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| tidwellr | hi | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| haleyb | hi | 14:59 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:59 |
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| pavel_bondar | hi | 15:00 |
| tidwellr | #startmeeting neutron_l3 | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 14 15:00:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tidwellr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_l3' | 15:00 |
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| tidwellr | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-L3-Subteam#April_14th.2C_2016 | 15:01 |
| tidwellr | agenda ^^^ | 15:01 |
| johnbelamaric | hell | 15:01 |
| johnbelamaric | o | 15:01 |
| tidwellr | #topic Announcements | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:01 | |
| tidwellr | Summit is coming! | 15:01 |
| mlavalle | yeah, 2 weeks! | 15:02 |
| mlavalle | less actually | 15:02 |
| vikram_ | hi | 15:02 |
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| tidwellr | looking forward to hanging out in mlavalle's backyard (semi-sort-of) :) | 15:02 |
| vikram_ | My best wishes to all the presenters | 15:03 |
| mlavalle | looking forward to it! | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | ++ | 15:03 |
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| tidwellr | any other announcements? | 15:04 |
| tidwellr | alright, let's dive in | 15:05 |
| tidwellr | #topic Bugs | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:05 | |
| tidwellr | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1566383 | 15:05 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1566383 in neutron "The creation fip does not endure restarting of l3-agent" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Brian Haley (brian-haley) | 15:05 |
| tidwellr | bhaley: anything to share on this? | 15:06 |
| mlavalle | haleyb: ^^^^ | 15:06 |
| mlavalle | lol | 15:06 |
| haleyb | i must have udpated the review, let me look | 15:06 |
| carl_baldwin | I'll take another look at the review. | 15:07 |
| haleyb | tidwellr: review needs an update as it's throwing an exception | 15:07 |
| haleyb | i must have missed something | 15:07 |
| tidwellr | sounds like it's mostly under control then? | 15:08 |
| haleyb | yes, just looks like an EINVAL running /sbin/ip | 15:08 |
| tidwellr | cool | 15:09 |
| tidwellr | anything else we should know? | 15:09 |
| haleyb | not about that one, i'm looking at it now | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | I think we can just take it to the review and move on. | 15:10 |
| tidwellr | sounds good | 15:10 |
| tidwellr | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1564335 | 15:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1564335 in neutron " [Pluggable IPAM] delete subnet in ml2 plugin does not comply with pluggable ipam (deletes ip allocations directly from db)" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Pavel Bondar (pasha117) | 15:10 |
| tidwellr | pavel_bondar ^^^ | 15:11 |
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| pavel_bondar | fix is out for review and has one +2 | 15:11 |
| pavel_bondar | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/300984/ | 15:11 |
| tidwellr | great! | 15:11 |
| carl_baldwin | Good job pavel_bondar | 15:11 |
| pavel_bondar | carl_baldwin: Thanks! | 15:12 |
| tidwellr | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1543094 | 15:12 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1543094 in neutron "[Pluggable IPAM] DB exceeded retry limit (RetryRequest) on create_router call" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Ryan Tidwell (ryan-tidwell) | 15:12 |
| * tidwellr runs for cover | 15:12 | |
| carl_baldwin | We'll get this. I think we're on the right track. | 15:13 |
| tidwellr | I think so too, the end is in sight | 15:13 |
| tidwellr | I pushed a couple more patch sets last night | 15:13 |
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| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: I'll have a look. | 15:14 |
| tidwellr | what I have up for review will remove all the availability range logic from the code, we'll need a follow-on patch for a migration that removes the schema | 15:14 |
| carl_baldwin | tidwellr: cool | 15:15 |
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| pavel_bondar | tidwellr: sounds good | 15:15 |
| tidwellr | alright, on the RFE front | 15:16 |
| tidwellr | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1566191 | 15:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1566191 in neutron "Allow multiple networks with FIP range to be associated with Tenant router" [Medium,Confirmed] | 15:16 |
| tidwellr | not sure if anyone has taken a look at this | 15:16 |
| carl_baldwin | I need to catch up on this. | 15:16 |
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| tidwellr | carl_baldwin: sounds good | 15:18 |
| tidwellr | #topic Routed Networks | 15:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Routed Networks (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:18 | |
| carl_baldwin | My progress has slowed a little bit while I prepare for summit. But, it is still moving forward. | 15:19 |
| *** ddieterly[away] is now known as ddieterly | 15:19 | |
| carl_baldwin | I'm going to try to get the CRUD patch in shape before summit and then work a little more on segment / subnet association. | 15:19 |
