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| ramanjaneya_ | Hi | 14:02 |
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| moshele | hi | 14:02 |
| gcossu | hi all | 14:03 |
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| jreeves | Hello | 14:04 |
| ramanjaneya_ | Hi | 14:04 |
| gcossu | no qos meeting this week? | 14:06 |
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| moshele | should be we waiting to ihrachyshka | 14:07 |
| ihrachyshka | meh, sorry guys | 14:07 |
| gcossu | ihrachyshka: hello | 14:07 |
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| ihrachyshka | #startmeeting neutron_qos | 14:07 |
| ihrachyshka | #startmeeting neutron_qos | 14:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 29 14:07:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachyshka. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:07 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos' | 14:07 |
| jschwarz | hello ihrachyshka | 14:07 |
| jlibosva | hello jschwarz | 14:07 |
| ihrachyshka | I'm really sorry for delay, we were in the middle of argument with jlibosva :) | 14:07 |
| jschwarz | hello jlibosva ;p | 14:07 |
| ihrachyshka | #topic Announcements | 14:07 |
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| ramanjaneya_ | Hi | 14:08 |
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| ihrachyshka | L2 is this week, and we were supposed to have something the week after it | 14:08 |
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| ihrachyshka | yesterday we talked with Kyle, and he thinks we should try to go before feature/pecan | 14:08 |
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| ihrachyshka | I hope we'll make it :) | 14:08 |
| ihrachyshka | any other stuff to announce? | 14:09 |
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| ihrachyshka | ok, I assume no :) moving on | 14:09 |
| ihrachyshka | #topic where we stand | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "where we stand (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 14:09 | |
| ihrachyshka | we have API tests in gate - yay | 14:10 |
| ihrachyshka | we have get_info in the tree - yay | 14:10 |
| ihrachyshka | and we have ovs client tweaks from moshele in review: https://review.openstack.org/206525 | 14:10 |
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| ihrachyshka | the missing parts: functional/fullstack tests (I believe jschwarz/ jlibosva were looking into it) | 14:11 |
| moshele | ihrachyshka: I upload new patch to resolve the minor comments | 14:11 |
| ihrachyshka | 2. ajo's update notifications (he said he will update the patch today) | 14:11 |
| jschwarz | I'll might not have enough time to work on the functional, depending on whether I'm working next week or not... | 14:11 |
| ihrachyshka | 3. client - I believe jschwarz works with ramanjaneya_ and others to make it happen | 14:11 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, ack, we'll control the damage | 14:11 |
| jlibosva | I'm looking in functional agent tests | 14:11 |
| ihrachyshka | jlibosva, great! | 14:11 |
| ihrachyshka | and 4. <- always missing... | 14:12 |
| ihrachyshka | devref | 14:12 |
| moshele | ihrachyshka: it the neutron client working with rules now ? | 14:12 |
| ihrachyshka | please start updating the devref file for qos with more details, we'll need them for review on merge-back | 14:12 |
| jschwarz | moshele, I'm working on the neutronclient so hopefully we'll have something soon | 14:12 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, ^^ is it? | 14:12 |
| ihrachyshka | yeah, jschwarz is quick, I believe we have it covered ;D | 14:12 |
| jschwarz | If it will work, it'll work only with the post-#207053 | 14:13 |
| jschwarz | :) | 14:13 |
| ihrachyshka | there are some arguments around API. I believe it should have proper attention: https://review.openstack.org/207053 | 14:13 |
| jschwarz | arguments? | 14:13 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, it may be not easy to convince people to go that route at that point in time, so please share your concerns | 14:13 |
| jschwarz | my concerns are that using URIs that are similar to | 14:14 |
| jschwarz | /qos/policies/%(policy)s/bandwidth_limit_rules/%s(rule)s | 14:14 |
| jschwarz | is a bit pointless, since most of the actions regarding bandwidth_limit_rules don't even need a policy_id | 14:14 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, well, you still pass it in body | 14:15 |
| jschwarz | so updating a rule, deleting a rule, showing a rule, etc - we can do that using direct DB query that is independent of the policy_id | 14:15 |
| jlibosva | what is the benefit of such approach? | 14:15 |
| jschwarz | ihrachyshka, yes. for example creating a new rule has to have a policy_id, so we pass it in the body of the request | 14:15 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, if we stick to current approach, can we get it from URI instead? | 14:16 |
| jlibosva | I propose to have rules as attributes of policies | 14:16 |
| jschwarz | jlibosva, the benefit is twofold: having the code easier to manage and having neutronclient code a lot (a lot!) easier to debug and write | 14:16 |
| jschwarz | ihrachyshka, how do you mean? | 14:16 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, well, you already get policy_id as an argument to qos service plugin endpoints, right? | 14:17 |
| jschwarz | yes | 14:17 |
| ihrachyshka | I am with code simplicity, but jlibosva has concerns around rules that are in essence policy attributes be independent of it. | 14:17 |
| jschwarz | jlibosva, what kind of policy attributes are we talking about? | 14:18 |
| ihrachyshka | that said, I agree it reflects what we do for e.g. subnets vs networks and don't mind | 14:18 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, rules | 14:18 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, each rule type is basically an attr on policy | 14:18 |
| jlibosva | or maybe now I'm thinking about design - given that we used to have 'type' per rule, should we have a rules collection per policy? | 14:18 |
| jschwarz | oh yikes | 14:18 |
| ihrachyshka | jlibosva, I don't think we want to allow rules being written thru create on policies | 14:19 |
| jlibosva | jschwarz: well, there is obviously a 1:1 mapping between policy and rule collections | 14:19 |
| jschwarz | I think the problem with what Kuba is suggesting is that it doesn't allow a one-to-many mapping between rule to policies (ie. reusing rules) | 14:19 |
| jschwarz | lol | 14:19 |
| jlibosva | ihrachyshka: I agree on that, policies and rules should be separate objects | 14:19 |
| jlibosva | jschwarz: rules are quite small objects carrying just a piece of information. I mean, I don't know what the use case would be about assigning rule to a different policy ... | 14:20 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, well, I am not against making it reusable, but ... not in this point in cycle :) I still feel bad I was not on design phase. | 14:21 |
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| ihrachyshka | jlibosva, well... for policy in policies: apply single rule? (that's assuming we allow reuse) | 14:22 |
| ihrachyshka | it may be allowed later | 14:22 |
| jschwarz | jlibosva, how about having a lot of networks, all with the same single rule? one might want to change that rule and have it affect all the networks in the tenant | 14:22 |
| ihrachyshka | while if we go with current approach, we are locked into subattrs | 14:22 |
| jlibosva | jschwarz: networks will have the same policy | 14:22 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, it's not in spec, but I agree | 14:22 |
| ihrachyshka | jlibosva, well, ok, all policies | 14:22 |
| jschwarz | I think that whatever we choose, we must remember to look at the neutronclient before making the decision | 14:23 |
| jlibosva | I think neutronclient should adopt server, not vice versa | 14:23 |
| jschwarz | neutronclient's code is very restrictive in that it expects paths and objects to be in a specific way and that's a main reason why 207053 was proposed. | 14:23 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, you have an obvious benefit here since you actually looked | 14:23 |
| jlibosva | ihrachyshka: I don't get all policies - you mean having lots of policies all of them using single rules? | 14:24 |
| jschwarz | jlibosva, yes | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | do we have examples in other services where they embed objects? | 14:24 |
| jschwarz | not yet... maybe lbaasv2 does it with members? | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | jlibosva, yes, they may differ on some other rules but not that one | 14:24 |
| jlibosva | well, if there is such use case then it makes sense. I thought that rule will have a single policy-id | 14:24 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, I just wonder that if there is something there to steal, why can't we do it? | 14:24 |
