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| glebo | lo | 18:33 |
|---|---|---|
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: badveli glebo: hi | 18:34 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: hi | 18:34 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: lo | 18:34 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | apologies for the delay in starting | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | had issues with my client | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets get started | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:35 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: np | 18:35 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 15 18:35:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:35 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:35 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | any big announcements, or info, that people want to share at the outset? ;-) | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Bugs | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:36 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | we are getting close to the Juno release (RC2 has been out for a few days) | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | did our testing reveal any new FWaaS related issues? | 18:36 |
| glebo | we could talk about the brewing consensus around moving vendor-specific code out of neutron, but why don't we cover that after the other status stuff | 18:36 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: yes sure | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #chairs SridarK badveli glebo | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | in case my client acts up | 18:37 |
| glebo | ack | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | IRC bot did not not seem to like that | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #chairs | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #chair | 18:38 |
| openstack | Current chairs: SumitNaiksatam | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #chair SridarK badveli glebo | 18:38 |
| openstack | Current chairs: SridarK SumitNaiksatam badveli glebo | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: badveli: anything new/critical it terms of bugs that showed up on your radars? | 18:39 |
| badveli | i did not see anything new | 18:39 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: have not noticed either | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | btw, this is a good time to turn our attention to pending Client issues | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i believe there is at least one patch that is for review | 18:40 |
| glebo | r either badveli or SridarK doing any testing themselves, or r we just receiving bugs (when they come) from others doing integrated system testing? | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/104132 | 18:40 |
| glebo | said another way, is anyone actively pushing on the FWaaS code directly? Or just looking to see that it doesn't break other things | 18:40 |
| badveli | i have my set up | 18:40 |
| glebo | ? | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: we have two parallel paths | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: we rely on the upstream gate to catch regressions | 18:41 |
| glebo | (sorry for the newbie question, just trying to get caught up. We can take it offline, if people prefer) | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: and then we do manual testing as well | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: very fair question | 18:42 |
| glebo | ack | 18:42 |
| SridarK | i am working on some vendor stuff but that is based on Juno so getting some testing done there | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | on the manual testing front both badveli and SridarK have been active | 18:42 |
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| badveli | yes | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | btw, thanks SridarK and badveli for that effort! | 18:42 |
| glebo | *snaps for badveli & SumitNaiksatam* | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: :-) | 18:43 |
| SridarK | no worries :-) | 18:43 |
| * SumitNaiksatam applauds as well | 18:43 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: the main concern is with regressions at this point | 18:43 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | and in the context of the DVR | 18:43 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i think we need to formalize this in some form | 18:43 |
| glebo | re: snaps: s/SumitNaiksatam/SridarK | 18:44 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: this? | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | since we could not get any new features into juno anyway! ;-) | 18:44 |
| glebo | ah | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: this being pre-Juno release | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: fyi - #link | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: fyi - #link | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: fyi - #link | 18:45 |
| glebo | so it was mostly ensuring that our pre-existing code didn't foobar the DVR stuff in Juno? | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: yes, that and the support for N-S that we added (in the DVR context) | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: fyi - #link | 18:46 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok related activity | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Docs | 18:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:46 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: are we covered? | 18:47 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i am on the hook for wrapping up the DVR docs | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: i am asking in the context of the network install guide | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ah good | 18:47 |