| carl_baldwin | That's really all I have for today. | 15:20 |
| tidwellr | sounds good | 15:20 |
| tidwellr | moving on | 15:20 |
| tidwellr | #topic BGP | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BGP (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:20 | |
| vikram_ | hi | 15:21 |
| tidwellr | I have nothing to report other than my efforts to catch up with all the work others are doing :) | 15:21 |
| vikram_ | Need approval for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268726/ | 15:21 |
| vikram_ | :-) | 15:21 |
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| tidwellr | In Austin I'd like to catch up with folks about how the split and some of these RFE's can be done during this cycle | 15:23 |
| tidwellr | that will be an interesting dance :) | 15:23 |
| tidwellr | I'll reach out to people offline | 15:24 |
| tidwellr | vikram_, thanks for the persistence with https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1566191 | 15:24 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1566191 in neutron "Allow multiple networks with FIP range to be associated with Tenant router" [Medium,Confirmed] | 15:24 |
| tidwellr | oops, wrong link | 15:24 |
| tidwellr | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268726/ | 15:25 |
| * tidwellr needs to clear his clipboard | 15:25 | |
| vikram_ | np | 15:25 |
| tidwellr | alright, moving quickly today | 15:26 |
| tidwellr | #topic Open Discussion | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:26 | |
| tidwellr | anything we didn't cover that needs some discussion? | 15:27 |
| pavel_bondar | One time switch to pluggable ipam via alembic migration is ready for review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181023/ | 15:27 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: Thanks. | 15:27 |
| pavel_bondar | it passes grenade tests, but still don't have clear jenkins pass | 15:27 |
| carl_baldwin | pavel_bondar: How are the test failures looking? Bad? | 15:27 |
| pavel_bondar | test failures are different each time, so might be some concurency issue | 15:28 |
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| pavel_bondar | I put this migration patch on top of the Kevin's review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/303085/2 that fixes restarting transaction on each concurent access | 15:29 |
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| carl_baldwin | Okay, I'll have a look at both. | 15:30 |
| tidwellr | pavel_bondar: In the commit message I see a comment about IPAvailabilityRange not getting updates, could you elaborate? | 15:30 |
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| pavel_bondar | tidwellr: ok | 15:31 |
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| pavel_bondar | this is done to handle cases where users are already using pluggable ipam | 15:31 |
| pavel_bondar | so IPAvailabilityRange stops to receive updates, since this tables used only by non-pluggable ipam implementation | 15:32 |
| tidwellr | ok, got it | 15:32 |
| pavel_bondar | and just doing av range recalc in migration | 15:32 |
| carl_baldwin | Makes sense. | 15:33 |
| tidwellr | cool, thanks for patiently answering my silly question :) | 15:33 |
| pavel_bondar | no prob, case is not trivial anyway) | 15:33 |
| * tidwellr wonders what would happen if someone was working on removing IP availability ranges... | 15:34 | |
| tidwellr | pavel_bondar: I don't think this complicates any of the work I'm doing, but I'll be sure to take a look today | 15:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | I don't think it should complicate it either. | 15:35 |
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| pavel_bondar | tidwellr: yeah, if remove av_ranges patch is merged before migration I just need to remove ~20 lines of code from migration, so I think we are ok there | 15:36 |
| tidwellr | pavel_bondar: let's both keep an eye on each other | 15:37 |
| pavel_bondar | sure, taking a look on your patches periodically | 15:37 |
| tidwellr | pavel_bondar: timing of which merges first will impact you | 15:38 |
| pavel_bondar | tidwellr: right, but it will be easy to fix (as I see) | 15:39 |
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| tidwellr | pavel_bondar: good to know | 15:39 |
| tidwellr | pavel_bondar: anything else on this? | 15:39 |
| pavel_bondar | no, that is it | 15:40 |
| tidwellr | alright, any other topics for discussion? | 15:40 |
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| tidwellr | going once | 15:41 |
| tidwellr | going twice | 15:41 |
| tidwellr | if there's nothing else, we'll give everyone back 15 minutes | 15:42 |
| tidwellr | thanks everyone | 15:42 |
| tidwellr | #endmeeting | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 14 15:42:33 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2016/neutron_l3.2016-04-14-15.00.html | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2016/neutron_l3.2016-04-14-15.00.txt | 15:42 |
| mlavalle | bye | 15:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2016/neutron_l3.2016-04-14-15.00.log.html | 15:42 |
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| pavel_bondar | thanks | 15:42 |
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| docaedo | Courtesy ping: kfox1111 kzaitsev_mb markvan spzala | 17:00 |