| jschwarz | ihrachyshka, who said we're not stealing? :) | 14:25 |
| ihrachyshka | jlibosva, atm it won't, but I think it's a reasonable move to allow it | 14:25 |
| jlibosva | jschwarz: lbaas does it with health-monitors | 14:25 |
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| jlibosva | ihrachyshka: then we should make the decision on what is expected | 14:25 |
| jschwarz | I looked for a bit and didn't see one case of a URI such as /qos/policies/%s/bw_limit_rules/%s | 14:25 |
| jschwarz | lb members for example looks like /lb/members | 14:25 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, have you looked at health-monitors? | 14:26 |
| jlibosva | if there will be mapping 1:N between policies and rules, makes sense. If 1:1, we should make it easier | 14:26 |
| jschwarz | likewise lb healthmonitors looks like /lb/healthmonitors | 14:26 |
| jschwarz | #link https://github.com/openstack/python-neutronclient/blob/master/neutronclient/v2_0/client.py#L383 | 14:26 |
| ihrachyshka | jlibosva, ^^ ? | 14:26 |
| ramanjaneya_ | Rule and policy should be 1:1 mapping makes scene | 14:27 |
| jschwarz | also: https://github.com/openstack/python-neutronclient/blob/master/neutronclient/v2_0/client.py#L371 | 14:27 |
| ddepaoli | there's no qos branch for client? | 14:27 |
| ihrachyshka | ddepaoli, no, there is no branch for client | 14:27 |
| jschwarz | ddepaoli, no, only 2 patches | 14:27 |
| jlibosva | ihrachyshka: jschwarz https://github.com/openstack/python-neutronclient/blob/master/neutronclient/v2_0/client.py#L385 | 14:27 |
| jschwarz | jlibosva, yes, I just saw that... | 14:27 |
| ihrachyshka | it's to assoc monitors. is it the same as we need? | 14:28 |
| jschwarz | either way it's one URI out of every other URIs | 14:28 |
| jlibosva | I wasn't present on design phase so I don't know :) But we must be clear on the relation between rules and policies | 14:28 |
| ihrachyshka | we currently talk about CRUD for rules, right? | 14:28 |
| jschwarz | ihrachyshka, not only - based on that address we need to be able to also list, show, create, delete... | 14:28 |
| ihrachyshka | in design phase, it was told 1:N is YAGNI | 14:28 |
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| ihrachyshka | I don't think everyone understood it will complicate things | 14:29 |
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| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, I mean, in that health-monitor example, the URI is used to attach monitors, not create them. for create, they have a root level obj. | 14:29 |
| ihrachyshka | the way you suggest | 14:29 |
| jschwarz | yes | 14:30 |
| ihrachyshka | (unless I misunderstand the var names) | 14:30 |
| jschwarz | that makes sense | 14:30 |
| jlibosva | but that's because of 1:N mapping, right? | 14:30 |
| ihrachyshka | no idea :) | 14:30 |
| jschwarz | ihrachyshka, jlibosva, either way you;ll see that in v2 they diverted from that | 14:31 |
| ihrachyshka | there is also that one: https://github.com/openstack/python-neutronclient/blob/master/neutronclient/v2_0/client.py#L424 | 14:31 |
| ihrachyshka | weird one | 14:31 |
| jschwarz | meaning they also decided it's a bad idea :) | 14:31 |
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| jlibosva | jschwarz: link? :) | 14:31 |
| ihrachyshka | https://github.com/openstack/python-neutronclient/blob/master/neutronclient/v2_0/client.py#L365 ? | 14:31 |
| jschwarz | jlibosva, https://github.com/openstack/python-neutronclient/blob/master/neutronclient/v2_0/client.py#L372 | 14:31 |
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| jschwarz | oh, I now see that on line 374 they do have that heirarchy for /lbaas/pools/%s/members/%s | 14:32 |
| jlibosva | well, that's a common thing in rest apis if you have multiple mappings | 14:32 |
| jlibosva | I mean 1:N | 14:33 |
| jschwarz | that whole 1:N isn't even written yet | 14:33 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, how about we spend some time trying to mimic that? api change is not cheap | 14:34 |
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| jschwarz | sure, i'll see about mimicing that | 14:34 |
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| jlibosva | what's 'mimicing'? | 14:34 |
| jschwarz | jlibosva, fancy word for 'copy pasting' | 14:34 |
| jschwarz | XD | 14:34 |
| ihrachyshka | jschwarz, ok, thanks a lot. we'll have an option to fall back to your proposal if it does not fly. but we should try to avoid it. | 14:34 |
| jlibosva | ok :) | 14:34 |
| jlibosva | that was for john's explanation on mimic^^ | 14:35 |
| jschwarz | XD | 14:35 |
| jlibosva | I would try to search for some design practices for rest api | 14:35 |
| jlibosva | this seems like a common thing :-/ | 14:35 |
| ihrachyshka | we also have a patch for sriov, thanks to moshele https://review.openstack.org/206038 | 14:35 |
| ihrachyshka | please review guys | 14:35 |
| ihrachyshka | one more thing... I don't see Gal here. moshele do you by chance know whether someone works on non-native ovsdb qos interface? | 14:36 |
| moshele | no | 14:36 |
| ihrachyshka | we desperately need this one, since vsctl is the default | 14:36 |
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| jreeves | I believe we can add it to our roadmap | 14:37 |
| ihrachyshka | jreeves, it should be before merge-back I suppose | 14:37 |
| jreeves | (we as in vhoward's team) | 14:37 |
| ihrachyshka | so we are tight | 14:37 |
| ihrachyshka | jreeves, do you think it's realistic? | 14:37 |
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| jreeves | not sure at this point. I'll have to check with the others | 14:38 |
| jreeves | Vic is out today though | 14:38 |
| ihrachyshka | jreeves, thanks. please keep my in the loop. | 14:38 |
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| jreeves | ok | 14:38 |
| ihrachyshka | one more thing: I've cleaned up etherpad from some old/implemented stuff | 14:38 |
| ihrachyshka | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/qos-sync | 14:38 |
| ihrachyshka | please make sure you maintain it in good shape :) | 14:39 |
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| ihrachyshka | jreeves, we also may need linuxbridge at least for API tests purposes. or we may change rule_types algorithm for ml2 | 14:39 |
| ihrachyshka | ok, anything more from you guys? | 14:40 |
| jreeves | I'll include that request too then | 14:40 |
| ihrachyshka | jreeves++ | 14:40 |
| jreeves | but I don't think we'll be that ambitious lol | 14:40 |
| ihrachyshka | heh | 14:40 |
| ihrachyshka | well, we have a fallback plan for lb | 14:40 |
| ihrachyshka | ah forgot to mention, ajo will be back on Mon :) | 14:41 |
| ihrachyshka | ok, I guess we may use remaining 20 mins for code, reviews and what not | 14:41 |
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| ihrachyshka | #endmeeting | 14:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 29 14:41:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:41 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-07-29-14.07.html | 14:41 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-07-29-14.07.txt | 14:41 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2015/neutron_qos.2015-07-29-14.07.log.html | 14:41 |
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| jlibosva | thanks, bye o/ | 14:42 |
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| ihrachyshka | o/ | 14:42 |
| ddepaoli | is it possible to test it with devstack? | 14:43 |
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| ddepaoli | or too early? | 14:43 |
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| jschwarz | ihrachyshka, ^ see ddepaoli's question | 14:46 |
| ihrachyshka | ddepaoli, let's move to #openstack-neutron | 14:46 |
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| gcossu | I'm interested too :) | 14:48 |
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| alaski | #startmeeting nova_cells | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 29 17:00:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alaski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_cells' | 17:00 |
| alaski | anyone here today? | 17:00 |
| vineetmenon | o/ | 17:00 |
| melwitt | o/ | 17:00 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 17:01 |
| bauzas | _o | 17:01 |
| bauzas | \o even | 17:01 |
| alaski | great | 17:01 |
| alaski | #topic Tempest testing | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest testing (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:01 | |
| alaski | melwitt: anything to report? | 17:02 |
| melwitt | alaski: no, don't think so | 17:02 |
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| bauzas | we had some problems with the devstack install last night | 17:02 |
| bauzas | (not speaking of tempest) | 17:02 |
| bauzas | uh, last night EU time | 17:02 |
| alaski | what sort of problems? | 17:03 |
| bauzas | alaski: sec, giving the URL | 17:03 |
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| bauzas | alaski: nothing related to cells, rather timeouts AFAICS | 17:03 |
