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| salv-orlando | aloha | 15:29 |
|---|---|---|
| mestery | o/ | 15:29 |
| markmcclain | hi | 15:29 |
| amotoki | hi | 15:29 |
| * markmcclain awaits his coffee | 15:29 | |
| mestery | armax: ping | 15:29 |
| armax | mestery: pong | 15:29 |
| * mestery drinks his coffee | 15:29 | |
| mestery | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 15:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 15:30:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 15:30 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:30 |
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| mestery | We have a light agenda today, and I'm going to try to wrap this up in 30 minutes or less. Wish me luck. :) | 15:30 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDrivers Agenda | 15:30 |
| mestery | #topic Discuss Vendor Split BP | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Vendor Split BP (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 15:30 | |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134680/ | 15:31 |
| mestery | Hopefully folks have had a chance to review this. | 15:31 |
| mestery | I'd like to thank armax and marun (along with kevinbenton and dougwig) for their work on this one! | 15:31 |
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| mestery | I think this captures the reasons for the split quite accurately. | 15:32 |
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| armax | mestery: I am incorporating feedback as it comes…I need to look at yesterday’s feedback | 15:32 |
| armax | so expect another patchset by the end of today | 15:32 |
| mestery | #info armax to land another version of the split spec by EOD | 15:33 |
| mestery | Thanks armax. | 15:33 |
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| mestery | armax: Any huge issues which people have brought up so far which seem insurmountable? | 15:33 |
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| salv-orlando | I find the proposal reasonable. We might need to educate contributors a bit when it comes to synchronizing data model changes and library changes, but that’s not going to be impossible. | 15:34 |
| armax | not that I could think of, to be honest | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | I think people have no idea where their library code should live | 15:34 |
| armax | but danger is always lurking behind the corner :) | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | that’s another thing that can be easily solved | 15:34 |
| armax | salv-orlando: that’s the beuty of the approach | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | I have two questions for us however | 15:34 |
| armax | salv-orlando: it does not matter | 15:34 |
| mestery | I also think we'll need to work hard to evangelize this and make sure people know the deadlines, how to refactor their plugin/driver, etc. | 15:35 |
| armax | salv-orlando: it’s whatever you want it to lieve | 15:35 |
| armax | *live | 15:35 |
| salv-orlando | armax: “beauty” is probably a word I would not use in any context where you’re compromising | 15:35 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: would it make sense to post those questions on the spec? it’s easier to track | 15:35 |
| armax | salv-orlando: meh | 15:35 |
| salv-orlando | I think someboduy did already | 15:35 |
| salv-orlando | so the question for us are... | 15:35 |
| salv-orlando | 1) when it comes to building rpms and debs, shall the plugin maintainers work with distros on their own? | 15:36 |
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| markmcclain | that is going to be a big concern for some smaller vendors | 15:36 |
| salv-orlando | I mean not for building the rpms, but for having them available in a repo | 15:36 |
| markmcclain | they get visibility by being in the tree | 15:36 |
| armax | salv-orlando, markmcclain: so long that the source code is reachable | 15:37 |
| armax | the distro will have not difficulty of packaging the code | 15:37 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 15:37 |
| markmcclain | armax: it is not that the distro will have challenges packaging | 15:37 |
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| salv-orlando | yeah might be… there will be some hiccups and headaches at the beginning. I think it’s a process that will smooth out over time. | 15:37 |
| markmcclain | it is whether they'll do it in the first place | 15:38 |
| armax | markmcclain, salv-orlando: I want to stress the fact that packaging is only the first step into getting your hands on any solutioin | 15:38 |
| ajo | if vendor (tagged) git's / release tarballs are available then it should be easy to package them | 15:38 |
| ajo | (hi ;D) | 15:38 |
| armax | markmcclain, salv-orlando but there’s lot more | 15:38 |
| amotoki | agree. To allow distros to package plugins, we (vendors and neturon team) need to clarify version dependencies. | 15:38 |
| armax | so frankly I am not too worried | 15:38 |
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| amotoki | but I think it is not a big problem and during clarifying the process it will be addressed. | 15:39 |
| salv-orlando | ok if you have no reason to be worried I have no reason as well. | 15:39 |
| mestery | markmcclain: The visibility thing can be handled by us publicizing the places where the drivers go. That part is an education thing as much as a visibility thing. Maybe I'm simplifying it though. :) | 15:39 |
| markmcclain | yeah.. just want to make sure that is part of the solution | 15:39 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I am just saying that even if the source is packaged today, it does not mean it’s usable | 15:39 |
| armax | tested or validated on any distro | 15:39 |
| markmcclain | also notice that we don't require the drivers to be apache2 license compatible | 15:39 |
| armax | distros need a relationship with the vendor | 15:39 |
| armax | to go beyond just packaging | 15:40 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Can we enforce that if htey are out of tree (licenses)? The parts which live in neutron need to be apache2 though. | 15:40 |
| mestery | But since the code is imported, do we need to enforce apache2? | 15:40 |
| armax | mestery: I wouldn’t think so | 15:40 |
| markmcclain | line 255 would require it | 15:40 |
| salv-orlando | I think plugin maintainers (they’re not only “vendors”) will need to learn how to manage the lifecycle of a package | 15:41 |
| * mestery looks | 15:41 | |
| armax | for the vendor library, I mean | 15:41 |
| armax | the vendor integration park, being in three is apache2 | 15:41 |
| armax | *part | 15:41 |
| * salv-orlando will probably look for somebody to this do for me, as it’s not really one of things I want to learn | 15:41 | |
| mestery | markmcclain: Yeah, so parts of it are apache2, we should add that in the spec. | 15:41 |
| * armax thinks about greenery and the beauty of nature | 15:41 | |
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| * mestery thinks about coffee | 15:42 | |
| markmcclain | the shim in the tree is obviously apache2, but any deps for the shim must be compatible since that is a dependency | 15:42 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Makes sense | 15:42 |
| salv-orlando | armax: greenery like you’re rolling some weed? | 15:42 |
| markmcclain | it's the battle we fight w/ global requirements | 15:42 |
| mestery | lol | 15:42 |
| armax | markmcclain: same considerations apply to any library we use in openstack | 15:42 |
| markmcclain | correct, but we should restate is here | 15:42 |
| armax | markmcclain: but I’ll make the point, it seemed obvious but being explicit does not hurt | 15:42 |
| mestery | armax: Agreed, but maybe we should call it out in this spec explicitly. | 15:42 |
| armax | yeah | 15:43 |
| armax | fair | 15:43 |
| mestery | Excellent, agreement! :) | 15:43 |
| * mestery thinks it's the greenery ;) | 15:43 | |
| anteaya | explict about licencing +1 | 15:43 |
| markmcclain | I do think that anyone that gets a shim must have the source posted somewhere open | 15:43 |
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| ajo | +1 | 15:43 |
| mestery | markmcclain: I'm somewhat split on that one, I can see arguments both ways, so I'm meh either way. :) | 15:44 |
| armax | markmcclain: I see no reason why it shouldn't | 15:44 |
| mestery | But it should be documented (if it's not) on what we agree on. | 15:44 |
| markmcclain | well we're still giving them a hook | 15:44 |
| markmcclain | they have to trade something and having code locked in corporate repo is bad | 15:44 |
| * mestery is good with requiring source | 15:44 | |
| armax | markmcclain: but ultimately it’s a choice we have no control of | 15:44 |
| markmcclain | we do have control on the shim | 15:44 |
| mestery | Yes, we can control it by landing hteir shim | 15:44 |
| mestery | or not landing it | 15:44 |
| markmcclain | right | 15:45 |
| armax | markmcclain: I’ll be more explciit that accessibility to the source is an important criterion for assessing how friendly a vendor is | 15:45 |
| markmcclain | ideally I'd like that code to exist in stackforge and follow our community model | 15:45 |
| armax | friendly for lack of better word | 15:45 |
| armax | so don’t quote me on that | 15:45 |
| armax | please | 15:45 |
| armax | :) | 15:45 |
| salv-orlando | folks, I think the idea of having the shim in neutron and the plugin library private is just demoniac | 15:45 |
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| salv-orlando | diabolic | 15:45 |
| mestery | stackforge is ideal, but if they have it on github, that is ok as well | 15:46 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: someone will try it | 15:46 |
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| salv-orlando | markmcclain: and we’ll go medieval on them ;) | 15:46 |
| anteaya | someone always tries something | 15:46 |
| anteaya | salv-orlando: that is tiring | 15:46 |
| anteaya | best to just say no when it happens | 15:46 |
| armax | markmcclain, salv-orlando: I would cross that bridge when we get to it | 15:46 |
| armax | honestly | 15:46 |
| mestery | I think explicitely putting it in the spec makes it clear, so lets just put it in there | 15:47 |
| mestery | And face the pushback early rather than later | 15:47 |
| armax | mestery: sure | 15:47 |
| mestery | Cool | 15:47 |
| mestery | Thanks armax | 15:47 |
| amotoki | Is a requirement for shim plugin openness of their library ? | 15:47 |
| amotoki | or is it just a suggestion? | 15:47 |
| mestery | amotoki: I think we're saying make it a requirement | 15:47 |
| armax | I think it’s already expressed int he spec | 15:47 |
