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| krotscheck | #startmeeting StoryBoard | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 5 16:00:48 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:00 |
| * krotscheck peers at the bot | 16:00 | |
| yolanda | hi | 16:00 |
| CTtpollard | hello | 16:01 |
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| krotscheck | anteaya mentioned that there were bot problems, so here’s hoping we’re good. | 16:01 |
| krotscheck | Hey there! | 16:01 |
| krotscheck | #topic Actions from last week | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last week (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:01 | |
| anteaya | krotscheck: hi | 16:01 |
| anteaya | anteaya: bots seem to be working right now | 16:01 |
| krotscheck | anteaya: Yay. | 16:01 |
| anteaya | off to a great start | 16:02 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so from last week: I did a bit of pestering fungi for storyboard-dev, and he’s updating the puppet module to accomodate it. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144367/ | 16:02 |
| krotscheck | So as soon as that passes jenkins, people can look at it. | 16:02 |
| krotscheck | Oh, right: Agenda - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Agenda | 16:03 |
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| krotscheck | rcarrilocruz isn’t here, we’ll skip him for now since he’s still investigating socket apis. | 16:03 |
| krotscheck | CTtpollard: Did you manage to ping persia about docs? | 16:03 |
| CTtpollard | I made him aware that you asked of him | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | Cool. | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | persia: You here? | 16:04 |
| CTtpollard | I've only just got back from Holidays today | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | I’ll take silence as a no. | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | I’ve taken a look at documenting the event processing engine, and while trying to set up a data dictionary realized that our data is crazy inconsistent. Thus I’m working on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143744/ to help with that. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | But that’s not ready yet. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | And, honestly, I’m thinking I should table that temporarily because email is now 2 months overdue. | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | Any thoughts on that? | 16:06 |
| yolanda | krotscheck , do you need help on that one? | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: Which one, the data dictionary or the emails? | 16:07 |
| yolanda | data dictionary | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | Yeah, any help would be appreciated. | 16:07 |
| yolanda | or the other if you prefer | 16:07 |
| yolanda | coming back from holiday on wednesday | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | The goal is to make all of our events spit out a consistent set of data that we can work off of. | 16:07 |
| yolanda | do you have some spec for it? | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | For instance: Comments don’t include the relevant story id. This feels like an oversight. | 16:07 |
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| krotscheck | yolanda: The patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143744/ started as a very large battery of tests that proscribe desired behavior. | 16:08 |
| yolanda | actually the commit message is quite accurate | 16:08 |
| yolanda | cool, i can collaborate with that on wed | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | Righto. | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | Neat. thanks. | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | Moving on: | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | #topic Urgent Items: Deployment broken. | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | That’s fixed, I believe. | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items: Deployment broken. (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:09 | |
| krotscheck | #topic User Feedback | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User Feedback (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:10 | |
| yolanda | yes, latest patches went live | 16:10 |
| krotscheck | I just got another from jeblair https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000095 | 16:10 |
| yolanda | mm, seing that as "No title" | 16:10 |
| krotscheck | ANyone have a thought on how to address that? | 16:10 |
| yolanda | ok, that was a bug, now i can see it properly | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | Argh, it’s still doing that? | 16:11 |
| yolanda | looks like, yes | 16:11 |
| jeblair | yolanda: yeah, that sounds like the bug where it takes too long to async load the story data | 16:11 |
| jeblair | (or fails) | 16:11 |
| * krotscheck thought he fixed that. | 16:11 | |
| yolanda | i had firebug disable so i could not see the error :( | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | Yeah, same here. | 16:12 |
| ttx | I think the suggestion on the bug is the right way to fix that: "the link portion of the field should consistently be a navigation link, and only the edit icon should begin editing the field" | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | That UI is starting to get crowded :/ | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | But I agree. | 16:12 |
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| krotscheck | I’ll add a comment to that effect on the bug. | 16:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | hey folks | 16:13 |
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| CTtpollard | hi | 16:13 |
| yolanda | makes sense to me | 16:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | sorry, but tomorrow it's bank holiday and i was leaving early today with wife and baby | 16:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | ! | 16:13 |
| krotscheck | rcarrillocruz: No worries, we’ll catch up with you next week. | 16:13 |
| krotscheck | Any other user feedback? | 16:14 |
| yolanda | krotscheck, actually there is an edit icon next to the project name | 16:14 |
| ttx | yolanda: yes, so this is not adding any extra space | 16:14 |
| yolanda | so clicking that should allow editing of project, but i think it will be still a bit confusing | 16:15 |
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| krotscheck | That’s going to be super interesting to figure out which nuance feels natural. Tabbing from field-to-field, vs clicking, vs. linking.... | 16:15 |
| yolanda | i would expect that all entries in inline task edition behave the same way | 16:15 |
| yolanda | so if you click on task and you can edit it, i would expect the same behaviour for project | 16:15 |
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| krotscheck | I agree. | 16:16 |