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| bauzas | anyway, that's the only issue I spotted this week | 17:03 |
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| bauzas | http://logstash.openstack.org/#eyJzZWFyY2giOiJtZXNzYWdlOlwiZXhpdCBjb2RlOiAxMzdcIiBBTkQgdGFnczpcImNvbnNvbGVcIiBBTkQgYnVpbGRfbmFtZTpcImdhdGUtZGV2c3RhY2stZHN2bS1jZWxsc1wiIiwiZmllbGRzIjpbXSwib2Zmc2V0IjowLCJ0aW1lZnJhbWUiOiI4NjQwMCIsImdyYXBobW9kZSI6ImNvdW50IiwidGltZSI6eyJ1c2VyX2ludGVydmFsIjowfSwic3RhbXAiOjE0MzgxODk0NTcwMzd9 | 17:04 |
| bauzas | but we can move on | 17:04 |
| alaski | okay. yeah, if not directly cells related | 17:04 |
| alaski | melwitt: thanks for the update, glad it's good | 17:05 |
| alaski | #topic Open discussion | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:05 | |
| alaski | just to update everyone, on my end I'm digging into the request spec stuff | 17:05 |
| alaski | I reworked my patch series to split it along different lines which took a bit, and bauzas reworking things hasn't helped :) | 17:06 |
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| alaski | working on testing now and then I shoudl get some stuff up | 17:06 |
| belmoreira | thanks for the reviews on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201606/ | 17:06 |
| bauzas | alaski: yeah, sorry about that, but I had some good reviews :) | 17:06 |
| melwitt | cool | 17:06 |
| bauzas | alaski: so I had to work on some new PSs | 17:06 |
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| bauzas | alaski: that's the main problem when you have long series :) | 17:07 |
| alaski | belmoreira: np | 17:07 |
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| alaski | bauzas: yeah, definitely understand. just makes my job harder :) | 17:07 |
| belmoreira | alaski: I have been travelling but should be good to continue the work now | 17:07 |
| bauzas | alaski: eh eh, someone said in the midcycle that he was not happy with some SchedulerHints object so I had to rebase my whole series :p | 17:08 |
| alaski | belmoreira: great. that will be helpful | 17:08 |
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| alaski | bauzas: I wouldn't listen to that guy | 17:08 |
| alaski | that does simplify things a bit though, so it's actually good | 17:09 |
| bauzas | no worries :) | 17:09 |
| alaski | anyone else have a topic today? | 17:10 |
| alaski | until the summit we're likely to have a light agenda of just updates in this meeting | 17:10 |
| bauzas | nothing apart saying I should be off for the next 2 weeks | 17:10 |
| alaski | again? :) | 17:10 |
| belmoreira | I have a question | 17:10 |
| bauzas | I'm French, remember ? :) | 17:10 |
| belmoreira | we are populating instance_types with default flavors | 17:11 |
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| bauzas | belmoreira: in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201606/ ? | 17:11 |
| alaski | oh, right. that's a terrible bit of code somewhere | 17:11 |
| belmoreira | should we continue with this in flavors table? | 17:11 |
| belmoreira | bauzas: is not there | 17:12 |
| alaski | belmoreira: I would like to say no. it's a bad thing we do currently and we should stop. but I don't know all the implications of that so we should probably bring this up at the nova meeting | 17:12 |
| bauzas | belmoreira: alaski: oh ok, any code I could look at ? | 17:12 |
| bauzas | oh, you mean when instanciating the instance_types table? | 17:13 |
| alaski | bauzas: I think it's in the 216_havana.py migration | 17:13 |
| bauzas | isn't that a devstack-ish thing ? | 17:13 |
| belmoreira | I would be surprised if people are relying in those flavors | 17:13 |
| bauzas | oh right | 17:13 |
| bauzas | alaski: yep _populate_instance_types in 216_havana.py, correct | 17:14 |
| alaski | belmoreira: me too. but I'm often suprised | 17:14 |
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| bauzas | well, small clouds do | 17:14 |
| melwitt | migration adds some flavors? that seems odd | 17:14 |
| bauzas | as an operator, I was relying on those :) | 17:14 |
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| bauzas | melwitt: yeah, was thinking it was devstack or something else | 17:14 |
| alaski | melwitt: exactly. we bootstrap nova with some flavors | 17:15 |
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| melwitt | bauzas: yeah, I thought the same until alaski said it | 17:15 |
| alaski | bauzas: devstack would be the right place to do it, or maybe a nova-manage command though I don't really like that | 17:15 |
| bauzas | alaski: devstack and/or package vendors | 17:15 |
| alaski | it feels like something we should just document, "add these flavors to get started" | 17:15 |
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| bauzas | that's just what we do for all the other data :) | 17:16 |
| belmoreira | alaski: +1 | 17:16 |
| * bauzas remembers the early ages of deploying Diablo's debs :) | 17:16 | |
| vineetmenon | alaski: +! | 17:16 |
| melwitt | alaski: yeah, nova-manage would have been as invasive as I'd think to go | 17:16 |
| bauzas | melwitt: I would -1 a nova-manage hydrate-flavors | 17:17 |
| bauzas | nova-manage is for providing something we can't do or won't do at the REST API level - very specific operations | 17:17 |
| alaski | okay, I'll add this to the nova meeting agenda and we can discuss it there. might need a ML post as well | 17:17 |
| bauzas | I'd be surprised that operators would know about that - I would even bet that 99% of them think it's devstack | 17:18 |
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| alaski | it also probably means that we(rax) have some code to strip those out when we bootstrap a new cell somewhere | 17:19 |
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| belmoreira | bauzas: not sure... because is what they get in the DB when setup a cloud | 17:19 |
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| belmoreira | at CERN they are available :) ...legacy | 17:20 |
| melwitt | yeah, we don't use those canned flavors either so I guess we must delete them as part of the deployment automation | 17:21 |
| belmoreira | but we repopulate the tables with our flavors... | 17:21 |
| alaski | this would be a great chance to fix this | 17:22 |
| alaski | any other topics today? | 17:22 |
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| alaski | oh, I have a question. since the meeting is going to be light until around the summit does it still feel useful to do weekly right now? | 17:23 |
| alaski | I'm happy to continue doing it | 17:23 |
| alaski | but don't want to waste peoples time | 17:23 |
| melwitt | I'm cool with it not being weekly, but either way is fine | 17:23 |
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| alaski | bauzas: belmoreira any thoughts? | 17:25 |
| alaski | otherwise melwitts one vote wins :) | 17:25 |
| bauzas | meh | 17:25 |
| vineetmenon | -_- | 17:25 |
| belmoreira | I may have some questions with flavors spec but I can ping you when needed | 17:25 |
| bauzas | the 1700UTC is just family business | 17:25 |
| bauzas | so I'd be happy to drop that one | 17:25 |
| bauzas | unless urgent queries | 17:25 |
| alaski | vineetmenon: you get a vote as well :) | 17:26 |
| alaski | belmoreira: that works | 17:26 |
| alaski | how about we meet next week and if there's no resistance we'll alternate from then until summit | 17:26 |
| alaski | and drop the 1700 for now | 17:26 |
| vineetmenon | 1100UTC is too late for us in India.. but I don't want to disturb your family time. | 17:27 |
| bauzas | vineetmenon: that's not really a PITA for me, just a matter of arranging my stuff :) | 17:27 |
| belmoreira | yeah, Vineet and Dheeraj connect from India | 17:27 |
| vineetmenon | I'll read meeting log, meanwhile | 17:27 |
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| alaski | we can drop either one, I just went with 1700 since bauzas spoke up | 17:28 |
| bauzas | don't really look at me | 17:29 |
| vineetmenon | bauzas: :) | 17:29 |
| bauzas | if vineetmenon can't handle the 2100 one, I'm okay with keeping the 1700 one | 17:29 |
| vineetmenon | I would prefer 1700, tbh. | 17:29 |
| alaski | okay. How about we reconvene in two weeks at this time? | 17:29 |
| bauzas | I can hassle alaski anytime | 17:29 |
| vineetmenon | 2300UTC == 0230 IST, so it becomes terrible | 17:29 |
| alaski | bauzas and I overlap quite a bit anyways | 17:30 |
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| alaski | #info Meeting will be held every two weeks at 1700 until summit | 17:30 |
| melwitt | cool | 17:31 |
| alaski | should have include a timezone :( | 17:31 |
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| melwitt | you can do a #undo and do it again | 17:31 |
| melwitt | I think | 17:31 |
| alaski | #undo | 17:31 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0xa799a10> | 17:31 |
| alaski | #info Meeting will be held every two weeks at 1700UTC until summit | 17:31 |
| alaski | melwitt: thanks | 17:31 |
