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| nikhil_k | Courtesy artifacts-meeting reminder: nikhil, ativelkov, mfedosin, sigmavirus24, flaper87, kragniz, dshakhray | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| dshakhray | o/ | 14:01 |
| mfedosin | o/ | 14:01 |
| kragniz | o/ | 14:01 |
| ativelkov | o/ | 14:01 |
| nikhil_k | #startmeeting Glance Artifacts sub-team | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jul 13 14:02:11 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Glance Artifacts sub-team)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance_artifacts_sub_team' | 14:02 |
| nikhil_k | We have a no items in the agenda today. | 14:02 |
| nikhil_k | Do we want to discuss anything important? | 14:03 |
| ativelkov | yup, as we are in the middle of something, not much to discuss, just a quick summary | 14:03 |
| mfedosin | sorry, my bad. spent all week on bugs in glance_store | 14:03 |
| ativelkov | I've (almost) completed a large series of patches to oslo.versioned_objects which puts the needed functionality from artifacts' "declarative framework" there | 14:04 |
| nikhil_k | #topic Summary ( ativelkov ) | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summary ( ativelkov ) (Meeting topic: Glance Artifacts sub-team)" | 14:04 | |
| sigmavirus24_awa | o/ | 14:04 |
| ativelkov | #info series of patches to oslo.versioned_objects awaiting the reviews | 14:04 |
| ativelkov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197688/ | 14:05 |
| ativelkov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196041/ | 14:05 |
| mfedosin | Erno suggested new experimental branch in glanceclient... It would be awesome if he created it | 14:05 |
| ativelkov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196819/ | 14:05 |
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| ativelkov | These patches mostly await reviews from the oslo team, but if someone else looked at them at some moment, it would be great | 14:06 |
| nikhil_k | mfedosin: Please send a email to ML with tag [all] if you wish to take that route. If Erno wants to we can put a action item on him | 14:06 |
| nikhil_k | #action reviews for all. links suggested by ativelkov ^ | 14:07 |
| ativelkov | Also, I've made a patch which makes use of oslo.versioned_object in Glance to declare artifacts types | 14:07 |
| ativelkov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198798/ | 14:07 |
| ativelkov | This one should replace "declarative framework" eventually | 14:07 |
| mfedosin | nikhil_k, okay, I will | 14:08 |
| mfedosin | ativelkov, do we need to create new artifact type example on oslo.vo? | 14:09 |
| ativelkov | It needs more work ([de]serialization, plugin loader etc), but I'd like to get some reviews on the initial concept. Special attention for flaper87 's opinion | 14:09 |
| ativelkov | mfedosin: I'll create "image" as an example, this should be fine | 14:09 |
| ativelkov | #action ativelkov to create "image" artifact type based on oslo.vo as an example | 14:10 |
| mfedosin | I would like to see something with blob list as example :) | 14:10 |
| ativelkov | Also, we've started the work on performance testing of V3 with Rally | 14:10 |
| *** beagles is now known as beagles_biab | 14:11 | |
| mfedosin | Boris insisted | 14:11 |
| ativelkov | We want to make sure that V3 does not decrease the performance of Glance compared to V1/V2 | 14:11 |
| nikhil_k | ++ | 14:12 |
| ativelkov | boris42 (Rally's PTL) is helping us with that | 14:12 |
| sigmavirus24_awa | Silly question: Wouldn't that make more sense once we start re-implementing the images API on top of Artifacts? | 14:12 |
| sigmavirus24_awa | Like, let's make it work first, then make it fast when we need to? | 14:12 |
| sigmavirus24_awa | (Doesn't seem Boris is around here) | 14:12 |
| nikhil_k | I guess we have to luxury to change the API atm | 14:12 |
| mfedosin | I think Boris is sleeping | 14:13 |
| ativelkov | sigmavirus24_awa: well, there are some early concerns about potential performance issues related to the concept of dependency relations (and especially transitive dependencies) | 14:13 |
| nikhil_k | but yeah we can focus more on this when things are being wrapped | 14:13 |
| sigmavirus24_awa | mfedosin: I'm jealous | 14:13 |
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| nikhil_k | Can we ask Boris to join us next week? | 14:13 |
| *** sigmavirus24_awa is now known as sigmavirus24 | 14:14 | |
| ativelkov | sure | 14:14 |
| * sigmavirus24 just wants artifacts done before we start optimizing it | 14:14 | |
| mfedosin | It will be 7am in California | 14:14 |
| nikhil_k | thanks, I will add that in the agenda then | 14:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | keyword: done | 14:14 |
| ativelkov | he is US timezone now (west coast), but I'll try to ping him about that | 14:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | wait, you mean people don't start working at 0600 local time? | 14:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | I've been lied to. | 14:15 |
| sigmavirus24 | ;) | 14:15 |
| nikhil_k | :) | 14:15 |
| nikhil_k | or work till 0400 :) | 14:15 |
| ativelkov | I've begun working on the "Open API issues to be addressed" document | 14:15 |
| mfedosin | usually I go to bed at this time. | 14:15 |
| ativelkov | But that's still in progress | 14:15 |
| ativelkov | mfedosin and me will finalize it till the API WG meeting this week | 14:16 |
| mfedosin | ativelkov, share it with me, please | 14:16 |
| nikhil_k | ativelkov: umm, anyway you can share a google doc /etherpad with us? | 14:16 |
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| sigmavirus24 | ++ | 14:17 |
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| ativelkov | nikhil_k: will share as soon as I translate it ) Draft is a bit... ehmm.. untranslatable | 14:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | ativelkov: lots of cursing in it? | 14:17 |
| nikhil_k | heh, ok :) | 14:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 14:17 |
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| ativelkov | sigmavirus24: lots of Russian and bullet-points like " - that shit about the drafts (explain later)" | 14:18 |
| sigmavirus24 | :D | 14:18 |
| nikhil_k | ha | 14:18 |
| nikhil_k | if we are done here.. | 14:18 |
| mfedosin | a little bit of offtop: I've translated the next part of documentation (got rid of cursing in it), now Lena's preparing it for gerrit review | 14:18 |
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| ativelkov | so, proably today or early tomorrow | 14:19 |
| nikhil_k | :) | 14:19 |
| nikhil_k | I guess one thing I wanted to discuss was anything remnant | 14:19 |
| nikhil_k | like bugs and feature parity planning | 14:19 |
| mfedosin | ativelkov, I will help, I'm not busy today | 14:19 |
| nikhil_k | can we do that real quick if folks are up for it? | 14:19 |
| ativelkov | yup | 14:20 |
| nikhil_k | #topic bugs, remnant features | 14:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs, remnant features (Meeting topic: Glance Artifacts sub-team)" | 14:20 | |
