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| sc` | #startmeeting openstack_chef | 16:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 16 16:02:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack_chef)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_chef' | 16:02 |
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| sc` | o/ | 16:02 |
| milan | o/ | 16:02 |
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| sc` | will give about 10 minutes for people to join | 16:05 |
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| sc` | didn't think anyone would be around. going to call it | 16:16 |
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| sc` | #endmeeting | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:17 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 16 16:17:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:17 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-05-16-16.02.html | 16:17 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-05-16-16.02.txt | 16:17 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_chef/2016/openstack_chef.2016-05-16-16.02.log.html | 16:17 |
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| jroll | #startmeeting ironic | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 16 17:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jroll. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 17:00 |
| jroll | hai everyone | 17:00 |
| mariojv | o/ | 17:00 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 17:00 |
| mat128 | o/ | 17:00 |
| rama_y | o/ | 17:00 |
| NobodyCam | 0/ | 17:00 |
| NobodyCam | :p | 17:00 |
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| yuriyz|2 | o/ | 17:00 |
| vdrok | o/ | 17:00 |
| rloo | o/ | 17:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 17:00 |
| mgould | o/7 | 17:00 |
| jroll | #chair devananda NobodyCam | 17:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: NobodyCam devananda jroll | 17:00 |
| jroll | #topic announcements and reminders | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements and reminders (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:01 | |
| dtantsur | o/ | 17:01 |
| blakec | o/ | 17:01 |
| lucasagomes | o/ | 17:01 |
| jroll | so, people have been chugging along on grenade work | 17:01 |
| jroll | it seems to be going well, lots of fun there | 17:01 |
| vsaienko1 | o/ | 17:01 |
| NobodyCam | great work every one! | 17:01 |
| jroll | I also have a chain of patches up for all the deprecated stuff we need to drop, if people want to get that done https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/ironic+branch:master+topic:deprecations | 17:02 |
| milan | o/ | 17:02 |
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| sambetts | o/ | 17:03 |
| jroll | last, looks like the virtual vs physical midcycle doodle is overwhelmingly in support of virtual: http://doodle.com/poll/4vm5ea28t3qyn7bp | 17:03 |
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| krtaylor | o/ | 17:03 |
| jroll | I'll send out a more official email about that later[ | 17:03 |
| jroll | any other announcements or reminders? | 17:03 |
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| rloo | jroll: which means it will be virtual? | 17:04 |
| jroll | rloo: yes | 17:04 |
| rloo | jroll: thx. I wanted that yes recorded :D | 17:04 |
| lucasagomes | heh | 17:04 |
| jroll | hah | 17:04 |
| rloo | possible date will be another poll? | 17:05 |
| jroll | maybe! | 17:05 |
| rloo | :) | 17:06 |
| jroll | #topic subteam status updates | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam status updates (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:06 | |
| jroll | as always: | 17:06 |
| jroll | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard | 17:06 |
| pas-ha | o/ | 17:06 |
| jroll | starts at line 80 this week | 17:06 |
| rloo | dtantsur: wrt spring bug clean up, would it be good for folks to help you. maybe *after* the grenade effort? | 17:08 |
| jroll | ++ | 17:08 |
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| jlvillal | jroll: Back-tracking. On the virtual midcycle, are there date-ranges when think it will happen? Can I assume that will be in the follow-up email :) | 17:09 |
| jroll | jlvillal: I haven't thought much about it, sorry | 17:09 |
