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| pc_m | hi tom | 16:02 |
|---|---|---|
| vikram | pc_m: hi | 16:02 |
| pc_m | vikram: hi | 16:03 |
| tmorin | hi everyone | 16:03 |
| pc_m | giving some time for people to connect... | 16:03 |
| pc_m | hi tmorin | 16:03 |
| vikram | ok | 16:03 |
| matrohon | hi | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | hi | 16:03 |
| Aish | hi | 16:03 |
| ajmiller | Hello | 16:03 |
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| pc_m | matrohon: sridhar_ram: Aish: ajmiller: john_a_joyce: hi! | 16:04 |
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| john_a_joyce | hi pc_m | 16:04 |
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| pc_m | krtaylor: hi | 16:04 |
| pc_m | hi Yanping | 16:04 |
| yanping | Hi Paul | 16:04 |
| pc_m | lets get rolling... | 16:05 |
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| pc_m | #startmeeting vpnaas | 16:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 2 16:05:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is pc_m. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vpnaas)" | 16:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vpnaas' | 16:05 |
| pc_m | Agenda is on the wiki: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/VPNaaS | 16:06 |
| pc_m | #topic announcements | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: vpnaas)" | 16:06 | |
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| pc_m | Looks like Liberty 1 is 6/22-26, Liberty 2 7/27-31 | 16:06 |
| ajmiller | Wow, that's coming right up.. | 16:07 |
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| pc_m | As usual, please look at the bugs and reviews for vpn (see the wiki for links). | 16:07 |
| pc_m | I won't cover them today, we can discuss in open discussion, as time allows. | 16:08 |
| pc_m | #topic BGP/MPLS and Edge VPN | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BGP/MPLS and Edge VPN (Meeting topic: vpnaas)" | 16:08 | |
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| pc_m | So the question here is whether either/both of these can/should be combined into the general VPN (IPSec) w.r.t. how the user will use these. | 16:09 |
| tmorin | pc_m: good summary | 16:09 |
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| pc_m | Should we try to make a unified API that can cover each of these? Does it make sense? | 16:09 |
| vikram | pc_m:+1 | 16:09 |
| angela-s | pc_m +1 | 16:09 |
| john_a_joyce | I believe it would make sense | 16:09 |
| dhruvdhody | pc_m:+1 | 16:10 |
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| tmorin | the issue I see is that, while we could come up with common APi object... | 16:10 |
| tmorin | ... the workflows will be totally different | 16:10 |
| john_a_joyce | at least there are common elements to the two API proposals and with the current VPNaaS | 16:10 |
| vikram | IMHO we should have a unified API but need to check how realistic it could be | 16:10 |
| pc_m | So, I'll open the floor to let people discuss their thoughts... | 16:10 |
| tmorin | this leads me to believe that a unified API may not necessarily add value | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | pc_m: +1 for unified API, among class of VPNs | 16:11 |
| tmorin | and might even increase confusion | 16:11 |
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| ajmiller | pc_m: As part of this it would be great to gather some use cases, that might help guide whether it makes sense for a unified API, or separate APIs | 16:11 |
| pc_m | tmorin: Can you elaborate?? | 16:11 |
| pc_m | ajmiller: +1000 I myself am shaky on the understanding of each. | 16:11 |
| tmorin | yes | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | if IPSec is a L3 VPN that connects tenant networks to different remote networks.. it would make sense to unify | 16:11 |
| john_a_joyce | IMO - there are two distinct elements of the APIs - the signaling of the routes and the details of the connection | 16:11 |
| tmorin | in the use case and workflow in the BGP VPN API that we propose, the tenant is not independent, he cannot build the VPN himself | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | but for L2 VPN .. we need one unified API for L2 VPN, IMO | 16:12 |
| tmorin | he depends on the provider and cloud operator to first create this VPN | 16:12 |
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| tmorin | this is completely different from IPSec, or SSL, VPNs | 16:12 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: so your API is more geared to how to signal the routes? | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | john_a_joyce: +1 | 16:12 |
| tmorin | the acronyms are the same, but the model behing is very different | 16:12 |
| angela-s | tmorin: that is the same for edge vpn, it is not a tenant role | 16:12 |
| sridhar_ram | that is how dmvpn data model is emerging as well | 16:13 |
| tmorin | john_a_joyce: not really, our API allows to describe to which BGP VPN a tenant network is connected | 16:13 |
| pcarver | At the risk of broadening the topic even further, I just created an RFE for ML3, modular layer 3 similar in concept to ML2. It seems to me that BGP and IPSec/SSL VPNs have a close tie in to the concept of routers. | 16:13 |
