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| david-lyle_afk | #startmeeting Horizon | 16:05 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 11 16:05:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle_afk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:05 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:05 |
| *** david-lyle_afk is now known as david-lyle | 16:06 | |
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| akrivoka | hello :) | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | anyone here for the Horizon meeting? or did the time change in the US confuse people? | 16:07 |
| tmazur | hello o/ | 16:07 |
| pkarikh | Hi. :) | 16:07 |
| wchrisj | hello | 16:07 |
| mwhagedorn | I am here @david :) | 16:07 |
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| john-davidge | I am here, but perpetually confused | 16:07 |
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| sanjay | Hi David | 16:08 |
| ericpeterson | hey all | 16:08 |
| mwhagedorn | hey ericpeterson | 16:08 |
| pkarikh | david-lyle, if you hadn't said in the horizon channel, I 'd be confused | 16:08 |
| kanchan | Hi all | 16:09 |
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| crobertsrh | Hello/ | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | I don't have a whole lot for today, mostly post summit catch up | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | but a couple of items are on the agenda | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | For those that were able to make the summit, thank you for your attendance | 16:10 |
| david-lyle | I think it was a very productive time | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | For those that weren't able to attend, links to the etherpads for the sessions can be found | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Kilo/Etherpads#Horizon | 16:11 |
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| david-lyle | Buried in the end of the Contributors meetup is an outline of the prioritized features for Kilo | 16:12 |
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| david-lyle | Those will shortly end up as blueprints scheduled for the milestones in the Kilo release | 16:13 |
| john-davidge | Would just like to say that the Horizon contributors meeting was definitely one of the most productive of the day, so thanks David for chairing that. | 16:14 |
| david-lyle | Other items will be able to be added, but those will be the priority | 16:14 |
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| david-lyle | john-davidge: I agree that it was very productive | 16:15 |
| david-lyle | There is interest in having a mid-cycle meet up | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | I think the proposed local would be somewhere on the East coast of the US and probably in January | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | still trying to nail down specifics | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | so keep that in mind | 16:16 |
| david-lyle | Any one have anything to add or clarify around the summit? | 16:17 |
| david-lyle | I will also be typing up a more formal summit report and post that | 16:17 |
| david-lyle | alright on to the agenda | 16:18 |
| jpich | mrunge posted a summary as well at http://www.matthias-runge.de/2014/11/10/horizon-kilo-summit/ FYI | 16:18 |
| jpich | (The more reports the better though!) | 16:19 |
| david-lyle | The agenda can be found https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon | 16:20 |
| david-lyle | #topic What is Horizon's accessibility statement? (asahlin) | 16:20 |
| david-lyle | doh | 16:21 |
| *** david-lyle is now known as david-lyle_afk | 16:21 | |
| david-lyle_afk | #topic What is Horizon's accessibility statement? (asahlin) | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What is Horizon's accessibility statement? (asahlin) (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:21 | |
| akrivoka | heh... | 16:21 |
| jpich | It's ok to also ask these questions directly on list rather than wait for Tuesdays | 16:21 |
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| david-lyle_afk | forgot I started the meeting with a different nick | 16:22 |
| david-lyle_afk | asahlin not around? | 16:22 |
| david-lyle_afk | I believe the author was doug-fish | 16:22 |
| jpich | doug-fish was looking into it and created the web page linked in the agenda ( https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/WebAccessibility ), my understanding of the current situation would be that we want to do better but no one has had time to work on it so far | 16:23 |
| david-lyle_afk | That's my understanding as well | 16:23 |
| david-lyle_afk | let's have asahlin follow up with specific questions/concerns when he's around | 16:24 |
| asahlin | Hey all sorry, didn't realize the meeting time changed.. Or my calendar entry changed ;-) | 16:24 |
| jpich | There was a strategy discussed at the last-last summit too -> see "Help! I found a bug" in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Dashboard_Accessibility (filing bugs for each problem found, then fixing them) | 16:24 |
| david-lyle_afk | asahlin: confusing time of year as all meeting times are in UTC | 16:25 |
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| asahlin | The question arose from a code review I was doing and realizing Horizon has a larger accessibility issue. Which brought me to what is Horizon statement on accessibility, is there anything being done / in plan | 16:25 |