| vineetmenon | cool | 17:31 |
| alaski | anything else for today? | 17:31 |
| alaski | great. thanks everyone! | 17:32 |
| alaski | I will go continue to chase bauzas patch series now | 17:32 |
| alaski | #endmeeting | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 29 17:32:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:32 |
| vineetmenon | bye | 17:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-07-29-17.00.html | 17:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-07-29-17.00.txt | 17:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2015/nova_cells.2015-07-29-17.00.log.html | 17:32 |
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| SridarK | Hi FWaaS folks | 18:31 |
| xgerman | Hi | 18:31 |
| annp | Hi | 18:31 |
| jwarendt | Hi | 18:31 |
| badveli | hello all | 18:31 |
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| madhu_ak | hi | 18:31 |
| hoangcx | Hi | 18:31 |
| SridarK | ok lets get started | 18:31 |
| * pc_m lurking...someone has to keep an eye on you guys! :) | 18:31 | |
| SridarK | pc_m: :-) always welcome | 18:32 |
| SridarK | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:32 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 29 18:32:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SridarK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:32 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:32 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:32 |
| SridarK | #topic Bugs | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:32 | |
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| SridarK | from last week: | 18:32 |
| SridarK | or rather last mtg | 18:33 |
| SridarK | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1474279 | 18:33 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1474279 in neutron "FWaaS let connection opened if delete allow rule, beacuse of conntrack" [Undecided,Incomplete] | 18:33 |
| SridarK | this may be a non issue and could be related to the conn track - thanks to Elena for following up on this | 18:33 |
| SridarK | new: | 18:33 |
| SridarK | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1477097 | 18:33 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1477097 in neutron "fwaas: firewall in error status after update firewall-rule " [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Sridar Kandaswamy (skandasw) | 18:33 |
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| SridarK | i just assigned it to myself for a quick eval - i think we have fixed some code around here - so lets see | 18:34 |
| SridarK | anything else noteworthy that others might be aware of | 18:35 |
| SridarK | ? | 18:35 |
| SridarK | badveli: did u find anything else as u were checking ? | 18:35 |
| badveli | nothing much but should we see the linkhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack/+bugs?field.searchtext=fwaas&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_p | 18:36 |
| badveli | sridar some of them are low priority | 18:36 |
| SridarK | badveli: yes those are fine and some are not directly related | 18:36 |
| SridarK | badveli: so if u have nothing more that u have seen to raise concern we can move on | 18:37 |
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| badveli | fine sridark | 18:37 |
| SridarK | #topic Service Objects/Group | 18:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Objects/Group (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:37 | |
| SridarK | badveli: things u would like to bring up, update or discuss | 18:38 |
| badveli | yes i am facing an issue with my patches | 18:38 |
| badveli | mailed pc_m | 18:38 |
| badveli | for some reason when i added the service group extension | 18:38 |
| badveli | the unit tests are failing because of | 18:38 |
| pc_m | badveli: So that today (back from PTO), wasn't sure what it was about. | 18:38 |
| badveli | raise webob.exc.HTTPClientError(code=res.status_int) webob.exc.HTTPClientError: The server could not comply with the request since it is either malformed or otherwise incorrect. | 18:39 |
| badveli | i am getting this while running my unit tests | 18:39 |
| pc_m | badveli: Is there a patch up for review? | 18:39 |
| SridarK | badveli: but are u able to manually exercise ur extension ? | 18:39 |
| badveli | yes but because of this issue its not proper | 18:39 |
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| badveli | sridark did not get your point, are you asking i am able to see the extension in neutron via cli? | 18:40 |
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| badveli | previously this code used to work | 18:40 |
| badveli | i am trying to check what is the correct way to write an extension | 18:40 |
| SridarK | badveli: no are u able to send a REST command to see if the server is picking it up and ur extension is picking it up | 18:41 |
| badveli | looks like this is the way from the existing examples | 18:41 |
| SridarK | badveli: u can also look at the router extension work in Kilo for a sample - i can help u as well | 18:42 |
| badveli | sridark did not check that but as far i think | 18:42 |
| badveli | get_resources,get_extended_resources | 18:42 |
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| badveli | should do that, thanks sridark | 18:42 |
| SridarK | badveli: i was trying to ascertain if the issue is only on UT or u have a problem even when u are testing it manually ? | 18:42 |
| badveli | fine sridark did not had much time to spend, i will check that and mail | 18:43 |
| SridarK | badveli: sounds good | 18:43 |
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| badveli | thanks sridark, some thing has changed in kilo looks like the previous code is not working any more | 18:44 |
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| SridarK | badveli: hmm! okay we can discuss offline then ? | 18:45 |
| badveli | yes, thanks | 18:45 |
| SridarK | ok np | 18:45 |
| SridarK | #topic Logging Spec | 18:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Logging Spec (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:46 | |
| SridarK | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132133/ | 18:46 |
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| hoangcx | Hi SridarK and all | 18:46 |
| SridarK | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1468366 | 18:46 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Packet logging API for Neutron" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Yushiro FURUKAWA (y-furukawa-2) | 18:46 |
| SridarK | hoangcx: hi | 18:46 |
| hoangcx | FWaas logging is still discussing at packet-logger API spec as the following #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203509/ | 18:46 |
| SridarK | ok | 18:46 |
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| hoangcx | Please help us to review packet-logger spec. | 18:47 |
| xgerman | #action review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203509/ | 18:47 |
| SridarK | hoangcx: yushiro is not here today, there was query on the older spec - perhaps one of u should respond that u have moved to bug with rfe | 18:48 |
| hoangcx | xgerman: Thanks a lot | 18:48 |
| jwarendt | Thanks for pointing out. | 18:48 |
| SridarK | thanks hoangcx: will do so | 18:48 |
| hoangcx | SridarK: ah, I see. | 18:48 |
| SridarK | hoangcx: anything else u want to bring up | 18:49 |
| hoangcx | That's all for me. and waiting review | 18:50 |
| SridarK | hoangcx: ok thanks for the update | 18:50 |
| SridarK | #topic SG - FWaaS alignment | 18:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SG - FWaaS alignment (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:50 | |
| SridarK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fwaas_use_cases | 18:50 |
| xgerman | #link https://trello.com/b/TIWf4dBJ/fwaas-usecase-categorization | 18:51 |
| SridarK | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fwaas-api-evolution-spec | 18:51 |
| xgerman | we moved the use cases int eh troll board and sorted them | 18:51 |
| SridarK | over to xgerman: | 18:51 |
| xgerman | ok, so at the L4-L7 mid cycle we moved all the use cases into the troll board (linked) | 18:51 |
| SridarK | firstly a huge thanks to xgerman: and sc68cal: for all the inputs here | 18:51 |
| SridarK | xgerman: that was the next link - u beat me to it :-) | 18:52 |
| xgerman | :-) | 18:52 |
| SridarK | pls go ahead all yours | 18:52 |
| jwarendt | Please correct any obvious mistakes if you see them... | 18:52 |
| xgerman | +1 | 18:52 |
| SridarK | jwarendt: no thanks to u as well - i saw ur updates as well | 18:52 |
| sballe | xgerman: wasn't the next step to look at the existing APIs and see what is missing and if we can even reuse them | 18:52 |
| xgerman | yep | 18:53 |
| SridarK | i felt this was great first step | 18:53 |
| SridarK | sballe: agree on this | 18:53 |
| sballe | We have the use cases and then we now need to do a deep dive on the APIs and see where we go from tehre | 18:53 |
| xgerman | +1 | 18:53 |