| tmorin | our API does not dictate how the routes are signalled | 16:14 |
| tmorin | which component does this is determined by the driver/backend architecture | 16:14 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: sure and you don't get into too much detail on how the connection/tunnel is created | 16:14 |
| tmorin | indeed | 16:14 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: but you are indicating the routing relationship i.e. VPN - to network | 16:15 |
| tmorin | yes | 16:15 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: so that is what I really like about your API - it is simple at that level | 16:15 |
| tmorin | setting up so-called "tunnels" is most often not even done at all | 16:15 |
| tmorin | yes, this is the goal | 16:15 |
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| tmorin | if other things (e.g. BGP peerings) need to be automated, we think this is a different issue to be handled with another component | 16:16 |
| tmorin | may or may not even by in openstack | 16:16 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: but when you get in the semantics of the connection itself then it merges with the other work edge, VPNaaS and maybe dmvpn | 16:16 |
| tmorin | it may, but as I said, the workflow may or may not converge | 16:16 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: could creating the "tunnel" (or the equivalent) and pushing the routes could be separated ? | 16:17 |
| tmorin | I don't think they do for IPSec | 16:17 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: yes | 16:17 |
| john_a_joyce | sridhar_ram: that is exactly what I was thinking | 16:17 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: sometimes you don't even have a tunnel in the implementation, so yes, for sure | 16:17 |
| john_a_joyce | IMO that gives a path to convergence | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: I see. Still we need something to model the VPN construct | 16:18 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: Here is my worry .. we might end up with an explosion of tons of APIs for each and every VPN type | 16:18 |
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| john_a_joyce | that would be bad | 16:18 |
| pc_m | sridhar_ram: +1 | 16:18 |
| tmorin | tons I don't know | 16:19 |
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| vikram | from the user view this is not good | 16:19 |
| tmorin | and if the workflow behind is stronly distinct, having more than one makes sense | 16:19 |
| angela-s | sridhar_ram: +1 | 16:19 |
| vikram | having separate api for diff usecase | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | Can the tunnel creation part atleast for these PE based VPNs be extraploated to something common ? | 16:19 |
| pcarver | isn't the most important thing from the user's perspective the networks and routers in Neutron/OpenStack that they want to add connectivity too? The mechanism is secondary. | 16:19 |
| tmorin | vikram: no, i believe it makes sense to have different APIs if the use case and workflows are different enough | 16:19 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: | 16:20 |
| pcarver | BGP MPLS vs IPSec/SSL are just the details of how to connect | 16:20 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: again, with BGP VPN, we don't need to instantiate tunnel objects at all | 16:20 |
| tmorin | nothing to converge here | 16:20 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: we should look at the high level what is common | 16:20 |
| sridhar_ram | pcarver: Associating the VPN use are creating to tenant networks is understood.. IPSec has a working model and it works well IMO | 16:20 |
| tmorin | three letters :) | 16:21 |
| john_a_joyce | i think we are agreeing the tunnel part is likely not common | 16:21 |
| tmorin | john_a_joyce: three letters may be the only thing in common (V,P,N) | 16:21 |
| john_a_joyce | but the association or networks/routes to VPNs can probably be made common | 16:21 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: But there shd be some representation of the "entity" that you want neutron network to talk to .. | 16:21 |
| pcarver | sridhar_ram: That's good. My point is that it should work consistently. If it works well for IPSec then we should see if it can work the same way for MPLS. | 16:21 |
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| tmorin | sridhar_ram: well, it does not necessarily belong to this API | 16:22 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: it can be config driver, or an admin-only API if you want to API-drive it | 16:22 |
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| tmorin | config-driven sorry | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: in IPSec site-connection IMO represents the what is entity being created and how routes are pushed | 16:23 |
| tmorin | john_a_joyce: yes, possibly | 16:23 |
| tmorin | the current model for IPSec (associating to routers) does not work well for l2 BGP VPNs (E-VPN) | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: thats exactly where some of need to be educated :)' | 16:24 |
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| sridhar_ram | *some of us | 16:24 |
| vikram | Hi All, I think we are off track.. The discussion was about converging edge-vpn and BGPVPN API's. What's the conclusion on this? | 16:24 |
