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| j^2 | o/ | 15:59 |
|---|---|---|
| jklare | o7 | 15:59 |
| calbers | o/ | 15:59 |
| jklare | #startmeeting openstack-chef | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 8 15:59:57 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jklare. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_chef' | 16:00 |
| jklare | hey everybody | 16:00 |
| j^2 | hey hey! | 16:00 |
| calbers | hi there | 16:00 |
| jklare | any topics from you guys for today? | 16:00 |
| j^2 | nope, though we’ll probably have some Doc Reviews coming in from a few people | 16:01 |
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| j^2 | they want ATC and asked me what the easiest way to get it from openstack-chef. | 16:01 |
| j^2 | i said docs, god we need better docs | 16:01 |
| jklare | our docs or our stuff in the docs repo? | 16:02 |
| j^2 | both? | 16:02 |
| sc` | o/ | 16:02 |
| markvan | yo | 16:02 |
| jklare | cool | 16:02 |
| jklare | hey sc` markvan | 16:02 |
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| sc` | will be good to get some more docs, especially from the outside | 16:03 |
| jklare | #topic refactoring (The same procedure as every year, James!) | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "refactoring (The same procedure as every year, James!) (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:03 | |
| jklare | yeah, we need to update a lot of stuff after we merged the refactored cookbooks | 16:04 |
| jklare | all the READMEs in the cookbooks and of course all the docs in the docs repo | 16:04 |
| jklare | not sure how that links to each other | 16:04 |
| markvan | I see the repo is getting thru the gate, but failing at the end with that odd tempest issue. Good to see this coming together | 16:05 |
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| jklare | markvan yeah, i actually have no idea why its failing | 16:06 |
| sc` | i ran an allinone locally on my mac with the patches last week and it completed from a chef point of view. didn't try tempest | 16:06 |
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| jklare | this tempest error we get looks like the command is run in the wrong or without a virtualenv | 16:06 |
| jklare | missing something in its path | 16:07 |
| jklare | but i have not looked into that in detail | 16:07 |
| jklare | i pushed patches for all of your comments markvan | 16:07 |
| markvan | yup, looks does not appear to be related to this refactoring, we could blacklist it if we want more green light. | 16:07 |
| jklare | :D | 16:07 |
| jklare | i think we should fix it | 16:08 |
| jklare | but we still can start merging since its non-voting | 16:08 |
| markvan | yeah, just some final cleanups, I'll go thru them again shortly and we can start pushing after that. | 16:08 |
| jklare | great | 16:08 |
| jklare | sc` j^2 can any of you spare some hours this week for review? | 16:08 |
| sc` | after building allinone i was tempted to +wf the patches with a +2 | 16:08 |
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| j^2 | jklare: yeah i should be able to | 16:09 |
| markvan | just for sack of mind, we could push a temp patch to the repo without and deps to see if the tempest fails with "old" master | 16:09 |
| sc` | +1 | 16:09 |
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| jklare | i think we still need to clean up some stuff, but that can be done in additional smaller patches | 16:09 |
| jklare | i do not like to keep working on this ones util its perfect | 16:09 |
| jklare | makes code review quite hard | 16:10 |
| markvan | agreed, more cleanups at this point is just churn | 16:10 |
| sc` | same here. if they converge, let's get them in master and clean it up later | 16:10 |
| sc` | i want external folks to start banging away on some of this soon | 16:10 |
| jklare | got somebody in mind sc` ? | 16:10 |
| markvan | so maybe we should spend a bit a time on that tempest issue (from both sides, why it failing and does it fail without the refactor) | 16:10 |
| jklare | because we still need more docs on how to use it and what we changed | 16:10 |
| markvan | and at some time we can do final reviews | 16:11 |
| sc` | maybe someone from my team. have to talk it over internally. we're looking at either liberty or mitaka, mitaka if it's released by the time we get to 'upgrading' | 16:11 |
| jklare | actually i would love to get that tempest issue fixed, but i have to focus a bit more on utilising the refactored cookbooks for our own deployment | 16:11 |
| jklare | got some deadlines there | 16:11 |
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| jklare | my idea is to use the cookbooks for a real multi node deployment and fix/cleanup things on the way | 16:12 |
| sc` | makes sense | 16:12 |
| sc` | i don't want to spend a whole lot of extra time finessing the patches. if they work (and they appear to), let's start pushing some code | 16:13 |
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| markvan | tempest check patch: https://review.openstack.org/277480 | 16:13 |
| jklare | sure, but we still need to fix that tempest issue, since our integration jobs should work before we could call something stable | 16:13 |
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| jklare | markvan cool, lets hope it fails :) | 16:14 |
