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| jroll | . | 04:58 |
|---|---|---|
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| devananda | hi folks! | 05:00 |
| devananda | #startmeeting ironic | 05:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 23 05:00:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 05:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 05:00 |
| devananda | who's around? | 05:00 |
| mrda | o/ | 05:00 |
| jroll | ohai \o | 05:00 |
| naohirot | o/ | 05:01 |
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| devananda | the agenda, as usual, is here: | 05:01 |
| devananda | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic | 05:01 |
| devananda | it is oddly empty | 05:01 |
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| jroll | I won't complain :) | 05:02 |
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| devananda | I'll wait a few more minutes and see who shows up | 05:02 |
| * mrda hopes everything going swimmingly then | 05:02 | |
| rameshg87 | o/ | 05:02 |
| devananda | mrda: I've been on the road for, um, several weeks >_< | 05:02 |
| wanyen | o/ | 05:02 |
| jroll | I have a couple things of note at some point | 05:02 |
| mrda | devananda: you must be glad to be home then | 05:02 |
| devananda | mrda: very much so | 05:02 |
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| * devananda continues waiting to see if we get any more cores in the room | 05:04 | |
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| jroll | devananda: 2 is enough to decide anything, right? :) | 05:04 |
| devananda | jroll: lol | 05:04 |
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| * jroll merges everything | 05:05 | |
| mrda | "jroll merges all the things" | 05:05 |
| devananda | all right ... 5 minutes in and we've got 3 cores ... | 05:05 |
| mrda | that could be a meme | 05:05 |
| jroll | heh | 05:06 |
| devananda | #info only 3 cores present, and no agenda on the wiki. | 05:06 |
| devananda | #topic open discussion | 05:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 05:06 | |
| jroll | oh, I missed rameshg87, hi rameshg87! be louder :) | 05:06 |
| jroll | so I have some things for open discussion | 05:06 |
| rameshg87 | hi jroooooollllllll | 05:06 |
| * rameshg87 gets louder :) | 05:06 | |
| jroll | first off, this neutron integration spec has rough consensus from the subteam. I hate asking for reviews, but we need reviews :) | 05:07 |
| jroll | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187829/ | 05:07 |
| mrda | Cool! | 05:07 |
| rameshg87 | great .. :) | 05:07 |
| jroll | maybe that's it, I thought I had something else but it's late and it isn't coming to mind :P | 05:08 |
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| devananda | jroll: nova stuff? | 05:08 |
| jroll | aha yes | 05:08 |
| jroll | I put up a spec today for fixing our nova-compute model of the world | 05:09 |
| jroll | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194453/ | 05:09 |
| jroll | pls to check it out :) | 05:09 |
| mrda | Thanks jroll - I will take a look | 05:09 |
| jroll | awesome. | 05:09 |
| rameshg87 | oh i was about to ask if someone was working on it :) | 05:09 |
| jroll | it's roughly what we decided in vancouver | 05:09 |
| jroll | and jay pipes, devananda and myself chatted about it today | 05:09 |
| mrda | That'll be a nice piece of work, if we get agreement | 05:10 |
| jroll | indeed. I for one am excited. | 05:10 |
| mrda | Ok, I have something to raise, if we're done with that | 05:10 |
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| mrda | I feel I should mention "Bare metal" or "Bare Metal" and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194230 | 05:11 |
| devananda | mrda: we should go to vegas. jaypipes and I agree on something :) | 05:11 |
| * naohirot jroll, I need to discuss with you regarding the #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187829/ | 05:11 | |
| mrda | devananda: Is the midcycle fixed for SEA? :P | 05:11 |
| devananda | mrda: I'm *STILL* waiting on facilities :( | 05:11 |
| devananda | and getting quite grumpy about it | 05:11 |
| jroll | devananda: boooooo | 05:11 |
| mrda | devananda: well, maybe then | 05:11 |
| devananda | I am actually going into the office tomorrow and will sort this out | 05:12 |
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| mrda | Anyhow, "Bare metal" vs "Bare metal" in docs | 05:12 |
| mrda | Sorry Bare Metal | 05:12 |
| rameshg87 | mrda: does it actually matter somewhere ? Bare Metal or Bare metal ? | 05:12 |
| rameshg87 | for docs, is it ? | 05:12 |
| mrda | Except it's work to be done with little value | 05:12 |
| jroll | naohirot: go ahead? I don't have anything to say I haven't said in that discussion | 05:12 |
| mrda | I don't want us to be seen as bike shedders | 05:12 |
| mrda | Do we really need to change it? | 05:12 |
| naohirot | jroll: Okay, the point I need to discuss is the problem description, | 05:13 |
| mrda | Opinions? | 05:13 |
| jroll | naohirot: so the discussion here. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187829/3/specs/liberty/network-provider.rst | 05:13 |
| jroll | right? | 05:13 |
| rameshg87 | mrda: i am +0 on it unless it matters somewhere :) | 05:13 |
| naohirot | jroll: yeah, right | 05:13 |
| mrda | I just want to keep docs on-side. My preference is pretty much +0 too | 05:14 |
| jroll | naohirot: what isn't clear about "ironic provisions servers on the same network that tenants use"? | 05:14 |
| jroll | anyone else, is there something unclear about that, that I am not seeing | 05:14 |
| naohirot | naohirot: As I commented in the gerrit, sufficient or not only can be judged by reader. | 05:14 |
| mrda | I guess I'm hoping the other two cores here will chime in | 05:15 |
| naohirot | jroll: for instance, if developer thought it's good product, but customer didn't think so | 05:15 |
| devananda | mrda: see the last comment and link to the ML re: capitalization of Proper Names | 05:15 |
| jroll | naohirot: what? | 05:15 |
| naohirot | jroll: developer cannot deny the customer | 05:15 |
| devananda | mrda: I think things will go in that direction | 05:16 |
| mrda | devananda: so ML discussion will decide then? | 05:16 |
| jroll | naohirot: I have no idea what a customer has to do with this | 05:16 |
| naohirot | jroll: That customer felt so, that is fact, it's not denyable. | 05:16 |
| devananda | naohirot: a great many of the developers in this case are also users | 05:17 |
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| naohirot | jroll: customer is a reader in this case. | 05:17 |
| devananda | naohirot: i dont understand why you're arguing about this | 05:17 |
| naohirot | jroll: reader felt it is not sufficient to understand the problem | 05:17 |
| devananda | naohirot: you didn't understand something. you do now. let's move on. | 05:17 |
| devananda | naohirot: dialogue occurred. knowledge was shared. what's the problem? | 05:18 |
| naohirot | devananda: but it's not only me, other new conributer likely to have same question | 05:18 |
| devananda | naohirot: also, a design spec IS NOT DOCUMENTATION. the intended audice of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187829/3/specs/liberty/network-provider.rst are existing contributors familiar with the code | 05:19 |
| devananda | naohirot: who are themselves then able to judge the merits and drawbacks of the proposed changes | 05:19 |
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| jroll | the goal is to make the problem disappear, so nobody needs to understand that problem description. | 05:19 |
| devananda | naohirot: a new contributor is not able to make that judgement in the same way because they lack the context and knowledge | 05:19 |
| naohirot | devananda: if review comment is ignored by unreasonable reason, the whole review process is wast of time | 05:19 |
| devananda | naohirot: the review process is not a waste of time | 05:20 |