| SridarK | In looking at the Gaps column - there were a few things which i believe can be addressed in a prioritized manner | 18:54 |
| sballe | What is a good way to move forward from tehre? | 18:54 |
| sballe | SridarK: I agree | 18:54 |
| xgerman | +1 | 18:54 |
| SridarK | and over all i am in total agreement in ur categorization of the buckets | 18:54 |
| sballe | cool! | 18:54 |
| xgerman | great! | 18:54 |
| SridarK | clearly things like DPI are all great but for the future | 18:54 |
| badveli | xgerman trying to see why we have two columns covered by sg and fwaas | 18:54 |
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| mickeys | I agree with most of the categorization, but I do have some comments. I could not add myself to the Trello board, looks like people need to be added manually by people with permission. Then I will be able to comment in Trello. | 18:55 |
| xgerman | what’s your e-mail and then I can add you | 18:56 |
| sballe | badveli Wen we did it it was because we wanted to see what SG covered and what FW covered. Does that answer the quesiton | 18:56 |
| vishwanathj_ | xgerman: please add mine as well vishwanathj@hotmail.com | 18:56 |
| mickeys | emspiege@us.ibm.com | 18:56 |
| badveli | thanks sballe but putting two things one working at port level | 18:57 |
| badveli | and the other one fwaas | 18:57 |
| SridarK | As distilled one line summary - i saw these as a priority: Notion of direction (for outbound reputation), Hit Counters, Audit logs, Point of application (different rules to different ports), Notion of Zones | 18:57 |
| sballe | We did it this way because we wanted to see where the overlap | 18:57 |
| mickeys | If we go for a common superset API, then all of the SG covered items need to be covered by the enhanced FWaaS API | 18:57 |
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| xgerman | bedevil let's not get too involved into technical details | 18:57 |
| sballe | mickeys: That was our thoughts too | 18:58 |
| xgerman | we were just looking at use cases not bow they are implemented | 18:58 |
| badveli | i think both can cover different use cases | 18:58 |
| badveli | ok thanks | 18:58 |
| xgerman | mickeys we were thinking less about a superset API but more of both APIs sharing a common backend | 18:59 |
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| mickeys | Sridar: A big one for me is the ability to refer to a group of addresses or ports, as security groups do today through remote security group | 18:59 |
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| mickeys | If not a superset API, then are we talking about a new security group API in addition to the existing one? So that we can extend and add functionality? | 19:00 |
| SridarK | mickeys: yes i believe i had that on my next list (from the SG + FWaaS column) - and i agree | 19:00 |
| badveli | thanks mickeys initially we wanted to introduce service groups and then address groups | 19:01 |
| mickeys | badveli: No argument with service groups, just saying we need the other one as well | 19:01 |
| SridarK | mickeys: can we may be go thru the feature list first and then we can discuss the API coexistence or we can do that first | 19:01 |
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| xgerman | I think we should make the backends be the same | 19:02 |
| mickeys | Sridar: Just wondering what our context is, one superset API or separate APIs. If that is still open, fine as long as we are all on the same page | 19:02 |
| SridarK | mickeys: yes so lets get the feedback out on the coexistence first | 19:02 |
| sballe | I agree with xgerman. To me the SG is there to have compatiblity with AWS. | 19:03 |
| sballe | so we need to mkae sure SG API stay compatible | 19:03 |
| SridarK | sballe: , xgerman: did u get that kind of consensus in the mid cycle ? | 19:03 |
| sballe | or close to the same | 19:03 |
| mickeys | sballe: Many of us want SG functionality with extensions/enhancements. We need a way forward with that, whether that is an additional SG API or an enhanced superset FWaaS API. | 19:03 |
| xgerman | yes, it’s difficult to replace SG since they are a “stable” API | 19:03 |
| mickeys | In addition to the existing SG API which remains for AWS compatibility | 19:03 |
| sballe | Agreed. I personally like an enhanced superset FWaaS API. | 19:04 |
| jwarendt | +1 | 19:04 |
| SridarK | sballe: +1 | 19:04 |
| xgerman | +1 | 19:04 |
| mickeys | +1 | 19:04 |
| sballe | cool! we are all in agreement :-) | 19:04 |
| SridarK | sballe: but was that the direction at the mid cycle as well ? | 19:04 |
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| xgerman | yes, we also entertained minor enhancements to SG but the bulk should be in FWaaS | 19:05 |
| xgerman | big consensus was to use the same backend | 19:05 |
| badveli | the superset fwaas API will most likely cover the use case | 19:05 |
| sballe | sorry I am back... | 19:05 |
| SridarK | xgerman: on the backend that totally makes sense | 19:05 |
| badveli | that are not part of SG | 19:05 |
| sballe | yes as xgerman said above | 19:06 |
| SridarK | this is good that we have approaching some consensus on the API relationship | 19:06 |
| SridarK | *are | 19:06 |
| badveli | the reason i am trying to say is because of the implementation issues we might not be able to extend the existing SG | 19:07 |
| SridarK | my personal take also was that the AWS compat was a big issue that is important from a deployer perspective | 19:07 |
| badveli | and mostly we can use the superset fwaas API for most of the use cases on the etherpad | 19:07 |
| sballe | SridarK: +1 | 19:08 |
| xgerman | well, there might be use cases which only make sense for SG... | 19:08 |
| sballe | +1 | 19:08 |
| mickeys | xgerman: Depending on how we enhance the FWaaS API, we may be able to cover most of the SG use cases. I hope that is feasible, but we need to flesh that out to be sure. | 19:08 |
| jwarendt | But should still share backend mechanisms even if SG unique use case if possible. | 19:09 |
| sballe | mickeys: I agree and I feel we need to start the investigation | 19:09 |
| SridarK | mickeys: would those mostly involve on where the rules are applied ? | 19:09 |
| mickeys | Yes, if we can associate a firewall or firewall policy with a security group | 19:10 |
| mickeys | Also the remote stuff that I mentioned earlier | 19:10 |
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| mickeys | Whether that is the same notion of security group is a major question that we may need to think about | 19:10 |
| SridarK | mickeys: okay but what if we can associate a FW at VM port level ? | 19:11 |
| badveli | sridark since the SG applies at port level | 19:11 |
| SridarK | badveli: yes | 19:11 |
| mickeys | Sridar: That is useful as well, and I would like all of that to be in the same API, but that is not SG functionality. | 19:11 |
| xgerman | well, we should make that a use case if that is needed | 19:11 |
| mickeys | I asked for ports and for groups, and I believe that is mostly captured in Trello. There was one requirement I had that was left out, probably needs clarification. | 19:12 |
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| badveli | Sridark when we tie up to the port level we might be in a difficult situation if we need to provide more use cases | 19:13 |
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| SridarK | badveli: the port (VM port) is a SG thing for sure | 19:14 |
| mickeys | Tying to port level would not be mandatory, it would be an option, up to the user. Where this gets tricky is if a customer specifies multiple overlapping policies with different associations. | 19:14 |
| xgerman | yep, we talked about hsoe validations and how we should delegate them to the appliance | 19:15 |
| mickeys | Can a customer define one firewall or policy at tenant granularity, and another associated with a port? | 19:15 |
| badveli | yes | 19:15 |
| badveli | it is very tricky | 19:16 |
| SridarK | mickeys: in theory yes, but at this point the association is only with router(s) | 19:16 |
| xgerman | hence, my handwaving | 19:16 |
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| SridarK | The first step may be even at the router i/f level (so different networks can get diff FW associations) | 19:17 |
| badveli | mickeys what is the benefit of tie the policy to a port | 19:17 |
| SridarK | now if we should get to the VM port level - that is open | 19:17 |
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| SridarK | mickeys: i think there is value in not having to replicate rules sets across SG and FW | 19:18 |
| jwarendt | .+1 | 19:18 |
| sballe | SridarK: +1 | 19:18 |
| mickeys | This all ties into the operator versus user (application deployer) aspect in the use cases. If we allow different types of associations that may overlap in arbitrary ways, then the distinction between what an operator wants and what a user wants does not have to be addressed in the API explicitly. The alternative, if we do not, then at a minimum we need to allow overlapping of one operator firewall or policy and one user firewall or policy o | 19:18 |