| docaedo | Anyone around today for the app catalog meeting? (suspect a lot of people busy as the summit approaches...) | 17:01 |
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| kzaitsev_mb | docaedo: I'm here, but I think I hadn't written a single line of code this week, so my updates are quite few | 17:02 |
| kzaitsev_mb | although I can give updates on my schedule probably, just not sure if that's relevant for app-cat meeting ) | 17:03 |
| docaedo | :) Not sure either, Might as well start and we can have a two minute meeting | 17:03 |
| docaedo | #startmeeting app-catalog | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 14 17:03:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is docaedo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'app_catalog' | 17:03 |
| docaedo | #topic Status updates | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates (Meeting topic: app-catalog)" | 17:03 | |
| kzaitsev_mb | ok, so my updates are quite few. Have been busy with pre-summit preparation and newton scoping for murano. | 17:04 |
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| kzaitsev_mb | I'll be able to attend app-catalogs fishbowl (the 2d part of it) | 17:04 |
| docaedo | The status update I have mostly hast to do with a higher-level thing, which is trying to unify openstack app development efforts, and some pre-summit prep | 17:04 |
| markvan | hi, not much update news to share, waiting for summit to see how horizon will go forward with int testing | 17:04 |
| docaedo | kzaitsev_mb: glad to hear you'll be able to make it! | 17:05 |
| docaedo | kzaitsev_mb: are there any specific murano sessions you want us to attend? | 17:05 |
| kzaitsev_mb | haven't finished the UI part, But I definitelly intend to. Want to maybe demo it a bit, i.e. add an asset to glare and publish it | 17:05 |
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| docaedo | great! | 17:06 |
| kzaitsev_mb | we have 3, fishbowl would probably be status-updates and plans discussion, next session — I'd like to discuss murano-apps and generally the place where we should keep the source code for them (i.e. 3d party apps, not developed/controlled by murano-team) | 17:07 |
| docaedo | OK if there's a specific work session you want to make sure we get to let us know | 17:08 |
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| docaedo | can probably just share the session on #openstack-app-catalog when you want | 17:08 |
| docaedo | (session link I mean) | 17:08 |
| kzaitsev_mb | yep, I'll do. | 17:09 |
| docaedo | excellent, thank you | 17:09 |
| kzaitsev_mb | going to edit the names/e-pads/write a letter to ttx later today ) | 17:09 |
| docaedo | OK I think we can call the meeting then, let everyone get back to work (or get to their own end of day as the case may be!) | 17:10 |
| docaedo | unless there's anything else? | 17:10 |
| * docaedo waits at least a full minute | 17:10 | |
| docaedo | thanks for the quick meeting today gents, I am not planning on having one next week but will discuss in the channel in case there's demand/reason | 17:12 |
| docaedo | #endmeeting | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:12 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 14 17:12:43 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:12 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2016/app_catalog.2016-04-14-17.03.html | 17:12 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2016/app_catalog.2016-04-14-17.03.txt | 17:12 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2016/app_catalog.2016-04-14-17.03.log.html | 17:12 |
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| spzala | docaedo: thanks!! Sorry missed you ping earlier, just getting back from lunch. | 17:20 |
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| shamail | ping jproulx, maishk | 18:59 |
| shamail | #startmeeting nonatc | 18:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 14 18:59:59 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is shamail. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nonatc)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nonatc' | 19:00 |
| shamail | #topic roll call | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: nonatc)" | 19:00 | |
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| shamail | Welcome everyone. Can you please let us know if you're here to participate in this meeting? | 19:00 |
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| dc_mattj | I am | 19:01 |
| shamail | hi dc_mattj | 19:01 |
| dc_mattj | hey shamail | 19:01 |
| shamail | emagana: are you here as well? | 19:01 |
| shamail | Anyone else? | 19:01 |
| pholland | pholland is here | 19:01 |
| shamail | Hi pholland | 19:01 |
| pholland | happy thursday | 19:01 |
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| shamail | seems like a light turnout today | 19:02 |
| shamail | same to you! | 19:02 |
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| shamail | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NonATCRecognition#Meeting_Information is the agenda for today. | 19:02 |
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| shamail | Do we have enough to push forward or do we need more participation to achieve the items? | 19:02 |
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| shamail | What are your thoughts dc_mattj and pholland? | 19:03 |
| shamail | Hi MeganR | 19:03 |