| markmcclain | I think requirement | 15:47 |
| armax | but I’ll build a stronger case for it | 15:47 |
| mestery | armax: Cool | 15:47 |
| amotoki | mestery: agree | 15:47 |
| salv-orlando | I think the requirement made here is that you don’t import a package which is not available in the open | 15:47 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: no | 15:48 |
| salv-orlando | and frankly I think you need that for unit test don’t you? | 15:48 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: +1 | 15:48 |
| salv-orlando | armax: you’re the voice of no... | 15:48 |
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| salv-orlando | what is the requirment then? | 15:48 |
| armax | sorry I mean, the package must be accessible somewhere | 15:48 |
| salv-orlando | anyway, this is only my first question… I also have a 2nd one ;) | 15:49 |
| mestery | lol | 15:49 |
| armax | so, yes :) | 15:49 |
| salv-orlando | accessible like source code available in the open (where in the open == public) | 15:49 |
| salv-orlando | can I go with the 2nd question? | 15:49 |
| armax | you guys are confusing me…right that’s what the spec states right now | 15:49 |
| armax | salv-orlando: but it does not make it a strong requirement for acceptance of the shim in the tree | 15:49 |
| markmcclain | armax: I think the spec suggests but does not mandate | 15:49 |
| armax | markmcclain: correct | 15:50 |
| markmcclain | I think a 'shall … ' is in order here | 15:50 |
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| armax | so are we saying that the code must rather than shoud? | 15:50 |
| mestery | We're mandating I think, right? | 15:50 |
| armax | should? | 15:50 |
| armax | mestery: ok | 15:50 |
| anteaya | will | 15:50 |
| armax | let’s go with that | 15:50 |
| markmcclain | must/shall rather may/should | 15:50 |
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| mestery | #info Update the spec to indicate any shim plugins/drivers in the tree require their out-of-tree code to be open source on something like stackforge or github | 15:51 |
| salv-orlando | is this sorted then? | 15:51 |
| armax | markmcclain: ok | 15:51 |
| armax | salv-orlando: yes | 15:51 |
| markmcclain | what was Salv's question? | 15:51 |
| salv-orlando | the second question is: how shimmy should the shim be? | 15:51 |
| armax | salv-orlando: thou shan't make the code private | 15:51 |
| armax | salv-orlando: does that work? | 15:52 |
| armax | :) | 15:52 |
| mestery | armax: lol | 15:52 |
| salv-orlando | you went from legalese to biblical | 15:52 |
| markmcclain | haha | 15:52 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I know, right? | 15:52 |
| armax | salv-orlando: now you’re becoming even more pedantic than what you already are | 15:52 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: about the shimminess | 15:53 |
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| * armax thinks it’s not even a word | 15:53 | |
| markmcclain | I think the thinkess of the shim is dependent on the plugin refactor | 15:53 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I think that the shimmier it is the better | 15:53 |
| markmcclain | if we do our job right we should be able to make it really thin | 15:53 |
| mestery | The thinner the better IMHO | 15:53 |
| armax | salv-orlando: hopefully some initial effort will pave the way for ‘coding by example’ | 15:53 |
| mestery | dougwig had an example of a LBaaS V2 driver which was super shimmy | 15:54 |
| salv-orlando | should we evaluate on a case by case basis? What if some plugin already in trunk offers a diet plan in say two or three phases? | 15:54 |
| markmcclain | in many ways the contrail plugin is closer to want we eventually want | 15:54 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: I think a phased approach should be allowed | 15:54 |
| mestery | The spec makes it clear the diet has to happen during the kilo cycle. | 15:54 |
| mestery | Do we want to change that? | 15:54 |
| markmcclain | we do have to protect the operators | 15:54 |
| mestery | It needs an end date. | 15:54 |
| mestery | Or else some will drag it out to the bitter end. | 15:54 |
| salv-orlando | ok | 15:54 |
| salv-orlando | the other point about the contrail plugin | 15:55 |
| markmcclain | it will always drag out to the bitter end :) | 15:55 |
| salv-orlando | this means worst case one could do a proxy to a plugin living somewhere else? | 15:55 |
| mestery | lol | 15:55 |
| armax | markmcclain: in the spec I set a date, which is suggested to be assessed at every mileston | 15:55 |
| armax | e | 15:55 |
| armax | to see whether we are on track with the plan | 15:55 |
| armax | so there’s some wiggle room | 15:55 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: yes.. a the shim could be proxy | 15:55 |
| salv-orlando | I estimate 4 weeks full time for instance on NSX plugin | 15:55 |
| salv-orlando | which considering how much time I can spend on that means 4 months | 15:56 |
| armax | but we need to be clear that procrastination is not an option | 15:56 |
| salv-orlando | and I think others will be in the same situation | 15:56 |
| markmcclain | the thing to remember is I had a few folks say that 6mos was not enough time to enable IPv6 | 15:56 |
| mestery | And so we double that for others, meaning 8 weeks for non salv-orlando maintainers ;) | 15:56 |
| amotoki | salv-orlando: Does 4 weeks include CI or other setups? | 15:56 |
| salv-orlando | frankly in my case I’d rather accept deprecation that ask for an extension | 15:56 |
| markmcclain | and that spec has been around 20 yrs :p | 15:56 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Right, thus multi-cycle is needed | 15:56 |
| armax | if no tangible progress is observed I think we should reserve the right to judge whether the deprecation appleis or not | 15:56 |
| salv-orlando | 4 weeks code only | 15:56 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 15:56 |
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| amotoki | salv-orlando: I feel the similar too | 15:57 |
| salv-orlando | ok so we will judge on a case by case basis | 15:57 |
| armax | salv-orlando: you’d do anything to save you from working | 15:57 |
| armax | :) | 15:57 |
| mestery | Wow, we made it through salv-orlando's questions in < 30 minutes! :) | 15:57 |
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| armax | mestery: yay | 15:57 |
| salv-orlando | it’s not a case if my job title is “distinguished procrastinator" | 15:57 |
| armax | salv-orlando: oh right, I forgot | 15:57 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I shan’t forget that, ever | 15:58 |
| mestery | Anything else then? | 15:58 |
| anteaya | armax: what is your benchmark for "tangilbe progress"? | 15:58 |
| mestery | Otherwise, armax will update the spec | 15:58 |
| mestery | And we'll review again. | 15:58 |
| amotoki | i have two questions: destiny of linux bridge driver, and common driver code in ML2 stuff. | 15:58 |
| salv-orlando | I think I will soon get the Homer Simpson fellowship | 15:58 |
| armax | anteaya: some progress on the plan outlined on the work item section | 15:58 |
| armax | amotoki: that was raised on the spec, and it’s been addressed | 15:58 |
| amotoki | armax: will check | 15:59 |
| anteaya | okay, this will be challenging to assess, since your definition and someone else's will differ | 15:59 |
| armax | amotoki: let me know if that answer your concerns | 15:59 |
| salv-orlando | anteaya: it’s a situation where it’s really hard to define objective metrics inmho | 15:59 |
| armax | otherwsie we’ll take it offline | 15:59 |
| markmcclain | armax: I do think we need a work item for a realistic roadmap for vendors to follow | 15:59 |
| armax | anteaya: no, if the plan is clear and well detailed | 15:59 |
| armax | imo | 15:59 |
| anteaya | salv-orlando: oh I agree, you can avoid the fight, you can just define the terms | 15:59 |
| anteaya | can't | 15:59 |
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| markmcclain | one of the current problems is that we don't provide a happy path for vendors | 15:59 |
| markmcclain | which leads to the poor impls | 15:59 |
| mestery | markmcclain: It needs to be laid out in detail for them to follow, agreed. | 16:00 |
| armax | I mean, if no commits have been posted to refactor the code according the proposed structure | 16:00 |
| anteaya | commits, there is a metric | 16:00 |
| anteaya | merged commits? | 16:00 |
| armax | it’s pretty obvious to me that no tangible procgress has been made | 16:00 |
| armax | :) | 16:00 |
| mestery | Well, and if no one has reached out asking questions, etc. | 16:00 |
| mestery | that's another sign | 16:00 |
| anteaya | questions, another metric | 16:00 |
| mestery | anteaya: Right. | 16:01 |
| anteaya | great, two so far, thanks | 16:01 |
| armax | ok I’ll cover this area a bit more | 16:01 |
| mestery | honestly, these are metrics we should already have to some extent, we can collect from prior releases to get a feel for what to expect. | 16:01 |
| mestery | Spoiler: It won't be pretty in some cases. | 16:01 |
| salv-orlando | markmcclain: how can we sprinke happiness on vendors? | 16:01 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 16:02 |
| salv-orlando | I’m a rather grumpy one myself | 16:02 |
| anteaya | get them off windows | 16:02 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: donuts | 16:02 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: kittens and puppies | 16:02 |
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| salv-orlando | ok, so for every plugin which is moved out into a library I’ll donate $100 to an animal shelter. does that work? | 16:03 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 16:03 |
| mestery | rofl | 16:03 |
| markmcclain | haha | 16:03 |
| salv-orlando | and mestery will send a box of 12 donuts - for each developer | 16:03 |
| armax | salv-orlando: okay let me set up a charity about this | 16:03 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I’ll send you the bank coordinates | 16:03 |
| anteaya | I can add a link to a linux distro download of choice | 16:03 |
| mestery | With sprinkles. Sprinkles make everything better. | 16:03 |
| ajo | :) | 16:04 |
| salv-orlando | seriously. We probably want to have an “ideal story” - both for maintainters of plugin already in trunk and for maintainers of plugins not yet in trunk | 16:04 |
| markmcclain | right | 16:04 |
| armax | ideal being? | 16:04 |
| markmcclain | we need a pioneer and extensively doc what we're doing | 16:04 |
| armax | like you want to write a novel or something? | 16:05 |
| mestery | Not only that, but I think we need to make ourselves extra available to help people, on IRC, ML, meetings, etc. | 16:05 |