| devananda | naohirot: i'm sorry you feel that way | 05:20 |
| jroll | naohirot: so is this your review comment or your customer's review comment? | 05:20 |
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| jroll | naohirot: also, define "customer". developer, deployer, ironic user, nova user? | 05:20 |
| naohirot | devananda: I made a comment it's not sufficient, why is it ignored? | 05:20 |
| devananda | naohirot: if your feedback was on documentation -- that some section of documentation was not understandable, or lacked context, and was hard to understand or ambiguous -- then we should clearly update that documentation | 05:21 |
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| naohirot | devananda: then I proposed sentence to Jim. | 05:21 |
| devananda | naohirot: the current wording is perfectly clear to me | 05:22 |
| naohirot | devananda: I proposed concrete sentence how to update for reader who is not knowlegable | 05:22 |
| devananda | "Ironic currently provisions servers on the same (flat) network that tenants use." | 05:22 |
| naohirot | devananda: sure, you are core and know details. | 05:22 |
| devananda | I know exactly what that means | 05:22 |
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| naohirot | devananda: but are we writing the spec for only such people like you? | 05:23 |
| jroll | honestly, I'm tempted to say that anyone who does not already understand the problem does not need to review that spec. why does someone care about fixing it if they don't know it's a problem? | 05:23 |
| jroll | if a flat network is fine, then don't review it | 05:23 |
| jroll | if you don't even know that ironic uses a single flat network, I don't believe you are a developer/deployer/operator/user of ironic? | 05:24 |
| devananda | naohirot: the author of a patch has every right to change their spec as they see fit | 05:24 |
| devananda | naohirot: you don't get to insist that jroll changes his document in the way that you want | 05:24 |
| naohirot | jroll: i think neutron integration is important for cloud provider | 05:24 |
| rameshg87 | naohirot: i guess point jroll was having was the problem is same regardless of it's single/multiple conductors or nova/standalone deployment | 05:24 |
| rameshg87 | naohirot: so honestly i don't feel that change is required too | 05:25 |
| naohirot | jroll: that's the reason I'm reviewing and trying to understand the problem | 05:25 |
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| devananda | naohirot: reviewing a design proposal for new work is not the place to stop someone else's work and ask them to help you understand the current problem | 05:26 |
| naohirot | rameshg87: again I know that core know about it, I don't deny it. | 05:26 |
| rameshg87 | in a team/community project, voice of community > voice of individuals. so i guess if more people agree on one side, we should just stick with it. | 05:26 |
| rameshg87 | right ? | 05:26 |
| devananda | naohirot: that is valuable feedback for documentation, NOT for design work | 05:26 |
| naohirot | rameshg87: I'm talking about people, ordianry people | 05:26 |
| devananda | naohirot: and again, a design spec is intended for those people already involved in a project to evaluate the proposed changes. | 05:26 |
| jroll | ordinary people don't know what a network is | 05:26 |
| devananda | naohirot: if the documentation is not clear, please provide feedback on ways we can improve it (or -- better yet, a patch to improve it) | 05:27 |
| jroll | so going back to square one. | 05:27 |
| * rameshg87 has one item to discuss | 05:27 | |
| jroll | naohirot: now that you (presumably) understand the problem, is it still unclear to you? | 05:27 |
| naohirot | devananda: again I commented a concrete sentence how we should explain the problem in the gerrit. | 05:27 |
| jroll | rameshg87: I hear you, don't let us forget :) | 05:28 |
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| * Nisha has capabilities to be discussed | 05:28 | |
| rameshg87 | :) | 05:28 |
| devananda | naohirot: even now, you are not understanding me. let's move on. | 05:28 |
| devananda | Nisha: go ahead :) | 05:28 |
| naohirot | jroll: Yes I understood the problem, but why don't we record the essense in the spec. | 05:28 |
| * rameshg87 takes the mic | 05:28 | |
| jroll | rameshg87 was first | 05:28 |
| devananda | jroll: thanks. rameshg87 -- the floor is yours :) | 05:28 |
| Nisha | rameshg87, :) | 05:28 |
| Nisha | yes jroll :) | 05:29 |
| jroll | naohirot: because the spec is not documentation about how ironic works. | 05:29 |
| rameshg87 | i have a patch here to refactor pxe as boot interface - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/166513/ | 05:29 |
| jroll | \o/ | 05:29 |
| mrda | :) | 05:29 |
| rameshg87 | there is no time left for liberty-1 anyway, but it will be good if we can get much of the work done in liberty-2 | 05:29 |
| devananda | rameshg87: whoa! nice | 05:30 |
| rameshg87 | i am planning to put up patches one after another | 05:30 |
| devananda | rameshg87: hm. isn't there a bp/spec for that? it's not tagged on the commit header | 05:30 |
| rameshg87 | people are welcome to review and more importantly to try it | 05:30 |
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| rameshg87 | to make sure we don't break anything | 05:30 |
| * rameshg87 forgot | 05:30 | |
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| devananda | :) | 05:30 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: will add bp to next patch | 05:30 |
| * jroll personally would like to stop talking about liberty-1 etc :) | 05:31 | |
| rameshg87 | it is still W-1 as i need to add some documentation | 05:31 |
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| jroll | I'd love to do a release when the boot/deploy split is done | 05:31 |
| rameshg87 | i mean docstrings | 05:31 |
| rameshg87 | \o/ | 05:31 |
| jroll | rameshg87: I suggest you remove the WIP, otherwise some people won't review it | 05:31 |
| rameshg87 | jroll: so that may be the first release :) | 05:31 |
| jroll | rameshg87: if someone merges it by accident we can follow up with docstring patches :) | 05:32 |
| mrda | :) | 05:32 |
| * rameshg87 removed now | 05:32 | |
| jroll | woot. | 05:32 |
| devananda | jroll: if we can sort the release details out w/ dhellmann before this lands ... it would make an interesting first go at it | 05:32 |
| jroll | thanks for taking this work on :) | 05:32 |
| devananda | rameshg87: my biggest concern with this is ofc how does it affect out of tree drivers | 05:32 |
| jroll | devananda: I don't think there's much contention there, if I wasn't going on vacation I'd hope to do it this week :) | 05:32 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: it doesn't, there is no change to how conductor sees drivers now | 05:33 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: it's just an understand between boot and deploy interfaces of drivers that is driving this change | 05:33 |
| devananda | rameshg87: what if this file https://review.openstack.org/#/c/166513/7/ironic/drivers/pxe.py,cm were split into multiple changes? | 05:33 |
| jroll | rameshg87: so the deploy driver calls to the boot driver, right? | 05:33 |
| rameshg87 | *understanding | 05:33 |
| rameshg87 | jroll: yes | 05:33 |
| devananda | rameshg87: not asking that it necessarily be done that way, but it would be a good way to prove that it works | 05:34 |
| jroll | cool, so I agree probably doesn't affect out-of-tree drivers unless they're relying on deploy_utils etc | 05:34 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: how does it prove it ? i didn't get | 05:34 |
| jroll | yeah, not seeing it either | 05:34 |
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| devananda | eh, it's late. maybe i'm wrong | 05:35 |
| rameshg87 | okay, i tested with pxe_vbox and jenkins tested with pxe_ssh, so reasonably it should work with other drivers :) | 05:35 |