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| tmorin | sridhar_ram: well, quite simply: if you extend an Ethernet network through a bgpvpn, you don't want to go through an IP stack | 16:25 |
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| john_a_joyce | i think the majority think we need to try harder to converge | 16:25 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: the admin vs tenant API restriction is well taken ... it can be factored in the API permission | 16:25 |
| john_a_joyce | trying to find the common parts | 16:25 |
| pcarver | tmorin: I don't think it's just some letters in common. I think that the most basic aspect from a tenant view point is that I've got some networks here and some networks there and I want to connect them. Ideally the only difference in the "how" is what data elements I need to supply in order to state "which network do I want to connect to" | 16:25 |
| sridhar_ram | pcarver: +1 | 16:26 |
| john_a_joyce | pcarver: +1 | 16:26 |
| pc_m | pcarver: +1 | 16:26 |
| angela-s | pcarver: +1 | 16:26 |
| vikram | pcarever: +1 | 16:26 |
| tmorin | pcarver: well, how the vpn network is created is not always done the same, hence different workflows | 16:26 |
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| sridhar_ram | tmorin: then should we work on a common L2 VPN framework first | 16:26 |
| pcarver | tmorin: no disagreement on that. But I don't think that's important to the tenant. | 16:27 |
| sridhar_ram | and then factor in different L2 VPN instantiations off that ? | 16:27 |
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| tmorin | having converged API object but a different workflow will *not* be user friendly | 16:27 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: do you mean the details on the transport and signalling protocols? | 16:27 |
| pcarver | The tenant wants to know what identifiers do I need to supply to uniquily specify what network. | 16:27 |
| pcarver | Not how the plubming works | 16:27 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: i think this part of the discussion is true for both l2vpn and l3vpn | 16:28 |
| john_a_joyce | what seems common to me is that you are conveying which networks are inter-connected in all the proposals | 16:28 |
| tmorin | pcarver: for ipsec VPNs, the tenants needs to know about the plumbing to configure its endpoints | 16:28 |
| tmorin | john_a_joyce: yes | 16:28 |
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| tmorin | john_a_joyce: that could also be expressed through a generic poliy framework by the way | 16:29 |
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| matrohon | the only components that converge seem to be a VPN dummy object, its type and object we can associate to it (depending on the type) no? | 16:29 |
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| tmorin | pcarver: for ipsec, the tenant creates and configures the plumbing -- that's a major difference | 16:30 |
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| sridhar_ram | Having a class of VPN created by Admin and used by Tenant can be abstracted | 16:31 |
| pcarver | tmorin: It's been a while since I configured VPNs on Cisco routers (and that's the last place I dealt with IPSec) but even then pretty much all I wanted to know was what 3-4 bits of data did I need to plug into the router config to connect to my peer. | 16:31 |
| pc_m | could the vpn be characterized by its endpoints and the "type" of connection? | 16:32 |
| tmorin | pcarver: yes, indeed, this is the plumbing part that has to be at the hand of the tenant | 16:32 |
| pc_m | then for each type, we have API for the details? | 16:32 |
| pc_m | For IPSec one specifies the peer IP, peer CIDRs (of remote subnets), and then IPSec features via IKE/IPSec policies | 16:33 |
| pcarver | tmorin: I don't think I'm disagreeing with you much. Just trying to frame the "user story" | 16:33 |
| pcarver | The tenant will certainly need to supply different data elements for IPSec vs MPLS | 16:34 |
| tmorin | I fear the common part will boil down to very trivial things | 16:34 |
| tmorin | hence my skepticism | 16:34 |
| pc_m | tmorin: Can the endpoints be specified as part of the common part? | 16:34 |
| tmorin | at least for what is common bw bgp vpns and ipsec vpns | 16:34 |
| tmorin | maybe more convergence can exist for dmvpn | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | pc_m: IPSec is can put IKE/IPSec/remote-IP in one bucket and put { local tenant networks, remote CIDRs } .. thats a even clear mental model | 16:35 |
| pcarver | but in either case their desired workflow really centers around determining the minimal set of required data elements to designate the near and far networks | 16:35 |
| tmorin | i'd be happy to hear more on the workflow proposed around dmvpn | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | If we can come up with something similar for other VPN types.. | 16:35 |
| tmorin | pc_m: which endpoints ? | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: sure, we will go into dmvpn shortly.. | 16:35 |
| john_a_joyce | sridhar_ram: thats exactly the mental model I have as well | 16:35 |