| markmcclain | armax: more of a checklist that jr dev could follow of steps | 16:05 |
| armax | markmcclain: oh right, it looks like kevinbenton should help us spearhead the effort | 16:05 |
| mestery | In other words, go out of our way to make this process smooth for people. | 16:05 |
| anteaya | I'm not sure how much more extra people have in them | 16:05 |
| anteaya | I know I'm all used up | 16:05 |
| mestery | We'll spread the extra around and see how much is left in our collective tanks | 16:06 |
| armax | markmcclain: hopefully maintainers of vendor code are somewhat more than jr devs | 16:06 |
| anteaya | great, I hope someone has some | 16:06 |
| mestery | Since we're moving people out of tree, we need to accomdate them during hte process | 16:06 |
| salv-orlando | armax: I might become a blogger! That would be the apotheosis of the procrastinator | 16:06 |
| markmcclain | armax: experience says otherwise | 16:06 |
| armax | otherwise we’d be in trouble with our without this proposal | 16:06 |
| anteaya | armax: the ci operators aren't | 16:06 |
| * mestery shudders at the ci operators | 16:06 | |
| mestery | *though of the ci operators | 16:07 |
| mestery | *thought | 16:07 |
| * mestery drinks more coffee | 16:07 | |
| anteaya | sorry about that | 16:07 |
| armax | anteaya: operators should not be affected by this effort at all | 16:07 |
| anteaya | didn't meant to invoke that | 16:07 |
| armax | if they did then we’d failed miserably | 16:07 |
| anteaya | armax: shouldn't and are, yet to be seen | 16:07 |
| salv-orlando | and honestly there are a lot of “junior” devs which are way better than me. So it’s a matter of how flexible and adaptable you are, not experience | 16:07 |
| armax | anteaya: right, but we’re aware that disruption for operator is not an option | 16:07 |
| anteaya | for their ci operations? | 16:08 |
| anteaya | they will have to change their pointers for git clones at teh very least | 16:08 |
| markmcclain | if they have devstack support | 16:08 |
| anteaya | some having difficulty with that | 16:08 |
| mestery | Folks, I think we're digressing a bit here. | 16:08 |
| anteaya | but don't mean to derail | 16:08 |
| anteaya | sorry | 16:08 |
| mestery | And we're 8 minutes over my ending time :) | 16:08 |
| armax | anteaya: if it was just that I’d sign up for that | 16:08 |
| mestery | Or proposed ending time :) | 16:08 |
| mestery | Any other issues with the BP to bring up now? | 16:09 |
| anteaya | armax: I'd welcome you | 16:09 |
| mestery | Or should we let armax roll another version and then re-review that one? | 16:09 |
| markmcclain | I do have a questions on security handling, but I'll post those to the spec | 16:09 |
| mestery | markmcclain: Cool | 16:09 |
| armax | markmcclain: we covered that part | 16:09 |
| mestery | I want to think through stable updates, specifically Juno/Kilo backports, etc. | 16:09 |
| armax | markmcclain: let us know if it’s too sparse for you | 16:09 |
| salv-orlando | since it’s been a quiet meeting so far | 16:09 |
| markmcclain | right, but I have questions about what's covered | 16:09 |
| salv-orlando | let me try and drop a bombshell | 16:09 |
| * mestery gets his kevlar on | 16:10 | |
| salv-orlando | ML2 | 16:10 |
| mestery | BOOM! | 16:10 |
| armax | salv-orlando: drop away | 16:10 |
| amotoki | devstack integration is one of questions. in-tree devstack support is acceptable after splitting out? this is beyond the spec, but we need to clarify. | 16:10 |
| armax | salv-orlando: is there anything that wasn’t covered in the spec that deserve the bomb shelling? | 16:10 |
| salv-orlando | I just did. What do we do with it? I think it’s unfair to give it special treatment and leave it in the tree | 16:10 |
| markmcclain | salv-orlando: we need a gating reference implementation | 16:10 |
| armax | salv-orlando: that was documented | 16:11 |
| armax | not sure what else to add to that | 16:11 |
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| salv-orlando | you are speaking legales again. | 16:11 |
| salv-orlando | I know it’s documented. I think it’s unfair. | 16:11 |
| armax | amotoki: devstack integration has been documented | 16:11 |
| armax | salv-orlando: unfair on what grounds? | 16:11 |
| mestery | I think the gating requirement is what's keeping it there | 16:11 |
| salv-orlando | on the ground that we grant ML2 and all its drivers the right of staying in the tree | 16:11 |
| salv-orlando | I am not bothered | 16:11 |
| armax | salv-orlando: you open source nsx and we’d be happy to switch | 16:11 |
| mestery | Wait, all the ML2 drivers are staying in tree? | 16:11 |
| mestery | I missed that part | 16:12 |
| mestery | I thought only the OVS one was staying in-tree (for now)? | 16:12 |
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| * mestery has to re-read that part | 16:12 | |
| amotoki | armax: the speci mentions just the existing devstack support. my point is future plan (new vendor support). | 16:12 |
| salv-orlando | armax: you just said somethign rather non intelligent | 16:12 |
| salv-orlando | ml2 has plenty of drivers for proprietary 3rd parties | 16:12 |
| armax | salv-orlando: sometimes I have brainfarts too | 16:12 |
| armax | salv-orlando: those will get slimmed down too | 16:12 |
| armax | salv-orlando: as we proposed | 16:13 |
| salv-orlando | what about the comment we received that you can’t split ml2 from its drivers because they work so nicely together? | 16:13 |
| markmcclain | ok.. linuxbridge has to stay in w/OVS | 16:13 |
| armax | markmcclain: then we should start gating on it | 16:13 |
| markmcclain | there is a group of folks who don't want OVS | 16:13 |
| markmcclain | armax: yes we should | 16:13 |
| armax | ok | 16:13 |
| armax | markmcclain: until then we can’t worry bout LB, IMO | 16:14 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I don’t follow | 16:14 |
| mestery | #info To keep LB in-tree we need to start gating on it. | 16:14 |
| markmcclain | folks deploy it into production | 16:14 |
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| markmcclain | so we should be gating on it | 16:14 |
| salv-orlando | armax: that was live at the summit - I think it was bob? | 16:14 |
| armax | and perhaps we’d need to get LB to parity, like DVR perhaps? | 16:14 |
| markmcclain | armax: ++ | 16:15 |
| armax | salv-orlando: we’re not advocating to splitting drivers right now | 16:15 |
| armax | we’re advocating to slim vendor code down | 16:15 |
| salv-orlando | I thought that meant removing drivers | 16:15 |
| armax | salv-orlando: we’d need to reassess what makes sense when some progress has been done | 16:15 |
| armax | salv-orlando: no it doesn’t | 16:15 |
| salv-orlando | armax: then until further notice ML2 is not affected by this blueprint at all. | 16:16 |
| armax | the same way we’re not proposing to remove vendor plugins | 16:16 |
| mestery | This is the first step in that direction, right armax? | 16:16 |
| mestery | OR it coudl be I guess | 16:16 |
| * markmcclain wonders if this will have unintended effect of vendors going ML2 to stay in tree | 16:16 | |
| mestery | Yikes | 16:17 |
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| amotoki | theoretically *new* ml2 drivers can be completely out of tree. | 16:17 |
| armax | guys, no vendor gets out of the tree with this proposal | 16:17 |
| armax | neither ml2 driversnor core plguins | 16:17 |
| amotoki | but some drivers already have db models in neutron tree :-( | 16:17 |
| armax | I am amazed as you are still confused about this | 16:17 |
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| armax | where have we gone wrong? | 16:18 |
| salv-orlando | I think armax’s point is that the plugins and the driver stays but they are going on a diet | 16:18 |
| salv-orlando | now he’s defined a 1,200 kcal/day diet for plugins | 16:18 |
| salv-orlando | but this diet does not apply to ML2, because it’s not a plugin like the others | 16:18 |
| amotoki | armax: yes. even after the split, we still have thin drivers/plugin in the tree.. | 16:18 |
| salv-orlando | let’s not forget all the virtues of ML2 | 16:18 |
| armax | salv-orlando: it does apply across the boar | 16:19 |
| armax | d | 16:19 |
| salv-orlando | bu armax will then define a plan also for putting ML2 drivers on a diet, right? | 16:19 |
| mestery | The spec references ML2 and monolithic plugins | 16:19 |
| armax | but if some ml2 drivers are already skinny, then there’s nothing that can be done | 16:19 |
| armax | is there? | 16:19 |
| salv-orlando | ok so ML2 will slim down too? | 16:19 |
| markmcclain | in theory ML2 drivers should be small :) | 16:19 |
| armax | that’s what the spec state | 16:19 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Yes, that was my reading of the spec | 16:19 |
| salv-orlando | I thought it was excluded because of co-gating requiremtns? | 16:19 |
| armax | salv-orlando: no | 16:20 |
| salv-orlando | so the one who’s confused is me | 16:20 |
| salv-orlando | who said co-gating and reference implementaiton? | 16:20 |
| salv-orlando | was it markmcclain | 16:20 |
| armax | right | 16:20 |
| armax | and that’s true but one of the items of the spec is that even the reference implemetnation will go through the same refactoring exercise | 16:20 |
| armax | even though there’s no point of moving the code elsewhere, at least for the time being | 16:21 |
| armax | this is black and white on the spec | 16:21 |
| mestery | FYI: 8 minutes left | 16:22 |
| amotoki | as a conclusion, does the split out affect ml2 drivers? | 16:22 |
| armax | I’ll revise the spec one more time to make sure there’s no room for confusion | 16:22 |
| markmcclain | amotoki: I think the we have to a clear plan for ml2 | 16:22 |
| salv-orlando | I have a feeling the “shimming down” for ML2 will not be as obvious as the one for monolithic plugins | 16:23 |
| salv-orlando | but this is just a feeling. You’ll buy me a beer in vancouver if it turns out I was right | 16:23 |
| armax | there’s a point about this on the spec I am trying to find the line no :) | 16:23 |
| mestery | Note, the APIC ML2 driver went through a "thinning down" at the end of Juno already, that could be an example for folks. | 16:23 |
| * mestery can't believe he just said use the APIC driver as an example for folks. | 16:23 | |
| markmcclain | yeah that might be harder, but then again maybe designing better interface contracts would slim it down | 16:23 |
| armax | but anyhow I’ll clear this up, to make it salv-orlando proof | 16:23 |
| mestery | Anyways, at this point, lets let armax spin a new version and continue comments there. | 16:24 |
| mestery | And if there's nothing else right now, shall we close this jolly affair? | 16:24 |
| mestery | :) | 16:24 |