| * jlvillal would vote for not conflicting with Nova mid-cycle. Especially since he is on vacation that week :) | 17:09 | |
| jroll | jlvillal: it won't, I'll be busy at nova midcycle that week :P | 17:09 |
| dtantsur | rloo, yeah | 17:10 |
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| jroll | anything else on subteam updates? | 17:11 |
| rloo | lots of great work done on grenade and gate stuff. i hope you have been chugging beer too. | 17:11 |
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| sivaramakrishna | vsaienko1: there? | 17:11 |
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| vsaienko1 | sivaramakrishna yes | 17:12 |
| sivaramakrishna | I've rebased the devstack related patches https://review.openstack.org/#/c/256364/ etc | 17:12 |
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| jroll | can this be taken outside of the meeting? :) | 17:13 |
| jroll | (unless it's a topic for the group | 17:13 |
| jroll | ) | 17:13 |
| jlvillal | +1 | 17:13 |
| sivaramakrishna | sure, jroll | 17:13 |
| jroll | thanks | 17:13 |
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| jroll | moving on | 17:13 |
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| jroll | #topic Active Node Creation/adopt | 17:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Active Node Creation/adopt (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:13 | |
| jroll | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275766 | 17:13 |
| * jroll hands rloo the mic | 17:13 | |
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| rloo | so i just want to know if we want to have adopt be changed to deploy | 17:14 |
| rloo | if the microversion is older | 17:14 |
| rloo | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275766/17/ironic/api/controllers/v1/node.py | 17:14 |
| rloo | line 133 | 17:14 |
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| rloo | there are a few +2 for that patch | 17:15 |
| rloo | i don't think there should be. | 17:15 |
| devananda | rloo: that seems to me to be a good shim for backwards compatibility, eg. with Nova | 17:15 |
| jroll | yeah, I don't recall a group chat about this | 17:15 |
| devananda | rloo: could you explain what risk or negative impact you think it will have? | 17:15 |
| mat128 | rloo: I vaguely remember an against against: old API microversion cannot act on "adopt" the same way we can act on "deploy" | 17:15 |
| jlvillal | What would it report then? I assume this is just to report the state to an old client. | 17:15 |
| rloo | devananda: well, we don't do anything for eg inspector | 17:15 |
| NobodyCam | I see the point, but I personally don't see a issue with it | 17:15 |
| devananda | jlvillal: that is my understanding as well | 17:16 |
| rloo | we aren't consistent with it. and does it make sense that 'adopt' is 'deploy'? | 17:16 |
| devananda | make a node in the ADOPTING transition appear to older clients in a way that they understand it | 17:16 |
| dtantsur | jlvillal, the truth like we always do? | 17:16 |
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| jroll | so julia said: "I think we shouldn't be exposing new node states to older clients, and that is represented in the specification, that we conceal to older clients. IMO, it is a breaking change because the state is leveraged for programatic decisions by API clients." | 17:16 |
| NobodyCam | devananda: jlvillal: that is my understanding too | 17:16 |
| dtantsur | devananda, the clients have to be ready for unknown states. otherwise any additions breaks them | 17:16 |
| rloo | what about 'clean'. what should we do there? | 17:16 |
| jroll | if "the state is leveraged for programatic decisions by API clients", we shouldn't lie about the state | 17:17 |
| dtantsur | e.g. you can't replace ENROLL with anything. Nor CLEANING. | 17:17 |
| devananda | rloo: inspecting isn't a state within the AVAILABLE->ACTIVE->AVAILABLE cycle, ie, that Nova cares about | 17:17 |
| dtantsur | devananda, neither is ADOPTING, it does not start with AVAILABLE | 17:17 |
| rloo | i don't want to focus on nova specifically. just want to know how we want to handle this and all states we've added | 17:17 |
| jroll | fwiw, this won't break nova | 17:17 |
| rloo | devananda: are you saying that this is actually needed for nova? | 17:18 |
| jroll | nova only cares if a thing is available or not | 17:18 |