| tmorin | pcarver: yes, but this is the last step of the workflow, the vpn creation step differs highly (between ipsec and bgp provider vpns) | 16:36 |
| pc_m | tmorin: Like for IPsec, it's the peer and local IP (or maybe the peer and local subnets?) | 16:36 |
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| sridhar_ram | tmorin: then, atleast among the VPNs created in PE routers we need one model | 16:38 |
| tmorin | pc_m: you mean BGP peer ? | 16:38 |
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| vikram | pc_m: For BGPVPN yes we need to specify bgp peer ip | 16:39 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: this is a possibility, but not knowing enough on DMVPN, i don't know yet | 16:39 |
| tmorin | vikram: I don't believe so, or at least not in the same API | 16:39 |
| pc_m | thinking out loud... is there a way to specify the two networks being connected up, and then specify the connection details separately, based on the type of VPN? | 16:39 |
| tmorin | vikram: the BGP peer is not setup per VPN | 16:40 |
| tmorin | vikram: different bgp speakers may also use different ones | 16:40 |
| vikram | tmorin: but we need to specify the end-points between which we need to have a VPN connection right? | 16:40 |
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| tmorin | vikram: if you want to automate this, you can do it with another API, or static, or part of server automation tooling | 16:40 |
| tmorin | vikram: what do you mean by endpoints , | 16:41 |
| tmorin | ? | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: DMVPN is created on tenant routers for tenant networks .. it kinda a extenstion of IPSec (instead of site to site it is multi-site) | 16:41 |
| vikram | tmorin: 2 sites which user want to connect | 16:41 |
| tmorin | pc_m: yes, there could be, but what about the value if the workflows end up so different | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: bringing in BGP speaker differences in API discussion doesn't make sense | 16:42 |
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| tmorin | vikram: the sites which the user want to connect are not the BGP peers, there may be more than 2, and its ok if there are not known by the API, they will learned via BGP routes | 16:42 |
| pc_m | tmorin: I guess it gets back to (for me) understanding the various use cases for each type of VPN. | 16:42 |
| * pc_m which I sorely lack understanding of | 16:43 | |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: does the tenant have to configure routers to connect (non Openstack) physical sites, or is it at the hand of its provider ? | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: there is no non-openstack interaction involved for DMVPN.. | 16:44 |
| vikram | tmorin: got it | 16:44 |
| john_a_joyce | tmorin: if by workflow you mean the backend implementation then I don't follow the argument since that will be very different anyway | 16:44 |
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| ajmiller | pc_m tmorin: That gets to the heart of it: We need a common understanding of the various use cases, how tenants and operators configure them. Who does what, and how. | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: if needed you can connect multiple openstack tenant routers in a DMVPN mesh | 16:44 |
| vikram | tmorin: actually i meant sites to be connected.. | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | no PE router involved | 16:44 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: DMVPN can be used outside any Openstack, right ?? | 16:44 |
| john_a_joyce | there might be reference implementations in tree and some out and of course many that rely on a controller to render the network | 16:45 |
| tmorin | john_a_joyce: no, I essentially means: who creates and controls the parameters for the VPN | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: yes, other remote sites could be non-openstack sites -- imagine a Cisco branch site | 16:45 |
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| john_a_joyce | tmorin: I am missing the point a bit then - the parameters of the VPN should be in the API | 16:46 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: ok, but you can also want to connect an existing "WAN" DMVPN to some Openstack VM/network, right ? | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | john_a_joyce: that in-built control-plane vs sdn controller option is same like any other neutron driver | 16:47 |
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| tmorin | john_a_joyce: yes, but in the ipsec case controlled by the tenant, and in the bgp vpn case controlled by the admin | 16:47 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: that existing "WAN" DMVPN node is not under the administrative preview of OpenStack | 16:47 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: +1 | 16:47 |
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| tmorin | sridhar_ram: ok, for BGP VPNs we want the ability to interconnect with existing WAN BGP VPNs, and need to bring this into view of Neutron | 16:48 |
| john_a_joyce | but if it is simply an issue or roles that is preventing convergence then that is easily handled | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: I understand that unique nature and its different compared to neutron-router based VPN (IPSec, DMVPN) | 16:49 |