| mickeys | r SG | 19:18 |
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| mickeys | To the user/application deployer, port is clearly useful | 19:19 |
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| SridarK | we probab should be careful on the overlap so that we have no confusion | 19:20 |
| xgerman | well, it will be difficult for the API to know so it could only be raised at appliance level | 19:21 |
| sballe | +1 | 19:21 |
| SridarK | operator owned resource can be marked shared - but that may not solve this perfectly (i can't share with a specific tenant) | 19:21 |
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| badveli | this is where the problem lies and making SG at port level and the fwaas as it is might be fine? | 19:22 |
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| mickeys | badveli: I hope we can get something more flexible, but we need to figure out what this means in terms of overlap, ACL merge type issues, etc. If this looks too hairy, at a minimum, what you said. | 19:23 |
| badveli | +1 | 19:23 |
| jwarendt | <badveli> SG has some warts but is limited by AWS legacy, part of why extended FWaaS as superset in that direction is appealing. | 19:23 |
| SridarK | mickeys: i think we can go to the etherpad for more articulation on the overlap cases | 19:23 |
| mickeys | +1 | 19:24 |
| xgerman | mickeys +1 Though I think some applicances so a better job with conflict resolution than others - so it’s an implementation detail for me | 19:24 |
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| SridarK | so i think in summary - we like having 2 APIs but we still need to work out the kinks on the overlap cases | 19:24 |
| xgerman | well both APIs drive the same backend which then can deal with the overlap (aka throw an error) | 19:25 |
| xgerman | or intelligently resolve | 19:25 |
| mickeys | Sridar: Not clear what you mean by 2 APIs and where the consensus is. I think there is strong consensus behind the existing SG API for AWS compatibility, and some sort of enhanced FWaaS API. The part where I am not clear is whether the enhanced FWaaS API becomes a superset of FWaaS and SG functionality, or whether we go to 3 APIs: Old SG, new enhanced SG, new FWaaS. | 19:25 |
| badveli | xgerman you give lot of work | 19:26 |
| xgerman | mickeys let’s stick to two APIs | 19:26 |
| xgerman | we put all the new stuff into FWaaS, maybe minor enhancements into SG | 19:26 |
| badveli | 3 API's seems easier | 19:26 |
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| sballe | yeah not three APIs. FW is still expermental so we don't have to keep things around | 19:27 |
| mickeys | That is my preference. We have to work to do to incorporate enhanced SG functionality into the enhanced FWaaS API. | 19:27 |
| SridarK | mickeys: i am saying exactly the same thing but on the 3 APIs - i am still a bit on the wall | 19:27 |
| sballe | mickeys: +1 | 19:27 |
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| xgerman | +! | 19:27 |
| xgerman | +1 | 19:27 |
| SridarK | +1 | 19:28 |
| SridarK | ok folks time keeper kicks in | 19:28 |
| SridarK | so we can continue more articulation on the etherpad | 19:28 |
| xgerman | or trello | 19:28 |
| sballe | oh no we were having so much fun :-) | 19:28 |
| SridarK | but this is great | 19:28 |
| mickeys | I assume we are referring to the API evolution etherpad? | 19:28 |
| xgerman | +1 | 19:28 |
| SridarK | mickeys: yes | 19:28 |
| SridarK | #topic Open Discussion | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 19:29 | |
| SridarK | anything folks wanted to bring up | 19:29 |
| SridarK | before we close out | 19:29 |
| xgerman | in 60s | 19:29 |
| badveli | xgerman are we tracking using etherpad or trello | 19:29 |
| SridarK | this was an hour well spent | 19:29 |
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| xgerman | I am mostly on the ether pad those days but can copy things over | 19:30 |
| badveli | ok thanks | 19:30 |
| SridarK | xgerman: +1 lets do that | 19:30 |
| xgerman | trello | 19:30 |
| xgerman | actually I men trello | 19:30 |
| SridarK | ok we end | 19:30 |
| vishwanathj_ | Bye | 19:31 |
| badveli | ok thanks | 19:31 |
| SridarK | #endmeeting | 19:31 |
| sballe | SridarK: Thanks for a great meeting | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:31 | |
| hoangcx | Bye | 19:31 |
| SridarK | bye all | 19:31 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 29 19:31:03 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:31 |
| badveli | bye | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2015/networking_fwaas.2015-07-29-18.32.html | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2015/networking_fwaas.2015-07-29-18.32.txt | 19:31 |
| sballe | bye | 19:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2015/networking_fwaas.2015-07-29-18.32.log.html | 19:31 |
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| jwarendt | Thanks. | 19:31 |
| SridarK | sballe: thx - great discussion and feedback from the meetup | 19:31 |
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| matt-borland | o/ | 19:58 |
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| rdopiera | hi | 20:00 |
| matt-borland | hello! | 20:00 |
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| tqtran | [_]/ | 20:02 |
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| TravT | tqtran: we can touch base after this on your patch. i have 30 minutes open right after the irc meeting | 20:04 |
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| tqtran | sure thing | 20:04 |
| tqtran | where is our esteemed PTL? | 20:04 |
| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 20:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 29 20:05:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 20:05 |
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| david-lyle | sorry lost in space and time | 20:05 |
| david-lyle | hello everyone | 20:05 |
| TravT | o/ | 20:06 |
| tyr | howdy! | 20:06 |
| hurgleburgler | (◕‿◕✿)ノ | 20:06 |
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| rhagarty | o/ | 20:06 |
| matt-borland | guten tag | 20:06 |
| fnordahl | good evening | 20:06 |
| doug-fish | hi | 20:06 |
| rdopiera | gruetzi | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | let's get rolling | 20:07 |
| david-lyle | We tagged L-2 yesterday, so 2/3 of the way through liberty | 20:08 |
| david-lyle | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/liberty/liberty-2 | 20:08 |
| david-lyle | Translation support for angular is probably the biggest item in that list | 20:09 |
| TravT | Speaking of that, is that all done? | 20:10 |
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| TravT | did all the patches land needed for angular-gettext? | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | all patches linked to the bp | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | did | 20:10 |
| david-lyle | if others are unattached, I don't know | 20:11 |
| TravT | doug-fish: tqtran: can I start using the filter syntax now? | 20:11 |
| tqtran | yes | 20:11 |
| matt-borland | excellent | 20:11 |
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| matt-borland | thanks | 20:11 |
| TravT | ok, cool. i'll update my TODO out there then. | 20:11 |
| david-lyle | Also we held the first Horizon midcycle last week in Fort Collins, CO | 20:12 |
| hurgleburgler | yay! | 20:12 |
| david-lyle | there were ~20 people in attendance from 3 continents | 20:12 |
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| david-lyle | overall a very productive sprint type gathering, IMO | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | thanks to all who could participate | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | the video link broke down on day one and networking difficulties prohibited using it beyond that | 20:13 |
| david-lyle | so apologies to all who were remote | 20:13 |
| TravT | +1, thanks everybody who could make it. | 20:14 |
| david-lyle | Just want to touch on the priorities | 20:15 |
| david-lyle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-horizon-liberty-priorities | 20:15 |
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| TravT | I'd like to focus my reviews the next few days on helping complete in flight re-org and jscs cleanup. Is what's listed on the https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-horizon-liberty-priorities up to date? | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | most of the top priority items remain open | 20:16 |
| tqtran | Translation is complete, so I dont think its all up to date | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | if we can get the tech debt finished off (at least that listed) | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | That will help a great deal | 20:17 |
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| david-lyle | My work on plugins has been side tracked with testing issues | 20:17 |