| jroll | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/ironic/driver.py#L179 | 17:18 |
| dtantsur | yeah, I don't get the nova argument here too. we introduce new states constantly, it never broke them | 17:18 |
| * jlvillal wonders if we should have an "UNKNOWN" state to report to older clients? | 17:18 | |
| jroll | there *is* this: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/ironic/driver.py#L72 | 17:18 |
| jlvillal | You don't know about this state, go away... | 17:18 |
| jroll | but you can't unprovision from adopting or deploying, so it's irrelevant | 17:18 |
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| rloo | so I understand what julia meant wrt not showing new states etc. but the truth is that we haven't been hiding new states. so why start now. or do we want to hide new states? | 17:18 |
| devananda | jroll: right | 17:18 |
| jroll | apparently you can from deploying? wat? | 17:18 |
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| dtantsur | jlvillal, how will it help anyone? | 17:18 |
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| dtantsur | except for our love to microversion everything? | 17:19 |
| jroll | which shows me even more we shouldn't pretend this is deploying | 17:19 |
| rloo | adopting is NOT deploying | 17:19 |
| lucasagomes | I'm a bit out of context (I haven't reviewed the patch) but I tend to agree with rloo re inconsistencies | 17:19 |
| lucasagomes | since it hasn't been the case for other states | 17:20 |
| jroll | so I agree with rloo here, and have commented as such on the patch | 17:20 |
| jroll | if someone can convince me this is necessary for some reason, I'm happy to listen | 17:20 |
| jlvillal | Does that also imply that clients should not break if they see a state they don't know about? | 17:20 |
| mat128 | jlvillal: thought that was already the case | 17:20 |
| jlvillal | It makes sense to me to have it that way. | 17:21 |
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| devananda | jroll: an older client can not reasonably act on a node in a state that didn't exist in the version which that client was designed for | 17:21 |
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| jroll | devananda: do we assert that an older client should be able to reasonably act on a node that is in the ADOPTING state? | 17:21 |
| mat128 | devananda: how did we introduce inspecting? | 17:22 |
| jroll | devananda: especially when we lie about that state? | 17:22 |
| dtantsur | mat128, and enroll. and cleaning (actually cleaning was a troublesome one, it did break nova iirc) | 17:22 |
| devananda | jroll: fair point. nope. | 17:22 |
| jroll | :) | 17:22 |
| jroll | if we lie about the state, bad decisions will be made | 17:22 |
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| NobodyCam | would it be better to obj.provision_state = ir_states.AVAILABLE | 17:24 |
| jroll | so does anyone still agree that we should munge this state in the api response? | 17:24 |
| dtantsur | NobodyCam, oh no, nova will try to use it | 17:24 |
| jroll | NobodyCam: huh? | 17:24 |
| jroll | yeah that | 17:24 |
| devananda | jroll: and if we return the state to older clients, are we certain they'll ignore it? | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | gah ... Active!!! | 17:24 |
| NobodyCam | :p | 17:24 |
| lucasagomes | NobodyCam, I think no, cause then the client could potentially act against AVAIALBLE | 17:24 |
| mat128 | NobodyCam: ACTIVE would be closer to the truth, considering a node will transition into active when it's done | 17:24 |
| mat128 | but still lying | 17:24 |
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| lucasagomes | but since it's not really AVAILABLE, things can happen (bad ones) | 17:25 |
| dtantsur | NobodyCam, we do support a couple of actions on ACTIVE, which we can't support on ADOPTING | 17:25 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: active won't work either, cuz it is adopting. after adopting, if it succeeds, it will be active. | 17:25 |
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| devananda | mat128: I believe that's the point of the current patch. returning DEPLOYING because the node will transition to ACTIVE when adoption finishes | 17:25 |
| jroll | devananda: ignore it in terms of... not do something with it or? | 17:25 |
| devananda | jroll: right | 17:25 |