| sc` | yup. just adding my $0.02 :) | 16:14 |
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| jklare | ? | 16:14 |
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| sc` | wrong window | 16:15 |
| jklare | :D | 16:15 |
| jklare | i hoped you wanted to start betting on the gate job :) | 16:15 |
| j^2 | ha! | 16:15 |
| jklare | anything else directly related to the refactoring? | 16:16 |
| jklare | i have another small topic | 16:16 |
| jklare | #topic core-reviewers | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "core-reviewers (Meeting topic: openstack-chef)" | 16:17 | |
| jklare | so, as you might have noticed, we have 2 new groups in gerrit -> openstack-chef-core and openstack-chef-release | 16:18 |
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| jklare | i moved all of you ( sc`, markvan and j^2 ) into that new group as well as zhiwei | 16:19 |
| j^2 | sounds good | 16:19 |
| sc` | right on | 16:19 |
| markvan | +1 | 16:19 |
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| jklare | what should happen with the other members of the old openstack-manager-core group | 16:20 |
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| j^2 | it’s safe to say they aren’t around anymore, time to say goodbye | 16:20 |
| jklare | alan meados, christopher m luciano, ma wen cheng and matt ray | 16:20 |
| j^2 | yep | 16:20 |
| jklare | i agree with j^2 here | 16:21 |
| sc` | i'd say if they're not around, they're not interested (right now) in the project or have time to spare | 16:21 |
| jklare | but i wanted to mention it to not just remove people without consensus | 16:21 |
| j^2 | the last time i saw alan was in Vancouver :( | 16:22 |
| sc` | of course. we have to be transparent in stuff like this | 16:22 |
| j^2 | Chris i think is a different part of IBM now | 16:22 |
| markvan | I think ma wen cheng is still around, but dn't know his status, but with zhiwei on there, I think we're good | 16:22 |
| j^2 | and Matt is still my boss, but he has little todo with OpenStack as a whole now | 16:23 |
| jklare | ok great | 16:23 |
| j^2 | he’ll want ATC again for austin, but i think it’s safe to say he’s not around anymore either | 16:23 |
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| jklare | any comments on the other group (openstack-chef-release) ? only members of this group are allowed to push signed tags (what i did) and currently i am the only member because infra does not want to have to many people pushing tags | 16:24 |
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| sc` | works for me | 16:24 |
| jklare | i think we should only put our current PTL in this group and he or she should be the only one that pushed tags and does the release related stuff | 16:24 |
| sc` | makes sense | 16:25 |
| markvan | sounds good | 16:25 |
| j^2 | totally, it’s part of the responsibility of the PTL to do that | 16:25 |
| jklare | ok cool | 16:26 |
| jklare | while we are at it, does any of you want to take over the PTL for the next cycle? | 16:26 |
| sc` | i was considering it | 16:27 |
| jklare | great | 16:27 |
| markvan | +1 for sc` | 16:27 |
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| sc` | still have to deliver mitaka this cycle :D | 16:28 |
| jklare | sure | 16:28 |
| jklare | but i think we make good progress here | 16:28 |
| jklare | but next cycle i will have to focus a bit more in internal stuff | 16:28 |
| sc` | definitely. i'll start looking into what needs to be done for centos | 16:28 |
| jklare | yeah, centos is a quite interesting topic in that regard | 16:29 |
| jklare | most of the refactoring was just pointed to ubuntu | 16:29 |
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| sc` | packages have been getting more stable, way faster after the CI overhaul | 16:29 |
| jklare | so maybe we should focus on more centos support and especially centos testing next cycle | 16:29 |
| sc` | so now we're behind instead of waiting | 16:29 |
| markvan | yeah, would be good to see a centos gate test, which I think is totally possible in infra now | 16:30 |
| jklare | i think the nodes are there and we should be able to build both | 16:30 |
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| sc` | yeah. would be nice to have a gate for each platform we say we support | 16:31 |
| jklare | rhel might be hard | 16:31 |
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| sc` | rhel might have to be unit tests only | 16:31 |
| sc` | suse too, if support ever comes back | 16:31 |
| jklare | i would not bet on that | 16:31 |
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| j^2 | yeah the suse guys hard forked us a long time agon | 16:32 |
| j^2 | I’ve had some conversations with aspires about it, it ain’t coming back to us…probably ever | 16:32 |
| jklare | yeah, but maybe they like the new and shiny versions of our cookbooks | 16:32 |
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| sc` | good to know | 16:32 |
| j^2 | unlikely, they have spent _tons_ of money doing what they need to get done to build their “enterprise friendly ha OS cloud” | 16:33 |
| jklare | and in the end its better to support just 2 platforms with good testing than support 5 without tests or maintenance for most of them | 16:33 |