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| jroll | so as this is, a completely out of tree driver should be fine. one that relies on some of our helper functions may break | 05:35 |
| rameshg87 | other drivers of form pxe_* :) | 05:35 |
| devananda | oh - nope, i'm not wrong | 05:36 |
| jroll | and I think I'm okay with that, we don't guarantee anything explicitly about those methods | 05:36 |
| jroll | devananda: famous last words :) | 05:36 |
| devananda | drivers/modules/pxe.py: PXEDeploy class is removed in this patch | 05:36 |
| rameshg87 | jroll: do we really promise them stuffs like deploy_utils are not changed ? | 05:36 |
| devananda | so if I had another driver that inherited from that -- boom | 05:36 |
| jroll | rameshg87: we don't promise it explicitly, no | 05:36 |
| devananda | (that's not part of our driver API -- but it's still a thing someone may have done downstream) | 05:37 |
| jroll | devananda: while I'm all about not breaking out of tree things... is that part of our contract? | 05:37 |
| jroll | yeah | 05:37 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: but upstream drivers have mostly unit tests, so going by that it will fail | 05:37 |
| jroll | I mean, we should at a minimum mail a list about this | 05:37 |
| jroll | I'm not sure if we should do more :) | 05:37 |
| devananda | jroll: we totally have to do a mailing about this before it lands | 05:38 |
| devananda | this one line change sums up my concern: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/166513/7/ironic/drivers/modules/amt/vendor.py,cm | 05:38 |
| jroll | +1 | 05:38 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: may be it's time to have something written down in wiki about contract | 05:38 |
| devananda | anyone who may have an out of tree driver that is extending or inheriting from one of our current driver CLASSES is going to get broken | 05:38 |
| devananda | even though the API contract itself is not broken | 05:38 |
| jroll | yep | 05:38 |
| devananda | so we're technically fine -- a completely original out of tree driver will not be affected | 05:39 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: afaik we only have contracts about interfaces that publish explicity | 05:39 |
| devananda | rameshg87: you're correct | 05:39 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: may be mailing list is a good place to communicate ? | 05:39 |
| rameshg87 | because we need that to be broken down in any case :) | 05:40 |
| devananda | but this will break my out-of-tree driver :P | 05:40 |
| devananda | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193767/1/ironic/drivers/pxe.py,cm | 05:40 |
| devananda | so I know it will affect anyone else who's doing something similar | 05:40 |
| rameshg87 | petitboot | 05:40 |
| rameshg87 | i already commented on that review | 05:40 |
| jroll | yeah, agree we should mail a list | 05:40 |
| devananda | yup -- that too | 05:40 |
| jroll | is there anythign more we should do though? | 05:41 |
| jroll | sounds like we're in agreement | 05:41 |
| devananda | rameshg87: please send an email to both openstack-dev and openstack-operators lists | 05:41 |
| devananda | and let's wait a minimum of 7 days after that before we land it | 05:41 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: sure | 05:41 |
| jroll | do we want to -2 or anything to enforce that? | 05:42 |
| devananda | realistically, we'll all probably be fighting to land it as soon as 7 days have passed, because this is fantastic | 05:42 |
| jroll | heh | 05:42 |
| devananda | but waiting is the right thing to do | 05:42 |
| rameshg87 | okay .. | 05:42 |
| * rameshg87 hands microphone over to Nisha | 05:42 | |
| devananda | jroll: just W-1 ? | 05:42 |
| jroll | yeah, seems fine | 05:42 |
| naohirot | devananda: can we discuss another topic regarding liberty-1? | 05:43 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: do you want me to W-1 again ? | 05:43 |
| jroll | ok, Nisha and naohirot both have items to discuss, should we risk taking them in parallel? :) | 05:43 |
| jroll | naohirot: what's the general subject, out of curiousity? | 05:44 |
| Nisha | devananda, we agreed earlier for boolean capabilities. My ques is where do we define them? in each driver? or a centre place in ironic? | 05:44 |
| Nisha | Do we require a spec to just define all the possible capabilities | 05:44 |
| naohirot | jroll: I'm fine if we can discuss my topic in the ironic channel, go ahead to Nisha's topic | 05:44 |
| devananda | Nisha: eeeeh. yea, I think this needs to be defined across all drivers (iow, in the conductor) so we need to define the set of supported capabilities | 05:44 |
| jroll | at a glance I think I agree | 05:45 |
| devananda | Nisha: has Nova team agreed to the way you want to expose them? | 05:45 |
| mrda | Nisha: My personal opinion is that we have a spec for this | 05:45 |
| jroll | and then maybe drivers can indicate which they support | 05:45 |
| devananda | jroll: exactly | 05:45 |
| jroll | cool | 05:45 |
| Nisha | devananda, they have agreed for boolean capabilities but i didnt get any further reviews on the spec from them | 05:45 |
| jroll | see, 2 cores can get stuff done :) | 05:45 |
| * jroll +A | 05:45 | |
| Nisha | mrda, but the spec will just contain all the capabilities so far | 05:46 |
| mrda | I think that's a good start | 05:46 |
| devananda | rameshg87: W-1 needs to be applied at every revision. you could also -2 your own patch :) | 05:46 |
| Nisha | mrda, ok :) | 05:46 |
| * naohirot jroll , devananda , my topic is irmc vmedia, and maybe related to new feature release model | 05:46 | |
| Nisha | #link https://review.openstack.org/182934, with this spec i have proposed capabilities to be a new field in node table which can accept key:value pair. | 05:46 |
| jroll | Nisha: I think that's fine, additional capabilities can be covered in the spec that adds the feature | 05:47 |
| devananda | Nisha: if we were to allow each driver to expose arbitrary capabilities, we'll have no consistency between drivers -- and thus defeat much of the purpose of capabilities. so yea, I think we need a spec to define the set of ironic-supported capabilities | 05:47 |
| mrda | I think that's good. Question is for a driver writer to know what capabilities there are, and which ones they should support | 05:47 |
| * rameshg87 does that | 05:47 | |
| devananda | Nisha: and if we need to add to that list over time, we'll need some aceptance from >1 driver/vendor that they can support it | 05:47 |
| * jroll makes a motion to #agreed | 05:47 | |
| Nisha | jroll ques was where do we have the set of supported capabilities | 05:48 |
| Nisha | devananda, +1 | 05:48 |
| jroll | Nisha: ironic/common/capabilities.py? :) | 05:48 |
| devananda | Nisha: list of ... yes, in python ^ | 05:48 |
| Nisha | devananda, jroll ok | 05:48 |
| devananda | this could be discovered by ironic-inspector and the node record updated | 05:48 |
| devananda | or $soemthing | 05:48 |
| Nisha | so do we agree that capabilities shall be a new field in node table | 05:48 |
| mrda | Do we see the need to have a required minimum set for each class of driver? | 05:49 |
| Nisha | yes | 05:49 |
| Nisha | devananda, i was coming to above point | 05:49 |
| devananda | mrda: supports_power_management :) | 05:49 |
| mrda | :) | 05:49 |
| jroll | Nisha: I think I'd rather a separate table, didn't we agree on that part already? | 05:49 |
| Nisha | jroll, i actually didnt understand the need for a new table | 05:50 |
| devananda | much like node.properties, we will need to search based on capabilities at some point in the near future | 05:50 |
| jroll | Nisha: to be able to index it. can't index lists in mysql. | 05:50 |
| devananda | Nisha: so that we can efficiently create INDEX(key, value) on that table | 05:50 |
| devananda | and do queries such as ... | 05:50 |
| Nisha | let me summarize the flow i think would be feasible (from nova to ironic) | 05:50 |
| devananda | SELECT node.uuid FROM nodes JOIN node_caps ... WHERE node_caps.key='boot_mode' AND node_caps.value='secure'; | 05:51 |