| jroll | devananda: I mean, I would hope so, but I can't speak for code I don't know | 17:25 |
| NobodyCam | AVAILABLE was bad typing ... ACTIVE was what I was thinking | 17:25 |
| devananda | jroll: as opposed to, say, tyring to do things it can't do (which, you have a valid point, would also happen if we return DEPLOYING and the client tries to DELETE) | 17:26 |
| mat128 | NobodyCam: ACTIVE should have instance_uuid, this one wont | 17:26 |
| vdrok | if we want to substitute, deploying is the best fit I think, actions are the same. but it seems we don't | 17:26 |
| jroll | devananda: "if state is something I've never coded for, do something destructive" sounds crazy, if someone writes that code that's their own gun pointed at their feet imo | 17:26 |
| lucasagomes | mat128, not necessarily if used in stand-alone mode | 17:26 |
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| mat128 | lucasagomes: true.. | 17:26 |
| dtantsur | ACTIVE is a stable state, I don't think we should consider it.. | 17:27 |
| lucasagomes | mat128, but ACTIVE does allow user to delete the instance (which can turn out bad) | 17:27 |
| devananda | jroll: I've seen code assume things like "if state in LIST_OF_STATES: do this; else: do that;" | 17:27 |
| lucasagomes | yeah I think the best fit is actually DEPLOYING, but not sure it's _required_ | 17:27 |
| devananda | jroll: so it is code like that I am concerned about | 17:27 |
| mat128 | lucasagomes: what happens if we just return ADOPTING? Can we confirm it won't break a node-list on older client? | 17:27 |
| vdrok | and btw, nova won't manage adopted nodes right? | 17:27 |
| jroll | devananda: yeah, but 'that' being something destructive? idk | 17:27 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: fwiw, ADOPTING does not allow delete | 17:27 |
| devananda | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275766/17/ironic/common/states.py | 17:27 |
| rloo | look, we have a lot of new states since 'adopting' (sorry) the new state machine: http://docs-draft.openstack.org/66/275766/17/check/gate-ironic-docs/52915ef//doc/build/html/_images/states.svg | 17:28 |
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| dtantsur | devananda, then here's the question: are we ready to do it every time now? even when we don't have a good candidate? like imagine we would have to introduce ENROLL. | 17:28 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, yup yeah that's reinforce the idea of not using ACTIVE to mask it | 17:28 |
| rloo | we do not (yet) handle masking new states from older versions. | 17:28 |
| lucasagomes | mat128, we can totally test that, it should not off the top of my head | 17:28 |
| dtantsur | (apparently we broken all that people when we did it already, so now they're ready :D ) | 17:28 |
| devananda | dtantsur: yea, we've had similar discussions (and difficulties) every time we've introduced new states | 17:28 |
| * jroll pulls the pin and asks "is our state machine part of our api contract?" | 17:29 | |
| devananda | jroll: yes | 17:29 |
| rloo | it seems like we introduced microversions when we introduced enroll. the versioning was meant to handle these new states. | 17:29 |
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| dtantsur | rloo, we introduced microversions on NOSTATE->AVAILABLE change | 17:29 |
| dtantsur | which was breaking for nearly everyone starting with Nova | 17:29 |
| devananda | jroll: the list of "verbs" that an API accepts is part of that contract | 17:30 |
| jlvillal | hmmm NOSTATE... | 17:30 |
| dtantsur | it's unclear to me whether introducing ADOPTING breaks anyone, who already recovered from ENROLL and CLEANING | 17:30 |
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| jroll | devananda: yes, but that isn't strictly the state machine | 17:30 |
| rloo | ++ dtantsur | 17:30 |
| devananda | jroll: it is how one interacts with the state machine | 17:30 |
| dtantsur | but NOSTATE is different, it IS a synonym for AVAILABLE | 17:30 |
| jroll | devananda: I'm asking e.g. is the list of possible states part of the api contract? | 17:30 |
| mgould | ISTM the real problem is that we have no way of saying "your client must be at least this recent to talk to me" | 17:30 |
| jroll | devananda: are transient states part of the contract? | 17:31 |
| jroll | etc | 17:31 |