| nikhil_k | So that we communicate well and let people expect only certain features in liberty, it would be nice to put a expected timeline on them | 14:20 |
| nikhil_k | even if that's "in next 5 years" | 14:21 |
| nikhil_k | Are there any bugs that folks know of and need to be fixed asap? | 14:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | lol | 14:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | "in the next 5 years ... we expect nova to still be using glance v1" =P | 14:22 |
| nikhil_k | And certain features for v2 api like sharing and tasks? | 14:22 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: :) | 14:22 |
| ativelkov | It's hard to plan that far | 14:22 |
| mfedosin | It's easier to rewrite Nova, I think | 14:23 |
| ativelkov | but in shorter range we need dynamic dependency relations and import/export | 14:23 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'd like to request a feature: I'd like to share images to twitter and facebook. kthnxbai | 14:23 |
| ativelkov | That's what comes first | 14:23 |
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| nikhil_k | We need a single well defined API that needs to be used by all projects and users | 14:24 |
| nikhil_k | DefCore wants that and we need v2 to be that | 14:25 |
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| nikhil_k | given v3 would be a wrapper on top of v2, we would need these api support | 14:25 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: "we need v2 to be that... for the next 5 years"? | 14:25 |
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| nikhil_k | for next 15/20 years :) | 14:25 |
| sigmavirus24 | :D | 14:26 |
| ativelkov | nikhil_k: how can v3 be a wrapper around v2? I am probably missing something | 14:26 |
| nikhil_k | but if v3 mimicks v2 we can afford the support | 14:26 |
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| nikhil_k | ativelkov: how can that be possible is a great question :) | 14:26 |
| nikhil_k | ativelkov: but the push for it is strong | 14:27 |
| sigmavirus24 | ativelkov: I think nikhil_k got that a little backwards? v2 wrapping v3, right? | 14:27 |
| nikhil_k | no, v3 wrapping v2 and v1 | 14:27 |
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| mfedosin | v3 is going to be an adapter to v2 | 14:27 |
| nikhil_k | we can move away from v2 by communicating that upgrade to v3 would _only_ be a version change in the url string | 14:28 |
| nikhil_k | I need to confirm more on the requirements | 14:28 |
| nikhil_k | but that would mean something with the endpoint being different for each artifact | 14:29 |
| nikhil_k | we all seem divided on this and I assumed so will be the rest of the openstack | 14:29 |
| nikhil_k | good topic for CPL meeting once we have a draft ready for the outstanding questions | 14:30 |
| mfedosin | btw, folks, about the client - we have a bug with exports there - it's the reason why tests don't pass. can you review my fix https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199061/ ? thanks | 14:30 |
| nikhil_k | we are out of time | 14:30 |
| nikhil_k | Thanks all for joining! | 14:30 |
| mfedosin | thanks all :) | 14:30 |
| nikhil_k | #endmeeting | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jul 13 14:30:59 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance_artifacts_sub_team/2015/glance_artifacts_sub_team.2015-07-13-14.02.html | 14:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance_artifacts_sub_team/2015/glance_artifacts_sub_team.2015-07-13-14.02.txt | 14:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance_artifacts_sub_team/2015/glance_artifacts_sub_team.2015-07-13-14.02.log.html | 14:31 |
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| ativelkov | nikhil_k: I am probably missing something, but how may v3 be "just a v2 with a version change in the url", if the artifacts have different lifecycle? | 14:35 |
| ativelkov | oops, wrong channel | 14:35 |
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| j^2 | #startmeeting openstack-chef | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jul 13 16:00:52 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is j^2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_chef' | 16:01 |
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| j^2 | hey everyone! | 16:02 |
| markvan | Howdy | 16:02 |
| jklare | hi | 16:02 |
| sc` | good $TIME_OF_DAY | 16:02 |
| j^2 | :D | 16:03 |
| j^2 | so i’ll give everyone a couple mins to join | 16:03 |
| j^2 | AGENDA: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-chef-meeting-20150713 | 16:03 |
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| j^2 | ok, cool | 16:05 |
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| j^2 | so this sohuld be pretty quick…ideally | 16:05 |
| j^2 | #topic Announcement(s) | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcement(s) (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:05 | |
| j^2 | Toyko Summit ATC passes got released this morning 13-07-2015, check your inboxes for the information. | 16:05 |
| j^2 | We're providing all ATCs who contributed to the Liberty cycle (priorto July 8, 2015) | 16:05 |
| j^2 | anything else? | 16:06 |
| markvan | quick session review? | 16:07 |
| j^2 | not sure what you mean about that | 16:07 |
| markvan | We have two submitted right now, any others regarding Chef? | 16:07 |
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| j^2 | oohh | 16:07 |
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| j^2 | i have one on the Mailing list one too | 16:07 |
| j^2 | anyone else have talks they are submitting? | 16:08 |
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| jklare | nope | 16:08 |
| j^2 | we should try to help each other out | 16:08 |
| j^2 | advertise and what not right? | 16:08 |
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| sc` | i, most likely, won't be at the summit unless i have a remarkable change in luck | 16:09 |
| markvan | yup, just making sure folks know there are some Chef sessions scheduled and get word out... | 16:09 |
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| jklare | sc` broke any mirrors lately? | 16:09 |
| j^2 | rock on | 16:09 |
| j^2 | sc`: sorry to hear that | 16:09 |
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| j^2 | i could talk to edgar for you ;) | 16:10 |
| sc` | ha | 16:10 |
| j^2 | any other announcements? | 16:10 |
| j^2 | cool, lets go on to Previous Business | 16:12 |
| j^2 | #topic <sc`> c7 still requires some modifications to common to start to converge. still working on getting a converge | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "<sc`> c7 still requires some modifications to common to start to converge. still working on getting a converge (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:12 | |
| j^2 | sc`: updates? | 16:12 |
| sc` | the main obstacle at this point is mariadb | 16:12 |
| j^2 | as with last week? | 16:12 |
| j^2 | dude hasnt merged yet eh? | 16:12 |
| sc` | yup. no chance from last week | 16:13 |
| sc` | s/chance/change. | 16:13 |
| j^2 | #link https://github.com/sinfomicien/mariadb/pull/73 | 16:13 |
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| sc` | we'd also need to get a new version pushed to supermarket | 16:14 |