| j^2 | they have no desire to come back to the community | 16:33 |
| sc` | like i said earlier, my team is going to be switching gears to a newer release of openstack. we want to target mitaka, but will do liberty if it's not done | 16:33 |
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| sc` | so there may be some patches from them. again, timing | 16:34 |
| jklare | ok, i guess we are already in open discussion | 16:35 |
| jklare | does any of you have more topics for the meeting or should we move the discussion to our channel? | 16:35 |
| sc` | i'm good. we can move things to our regular channel | 16:35 |
| markvan | I think I might see the issue with tempest | 16:35 |
| jklare | ? | 16:36 |
| markvan | it looks like a recent test addition, but requires tempest to actually be "pip" installed, not just cloned. I don't see anywhere in the integration cookbook where we install it | 16:36 |
| jklare | i think we clone the repo and install everything into a venv | 16:37 |
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| sc` | tempest is packaged in rdo now | 16:37 |
| sc` | not sure about ubuntu | 16:37 |
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| markvan | humm, but I don't think the venv contains tempest itself, just the other dependencies | 16:37 |
| sc` | yeah. all i see is the 'git clone' for tempest | 16:38 |
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| markvan | I guess a couple of debug lines in the gate would show what installed in the venv and verify this guess | 16:38 |
| markvan | none of the other test cases actually run "tempest" within the testing suite, until this one showed up in late Nov 15 | 16:39 |
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| jklare | sounds like a good start markvan | 16:40 |
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| markvan | but I guess I don't really care about testing the tempest cmd line within our integration test, so I vote for blacklisting it | 16:40 |
| jklare | :D | 16:40 |
| markvan | unless the plugin list is really meaningful to someone? | 16:41 |
| sc` | yeah | 16:41 |
| jklare | at least we should not spend to much time with this | 16:41 |
| sc` | if it doesn't look like it makes sense, take it out. if someone cares enough, they'll add it back | 16:41 |
| jklare | i think we can just blacklist it for now | 16:41 |
| markvan | There are plenty of other tempest tests we could add that would actaully hit openstack itself that we could spend time on | 16:41 |
| markvan | ok, I'll take a look at what it takes to blacklist it...have not done that in a while now | 16:42 |
| jklare | great | 16:42 |
| jklare | ok, i guess thats all for the meeting for today | 16:43 |
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| * markvan grounded in central iowa blizzard...but it's great, I'm with my granddaughter! | 16:43 | |
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| jklare | thanks for attenting | 16:43 |
| jklare | and see your around in the channel | 16:43 |
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| sc` | see you there! | 16:43 |
| markvan | ;) | 16:43 |
| jklare | #endmeeting | 16:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 8 16:43:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-02-08-15.59.html | 16:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-02-08-15.59.txt | 16:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-02-08-15.59.log.html | 16:43 |
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| jroll | #startmeeting ironic | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 8 17:00:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jroll. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 17:00 |
| davidlenwell | o/ | 17:00 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 17:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 17:00 |
| jroll | hey everyone :) | 17:00 |
| rpioso | o/ | 17:00 |
| lucasagomes | hi there | 17:00 |
| NobodyCam | o/ | 17:00 |
| mkovacik | o/ | 17:00 |
| jroll | as always, the agenda is here: | 17:00 |
| mgould | o/ | 17:00 |
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| stendulker | o/ | 17:00 |
| jroll | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 17:00 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 17:00 |
| rloo | o/ | 17:00 |
| jroll | #topic announcements and reminders | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements and reminders (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:01 | |
| TheJulia | o/ | 17:01 |
| jroll | #info midcycle is next week! if you haven't yet, please rsvp here and add any topics you wish to discuss https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-mitaka-midcycle | 17:01 |
| jroll | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-mitaka-midcycle | 17:01 |
| JayF | o/ | 17:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 17:01 |
| jroll | #info ironic meeting for february 15 will be cancelled due to midcycle | 17:01 |
| rloo | jroll: why cancel the meeting? | 17:02 |
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| jroll | I'm still evaluating a/v systems, I'd like to come back to that in open discussion | 17:02 |
| sambetts | o/ | 17:02 |
| jroll | rloo: any point to having it if we're having three days worth of meetings? | 17:02 |