| jroll | devananda: your dark past is about to show, I think :) | 05:51 |
| jroll | yep. | 05:51 |
| devananda | jroll: yup | 05:51 |
| rameshg87 | :) | 05:51 |
| Nisha | devananda, so do we need end point for capabilities if nova doesnt require it | 05:51 |
| devananda | because trying to mimic that query outside of the database is just insanity -- and there, in a nutshell, is one of my biggest problems with the nova scheduler today | 05:51 |
| devananda | Nisha: yes | 05:51 |
| rameshg87 | i would still vote for a capabilities endpoint | 05:52 |
| devananda | Nisha: but don't worry about that in this spec | 05:52 |
| Nisha | Ok... | 05:52 |
| devananda | just add the capabilities table, a decent initial set to the conductor, and REST API to change them | 05:52 |
| * rameshg87 notes 8 minutes left | 05:52 | |
| devananda | we'll worry about the query API after that | 05:52 |
| Nisha | devananda, sorry a trivial ques but what shall be the fields of this table | 05:53 |
| * mrda thinks we'll still need one though | 05:53 | |
| * jroll nods at rameshg87 | 05:53 | |
| devananda | because I also want to refactor the node.properties JSON field into its own table, that has the same structure and same index | 05:53 |
| Nisha | i was unable to think on that | 05:53 |
| Nisha | k | 05:53 |
| devananda | and then create a REST endpoint like: GET /v1/search?field=value&another=value&.... | 05:53 |
| jroll | Nisha: node_uuid, key, value? or node_uuid, capability, supported. | 05:53 |
| jroll | Nisha: not super important right now, I think, we can review in the spec | 05:54 |
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| Nisha | jroll thanks for the pointer | 05:54 |
| Nisha | that helps | 05:54 |
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| jroll | Nisha: welcome :) | 05:54 |
| devananda | node_id INT UNSIGNED, capability VARCHAR(nn) NOT NULL, PRIMARY KEY (node_id, capability) | 05:54 |
| devananda | that's it | 05:54 |
| Nisha | ok will change the spec and post it | 05:54 |
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| Nisha | devananda, thanks | 05:55 |
| devananda | that's it, I think, because the presence of a row means "supported" and lack of a row means "unsupported" ? | 05:55 |
| devananda | I think that's good enough | 05:55 |
| devananda | but at least it's a starting point | 05:55 |
| devananda | Nisha: thanks much for working through all this! I know it's taken a long time | 05:55 |
| Nisha | devananda, :) thanks for the guidance | 05:55 |
| rameshg87 | okay, 5 minutes left, any other topic ? | 05:56 |
| jroll | shall we give the last 5 minutes to naohirot ? | 05:56 |
| wanyen | deva and nisah, should conductor just get a list of supported capabilities from drivers? | 05:56 |
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| devananda | naohirot: the floor is yours | 05:56 |
| naohirot | jroll: I need more than 5 mins :) | 05:56 |
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| jroll | hm | 05:56 |
| naohirot | devananda: can we disucss in the ironic channel? | 05:57 |
| devananda | wanyen: no. see my previous comments. tldr; that will be a leaky API and essentially unsupportable | 05:57 |
| jroll | just take it to the channel then? | 05:57 |
| devananda | naohirot: sure | 05:57 |
| wanyen | That's way when driver added supported capabilities then we don't need to change conductor | 05:57 |
| jroll | cool | 05:57 |
| devananda | wanyen: every vendor will be different, there will be no way to do common scheduling, and users will suffer | 05:57 |
| naohirot | devananda: thanks! | 05:58 |
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| wanyen | devananda, forcommon capabilities we should standaridize capbility name but for vendor specific capability we should allow them too | 05:58 |
| devananda | wanyen: I disagree. we shouldn't support vendor-specific capabilities | 05:58 |
| wanyen | deva, why not? | 05:58 |
| devananda | wanyen: if a functionality can not be expressed in a common way, it belongs in /vendor_passthru/ | 05:59 |
| mrda | +1 | 05:59 |
| devananda | as long as it can be expressed in a common way, the implementations can be wildly different | 05:59 |
| devananda | but the API can be the same | 05:59 |
| wanyen | deva, yea,vendor pass through but it needs capability | 05:59 |
| Haomeng|2 | +1 | 05:59 |
| devananda | and there is a tremendous value in that consistency | 05:59 |
| jroll | whoa whoa whoa, consistency between drivers?!?! | 06:00 |
| devananda | jroll: inoright? :P | 06:00 |
| devananda | anyway, we're out of time ... thanks all! | 06:00 |
| wanyen | it relies on Nova to pass capabilities info to ironic driver | 06:00 |
| jroll | thanks everybody. | 06:00 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 06:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 06:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 23 06:00:39 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 06:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-06-23-05.00.html | 06:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-06-23-05.00.txt | 06:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-06-23-05.00.log.html | 06:00 |
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| thinrichs | Hi all. Time for the Congress meeting | 17:01 |
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| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 23 17:01:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:01 |
| thinrichs | Who's here this week? I know alexsyip is out of town. | 17:02 |
| masahito | Hi | 17:02 |
| thinrichs | masahito: hi! | 17:03 |
| thinrichs | pballand: ping | 17:03 |
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| bryan_att | Hi | 17:04 |
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| pballand | hi | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att, pballand: hi | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | We have a few items to discuss today. | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | So instead of everyone doing status updates, does anyone have anything they need help from the group for? | 17:06 |
| bryan_att | thinrichs: for the agenda, I'm looking to replicate or re-use the Vancouver Contgress hands-on-lab environment, for internal and OPNFV education/experimentation | 17:07 |
| thinrichs | #topic quick-status | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "quick-status (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:07 | |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: got it. | 17:08 |
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| thinrichs | Anyone else? | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | Here's the agenda then. | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | mid-cycle sprint | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | talk submission | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | oslo liaison | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | milestones | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | HOL | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | #topic mid-cycle sprint | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle sprint (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:08 | |
| thinrichs | We have 6 people interested in the mid-cycle sprint: masahito, peter, alex, zhenzan, sayaji, and me | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | So we need to find date, time, and place. | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Since at least half are in the bay area, it makes sense to host it there. | 17:10 |
| pballand | I won’t be able to make during july | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | June is almost gone, so how about August? | 17:11 |
| pballand | +1 for bay area | 17:11 |
| masahito | +1 for August | 17:12 |