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| SridarK | just need to loo at the format of the things - i will get a review out next week | 18:47 |
| SridarK | *look | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: do you have a patch posted or are you coordinating with someone on the DVR team to push a consoliated patch? | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok, i think you answered my question | 18:48 |
| SridarK | I was just going to address it in the context of FWaaS | 18:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: do you have the LP bug link handy? (just for the record here) | 18:48 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: no for this it did not create a bug | 18:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we have this one: #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1346986 | 18:48 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ah i remember, i think we had an AI to follow up with Rudrajit? | 18:49 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes Rudrajit to my surprise does not show up in cisco anymore | 18:50 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:50 |
| SridarK | I will reach out | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: oops | 18:51 |
| SridarK | but this is a bit dated so not sure if relevant | 18:51 |
| SridarK | in any case will cover the DVR support as a separate bug | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: great | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok so i will jump to open discussion since we are not tracking a specific feature/bug at this point | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Open Discussion | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:52 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: you were making a point earlier? | 18:52 |
| glebo | about the vendor specific code? | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: i believe so | 18:53 |
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| glebo | yeah, so | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: i think there is already good support for that | 18:53 |
| glebo | I've been working hard to figure out | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: not just in the context of fwaas, but vendor plugins in general (or at least that was the last discussion i recall on the ML) | 18:54 |
| glebo | what the core issues are that are resulting in all our FWaaS, GBP and vendor plugin code from not seeing integration into mainline | 18:54 |
| glebo | talking to a bunch of different folks | 18:54 |
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| SridarK | glebo: i added a comment to the ether pad also in the fwaas context and completely on board | 18:54 |
| glebo | and seeing that the cores' main issue for Neutron/* is | 18:55 |
| glebo | clean up, stability, and feature parity with Nova Networking, | 18:55 |
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| badveli | to me it seemed like there is a nova | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: yeah | 18:55 |
| glebo | in order to have a strong foundation of neutron | 18:55 |
| badveli | parity that is important | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: its not specific to FWaaS, GBP or vendor plugins, its any new feature or code in general | 18:55 |
| glebo | on which to build all the service layers features we all want | 18:55 |
| SridarK | This is probab among the most important things to cover _before_ we talk about stuff coming out of neutron | 18:56 |
| glebo | and, | 18:56 |
| glebo | in order to retire nova-networking, so the nova folks aren't blocked on that stuff, | 18:56 |
| glebo | which they are bogging down in now, and don't want to be | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: yeah | 18:56 |
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| badveli | but how do we add features now? | 18:56 |
| glebo | so there is a lot of pressure on the neutron cores to get their sh1t together, | 18:56 |
| glebo | all of this, while there is a MAJOR growing pain occuring across all OS, and cores are stretched to the bone, | 18:57 |
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| glebo | its a bit of a confluence of events that just leave little cycles to do the "icing" feaures, | 18:57 |
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| glebo | even though the icing features are what the customers all need in order to deploy | 18:58 |
| glebo | so, | 18:58 |
| badveli | understand the nova parity things and all the efforts | 18:58 |
| glebo | in trying to figure out how to eleviate the pain where it is felt most for the cores, | 18:58 |
| badveli | how do we add feature now? | 18:58 |
| badveli | to the mainline | 18:58 |
| glebo | how do we make their lives easier, is the question I've been asking them, and | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: thats a reasonable summary | 18:59 |
| glebo | the most immediate thing I see that would help is to pull all the | 18:59 |
| glebo | vendor-specific code out of neutron, which | 18:59 |
| glebo | relieves pressure, test scope, reviews, bloat, etc from Neutron, | 18:59 |
| glebo | while | 18:59 |
| glebo | giving us essentially a bit more freedom to develop a bit faster, and own our own destiny, | 19:00 |
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| glebo | in essence, the plug-ins will become their own project, for any given area like FWaaS or LBaaS, | 19:00 |