| jroll | I'd rather not | 17:02 |
| rloo | jroll: i wasn't going to attend the meeting, but it seems separate. | 17:03 |
| jroll | we typically cancel the midcycle week's meeting, idk | 17:03 |
| jroll | we can have one if folks want to, I'd prefer not to | 17:03 |
| rloo | jroll: i'm fine with cancelling. just askin in case others aren't. i think we typically cancel cuz the midcycle IS happening that day. | 17:03 |
| dtantsur | I will be on PTO on Monday | 17:03 |
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| rloo | jroll: continue on, there are no nays. sorry about that. | 17:04 |
| jroll | no worries | 17:04 |
| jroll | does anyone have other reminders or announcements? | 17:04 |
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| jroll | #topic subteam status reports | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam status reports (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:05 | |
| jroll | as always, these are on the whiteboard: | 17:05 |
| jroll | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard | 17:05 |
| jroll | beginning at line 173 | 17:06 |
| jroll | I'll give folks a few moments to review/update | 17:06 |
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| rloo | dtantsur: 19 high bugs? that seems like a lot. Maybe we should deal with those in midcycle | 17:07 |
| dtantsur | rloo, yeah, though we have some high bugs that are not easy to solve | 17:07 |
| betherly | o/ | 17:07 |
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| dtantsur | we also have way too many assigned/in progress bugs | 17:07 |
| JayF | IDK where in subteam status it'd best fit; but TinyIPA merged | 17:08 |
| dtantsur | I don't have time to check whether people are actually working on them | 17:08 |
| dtantsur | JayF, \o/ | 17:08 |
| jroll | \o/ | 17:08 |
| rloo | JayF: under testing I think. | 17:08 |
| zer0c00l | JayF: Yay | 17:08 |
| sambetts | whoop! | 17:08 |
| rloo | JayF: and yeah, yay! | 17:08 |
| NobodyCam | :) nice | 17:08 |
| rloo | dtantsur: too many meaning no patches or patches waiting to be reviewed or ? | 17:09 |
| mgould | JayF: yay! | 17:09 |
| dtantsur | rloo, I didn't check it, just my gut feeling that 116 in progress bugs is too much | 17:09 |
| jroll | +1 dtantsur | 17:09 |
| rloo | dtantsur: ahh. didn't we have some sort of rule that if assigned/progress with no patch after x time, we unassign? | 17:10 |
| dtantsur | it might be due to the gate problems we've experienced though. needs investigation | 17:10 |
| rloo | dtantsur: maybe something to do in midcycle? | 17:10 |
| dtantsur | rloo, we do have such rule, which I usually manually enforce ;) | 17:10 |
| jlvillal | dtantsur: I know that there are some people who assign bugs to themselves and then I don't see progress on them. I'm talking about people who don't attend this meeting. | 17:10 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, sambetts w00ts for tinyipa | 17:10 |
| jroll | rloo: added to the midcycle list | 17:11 |
| rloo | jlvillal: I suspect we're all guilty of that. | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | rloo, we do forget a bug or two usually (I definitely do), but some people assign dozens to themselves | 17:11 |
| dtantsur | and often disappear | 17:11 |
| rloo | dtantsur: ok, we need a bug scrub or something. let's add to midcycle. | 17:12 |
| devananda | ++ bug scrub | 17:12 |
| jlvillal | rloo: yes. It can happen. | 17:12 |
| devananda | also, I wonder if other teams have any automation around unassigning inactive bugs | 17:12 |
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| lucasagomes | that would be a good thing to check/have | 17:13 |
| jlvillal | Also on bug scrub, I don't think we should be too shy about unassigning bugs if no progress and we can't contact them. | 17:13 |
| devananda | jlvillal: ++ | 17:13 |
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| [1]cdearborn | o/ | 17:13 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: I posted a question on the dracclient gov review | 17:14 |
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| rloo | wrt tinyipa; it merged so it is being used in gate? | 17:14 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, thanks will take a look | 17:14 |
| jroll | whoever added "updates to docs.o.o" and "effectiveness of setting priorities" to the midcycle etherpad, could you please add your name? :) | 17:14 |
| jroll | rloo: still waiting on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/269684/ | 17:15 |
| jroll | sambetts: apparently that needs an update | 17:15 |
| rloo | jroll: thx | 17:15 |
| sambetts | :( more rebase | 17:15 |
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| rloo | dtantsur: thx for the ipa + inspector test | 17:16 |
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| dtantsur | :) | 17:16 |
| jroll | +1 | 17:16 |
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| jroll | anything else in this section? | 17:17 |
| jroll | #topic breaking change in dhcp_factory.DHCPFactory.update_dhcp(). How to handle it? | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "breaking change in dhcp_factory.DHCPFactory.update_dhcp(). How to handle it? (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:17 | |