| * pc_m time check 10 mins | 16:49 | |
| tmorin | john_a_joyce: can be handled, but workflows will be so different that I'm challenging that converging (ipsec and bgp vpns) will bring much value (and might even increase confusion) | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: we should think hard to model that interconnection of existing WAN VPN (i'm intentionally skipping BGP) to neutron networks | 16:50 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: ok, good to know that our understanding is that DMVPN would be closer to IPSec that bgpvpn | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: BGP should be just one type | 16:51 |
| john_a_joyce | pc_m: I think we might need a specific proposal to further this discussion | 16:51 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: not sure I follow you | 16:51 |
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| sridhar_ram | if we can model BGP related constucts to similar to IKE (which is IPSec specific) .. | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | and have a generic "interconnect" API for vpn-id to neutron network id mapping | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | that later will be same for many differnent WAN / PE Router based VPNs | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | ? | 16:52 |
| pc_m | folk, we're starting to run shy of time here... let's focus on what we should do forward going to try to close on this (if possible :) | 16:53 |
| john_a_joyce | Sridhar_ram: +1 | 16:53 |
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| pc_m | sridhar_ram: +1 | 16:53 |
| pc_m | So... | 16:53 |
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| pc_m | I've created an etherpad, so we can place our thoughts... | 16:53 |
| pc_m | #info https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/vpn-flavors | 16:53 |
| vikram | pc_m:+1 | 16:53 |
| sridhar_ram | pc_m: good idea | 16:53 |
| pc_m | Can someone volunteer to plop down use cases for each of the VPN types? | 16:54 |
| pc_m | (not one person, but several people for each flavor of VPN) | 16:54 |
| sridhar_ram | I can pitch in for neutron-router based VPN | 16:54 |
| vikram | Edge VPN i can take up | 16:55 |
| pc_m | sridhar_ram: thanks | 16:55 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: this is doable, but I fear that the difference in the first steps of the workflows would create confusion | 16:55 |
| pc_m | vikram: nice | 16:55 |
| pc_m | I think it'll help our shared understanding... | 16:55 |
| pcarver | I'll schedule some time with one of our MPLS gurus and try to consolidate his thoughts into input for the Etherpad | 16:55 |
| tmorin | yes, that was a useful discussion | 16:55 |
| tmorin | thanks pc_m for hosting it | 16:55 |
| john_a_joyce | thanks pc_m | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | pc_m: pcarver: thanks! | 16:56 |
| tmorin | pcarver: +1 | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | i'm learning here as well.. ! | 16:56 |
| tmorin | will contribute based on what we already have written in our current spec | 16:56 |
| ajmiller | It would also be great if people could add pointers for useful background information, like wiki pages, RFCs, etc.... | 16:56 |
| ajmiller | I'll contribute to the extent I can. | 16:56 |
| pc_m | yes thanks everyone. Let's keep this going and see if we can come up with a proposal to share | 16:56 |
| tmorin | there are rfc pointers in our spec | 16:56 |
| tmorin | 4364 and 7432 mostly | 16:56 |
| ajmiller | tmorin cool | 16:57 |
| vikram | ajmiller: sure | 16:57 |
| tmorin | makes good fireplace reading ;) | 16:57 |
| pc_m | ajmiller: pcarver thanks! | 16:57 |
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| tmorin | bye folfs | 16:57 |
| tmorin | folks | 16:57 |
| pc_m | I have been having trouble sleeping at night... | 16:57 |
| ajmiller | bye | 16:57 |
| dhruvdhody | bye | 16:57 |
| john_a_joyce | bye | 16:57 |
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| pc_m | thanks everyone! | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | tmorin: RFC are always good for bedtime ! | 16:57 |
| pc_m | #endmeeting | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:57 | |
| sridhar_ram | bye | 16:57 |
| tmorin | pc_m: ;) | 16:57 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 2 16:57:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vpnaas/2015/vpnaas.2015-06-02-16.05.html | 16:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vpnaas/2015/vpnaas.2015-06-02-16.05.txt | 16:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vpnaas/2015/vpnaas.2015-06-02-16.05.log.html | 16:57 |
| tmorin | sridhar_ram: ;) | 16:57 |
| vikram | bye | 16:57 |
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| alexsyip | Hi, is anyone here for a Congress meeting? | 17:11 |
| jwy | i'm here! | 17:11 |
| masahito | Hi, I'm here for a Congress meeting. | 17:11 |
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| pballand | hi | 17:12 |
| pballand | don’t know where thinrichs is | 17:12 |
| alexsyip | Ok, let’s start | 17:13 |