| MeganR | Hi, sorry I am late | 19:03 |
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| shamail | np | 19:03 |
| pholland | more participation would be useful; is there anything we can do with limited quorum? | 19:04 |
| shamail | I was just asking whether we have enough people on to make progress on our agenda (4 of us are on) | 19:04 |
| shamail | pholland: We could review the etherpad and maybe see if we can suggest initial groupings (and review with broader team over email or next meeting) | 19:05 |
| dc_mattj | I think we can at least discuss ? | 19:05 |
| shamail | yeah | 19:05 |
| pholland | not having been at the first meeting, I'll defer to you, but I like your suggestion that we can start to group | 19:05 |
| shamail | Alright! onwards to progress! | 19:05 |
| shamail | #topic Review action items from last meeting | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: nonatc)" | 19:05 | |
| shamail | 1) Modify milestone 2 to also including grouping identified members (shamail) | 19:05 |
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| shamail | I have modified the wiki to include gruping as an activity in phase 2 | 19:06 |
| shamail | I also modified the structure slightly so that the milestones are now a table. This will help us also post relevant links associated with the milestone. | 19:06 |
| shamail | 2) Share criteria used for ops recognition for the Austin summit (jproulx) | 19:06 |
| shamail | Jon isn’t on today.. so we will defer reviewing this item. I did see a link he shared that shows at least one of the criteria used (https://github.com/fifieldt/uc-recognition) | 19:07 |
| shamail | I think this will be handy to review again once we start working on the next milestone (how to measure/automate) | 19:07 |
| shamail | #topic Review roles/activities that should be eligible | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review roles/activities that should be eligible (Meeting topic: nonatc)" | 19:08 | |
| shamail | The etherpad is full of activity! Let's take a moment to review the contents and then discuss whether we can spot any gaps. | 19:08 |
| shamail | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/uc-recognition-roles | 19:08 |
| shamail | It is not important (yet) to determine how the activity can be quantified, that will come in milestone 3, so for now let's focus on being broad and we can eliminate (or park) activities that can be measured in the next phase. Sound good? | 19:09 |
| pholland | I'm ok with it | 19:09 |
| dc_mattj | so I think there's some stuff in there that is clearly a strong candidate, which we could filter to the top straight away | 19:09 |
| pholland | for operators, I think we should ensure focus is on contributions back to the community, not just use | 19:09 |
| pholland | the existing bullets I think are ok given they are contribution-focused | 19:10 |
| shamail | agreed with both of you dc_mattj and pholland | 19:10 |
| shamail | I like your approach dc_mattj | 19:10 |
| pholland | I like the bullet about being a track chair | 19:10 |
| dc_mattj | official user group organisers, working group members, hosting meetups, moderating | 19:10 |
| shamail | could everyone add a +1 in the etherpad next to items they think are strong candidates? | 19:10 |
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| dc_mattj | track chairs already get free summit tickets, although not with any specific badge | 19:11 |
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| shamail | #chair maishsk | 19:11 |
| openstack | Current chairs: maishsk shamail | 19:11 |
| dc_mattj | shamail, there were already a bunch of +1's that weren't necessarily involved in that last discussion point | 19:12 |
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| shamail | agreed dc_mattj but we should still identify it since summit pass is not the only potential benefit/right associated with UC consitituency | 19:12 |
| maishsk | Sorry I am late | 19:12 |
| dc_mattj | kk | 19:12 |
| shamail | np maishsk | 19:12 |
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| shamail | so dc_mattj, I like your initial list. | 19:13 |
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| shamail | we could add summit track chairs fairly easily too | 19:14 |
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| shamail | I have a feeling that they will probably already qualify through another activity | 19:14 |
| maishsk | shamail: I tend to agree | 19:14 |
| dc_mattj | this is kind of the approach we used for the summit presentations, get the big ticket ones out of the way first, then you can concentrate the discussion on the edge cases and possibles | 19:15 |
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| shamail | I added a list of activities with consensus at the bottom of the etherpad (line 61) | 19:16 |
| shamail | sorry, line 63 | 19:16 |
| shamail | What do we think about content contributions to superuser? | 19:16 |
| shamail | There was a bullet point about planet openstack but someone mentioned that the best planet openstack articles end up on superuser anyway | 19:17 |
| maishsk | So I voiced my concerns there about who gets on superuser | 19:17 |
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| maishsk | and the criteria | 19:17 |
| clarkb | (as an aside planet isn't moderated iirc and has had cooking blogs on it before) | 19:17 |