| jroll | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/206245/53/ironic/common/dhcp_factory.py | 17:17 |
| jroll | rloo: this is you | 17:17 |
| rloo | jroll: so that was merged last week I think. | 17:17 |
| rloo | jroll: and there is a change to the update_dhcp() method | 17:17 |
| rloo | jroll: which isn't backwards compatible with any out-of-tree implementations. | 17:18 |
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| rloo | jroll: should we have allowed that change? is it OK and we 'just' need a reno about it? not sure what to do about it besides not bring it up:) | 17:18 |
| devananda | we don't explicitly guarantee stability of that interface the way we do with the driver API | 17:18 |
| jroll | rloo: right, I believe we discussed this in the ironic/neutron meeting and agreed that it was okay, and we should reno/email about it | 17:18 |
| jroll | because what deva saisd | 17:18 |
| lucasagomes | I think we should send an email to ML with a headsup for people saying that we may break their out of free dhcp plugin code | 17:18 |
| jroll | said* | 17:18 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, jroll yeah, but if we can avoid we may should | 17:19 |
| lucasagomes | like we could have another method to update the vifs for portgroups | 17:19 |
| lucasagomes | update_dhcp_portgroup() or something like that | 17:19 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: right, this was fairly unavoidable without getting insane | 17:19 |
| JayF | Do we know of anyone with an out of tree dhcp provider? I'd be curious what it'd be plugging into. | 17:19 |
| jroll | iirc | 17:19 |
| jroll | JayF: someone was working on an isc one | 17:19 |
| rloo | jroll, devananda, lucasagomes: ok, that's fine with me. The reno can be added in a subsequent patch. | 17:19 |
| rloo | any volunteer to email? | 17:20 |
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| jroll | I can email | 17:20 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, hmm I mean, if you have 1 method for ports and another for portgroups | 17:20 |
| rloo | thx jroll | 17:20 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: I didn't see any reasonable way to not make this change, fwiw | 17:20 |
| dtantsur | JayF, I suspect ionutbalutoiu might | 17:20 |
| lucasagomes | that would be avoided, casue the base class would be noop for portgroup | 17:20 |
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| lucasagomes | and plugins can implement that portgroup dhcp update method within them | 17:20 |
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| lucasagomes | devananda, yeah fair enough, plus we don't guarantee the backward compat as you mentioned | 17:21 |
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| rloo | ok, my item has been addressed. that was fast! (thx.) | 17:22 |
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| dtantsur | example: https://github.com/ionutbalutoiu/ironic/commit/30e68fb5cb40d7ca45f33c0dca10d97ef674653b | 17:22 |
| dtantsur | can't quickly figure out if it was affected | 17:22 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, apparently not because he's not using the "vifs" option from update_dhcp_opts | 17:23 |
| lucasagomes | which is the dict that has changed | 17:23 |
| lucasagomes | s/option/param | 17:23 |
| dtantsur | right, good | 17:24 |
| jroll | I'll email regardless | 17:24 |
| dtantsur | ++ | 17:24 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, +1 | 17:24 |
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| jroll | anything else on this topic? | 17:25 |
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| jroll | #agreed jroll to email about the breakage | 17:26 |
| jroll | #topic open discussion | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:26 | |
| jroll | so, one thing I want to bring up here | 17:26 |
| jroll | infra folks have very heavily recommended that we use their asterisk VOIP system, rather than a proprietary system | 17:26 |
| jroll | with two concerns about proprietary video systems: | 17:26 |
| jroll | 1) it will exclude folks that will not use non-free software | 17:27 |
| jroll | 2) it will exclude folks with low internet bandwidth | 17:27 |
| dtantsur | iirc bluejeans allows to call-in via a phone | 17:27 |
| jroll | right, so does vidyo, but that may incur phone charges for international folks no? | 17:27 |
| sambetts | jroll: did you see my link to this the other day? https://free.gotomeeting.com/ | 17:28 |
| jroll | they suggested using etherpad along with it | 17:28 |
| mgould | jroll: how much bandwidth does the Asterisk system require? | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | what if we need to share a screen? | 17:28 |
| jroll | sambetts: no, but that has the same issues and also "up to three people" | 17:28 |
| jroll | mgould: it's a SIP system; whatever that takes | 17:28 |
| devananda | jroll: have you decided whether we will use video or screen sharing at all? | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | jroll, dunno, depending on whether they have free local numbers | 17:28 |
| sambetts | jroll: its not limited if someone signs up for a 30 day free trail | 17:28 |
| jroll | devananda: this is what we're talking about right now | 17:28 |
| sambetts | no billing info required | 17:28 |