| asahlin | Since then I exchanged emails with Doug Fish and situation is as jpich just posted | 16:26 |
| john-davidge | Pro-Tip: Put the meeting times into your calendar on Iceland (Rekyjavik) time if it doesn't have a UTC option :) | 16:26 |
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| jpich | asahlin: Feel free to ask this kind of question on list directly, that way the answers can be more easily referenced as well :) | 16:26 |
| asahlin | jpich: sure that makes sense, will do that. | 16:27 |
| david-lyle | asahlin: mainly we need someone to pick this up and make progress | 16:27 |
| jpich | Just for next time | 16:27 |
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| david-lyle | there is no argument around the need | 16:27 |
| asahlin | david-lyle: And currently no one is driving it... so its just report defect and fix in pieces, Is that correct? | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | asahlin: yes | 16:28 |
| jpomero | asahlin, i think you should talk to doug-fish, accessibility is one of his goals iirc | 16:29 |
| asahlin | david-lyle: ok, at this point that's all I wanted to know. | 16:29 |
| asahlin | jpomero: yeah, will follow up with Doug | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | asahlin, sounds good | 16:30 |
| *** david-lyle is now known as david-lyle_afk | 16:30 | |
| david-lyle_afk | #topic Lock instance [akrivoka] | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Lock instance [akrivoka] (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:30 | |
| *** david-lyle_afk is now known as david-lyle | 16:30 | |
| akrivoka | so, one of the pain points that came up in the operators session was the lack of lock instance functionality in Horizon | 16:30 |
| akrivoka | we have a blueprint for it here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/lock-unlock-server | 16:30 |
| akrivoka | so I started looking into it and discovered that there is a missing piece of functionality related to the lock instance feature in nova itself - namely the ability to get lock status of an instance | 16:31 |
| akrivoka | simply said, there is no way to tell, by looking at an instance, if it's locked or not | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | well that's a bit of a hole, even for command line users | 16:32 |
| jpich | Is there an open bug in Nova to track this? | 16:32 |
| akrivoka | there seems to be a patch currently on review in nova, which is adding this missing part: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131094/ | 16:32 |
| akrivoka | but that patch doesn't look ready to merge | 16:32 |
| jpich | Cool! Should be referenced in the horizon bp too | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | Yeah that BP needs an update | 16:32 |
| akrivoka | my question to you guys is, considering this drawback, do we want to add the lock instance feature to Horizon now? | 16:32 |
| akrivoka | no probs, I will update the bp | 16:32 |
| akrivoka | so, we would be able to lock/unlock, but lock-status would not be visible | 16:33 |
| akrivoka | (the same fucntionality as the command line has now) | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | akrivoka: is locking an instance driver specific? | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | is there another tool reporting this status | 16:34 |
| akrivoka | david-lyle: I don't know... | 16:34 |
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| akrivoka | not as far as I've been able to find out | 16:34 |
| david-lyle | I just find it odd that this would be a useful feature that operators would want unless there was | 16:34 |
| david-lyle | maybe just all instances are locked upon creation in certain environments | 16:35 |
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| david-lyle | If that is a normal use case, I would be ok with adding the controls to lock and unlock and later improve with current status | 16:35 |
| akrivoka | david-lyle: thanks! I will investigate more and see what I come up with | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | maybe make two work items in the blueprint to address the first pass at functionality and then the improved functionality once the nova change merges | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | akrivoka: thanks! | 16:37 |
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| akrivoka | david-lyle: sounds good - will do that! | 16:37 |
| *** david-lyle is now known as david-lyle_afk | 16:37 | |
| david-lyle_afk | #topic Open Discussion | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 16:37 | |
| *** david-lyle_afk is now known as david-lyle | 16:37 | |
| sanjay | hi david | 16:38 |
| * david-lyle notes starting the meeting with afk in your nick is not ideal | 16:38 | |
| david-lyle | sanjay: hello | 16:38 |
| sanjay | regarding bp Add User "Role" field to Update User Form | 16:38 |
| sanjay | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/add-user-role-field | 16:39 |
| sanjay | do you see this as useful feature ? | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | isn't the role expressed in the drop down in that view | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | ? | 16:39 |