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| armax | line 124 btw | 16:25 |
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| armax | The monolithic plugins and ML2 drivers become integration-only to code that lives outside the tree; | 16:25 |
| armax | just saying | 16:25 |
| mestery | Thanks armax, and thanks to everyone, I think this was a productive meeting (at least for me). ;) | 16:25 |
| mestery | Looking forward to the new spec rev armax ;) | 16:26 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:26 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 16:26:21 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2014/neutron_drivers.2014-11-19-15.30.html | 16:26 |
| salv-orlando | can vendor still run all their unit tests? | 16:26 |
| salv-orlando | noooo | 16:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2014/neutron_drivers.2014-11-19-15.30.txt | 16:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2014/neutron_drivers.2014-11-19-15.30.log.html | 16:26 |
| salv-orlando | come back | 16:26 |
| mestery | :( | 16:26 |
| salv-orlando | I want to irritate armax further? | 16:26 |
| salv-orlando | !!!1 | 16:26 |
| openstack | salv-orlando: Error: "!!1" is not a valid command. | 16:26 |
| salv-orlando | jk | 16:26 |
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| yamamoto | it seems like a bad idea to have this discussion simultaneously with ml2 subteam meeting | 16:26 |
| armax | salv-orlando: fire away? | 16:26 |
| salv-orlando | openstack go home you’re drunk | 16:26 |
| ajo | :D | 16:27 |
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| mestery | lol | 16:27 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: not sure I follow, but feel free to harass me privately :) | 16:27 |
| salv-orlando | armax I’ll bring the comment on the spec. But basically I want to know if all the unit tests we ran today for each vendor should still run in the main py-{26|27} jobs | 16:27 |
| armax | no, they won’t | 16:28 |
| ajo | salv-orlando I undertood those wouldn't | 16:28 |
| armax | it’s black and white on the spec | 16:28 |
| armax | line 220 | 16:28 |
| ajo | armax, that was left to vendor CI, right? | 16:28 |
| armax | yes…I gotta go now | 16:28 |
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| ajo | cu! ;) | 16:28 |
| amotoki | ajo: or they can still use neutron core test framework for their own plugin/driver. | 16:29 |
| armax | salv-orlando: re-read the spec, because clearly you’ve forgotten it already | 16:29 |
| ajo | amotoki, of course | 16:29 |
| ajo | that was the idea, as far as I uderstood | 16:29 |
| salv-orlando | armax: come on you know I have not even read that | 16:29 |
| ajo | lol :) | 16:29 |
| armax | salv-orlando: ah | 16:29 |
| salv-orlando | otherwise I would not be a distinguished procrastinator | 16:29 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I shan’t forget that salv-orlando is a professional procrastinator | 16:29 |
| ajo | salv-orlando: true | 16:29 |
| salv-orlando | distinguished | 16:29 |
| armax | salv-orlando: I keep forgetting that | 16:29 |
| armax | salv-orlando: meh | 16:30 |
| armax | really gotta step away now | 16:30 |
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| amotoki | thnx all! moving to ml2 meeting... | 16:32 |
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| alaski | #startmeeting nova-cells | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 17:00:25 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alaski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-cells)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_cells' | 17:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 17:00 |
| leifz | :-) | 17:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 17:00 |
| mriedem | hi | 17:00 |
| alaski | woo | 17:00 |
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| alaski | welcome everyone to the first meeting on this new effort | 17:01 |
| edleafe | o/ | 17:01 |
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| dheeraj-gupta-4 | hi | 17:01 |
| alaski | I have a simple agenda setup at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaCellsv2#Agenda | 17:01 |
| gilliard | \o | 17:01 |
| VineetMenon_ | \m/ | 17:01 |
| belmoreira | hi | 17:01 |
| alaski | and feel free to add to that for any particular week | 17:01 |
| alaski | #topic Cells manifesto | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cells manifesto (Meeting topic: nova-cells)" | 17:02 | |
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| alaski | So dansmith had the idea that some sort of manifesto would be useful | 17:02 |
| bauzas | +1 | 17:02 |
| dansmith | yeah, I was just thinking a summary of where we see this going | 17:02 |
| dansmith | an overview of the plan, what things will look like when it's "done" and maybe a few first steps | 17:03 |
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| bauzas | I like the idea here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133691/ | 17:03 |
| alaski | I think that's a very useful idea | 17:03 |
| dansmith | and of course, a little text relating this to current cells to make it clear that we're not really changing the high-level organization very much | 17:03 |
| bauzas | for upgrades | 17:03 |
| dansmith | I'm happy to help with that, or start it, etc | 17:03 |
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| leifz | It may be worth a paragraph on different issues we run into when add features that could affect cells? | 17:04 |
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| alaski | dansmith: cool. if you want to start it that would be great | 17:04 |
| dansmith | leifz: maybe, I think the alternate organization makes that much less of a problem | 17:04 |
| VineetMenon_ | dansmith: functioanlly much will not change.. but implementation wise, lots gonna change, right | 17:04 |
| alaski | I come from a place of familiarity with cells, so I may make a lot of assumptions as I go | 17:04 |
| dansmith | leifz: that's all in my mine of course, but.. | 17:04 |
| dansmith | alaski: sure I can start it | 17:04 |
| dansmith | VineetMenon_: sure, a lot needs changing, but not as much as if we were doing something totally wildly different, I think | 17:05 |
| alaski | where should this live? | 17:05 |
| bauzas | dansmith: what kind of deliverable do you plan ? | 17:05 |
| VineetMenon_ | dansmith: and the DAG organization of cell won't be any more.. it will be a two level tree | 17:05 |
| mriedem | alaski: devref? | 17:05 |
| alaski | we could put it into a spec for review, but it's not really a spec in the traditional sense | 17:05 |
| bauzas | dansmith: I like the idea of a rst file | 17:06 |
| dansmith | alaski: I was thinking a blog post would be a good first thing | 17:06 |
| bauzas | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133691/ | 17:06 |
| dansmith | VineetMenon_: yep | 17:06 |
| alaski | dansmith: would you want to put it out for feedback first? | 17:06 |
| mriedem | http://www.openstack.org/blog/ ? | 17:06 |
| belmoreira | i think is also important to take on board all the deployments that at the moment don't care about cells | 17:06 |
| belmoreira | because thay will be affected as well | 17:07 |
| dansmith | alaski: yeah, so maybe in a etherpad to start, then a post that can show up on the planet for wider audience | 17:07 |
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| dansmith | an rst in tree is good, but I think we might want to make some progress before we do that | 17:07 |
| mriedem | +1 | 17:07 |
| bauzas | ack | 17:07 |
| VineetMenon_ | alaski: then why not a typical BP? | 17:07 |
| alaski | dansmith: +1 | 17:07 |
| mriedem | this isn't a bp | 17:07 |
| dansmith | belmoreira: the goal here is that those deployments shouldn't really notice this change if they don't want to | 17:07 |
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| bauzas | VineetMenon_: that's wider than just a specification | 17:07 |
| alaski | VineetMenon_: this is more high level than a blueprint, as it's not describing specific work to be done | 17:08 |
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| mriedem | it's like an SLD right? | 17:08 |
| dansmith | right, which is why I called it a manifesto | 17:08 |
| dansmith | mriedem: don't bring your TLAs here | 17:08 |
| dansmith | :) | 17:08 |
| VineetMenon_ | alaski: ack | 17:08 |
| mriedem | muwahaha | 17:08 |
| bauzas | mriedem: I call PRD on my side :) | 17:08 |
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| mriedem | gonna be a fine line to not cram every little detail into this thing | 17:08 |
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| dansmith | right | 17:08 |
| dansmith | manifestos are usually heavy on the goals, light on the actual details, right? :) | 17:09 |
| mriedem | like deployment impacts, a history of cells and deep dive, etc | 17:09 |
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| alaski | #action dansmith to start an etherpad with a cellsv2 manifesto | 17:09 |
| mriedem | i guess | 17:09 |
| mriedem | when i think of manifesto i only think of hitler, is that wrong? | 17:09 |
| bauzas | woah, first action | 17:09 |
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| leifz | manifesto == tell me why I should care... | 17:09 |
| dansmith | I think manifestos are usually "we want free icecream!" with no plan for how to pay for and deliver said icecream :) | 17:09 |
| edleafe | mriedem: more like unabomber | 17:09 |
| bauzas | isn't what the scrum world would call an epic ? :) | 17:10 |
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| mriedem | dansmith: so like a patent application :) | 17:10 |
| VineetMenon_ | mriedem: huehue | 17:10 |
| dansmith | I'm suddenly uncomfortable with being tasked with the manifesto, and what that apparently connotes to people :) | 17:10 |
| dansmith | mriedem: heh | 17:10 |
| leifz | https://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html | 17:10 |
| alaski | leifz: nice save | 17:10 |
| leifz | it's old, but good. | 17:10 |
| dansmith | yeah, and similar to what I'm talking about | 17:11 |
| dansmith | light on the details | 17:11 |
| mriedem | yeah, that's good | 17:11 |
| alaski | right, details should go in specs | 17:11 |
| mriedem | yup | 17:11 |
| alaski | cool, moving on | 17:11 |
| alaski | #topic Checkpoints | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Checkpoints (Meeting topic: nova-cells)" | 17:12 | |
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| alaski | I want to provide or get updates on various things we agreed to at the summit | 17:12 |
| alaski | I now have two specs up for some initial cells work | 17:12 |
| alaski | https://review.openstack.org/135424 and https://review.openstack.org/135644 | 17:13 |