| jroll | sambetts: meh, we have two video systems that will work already | 17:29 |
| sambetts | ok :) | 17:29 |
| jroll | so my larger question is | 17:29 |
| * lucasagomes likes the concerns raised and agrees with them | 17:29 | |
| jroll | do we absolutely require video and/or screen sharing, at the risk of excluding some folks? or will voice + etherpad + irc suffice? | 17:29 |
| jlvillal | I would think VOIP using Asterisk should use in the kilobits per second. Maybe less than 256 kilobits per second. Audio is fairly low bandwidth. From what I recall. | 17:29 |
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| devananda | sambetts: free trial doesn't solve either of those concerns, fwiw | 17:30 |
| jroll | jlvillal: yep, 64k voice is considered somewhat high quality | 17:30 |
| rloo | is 'everyone' at the midcycle going to want to do something all together? if folks break up into groups to do their own thing, then they can do video/share screens then? | 17:30 |
| devananda | I feel pretty strongly that we should not use a system which is limited in # of people, or requires such high bandwidth / low latency that it excludes any geographic regions | 17:30 |
| devananda | for the primary channel, at least | 17:31 |
| dtantsur | bluejeans seems to have a lot of local numbers https://www.intercallonline.com/listNumbersByCode.action?confCode=7220882266 | 17:31 |
| * jlvillal adds clean home-office to TODO list :) | 17:31 | |
| jroll | devananda: ++ | 17:31 |
| devananda | rloo: the problem even with breaking off into groups that do video is that will, potentially, exclude certain folks | 17:31 |
| rloo | devananda: true, maybe up to the group to decide? | 17:31 |
| rloo | how much screen sharing might be needed? | 17:32 |
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| lucasagomes | rloo, yeah that sounds fair, assuming we will break into groups | 17:32 |
| devananda | rloo: afaik, all of the video conference things are size limited. what happens when someone wants to join the group, but can't becaues of that? | 17:32 |
| jroll | I've also noticed during our midcycles that breaking into groups to do a thing usually results in 90% of attendees listening anyway | 17:32 |
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| rloo | in past mid-cycles, did people need to look at screens? more like whiteboards? | 17:32 |
| jroll | devananda: vidyo and blue jeans are not size limited to the best of my knowledge | 17:32 |
| rloo | well, let's try with voice only for this midcycle and see how it goes. | 17:32 |
| dtantsur | hundred(s) of participants | 17:32 |
| jroll | devananda: I've personally seen >100 people on vidyo, fwiw | 17:33 |
| devananda | neat | 17:33 |
| devananda | I thought # of presenters was limited on those | 17:33 |
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| dtantsur | at least 9 seems possible with bluejeans | 17:33 |
| jroll | # of videos may be limited, but it chooses which to display based on who is making noise | 17:33 |
| jroll | anyway, I feel like we should at least try voice + etherpad | 17:33 |
| devananda | IMO, white board + voice + etherpad for notes would be fine. as much as I like to see everyone | 17:34 |
| rloo | i counted 24 folks max, that have signed up on the etherpad for the midcycle. | 17:34 |
| devananda | jroll: do we have a decent option for shared whiteboard (besides etherpad) ? | 17:34 |
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| jroll | if we feel that it's terrible we can move to vidyo for the next day | 17:34 |
| jroll | devananda: unsure, there are certainly web things out there | 17:34 |
| * dtantsur is the only non-native here right now, so he's in minority apparently | 17:34 | |
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| mgould | jroll, devananda: for drawing diagrams and the like? | 17:34 |
| rloo | dtantsur: what is a non-native? | 17:34 |
| devananda | mgould: yes | 17:34 |
| dtantsur | rloo, ... english speaker | 17:34 |
| mgould | cool | 17:34 |
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| * mgould likes diagrams | 17:35 | |
| jlvillal | dtantsur: lucasagomes is here too :) | 17:35 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, jroll ++ we can try, if there's a topic that we really need video we maybe can figure out a way too | 17:35 |
| dtantsur | he lives in ireland, so he does not count :D | 17:35 |
| lucasagomes | bluejeans or the other one mentioned | 17:35 |
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| jroll | dtantsur: yeah, I feel your concerns but I'm not sure it's worth potentially excluding people | 17:35 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, I'm non native | 17:35 |
| devananda | dtantsur: we have many contributors from east asia. timezones usually prevent them from joining this meeting regularly ... | 17:35 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: yeah, I need to test but I can spin up a room on my end in 60 seconds apparently | 17:35 |
| devananda | maybe I'm being idealistic, but I hope some of them will make the midcycle | 17:35 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, nice, me and dtantsur can do something for bluejeans if needed on our end as well | 17:36 |