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| david-lyle | oh, not the assignment view, but the update user view | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | what's on that view is the default project, not all projects IIRC | 16:41 |
| sanjay | kanchn please explain | 16:41 |
| david-lyle | The default project bit is likely going to go away | 16:41 |
| jpich | Seems a role is only useful in the context of a project, it seems to me that's well covered already by the Projects view | 16:41 |
| kanchan | Hi David | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | once the default project part goes away, the need is eliminated | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | hello | 16:42 |
| kanchan | role will be added in Update user form | 16:42 |
| kanchan | and by default _member_ will be added | 16:43 |
| kanchan | just to maintain the consistency with CreateUserForm | 16:43 |
| sanjay | so what I understand is once default project is gone we don't need to update role here and we can do this from project tab | 16:44 |
| sanjay | right | 16:44 |
| sanjay | ? | 16:44 |
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| ericpeterson | not exactly. default project is one thing, which is largely just confusion | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | was looking at form and code | 16:45 |
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| ericpeterson | you could see a need for select a user and add role assignments to them | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | but that's covered in a different form | 16:45 |
| jpich | can roles be added without a reference to a specific project though? | 16:46 |
| ericpeterson | I could see an argument to make that feature available from either spot, but yes | 16:46 |
| david-lyle | but the update user form as is would not be that location | 16:46 |
| ericpeterson | roles can exist without anything else..... a role assignment is the combination of a user, a role, on a project | 16:46 |
| ericpeterson | role assignments is what makes the roles show up in your token | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | yes you can't grant a role without a project | 16:47 |
| jpich | So are you suggesting adding the whole membership widget to the user form, with the list of the existing projects? | 16:47 |
| jpich | kinda like the reverse of what we have on the projects list, with the list of existing users? | 16:47 |
| ericpeterson | yes, that *could* be something that people might want | 16:48 |
| ericpeterson | not advocating that, but I could see a use case for it | 16:48 |
| sanjay | yes some sort of reverse of what we have on the projects list | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | I could see that use case as well, but that's not what's in the blueprint | 16:48 |
| jpich | Ok, just making sure I understood since it's not about adding a single field anymore | 16:48 |
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| ericpeterson | yep. once again I think I have derailed this train of thought. sorry | 16:49 |
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| david-lyle | So the bp referenced as is should be obsolete, another blueprint to cover this other use case would be appropriate | 16:50 |
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| david-lyle | kanchan: default project is going away due to changes in keystone and more integration with ldap | 16:51 |
| david-lyle | should have led with that :) | 16:51 |
| david-lyle | default === primary | 16:51 |
| kanchan | ok | 16:51 |
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| david-lyle | if default projects were going to still exist, the blueprint would make sense | 16:52 |
| david-lyle | randomly picking a role for the user in the background doesn't make sense | 16:52 |
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| david-lyle | but, let's just remove the Primary Project selection | 16:53 |
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| sanjay | ok | 16:53 |
| kanchan | ok | 16:54 |
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| sanjay | so should be log this as wishlist in launchpad (remove the primary project) | 16:56 |
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| david-lyle | Since the DST change was already confusing... we're also going to look to stagger that meeting times going forward to make sure that folks in Japan, China and Australia can attend | 16:57 |
| david-lyle | There will be a survey on times coming up | 16:57 |
| jpich | See the thread at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/050095.html | 16:57 |
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| jpich | Alternate meeting times to include more people sounds great to me! | 16:58 |
| * david-lyle didn't check openstack-dev before meeting | 16:58 | |
| jpich | No doodles yet, but disagreements already. Finding the new time(s) should be fun ;) | 16:58 |
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| david-lyle | always is | 16:58 |
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| david-lyle | no two times will work perfectly for anyone, so be flexible people :) | 16:59 |
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| david-lyle | sanjay: not sure it's wishlist, but a bug | 16:59 |
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| david-lyle | primary project has never really worked | 17:00 |