| alexsyip | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:14 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 2 17:14:13 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alexsyip. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:14 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:14 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:14 |
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| alexsyip | I don’t know of any announcements, so let’s go through status updates. | 17:14 |
| alexsyip | masahito: would you like to lead this week? | 17:14 |
| masahito | ok | 17:15 |
| masahito | I started to fix a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/congress/+bug/1435616 | 17:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1435616 in congress "missing test coverage for datasource api code" [Medium,New] - Assigned to Masahito Muroi (muroi-masahito) | 17:16 |
| alexsyip | Great, do you need any help or code reviews or anything? | 17:16 |
| masahito | and to understand congress codes itself I reviewed codes in gerrit. | 17:17 |
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| masahito | Currently nothing. | 17:17 |
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| alexsyip | ok let us know if there’s anything you need. | 17:18 |
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| masahito | it's my status. | 17:18 |
| alexsyip | jwy: do you have any updates for this week? | 17:18 |
| masahito | ok, thanks. | 17:18 |
| jwy | been answering some questions from Yali related to the policy abstraction idea Tianran had presented during the design summit | 17:19 |
| alexsyip | How have things been going with that project? | 17:19 |
| jwy | working at getting the functional specification completed because there were some questions from the latest reviews of it | 17:19 |
| jwy | some design details missing | 17:20 |
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| alexsyip | Ok is there anything we can help with? | 17:20 |
| jwy | if there's other people who would like to review it, that'd be cool :) | 17:21 |
| jwy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168539/ | 17:21 |
| jwy | Yali is uploading a new revision soon | 17:22 |
| jwy | will remind her | 17:22 |
| jwy | i don't have any other updates | 17:22 |
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| alexsyip | ok thanks | 17:23 |
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| alexsyip | I’ll take a look today. | 17:23 |
| alexsyip | pballand: do you have an update? | 17:24 |
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| pballand | I’m just starting to ramp back up on congress development | 17:24 |
| pballand | probably going to start with a couple small bug fixes | 17:24 |
| alexsyip | Ok, sounds good. | 17:24 |
| pballand | nothing concrete yet | 17:24 |
| alexsyip | Time and I spent some time trying to enable our tempests test in jenkins, but so far, no progress. | 17:25 |
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| alexsyip | Tim updated my patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180726/ and got some additional feedback from project-infra team. | 17:26 |
| alexsyip | Progress is slow because we can’t test this change without going through codereview with the infra team. | 17:26 |
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| alexsyip | I was also working on a test for adding duplicate rules to the database, but I ran into a tempest test failure related to keystone that I’m trying to figure out. | 17:27 |
| alexsyip | That’s my update. | 17:27 |
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| alexsyip | Does anyone else have something to discuss? | 17:28 |
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| alexsyip | Ok, let’s wrap up then. | 17:30 |
| alexsyip | Until next time. | 17:30 |
| alexsyip | #endmeeting | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 2 17:30:27 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-06-02-17.14.html | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-06-02-17.14.txt | 17:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-06-02-17.14.log.html | 17:30 |
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| anteaya | alexsyip: what is your irc channel? | 17:57 |
| alexsyip | anteaya: what do you mean? | 17:57 |
| anteaya | if I want to talk to congress people | 17:58 |
| anteaya | what irc channel should I go to? | 17:58 |
| pballand | anteaya: #congress | 17:58 |
| alexsyip | ah yes | 17:58 |
| alexsyip | pballand is right. | 17:58 |
| anteaya | thank you | 17:59 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 2 19:00:41 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
| terrylhowe | o/ | 19:00 |
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| briancurtin | if you're here for the SDK meeting, say hi | 19:01 |
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| Caleb-- | hi | 19:01 |
| briancurtin | etoews: did you end up putting together an agenda? i just came out of that interview | 19:01 |
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| etoews | o/ | 19:01 |
| etoews | yep | 19:01 |
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| briancurtin | on my side of things, i'm just trying to clear out the review queue before digging into any new work (plugins next) | 19:03 |