| mat128 | state machine changed when new nodes started in "enroll" instead of "available" | 17:31 |
| devananda | jroll: ok. that's slightly different than the acceptable verbs, but I also believe that's part of the contract | 17:31 |
| devananda | jroll: think of a programming API. if a function introduces a different return code, is that a change in the contract? | 17:31 |
| jlvillal | I said this before, but can the contract also be if you see a state you don't know about don't crash and don't try to do things on that node. | 17:31 |
| rloo | it seems to me that if someone does something to ironic using version X, we shouldn't have to guarantee that everything will work loverly if they then use version X-i. | 17:32 |
| mat128 | rloo: but staying on version X and not hiding ADOPT means I will see ADOPT at some point | 17:32 |
| mat128 | just because Ironic was upgraded, but api version stayed the same | 17:32 |
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| jroll | devananda: well, it depends, right? do the docs for that function say "returns an integer" or "returns an integer, one of [0, 1, 2, 3]" | 17:33 |
| rloo | mat128: i mean microversion. you mean v1/v2 of the URL? | 17:33 |
| dtantsur | mat128, meaning someone in your cloud started using X+i and new features... | 17:33 |
| devananda | jroll: indeed | 17:33 |
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| * mgould thinks we're doing this backwards | 17:33 | |
| mgould | client sets the API version, server tries to handle it | 17:34 |
| mgould | it should be the server that sets the version, and the client that has to adjust | 17:34 |
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| jroll | devananda: and here is our doc on the Node object in an api response http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic/webapi/v1.html#ironic.api.controllers.v1.node.Node.provision_state | 17:34 |
| dtantsur | mgould, well, that's not the intention of API versioning in our case :) | 17:34 |
| jroll | devananda: which is "Represent the current (not transition) provision state of the node" | 17:34 |
| rloo | mgould: that won't work; it'd really break clients. | 17:34 |
| mat128 | why not hide anything that doesnt exist for a microversion under an "UNKNOWN" state? | 17:34 |
| devananda | mgould: we have a mechanism in place for the server to indicate the minimum version the client must support to interact with it | 17:34 |
| dtantsur | mat128, how is it different? people start seeing UNKNOWN nodes at random stages of their lifecycle | 17:35 |
| devananda | mgould: are you suggesting that we should raise that minimum version? | 17:35 |
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| mgould | devananda, yes | 17:35 |
| dtantsur | hmmmmmm | 17:35 |
| devananda | that's interesting | 17:35 |
| mat128 | dtantsur: yes, but at least it keeps working. If we require a new-enough client, that means I can't even upgrade Ironic | 17:35 |
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| mgould | but IIRC the last time we had this discussion we concluded that we could never ever raise it | 17:35 |
| mat128 | dtantsur: If you want to know what the UNKNOWN means, you can always use a newer API version | 17:35 |
| dtantsur | mat128, we don't require anything. you just should not make assumptions about things we explicitly don't guarantee. like that we'll never add more states. | 17:36 |
| mgould | because by definition that would break clients | 17:36 |
| devananda | we could, in a response that includes nodes with ADOPTING state, include the X-OpenStack-ironic-API-Min-Version: 1.xx header | 17:36 |
| devananda | just for that response | 17:36 |
| pas-ha | never ever is too heavy brick to carry | 17:36 |
| jroll | ... | 17:36 |
| mgould | pas-ha, exactly | 17:36 |
| jroll | devananda: pls no | 17:36 |
| rloo | i think raising the minimum version is a different discussion. unless you thinkwe should raise it whenever we have something that isn't 'backwards compatible' | 17:36 |
| devananda | I haven't thought this through yet - just tossing the idea out | 17:36 |
| mgould | rloo, YES! :-) | 17:36 |
| dtantsur | devananda, I already imaging getting bugzillas like "ironicclient crashes on my deployment"... | 17:36 |
| dtantsur | I mean, I like your idea, but only in an ideal world :) | 17:36 |