| pballand | I can look into hosting it at VMware again if that works for people | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | pballand: that'd be great! Thanks! | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | masahito: does the Bay Area work for you? | 17:12 |
| pballand | last year we had quite a large turnout - if we can lock down dates I can see about reserving some space | 17:12 |
| masahito | everywhere in U.S is Ok | 17:13 |
| masahito | because I will fly from Tokyo | 17:13 |
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| bryan_att | Would you have ability to dial-in or use webex etc? If possible I will try to be there but remote attendance would be a good option. | 17:13 |
| pballand | bryan_att: last year we tried and had mixed results for those online | 17:14 |
| bryan_att | yes, mixed at best I know | 17:14 |
| thinrichs | masahito: understood. (On a side note, I'll be hitting you up for tourist stuff at the next summit. :)) | 17:14 |
| pballand | we can certainly do it again, but no promises on quality | 17:14 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: the plan was for more of a code sprint than a general policy summit. | 17:15 |
| pballand | how about Aug 3-4 or 6-7? | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | we were talking about working on a specific feature: making our message bus work across processes and across machines | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | and then writing the code to implement. | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | Also some design discussions for scale out assuming that feature is in place. | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | But yes a remote option is a good idea. | 17:16 |
| pballand | how long? I think 2 days makes sense if people are traveling out | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | pballand: I'm avail Aug 3-4 and 6-7. And 2 days seems good. | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | I think we should defer to those who are traveling longer distances, of course. | 17:16 |
| masahito | 6-7 is better for me. | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | Let's find a couple of dates, since there are some people who would like to attend but aren't at this meeting. | 17:17 |
| pballand | I could also do July 30-31 if we want it closer to the middle of the cycle :) | 17:17 |
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| thinrichs | The week of July 30-31 is the OpenDaylight conf. | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | I have a panel, but I don't know the exact day yet. I'm looking. | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | Found it. It's July 28, so July 30-31 works for me. | 17:19 |
| masahito | 3-4 is also ok if others isn't available Aug 6-7. | 17:19 |
| pballand | fyi: here are the other sprints: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | masahito: would 3-4 be preferable to July 30-31 for you? | 17:20 |
| masahito | 3-4 is better than July 30-31. | 17:21 |
| masahito | I have a private plan in Aug 1. | 17:21 |
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| thinrichs | masahito: sounds good. | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | Let's find one more option the next week, in case someone is on vacation the whole first week of August. | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | My next week is free. Masahito: what days that week work for you? | 17:23 |
| masahito | In August? | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | Aug 10-14 | 17:23 |
| pballand | 10-14 is clear for me as well | 17:23 |
| masahito | 10-13 is available. | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | Thanks. We've got some options now. | 17:24 |
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| thinrichs | #info Possible dates, in order of preference Aug 6-7, Aug 3-4, Aug 10-13 | 17:24 |
| thinrichs | #action pballand will look into hosting at VMware | 17:25 |
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| pballand | thinrichs: are you going to post to the ML? | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | #action thinrichs will touch base with other 3 who were interested to settle on date and I will post the decision to ML | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | Next topic: milestones | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | #topic milestones | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "milestones (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:26 | |
| thinrichs | We have a bunch of blueprints that are up, but few people have signed up for them or chosen a milestone (liberty-1, liberty-2, liberty-3) | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/congress | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | This week is the end of liberty-1 | 17:27 |
| thinrichs | Time flies. :) | 17:27 |
| thinrichs | So let's have everyone create blueprints, sign up for them, and assign a milestone. | 17:27 |
| masahito | ok. btw, If anyone doesn't assign in blueprint, is it ok I get assignee? | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | And if you don't have the right to assign a milestone, tell me when you think it'll get done. | 17:28 |
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| pballand | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 17:29 |
| thinrichs | masahito: yep—feel free to sign up for anything that doesn't have an assignee | 17:29 |
| thinrichs | pballand: thanks for the link. | 17:29 |
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| thinrichs | It's worth mentioning that unlike the last cycle where we let the feature freeze period slip, this cycle we're going to do feature freeze at the same time as everyone else. | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | It'll help us get on track for the next cycle. | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | Any questions about the blueprints? | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | In particular, I'd like to see us sign up for the highest priority BPs. | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | #action everyone will sign up for blueprints and assign milestones or email thinrichs with milestone requests | 17:33 |
| thinrichs | Next topic is whether we want to submit a talk for the next OpenStack summit | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | #topic talk submission at summit | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "talk submission at summit (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:34 | |
| pballand | it seems the HOL was popular in Vancouver, so it seems we should propose that again | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | I think we should submit at least one talk. Ideas? | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | pballand: sounds good. Anything qualitatively different from last time? | 17:34 |
| masahito | sorry, what does HOL mean? | 17:35 |
| thinrichs | hands-on-lab | 17:35 |
| masahito | thinrichs: thank you. | 17:35 |
| thinrichs | HOL from vancouver: | 17:35 |
| thinrichs | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lXmMkUhiSZYK45POd5ungPjVR--Fs_wJHeQ6bXWwP44/pub | 17:35 |
| pballand | thinrichs: no changes come to mind, unless there was feedback from the last one | 17:36 |
| thinrichs | It would be nice to highlight some new feature we added this cycle. | 17:36 |
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| thinrichs | Seems we're focusing on scale/performance/architecture this cycle. | 17:36 |
| thinrichs | That's hard to put into a HOL. | 17:36 |
| thinrichs | Maybe we could do something around delegation? | 17:37 |
| pballand | from a proposal perspective, do we need to decide this now? | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | Ok. We should think about the details. But we can put that off until it's been accepted. | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | Any other talk ideas? | 17:37 |
| bryan_att | It would be good to have an update on the feature roadmap, e.g. state of proactive enforcement work | 17:38 |
