customization and statistics work. We also have quite a few additional UX modifications in the pipeline (hope to upstream soon!). Any feedback welcome…16:59
amotokidavid-lyle: the consensus on priority is important :-)16:59
david-lyleyes BP reviews this week please17:00
david-lyleout of time17:00
david-lylehappy reviewing17:00
david-lyleand keep the wheels turning for Kilo17:00
david-lyle#endmeeting17:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 26 17:01:00 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-08-26-16.00.html17:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-08-26-16.00.txt17:01
david-lyleThanks everyone17:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-08-26-16.00.log.html17:01
amotokithanks17:01
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devlapsthanks all!17:01
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pballand#startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting17:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 26 17:02:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is pballand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:02
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)"17:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting'17:02
pballandhello everyone17:02
harrisonkellyhey17:02
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pballandharrisonkelly: good morning/afternoon17:02
pballandI expect a small crowd this week due to confrerences17:03
pballandanyone else around?17:03
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sarobsarob17:03
sarobis17:03
sarobhere17:03
pballandhey sarob17:03
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pballandlets just give a quick status update for those reading the logs, and get back up to speed next week17:04
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pballandharrisonkelly: you’ve been hard at work - how’s DSE going?17:04
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pballandharrisonkelly: seems to have fallen asleep17:05
harrisonkellygood, I think i finished getting the DSE to use eventlets17:05
harrisonkellyIf there is anything left to do on the DSE, I can start working on something else17:06
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pballandcool - once thinrichs takes a look, we should be able to merge it17:06
pballandharrisonkelly: there is plenty of stuff needed - it would be great if you have the cycles17:06
pballandthe first item that comes to mind is to add functionality to the cage to query the status of each datsource17:06
harrisonkellyI have some time this week, but I’m going to have less starting next week because of school17:06
harrisonkellywhat do you mean by status? Like ‘running’ or ‘stopped’?17:07
pballandbasically, each datasource should have basic health like {running, error}, and other fields like ‘last_update_time’17:08
pballandthose are just (bad) examples17:08
harrisonkellySo basically any information that I can collect from the services?17:08
pballandultimately, the requirement is for the policy engine to be able to understand when a datasource is having trouble17:08
pballandfor example, the neutron plugin may be up and running, but may have connection issues with the Neutron API endpoint17:09
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pballandthe info will also be exposed on the /v1/data-sources/<ds-id>/status API path17:09
harrisonkellyok, I can take a look into that17:10
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pballandharrisonkelly: that would be great - unfortunately we don’t have a spec for the work yet, so that would be a good place to start so we can refine the design17:11
harrisonkellyok, I’ll start that today17:11
pballandgreat!17:11
pballandsarob: did you want to update us on specs17:12
sarobrighto17:12
sarobthe basics are merged17:12
sarobi am going to backport a few blueprints to specs17:13
sarobthat are missing specs17:13
sarobi will be proposing a way to track17:13
sarobspecs between releases17:13
sarobthats it17:13
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pballandsarob: that’s great - can you please update the wiki with the new link to specs: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Congress#How_To_Create_a_Blueprint17:14
sarobwill do17:14
pballandperfect17:14
sarobthanks for noticing17:14
pballandlooks like a couple other people joined - for those coming in, we’re on a skeleton crew due to concurrent conferences this week17:14
pballandanyone else have updates they want to discuss this week?17:15
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pballandFrom a project status standpoint we tagged an alpha release last week, and are pushing for people to try out the code17:16
pballandthe POC use case is working from a demo perspective, and we will be shifting to filing out the rough edges17:16
* sarob wiki updated with new spec repo location17:17
pballandsarob: thanks17:17
pballandthe other item coming up is the policy summit - sarob has been leading that - can you give us an update?17:17
sarobthe policy summit etherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-midcycle-policy-summit17:18
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sarobneeds some attention17:18
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sarobwe have 38 people signed up for the event17:18
sarobi have mikal on the hook for both finding us a nova policy standin17:19
saroband updating the nova policy session on the etherpad17:19
sarobi have some notes from mikal that i will be17:19
sarobputting into the etherpad agenda as well17:19
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sarobthats it17:19
pballandcool, thanks sarob17:20
sarob;)17:20
pballandif there are topics that are near and dear to you to discuss at the summit, be sure to add them to the etherpad17:20
pballandthat’s all I had for this week17:21
pballand#topic Open Discussion17:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)"17:21
kudvaHi, I have a problem with install17:21
kudvatrying to check in some code which I need to test. standalone install fails. Any guesses on what it may be?17:22
pballandhi kudva what are you running for install?17:22
kudvahttps://bugs.launchpad.net/congress/+bug/136062917:22
kudvapballand: cloned from git and followed the "standalone" instructions (not devstack) in the README17:23
pballandwhat OS / version ?17:23
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kudvaUbuntu Precise I think17:23
kudvaRecommend a different one?17:23
rajdeepwhat is your tox version?17:23
kudvarajdeep: let me check17:24
rajdeepplease make sure it is tox 1.517:24
kudvarajdeep: will do. Will reinstall and try again. Thanks!17:24
pballanda lot of the OpenStack packages have specific package version dependencies that conflict with what Ubuntu has in APT17:24
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pballandin general, try to uninstall any python dependencies installed from apt, and install from pip instead17:25
rajdeepeven pip version can give heart burns17:26
kudvapballand: ah, got it, will try that :)17:26
rajdeepmake sure you install latest pip17:26
kudvarajdeep: I have pip. It's possible I have a mix of pip and apt installs. need to clean up17:26
rajdeeppython get-pip.py17:26
rajdeepplease don't use apt-get to install pip17:26
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rajdeepit installs older version..hence your issues17:27
kudvarajdeep: okay, I'll clean up all the packages and start over17:27
kudvarajdeep; thanks17:27
rajdeepkudva : my pleasure17:27
rajdeeppython reminds me of dll17:27
rajdeep:)17:27
pballandkudva: thanks for the report - if there is anything we can do to make the instructions more clear, please let us know (or submit a patch) :)17:28
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kudvapballand: I'll redo everything and summarize for the benefit of others who may try standalone17:28
pballandkudva: thanks so much!17:29
rajdeepperhaps check pip / tox versions17:29
rajdeepin a script17:29
kudvarajdeep: okay17:30
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pballandkudva: have you been able to use run_tests.py instead of tox?17:31
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kudvapballand: didnt' try this time. Just followed instructions in README17:32
pballandkudva: ah - I didn’t realize we suggested tox instead of run_tests17:34
pballandnot sure why that is17:34
kudvapballand: okay, in that case, let me do a clean install and try both run_tests and tox17:34
pballandthat would be really helpful17:34
pballandany other concerns or comments for this forum?17:36
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pballandok, thanks for coming this week17:37
pballand#endmeeting17:38
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:38
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 26 17:38:05 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:38
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-08-26-17.02.html17:38
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-08-26-17.02.txt17:38
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-08-26-17.02.log.html17:38
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