| devananda | jroll: I don't mean "raise it all the time" - just raise it for the response that includes incompatible things | 17:36 |
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| devananda | dtantsur: hehe | 17:37 |
| jroll | rloo: mgould: that completely defeats the purpose of versioning at all | 17:37 |
| rloo | mgould: that is totally against the idea behind microversions | 17:37 |
| jroll | yeah | 17:37 |
| jroll | might as well just not version | 17:37 |
| * dtantsur feels like the discussion goes a bit too far | 17:37 | |
| * lucasagomes feels the same | 17:37 | |
| jroll | devananda: right, I think a minimum that changes based on the endpoint or response is HOLY COW | 17:37 |
| rloo | jroll: right, and i have to say, i like that idea. not versioning and not caring about breaking people's stuff. | 17:37 |
| devananda | so, I believe this is actually exactly what version negotiation is for | 17:37 |
| devananda | rather than the client to behave unexpectedly when it gets a result it does'nt understand | 17:37 |
| dtantsur | rloo++ | 17:38 |
| mgould | jroll, oh right, I don't like the idea of min-version being a function of endpoint either | 17:38 |
| devananda | it would fail early with a message such as "unable to talk to this endpoint, required version XX" | 17:38 |
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| devananda | also, yea, we're pretty far off track now ... | 17:38 |
| jroll | real talk: do we expect a deployment that is using this feature to ever use a version lower than the one that introduces this feature? | 17:38 |
| dtantsur | I hope not, but I'm afraid yes | 17:39 |
| vdrok | can we just state somewhere - don't do anything with a node in a state you don't know about? Is it enough? | 17:39 |
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| sambetts | wouldn't that lead to the client failing transiently? e.g. if I did a node-list it would work sometimes but not others | 17:39 |
| NobodyCam | dtantsur: ++ | 17:39 |
| dtantsur | e.g. imagine people using 3rd party tooling for Ironic | 17:39 |
| jroll | great :| | 17:39 |
| jroll | ok, so this comes down to two sides: | 17:39 |
| devananda | jroll: absolutely | 17:39 |
| jroll | 1) lie about the actual state of the node | 17:39 |
| jroll | 2) pass an unknown state to clients | 17:39 |
| mgould | jroll: 1.1) lie in different ways about the actual state of the node to different clients | 17:40 |
| mat128 | we have 3rd party tooling for Ironic here, and from checking: it wont crash for an unknown state (thankfully), but if we raise min-version is breaks :( | 17:40 |
| rloo | 3) return the actual state | 17:40 |
| jroll | rloo: 2 == 3 | 17:40 |
| dtantsur | I think 3==2 | 17:40 |
| lucasagomes | rloo, I think that's 2 | 17:40 |
| lucasagomes | yeah | 17:40 |
| rloo | oh, sorry. | 17:40 |
| jlvillal | I vote for 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle | 17:40 |
| wajdi | report the correct state, but indicate to the client that the version does not allow for manipulating that state? | 17:40 |
| jroll | 2) pass a new unknown state to clients | 17:40 |
| jlvillal | As in the clients should be robust in accepting unknown states. | 17:40 |
| * rloo thought 2 was a new "unknown" state. | 17:41 | |
| mat128 | "UNKNOWN" or actual state should be no different if clients are coded correctly | 17:41 |
| jroll | 2) pass a new unknown state (adopting) to clients | 17:41 |
| jroll | :) | 17:41 |
| mat128 | I'm afraid they might not, so "UNKNOWN" might help us in the future | 17:41 |
| rloo | 2) is consistent with what we are doing currently | 17:41 |
| vdrok | wajdi: but then older clients won't understand this indication? :) | 17:41 |
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| dtantsur | mat128, if they care about adopting UNKNOWN, they might as well care about avoiding hardcoding the whole list of states | 17:42 |
| jroll | do we need some sort of formal meeting/ML vote on this, or can we be adults and handle it in gerrit? | 17:42 |
| jroll | (and is there more to discuss?) | 17:42 |
| thiagop | jroll: I think you shoud do a "vote" to clarify options due to the confusion in 2 | 17:42 |
| rloo | why can't we vote now? | 17:42 |
| mat128 | dtantsur: thats why I said "if they are coded properly", fwiw the only 3rd party client I know of would accept either | 17:42 |
| jlvillal | Does: pass a new unknown state to clients in this particular case mean "ADOPTING". Assuming it doesn't mean a state "UNKNOWN" | 17:42 |