| shamail | clarkb: didn’t know that :) | 19:18 |
| maishsk | clarkb: that is true - but we try to clean it up when garbage starts coming through | 19:18 |
| shamail | maishsk: I agree with the point, we could include other sources (and revisit how that would be measured in milestone 3) | 19:18 |
| maishsk | but that usually happens because someone had their wordpress blog hacked | 19:18 |
| shamail | The question for now is whether it is a topic that needs discussion before we can say it has consensus | 19:19 |
| maishsk | before a blog is added to the planet - the url submitted - is checked for OpenSTack relevance | 19:19 |
| dc_mattj | content contributions to superuser I think are valid | 19:19 |
| shamail | I think based on the etherpad it wouldnt qualify as defacto for now | 19:19 |
| pholland | who selects the content for superuser? | 19:19 |
| dc_mattj | it's edited, and high quality content | 19:19 |
| dc_mattj | nicole ? | 19:19 |
| shamail | I tend to agree dc_mattj | 19:19 |
| shamail | Yes, Nicole and Allison | 19:19 |
| clarkb | maishsk: gotcha | 19:20 |
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| maishsk | but then again - it could be reposts of content from elsewhere | 19:20 |
| dc_mattj | it would only be reposted if it was high quality content to start with | 19:20 |
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| maishsk | correct | 19:20 |
| maishsk | for example | 19:20 |
| maishsk | #link http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/how-to-use-terraform-to-deploy-openstack-workloads | 19:20 |
| maishsk | and | 19:21 |
| maishsk | #link http://www.stratoscale.com/blog/openstack/tutorial-how-to-use-terraform-to-deploy-openstack-workloads/ | 19:21 |
| shamail | It could be… recognizing superuser articles though is a centralize community publication. | 19:21 |
| shamail | in this case, we could recognize the contribution because it is on superuser and if there was content that was not accepted for superuser than we could still evaluate it through the review board process. | 19:22 |
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| dc_mattj | shamail: agreed, superuser is a curated edited site, not a blog | 19:22 |
| dc_mattj | I don't think it matters if its been posted somewhere else first | 19:22 |
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| shamail | The challenge with other sources though is that they may not be entirely openstack focused…. only an article (or subset) could be openstack | 19:22 |
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| pholland | I think if the article is posted/included in a cross-community publication, I support it... a simple post or a local publication seems a little below the bar from my point of view | 19:23 |
| shamail | Getting the article on superuser would indicate that the curators saw value in the information for the entire community | 19:23 |
| dc_mattj | I think there's a fairly clear initial consensus emerging on the etherpad | 19:23 |
| pholland | shamail: I agree with that statement | 19:23 |
| dc_mattj | shamail: v.true | 19:23 |
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| dc_mattj | and ultimately anyone who's written something good, and is participating in the community, could potentially submit that to superuser right ? | 19:24 |
| shamail | pholland: I agree, I was thinking adding “superuser articles” is something we can agree on and then we can revisit other publications in a group discussion. Thoughts? | 19:24 |
| dc_mattj | if there's not an official mechanism to do that, then there could be | 19:24 |
| dc_mattj | +1 | 19:24 |
| shamail | dc_mattj: correct, and sometimes, the superuser team will even reach out to them | 19:24 |
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| shamail | pholland, maishsk, MeganR… do you agree with adding superuser articles for now and discussing other publications in a bigger group later? | 19:25 |
| dc_mattj | other publications is too vague, and there's no mechanism for assessing quality of that without disappearing down multiple rabbit holes - how many hits, how many links etc. etc | 19:25 |
| maishsk | shamail: #agree | 19:25 |
| pholland | dc_mattj: +1 | 19:25 |
| shamail | dc_mattj: +1 | 19:25 |
| MeganR | agree | 19:25 |
| pholland | shamail: assuming superuser is moderated and we agree there is a level of quality of post, I support that; the other publications are still a question in my mind | 19:26 |
| dc_mattj | shamail: can I suggest we separate out the clear favourites in the etherpad from the remainder, will make it easier to read | 19:26 |
| shamail | pholland: agreed, and we will def. revisit | 19:26 |
| shamail | dc_mattj: Doing that at line 48 in the etherpad | 19:26 |
| dc_mattj | sorry :) | 19:27 |
| shamail | left the discussion on top for context | 19:27 |
| dc_mattj | missed the scroll down ;) | 19:27 |
| shamail | eventually, we’ll split it out into a separate etherpad :) | 19:27 |
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| shamail | So does the list at line 48 look like a good starting point or any obvious gaps? | 19:27 |
| shamail | I added “official” to both user groups and WGs | 19:28 |
| dc_mattj | so last time we spoke, it was looking like ops contribution was going to be a separate thing ? are we now talking about both these things together ? | 19:28 |
| shamail | That’s the next topic! | 19:28 |