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| alaski | there will be more, but I could use as much feedback as possible | 17:13 |
| dansmith | jogo and I were going to try to do a first pass at table analysis.. | 17:13 |
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| dansmith | I don't think that needs to be a spec, right? | 17:13 |
| alaski | dansmith: yeah, I don't think so | 17:13 |
| dansmith | cool | 17:14 |
| leifz | dansmith: can you put it somewhere to view? just want to get my hands around this aspect if possible. | 17:14 |
| alaski | but the results should live somewhere discoverable, perhaps in devref? | 17:14 |
| dansmith | leifz: totally | 17:14 |
| mriedem | devref would be good, it's under utilized and probably pretty stale | 17:14 |
| dansmith | alaski: devref might be a good place eventually, so that it's easy to refer to | 17:14 |
| mriedem | like does devref say anything about objects? | 17:14 |
| bauzas | mriedem: s/probably/obviously | 17:15 |
| dansmith | my guess is that there will be a few that belong on one side or another, but need some work to make that true | 17:15 |
| mriedem | the 2nd spec looks like a copy of the first when i reviewed the first yesterday | 17:15 |
| dansmith | so either devref will have to wait, or lie, or call those out | 17:15 |
| dheeraj-gupta-4 | alaski: IIRC per the new specs each cell gets its own API and the cell table tells them how to contact each other? | 17:15 |
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| dheeraj-gupta-4 | alaski: for the first spec | 17:15 |
| bauzas | dansmith: can the analysis findings be provided in an etherpad ? | 17:15 |
| alaski | dansmith: I would expect it to call them out | 17:15 |
| bauzas | dansmith: so we can discuss on it | 17:16 |
| alaski | but that is making me think an etherpad might be better for now | 17:16 |
| dansmith | bauzas: yeah, certainly we'll do the work in an etherpad, but if we want to argue, that's better suited for gerrit I think | 17:16 |
| alaski | dheeraj-gupta-4: each cell has it's own db, but there's one api | 17:16 |
| alaski | dheeraj-gupta-4: and the table tells the api how to contact each cell | 17:17 |
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| dheeraj-gupta-4 | alaski: Ahh OK | 17:17 |
| bauzas | dansmith: agreed | 17:17 |
| bauzas | dansmith: let's consider the etherpad as a first pass and then go to a devref file or whatever deliverable | 17:17 |
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| dansmith | yeah, I think that's what I said :) | 17:18 |
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| alaski | another action for dansmith! | 17:18 |
| dansmith | bah | 17:18 |
| alaski | #action dansmith to begin analysis of tables in an etherpad, to be moved to gerrit later | 17:18 |
| alaski | :) | 17:18 |
| bauzas | dansmith: I like paraphrasing :) | 17:19 |
| dansmith | jogo is suppsoed to help, so that's fine | 17:19 |
| dansmith | supposed even | 17:19 |
| alaski | there was quite a list of people to help on that one | 17:19 |
| dansmith | oh, okay cool | 17:19 |
| alaski | (Dan, Joe, Nikola, CERN, bauzas, NeCTAR) | 17:19 |
| VineetMenon_ | alaski:... won't it be pertinent to discuss what all data need to reside where, at this point? | 17:19 |
| dansmith | all of cern is helping with that? awesome :) | 17:19 |
| alaski | dansmith: good luck with that | 17:19 |
| dansmith | VineetMenon_: that's what we're talking about | 17:20 |
| belmoreira | yes :) | 17:20 |
| bauzas | alaski: don't know who this bauzas is | 17:20 |
| bauzas | :) | 17:20 |
| alaski | :) | 17:20 |
| leifz | alaski: we should cross-check on our side as well. | 17:20 |
| alaski | VineetMenon_: the etherpad will start that discussion. it's a bit early to do it in a meeting | 17:20 |
| VineetMenon_ | alaski: sure | 17:21 |
| belmoreira | alaski: for the initial work what are the other specs that you are thinking ? | 17:21 |
| alaski | leifz: yeah, I didn't volunteer because I have a lot of other things I committed to, but Rackspace definitely has valuable input | 17:21 |
| dansmith | leifz: the assumption here is that existing cells people have to validate that this is reasonable | 17:22 |
| alaski | belmoreira: the specs only go as far as creating new tables and the ability to use them. We need something for a migration of data into those tables and to start using them | 17:22 |
| leifz | alaski: if you can't, we'll find someone to help. | 17:22 |
| * leifz thinking I'm still volunteering alaski for now :-) | 17:22 | |
| alaski | I'll definitely be involved, just maybe more on verification than writing it | 17:22 |
| mriedem | there would need to be some tool to read data from the old nova db and write into the new nova_api db right? | 17:23 |
| dansmith | I think that the manifesto will help us brainstorm what else we need to do along the way | 17:23 |
| mriedem | assuming that's a later spec | 17:23 |
| alaski | mriedem: right. that's the next spec I'm looking to get together | 17:23 |
| dansmith | like objects knowing whether they should talk to the api conductor or the local one, the eventlet python problem, etc | 17:23 |
| belmoreira | alaski: the other thing that we discussed in the summit was testing | 17:24 |
| alaski | dansmith: agreed | 17:24 |
| alaski | belmoreira: yep, thanks | 17:24 |
| belmoreira | alaski: should that be a spec? | 17:24 |
| alaski | belmoreira: I don't think so at this point | 17:24 |
| mriedem | belmoreira: i think it depends on changes needed to qa | 17:24 |
| dansmith | yeah | 17:24 |
| alaski | I've been doing some work in infra for that | 17:24 |
| dansmith | anything we need to change in nova would be a bug | 17:24 |
| mriedem | if we need features in tempest, a small qa-spec is easy | 17:24 |
| mriedem | apparently i'm qa liasion so hopefully that goes both ways | 17:25 |
| alaski | I did get a change in to exclude some tests from tempest on the experimental cells run | 17:25 |
| mriedem | alaski: cool, i'd like to see that change at some point later if you can dig it up | 17:25 |
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| alaski | there's currently the issue that a flavor needs to exist in the cell db, which I'm hacking aroudn to get some data | 17:26 |
| alaski | I would actually like to rely on dansmiths flavors in instance_extra patch series to ultimately resolve this though | 17:26 |
| mriedem | alaski: link to that for reviews? | 17:26 |
| alaski | but in the meantime it might be worth considering alternatives | 17:26 |
| dansmith | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/flavor-from-sysmeta-to-blob,n,z | 17:26 |
| mriedem | #action review https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/flavor-from-sysmeta-to-blob,n,z | 17:27 |
| dansmith | mriedem: everything up to the last one with the WIP is good, I'm currently splitting the last one for sanity | 17:27 |
| mriedem | ok, i'll try to focus on those | 17:27 |
| alaski | I reviewed the early ones but haven't gotten through the end yet | 17:27 |
| VineetMenon_ | alaski: what about this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108238/ | 17:28 |
| alaski | VineetMenon_: I didn't realize that had merged | 17:28 |
| alaski | that may provide a short term workaround then | 17:28 |
| alaski | #action alaski to see if https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108238/ can be used to fix cells testing | 17:29 |
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| alaski | there was also an item from the summit to get scheduling requirements from cells users | 17:30 |
| bauzas | agreed | 17:30 |
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| alaski | johnthetubaguy agreed to help on that, but isn't here atm... so I don't have an update there | 17:30 |
| dansmith | yeah, and I think he has a good handle on the issue | 17:30 |
| dansmith | so I think it'd be good to have him own that | 17:31 |
| alaski | yeah | 17:31 |
| alaski | I'll ping him specifically next time to get an update on that | 17:31 |
| dansmith | yeah, next meeting is late for him | 17:31 |
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| alaski | that leads nicely into something I wanted to ask about | 17:32 |
| alaski | #topic open discussion | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova-cells)" | 17:32 | |
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| alaski | I didn't get a lot of feedback on who might attend the 2200 meeting | 17:32 |
| mriedem | that's 4pm for me i think so i should be able to attend | 17:33 |
| belmoreira | for me ok | 17:33 |
| bauzas | I guess most of the EU people can't decently attend | 17:33 |
| alaski | so what I'm curious about is if it actually helps anyone? | 17:33 |
| bauzas | oh, seems like CERN is now relocating to the US ? :) | 17:33 |
| mriedem | tz wise? | 17:33 |
| vineet | alaski: None from Asia, at least. | 17:33 |
| alaski | I'm going to hold it for a bit to see who shows up, but if it's always the same group it may be easier to consolidate | 17:33 |
| alaski | mriedem: right | 17:34 |
| mriedem | sounds good | 17:34 |
| dansmith | I prefer consolidation of course, but yeah, not sure who else would show up in that slow | 17:34 |
| dansmith | er, slot | 17:34 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: well is 2300 CET so is not to bad... | 17:34 |
| dansmith | mikal maybe, but I doubt he'd need to be here really | 17:34 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: :) | 17:34 |
| alaski | dansmith: yeah, I think if we bring updates to the nova meeting he may be good | 17:34 |
| dansmith | yeah, so not sure who else the later meeting helps | 17:35 |
| vineet | was that specifically for people in US? | 17:35 |
| mriedem | i think that was the plan at the summit | 17:35 |
| alaski | anyways, just wanted to bring it up and see if anyone here was helped by that timeslot | 17:35 |
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| mriedem | the subgroups bring updates to the nova meeting, at least monthly or per milestone | 17:35 |
| alaski | vineet: the other slot was for asia/pacific region | 17:35 |
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| vineet | alaski: aah. | 17:36 |
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| alaski | well, we'll see how it goes | 17:36 |
| alaski | anyone have anything else to discuss? | 17:36 |
| mriedem | i guess my only open topic thing would be, | 17:36 |
| mriedem | work items, | 17:36 |
| mriedem | like if you think of things people can start working on now, | 17:37 |
| vineet | alaski: testing of present cell functionality? | 17:37 |
| mriedem | make a list | 17:37 |