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| j^2 | true dat | 16:15 |
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| j^2 | #topic <j^2> specs.openstack.org | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "<j^2> specs.openstack.org (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:15 | |
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| j^2 | yeah i still havent done anything with this, i’ll update on _what_ I’ve been doing here in a bit | 16:15 |
| j^2 | i’ll still own it though | 16:15 |
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| j^2 | #topic <all> How to handle cross project CI testing. | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "<all> How to handle cross project CI testing. (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:16 | |
| j^2 | so this one is the big one | 16:16 |
| j^2 | i havent seen any tests yet; but markvan’s update with the wiki has been greate | 16:16 |
| j^2 | is there any questions or thought on this, or can we take this off the agenda going forward? | 16:17 |
| markvan | a side note, we caught our first bug with the new Depends-On support: see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198997/ | 16:17 |
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| jklare | i think some of this should probably move into a spec | 16:18 |
| j^2 | jklare: can you explain that? | 16:18 |
| markvan | so basic cross project support is there, for cookbooks and repo, now just need to get CI gate going to really see this work | 16:19 |
| jklare | i think the first option about leaving in the old function is basically about a good workflow we should adapt | 16:19 |
| jklare | the non-voting ci job can be done, if my patch mentioned below gets merged and we port our ci to all cookbooks (in reverse order) | 16:19 |
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| jklare | the cross cookbook dependencies are a bit harder i think, since i have not found a good way to use zuul-cloner for this so far | 16:20 |
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| jklare | but since we are nearly done with our own gerrit-zuul-jenkins stack, i will invest some more time into that in the near future i think | 16:20 |
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| jklare | so maybe we could move this cross cookbook part into a spec | 16:21 |
| jklare | or a blueprint | 16:21 |
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| markvan | how are cross cookbook dependencies diff from Depends-On support? | 16:22 |
| j^2 | i thought the Depends-On support covered the cross, wait a sec let me reread whats going on | 16:22 |
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| jklare | maybe i missed something about the depends-on thingy | 16:24 |
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| j^2 | ah so the blueprint ot capture the ideas, but yeah the depends on thingy should do what you’re discribing as your gap jklare | 16:24 |
| j^2 | it figures out what order it’s supposed to merge for the verifid/gates | 16:24 |
| j^2 | let me find the link | 16:24 |
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| j^2 | #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html#cross-repository-dependencies | 16:25 |
| j^2 | yeah that whole section | 16:25 |
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| j^2 | it takes a bit to grok, but it’ll make sense | 16:25 |
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| jklare | so this will also allow the integration testing with multiple patches? | 16:25 |
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| markvan | yup | 16:26 |
| jklare | ah ok, then i missed that part | 16:26 |
| markvan | check out the log from the patch I mentioned above, its one of the first to kick this support on | 16:26 |
| jklare | kk, will do | 16:27 |
| j^2 | #topic <markvan> keystone under apache, blueprint patches submitted | 16:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "<markvan> keystone under apache, blueprint patches submitted (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:28 | |
| j^2 | so this is interesting | 16:28 |
| j^2 | it seems that this has been resolved | 16:28 |
| markvan | yup, for kilo, the new recipe is in, but not activate in any role, that will be a change for liberty | 16:29 |
| sc` | are there any plans to backport this? | 16:29 |
| j^2 | sc`: you’re more then welcome to ;) | 16:29 |
| markvan | humm, had not thought about it. it might be a bit ugly since I needed to bump up the apache cookbook version to get some needed bugfixes | 16:30 |
| sc` | j^2: :) | 16:30 |
| j^2 | markvan: do you mind scoping the backport and publishing what you think would be needed to be done? | 16:31 |
| j^2 | it might be worth looking into for Juno, being LTS, | 16:32 |
| j^2 | but depends on the effort involeded | 16:32 |
| j^2 | sc`: that good for you? | 16:32 |
| jklare | btw: i am really not sure about this juno lts thingy | 16:32 |
| jklare | i think we should probably not worry too much about that | 16:32 |
| j^2 | yeah? | 16:32 |
| sc` | j^2: yeah. if it's a big hassle, then it's not worth the cycles | 16:32 |
| j^2 | icehouse EOL’d last week | 16:32 |
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| j^2 | markvan: good on your end? | 16:33 |
| markvan | I can take a quick peek and see what would be needed | 16:33 |
| j^2 | #topic <j^2> AIO-Neutron Update: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196858/ | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "<j^2> AIO-Neutron Update: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196858/ (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:34 | |
| j^2 | now i’m pretty pround of this guy | 16:34 |
| j^2 | though i need some help | 16:34 |
| j^2 | the main issue is OVS needs a second adapter to work to slurp up the NIC and do it’s black magic | 16:35 |
| j^2 | HP cloud, doesnt have eth1 RS does have eth1 | 16:35 |
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| j^2 | so we have to create a dummy interface | 16:35 |
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| j^2 | which is what i did | 16:35 |
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| j^2 | now creating the pools are my problem, i cant seem to relyably get the gateway and create a floating ip pool out of it | 16:36 |
| j^2 | if anyone is willing to step up and help that would be amazing | 16:36 |
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| j^2 | any high level questions on this? | 16:37 |
| jklare | sure, maybe we can talk about this later and i will try to help where i can | 16:38 |
| j^2 | jklare: sounds good | 16:38 |
| j^2 | anything else? | 16:39 |
| j^2 | #topic Manila Cookbook: https://github.com/jjasghar/cookbook-openstack-shared-filesystem | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Manila Cookbook: https://github.com/jjasghar/cookbook-openstack-shared-filesystem (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:39 | |
| j^2 | so I’ve taken a stab at the Manila cookbook | 16:39 |
| j^2 | it doesnt converge or anything yet | 16:40 |