| shamail | #topic Review grouping (if any) based on roles/activities list | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review grouping (if any) based on roles/activities list (Meeting topic: nonatc)" | 19:28 | |
| MeganR | and I like that you add "active" to the WG one | 19:28 |
| dc_mattj | given the list that's emerging, I'm not sure they should be a separate thing, but others may disagree | 19:28 |
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| shamail | MeganR: yes that was a good addition by someone | 19:29 |
| pholland | I added the "active" | 19:29 |
| shamail | There is one (or two) open items actually on user group organizers and meetups | 19:29 |
| shamail | Thanks pholland | 19:29 |
| MeganR | pholland: thank you! | 19:29 |
| pholland | I don't think we should separate ops contributions to other contributions | 19:29 |
| maishsk | I also added - for the list of meetups - listed on the official OpenStack meetup list | 19:30 |
| dc_mattj | maishsk: +1 | 19:30 |
| maishsk | pholland: +1 - At the moment Ops contributions are not recognized by the TC - so we should give recognition here | 19:30 |
| dc_mattj | that ensures things like meetups organised by a single company as a marketing ploy don't dominate | 19:31 |
| shamail | definitely | 19:31 |
| shamail | the question is whether we should recognize all of these are contributors or do we need to identify ops as ops, WG as WG, etc | 19:31 |
| pholland | maishsk: I agree | 19:31 |
| pholland | I think we are trying to give recognition to all community contributors, not just technical ones | 19:31 |
| shamail | the reasoning for this is that some people stated that when it comes time to determining voting eligibility | 19:31 |
| dc_mattj | there's definitely some things in that list that I'd say are more important than others | 19:32 |
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| shamail | they would want ops to have votes (since they are technical and use the platform) but wouldn’t want voting rights for user group organizers | 19:32 |
| pholland | recognizing active ops and WG members are pieces to the overall recognitions beyond ATC | 19:32 |
| shamail | not my opinion, just sharing context | 19:32 |
| shamail | for the grouping discussion | 19:32 |
| shamail | It basically comes down to do we recognize one group (ops, wg, user groups, all in) or do we recognize separate groups so they can have different rights/benefits | 19:33 |
| pholland | I would suggest that if we do a good job with the criteria, it would be straightforward to apply the criteria to multiple needs | 19:33 |
| shamail | I wish someone from UC was here today :D | 19:33 |
| maishsk | shamail: I do not agree - they are contributing to OpenStack - so they should have a say | 19:33 |
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| maishsk | regardless if they are writing blog posts - or writing ops tools | 19:34 |
| shamail | maishsk: now I will state my opinion and it is the same as yours. Voting doesn’t require one to be technical, but rather aware and a stakeholder in the direction of the community | 19:34 |
| dc_mattj | maishsk: I'm not sure most user group organisers would necessarily be as influential as some in the ops community in the overall direction of the project | 19:34 |
| shamail | a marketing person could be just as involved as an operator or WG member | 19:34 |
| maishsk | shamail: +1 fully agree | 19:34 |
| shamail | but dc_mattj project level voting is only for contributors to the project | 19:34 |
| dc_mattj | shamail: that is potentially true, as a product owner within an organisation | 19:34 |
| shamail | none of us qould qualify for project level votes anyway | 19:35 |
| dc_mattj | k | 19:35 |
| shamail | would* | 19:35 |
| dc_mattj | lol | 19:35 |
| shamail | dc_mattj: I am in the same boat as you | 19:35 |
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| dc_mattj | user groups are about spreading the word, ops and wg contributions are about actually getting involved in the internal workings of the project | 19:35 |
| shamail | I think the majority here is advocating for a single recognition (encompassing all) and equal rights/benefits | 19:36 |
| maishsk | especially since this is the OpenStack charter - I do not see why a member of the community will not be able to vote | 19:36 |
| shamail | Is that right? | 19:36 |
| dc_mattj | not saying that's should necessarily be treated differently, but there definitely is a difference in those two things | 19:36 |
| maishsk | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Open#Open_Community | 19:36 |
| shamail | Agreed with the roles dc_mattj | 19:36 |
| maishsk | “The technical governance of the project is a community meritocracy with contributors electing technical leads and members of the Technical Committee” | 19:36 |
| shamail | yep | 19:37 |
| shamail | maishsk: + | 19:37 |
| maishsk | Contributor - at the moment is a vary narrow term - which I think is totally wrong | 19:37 |
| shamail | maishsk: yeah, so if we say everyone has the same benefits in the charter then the definition of contributors evolves | 19:38 |
| shamail | So do we no longer need to group by role? | 19:38 |
| maishsk | I think not | 19:39 |
| pholland | I don't think we should group by role but by category of contribution | 19:39 |
| pholland | all the contribution categories are treated equally | 19:39 |