| masahito | I plan to submit a general session about congress with my use-case. | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: The update at Vancouver wasn't well attended. So I'm hesitant to just propose a 'Congress Update' talk. | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | masahito: I like the idea of a use-case driven talk. | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | I was thinking of something like… Policy Federation between Congress, Keystone, and CloudFoundry | 17:39 |
| masahito | but I think this idea is too specific to get congress official time slots. | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | masahito: I'd imagine targeting a use-case talk to a specific track, like telcos. | 17:40 |
| pballand | I like operator-driven use-case talks, but don’t have a specific topic | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | If there's an audience that is deeply interested in the use case, and there's a track for that audience, you may have better luck. | 17:41 |
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| thinrichs | For the policy federation talk, I was thinking about doing some sort of inter-service policy exchange with Keystone and CloudFoundry. | 17:42 |
| thinrichs | Maybe start by pulling policy.json out of OpenStack and comparing that to a Congress policy. | 17:42 |
| thinrichs | Then maybe gate CloudFoundry operations on a Congress policy. | 17:42 |
| thinrichs | Thoughts? | 17:42 |
| bryan_att | Maybe some federation discussion around OpenDaylight GBP and Congress? | 17:43 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: that's been on the stack for a while. Good thought. | 17:43 |
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| thinrichs | jwy: here for the Congress meeting? | 17:44 |
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| bryan_att | e.g. how do we know when an SDNC action has violated a policy expressed in Congress - I guess it needs a driver... | 17:44 |
| jwy | thinrichs: hi, yep, albeit a bit late.. | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: what's an SDNC? | 17:44 |
| bryan_att | SDN Controller | 17:45 |
| thinrichs | jwy: we're brainstorming talk ideas for the summit. Any thoughts? | 17:45 |
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| thinrichs | bryan_att: I think we typically expect the SDNC to do the correct thing, i.e. we have a datasource driver for the SDNC, but we don't have datasource drivers for the underlying components that the SDNC is manipulating. | 17:46 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: at least, that's how we typically think about it. I don't know if anyone has thought about applying Congress to check the correctness of the SDNC. | 17:46 |
| jwy | looking at the meeting log for today so far. agreed about doing the hol again | 17:46 |
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| thinrichs | ok. low on time. Let's everyone keep thinking since the deadline is coming up soon. | 17:48 |
| jwy | another intro talk? probably a different mix of attendees, being in asia vs. north america | 17:48 |
| thinrichs | jwy: It's worth submitting for sure, but I'm dubious it'll be accepted. | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | Let's jump to bryan's topic. | 17:49 |
| bryan_att | thinrichs: the idea is that a valid action at the SDNC may nonetheless cause some side-effect that is discoverable through a datasource driver | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | #topic redeployment of the HOL | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "redeployment of the HOL (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:49 | |
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| thinrichs | bryan_att: I see the attraction of applying Congress to monitor the SDNC's behavior. I just don't know what the ramifications are. | 17:50 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: want to tell us what you want to do with the HOL? | 17:50 |
| bryan_att | Sorry, browser issue | 17:52 |
| bryan_att | We want to replicate the HOL to educate internal teams and OPNFV on what you can do with Congress | 17:52 |
| bryan_att | We are looking to the role of Congress in our NFVI and need to demo use cases that people care about | 17:53 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: Cool! | 17:53 |
| bryan_att | Also inform them about the roadmap, e.g. how proactive enforcement can be done today but what it implies re Congress-external functions | 17:53 |
| bryan_att | So it would be a great thing to be able to replicate the HOL environment in our lab, and then expose that to people who want to learn more about it. | 17:54 |
| bryan_att | Similar to TryStack, but with Congress and scripted activities | 17:54 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: Got it. You basically want the setup instructions for getting the VMs to the state they were in at the start of the HOL. | 17:55 |
| thinrichs | Right? | 17:55 |
| bryan_att | Yes | 17:55 |
| thinrichs | The people who did that aren't on IRC right now. I'll take an action item to chase them down and see what they can give us. | 17:55 |
| thinrichs | #action thinrichs will look into setup instructions for the Vancouver HOL. | 17:55 |
| bryan_att | Thanks, I don't want to create a lot of work for folks but appreciate any help | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: anything else we can do to help? | 17:56 |
| bryan_att | For now, any details you can send will be helpful | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | It'd be good to have basic setup instructions available. Hopefully next time we'll tack them on at the end of the doc, at least. | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | bryan_att: will do. | 17:56 |
| thinrichs | Just a couple of minutes left. | 17:57 |
| thinrichs | #topic open discussion | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:57 | |
| thinrichs | One thing we're supposed to do is migrate congress/openstack/common/log to oslo.logging | 17:58 |
| thinrichs | Any takers? I can add a Blueprint for it. | 17:58 |
| thinrichs | Or maybe just a bug report. | 17:59 |
| thinrichs | We're out of time. We hammered through a bunch of stuff this week. Nice work all! | 18:00 |
| masahito | If there is a bug report or bp to track it, I will patch it. | 18:00 |
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| thinrichs | masahito: deal. I'll put up the bug report and email it to you. | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | Thanks all! | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 23 18:00:56 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-06-23-17.01.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-06-23-17.01.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2015/congressteammeeting.2015-06-23-17.01.log.html | 18:01 |
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| briancurtin | #startmeeting python-openstacksdk | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 23 19:00:24 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is briancurtin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'python_openstacksdk' | 19:00 |
| terrylhowe | o/ | 19:00 |
| briancurtin | if you're here for the SDK meeting, say hi | 19:00 |
| etoews | o/ | 19:01 |
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| briancurtin | #topic Add Heat resource support | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Heat resource support (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:02 | |
| briancurtin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181063/ | 19:02 |
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| stevelle | o/ | 19:02 |
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| briancurtin | i think the last patchset addressed etoews concern, and i think overall it looks alright. it'll end up changing a bit later depending on what happens with find, but should go on as-is if it works | 19:02 |