| david-lyle | although lhcheng is working on moving trove to /contrib and robcresswell is removing the router dash from horizon | 20:18 |
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| david-lyle | so some forward progress is still being made | 20:18 |
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| david-lyle | django 1.8 still looms | 20:19 |
| ducttape_ | django 1.8 looked like it had small patches to move it forward https://review.openstack.org/#/c/201734/ is next | 20:19 |
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| david-lyle | I tried that but saw issues | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | not sure the source | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | will look more after testing issues resolved | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | if someone doesn't beat me to it | 20:20 |
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| * david-lyle is a slow runner | 20:20 | |
| tyr | TravT: The dash reorg patch series starts with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197353 and is now stable. No additional patches are planned. This will complete the re-org work and unblock JSCS. | 20:20 |
| david-lyle | ducttape_: did try curvature on a decent sized topology and it was a vast improvement on the existing network topology so please give that a look | 20:21 |
| ducttape_ | I also tried it again, and it did not draw the graph correctly. not sure if that is bad data or bad code | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | doh | 20:22 |
| ducttape_ | it works well for simpler network setups though | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | more testing would be good by many people | 20:22 |
| fnordahl | link to patchset? | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | LMLPTFY: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/curvature-network-topology | 20:23 |
| david-lyle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199063/ | 20:23 |
| fnordahl | thx | 20:23 |
| david-lyle | not that patch | 20:23 |
| david-lyle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141078/ | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | that patch | 20:24 |
| fnordahl | heh, k thx | 20:24 |
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| david-lyle | not sure what the second one is about | 20:24 |
| fnordahl | :-) | 20:24 |
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| TravT | ducttape_: you comment is kinda funny. | 20:24 |
| TravT | ducttape: you said there are intermittent bugs, but okay to merge? | 20:25 |
| ducttape_ | I think so, it's tough to object becasue the problems I have seen are in our dev environment - where we do all sorts of crazy things | 20:25 |
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| ducttape_ | could be a bunch of bad things exist in our neutron db | 20:25 |
| david-lyle | more eyes would be better | 20:26 |
| TravT | ok. i'm happy to try it out, but my dev env in no way replicates a real network env. | 20:26 |
| fnordahl | I'll test. | 20:26 |
| david-lyle | TravT: this view is for the projects panel | 20:26 |
| ducttape_ | yep, this patch set really shines when you have more than one tenant network and several instances | 20:26 |
| david-lyle | so while a high level of complexity is possible, it may not be prevalent | 20:27 |
| ducttape_ | I'd say 3-4 tenant networks with 5 instances on each network if probably more complex than average | 20:27 |
| ducttape_ | if/is | 20:27 |
| TravT | that's not too bad to setup | 20:28 |
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| fnordahl | Speaking of networking: | 20:28 |
| fnordahl | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/neutron-subnet-allocation | 20:28 |
| fnordahl | I have proposed a implementation of the first phase of this blueprint, and would really like to have comments, insults, cheers, feedback and reviews of the patchsets linked to on the Whiteboard. | 20:28 |
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| david-lyle | fnordahl: looks like amotoki is reviewing, that's the best first step | 20:29 |
| david-lyle | that's all the general items I had | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | #topic Feature Branches | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature Branches (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 20:30 | |
| david-lyle | I promised to look into what Feature Branches would entail | 20:31 |
| david-lyle | #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/drivers.html | 20:31 |
| david-lyle | is the best write up I found | 20:31 |
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| matt-borland | david-lyle: thanks for looking into that | 20:32 |
| david-lyle | so I think I need release mgmt team to create branches we would need | 20:32 |
| ducttape_ | I think neutron used feature branch for DVR work, they might have tricks to learn | 20:33 |
| david-lyle | and commit rights would be based on convention | 20:33 |
| matt-borland | and this would be for particularly big sets of changes, right? | 20:33 |
| david-lyle | swift used them for erasure codes as well | 20:34 |
| david-lyle | matt-borland: yes | 20:34 |
| TravT | i'm wondering what comprises a feature branch. | 20:34 |
| TravT | in our work. | 20:34 |
| * notmyname can answer questions about feature branches in swift | 20:34 | |
| david-lyle | flow: branch created, feature developed, iterations, then one big merge at the end | 20:34 |
| matt-borland | probably not the panels I'm working with...I think we have a simple patch structure that will work for now | 20:35 |
| david-lyle | notmyname: investigating for long running features | 20:35 |
| david-lyle | s/running/building/ | 20:35 |
| notmyname | there's a few things that we've found to be vital. one big one is frequently merging master to the feature branch | 20:35 |
| matt-borland | makes sense | 20:35 |
| TravT | notmyname: does gerrit still do merge conflict detection on the feature branch automatically on each patch | 20:36 |
| TravT | ? | 20:36 |
| TravT | that lands on master | 20:36 |
| notmyname | also, because a feature branch (as we've used them) is intentionally "separate", we don't actually merge the feature branch itself. we refactor the patches on the feature branch as a set of logical patches, then do one merge commit to master | 20:36 |
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| notmyname | TravT: yes, and the UI for it is wonky. mostly, we ignore that part and focus on what git tells us | 20:37 |
| david-lyle | notmyname: so do you lose the git history of the branch? | 20:37 |
| david-lyle | since it's a merge, it should be maintained no? | 20:38 |
| notmyname | no, we tag the original feature branch (and close it for new patches) so we still have the whole history | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | so you don't actually merge from the feature branch | 20:38 |
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| david-lyle | new patches | 20:38 |
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| david-lyle | didn't grok it the first time :P | 20:39 |
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| david-lyle | why not just a large merge? | 20:39 |
| david-lyle | I can also follow up offline | 20:40 |
| ducttape_ | you might have a much more complex merge / history on master, for not much value | 20:40 |
| notmyname | we created a feature branch: feature/ec. then, every week(-ish) we'd merge master to feature/ec. dev work continued on feature/ec for nearly a year. then we tagged feature/ec, refactored the patches onto feature/ec-review and proposed one merge commit to master from that | 20:40 |
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| notmyname | the reason we clean up the git history is so that we have something that's (1) easy to review and reason about in logical chunks and (2) later we'll be able to see the logical flow of the implementation | 20:40 |
| notmyname | and we do the single merge commit to master so that future debug work (eg with git bisect) will have a single point in history where the feature is introduced | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | ok, I think that makes sense | 20:41 |
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| david-lyle | thanks notmyname, I may have more questions later | 20:41 |
| notmyname | we've completed 2 and currently have 2 open now | 20:42 |
| notmyname | david-lyle: any time | 20:42 |
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| david-lyle | ok stepping back a bit, we started talking about feature branches for a couple of reasons | 20:42 |
| david-lyle | one was the desire to work collaboratively on a complex feature incrementally has proved difficult with patch chains 10 deep | 20:43 |
| david-lyle | two was to resist the desire to merge partial features | 20:43 |
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| ducttape_ | I think we found a better example of how to do ng patches, in a single review too | 20:44 |