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| mriedem | since i don't know the existing cells design/code that well, if there are low hanging fruit things you want help with but don't have time, we should have a list for people to sign up, | 17:37 |
| alaski | mriedem: good point | 17:37 |
| mriedem | e.g. 'these unit tests suck, re-write them' or something, idk, like what jay did with the scheduling stuff | 17:37 |
| mriedem | consider me an intern and code review monkey otherwise | 17:38 |
| alaski | I'd like to get a list of what's left for testing, once I get more info about what happens when flavors is fixed | 17:38 |
| alaski | and I will share that for everyone who wants to help | 17:38 |
| dansmith | mriedem: my guess is that you can help with the testing effort without needing to know much | 17:38 |
| dansmith | mriedem: I think plenty of those issues are just mechanical "didn't expect a ! in the instance name" thing or something | 17:38 |
| mriedem | sure | 17:38 |
| mriedem | if someone can just give me a task and say go, i can ask questions as needed | 17:39 |
| vineet | can someone confirm this bug for me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/tempest/+bug/1394227 | 17:39 |
| dansmith | alaski: presumably you can cultivate such a list as you go along, right/ | 17:39 |
| leifz | alaski: a good example is the GET calls may be easier to move over to the new functionality while other things are being addressed. | 17:39 |
| alaski | vineet: testing is mostly blocked by the flavors issue atm so that needs to be addressed first | 17:39 |
| gilliard | I'm in the same situation. Where would the list live? | 17:39 |
| bauzas | mriedem: it took some iterations to get the list we discussed at the summit for the scheduling stuff :) | 17:39 |
| mriedem | gilliard: thinking etherpad | 17:39 |
| vineet | alaski: okay. | 17:39 |
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| gilliard | makes sense | 17:39 |
| bauzas | mriedem: that's just coming from our past weekly discussions :) | 17:39 |
| jogo | vineet: I was just looking at that bug, | 17:39 |
| alaski | dansmith: yes, I can keep a list going | 17:40 |
| jogo | vineet alaski: my understanding is we aren't fixing existing cells issues | 17:40 |
| vineet | jogo: sure.. please let me know if you are able to reproduce it | 17:40 |
| alaski | I'll get an etherpad going for that | 17:40 |
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| mriedem | vineet: check the experimental queue cells tempest job to see if that test fails there, | 17:40 |
| jogo | just making sure we don't code rot | 17:40 |
| mriedem | if the test is using security groups or something that's probably why it's failing | 17:40 |
| dansmith | yeah | 17:40 |
| mriedem | which i think it does, sets up a security group and then ssh's into the vm | 17:41 |
| alaski | #action alaski to cultivate a list of tempest tests that could use eyes or fixes | 17:41 |
| mriedem | i'll find a link to the cells tempest job on experimental so we can refer to that for what's failing today | 17:41 |
| vineet | mridem: okay.. I'll try that ASAP | 17:41 |
| alaski | jogo: it may be necessary to fix some issues, but mainly we're trying to adapt testing to test what currently works | 17:41 |
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| jogo | alaski: ahh | 17:42 |
| mriedem | yeah | 17:42 |
| mriedem | baseline | 17:42 |
| mriedem | so we don't regress cells v1 | 17:42 |
| dansmith | yeah, we probably just need to take each one | 17:42 |
| alaski | mriedem: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135064/ btw | 17:42 |
| mriedem | alaski: thanks | 17:42 |
| dansmith | "is this worth fixing because it increases coverage" | 17:42 |
| alaski | exactly | 17:43 |
| leifz | There weren't many, but when I checked last there were a small set that dealt with the cellname mucking up our response (looked to be translation issue of some sort), but that's only a few tests. | 17:43 |
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| alaski | also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135621/ hacks around the flavors issue atm so results there are worth looking at | 17:44 |
| mriedem | leifz: we could disable ceilometer in the cells exp queue run if needed, | 17:44 |
| mriedem | but why would ceilometer muck up nova's responses? | 17:44 |
| dansmith | cellname | 17:44 |
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| leifz | no these were http related (I don't remember the details) just went "hmmm... that's crazy we don't have the right code there". | 17:44 |
| mriedem | color me lost | 17:45 |
| dansmith | mriedem: he didn't say ceilometer | 17:45 |
| mriedem | ah | 17:45 |
| mriedem | ha | 17:45 |
| leifz | mriedem: CELLNAME not to be confused with a monitoring project | 17:45 |
| mriedem | i thought alaski was talking about that at the summit too, something about a hostname issue or something | 17:45 |
| mriedem | maybe unrelated | 17:45 |
| alaski | mriedem: nope, same thing | 17:46 |
| vineet | mriedem: I'll post the nova log as well... tomorrow maybe | 17:46 |
| alaski | hostname is cellname!hostname in current cells | 17:46 |
| mriedem | i'd like to propose bubbles as the codename for the next openstack monitoring project, thanks | 17:46 |
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| vineet | mriedem: southpark? | 17:46 |
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| mriedem | vineet: bubbles was the joke codename for cellsv2 | 17:47 |
| mriedem | or not joke, i couldn't tell | 17:47 |
| dansmith | I vote for Sparkly Twinkly Free Unicorn | 17:47 |
| dansmith | or STFU for short | 17:47 |
| mriedem | ha | 17:47 |
| vineet | :D | 17:47 |
| alaski | on that note, anything else? :) | 17:47 |
| dansmith | please no. | 17:47 |
| mriedem | nope | 17:48 |
| alaski | excellent | 17:48 |
| alaski | #endmeeting | 17:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 17:48:19 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2014/nova_cells.2014-11-19-17.00.html | 17:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2014/nova_cells.2014-11-19-17.00.txt | 17:48 |
| alaski | thanks everyone! | 17:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2014/nova_cells.2014-11-19-17.00.log.html | 17:48 |
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| gilliard | those links for minutes and log don't work - do I have to be more patient? | 17:49 |
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| gilliard | (there now) | 17:51 |
| alaski | cool. I wasn't sure how it worked since this is my first meeting | 17:52 |
| gilliard | Thanks. I'm UK based so won't be at the 2200 one. | 17:52 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: badveli: hi | 18:32 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: hi | 18:32 |
| badveli | hello sumit | 18:32 |
| SridarK | badveli: hi | 18:32 |
| badveli | hello sridar | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | apologies for the delay, lets get started | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:32 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 19 18:32:51 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:32 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:32 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:32 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #announce SPD: Monday 12-8-2014 SAD: Monday 12-15-2014 | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: vishwanathj: hi | 18:34 |
| vishwanathj | vi | 18:34 |
| vishwanathj | hi | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hope the SPD and SAD dates are not too intimidating ;-) | 18:35 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: SPD, SAD are fast upon us | 18:35 |
| SridarK | did not realize the timeline earlier either | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yes, so lets focus on what we want to get in by that, we will pick that up in just a bit | 18:36 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Bugs | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:36 | |
| badveli | december 15th | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: hi | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #undo | 18:36 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x1fe1950> | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay since we have some more critical mass here | 18:37 |
| * glebo is here, but tied up on another call, so not really paying much attention. If needed, ping me unicast, and I'll pay attention to group | 18:37 | |
| badveli | just wanted to clarify if the spec approval is by december 15tt | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i wanted bring up the question that we had discussed in the adv services’ meeting as well yesterday | 18:37 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | do we need this sub-team and this meeting? | 18:38 |
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| SridarK | badveli: yes | 18:38 |
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| badveli | thanks sridar | 18:38 |
| * pc_m hi. I'm multitasking meetings. | 18:38 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: ? | 18:38 |
| badveli | sumit, i was confirming the spec approval date | 18:39 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: my vote is that it helps us discuss details as we get more into the specs and code especially | 18:39 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i don't think we can discuss this in the neutron mtg | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: okay, what do other folks present here think? glebo vishwanathj badveli pc_m? | 18:39 |
| badveli | previously when we wanted to discuss | 18:40 |
| glebo | i think we need this meeting because we are still really FAR behind the feature set required to be genuinely useful to operators, and once we get split done, we need to run like bats of out hell getting caught up, and the rest of the community doesn't need to be a part of that | 18:40 |
| badveli | in late juno cycle | 18:40 |
| * glebo goes back to other mtg | 18:40 | |
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| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: I'm just monitoring to keep a pulse on FWaaS (and make sure you're keeping things in line :) | 18:40 |
| badveli | we used to join the meeting when we want | 18:40 |
| SridarK | glebo: +1 | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: :-) | 18:40 |
| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: Not sure if need this meeting or can include in Adv Svcs meeting as a topic. | 18:41 |
| SridarK | pc_m: with his baseball bat :-) | 18:41 |
| badveli | my question is when we need info can we | 18:41 |
| badveli | join the meeting | 18:41 |
| badveli | ? | 18:41 |