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| etoews | +1 | 19:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 19:03 |
| terrylhowe | on my todo list to look at that one, but it was real close before | 19:04 |
| etoews | cool. | 19:04 |
| briancurtin | #topic marking APIs as Beta in the SDK | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "marking APIs as Beta in the SDK (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:04 | |
| briancurtin | not sure who put this in - anyone? | 19:04 |
| etoews | that was me | 19:04 |
| etoews | reasoning... | 19:05 |
| etoews | we put a bunch of code into the sdk and release it. even though we're pre 1.0 and instability *should* be assumed. it's hard to tell what's stable and what isn't. | 19:05 |
| etoews | this topic is actually more important post 1.0 | 19:06 |
| etoews | we'll be putting code in post 1.0 and users will have no way to know what's stable and what isn't | 19:06 |
| etoews | since it all winds up getting released | 19:06 |
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| terrylhowe | we could start a plugin repo for new dev | 19:07 |
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| briancurtin | then it all falls apart like the current mess | 19:07 |
| etoews | perhaps we can mark entire services as beta? | 19:07 |
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| briancurtin | current mess meaning *clients | 19:07 |
| etoews | we went down the "alternate" repo path with jclouds. it was horrible. | 19:07 |
| stevelle | this seems related to the next agenda topic | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | etoews: within CPython we have the idea that new APIs can be added for one or more releases in a provisional state. i believe the ipaddr module went in like this | 19:08 |
| etoews | that's the kind of thing i had in mind | 19:08 |
| briancurtin | as for versioning, i think we probably just have to be super strict on version numbers and grow like browsers do, where we'll be on version 35 at this time next year | 19:09 |
| briancurtin | or does that not solve what you're looking for etoews? | 19:09 |
| etoews | i'm not as concerned with semver (although i do like it) but more of a way of signaling to users that something isn't fully baked yet. | 19:10 |
| etoews | for instance, i'd be fine with not incrementing major version if it was a beta api that we were breaking backwards compat with. | 19:10 |
| briancurtin | on that, then i'd probably stick with the provisional thing. in CPython that's really just signaled within teh PEP that added something, as well as in documentation. i wouldnt mind some kind of decorator that logged a message saying it's a provisional API, or the warning module to emit something | 19:10 |
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| etoews | ++ | 19:11 |
| briancurtin | i know someone is going to say "but people don't read the docs" and the answer is "too bad" | 19:11 |
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| etoews | isn't that what emitting something would be for? | 19:12 |
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| briancurtin | etoews: assuming people pay attention to them, and i forget what the situation is with warnings showing up in the default case of just running "python" | 19:12 |
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| briancurtin | i know DeprecationWarning is silenced by default and you have to explictly turn warnings to be louder to get it. not sure about other types, or custom types | 19:13 |
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| etoews | well anything, it becomes more import post 1.0. i'll log a bug to keep track of it. | 19:13 |
| briancurtin | cool | 19:13 |
| etoews | s/anything/anyway/ | 19:13 |
| briancurtin | #topic functional testing of "non-core" service | 19:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "functional testing of "non-core" service (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:14 | |
| briancurtin | "can openstack.tests.functional.base.requires_service be changed to wrap an entire test class?" | 19:14 |
| etoews | me again | 19:14 |
| briancurtin | that answer is yes, it can be a class decorator | 19:14 |
| stevelle | I'd like to decide what might be provisional from the previous discussion. Is this topic a good place to do that? | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | etoews: are we going to bother defining core/non-core, or does this just mean stuff that doesn't show up in a usual devstack? | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | yeah actually let's pause this for a second | 19:15 |
| etoews | usual devstack is the answer i think | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | stevelle: may as well, we've got the time | 19:15 |
| briancurtin | etoews: any specific example of something you'd want to put through a provisional state? | 19:16 |
| etoews | basically anything new | 19:16 |
| etoews | for example... | 19:16 |
| etoews | i was doing the message service and i got the interface wrong the first time around. | 19:17 |
| etoews | a release could have happened before i had a chance to fix it | 19:17 |
| etoews | now i've got someone thinking they can depend on this crappy interface | 19:17 |
| etoews | and i come along and change it in the next release | 19:17 |
| stevelle | ok, I just wanted to clarify. Are there OpenStack services in the sdk that we believe are currently in a provisional state? | 19:18 |
| etoews | i just want to be able to signal to users that certain services are under development and to expect a bumpy ride | 19:18 |
| stevelle | this is a great topic, as it also helps identify where the project team can apply resources as well | 19:19 |
| etoews | heat | 19:19 |
| etoews | message | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | stevelle: im not really sure if any entire services are like that | 19:19 |
| briancurtin | etoews: i think we're on the same page with how you're thinking of this | 19:19 |
| etoews | it's still so early on in the development of those i'm not confident the interfaces are stable | 19:19 |
| etoews | but again we're pre 1.0 so it's kinda all fair game. | 19:20 |
| briancurtin | good to think about though. we have somewhat of a free pass right now but real life starts fairly soon | 19:21 |
| etoews | not that i think we're due for any huge interface changes | 19:21 |
| * etoews looks forward to real life | 19:21 | |
| briancurtin | as we get around to more functional tests im sure we'll run into stuff that just does not work at all as-is, and will need to be changed around | 19:21 |
| terrylhowe | yeh, that’s why it is taking so long to write teh functional tests | 19:22 |
| etoews | more functional tests for the functional test god | 19:22 |
| terrylhowe | once we get a lazy load for the modules, that would be a good point to put up some warning on deprecated/beta services | 19:22 |
| briancurtin | we're at the point now where no resource/proxy changes should go in without functional test changes as well | 19:22 |
| stevelle | and we are not thinking about provisional tag for things that don't work or are not insufficiently tested, just for things that may have api changes at proxy or above, right? | 19:23 |
| etoews | terrylhowe: when you say that is it because things are changing out from underneath you? | 19:23 |
| briancurtin | (i guess we've been there a while and i think a few people have said that...but anyway) | 19:23 |
| stevelle | not/insufficiently* | 19:23 |
| terrylhowe | no, the proxies were never really functionall tested in a lot of cases and they just don’t work | 19:23 |
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| briancurtin | stevelle: things that don't work should just be pulled out, i woudnt want to cover up bugs with this. once we get to a better level of functional testing this tag might make sense | 19:24 |