| david-lyle | some of the work recently has been tagged as taking the first step, but in a few cases it has resulted in/proposed an non-functional panel | 20:44 |
| david-lyle | right, so the two options were, if people feel the need to build incrementally, they could use a feature branch | 20:45 |
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| david-lyle | or just implement the full feature, or a useful chunk before proposing the patch to add said feature | 20:46 |
| TravT | I think that you (david-lyle) had proposed that the patches could be broken up just in logical functional chunks and that'd be okay. | 20:46 |
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| TravT | I think that makes sense. | 20:46 |
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| david-lyle | TravT: That is fine, but the other patches should be existant, not just promises | 20:47 |
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| TravT | and for disabled panels, I'm not seeing a large amount of harm in doing it that way. | 20:47 |
| david-lyle | I disagree | 20:47 |
| ducttape_ | howso TravT? | 20:47 |
| david-lyle | it's dead code | 20:47 |
| TravT | also, i think it is wrong to tell people to not submit their work as reviews even if in WIP state | 20:47 |
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| TravT | they should however mark as wip | 20:47 |
| ducttape_ | yeah, WIP reviews are fine / anything goes. however, it is polite to not try to flood openstack infra with check jobs | 20:48 |
| david-lyle | so adds complexity, maintenance for something that's not really there | 20:48 |
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| doug-fish | also related text get picked up for translation | 20:48 |
| david-lyle | it should be merged to tree when it adds value and is usable | 20:48 |
| tyr | The review is really the bottleneck. Patches need to be small in order to move through. Feature branches might be nice for the collaborative development, but still suffer a big bang review at the end. How do we accomodate that? | 20:48 |
| TravT | not arguing that david-lyle | 20:48 |
| TravT | i did say logical, functioning parts | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | I think the disagreement would be on "functional" | 20:49 |
| TravT | for example, with images, i originally also had non-working action buttons, but after heeding your feedback removed that | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | TravT: and that's good | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | but an empty panel is of no value | 20:50 |
| ducttape_ | tyr - if you want speed, go with a feature branch. master will have greater weight on quality / stability | 20:50 |
| david-lyle | which was another example | 20:50 |
| TravT | david-lyle: that's fair... | 20:50 |
| matt-borland | I think the point about having lined up the "next level of useful patches" is probably a good one. | 20:50 |
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| david-lyle | another was buttons but no backend implementation for the actions | 20:50 |
| TravT | although, we probably need to up some base patches for enabling angular on each dashboard. | 20:50 |
| TravT | and merge those in. | 20:50 |
| david-lyle | TravT: I'd argue we have | 20:50 |
| ducttape_ | yeah, we had a good example of how to do angular reasonably well, patch escapes me atm | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | there's a lot of angular code in tree, and the end user sees very little result of that yet | 20:51 |
| tyr | ducttape_: My point was that a feature branch makes an even larger review...so at some point, commits are broken down into a series of small, easily reviewable pieces anyhow. | 20:51 |
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| TravT | well, on the images panel, i did put up some extra module stuff just for enablement... partially due to the whole webroot issue | 20:51 |
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| ducttape_ | one big review, where everything works.... vs 10 small reviews, where you aren't sure what should or should not work.... I think the bigger patch is the way to go. total review time would be less as well | 20:52 |
| TravT | i don't know about that ducttape_ | 20:52 |
| matt-borland | every time we try that people say the patch is too big and must be broken apart | 20:52 |
| TravT | we abused tqtran for over a year with that strategy | 20:53 |
| ducttape_ | or it seems like it should be less, because everything should be working | 20:53 |
| matt-borland | there are also some issues with cross-functionality, | 20:53 |
| matt-borland | especially with API pathes | 20:53 |
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| matt-borland | *patches | 20:53 |
| TravT | i think reasonable functional level patches make some sense... | 20:53 |
| david-lyle | maybe we shouldn't be tackling so much new at once and spend some more time fixing things like broken selenium tests and integration tests | 20:53 |
| david-lyle | then the risk of conflict goes down | 20:54 |
| ducttape_ | or fixing existing bugs | 20:54 |
| tyr | With or without feature branches we end up wanting something like 1) each patch is small but functional, 2) most of the patches are in place to be able to see the whole picture. | 20:54 |
| david-lyle | fix a bug in master, back port to kilo or juno and operators will actually see it :) | 20:55 |
| david-lyle | tyr, true, but the functionality should be there | 20:55 |
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| david-lyle | and ready to review | 20:55 |
| TravT | david-lyle, ducttape_ made a good point earlier about zuul testing on WIP patches... | 20:56 |
| matt-borland | david-lyle: wrt panel patches, I do feel that after our discussion we have a good structure that satisfies our interests. | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | indeed he did | 20:56 |
| TravT | if we WIP the workflow, that still churns up zuul doesn't it? | 20:56 |
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| ducttape_ | I have noticed a lot of people with like 40 or 50 patches for a change. if you can, avoid doing so many changes | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | feature branches would too | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | I think coming with a more fully realized feature would reduce churn | 20:57 |
| david-lyle | but I can't ever argue with collaboration | 20:57 |
| TravT | i will say that sometimes a lot of patches come in in spurts because people are addressing review comments quickly and getting further review | 20:57 |
| TravT | there is nothing wrong with that IMO. | 20:57 |
| david-lyle | that said, I have used github to collaborate on Horizon patches with other devs in the past | 20:57 |
| matt-borland | yeah, that is a good thing TravT | 20:57 |
| TravT | but I do see that we should try to ensure all comments are addressed in each submission if possible... etc, to lessen the churn. | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | I think 50 patch sets on relatively minor changes is extreme | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | the tools are the tools. My main beef is with non-feature realizing patches with nothing following | 20:59 |
| david-lyle | that's just silly, IMO | 20:59 |
| matt-borland | yep, I think we've agreed on that | 20:59 |
| matt-borland | I will strongly push back when people ask to break my Panel patch into smaller patches | 21:00 |
| tyr | Yes, being able to download the final patch to see the big picture...even when reviewing only the 1st part is very helpful. | 21:00 |
| david-lyle | we're at time, I did want to welcome rdopiera back though | 21:00 |
| TravT | rdopiera: good to see you around! | 21:00 |
| lhcheng | I try to read all the PS comments before approving to make sure all comments are addressed - a little less patch set for smaller change would be nice to speed-up review. | 21:00 |
| hurgleburgler | rdopiera: welcome back! | 21:01 |
| doug-fish | rdopiera: yes, good to have you back! | 21:01 |
| tqtran_ | rdopiera: wb!!! | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | did you have anything you wanted to add before we close rdopiera? I'm trying to get to the config file patch | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | any further discussion in #openstack-horizon as usual | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | thanks everyone | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 29 21:02:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-07-29-20.05.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-07-29-20.05.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2015/horizon.2015-07-29-20.05.log.html | 21:02 |
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| rdopiera | TravT, hurgleburgler: thanks! | 21:08 |
| rdopiera | david-lyle: thanks | 21:08 |
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