| j^2 | and i don’t want to move it into the openstack namespace till it “works” but i’d love some other eyes on it | 16:40 |
| j^2 | it’s just a framework right now | 16:40 |
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| j^2 | i just randomely picked one of the other “not-so-huge” projects to say that we can make cookbooks for something else | 16:41 |
| j^2 | alanmeadows: was supposed to give us Desegnate ;) | 16:41 |
| jklare | sadly i do not have too much time this week and will be out of office next week | 16:42 |
| j^2 | :( | 16:42 |
| j^2 | also the “orchestration cookbook” works still out of the box | 16:42 |
| markvan | I'll give it a quick review when I get a chance...but dont know much about manila | 16:42 |
| j^2 | i validated that last week | 16:42 |
| j^2 | markvan: yeah that’s one reason why i picked it, it’s basicly “shared” nfs | 16:43 |
| j^2 | i’m not sure _why_ you’d want it, but it’s there | 16:43 |
| markvan | yeah, some folks here are interested since we have the slick gpfs product.. | 16:43 |
| alanmeadows | I've been a total slacker on that (been going through home closing this month), I actually have some working code for designate that just needs to be cleaned up since it was just used internally for a small project. | 16:44 |
| alanmeadows | Do we have a time line for when we're aiming for introducing a net-new book? | 16:44 |
| j^2 | alanmeadows: when it’s ready? ;) | 16:45 |
| alanmeadows | lol | 16:45 |
| alanmeadows | I think I can turn something around thats good to get the ball rolling in about two weeks | 16:45 |
| alanmeadows | if that is sufficient you can still count me in | 16:46 |
| j^2 | alanmeadows: rock on, i’ll start bugging you then ;) | 16:46 |
| alanmeadows | please always feel free :) | 16:46 |
| j^2 | cool, i forgot one announcement | 16:47 |
| j^2 | #topic OpenStack Ops Mid-Cycle Meetup | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Ops Mid-Cycle Meetup (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:47 | |
| j^2 | I’m gonna be there | 16:47 |
| j^2 | Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 9:00 AM - Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 5:00 PM (PDT) | 16:47 |
| j^2 | Palo Alto, CA | 16:47 |
| j^2 | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-meetup | 16:47 |
| j^2 | http://www.eventbrite.com/e/openstack-ops-mid-cycle-meetup-tickets-17703258924 | 16:47 |
| j^2 | if anyone else could that would be amazing | 16:48 |
| markvan | yeah, I asking about that one, but odds are not good | 16:48 |
| sc` | i'll probably make it to that since i'm local | 16:49 |
| alanmeadows | It's across the bridge for me (30m away), so its just about getting some time allocated, so odds are pretty good | 16:49 |
| jklare | too far for me | 16:49 |
| j^2 | it’s useally a good oppertunity to just discuss stuff, anad hell if we get a couple of us there we can powwow on somethings | 16:49 |
| j^2 | there really is a great productivity boost when we’re all together | 16:50 |
| j^2 | alanmeadows: ooh, if you’ll be there we can put those finishing touches on desginate, and maybe even get it shipped then | 16:50 |
| j^2 | i have a cluster we can inject it in too if we want | 16:50 |
| j^2 | to validate | 16:51 |
| j^2 | anyway... | 16:51 |
| alanmeadows | that will be a good forum to discuss | 16:51 |
| j^2 | rock on | 16:51 |
| j^2 | #topic General Discussion | 16:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General Discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:51 | |
| j^2 | open floor? or a second to close the meeting? | 16:51 |
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| jklare | would be great if you could take a look at this periodic test patch | 16:52 |
| j^2 | link? | 16:52 |
| jklare | or both that are mentioned in the etherpad | 16:52 |
| jklare | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194164/ should build it at 6am UTC every day | 16:53 |
| j^2 | awesome | 16:53 |
| j^2 | ah, cool | 16:53 |
| jklare | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194181/ to move it from experimental to non-voting in check | 16:53 |
| j^2 | yeah i’ll take a look myself | 16:53 |
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| jklare | these have been out for some time now and before i start kicking some infra ppl it would be good to have some feedback from you | 16:53 |
| j^2 | i’d love experimental to move to non-voting, it’s annoying having to write check experinmental every time | 16:54 |
| markvan | yup, will also review them | 16:54 |
| j^2 | cool anything else? | 16:56 |
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| jklare | nothing from me | 16:56 |
| j^2 | cool, thanks everyone | 16:57 |
| j^2 | #endmeeting | 16:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jul 13 16:57:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2015/openstack_chef.2015-07-13-16.00.html | 16:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2015/openstack_chef.2015-07-13-16.00.txt | 16:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2015/openstack_chef.2015-07-13-16.00.log.html | 16:57 |
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| devananda | g'morning / afternoon / evening, all | 17:00 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 17:00 |
| devananda | #startmeeting ironic | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jul 13 17:00:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:00 | |
| TheJulia | o/ | 17:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 17:00 |
| lucasagomes | o/ | 17:00 |
| NobodyCam | o/ | 17:00 |
| devananda | #chair NobodyCam | 17:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: NobodyCam devananda | 17:00 |
| stendulker | o/ | 17:00 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 17:00 |
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| jroll | oh hello | 17:00 |
| devananda | the agenda, though light, is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic | 17:01 |
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| JoshNang | o/ | 17:01 |
| devananda | and I need to apologize for my absense last week and lack of preparation for the meeting today. | 17:01 |
| devananda | #topic announcements | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:01 | |
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| rloo | o/ | 17:02 |
| rameshg87 | o/ | 17:02 |
| devananda | probably the biggest thing to announce today is just a reminder for our midcycle | 17:02 |
| wanyen | o/ | 17:02 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 17:02 |
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| NobodyCam | has everyone filled out the Mid-Cycle Lunch questions | 17:03 |
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| devananda | we've got an etherpad started, though very light at this point | 17:03 |
| devananda | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-liberty-midcycle | 17:04 |
| jroll | reminder that lunch questions and an invite for tuesday dinner/drinks is here | 17:04 |
| jroll | ah, deva beat me | 17:04 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 17:04 |