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| david-lyle | times up | 17:00 |
| david-lyle | Thanks everyone, have a great week! | 17:00 |
| akrivoka | thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| akrivoka | \o | 17:00 |
| *** david-lyle is now known as david-lyle_afk | 17:00 | |
| david-lyle_afk | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 11 17:00:36 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-11-11-16.05.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-11-11-16.05.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-11-11-16.05.log.html | 17:00 |
| *** david-lyle_afk is now known as david-lyle | 17:00 | |
| arosen | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 11 17:00:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is arosen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:00 |
| arosen | Hi, pballand and tim are out today so I'm going to be running todays IRC meeting. | 17:01 |
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| * arosen FYI: I'm talking this meeting from the train so I might get disconnected a few times :/ | 17:01 | |
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| arosen | Hope everyone had a good time at the sumit and a good trip back home. | 17:01 |
| jasonsb | hello sir | 17:01 |
| arosen | hi jasonsb | 17:01 |
| jasonsb | just made the flight | 17:01 |
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| arosen | anyone else around yet? | 17:02 |
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| arosen | I think daylights savings time might have thrown a few people off since we're meeting an hour earlier now. | 17:02 |
| jasonsb | did sunny say he was going to join? | 17:02 |
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| arosen | not sure | 17:03 |
| arosen | anyways: Here is todays meeting agenda: | 17:03 |
| arosen | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Congress | 17:03 |
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| arosen | Here's the etherpad from the summit. We had lots of good discussion there | 17:03 |
| arosen | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/par-kilo-congress-design-session | 17:03 |
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| arosen | i guess we can wait a few minutes and see if others join in. | 17:04 |
| arosen | Does anyone have anything they want to discuss at this point or give a status update? | 17:05 |
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| arosen | I guess I can go first :) | 17:06 |
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| jasonsb | the floor is yours | 17:07 |
| arosen | At the sumit the Murano group was pretty interested in integrating with congress so yesterday I spent some time getting murano up and running. | 17:07 |
| arosen | they also have devstack integration simlar to how congress does with devstack so that made it easy to set up | 17:07 |
| arosen | Still in the process of reading though their docs to try and figure out how it use it though. Hopefully I'll figure more things out this week. | 17:07 |
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| arosen | We also merged the oslo.db patches into congress yesterday so congress now has a persistence layer :) | 17:08 |
| jasonsb | congress as a store of murano acl's? | 17:08 |
| arosen | jasonsb: I think the first step would be to implement a datasource driver for murano | 17:08 |
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| arosen | then there was talk of murano consuming the congress api some how to do proactive enforcement. | 17:09 |
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| jasonsb | i like the idea | 17:09 |
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| arosen | I believe the murano team is going to help us out with this integration | 17:10 |
| jasonsb | i wonder if you made congress pluggable then it would be easy sell | 17:10 |
| arosen | jasonsb: me too. it will be existing to see something consume the congress api :) | 17:10 |
| jasonsb | (if congress not installed then the check gets nooped) | 17:10 |
| arosen | jasonsb: I agree. | 17:11 |
| arosen | i think it would be nice if we could provide some easy integration hooks for murano to do their policy checks. I wonder if the datasource driver could expose some additional hooks to make things easier. | 17:12 |
| jasonsb | this is probably naive | 17:12 |
| jasonsb | but its nice to have a use-case which you can kind of fit in your head | 17:13 |
| arosen | currently though I'm just sorting through how their api and murano works. | 17:13 |
| jasonsb | GBP isn't one of those for me | 17:13 |
| jasonsb | or QoS for that matter | 17:13 |
| arosen | jasonsb: do you have any blueprints you're interested in contributing to this release? | 17:13 |
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| jasonsb | I do | 17:14 |
| arosen | jasonsb: do you wanna talk about those now? | 17:14 |
| jasonsb | but i'm currently trying to wrap my head around how it might work | 17:14 |
| jasonsb | I guess UI is integral | 17:15 |
| arosen | what type of thing are you trying to expose? | 17:15 |
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| jasonsb | as well as workflow. in my version of QoS there is interaction with user | 17:15 |
