| etoews | i'm just making a quick edit of the meeting wiki page | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| cyeoh | cool :-) | 00:00 |
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| etoews | #startmeeting api wg | 00:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 27 00:01:36 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is etoews. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 00:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 00:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 00:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'api_wg' | 00:01 |
| etoews | i just updated the agenda | 00:01 |
| etoews | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-WG#Agenda | 00:02 |
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| etoews | #topic voting | 00:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "voting (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 00:03 | |
| etoews | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131358/ | 00:03 |
| cyeoh | I guess I should really update that one | 00:03 |
| etoews | i haven't had a chance to fully review that | 00:03 |
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| elmiko | i was kinda curious to see the next revision | 00:04 |
| etoews | can you tl;dr? | 00:04 |
| cyeoh | yea I'll get to that today my time and merge in the comments | 00:04 |
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| etoews | what's the consensus? | 00:04 |
| cyeoh | I guess the only thing I'd like to really retain is that the voting %'s are based on who turns up to vote, not who is eligible to vote | 00:04 |
| cyeoh | I think that would make it easier to get things through at this stage (we can tighten things up later if we want to) | 00:05 |
| elmiko | etoews: not sure i can tldr it well, there's a bunch of detail about how the process should work out. | 00:05 |
| etoews | cyeoh: that seems reasonable to me. | 00:05 |
| elmiko | cyeoh: that makes sense, do we need some sort of minimum number for a quorum? | 00:05 |
| cyeoh | elmiko: i suggested 5 in the comments | 00:06 |
| elmiko | cool, missed that one | 00:06 |
| cyeoh | if things look like they're going crazy with that being too small then we can always revisit... | 00:06 |
| elmiko | i can envision it being an issue, but i feel like with the time frames involved for voting it won't be a huge deal. | 00:07 |
| etoews | does that minimum of 5 need to have a particular role? e.g. wg member, ptl, tc, etc. | 00:07 |
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| cyeoh | etoews: honestly I think we should just go for speed for now, so no. those who are interested. | 00:08 |
| etoews | +1 | 00:08 |
| cyeoh | it is all still marked as draft (I did merge that) | 00:08 |
| cyeoh | and the TC still has the final say on the document overall before we can get out of draft - so there is sanity checking | 00:08 |
| elmiko | it seemed to me that the idea of creating a hierarchy would definitely need to be discussed | 00:08 |
| cyeoh | elmiko: I'm ok with the there being more processes once we have more of a document (say a 1.0) | 00:09 |
| elmiko | cyeoh: agreed, i just noticed that even talking about "wg members" proved to be contentious | 00:10 |
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| cyeoh | elmiko: in the current document we have two gates to the document coming out of draft. The TC and the PTL rep vote - but that's just on the document overall, not on a per patch basis which I thikn would be too small | 00:10 |
| etoews | so what happens in the case that the tc disagrees with some small detail of the guidelines? they veto publication and we fix small detail? | 00:10 |
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| cyeoh | etoews: yea, I'd hope it would not go to a vote, that they'd just give us feedback ahead of time so we could fix | 00:10 |
| elmiko | cyeoh: yea, after thinking about it more, i think the gate measures in place are good enough for what we are proposing, even if membership is wide open. | 00:10 |
| etoews | okay | 00:11 |
| etoews | so an action item for cyeoh to update it? | 00:12 |
| cyeoh | sure! | 00:12 |
| elmiko | +1 | 00:12 |
| etoews | #action cyeoh to update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131358/ based on feedback | 00:12 |
| cyeoh | so for the record I am going to be pretty much out and uncontactable after 4th december until january. So after that point anyway should feel to update the patch if its not yet merged | 00:13 |
| etoews | s/anyway/anyone/ ??? | 00:13 |
| elmiko | cyeoh: good to know | 00:14 |
| cyeoh | well anyone who is really interested (sorry, unfortunately unavoidable but I have to go in for some surgery and not sure of recovery time yet | 00:14 |
| elmiko | no worries, and good luck =) | 00:14 |
| cyeoh | thx! | 00:14 |
| etoews | cyeoh: youch. all the best. | 00:15 |
| etoews | #topic APIImpact flag | 00:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "APIImpact flag (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 00:15 | |
| etoews | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+AND+(message:ApiImpact+OR+message:APIImpact),n,z | 00:15 |