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| briancurtin | etoews: what all is necessary to get messaging moving along? do you need help beyond reviews or do you pretty much have it? | 19:06 |
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| etoews | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187020/ | 19:06 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 19:07 |
| etoews | i replied to a few comments from terrylhowe. did you want to discuss those further terry? | 19:07 |
| terrylhowe | I just saw your reply. might take a while to digest | 19:07 |
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| etoews | understood. | 19:08 |
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| etoews | can i offer a digestif? :) | 19:09 |
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| stevelle | etoews: I think I am starting to see how you ended up with that model, just trying to eliminate other solutions to get there. | 19:10 |
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| terrylhowe | I see your points. Makes me wonder if we should have a Message resource at all. | 19:11 |
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| terrylhowe | or if create_messages should just be a method of queue | 19:11 |
| terrylhowe | Is there something resourcey to do with the thing? | 19:12 |
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| etoews | terrylhowe: all sorts of stuff https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zaqar/specs/api/v1#Messages | 19:13 |
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| terrylhowe | okay, fair enough | 19:14 |
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| terrylhowe | do we need to cut a release soon with this stuff so it is ready for the demo? | 19:14 |
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| etoews | i'm not expecting that. i can have the student install from git. | 19:15 |
| etoews | s/student/students/ | 19:15 |
| etoews | pip install from git that is | 19:15 |
| terrylhowe | excellent, not sure what state things are overall | 19:16 |
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| terrylhowe | anything else on that? | 19:17 |
| etoews | nope. i expect the development on the stuff i need will come down to the wire. i think a pip install from git is the only reasonable way. | 19:17 |
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| stevelle | one more question on the messages resource. | 19:18 |
| stevelle | 'age' property decays as soon as the message leaves the server, is there any reason to also track an optional timestamp property for when the message was retrieved from the server to allow true age to be tracked by clients? maybe a calculated expiry based on ttl, and and the timestamp? | 19:18 |
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| etoews | i'm not 100% sure what you're asking. are you talking about adding another property to Message? | 19:20 |
| stevelle | I guess it would be a transient property | 19:21 |
| stevelle | I suspect it just wouldn't be needed | 19:22 |
| etoews | without a well defined use case and some feedback from a user, i'm reluctant to add any transient props. | 19:22 |
| etoews | ys | 19:22 |
| etoews | ya | 19:22 |
| etoews | should we move on? | 19:23 |
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| stevelle | please | 19:24 |
| stevelle | go ahead | 19:24 |
| etoews | i'd also like to talk about Add Heat resource support #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181063/ | 19:26 |
| etoews | is qiming around? | 19:26 |
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| etoews | i don't know that i've ever seen him on irc... | 19:27 |
| terrylhowe | I haven’t | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | he was in yesterday asking about functional testing, but it was pretty late US time i believe | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | etoews: i need to think about that exception versus empty list since that call is a combination of things now | 19:28 |
| etoews | well anyway...i ran the functional tests on his latest patch set 5 and they failed with the same error as on patch set 4. | 19:28 |
| briancurtin | it was originally returning None which it cant do | 19:28 |
| etoews | it would be good if someone else could run the functional test TestStack against his work, to double check. | 19:29 |
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| briancurtin | i'll check it out, i hadn't gotten around to running functional tests myself in teh mad rush up to the summit | 19:29 |
| etoews | briancurtin: ya. that needs to be resolved too. | 19:29 |
| etoews | understandable. | 19:29 |
| etoews | i'm just not going to have anymore time until after the qcon workshop to put towards that review and functional testing. | 19:30 |
| briancurtin | etoews: i'll take a look, you go back to doing the messaging stuff | 19:31 |
| etoews | thx | 19:31 |
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| terrylhowe | should be able to run ‘check experimental’ still | 19:32 |
| terrylhowe | there, give it 25 minutes or so | 19:33 |
| etoews | terrylhowe: cool! | 19:33 |
| terrylhowe | I have a change out in project-config for a non-voting check | 19:33 |
| etoews | that's awesome. thx for doing that. | 19:34 |
| terrylhowe | hope everyone is okay with the 25 minute delay on patches | 19:34 |