| devananda | jroll: fwiw, after discussing this, I agree with (2) | 17:43 |
| lucasagomes | I think 2 is consistent to what've done in the past. Plus, adopting is a rare (for lack of better word) state? Since it's used to migrate existing workloads to ironic and should not happen often | 17:43 |
| NobodyCam | just pointing out that the author is not here for this. | 17:43 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: the author was fine with a vote on it. see her comments. | 17:43 |
| devananda | I had thought that (1) would allow it to be compatible with existing clients (eg, Nova), but it clearly won't be | 17:44 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: in some environments, it may not be all that rare | 17:44 |
| rloo | NobodyCam: line 136, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275766/12/ironic/api/controllers/v1/node.py | 17:44 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, fair, but it's like a operator driving action. It's not like CLEANING which is actually part of the "main loop" | 17:44 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: true | 17:45 |
| dtantsur | devananda, out of curiosity: do you envision using both Nova and ADOPT in one deployment? ADOPT does not play with nova at all, right? | 17:45 |
| jroll | okay are folks ready to vote on this then? | 17:45 |
| dtantsur | (feel free to answer in channel) | 17:45 |
| devananda | dtantsur: absolutely | 17:45 |
| devananda | imagine a phased migration of a very large existing bare metal deployment -- as existing DCs are connected to the nova+ironic management layer ,they get "adopted" | 17:45 |
| mariojv | ready to vote | 17:45 |
| jroll | #startvote should we (1) change the provision_state in the api response to deploying or (2) return the actual (adopting) provision_state in the api response? 1, 2 | 17:46 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: should we (1) change the provision_state in the api response to deploying or (2) return the actual (adopting) provision_state in the api response? Valid vote options are 1, 2. | 17:46 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 17:46 |
| mat128 | devananda: then there's the issue of "how do I get instances without deploying anything?" :) | 17:46 |
| devananda | jroll: ++ | 17:46 |
| jroll | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| dtantsur | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| lucasagomes | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| mariojv | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| jlvillal | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| mgould | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| mat128 | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| devananda | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| NobodyCam | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| vdrok | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| thiagop | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| sambetts | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| wajdi | #vote 2 | 17:46 |
| devananda | mat128: you mean eg. boot from volume? | 17:46 |
| jroll | and somehow we're still talking about this? :) | 17:47 |
| rloo | #vote 2 | 17:47 |
| mat128 | devananda: like I have a thousand machines to "import" into the OpenStack world, they come from an old world system | 17:47 |
| * jroll gives it another 2 minutes or so | 17:47 | |
| mat128 | I want instances and nodes, but must not touch power state or data | 17:47 |
| devananda | jroll: good job getting everyone to a concensus :) | 17:47 |
| jroll | heh | 17:47 |
| mat128 | devananda: This bp helps me getting the nodes in, but instances are something else that has to be taken care of | 17:47 |
| devananda | mat128: ah - I see. you mean how to create the corresponding Nova instances? | 17:48 |
| rloo | mat128: yes, it doesn't address how to hook it in with nova. | 17:48 |
| mat128 | devananda: exactly | 17:48 |
| jroll | mat128: insert into instances ...; "D | 17:48 |
| mat128 | rloo: yup, that's future work | 17:48 |
| jroll | s/"D/:D | 17:48 |
| mat128 | Haha | 17:48 |
| devananda | jroll: :) | 17:48 |
| mat128 | we were aiming more for nova boot with nodes on the fake driver, but whatever works | 17:48 |