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| etoews | looks like people are starting to use the APIImpact flag :) | 00:15 |
| cyeoh | yes :-) | 00:16 |
| elmiko | yea, was gonna say it's a nice list | 00:16 |
| etoews | is there anything we should look at right now? | 00:17 |
| cyeoh | I think this one is worth a look: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136487/ | 00:17 |
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| cyeoh | its proposing another use of resource/action on a resource | 00:18 |
| cyeoh | we do this a bit already in Nova especially in /servers/ but my understanding is that its not really well liked (bit of a hack) | 00:18 |
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| cyeoh | so I'm interested in what people think | 00:18 |
| miguelgrinberg | yeah, actions are not good to have in URLs | 00:19 |
| cyeoh | bit of background - this is for remove a server from a server group | 00:19 |
| miguelgrinberg | is the server a standalone resource? | 00:19 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: i thought actions were acceptable if they are accessing an api function? | 00:19 |
| cyeoh | I suggested DELETE /v2/fake/os-server-groups/<server_group_id>/<server_id> instead | 00:19 |
| miguelgrinberg | elmiko: acceptable by who? According to REST guidelines this is always bad. | 00:20 |
| etoews | DELETE seems more natural to me too | 00:20 |
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| miguelgrinberg | if the individual server has a URI, then send a DELETE to that guy, yes | 00:21 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: yes, we generally access server stuff through /servers | 00:21 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: in this case we're not deleting the server, just removing it from the server group | 00:21 |
| miguelgrinberg | then send a PUT to the group | 00:21 |
| miguelgrinberg | and include all the servers in the group minus the one you are removing | 00:22 |
| cyeoh | what is currently proposed in the spec is /v2/fake/os-server-groups/<server_group_id>/action | 00:22 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: a bit racey though isn't it? | 00:22 |
| miguelgrinberg | I see that the URI ends with /action, that cannot be a URI of a group resource | 00:22 |
| stevelle | is there additional metadata associated with the server's membership in the group? that would make it a proper resource. | 00:22 |
| cyeoh | stevelle: no a server is simply in the group or not | 00:23 |
| miguelgrinberg | what stevelle suggests is always a viable option. Have a resource that maintains the membership of a server to a group, then DELETE that resource | 00:23 |
| stevelle | cyeoh: that would generally support miguelgrinberg's suggestion it seems | 00:24 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: is that what a server_group_id is? | 00:24 |
| cyeoh | i mean isn't that what a server group id is? | 00:24 |
| cyeoh | you create through os-server-groups resource a server group which contains a list of server_ids | 00:24 |
| miguelgrinberg | I need to look up the API docs, I can't find that in this patch | 00:25 |
| stevelle | DELETE /v2/fake/os-server-groups/<server_group_id>/<server_id> seems legitimate as well to me | 00:25 |
| etoews | the api docs for the rest of the ops would be a big help here | 00:25 |
| stevelle | its a very specific statement about how to patch the server - group membership | 00:25 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: yea this is just a proposal to be able to remove a server from a group since that was not supported in the original impl | 00:25 |
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| cyeoh | http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/2/content/ext-os-server-groups.html | 00:26 |
| etoews | stevelle: maybe DELETE /v2/fake/os-server-groups/<server_group_id>/servers/<server_id> | 00:26 |
| stevelle | etoews: also acceptable to me | 00:26 |
| miguelgrinberg | cyeoh: what's in the "members" attribute in the response when you ask for a server group? | 00:26 |
| stevelle | don't believe we have come to any convention on the topic of naming resources before identifying them in paths | 00:26 |
| miguelgrinberg | is it URIs or IDs? | 00:26 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: id's - we only very very rarely have uris in nova | 00:27 |
| miguelgrinberg | I think we need to separate our discussions into the practical and the forward looking. | 00:27 |
| miguelgrinberg | If we talk about the best solution, then I would put URIs to group-membership resources in that list | 00:28 |
| miguelgrinberg | then you can DELETE any of those | 00:28 |
| miguelgrinberg | of course we'll have to figure out something else for the short term | 00:28 |
| miguelgrinberg | more in line with current practices | 00:28 |
| cyeoh | note that ids refer to the servers ids (so we don't want to delete them) | 00:28 |
| miguelgrinberg | cyeoh: yes, I understand that | 00:29 |
| etoews | i expect that currently you can't even refer to individual servers in a server group | 00:29 |