| jeblair | i think things that look like hyperlinks should act like them, and things that look like edit buttons should act like those... so i think changing the project link as described will make sense, and perhaps the task "link" should just stop looking like a link and only have an edit button | 16:16 |
| jeblair | i had no idea that you could tab through things and edit without selecting. | 16:17 |
| jeblair | i think that may be an anti-feature | 16:17 |
| ttx | also, it's not that often that you /change/ a project | 16:18 |
| jeblair | oh | 16:18 |
| jeblair | also, everytime i tab through, I'm adding another 'James E. Blair updated "Links to projects are not consistent".' to the history | 16:18 |
| ttx | You add extra tasks to cover extra projects, but changing the project for an existing task ? | 16:18 |
| jeblair | even without changing anything. sorry. i'll file a story for that. | 16:18 |
| ttx | I'd argue it's fione that the edit icon is so small, since swiytching project names is a non-use-case. | 16:19 |
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| krotscheck | So how would you maintain a consistent set of controls, while still accomodating this? Assume that every editable field must behave the same way. | 16:21 |
| ttx | hmm. | 16:21 |
| ttx | I'll admit that switching assignees (or task titlke) will happen much more often. | 16:21 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: accomodating what? are you asking about the tab thing? | 16:21 |
| yolanda | so we could just remove the feature of editing the project of a task | 16:21 |
| ttx | i would still follow the suggestion | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: I’m asking about ttx’s question. | 16:22 |
| yolanda | and project is just a simple hyperlink | 16:22 |
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| ttx | text is a consistent hyperlink, icon triggers quickchange. | 16:22 |
| ttx | (the UI needs to be consistent between logged-in and not-logged-in, and those hyperlinks have values) | 16:22 |
| ttx | value* | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: As for the tabbing being an anti-feature, it’s absolutely magical when you’re entering lots of tasks for a story. | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | And it’s definitely a step up from the multi-click nonsense of expand-to-see-form that we had previously | 16:23 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: yeah, though it breaks expected keyboard navigation behavior, so i wonder if we could try to accomodate both | 16:24 |
| jeblair | story regarding erroneous timeline entries after tabbing out of a field: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000097 | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | What if we make the entire row editable? | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | That is: | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | Everything is a hyperlink. The row has an edit button. If you click it, all fields become editable. | 16:25 |
| krotscheck | Click on save, and the whole thing saves. | 16:25 |
| ttx | krotscheck: that would work | 16:25 |
| krotscheck | that also fixes the story that jeblair just filed. | 16:25 |
| krotscheck | s/fixes/addresses/ | 16:25 |
| ttx | saves icon space for sure | 16:25 |
| yolanda | makes sense to me, actually looks clearer | 16:26 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: would that still be magical enough when entering lots of tasks? | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Entering lots of tasks ends up being a “Here’s a brand new editable row, click on save and we’ll give you a new one” thing. | 16:26 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: gotcha | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | Alright, let’s give that a shot and see how people feel about it. | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck switch task editing to toggleable-by-row. | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | Any other user feedback? | 16:28 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Discussion Topics (Branch Support) | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion Topics (Branch Support) (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:29 | |
| krotscheck | Didn’t we finish this one? | 16:29 |
| ttx | I think we did | 16:29 |
| krotscheck | Cool. | 16:30 |
| ttx | next one is task milestone @ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139626/ | 16:30 |
| ttx | and then I have bug types up at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129267/ | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | Alright, I’ll tag those on the end. I’m pretty sure we’ll get to task milestones. | 16:30 |
| ttx | not a lot of reviews on those specs yet, I'll wait a bit before revving them | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | #topic Paging (jedimike) | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Paging (jedimike) (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:31 | |
| krotscheck | jedimike is not here. | 16:31 |
| yolanda | not sure about jedimike availability, i think he was having some doctor appointment these days | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | #topic i18n | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "i18n (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:31 | |
| krotscheck | Ok, so Aleksey’s been starting to contribute to the api codebase, and he’s done a lot of improvements on basic plumbing. In particular, he did this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142503/ | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | My question is: Is this the right time to have a discussion about i18n? | 16:33 |
| krotscheck | …and to basically decide whether/what our long-term strategy might be. | 16:33 |
| CTtpollard | I'm not sure I know enough about internalization to comment | 16:34 |
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| CTtpollard | or spelling for that matter it seems.... | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | Personally, while I definitely think that adding the translation hooks is a good practice, I’ve yet to hear of anyone wanting to use storyboard in not-english. | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | CTtpollard: Just switch your dictionary ;) | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | Does anyone else have an opinion? | 16:36 |
| yolanda | i'm using spanish or catalan if i have translations available, but i suppose english is de facto language | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: You speak catalan? Neat! | 16:36 |
| yolanda | i'm catalan :) | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: Have you ever worked with an app whose UI and errors are catalan/spanish, but whose user-generated content is english? | 16:37 |