| pholland | and then we work to quantify how to measure it | 19:39 |
| shamail | pholland: you mean as in operator, user group, working group, content creator? | 19:39 |
| pholland | not really... | 19:40 |
| pholland | what contribution is an operator really making? | 19:40 |
| shamail | Can you give an example please? | 19:40 |
| pholland | is it the "use" of OpenStack? the "feedback" to the community to make it better? the "content" into some presentation or survey? etc | 19:40 |
| shamail | In my example it would be: Moderating at Ops Meetup, Contribution to Ops repositories | 19:41 |
| shamail | I get it now pholland | 19:41 |
| shamail | Thank you | 19:41 |
| pholland | I would think that user group and working group would be similar... maybe in a broad sense an active member of a "committe" or "working group" (assuming user group is one type of working group) | 19:41 |
| dc_mattj | I disagree | 19:42 |
| dc_mattj | these things are entirely different | 19:42 |
| shamail | Do you have an alternate proposal dc_mattj? | 19:42 |
| dc_mattj | I organise one of the user groups in the UK, and it's an entirely different activity from the other contributions I make to the upstream community | 19:42 |
| shamail | (just trying to brainstorm and get all options in the log) | 19:43 |
| pholland | dc_mattj: I must admit I know the least about the user group so it may make sense to treat UG and WG differently | 19:43 |
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| pholland | but I would propose we categorize by type of contribution, not the place where the contribution happens | 19:43 |
| dc_mattj | user groups don't involve thinking about the implications of your activities, they are just generally about promoting openstack | 19:43 |
| dc_mattj | which is valuable and worthwhile | 19:44 |
| dc_mattj | but contributing in the way we are doing right now is a totally different activity | 19:44 |
| shamail | UG and WG would indeed be different… UG is more about sharing the knowledge and building local networks | 19:44 |
| dc_mattj | as is being involved in the operators community | 19:44 |
| dc_mattj | shamail: exactly | 19:44 |
| dc_mattj | I think there's a clear separation between the user group, superuser stuff and the ops, wg stuff | 19:45 |
| shamail | WG is more about bringing actionable feedback into the community and working more inside the community to achieve desired objectives | 19:45 |
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| pholland | is there more similarity then between the user group and active meetups? | 19:45 |
| dc_mattj | exactly | 19:45 |
| shamail | pholland: yes | 19:45 |
| shamail | user groups are meetups | 19:45 |
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| maishsk | bikeshed ???? | 19:45 |
| shamail | but just official ones listed on groups.openstack.org | 19:45 |
| dc_mattj | +1 | 19:45 |
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| dc_mattj | and also some mechanism for making sure they are active, have members etc. | 19:46 |
| dc_mattj | although meetup is increasingly populated by strange bots who I haven't quite worked out what their purpose is | 19:46 |
| shamail | So do we want to identify a way to group contributions or let any activities from the various roles qualify as a single contributor type | 19:47 |
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| shamail | I think grouping will help people determine how to get involved as a contributor | 19:47 |
| maishsk | shamail: I think that at well | 19:47 |
| shamail | but, at the same time, it shouldn’t make a difference in terms of recognition | 19:47 |
| dc_mattj | given where we've simplified the list to, my view is there are clearly two different types of participants here - those promoting the community to the outside, and those actively participating in the community internally | 19:48 |
| dc_mattj | and agree it shouldn't be more or less | 19:48 |
| shamail | dc_mattj: ++ | 19:48 |
| dc_mattj | if we get the quantification process right | 19:48 |
| pholland | +1 | 19:48 |
| dc_mattj | which I think we're getting down to the brass tacks of in this discussion | 19:48 |
| shamail | We are not only defining the constituency to make sure those that are already active get recognized but also to help share what is needed in the community | 19:48 |
| dc_mattj | most other stuff on the etherpad is too hard to quantify or qualify | 19:49 |
| maishsk | And both groups are recognized equally - dc_mattj - that sounds good | 19:49 |
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| dc_mattj | maishsk: both groups are needed | 19:49 |
| shamail | #agree dc_mattj: given where we've simplified the list to, my view is there are clearly two different types of participants here - those promoting the community to the outside, and those actively participating in the community internally and agree it shouldn't be more or less | 19:49 |
| dc_mattj | although not everyone will agree that their contributions are equal ;) | 19:49 |
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| shamail | true dc_mattj but everyone will agree that its greater than not counting at all :D | 19:50 |
| pholland | it will be important to recognize key community contributions and help others understand what is valued as a contribution | 19:50 |