| etoews | i would expect to get a list of servers in a group at /v2/fake/os-server-groups/<server_group_id>/servers/ | 00:29 |
| cyeoh | etoews: yea, can't do that, only can get it through the members list | 00:30 |
| etoews | nuts | 00:30 |
| cyeoh | but I think I understand what you're saying now | 00:30 |
| cyeoh | so anyone I think it'd be nice if we can comment what the least-worst solution is for what we have now | 00:31 |
| cyeoh | (on the proposed spec) | 00:31 |
| miguelgrinberg | the problem with /servers is that it doesn't give you the membership, we are still missing the concept of a group membership, which is what you may want to remove | 00:31 |
| etoews | right | 00:31 |
| miguelgrinberg | yes, that makes sense | 00:31 |
| cyeoh | I think /action is the worst solution ;-) | 00:31 |
| miguelgrinberg | but it is consistent with other things currently in place, correct? | 00:32 |
| cyeoh | we do use actions a lot on /servers | 00:32 |
| miguelgrinberg | ah, I see, there is no /actions on server-groups yet | 00:32 |
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| cyeoh | but I've heard a few people complain about it. Yea, nothing on server-groups yet so we can avoid it | 00:32 |
| stevelle | the reboot action does not have a clear HTTP verb | 00:32 |
| miguelgrinberg | so what do you think if the members list is sent in a PUT request without the server that needs to be removed? | 00:33 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: my first thought is potentially racey? | 00:33 |
| miguelgrinberg | is this async? | 00:33 |
| cyeoh | someone adds one while someone deletes one? | 00:33 |
| etoews | it's also kind of painful for a client to code to | 00:33 |
| miguelgrinberg | how bit are these groups normally? | 00:34 |
| miguelgrinberg | *big | 00:34 |
| etoews | you can never just remove a server membership | 00:34 |
| etoews | you always need to know all the members | 00:34 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: I don't really know, I guess they could get pretty big. mostly just used for affinity at the moment I think, but either way I think only being able to set the group is awkward. and we won't support adding a server for a whiel | 00:35 |
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| miguelgrinberg | well, given the current state of things, editing the members list is the most restful option, without having to go into exposing URIs for memberships | 00:37 |
| miguelgrinberg | and it leaves the door open to additions when they are implemented | 00:37 |
| miguelgrinberg | is this members list paginated? | 00:38 |
| miguelgrinberg | or is there ever a situation where you would get a partial list | 00:38 |
| cyeoh | don't know for sure, I doubt it | 00:38 |
| miguelgrinberg | what do you think about having a /server-groups/<group-id>/servers/<server-id> resource? | 00:40 |
| miguelgrinberg | that would be a membership resource, you can delete it to remove the membership | 00:40 |
| miguelgrinberg | and if you query the /servers you get the list | 00:41 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg, etoews: if you could put your suggestings on the spec I think that would help (otherwise its likely to get just approved as-is) | 00:41 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: I'd be ok with that. I think it heads in the right direction | 00:41 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: that option makes a lot of sense for me | 00:41 |
| miguelgrinberg | cyeoh: okay, I'll comment on the spec | 00:41 |
| etoews | +1 | 00:41 |
| miguelgrinberg | my only (minor) concern is that it may look like you are deleting the server, not the membership | 00:42 |
| etoews | #action miguelgrinberg to comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136487/ regarding restfully removing a server from a group | 00:42 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: what about your suggestion earlier of having a membership id that could be deleted? | 00:42 |
| etoews | i need to leave in a few minutes. can someone else end the meeting? | 00:42 |
| cyeoh | etoews: only you have the power to end the meeting :-( | 00:43 |
| miguelgrinberg | that would be this, I'm just saying that having a URL in form /groups/<group-id>/servers/<server-id> may seem like it points to a server, while it points to a membership | 00:43 |
| elmiko | ok, yea i could see that | 00:43 |
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| miguelgrinberg | still better than what's proposed | 00:43 |
| cyeoh | +1 | 00:44 |
| etoews | instead of /servers/ it could be /server-memberships/ ? | 00:44 |
| miguelgrinberg | ah, that would help | 00:44 |
| elmiko | that at least makes it clearer | 00:44 |
| stevelle | +1 | 00:44 |
| sigmavirus24 | +1 for good naming | 00:45 |
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| etoews | or maybe its /group-memberships/ ? | 00:45 |
| sigmavirus24 | (sorry for arriving late) | 00:45 |
| etoews | depends on the perspective... | 00:45 |
| stevelle | adding /members/ is shorter and coincides with a glance v2 api | 00:45 |