| devananda | and if you hvaen't, please "buy" a free ticket from eventbrite so I can track attendees with the site coordinators | 17:04 |
| jroll | perhaps we should start tracking what we want to hack on? | 17:04 |
| * NobodyCam thinks he has but is not sure | 17:04 | |
| jroll | or is it too early? | 17:04 |
| devananda | #link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/openstack-ironic-sprint-august-2015-tickets-17533862254 | 17:05 |
| devananda | jroll: not too early at all | 17:05 |
| jroll | k :) | 17:05 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: you would have gotten a confirmation email from eventbrite ... | 17:05 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 17:06 |
| * devananda checks attendee list | 17:06 | |
| devananda | NobodyCam: no - you have not signed up | 17:06 |
| NobodyCam | oh | 17:06 |
| NobodyCam | does BadCub have a +1? | 17:06 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: this doesn't take +1's | 17:07 |
| BadCub | NobodyCam: yes | 17:07 |
| jroll | lol | 17:07 |
| BadCub | I ordered two tickets if memory serves | 17:07 |
| devananda | BadCub: oooh. you *do* list this as 2 tickets | 17:07 |
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| devananda | please dont do that :) | 17:07 |
| NobodyCam | lol | 17:07 |
| * devananda wonders how he can disable that | 17:07 | |
| BadCub | ugh | 17:07 |
| jroll | maybe BadCub was ordering two chairs so he can put his feet up | 17:07 |
| BadCub | hehehe | 17:07 |
| * NobodyCam will sign up to buy the free ticket | 17:07 | |
| jroll | something something lazy PMs | 17:07 |
| jroll | :P | 17:07 |
| devananda | jroll: that seems reasonable | 17:08 |
| NobodyCam | lol | 17:08 |
| devananda | ok - any other announcements from folks? | 17:08 |
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| lucasagomes | just a reminder python-ironicclient gate is broken :-( | 17:08 |
| lucasagomes | there's a patch fixing it but gate is pretty slow right now | 17:08 |
| lucasagomes | #link https://review.openstack.org/201043 | 17:09 |
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| devananda | lucasagomes: thanks! | 17:09 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: thanks, wasn't sure if you and ruby had decided how you wanted to order that :P | 17:09 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: seems like that would affect other projects, no? | 17:09 |
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| * jroll +2 | 17:09 | |
| lucasagomes | devananda, yup it did. It affect pretty much all projects | 17:10 |
| jroll | devananda: it's just unit tests | 17:10 |
| jroll | ironic/nova are already fixed up though | 17:10 |
| lucasagomes | ironic is already fixed, but I forgot to look at python-ironicclient on friday | 17:10 |
| lucasagomes | just found out it was broken this morning | 17:10 |
| devananda | gotcha | 17:10 |
| devananda | ok, moving on | 17:10 |
| rloo | jroll: yeah, lucasagomes and I have a plan :) | 17:10 |
| devananda | #topic subteam reports | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam reports (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:10 | |
| jroll | mock the world, break the world. | 17:10 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, re order, me and rloo are working on it | 17:10 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: rloo ok :) | 17:10 |
| rloo | jroll: it is actually, we didn't use mock properly, and mock is now telling us :) | 17:11 |
| jroll | networking subteam report: these specs are *so* ready. | 17:11 |
| jroll | rloo: right, I know :) | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | one more announcement: don't forget to submit your summit talk ;) | 17:11 |
| * dtantsur already did | 17:11 | |
| * jroll assumes dtantsur is giving a talk about microversions | 17:11 | |
| devananda | jroll: I'm going to dig into that spec again today, i promise | 17:11 |
| lucasagomes | lol | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | LOOOL :D | 17:11 |
| devananda | lol! | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | something with gifs, like in Vancouver | 17:12 |
| jroll | heh | 17:12 |
| devananda | dtantsur: oh speaking of microversions, you should review my update: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196320 | 17:12 |
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| dtantsur | will do! let the flame war begin :) | 17:13 |
| jroll | devananda: devref in specs? :/ | 17:13 |
| jroll | why isn't devref in ironic tree? | 17:13 |
| devananda | jroll: a) we should have a devref in ironic tree (mostly just reorg of what's there) | 17:13 |
| devananda | jroll: b) because we have very long lived specs | 17:13 |
| devananda | which are aspirational and not completed in one (or two) cycles | 17:13 |
| jroll | devananda: okay | 17:14 |
| jroll | right | 17:14 |
| * lucasagomes adds to his todo list | 17:14 | |
| rloo | why not call them 'long-lived' then? | 17:14 |
| devananda | rloo: I'm not tied to the name "devref" | 17:14 |
| devananda | but 'aspirational' doesn't seem to instill confidence in our users :P | 17:14 |
| * rloo will look/comment in the patch itself later :) | 17:15 | |
| devananda | other subteams want to chime in? | 17:15 |
| dtantsur | yep | 17:15 |
| dtantsur | I'd like our simple inspector gate to join ironic experimental pipeline https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198381/ | 17:15 |
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| dtantsur | with a goal of eventually joining other pipelines :) | 17:15 |
| wanyen | secure boot for pxe-ilo spec has been there for very long time, plese review | 17:16 |
| devananda | dtantsur: ++ | 17:16 |
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| NobodyCam | dtantsur: will add to my review list but ++ on the idea | 17:16 |
| dtantsur | thnx! | 17:16 |
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| lucasagomes | oh talking about gate, devananda I think this is waiting for you https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199494/ | 17:17 |
| devananda | any updates on docs or qa? or those folks still out on PTO ? | 17:17 |
| lucasagomes | making pxe_ipa gate jobs voting (it's been running since march reliably) | 17:17 |
| Seth__ | I'd like to help | 17:17 |
| NobodyCam | I know jlvillal is out | 17:17 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: ack, adding to my list | 17:18 |
| rloo | wrt docs, sigh. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191900/. you know how they/we use 'bare metal service' vs 'ironic' | 17:18 |
| rloo | lana seems open to using just 'ironic' instead of 'bare metal services' in the install guide | 17:18 |
| rloo | i'm not quite sure that makes sense but am mentioning it | 17:18 |
| devananda | i thought that was just about service name capitalization -- not about whether to use project vs service name? | 17:19 |
| rloo | devananda: well, the install guide is being 'cleaned up' in that patch. and we use both 'bare metal service' and 'ironic' in that guide. | 17:20 |
| rloo | devananda: so i asked them if they were cleaning it up, why they left some 'ironic's around... | 17:20 |