| jroll | devananda: I see some people from asia in the etherpad already :) | 17:36 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, according to the etherpad they will | 17:36 |
| devananda | awesome | 17:36 |
| mgould | devananda: it’s unfortunate that they can’t join the regular meetings | 17:36 |
| devananda | mgould: I know :( | 17:36 |
| jroll | mgould: tis :/ | 17:36 |
| devananda | mgould: fwiw, we tried alternating meeting times last year, but found that it hurt the project velocity overall more to split | 17:37 |
| dtantsur | hmm, I can only hope they will find phone working for them.. | 17:37 |
| mgould | yeah, makes sense | 17:37 |
| rloo | devananda, mgould: besides the fact that it seemed like half the time or more, not many folks showed up and sometimes no core. | 17:37 |
| jroll | dtantsur: I hope so too :/ | 17:37 |
| devananda | rloo: right | 17:37 |
| * jlvillal is technically a non-native English speaker. At least he has been told that he only knew Spanish until age three | 17:37 | |
| dtantsur | jlvillal, I'm not sure it's a good comparison to be honest | 17:38 |
| lucasagomes | jlvillal, :-) are you still able to speak it? | 17:38 |
| jlvillal | true! and no :( | 17:38 |
| devananda | dtantsur: I think that's where asterisk will work better -- it's lower bandwidth, should work better than a video call for folks outside of major us/eu metropolitan areas | 17:38 |
| rloo | so did we decide? | 17:39 |
| lucasagomes | +1 for me, I think we should try | 17:39 |
| dtantsur | devananda, I'm not talking about bandwidth, I'm talking about people not understanding what is going on at all | 17:39 |
| devananda | dtantsur: ahh | 17:39 |
| jroll | devananda: fwiw, I've heard it's easier for non-native speakers to communicate when facial expressions, body language, etc can be conveyed | 17:39 |
| devananda | dtantsur: well - not like video is going to help in that case either | 17:39 |
| lucasagomes | if not we already have a plan B | 17:39 |
| dtantsur | just FYI: for a non-native speaker lips movements and face expressions give a lot of hints. and understanding who is speaking helps adjust to an accent faster. | 17:40 |
| devananda | jroll: one on one, definitely ... but I can't imagine trying to do that with 20 people | 17:40 |
| mgould | dtantsur, TIL | 17:40 |
| dtantsur | but maybe it's only me, I've also been very bad at listening :D | 17:40 |
| devananda | dtantsur: fair | 17:40 |
| jlvillal | It can be difficult for speakers of other languages to understand native English speakers if they are speaking fast. | 17:40 |
| jroll | devananda: I'm hoping we don't have 20 people talking at once :D | 17:40 |
| lucasagomes | yeah, but we can also fallback to IRC if someone do not understand something | 17:40 |
| devananda | jroll: heh | 17:41 |
| jroll | yeah, so let's try VOIP+etherpad+irc to start. I'll verify that I can use external participants easily if needed. and I'll include both in my email about these details :) | 17:41 |
| mgould | in that case we should make clear at the start of the meetings that “I can’t hear you, can we fall back to IRC” is an option | 17:41 |
| mgould | or people will be too embarrassed to ask | 17:41 |
| jlvillal | jroll: Please provide info for how to connect to the VOIP, if you haven't already :) | 17:41 |
| jroll | jlvillal: yeah, I will be | 17:41 |
| dtantsur | mgould, people will be to embarrassed anyway | 17:41 |
| mgould | dtantsur: true | 17:41 |
| mgould | accessibility is hard :-( | 17:42 |
| lucasagomes | dtantsur, heh ++ | 17:42 |
| devananda | dtantsur: point made. reflecting on my time studying other languages and you're correct -- it hasn't worked for me virtually in the past, but f2f, absolutely true | 17:42 |
| rloo | too embarassed to say they can't hear? or to say they can hear but don't understand? | 17:42 |
| dtantsur | rloo, the latter | 17:42 |
| rloo | dtantsur: got it. we don't have any deaf folks I hope. | 17:42 |
| dtantsur | I can't guarantee it, but hopefully not | 17:43 |
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| JayF | As someone with hearing problems, I kinda hate non-video get-togethers too (difficult to understand what's being said), but I likely won't participate in the mid-cycle so I shouldn't get a vote :) | 17:43 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, right, but would having a video chat help you with that? | 17:44 |
| lucasagomes | or it would be the same? | 17:44 |
| JayF | Yes, it helps significantly | 17:44 |
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| JayF | to the level where I almost always try to avoid audio-only meetings | 17:44 |
| devananda | best quality online voice "meetings" I've ever had with folks was years ago, using teamspeak, where everyone wore head sets | 17:44 |
| jroll | so the crazy computer nerd in me wants to actually run both and have my system pipe audio between the two. would take some work but is doable | 17:44 |
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| lucasagomes | I see | 17:45 |
| jroll | I may test that out actually | 17:45 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, ++ I used it to play counter strike in the past | 17:45 |
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| mgould | jroll: so folks with good connections can use video, and folks without can use audio? | 17:45 |