| badveli | i am fine wither way | 18:41 |
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| badveli | either way | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: its proposed that this will be a standing item on the adv services meeting | 18:41 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: however our past experience is that we have used up the one hour of the FWaaS meetings prety regularly | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: and i am sure LBaaS tends to use theirs as well (in their meeting) | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: so i would tend to think that the adv services’ meeting would be more of an update from each of the services’ teams to the rest of the group | 18:43 |
| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: That may make for the argument to keep it sep. | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: rather than deeper technical discussions (which we tend to have here) | 18:43 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: yeah | 18:43 |
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| pc_m | SumitNaiksatam: makes sense | 18:43 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i feel that this is a time that is blocked in our calendars and an opportunity for a quick sync up to discuss issues on hand | 18:43 |
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| * pc_m putting bat back in drawer | 18:43 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: okay | 18:44 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: else we may land up doing this adhoc | 18:44 |
| * pc_m :) | 18:44 | |
| vishwanathj | SridarK +1 | 18:44 |
| SridarK | pc_m: Whew! :-) | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: okay | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: :-) | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay so it seems that this team wants to continue this collaboration as a sub-team, and continue the meetings as well | 18:44 |
| badveli | sumit, having the item in the adv service meeting will also give an opportuniy in asking qurestions which we are not sure | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: yes, i explained earlier what we will be doing in each of the meetings | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok moving on | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Bugs | 18:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:45 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | so we dont seem to have any new high priority bugs on reported | 18:46 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes nothing new | 18:46 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | the highest priority one is this on the client side: | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-neutronclient/+bug/1318617 | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the priority for this was bumped up, not sure why | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets review the patch: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104132/ | 18:48 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: anything else on your bug triaging radar? | 18:48 |
| badveli | nothing much i am checking the other one | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: which other one? | 18:49 |
| badveli | tear down existing session | 18:49 |
| badveli | when there is an update | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: ah okay | 18:49 |
| SridarK | badveli: the iptables issue ? | 18:49 |
| badveli | yes | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah we discussed last week | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: can you post the link? | 18:50 |
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| badveli | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1386543 | 18:51 |
| SridarK | may be not much may need to be done on this | 18:51 |
| badveli | yes | 18:52 |
| SridarK | from the fw side | 18:52 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok good | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: please keep tracking since its assigned to you | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Docs | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:53 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: and I had an AI last week to follow up on the FWaaS/DVR documentation | 18:53 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | just heard back from swami | 18:53 |
| SridarK | yes we looks like it is WIP | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: from what i understood, he will be making the doc changes? | 18:53 |
| SridarK | I will be in sync with Swami | 18:54 |
| SridarK | I could provide a description of the fw side of the world | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: ok cool, perhaps we can pass the link to the rest of the team as well (should help to get more eyes on the review) | 18:54 |
| SridarK | anyways will sync with Swami | 18:54 |
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| SridarK | ok will do when i get it | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks | 18:55 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: any other docs activity showing up your radar? | 18:55 |
| SridarK | the other is one is: | 18:55 |
| SridarK | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1346986 | 18:55 |
| SridarK | this seems to be an update on a section for the Security Guide | 18:56 |
| SridarK | and it is quite dated - so am confused by what is actually reqd | 18:56 |
| SridarK | as the general docs cover FWaaS | 18:56 |
| SridarK | I should reach out to the submitter for some clarification - should have done that earlier - apologies | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah this is the one which rudrajit was assigned to | 18:57 |
| SridarK | will take care of this | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | seems to be sitting there for a long time | 18:57 |
| SridarK | if it is not relevant we can close it | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | not sure if its even relevant any more | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah exactly | 18:57 |
| SridarK | yes and it involves a lot of other things not just fwaas | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | there are a bunch of doc bugs mentioned in the neutron meeting: | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we need to scrub this list to see if there is anything that we need to contribute to | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.tag=neutron | 18:59 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i will do this and reach out to Edgar if more clarification is needed | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: great, thanks@ | 18:59 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | its interesting there are references to quantum in that list ;-) | 18:59 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:59 |
| SridarK | i would like to see positron or quark or whatever in the next cycle :-) | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think we need to pay attention to this: #lik https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1373674 | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1373674 | 19:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | perhaps follow up with anne gentle on this | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: you want to take that AI? | 19:01 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes pls | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action SridarK to follow up with ann gentle on #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1373674 | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: please cc me (and anyone else interested) as well, so that we can jump in if required | 19:02 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: will do | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: thanks | 19:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | moving on | 19:03 |
| badveli | yes | 19:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Kilo Blueprints | 19:03 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | badveli’s security objects and groups: | 19:03 |
| badveli | yes sumit | 19:03 |
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| SridarK | badveli: thanks for addressing my review comments | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131596/ | 19:04 |
| badveli | thanks sridar, for review | 19:04 |
| badveli | i think sumit wants to rephrase some of them | 19:04 |
| SridarK | badveli: i think once u have addressed the latest round from SumitNaiksatam - i think i am good | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i added some review comments | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: thanks | 19:05 |
| badveli | yes i am in the process, but one thing in the work items | 19:05 |
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| badveli | how can we explain more | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i had mentioned this process, we need to tighten up the content otherwise it creates unnecessary misunderstanding | 19:06 |
| badveli | my problem is if i do not put them after * | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and we should not have to waste cycles on grammar and typos | 19:06 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | this should be run through spell checkers upfront | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | having reviewers tell you to correct grammar, and then having to spend the back and forth cycles on doing it, is just a big waste of time | 19:07 |
| badveli | do we have some kind of tool | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | badveli: be creative :-) | 19:07 |
| badveli | i am just editing in the vi, | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | easy to copy paste in a word-like editor :-) | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay, any other objections or blockers on the techincal front with respect to this blueprint? | 19:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | or any suggestions for badveli? | 19:08 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: none from me - i think the model resembles Sec Grps | 19:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: okay | 19:09 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: badveli confirmed this in terms of object to group association | 19:09 |