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| etoews | where do i go to vote? | 19:34 |
| etoews | :) | 19:34 |
| terrylhowe | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184621/ | 19:34 |
| terrylhowe | I don’t want to hijack the heat discussion though | 19:35 |
| etoews | i'm also +1 on the non-voting. too many transient failures when it comes to devstack. | 19:35 |
| etoews | not hijacking. i'd say this is very relevant to the heat discussion. | 19:36 |
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| terrylhowe | anythoughts on the stack_name and stack_id in the resource? | 19:37 |
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| etoews | so if you were to add those to Resource, wouldn't they get serialized to json if you did a resource.create()? | 19:39 |
| terrylhowe | hmm, probably. They shouldn’t | 19:40 |
| etoews | in this particular case, it's a moot point. http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-orchestration-v1.html#stack-resources | 19:40 |
| etoews | in general that's still an issue any time we put extra props on a resource. | 19:41 |
| etoews | then you wind up have to do a custom json encoder | 19:42 |
| terrylhowe | I think there is special code briancurtin added to covert props of type=resource to resource_id in the body | 19:42 |
| briancurtin | yeah there's just a quick loop through the _attrs converting them back and forth to IDs, or something like that iirc | 19:42 |
| etoews | i expect that's fine in most cases | 19:42 |
| etoews | i don't trust the APIs though | 19:43 |
| briancurtin | yeah, no resource instance should hit that (would blow up anyway in setting up the URL) | 19:43 |
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| briancurtin | i might be missing something, but is there an issue that has happened or would appear to happen around those? | 19:48 |
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| etoews | briancurtin: there was some back and forth on those when it came to modeling Stack. | 19:51 |
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| etoews | we wound up with | 19:51 |
| etoews | name_attribute = 'stack_name' | 19:51 |
| etoews | name = resource.prop('stack_name') | 19:51 |
| briancurtin | oh, that | 19:52 |
| briancurtin | i was thinking when you do resource.prop("blah", type=mytype.MyType) | 19:52 |
| etoews | heat is different in that the stack name is unique and you can use it to get redirect to the id. | 19:52 |
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| etoews | /v1/{tenant_id}/stacks/{stack_name}/{stack_id} | 19:53 |
| briancurtin | i guess i'll have to refresh on that | 19:53 |
| * flaper87 just saw Zaqar being mentioned here. Are you guys adding support for it in openstacksdk? (there's some support in the zaqarclient repo) | 19:53 | |
| flaper87 | (sorry for the hijack) | 19:53 |
| * flaper87 stfu | 19:53 | |
| etoews | flaper87: i'm adding support for it to the openstacksdk | 19:54 |
| briancurtin | flaper87: yep, there's some in there now and building up | 19:54 |
| etoews | flaper87: i saw the message on the list. your intern should work on the openstacksdk and openstackclient instead :) | 19:54 |
| flaper87 | etoews: briancurtin awesome, not sure if you're aware of https://github.com/openstack/python-zaqarclient/blob/master/setup.cfg#L47-L54 | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | FWIW, zaqarclient is a pure python library with no CLI support | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | we've been relying on the openstacksdk since the get-go | 19:55 |
| etoews | flaper87: cool. | 19:55 |
| stevemar | etoews, ++ | 19:56 |
| etoews | flaper87: what does code from your github link do exactly? | 19:56 |
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| flaper87 | etoews: those are the entry points that openstacksdk uses to load the zaqar code that has support for CLI actions | 19:57 |
| terrylhowe | openstackclient entry points rather | 19:57 |
| flaper87 | terrylhowe: ah, mmh, yeah. That. | 19:57 |
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| etoews | flaper87: cool. when does that land in osc (openstackclient)? | 19:58 |
| terrylhowe | people would just install zaquarclient and it will show up | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | etoews: we could move that code there, I guess. That code landed when incubation was still a thing | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | but yeah, if openstackclient is install and ppl install zaqarclient, that will just show up | 19:59 |
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| etoews | i had no idea. | 19:59 |
| stevemar | etoews, magic of entry points | 19:59 |
| etoews | i'll try that | 19:59 |
| briancurtin | time's up for the meeting, can head back to -sdks to continue. thanks all! | 20:00 |
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| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 2 20:00:05 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-06-02-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-06-02-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-06-02-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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