| stevelle | but I like the long form | 00:46 |
| elmiko | at that point do you even need the "group-" part? | 00:46 |
| etoews | i'll stick around until 7 to end the meeting and just be late for my next thing. :P | 00:46 |
| cyeoh | yea the only thing that could be a member is a server anyway | 00:46 |
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| elmiko | seems clearly spelled out in the uri /groups/<group-id>/memberships/<server-id> | 00:47 |
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| etoews | i'd prefer consistency with glance and use /members/ | 00:48 |
| miguelgrinberg | these memberships are given when the group is created, correct? | 00:48 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: yes currently that is the only way | 00:48 |
| elmiko | etoews: agreed | 00:48 |
| etoews | members is also consistent with what's in the json body | 00:48 |
| cyeoh | etoews: +1 | 00:48 |
| miguelgrinberg | +1 | 00:49 |
| etoews | do we want to try another APIImpact or move on to api-wg proposals? | 00:49 |
| elmiko | probably should move on, only 10mins left | 00:50 |
| stevelle | other agenda items (if any) then circle back? | 00:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | == stevelle | 00:50 |
| etoews | #topic Reviews | 00:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews (Meeting topic: api wg)" | 00:50 | |
| etoews | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-wg,n,z | 00:50 |
| etoews | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133087/ | 00:51 |
| etoews | i just updated my proposal. | 00:51 |
| miguelgrinberg | LGTM | 00:51 |
| etoews | initial feedback is positive | 00:51 |
| etoews | anyone care to bring up another one? | 00:51 |
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| miguelgrinberg | I added the async counterpart, if anyone cares to review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137490/ | 00:52 |
| cyeoh | miguelgrinberg: looks good to me | 00:53 |
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| etoews | me too | 00:53 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: lgtm, one piece of whitespace aside | 00:54 |
| miguelgrinberg | I think we should concetrate on simple statements, and get them merged asap. There's always going to be time to fine tune. | 00:54 |
| etoews | there's a bit of psuedo code in the paragraph | 00:54 |
| etoews | do we want to call it out with a slightly different format? | 00:54 |
| etoews | the only reason i ask is because in the first sentence it ends with the if statement but the next sentence starts with an if statement. | 00:55 |
| etoews | it's just a bit harder for me to parse | 00:56 |
| miguelgrinberg | okay, I'll see if I can condense that, I tend to be wordy sometimes, to leave any possible ambiguity | 00:56 |
| cyeoh | etoews: yea I think things like pseudo code/ rationale should be formatted differently | 00:56 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: +1 | 00:57 |
| miguelgrinberg | okay, I'll reword, remove the whitespace and resubmit later today | 00:57 |
| etoews | #action miguelgrinberg to reword, remove the whitespace and resubmit https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137490/ | 00:58 |
| etoews | thanks everyone! | 01:00 |
| miguelgrinberg | thank you, see you next time | 01:00 |
| elmiko | etoews: thanks for chairing =) | 01:00 |
| etoews | have a good holiday weekend if it's a holiday weekend where you are. | 01:00 |
| elmiko | likewise! | 01:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | cheers | 01:00 |
| cyeoh | etoews: thanks! | 01:00 |
| etoews | have a good surgery if you're having surgery in the next couple of weeks. | 01:00 |
| elmiko | +2! | 01:01 |
| etoews | seriously though cyeoh. all the best. | 01:01 |
| etoews | #endmeeting | 01:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 01:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 27 01:01:22 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 01:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2014/api_wg.2014-11-27-00.01.html | 01:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2014/api_wg.2014-11-27-00.01.txt | 01:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2014/api_wg.2014-11-27-00.01.log.html | 01:01 |
| cyeoh | etoews: thanks. lots of movie watching for me over the next weeks :-) | 01:01 |
| etoews | :) | 01:01 |
| etoews | bye for now. | 01:02 |
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| yamamoto | yawn | 15:04 |
| yamamoto | no l3 meeting today? | 15:04 |
| jschwarz | no l3 meeting? | 15:04 |
| jschwarz | :P | 15:04 |
| yamahata | due to thanksgiving? | 15:04 |
| jschwarz | ahh right | 15:05 |
| Gampel | ok | 15:05 |
| amuller | good, less meetings :) | 15:06 |
| amuller | Thanksgiving, giving us one more thing to thank for | 15:06 |
| jschwarz | I don't need to be thankful for anything ;p | 15:07 |
| jschwarz | hey - i have a free hour! thanks guys! | 15:07 |
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| yamamoto | apparently usa is the whole world | 15:08 |
| yamamoto | good night | 15:09 |
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