| badveli | thanks sridar | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: that we cannot resuse objects across groups? | 19:09 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay | 19:09 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: we can take a call on the approach | 19:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the reuse is at the group level | 19:10 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes | 19:10 |
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| badveli | yes | 19:10 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | so this is consistent with the FWaaS rule and policy association as well, right? | 19:11 |
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| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: i think this is fine but this should not become a roadblock on Dec 14 - i think this kind of adopts the Sec grp way of doing things | 19:11 |
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| badveli | yes this is similar to sec grp way | 19:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we cant reuse rules across firewall policies | 19:11 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | *firewall rules | 19:12 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes so this is consistent | 19:12 |
| badveli | yes | 19:12 |
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| SridarK | as long as we are clear there is no issue here | 19:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so once badveli puts out the new rev, lets try to push forward | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: did you get a response to the email you had sent regarding the service groups blueprint? | 19:14 |
| SridarK | badveli: after ur next rev - i will go thru one other scan and i can +1 | 19:14 |
| glebo | SumitNaiksatam: I don't think so | 19:15 |
| * glebo double checking now | 19:15 | |
| badveli | thanks sridar, sumit | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | glebo: okay, yeah just checking, since i did not see anything | 19:15 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | the next one we are tracking is the router-specific firewall insertion | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: any progress? | 19:18 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: few options | 19:18 |
| SridarK | Option 1: Revive Service Insertion - i am not sure about how this will fly. | 19:18 |
| SridarK | Option 2: Insert FW on a specific Router. (what Mark wanted) | 19:18 |
| SridarK | Option 3: Insert FW on neutron port(s) (we can validate to ensure that if it is a list they are all associated with a single router) | 19:18 |
| SridarK | My personal opinion is that if we are not doing Option 1, Option 3 is reasonable - it can achieve the requirement from Mark and yet is more flexible. | 19:19 |
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| SridarK | the Spec deadlines got me boltibg | 19:19 |
| SridarK | *bolting | 19:19 |
| bobmel | I agree, why essentially waste effort on a something halfbacked as option 2 | 19:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah i dont think we are doing option 1 | 19:19 |
| SridarK | i have started putting things down for a spec | 19:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bobmel: i agree, though that comes with the risk of a -2 | 19:20 |
| SridarK | will get a first cut out by end of week | 19:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and i am willing to vote in favor of that option if everyone in the team here feels likewise | 19:20 |
| SridarK | bobmel: yes | 19:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bobmel: btw, welcome to the fwaas meeting ;-) | 19:20 |
| bobmel | SumitNaiksatam: Yes but it is a bit insane to -2 something that is more useful in practice | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bobmel: i will let history speak for itself! ;-) | 19:21 |
| bobmel | SumitNaiksatam: Like pc_m I monitor every step... :-) Hope I can actively contribute going forward though. | 19:21 |
| s3wong | SridarK: option 1 is already rejected by markmcclain --- during Friday's meeting in Paris, markmcclain talked about FW able to run on selected routers without a new service insertion framework | 19:21 |
| SridarK | bobmel: yes agree i think we can find a reasonable ground | 19:21 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ah s3wong, we have lots of people watching over our shoulders today! :-) | 19:22 |
| SridarK | s3wong: yes i think we can work with option 3 that will satisfy the requirement | 19:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and i thought we were lacking critical mass | 19:22 |
| SridarK | hopefully no one came with weapons | 19:23 |
| SridarK | :-) | 19:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: lol | 19:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: sorry to push, any ETA on posting the spec? | 19:23 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: ok i will put things down in a spec | 19:23 |
| s3wong | SridarK: keep in mind that markmcclain wants to have the ability to backport to stable branches, so a new framework would be out of question, too much to port | 19:23 |
| SridarK | will try for end of week | 19:23 |
| SridarK | s3wong: hmm we will need to add an extension | 19:24 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: just got out of my day job meeting -- and was attracted by the term "service insertion" :-) | 19:24 |
| SridarK | s3wong: u are a riot (meant as a compliment) :-) | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: not sure why an extension is required | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: but lets take it offline | 19:25 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: u are saying add it as an attribute to the resource | 19:25 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes we can discuss more | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: i am also curious as to what the default would be with ports | 19:25 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: i am sure you have given this thought, so lets see it in the spec | 19:26 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: as far as the spec is concerned, you can keep it simple and cut to the chase | 19:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: easier to read that way :-) | 19:26 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: more thought is needed here - will ping u offline | 19:26 |
| badveli | please let me know also when you are discussing this | 19:26 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: yes will do | 19:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: extra details can be added per request | 19:26 |
| * glebo just resent that email to mestery & markmcclain trying to nail down required reviewers for Service Object & Groups spec | 19:27 | |
| SridarK | badveli: sure | 19:27 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: ok sounds good | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | anything else to discuss on this topic? | 19:27 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: nothing from me | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Open Discussion | 19:27 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | anything more to cover for today? | 19:27 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: we wil also be pushing a vendor bp | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: sure | 19:28 |
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| SridarK | it is out already ( i have resubmitted from Juno) | 19:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | anyone else planning to push a vendor bp, so that we can track it? | 19:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | fwass-related that is | 19:28 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: ? | 19:28 |
| vishwanathj | Brocade will soon | 19:28 |
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| SridarK | vishwanathj: if u have intent for Kilo u should do that soon | 19:28 |
| vishwanathj | SridarK, understood | 19:29 |
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| pc_m | FYI: I'm starting on some L3 agent refactoring. Starting with extracting out device driver logic. Please look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135392/ if you get a chance. | 19:29 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: karhik will need to get his router stuff out too | 19:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: yeah, you might have missed earlier, SPD: Monday 12-8-2014 SAD: Monday 12-15-2014 | 19:29 |
| pc_m | Teasing out FW, VPN, LB device driver loading. | 19:29 |
| SridarK | *karthik | 19:29 |
| vishwanathj | SridarK, I think Karthik already did that for the router last week | 19:29 |
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| SridarK | ok | 19:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: sweet, great that you could get started on this | 19:30 |
| pc_m | would love and FW centric feedback on what's happening there. | 19:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pc_m: is such situations it will help proactively add us reviewers so that it readily shows up on our radars | 19:30 |
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| vishwanathj | SumitNaiksatam: What is SPD and what is SAD | 19:30 |
| pc_m | (and LB too) | 19:30 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: spec proposal deadline, spec approval deadline | 19:31 |
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| SridarK | pc_m: u have my feedback | 19:31 |
| vishwanathj | Thanks | 19:31 |
| pc_m | SridarK: Thanks! | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | vishwanathj: propose the spec latest by the first deadline and get it approved by the second | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok thanks all | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we are minute over | 19:31 |
| SridarK | bye | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | thanks for joining | 19:31 |
| vishwanathj | Ok | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bye! | 19:31 |
| vishwanathj | bye | 19:31 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: ping me offline | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 19:31 |
| badveli | bye | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 19 19:31:44 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-11-19-18.32.html | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-11-19-18.32.txt | 19:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2014/networking_fwaas.2014-11-19-18.32.log.html | 19:31 |
| SridarK | vishwanathj: i can clarify some things around spec | 19:32 |
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| vishwanathj | SridarK thanks | 19:32 |
| SridarK | np | 19:32 |
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