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| shamail | pholland: +1 | 19:50 |
| shamail | This was a great discussion | 19:50 |
| maishsk | :) | 19:51 |
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| shamail | changing topics in the last 10 minutes | 19:51 |
| shamail | #topic Discuss potential agenda topics for next meeting | 19:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss potential agenda topics for next meeting (Meeting topic: nonatc)" | 19:51 | |
| dc_mattj | shamail: indeed. Having been around open source for most of the last 20 years, the success of any project depends on all of those groups | 19:51 |
| shamail | Unfortunately, Edgar isn’t here… otherwise I was going to ask him about his session at the ops-meetup | 19:51 |
| shamail | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/AUS-ops-Ops-Recognition | 19:52 |
| dc_mattj | I was also hoping Edgar would be here as apparently we are moderating the Ceph session in Austin ;) | 19:52 |
| shamail | He currently is slated to moderate a session about “ops recognition: what is it” | 19:52 |
| dc_mattj | lol | 19:52 |
| dc_mattj | we need to work quickly then ! | 19:52 |
| shamail | and I wanted to ask him if we could turn it into a session for this WG | 19:52 |
| shamail | and make it broader | 19:52 |
| shamail | lol, indeed | 19:52 |
| shamail | Otherwise, this WG has no working session in Austin | 19:53 |
| dc_mattj | look, I reckon whichever way you slice this there is always going to be some outliers who will say there contribution is more valid | 19:53 |
| shamail | and I think the topic and WG compliment each other | 19:53 |
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| dc_mattj | agreed | 19:54 |
| shamail | I could see that dc_mattj | 19:54 |
| shamail | Does anyone have any topics that we should focus on for the next meeting? | 19:54 |
| shamail | I would like to recap the discussion (and top items) identified today to hopefully get input from more participants | 19:55 |
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| shamail | and then, if Edgar agrees to share the session, determine what we can work on while in Austin | 19:55 |
| dc_mattj | +1 | 19:55 |
| shamail | maishsk: any suggestions? | 19:55 |
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| maishsk | How about quantifying and laying out the criteria for one of the groups that have concensus | 19:55 |
| maishsk | such as User Meetups | 19:55 |
| shamail | We can do that! | 19:55 |
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| maishsk | Start with the low hanging fruit | 19:56 |
| dc_mattj | we've formalised most of that today, so not too difficult | 19:56 |
| shamail | It will almost be like a preview of what we are getting ourselves into for milestone 3 | 19:56 |
| dc_mattj | +1 | 19:56 |
| maishsk | and if we have more time do the same for Working group participants | 19:56 |
| shamail | once we have agreement on the topics discussed today | 19:56 |
| dc_mattj | always start with the low hanging fruit ;) | 19:56 |
| shamail | the next phase is to establish criteria, and more importantly, how to validate it | 19:56 |
| shamail | dc_mattj: ++ | 19:56 |
| pholland | +1 agreed | 19:57 |
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| shamail | WG participants will be a deeper topic maishsk | 19:57 |
| dc_mattj | do you get people participating in WG's who don't actually add anything ? | 19:57 |
| shamail | each WG has their own way of tracking participantion today | 19:57 |
| dc_mattj | the WG stuff is new to me, this is the first one I've been on | 19:57 |
| shamail | not often dc_mattj but some times you will see people show up for a specific need and then not re-engage | 19:57 |
| dc_mattj | difficult to track on IRC other than word count ;) | 19:58 |
| shamail | yeah | 19:58 |
| shamail | and not all WGs use IRC | 19:58 |
| shamail | some use etherpads and conference bridges | 19:58 |
| dc_mattj | right | 19:58 |
| shamail | #topic Open | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open (Meeting topic: nonatc)" | 19:58 | |
| MeganR | and not all are comfortable with IRC :) | 19:58 |
| shamail | Anyone have any other topics to add or discuss? | 19:58 |
| dc_mattj | good discussion folks :) | 19:58 |
| shamail | MeganR: true true | 19:59 |
| pholland | thank you | 19:59 |
| maishsk | Nothing from my side - (as usual - great discussion) | 19:59 |
| shamail | agree! productive! | 19:59 |
| shamail | Appreciate the passion, 5 people filled the hour :) | 19:59 |
| dc_mattj | would be great to continue this F2F in Austin if we can | 19:59 |
| shamail | dc_mattj: +1 | 19:59 |
| shamail | and welcome pholland :) | 19:59 |
| MeganR | +1 | 19:59 |
| dc_mattj | its an important topic | 19:59 |
| shamail | (you said you didn’t make the first one) | 19:59 |
| shamail | absolutely | 20:00 |
| MeganR | on both the F2F in Austin and welcome! | 20:00 |
| shamail | alright, ending the meeting | 20:00 |
| shamail | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 14 20:00:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nonatc/2016/nonatc.2016-04-14-18.59.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nonatc/2016/nonatc.2016-04-14-18.59.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nonatc/2016/nonatc.2016-04-14-18.59.log.html | 20:00 |
| shamail | Farewell! | 20:00 |
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