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| jroll | so let's say: we'll definitely have VOIP, we may have video at the same time, we may have video on standby | 17:45 |
| jroll | mgould: yeah | 17:45 |
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| jroll | shouldn't be too hard to set up using jack, I'm just scared I'll break my audio altogether :D | 17:46 |
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| devananda | jroll: that would be awesome | 17:47 |
| devananda | if it works, I mean :) | 17:47 |
| jroll | heh | 17:47 |
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| jroll | breaking audio altogether is not abnormal on my linux system anyway, so I'll give it a shot :) | 17:47 |
| devananda | if video for speakers helps non-native english speakers // folks with hearing difficulties, then yea, i'm all for us having that _in addition_ to the open source audio only channel | 17:47 |
| jroll | so yeah, I'll send an email with details by wednesday at the latest | 17:47 |
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| jroll | nod, agree | 17:48 |
| jroll | devananda: by saying as much, you agree to help me test this out :D | 17:48 |
| devananda | jroll: sure thing | 17:48 |
| mgould | jroll: good luck! | 17:48 |
| jroll | alright, I think we're in agreement here | 17:48 |
| jroll | anything else folks want to chat about? | 17:49 |
| mkovacik | guys, I'd like your +/-1 on HA for Inspector spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/253675/ warning: it's a bit longer reading ;) | 17:49 |
| mgould | mkovacik: how much has it changed in the last couple of weeks? | 17:49 |
| dtantsur | oh, yeah, anyone knowing about HA could help us a lot by looking at it | 17:49 |
| mkovacik | mgould, almost no change | 17:49 |
| mkovacik | dtantsur, ++ | 17:50 |
| devananda | mkovacik: you're not kidding about it being long :) | 17:50 |
| mkovacik | mgould, that's no change I remember making ;) | 17:50 |
| dtantsur | devananda, you didn't see how impressive the paper version of this spec looks :D | 17:50 |
| mkovacik | devananda, yeah | 17:50 |
| devananda | dtantsur: paper?! | 17:50 |
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| devananda | how quaint :) | 17:50 |
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| devananda | mkovacik: I'll try to give it a quick read today | 17:51 |
| mkovacik | devananda, we used to have some f2f reviews with dtantsur in the office over a cup of tea over the spec | 17:51 |
| dtantsur | devananda, yeah, we had an old-school spec review some time ago with a printed spec :) | 17:51 |
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| devananda | could you tldr; one thing, though, before I start | 17:51 |
| mkovacik | devananda, sure | 17:51 |
| lucasagomes | mkovacik, dtantsur hah that's awesome! | 17:51 |
| lucasagomes | you guys should try s/tea/beer too :-) | 17:51 |
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| mkovacik | lucasagomes, we can involve you and your (home) office, too :D beers on me ;) | 17:52 |
| devananda | is this proposing active/passive or active/active availability -- and in either case, why is inspection a critical enough service in the data center to require HA? | 17:52 |
| devananda | (not that I think it's not -- but I'd like to understand your reasoning) | 17:52 |
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| lucasagomes | mkovacik, wfm | 17:52 |
| devananda | I didn't see an answer to either of those in a skim of the problem description | 17:53 |
| mkovacik | devananda, it's active--active spec, the reasoning behind is we're a single point of failure atm | 17:53 |
| devananda | (ok, two questions) | 17:53 |
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| devananda | mkovacik: yes, inspector has SPoF, but what other systems depend on it? | 17:53 |
| dtantsur | I think this discussion can be easily moved to the channel, as we have only 7 minutes left here | 17:54 |
| devananda | dtantsur: sure thing | 17:54 |
| mkovacik | dtantsur, devananda right | 17:54 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, within Tripleo, there are use cases where we want to have inspector on the overcloud too (baremetal to tenant case) | 17:54 |
| lucasagomes | so inspector needs to scale up | 17:54 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: ahh, gotcha | 17:55 |
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| devananda | happy to discuss more in channel :) | 17:55 |
| mkovacik | devananda, dtantsur, lucasagomes I'll be relocating home, please bare with me, back in ~2hours | 17:56 |
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| jroll | anything else or can I close this one out? :) | 17:56 |
| jroll | alright, thanks for a great meeting everyone :D | 17:57 |
| NobodyCam | nothing here | 17:57 |
| jroll | #endmeeting | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:57 | |
| NobodyCam | :) | 17:57 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 8 17:57:55 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-02-08-17.00.html | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-02-08-17.00.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-02-08-17.00.log.html | 17:58 |
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