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| rloo | devananda: i suspect i should just stick with reviewing code | 17:20 |
| devananda | hrmm | 17:21 |
| rloo | devananda: specifically, line 1645 for comments: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191900/6/doc/source/deploy/install-guide.rst | 17:21 |
| devananda | so I will give it a skim, but overal I'd like the docs team to help us | 17:21 |
| rloo | devananda: yeah, i was hoping the doc team would help us... | 17:21 |
| devananda | under the assumption that they know more about making words that non-developers will understand than I do | 17:21 |
| devananda | so I think this is them trying to help us | 17:21 |
| devananda | rloo: ok, let's discuss this outside the meeting | 17:22 |
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| rloo | devananda: i'm fine if you make an executive decision :) | 17:23 |
| devananda | i need to read the discussion on that doc chang e... | 17:23 |
| * NobodyCam adds to his list of open tabs | 17:23 | |
| devananda | going to time box this section since we have the etherpad status, too | 17:23 |
| devananda | thanks, all, for the reports :) | 17:23 |
| devananda | #topic API retries | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API retries (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:23 | |
| devananda | hrm, this item on the agenda doesn't follow the format for agenda items | 17:24 |
| lucasagomes | Oh why? I have added it | 17:24 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: it's your bug report -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1472565 | 17:24 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1461140 in Ironic "duplicate for #1472565 conflict (HTTP 409) incorrect for some cases" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Ruby Loo (rloo) | 17:24 |
| devananda | ah, great. the floor is yours :) | 17:25 |
| lucasagomes | yeah later on I found out it was duplicated. But I kept this link because I put some suggestions there | 17:25 |
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| lucasagomes | So basically our client do retry on every 409 (Conflict) | 17:25 |
| * dtantsur wants it to do more retries btw.. | 17:26 | |
| lucasagomes | but in some situations I think it makes no sense to retry, for example, when one try to create a port which the mac address is already registered | 17:26 |
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| lucasagomes | this is not something that the server will fix up eventually so we shouldn't retry | 17:26 |
| rloo | or if you try to create a node with an existing name :-( | 17:26 |
| lucasagomes | yeah | 17:26 |
| lucasagomes | I added two suggestions about how to fix it in the bug | 17:26 |
| jroll | so I tend to think that client auto-retries are just a band-aid, an anti-pattern if you will | 17:26 |
| jroll | and we should just fix the real issue | 17:26 |
| jroll | which is that the number of locks is too damn high | 17:26 |
| devananda | jroll: ++ | 17:27 |
| rloo | well, sometimes you just have to wait... | 17:27 |
| dtantsur | I did it because it's hard to use Ironic right now without retries, but I'm open for better fix :) | 17:27 |
| jroll | rloo: sure, and the error message should indicate that :) | 17:27 |
| dtantsur | yeah, today I saw hardware where power on request took 17 seconds | 17:27 |
| lucasagomes | right, so one suggetsion would be to use a header Retry-After | 17:27 |
| lucasagomes | http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html#sec14.37 | 17:27 |
| devananda | dtantsur: that shouldn't block the client, though | 17:28 |
| lucasagomes | and the client would look at it and would only retry in case the header is specified. The value of that header is the number of seconds the client should wait before it retry | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | devananda, but nothing is possible while this happens | 17:28 |
| NobodyCam | lucasagomes: could we switch some of the 409 to 406's | 17:28 |
| devananda | dtantsur: hardware IS slow though | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | * nothing = no operations except for get | 17:28 |
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| lucasagomes | NobodyCam, another option would be to change the return code yes. | 17:28 |
| devananda | dtantsur: nothing is possible *for that Node, because it's locked by the driver during that time? | 17:28 |
| lucasagomes | I suggested 422 for that | 17:28 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: that's the second suggestion, don't use 409 for the non-retries. | 17:28 |
| devananda | dtantsur: or nothing is possible *at all* because the conductor is frozen? | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | devananda, sorry, late evening :) for this node obviously | 17:29 |
| devananda | dtantsur: ok :) | 17:29 |
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| devananda | dtantsur: there's a bug with the dell driver that blocks even other nodes | 17:29 |
| dtantsur | yeah, yeah.. no, that's about one node | 17:29 |
| jroll | I also tend to think 409 is a bad status code for "node is locked", it's not a client error which 4xx designates | 17:29 |
| devananda | so re: 409, I agree that we're overloading the meaning of Conflict | 17:30 |
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| devananda | jroll: right | 17:30 |
| lucasagomes | IMHO I believe 409 is correct for the situations we described, re creating a port with a duplicated mac address | 17:30 |
| devananda | 409 is the correct error for duplicate mac, duplicate name, things like that | 17:30 |
| jroll | agree | 17:30 |
| devananda | I think it's also the correct error for invalid state transitions | 17:30 |
| lucasagomes | yes | 17:30 |
| lucasagomes | this is even merged in the API guidelines, to use 409 for async operations | 17:31 |
| dtantsur | 503 service unavailable then? looks a bit too much, but maybe.. | 17:31 |
| lucasagomes | when you try to start something which is already started | 17:31 |
| devananda | dtantsur: no - that means the service as a whole is down | 17:31 |
| dtantsur | yep | 17:31 |
| devananda | dtantsur: gateways and proxies will interpret that | 17:31 |
| jroll | yeah, the hard part is that no 5xx codes really fit well | 17:31 |
| lucasagomes | that's why I like suggestion 1) because we then can indicate whether we should retry or not on 409 | 17:31 |
| dtantsur | 520 Unknown Error? :D | 17:32 |
| devananda | are there cases that 409 is incorrect for, aside from NodeLocked ? | 17:32 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, we know the error | 17:32 |
| dtantsur | yep, just no other codes fit even remotely IMO | 17:32 |
| jroll | to reiterate, I don't believe that retrying is good behavior for the client. besides the fact that it's just slapping a bandaid on the problem, what if the node is locked because it's doing some operation that changes the state of the node, after which maybe you don't want your request to go through? | 17:32 |
| dtantsur | well, I do want | 17:33 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, right, yeah that's why I think suggestion 1) would be good. Because it gives the server the power to say | 17:33 |