| glebo | where | 19:00 |
| SridarK | glebo: pulling code out is probab a good thing but if the interfaces to neutron are not clearly defined - we will be floating away in space :-) | 19:00 |
| glebo | SridarK: *getting to that* | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: dont confuse advances services’ with vendor code | 19:01 |
| glebo | SridarK: *typing as fast as his little fingers will allow* | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: for vendor plugins to support a feature, its API has to be first exposed somewhere | 19:02 |
| SridarK | glebo: :-) no worries | 19:02 |
| glebo | our plugins will truly be | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: today that happens to be neutron | 19:02 |
| pc_m | +1 | 19:02 |
| glebo | PLUGINS, not mainline code, | 19:02 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: we can pull the vendor plugins out of neutron | 19:02 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: plugins are only an implementation of the API that is exposed in the “mainline" | 19:02 |
| * SumitNaiksatam is glad the pc_m is watching over our shoulder ;-P | 19:03 | |
| glebo | and then it is up to us to very clearly work w/in the related neutron areas to define, code, merge in the interfaces, constructs, etc, we need to make a framework for the plugins, | 19:03 |
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| glebo | however, the framework MUST stay common, | 19:03 |
| pc_m | seems to make sense for vendor items to come out of Neutron, IMO | 19:03 |
| glebo | we can't go off splintering tons of "mine, mine, mine" features to differentiate over each other, | 19:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: that would mean that you would not be able to add new features until neutron reaches the perceived “stability" | 19:04 |
| glebo | or we will drift, as SridarK feared | 19:04 |
| glebo | *fingers tired. listening to others now* | 19:04 |
| badveli | correct sumit | 19:04 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: pulling vendor extensions out of the main tree is very achievable | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: in fact you can even do that today, just publish a pypi package :-) | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | *vendor extensions -> vendor plugins (and perhaps extensions as well) | 19:05 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: not that I'm giving up, but what I'm hearing is we aren't going to be given air time to add new features until "stability" anyway, | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: correct | 19:05 |
| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: Does that then implement the driver and it gets selected in INI? | 19:05 |
| glebo | so we can pull it out and work on the side, or keep it all in and stall | 19:05 |
| badveli | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Neutron_Gap_Coverage | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: yeah, that could be one option i guess | 19:05 |
| glebo | given the choice, i prefer the latter | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: pull out what? | 19:05 |
| badveli | i had see the neutron gap coverage that | 19:06 |
| glebo | s/stall/stahl | 19:06 |
| glebo | *he thinks that's how its spelled, but spelling was never his strong point* | 19:06 |
| badveli | sumit i think right now is this important | 19:07 |
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| badveli | ? | 19:07 |
| glebo | badveli is right, that's the holy grail right now | 19:07 |
| badveli | the gap coverage | 19:07 |
| glebo | for the record of the chat, | 19:07 |
| glebo | #link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Neutron_Gap_Coverage | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: sorry i lost you there | 19:07 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: where is "there"? | 19:07 |
| glebo | *giggles playfully* | 19:08 |
| badveli | Sumit i think untill the gap coverage is done | 19:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: what you are proposing to pull out and what you are proposing keep in (and “stahl”) | 19:08 |
| badveli | adding new stuff would not be possible | 19:08 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: sorry, I was saying that, as I see it, | 19:08 |
| glebo | we have 2 options: | 19:08 |
| glebo | (1) | 19:08 |
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| glebo | pull out the vendor extenstions from the main tree, and structure them truly as optional modules that the operators can choose to "install", or | 19:10 |
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| glebo | (2) stay in and simply stahl for a while | 19:10 |
| glebo | given the two options, I like opt 2 | 19:10 |
| SridarK | glebo: i think we need to discuss where services will be and then the vendor stuff comes next | 19:11 |
| pc_m | glebo: (2) is really frustrating, from personal experience. | 19:11 |
| glebo | and I think that option pleases a lot of the cores too, because it will help ease the pain during the gap-closure period of history in which we all find ourselves presently | 19:11 |
| glebo | SridarK: maybe so | 19:11 |
| glebo | SridarK: AND | 19:11 |
| glebo | SridarK: I think that conversation will be far better received once the cores see the longer range picture of removing the vendor-specific code in an effort to help get the gap closed | 19:12 |
| glebo | pc_m: I hear u on that | 19:13 |
| SridarK | glebo: for stuff that is in already in terms of the API yes we can worry about the vendor stuff, but if want to get new features in then we need to see how services come out | 19:13 |
| SridarK | if we cannot add things like service groups for example | 19:13 |