| etoews | ah. yes. i work under the assumption that if there's no functional test it's most likely broken. | 19:24 |
| briancurtin | it should really only be used as an excuse for the API changing, not the behavior | 19:24 |
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| briancurtin | we especially have the broken proxy issue when it comes to most anything that needs path_args | 19:26 |
| briancurtin | but we'll get around to those, or are getting around to those | 19:26 |
| stevelle | I forget if we have a coverage report for functional tests | 19:27 |
| stevelle | I don't believe I recall seeing one | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | not currently, but should add it. only unit test now | 19:27 |
| briancurtin | will have to figure out how to configure it since we'll want it to only report based on proxy classes and not the entire openstack namespace | 19:28 |
| stevelle | got it. | 19:28 |
| briancurtin | should get back to "functional testing of "non-core" service" | 19:29 |
| stevelle | I think we can return to the functional testing topic yes | 19:29 |
| briancurtin | etoews: so what else did you have in mind here? | 19:29 |
| etoews | mostly just being able to requires_service at a class level. | 19:30 |
| etoews | i've got a bunch of message functional tests but haven't committed them because a call per method is so slow. | 19:30 |
| briancurtin | that shouldn't be too bad, and we should actually put that on every single class just to be safe and not assume anything is actually there | 19:30 |
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| briancurtin | etoews: i can look into that right after this then | 19:31 |
| etoews | cool. thx. | 19:31 |
| terrylhowe | may be related to this topic. I was wondering if we could get rid of setupClass teardownClass because of the change in tox.ini | 19:32 |
| etoews | in the base functional class? | 19:32 |
| terrylhowe | I’d like to try again. I made that change originally before all tests from one class were forced to one thread | 19:32 |
| briancurtin | i'm not familiar with a change to tox.ini that would affect those methods | 19:33 |
| etoews | i noticed that ostestr has a --serial param | 19:33 |
| etoews | that could be handy for functional tests | 19:33 |
| terrylhowe | yes | 19:33 |
| terrylhowe | anyway, I’d like to explore the standard format again, but there is a lot out there at the moment | 19:34 |
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| briancurtin | #topic Resource.find | 19:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Resource.find (Meeting topic: python-openstacksdk)" | 19:36 | |
| terrylhowe | somewhat related ostestr has a bug I don’t think the fix has been released, probably only on ubuntu https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187300/ | 19:36 |
| briancurtin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193728/ | 19:36 |
| briancurtin | i haven't seen that one, running on osx | 19:36 |
| terrylhowe | I kind of figured most people were on osx | 19:37 |
| briancurtin | with this Resource.find, terrylhowe i'm not sure if you saw my response to your comment about it working like the previous one, but i wonder if we shouldn't push the "find one item by name or id" off to each of the get_* methods in a proxy? | 19:37 |
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| stevelle | I test under ubuntu fwiw | 19:38 |
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| briancurtin | we could just change the from_id method to be a little smarter, or something else has that behavior that knows per-resource if it's name or id that matters, and you'd only get one resource back or nothing. i think we briefly talked about that a while back but didn't go that route | 19:39 |
| briancurtin | i'm thinking about that because find running a query based on list makes me think find_* methods should actually be plural, since they are running regex queries that would return multiple items | 19:40 |
| terrylhowe | the whole find thing I’m not really ready to deal with. I haven’t added functional tests for most of them | 19:40 |
| briancurtin | i wouldnt even do that because they will all break | 19:40 |
| briancurtin | most of them are broken as-is and we'd just break them more | 19:40 |
| terrylhowe | having find return multiple items makes me think it should be just part of list | 19:40 |
| briancurtin | As in, we should add this behavior to list and then make the current find better? | 19:42 |
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| briancurtin | maybe this does make sense, as list+query params (when available) does this | 19:43 |
| terrylhowe | anytime you are searching for some resource, unless by id (or maybe name) you could get multiple responses | 19:43 |
| briancurtin | i'll see how i can shift this over to list to make up for the ones that don't support query params, or even supplement the ones that do | 19:44 |
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| terrylhowe | I’d just like to see something like if (queryparam): slow client side search else: high perf generator | 19:44 |
| stevelle | +1 | 19:45 |
| terrylhowe | since support is so terrible for query params, it seems like we could just pertend they don’t exist at all for now | 19:45 |
| terrylhowe | and just do the filtering client side | 19:46 |
| stevelle | I'd also be happy with just delegating the filtering to the consumer of the list as well tbh | 19:46 |
| briancurtin | inserting our own search in between the proxy call and the resource.list when query params aren't supported shouldn't be too hard. anything we can let the server do to reduce the data returned and work faster i think we should try to enable | 19:47 |
| terrylhowe | if it isn’t too much work, great | 19:47 |
| stevelle | just as a note, it seems appropriate to bring up the filtering guideline from the API-WG here. | 19:48 |
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| stevelle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177468/ | 19:49 |
| briancurtin | filtering as in reducing the fields returned, or filtering as in reducing the amount of resources returned? | 19:49 |
| stevelle | resources returned | 19:49 |
| stevelle | would like to be sure we are providing the best guidance for services to make this support better in the future. | 19:50 |
| briancurtin | i'll take a look, but isn't that a server-side thing? i'm not entirely sure what the takeaway of that would be here | 19:50 |
| briancurtin | oh | 19:50 |
| stevelle | particularly, as terrylhowe points out, support is currently spotty at best | 19:51 |
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| terrylhowe | may be we should have some way the customer asks for server or client side filtering manually | 19:53 |
| briancurtin | i was just thinking about solving some of this with a local=bool flag, but probably not even exposing that at the proxy level. at the proxy level we'd know if a resource can do server-side querying and send those args through, or we pass it through the local query. similar to how we have to set paginated=bool for them at that levlel | 19:54 |
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| etoews | local=bool seems like a cognitive burden on the user | 19:55 |
| briancurtin | it wouldnt be on the user, it would be handled the same way paginated=bool is right now | 19:55 |
| etoews | ah | 19:55 |
| etoews | missed the "not even exposing that..." | 19:56 |
| * briancurtin blows whistle for 2 minute warning | 19:58 | |
| terrylhowe | nothing else here | 19:59 |
| * briancurtin sounds a loud horn | 20:00 | |
| briancurtin | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 23 20:00:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-06-23-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-06-23-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/python_openstacksdk/2015/python_openstacksdk.2015-06-23-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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