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| arosen | jasonsb: currently there is some horizon integration in the tree in contrib/horizon. the devstack script handles setting that up if you wanna try it out. | 17:15 |
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| arosen | jasonsb: what type of qos? Network? | 17:15 |
| jasonsb | actually, if you are still giving status | 17:16 |
| jasonsb | i'm very curious about ceilometer meeting | 17:16 |
| arosen | nope i'm done. | 17:16 |
| jasonsb | (2pm friday?) | 17:16 |
| arosen | Sorry I'm not sure off hand when it is. | 17:17 |
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| arosen | Some of us did talk to the ceilometer team at the openstack summit and they had some good insight for us. | 17:17 |
| jasonsb | oh, i thought all of you had a meeting with them | 17:17 |
| arosen | ah on friday at the sumit you mean? | 17:17 |
| jasonsb | yes | 17:17 |
| arosen | ah okay :) | 17:17 |
| arosen | cool, so one of the use cases we presented them with was trying to find idle vms that and been idle for the last month | 17:18 |
| arosen | they said unfortunately in the current standing of ceilometer it was really able to provide us they level of historical data currently (or could put would be pretty slow and consume a lot of space on their back end to do it) | 17:18 |
| jasonsb | able or unable? | 17:19 |
| arosen | they said they are much better at providing this type of data for 30 minute periods which most people use for auto scaling. | 17:19 |
| arosen | *unable | 17:19 |
| arosen | also they said that they only persist the data for status only if they have a specific alarm already setup for it | 17:20 |
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| arosen | so i don't think we're able to get historical data unless a meter was configured to save that data i believe. | 17:20 |
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| jasonsb | sounds like a nice value-add | 17:20 |
| arosen | they said they are working on a new backend that's back by swift that should help solve these types of issues. | 17:20 |
| jasonsb | things which congress is interested in get saved | 17:21 |
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| arosen | they also gave us some suggestions on how we could go about implementing this use case using their current implementation of ceilometer | 17:21 |
| arosen | basically having congress poll ceilometer and doing the saving of the data so we could then query over it later. | 17:22 |
| arosen | though I don't think this is really a good solution for us as it will make the datasource driver a lot more complex | 17:22 |
| arosen | and it will also put us in the business of storing this data which i don't think we wnat to do at this point | 17:23 |
| jasonsb | i wonder if you will have to save data for other use cases | 17:23 |
| jasonsb | sounds like compliance history would have to be saved somewhere | 17:23 |
| jasonsb | unless it itself was a ceilometer source | 17:24 |
| arosen | jasonsb: I think we probably will but the ceilometer data seems like an awful large amount of data. | 17:24 |
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| jasonsb | agreed | 17:24 |
| arosen | also the ceilometer team is already working on fixing these issues in ceilometer so i think it might make more sense to just wait in the meantime. | 17:24 |
| arosen | and also help them out as well if we get some spare cycles | 17:24 |
| arosen | it would probably be good for us to be involved there since we'll be consuming their apis and data when they're ready. | 17:25 |
| jasonsb | did you discuss at what rate ceilometer data could be pulled? | 17:26 |
| arosen | jasonsb: did you want to talk about your QoS blueprint? | 17:26 |
| jasonsb | for my QoS use case it might be pretty quick | 17:26 |
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| arosen | jasonsb: i think they said they had alarms which we could leverage to avoid having to do a lot of polling. | 17:26 |
| jasonsb | ok, i'll check into the details | 17:26 |
| jasonsb | sure, I have a couple of questions regarding QoS | 17:26 |
| arosen | jasonsb: the meeting was a lot about describing what congress was and getting large time series of data from cielometer. | 17:27 |
| arosen | we'll definitely want to follow up with them again :) | 17:27 |
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| arosen | shoot | 17:27 |
| jasonsb | So there is a UI component. namely, how does the user specify QoS parameters | 17:27 |
| jasonsb | in my specific case it is storage related #'s | 17:28 |
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| arosen | jasonsb: In datalog that congress uses? | 17:28 |
| arosen | as in as part of the policy? | 17:28 |
| jasonsb | exactly | 17:28 |
| jasonsb | my hope is that it would not be raw datalog | 17:29 |
| jasonsb | but thats just a hope | 17:29 |
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| arosen | jasonsb: to be honest I think Tim is the best person to ask. I believe there is some concept of > <= there. I think i remember seeing some policy that said ceilmeter:statistics(load>1) | 17:29 |
| jasonsb | if i understand congress intent on UI then i'm aligned with that | 17:29 |
| jasonsb | ok, my question is | 17:30 |
| jasonsb | given some datalog snippit which relates to QoS, is it within congress philosophy to allow the enforcement | 17:30 |
| jasonsb | engine to give a thumbs up or thumbs down vote if it will accept? | 17:30 |