| glebo | SridarK: true | 19:13 |
| SridarK | so there are 2 (possibly and likely) parallel paths | 19:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | sorry, folks, just realized that i have a hard stop | 19:14 |
| SridarK | if as vendors we come - if we need to add an extension that is vendor specific - how we can do that if we are outside is still a challenge as SumitNaiksatam pointed out | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i will check back the logs | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and continue the discussion later | 19:14 |
| glebo | SridarK: but once the cores see that we get the gap issue, and are willing to do some serious heavy lifiting to help out, they may be more helpful wrt the common-framework build-up features need to EMPOWER services to be out on their own | 19:14 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: sounds good | 19:15 |
| glebo | SridarK: see the point? | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: badveli glebo: if you will be kind enough to end the meeitng when done | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | great discussion! | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thanks all! | 19:15 |
| badveli | ok | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | later | 19:15 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: ack. syl | 19:15 |
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| SridarK | glebo: yes agree but it is important that the necessary stuff is done in neutron _before_ things are pulled out | 19:15 |
| SridarK | if the order is reversed we will be waiting for a couple of releases to have something working | 19:16 |
| glebo | SridarK: well, I think the move that earns us a "well played" at the end is to say, | 19:16 |
| glebo | SridarK: "Sure, we'll go ahead and pull out, but here's the list of what we need in order to do that rationally, w/o regressing to a lesser feature state." | 19:17 |
| SridarK | glebo: exactly | 19:17 |
| glebo | SridarK: and, in so doing, we get our stuff progressed. | 19:17 |
| SridarK | glebo: and possibly the most important conversation to have at the summit | 19:17 |
| glebo | SridarK: and everyone feels like they are getting what they want, us, cores, etc. | 19:17 |
| glebo | SridarK: win-win's are good. Happy people. | 19:18 |
| SridarK | glebo: yes and that is a very reasonable place to be for all | 19:18 |
| badveli | +100 to sridark, glebo | 19:18 |
| pc_m | sounds like a good plan | 19:19 |
| glebo | i wasn't sure how all y'all would feel about this plan | 19:19 |
| SridarK | glebo: i think most are in alignment with this - we just need to articulate that and have a good conversation on this | 19:19 |
| glebo | now that we appear to have alignment internally, | 19:19 |
| glebo | meaning here in FWaaS, | 19:19 |
| glebo | I think the next step is to get the LBaaS folks on board | 19:20 |
| SridarK | glebo: and also as vendors | 19:20 |
| SridarK | glebo: yes | 19:20 |
| glebo | SridarK: we r the vendors, no? | 19:20 |
| SridarK | glebo: that is what i meant as vendors we are in alignment too | 19:20 |
| SridarK | glebo: in addition to fwaas sub team | 19:21 |
| glebo | then step 3 would be to continue socializing this idea with more and more cores, | 19:21 |
| glebo | and the idea is that we do step 3 in parallel to step 2 | 19:21 |
| glebo | SridarK: agreed | 19:21 |
| SridarK | glebo: i think we have a plan | 19:21 |
| glebo | *hears music to his ears* | 19:22 |
| glebo | :-D | 19:22 |
| SridarK | glebo: and pc_m is on vpnaas | 19:22 |
| SridarK | so we have that as well | 19:22 |
| glebo | SridarK: ah yes, we'd definitely need to add vpnaas to step 2. Good catch, m8 | 19:23 |
| pc_m | vpnaas == forgotten stepchild | 19:23 |
| SridarK | pc_m: :-) | 19:23 |
| glebo | pc_m: LoL | 19:23 |
| glebo | pc_m: bastard step child? | 19:23 |
| glebo | pc_m: hope not!! | 19:24 |
| pc_m | Not many people working on it, so even harder to get visibility | 19:24 |
| pc_m | glebo: :) | 19:24 |
| glebo | pc_m: patience, my friend. | 19:24 |
| glebo | pc_m: the order of networking things is ALWAYS: | 19:24 |
| glebo | pc_m: connectivity, access control, privacy, auth | 19:25 |
| glebo | pc_m: it's like maslows hierarchy of needs for new networking technologies / protocols | 19:25 |
| glebo | pc_m: https://www.google.com/search?q=maslow%27s+hierarchy+of+needs&espv=2&biw=964&bih=716&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Tco-VPCfIYvgoASMtYGYDA&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQsAQ | 19:26 |
| pc_m | :) | 19:26 |
| glebo | coming up on closing time | 19:27 |
| glebo | anything else? | 19:27 |
| badveli | do let me know if you need help in putting things before you go to summit | 19:27 |
| SridarK | nothing else from me | 19:27 |
| SridarK | i think we can call it a wrap | 19:27 |
| SridarK | see u folks later and thanks | 19:27 |
| glebo | badveli: u going to summit? | 19:27 |
| glebo | badveli: I know Yi is. | 19:27 |
| badveli | that all from my side, thanks all | 19:28 |
| SridarK | ok i am ending | 19:28 |
| badveli | no | 19:28 |
| pc_m | see you folks at the summit! | 19:28 |
| SridarK | #endmeeting | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:28 | |
| glebo | l8r, all | 19:28 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 15 19:28:24 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-10-15-18.35.html | 19:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-10-15-18.35.txt | 19:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-10-15-18.35.log.html | 19:28 |
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| badveli | some how i have a problem in the scrolling in teh web chat | 19:28 |
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