| yolanda | yes, for example i have jenkins in spanish but all tasks, logs, etc...are english | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | How does that work for you? | 16:38 |
| yolanda | it's natural to me and used to that | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | Huhn. | 16:38 |
| yolanda | i see jenkins messages in spanish but i assume that all the content is going to be in english | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | That’s fascinating. I’ve always made the assumption that the UI translation should match the content. | 16:39 |
| yolanda | doesn't need to | 16:39 |
| krotscheck | How important would you rate it? | 16:39 |
| yolanda | well, i assume that is not possible to have content in spanish that is generated by english people, i have grown with that so I don't see that like a problem | 16:40 |
| yolanda | but i'm used to have the UI for ubuntu and all the available apps in spanish because is more natural to me | 16:41 |
| yolanda | also for example the locale is important | 16:41 |
| yolanda | as date formatting, numbers, etc... is different here | 16:41 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: Where would you put internationalization on StoryBoard’s roadmap? | 16:42 |
| ttx | (FTR as far as openstack is concerned, since all content will be in english... I rate it pretty low priority) | 16:42 |
| yolanda | krotscheck, i don't see it like an urgent feature, but what i would do is at least to have it ready | 16:42 |
| yolanda | the more messages you add, the more effort you need to put later to acomodate | 16:43 |
| yolanda | so what i would do is at least to enable gettext as is done in the backend, so all messages are ready to be translated, but we only have english | 16:43 |
| krotscheck | That seems fair. How about we add this to the roadmap in the “unplanned” section? | 16:44 |
| jeblair | i think it's important for storyboard to have it eventually, but i don't think it's an early priority. i would put it in mvp 1.3.1 or later. | 16:44 |
| krotscheck | Or should this get mapped to a specific version? | 16:44 |
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| * krotscheck is not-so-subtly trying to make yolanda do core-like roadmap things :D | 16:45 | |
| yolanda | heh :) | 16:46 |
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| yolanda | so i think jeblair comment makes sense | 16:46 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, I feel like everyone’s in the “not now, but let’s keep it in mind as we move forward." | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | yolanda: can you do me a favor and add it to the roadmap? | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Roadmap | 16:47 |
| yolanda | sure | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | Thanks | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion (python3) | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion (python3) (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:47 | |
| krotscheck | Similar thing: Aleksey did a bunch of work here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142733/ | 16:48 |
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| krotscheck | Right now we’re on 2.7 | 16:48 |
| krotscheck | Does it make sense for us to aggressively upgrade python? | 16:48 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: the thing with that is that unless we are actually testing under python3, it will bitrot | 16:49 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Point. | 16:49 |
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| jeblair | so i would say if someone wants to fix all the things to the point where we can enable python 3.4 tests, then sure, rip the bandaid off | 16:50 |
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| krotscheck | So we care about 3.3? | 16:50 |
| krotscheck | s/So/Do | 16:51 |
| ttx | I'd say no | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | What I’m hearing is: “If someone wants to put in the effort, great, otherwise let’s keep shipping features" | 16:52 |
| jeblair | yep | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | Ok, moving on. | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion (Task Milestones): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139626 | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | I may have broken the bot. | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion (Task Milestones): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139626 (Meeting topic: StoryBoard)" | 16:53 | |
| krotscheck | There we go | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | ttx? What’s up | 16:53 |
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| ttx | That once was updated to build on top of the approved task branch spec | 16:54 |
| krotscheck | Just a rebase right? | 16:54 |
| ttx | yes, still has 3 +1s | 16:54 |
| ttx | so you might want to review it | 16:55 |
| ttx | that said, we already have a sane pipeline of unimplemented features | 16:55 |
| krotscheck | We do. | 16:55 |
| ttx | so I don't think reviewing that is top prio | 16:55 |
| krotscheck | But I will | 16:55 |
| ttx | same for the story types spec | 16:55 |
| ttx | That one was heavily rewritten to be more generally applicable and less hardcoded | 16:56 |
| ttx | since that's the spirit of the times | 16:56 |
| krotscheck | awesome. | 16:56 |
| krotscheck | Are you comfortable switching topics to Open Discussion? | 16:56 |
| ttx | I basically distilled the types we need for openstack into a series of properties | 16:56 |
| yolanda | ttx, i added a comment about task mutation | 16:56 |
| ttx | yolanda: yep, saw that | 16:57 |
| ttx | yolanda: sounds valid to me | 16:57 |
| yolanda | so it may be possible that not all states can mutate to others | 16:57 |
| ttx | those properties can be combined to build custom types | 16:57 |
| * krotscheck has his interest piqued. | 16:57 | |
| ttx | so overall it feels a lot more flexible | 16:58 |
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| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129267/ | 16:58 |
| ttx | for ref ^ | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | 2 minute warning | 16:58 |
| ttx | krotscheck: it started as an alternative implementation, but then I liked it enough to replace the original one. | 16:59 |
| ttx | I'm done, we can switch to open discussion | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | ttx: That sounds like exactly the kind of thing that happens when people write specs, and why we like them so much :) | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Naah, we’re out of time. | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 5 17:00:04 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-01-05-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-01-05-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-01-05-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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