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| jasonsb | ie: is a round-trip back to user possible | 17:31 |
| arosen | jasonsb: okay so you're saying will congress expose the functionality to ask if a specific thing is out of policy before it does it? | 17:31 |
| arosen | so the user can ask if this is out of policy? | 17:32 |
| jasonsb | will congress expose functionality which makes sure both user and enforcement agree to the contract before it is set in stone | 17:32 |
| jasonsb | only then does it become policy | 17:32 |
| jasonsb | basically, for QoS, is the user asking something which can physically be done? | 17:32 |
| arosen | jasonsb: i see. This is a good idea though I don't think we've talked much in the past about this type of contract. | 17:32 |
| jasonsb | if yes, then agree to the terms | 17:33 |
| jasonsb | if not then complain | 17:33 |
| jasonsb | it might be more complication than you want | 17:33 |
| jasonsb | but it would be a way for central ISO to delegate some things to department level for instance | 17:33 |
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| jasonsb | so maybe its a useful pattern? | 17:34 |
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| jasonsb | i think this is the only thing which i can foresee needing which congress isn't already going to do (from what i understand) | 17:35 |
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| jasonsb | i can probably get around it by throwing an error of (policy not accepted) | 17:36 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: sorry got disconnected * | 17:36 |
| jasonsb | and let the user fix it until i agree to it | 17:36 |
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| jasonsb | np | 17:36 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: cool, yea i think that works | 17:36 |
| jasonsb | which version? | 17:37 |
| arosen1 | ingeneral i think we'll have to deal with this same type of thing for other sources | 17:37 |
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| jasonsb | or is it the same? | 17:37 |
| arosen1 | sorry i might have missed a messsage what do you mean by which version? | 17:37 |
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| jasonsb | i guess there isn't much difference | 17:38 |
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| jasonsb | version 1: policy engine does not accept policy so user is requested to make changes | 17:38 |
| jasonsb | until policy engine accepts | 17:38 |
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| jasonsb | version 2: user specifies policy which policy engine does not accept | 17:39 |
| jasonsb | policy engine throws an exception which is shown to user and user can fix their parameters | 17:39 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: i see. | 17:40 |
| jasonsb | the only real distinction i am making between the two is in version 1, the policy is not accepted and saved in persistent store until both | 17:40 |
| jasonsb | enforcement and user agree to it | 17:40 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: and by user you more mean the backend system that is doing the enforcement? | 17:41 |
| arosen1 | as in if the enforcement is possible. | 17:41 |
| jasonsb | user is human here | 17:41 |
| jasonsb | (or a proxy for a human) | 17:41 |
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| jasonsb | engine==enforcement | 17:42 |
| jasonsb | sorry for sloppy language | 17:42 |
| arosen1 | so in your example the human would want to accept if they want this policy enforced on them? | 17:42 |
| jasonsb | in my use-case human is driving the policy | 17:43 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: sorry mind giving a quick example of the work flow for this? | 17:43 |
| jasonsb | she is asking for a particular QoS parameter | 17:43 |
| arosen1 | i think i missed a few lines of the chat when i disconnected. | 17:43 |
| jasonsb | those parameters are being imposed on the enforcement | 17:43 |
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| arosen1 | jasonsb: would she be asking congress first or the system that is providing the function that qos is applied to ? | 17:44 |
| jasonsb | user specifies max of 10ms latency for IO | 17:44 |
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| jasonsb | (round trip time) | 17:44 |
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| jasonsb | asking congress first | 17:44 |
| arosen1 | k | 17:44 |
| jasonsb | enforcement gets an up or down vote | 17:45 |
| jasonsb | is it possible to meet 10ms? | 17:45 |
| jasonsb | if yes, then QoS policy is accepted and becomes persistent | 17:45 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: gotcha i see what you're saying. | 17:45 |
| jasonsb | so its policy imposed by user on system | 17:45 |
| jasonsb | not the other way round | 17:45 |
| jasonsb | I think data retention policies would be similar | 17:46 |
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| arosen1 | jasonsb: i see. Hrm this sounds kinda tricky to implement. I guess the thing that congress is talking to would have to expose an api to know what type of quota or guarantees are available to do this though. | 17:46 |
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| arosen1 | i'm wondering how congress is able to learn that 10ms is to low of a number or not. | 17:47 |