| lucasagomes | this is retryable and this is not | 17:33 |
| rloo | according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes#4xx_Client_Error, 403 == locked? | 17:33 |
| dtantsur | I have a script that invokes series of operations, and unless previous one failed I'd like to proceed | 17:33 |
| lucasagomes | the client just needs to respect the header | 17:33 |
| NobodyCam | rloo 423? | 17:33 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: if we do (1) I still don't think the client should retry | 17:33 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: oh yeah, 423. | 17:34 |
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| jroll | hah. 423 sounds reasonable :P | 17:34 |
| dtantsur | jroll, so you suggest everyone to continue implementing own retries? nova, inspector, downstream scripts... | 17:34 |
| devananda | are there any other cases? | 17:34 |
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| jroll | dtantsur: yes. or perhaps we add a method to the python client, or an argument or whatever, to make it retry. but I don't think it should retry by default. | 17:35 |
| devananda | if the only issue is around NodeLocked - perhaps the solution is, after all, to move those retries into the API, and after some #, return a timeout | 17:35 |
| rloo | devananda: cases for retrying? I think only when node is locked? or out of workers? | 17:35 |
| devananda | rloo: ah - out of workers, yes | 17:35 |
| dtantsur | devananda, ++ the best solution IMO | 17:36 |
| devananda | that's a great example of a server-side issue | 17:36 |
| jroll | devananda: the conductor already retries on NodeLocked, iirc | 17:36 |
| dtantsur | out of workers gives 503, no? | 17:36 |
| devananda | rloo: and really highlights that this isn't a 4xx error at all | 17:36 |
| dtantsur | jroll, not always | 17:36 |
| dtantsur | jroll, IIRC node-update fails early if it detects lock presence | 17:36 |
| devananda | NodeLocked and ConductorOutOfWorkers are transient server-side errors | 17:36 |
| jroll | dtantsur: that's the api I guess | 17:37 |
| jroll | but the conductor always retries | 17:37 |
| jroll | https://github.com/openstack/ironic/blob/master/ironic/conductor/task_manager.py#L191 | 17:37 |
| devananda | I mean, that's not what I thought a year or two ago, but that is becoming clear | 17:37 |
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| dtantsur | yeah, that's true. but e.g. in inspector node-update fails if something is going on with a node | 17:37 |
| rloo | yes, NoFreeConductorWorker == 503 | 17:37 |
| jroll | I think the real solution is to lock less | 17:37 |
| jroll | power sync loop shuoldn't lock | 17:38 |
| NobodyCam | jroll: ++ | 17:38 |
| jroll | agent heartbeats probably shouldn't lock by default | 17:38 |
| dtantsur | jroll, what about power on/off? | 17:38 |
| devananda | the problem with 423 is that it represents a REST API client's ability to lock a node, which we do not expose | 17:38 |
| jroll | that eliminates 90% | 17:38 |
| jroll | dtantsur: I'm not sure | 17:38 |
| jroll | probably should? I'd have to look at it more | 17:38 |
| devananda | jroll: ++ to power sync loop using shared lock, escalating to exclusive lock IFF it needs to power on/off the node | 17:38 |
| devananda | anyone want to file bug & fix that ^ ? | 17:38 |
| dtantsur | jroll, but that's the source of problems in my today's case (power on/off taking 17 seconds) | 17:38 |
| rloo | devananda: well, the client indirectly locks by issuing a request that causes a lock on the node. | 17:39 |
| jroll | dtantsur: I feel like that's not normal. you should RMA that machine. :) | 17:39 |
| devananda | jroll: agent heartbeat locks because it goes through vendor passthru | 17:39 |
| jroll | devananda: right, passthru shouldn't lock by default. | 17:39 |
| devananda | jroll: it's a great test case, though! | 17:39 |
| dtantsur | jroll, then it should be an explicit error, but I don't wanna people report bugs about "node locked error" :) | 17:40 |
| jroll | ironic has real issues that make it hard to use and we're just patching it over by making clients retry automatically | 17:40 |
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| jroll | which doesn't help for people not using the official client, either | 17:40 |
| jroll | dtantsur: then we should make the error messages better, too. | 17:41 |
| dtantsur | we can retry in API, as devananda suggested above.. | 17:41 |
| lucasagomes | right | 17:41 |
| devananda | I would like to time box this discussion -- these are all very good points and I think we agree on the problems | 17:41 |
| lucasagomes | yeah I would like at least an action plan for it | 17:41 |
| dtantsur | do people like idea of retries on API level? | 17:41 |
| lucasagomes | I can take a look at stop locking the nodes in some parts | 17:41 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: do you have time / want to coordinate fixing these issues? | 17:41 |
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| * dtantsur can write a spec | 17:41 | |
| lucasagomes | devananda, yes | 17:41 |
| jroll | dtantsur: I'm not sure what "retry on api level" means. the api retries the rpc calls? | 17:42 |
| lucasagomes | I think rloo was/is looking at solving it too | 17:42 |
| dtantsur | jroll, at first glance, yes | 17:42 |
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| devananda | I would like to see an outline of these problems -- unfortunately, yea, a spec is probably the right way to go, just to make it digestible to everyone | 17:42 |
| devananda | because this is going to affect several areas of the project | 17:42 |
| jroll | dtantsur: the rpc calls that lock a thing already retry, I think we just need to remove the 'reservation' check in node-update etc | 17:42 |
| rloo | to be clear then, until there is a spec etc we shouldn't make any more changes, like extending the retrying at the api level? | 17:43 |
| dtantsur | jroll, I have to research more, I can't say for sure right now | 17:43 |
| jroll | dtantsur: same | 17:43 |
| devananda | rloo: lest we all try to solve this in different ways, probably a good idea | 17:43 |
| devananda | #agreed we all feel that there are issue with the current locking model, especially around 409 Conflict and NodeLocked | 17:44 |
| jroll | rloo: devananda +1 | 17:44 |
| lucasagomes | right, let's investigate which areas we may be overusing the locking the noes | 17:44 |
| lucasagomes | nodes* | 17:44 |
| devananda | #agreed lucas and dmitry are going to put a plan together to address these | 17:44 |
| lucasagomes | as jroll have pointed out | 17:44 |
| dtantsur | ack | 17:44 |
| rloo | makes sense. are we good with LOCKED = 409? I don't think so. | 17:44 |
| devananda | thanks much! | 17:44 |
| dtantsur | rloo, changing an error code is a breaking change btw | 17:44 |
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| devananda | #topic open discussion | 17:45 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:45 | |
| rloo | dtantsur: I know. will leave that to the spec to discuss :) | 17:45 |