| jasonsb | i think congress would call enforcement | 17:47 |
| jasonsb | accept_policy_yes_or_not() | 17:47 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: though congress would only want to accept it if the other back end system can implement this QoS policy right? | 17:48 |
| jasonsb | if yes then save in persistent store | 17:48 |
| jasonsb | yes | 17:48 |
| jasonsb | you could use it to make sure the policy made sense perhaps | 17:48 |
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| jasonsb | and only the enforcement code knew for certain | 17:48 |
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| arosen1 | right -- so that's the part that i'm wondering. How would congress learn this information to do enforcement. | 17:49 |
| arosen1 | the datasource doing QoS would have to expose whats allowed | 17:49 |
| arosen1 | if it does that i think congress should totally do this. | 17:49 |
| jasonsb | i think only enforcement knows | 17:49 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: and by enforcement you mean the thing doing the QoS? or? | 17:49 |
| jasonsb | yes | 17:50 |
| jasonsb | the code which is watching and making adjustments | 17:50 |
| jasonsb | (if necessary) | 17:50 |
| arosen1 | gotcha | 17:50 |
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| jasonsb | in my use-case it plays an active role in making sure system is in compliance | 17:50 |
| arosen1 | do you have a system that exposes QoS that you want to integrate with congress | 17:50 |
| arosen1 | unfortunately neutron doesn't really have one today besides the nsx plugin | 17:51 |
| arosen1 | which just exposes queues which allows you to cap throughput on neutron ports. | 17:51 |
| jasonsb | mine is greenfield | 17:52 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: there has been some work to have a reference qos api in neutron but i don't think it's made much progress | 17:52 |
| jasonsb | so i'm searching for best match for what congress wants to do | 17:52 |
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| jasonsb | maybe this is a way out of difficulty on GBP | 17:53 |
| jasonsb | in GBP meeting there was potential for conflicting policies | 17:53 |
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| jasonsb | maybe with transactions such as this, if all of the policies (expresssed in datalog) pass the conflict test | 17:54 |
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| jasonsb | then they get baked in stone | 17:54 |
| jasonsb | otherwise, round trip to user | 17:54 |
| jasonsb | (or proxy for user) | 17:54 |
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| arosen1 | jasonsb: I think i understand. It's more if you're writing a policy that says , "I only want this deployed if the backend can give me exactly this" | 17:56 |
| jasonsb | yes | 17:56 |
| jasonsb | and also | 17:56 |
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| jasonsb | i only want this deployed if backend parses and agrees that it is sane | 17:57 |
| jasonsb | (no conflicts etc) | 17:57 |
| jasonsb | eventually i think this would end up someplace in a heat stack or something | 17:57 |
| jasonsb | where the heat job would not be able to start if the QoS policy couldn't be met | 17:58 |
| jasonsb | (unless best-effort or something was turned on) | 17:58 |
| jasonsb | the desired result would be hadoop job which completed in predictable amount of time if the job was run | 17:58 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: my thought is that one would make the request to provision some QoS amount then that system would call back to congress to see if this QoS amount was out of policy | 17:59 |
| arosen1 | if the QoS amount couldn't be implemented by that system it would just return an error before calling to congress. | 17:59 |
| arosen1 | This is how heat works today. | 17:59 |
| * glebo sorry I missed today. Failed to alter calendar item to adjust for daylight savings clock change relative to UTC meeting time | 17:59 | |
| arosen1 | if it tries to deploy a template and you don't have enough quota it will fail once it gets an over quota error. | 18:00 |
| arosen1 | glebo: no worries | 18:00 |
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| arosen1 | jasonsb: we sorta of running out of time but I believe i see what you're saying. | 18:00 |
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| * glebo thankful there is irc log ;-) | 18:00 | |
| jasonsb | i didn't quite get your version | 18:00 |
| jasonsb | #congress? | 18:00 |
| arosen1 | i think congress should also have some way to validate policy that is told to it to confirm that it's even a valid policy | 18:01 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: sure | 18:01 |
| arosen1 | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 11 18:01:06 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-11-11-17.00.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-11-11-17.00.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-11-11-17.00.log.html | 18:01 |
| arosen1 | jasonsb: give me 10 min just got off the bus let me get to my desk with some coffee :) | 18:01 |
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| jasonsb | oh sure same here | 18:02 |
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| arosen1 | cool :) | 18:02 |
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