| devananda | dtantsur would, i'm sure, like to say some things about API versions | 17:45 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, yeah we probably will need to use micro versions for it | 17:45 |
| dtantsur | \o/ | 17:45 |
| devananda | I have some strong opinions as well on them, which I wrote into a revision of the old spec | 17:45 |
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| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/196320 | 17:45 |
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| jroll | I don't understand the -compatible header | 17:46 |
| jroll | idk if you want to explain here or in the patch | 17:46 |
| devananda | jroll: see the ref material in the patch, it's explained there | 17:46 |
| jroll | devananda: I don't see any new references? | 17:47 |
| devananda | wait, no it's not :( | 17:47 |
| devananda | urgh. one sec | 17:47 |
| jroll | hah | 17:47 |
| devananda | jroll: http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual/libtool.html#Updating-version-info | 17:47 |
| * dtantsur always hated libtool versioning | 17:48 | |
| jroll | devananda: ctrl+f compatible gives me nothing relevant | 17:48 |
| jroll | this says bump the version if you change the api | 17:49 |
| dtantsur | the only thing that we're trying to achieve with hiding features is to prevent people from "cheating" and not requesting the correct version, right? | 17:49 |
| devananda | also, before I forget, I want to bring up the topic of meeting times again | 17:49 |
| devananda | I did a poll on this a while back, and got ~17 repsonses | 17:49 |
| NobodyCam | the night time meeting are very hard for /me to be there for? | 17:49 |
| jroll | dtantsur: IMO it's valuable because you can know exactly what versions they are in, and thus if your ironic has them or not | 17:50 |
| NobodyCam | esp with daylight savings time | 17:50 |
| jroll | dtantsur: in other words I like sean's take on it | 17:50 |
| jroll | dtantsur: though I don't think we have time to talk about this atm | 17:50 |
| devananda | NobodyCam: I've missed several of the 0500GMT meetings as well | 17:50 |
| dtantsur | jroll, it's not about hiding features, it's about stating versions. but yeah, better on the spec. | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | ++ to not talk about micro versioning now | 17:50 |
| * NobodyCam tends to fall asleep with laptop in his lap :-p | 17:50 | |
| devananda | the responses were more in favor of keeping the meeting, even though I do not feel that the 0500 meetings are productive | 17:51 |
| lucasagomes | I have never attended the 0500 meeting because the time is just too bad for me. Would be good to to listen to the people that attend it, see if they find it useful or not | 17:51 |
| dtantsur | I answered "keep" because I didn't want people to be excluded. But if core team does not attend them, then I'd change my vote.. | 17:52 |
| devananda | I'm mentioning it now in case anyone wants to discuss -- i'm goign to write up my thoughts and post to the ML (it's much overdue) | 17:52 |
| jroll | I agree that 0500 meetings aren't typically productive | 17:52 |
| rloo | devananda: for the ones that wanted to keep the meeting -- are they happy keeping the meeting if no cores attend? | 17:52 |
| devananda | dtantsur: yea, usualy the core team isn't there | 17:52 |
| devananda | rloo: probably not :) | 17:52 |
| lucasagomes | ++ for ML | 17:52 |
| devananda | we do have 2 cores in that timezone, though | 17:52 |
| rloo | that's the problem with polls... can't get to the nitty gritty details. | 17:52 |
| devananda | or, well, not in US/EU | 17:52 |
| devananda | yea | 17:52 |
| rameshg87 | I am one of them .. (almost sleepy now) | 17:52 |
| devananda | rameshg87: indeed :) | 17:52 |
| devananda | rameshg87: also hi there! | 17:53 |
| NobodyCam | rameshg87: thank you for being here :) | 17:53 |
| lucasagomes | we could ask Haomeng if he he would be able to attend that meeting more often | 17:53 |
| rameshg87 | I too typically feel nothing much happens in 0500 meeting. I would personally rather prefer this time every week :) | 17:53 |
| BadCub | I personally don;t do the 0500 mtg at all. | 17:53 |
| Seth__ | + for ML | 17:54 |
| devananda | rameshg87: you're the most active core that that meeting is attempting to serve -- and if you'd rather just have this time, that makes it easy | 17:54 |
| devananda | we completely miss mrda-away with this time, however. *sigh* | 17:54 |
| rameshg87 | devananda: I am all for this time rather than having an not-much-of-a-meeting at 0500 GMT | 17:54 |
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| devananda | rameshg87: thanks | 17:54 |
| rloo | is there some other time that works? | 17:55 |
| devananda | ok - i appreciate everyone's feedback. will get a post up shortly | 17:55 |
| devananda | rloo: there is no time that works for everyone, and this seems to work for the majority pretty well, and we're all used to it | 17:55 |
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| devananda | also, 5 minutes left - and it's open discussion :) | 17:56 |
| rloo | devananda: well, i mean another time that works for most cores + others that can't make this meeting. | 17:56 |
| rloo | dtansur has something: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/166386/ | 17:56 |
| rloo | of course, it is microversion related | 17:57 |
| dtantsur | my beloved microversions :) | 17:57 |
| rloo | dtantsur: what do you want us to do about that? +1? | 17:57 |
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| devananda | dtantsur: fwiw, I would like to just call it "API version negotiation" | 17:57 |
| devananda | because there's really nothing "micro" about it | 17:57 |
| dtantsur | I'm mostly just bringing attention, if someone has time to help them land it | 17:57 |
| jroll | ++ for versions | 17:58 |
| dtantsur | what about milliversions? | 17:58 |
| devananda | :P | 17:58 |
| lucasagomes | names are hard, tho yeah negotiation makes more sense at least in my understanding | 17:58 |
| gabriel-bezerra | dtantsur: http://hintjens.com/blog:85 | 17:58 |
| gabriel-bezerra | "The End of Software Versions" | 17:59 |
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| devananda | dtantsur: shorthand "μv" | 17:59 |
| dtantsur | oh awesome! | 18:00 |
| jroll | ok I gotta run, thanks everyone | 18:00 |
| NobodyCam | thats time | 18:00 |
| NobodyCam | great meeting all | 18:00 |
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| dtantsur | hmm right | 18:00 |
| devananda | cheers - thanks everyone! see you next time! | 18:00 |
| dtantsur | thanks! | 18:00 |
| lucasagomes | thanks | 18:00 |
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| NobodyCam | :) | 18:00 |
| rameshg87 | bye | 18:00 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jul 13 18:00:27 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-07-13-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-07-13-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2015/ironic.2015-07-13-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
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