| mat128 | you have to deal with Neutron and stuff | 17:48 |
| mat128 | #offtopic | 17:48 |
| mat128 | next? | 17:48 |
| jroll | ya | 17:49 |
| jroll | #endvote | 17:49 |
| openstack | Voted on "should we (1) change the provision_state in the api response to deploying or (2) return the actual (adopting) provision_state in the api response?" Results are | 17:49 |
| openstack | 2 (14): lucasagomes, devananda, rloo, jlvillal, mariojv, mgould, mat128, dtantsur, jroll, NobodyCam, wajdi, sambetts, vdrok, thiagop | 17:49 |
| jroll | now | 17:49 |
| jroll | please go apply those votes in gerrit :) | 17:49 |
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| jroll | #topic open discussion | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:49 | |
| * jroll welcomes people to throw random dates at him for midcycle-ing | 17:49 | |
| jroll | the week of june 27 and july 18 are out | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, I would end of june ? | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | I will, * | 17:50 |
| rloo | jroll: would it be useful before or after nova or doesn't matter? | 17:50 |
| jroll | rloo: not sure it matters | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, btw, how many days? 3 days? | 17:50 |
| dtantsur | I'm out July 22-29 | 17:50 |
| thiagop | rloo: good question | 17:50 |
| jroll | fwiw, I'd like to do it earlier and maybe have a second one late in the cycle :) | 17:51 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: yeah, I think 3 days works | 17:51 |
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| jroll | but whatever y'all think is good | 17:51 |
| jlvillal | June looks good for me. and early July. | 17:51 |
| vdrok | same for me | 17:51 |
| mariojv | ++ end of june | 17:51 |
| jroll | btw, here's newton schedule http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 17:51 |
| lucasagomes | 27-29 June | 17:51 |
| jroll | lucasagomes: I won't be around that week :/ | 17:52 |
| rloo | didn't jroll mention that the week of june 27 is out? | 17:52 |
| jlvillal | And I like the idea of trying to get in two of them. One soon and one later. | 17:52 |
| rloo | is june 20 too soon? | 17:52 |
| jroll | I guess we could do it that week, you all don't need me there :) | 17:52 |
| lucasagomes | jroll, right, 20-22 maybe? | 17:52 |
| jroll | yeah I'm good with the week of the 20th | 17:52 |
| vdrok | and when is nova's midcycle? | 17:52 |
| jlvillal | Maybe only two days for 2nd one. Third day was sort of quiet last time. | 17:52 |
| mariojv | 20th wfm too | 17:52 |
| NobodyCam | I'll be out 21st as its my birthday | 17:52 |
| jroll | vdrok: july 19-21 | 17:52 |
| rloo | july 11? | 17:53 |
| mariojv | maybe a doodle would be good for this | 17:53 |
| NobodyCam | 7/11 wfm | 17:53 |
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| mat128 | mariojv: +1 for doodle | 17:53 |
| jroll | yeah, planning on a doodle | 17:53 |
| jroll | just wanted to hear initial ideas | 17:53 |
| rloo | i think those two weeks are the candidates. june 20 & july 11. cuz i said so :D | 17:54 |
| vdrok | jroll: just wondering as there is this generic resource pools, we might want to sync on this somehow with nova? | 17:54 |
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| rloo | vdrok: ++. but jroll will be at nova mid-cycle. | 17:54 |
| jroll | vdrok: totally, I'll try to get jaypipes at our midcycle, I'll also be at nova's | 17:54 |
| vdrok | cool, thanks :) | 17:55 |
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| rloo | it might almost be worth having a separate meeting *just* to discuss resource pools/etc. | 17:55 |
| jroll | yeah | 17:55 |
| rloo | like soon. in next 2 weeks or so. cuz i am guessing we will procrastinate and not look/think about it until we have to. | 17:56 |
| jroll | yeah | 17:56 |
| rloo | err. I mean, like after we get grenade working. | 17:56 |
| jroll | to be clear I don't think there's even the nova spec up for that | 17:56 |
| vdrok | jroll: there is | 17:56 |
| jroll | but we should figure it out and get started on the ironic side | 17:56 |
| rloo | you mean jay pipe's spec? there is. | 17:56 |
| jroll | kinda, it's wip | 17:57 |
| jroll | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/312696/ | 17:57 |
| jroll | oh, y'all are already reviewing, good | 17:57 |
| rloo | yeah, that one. | 17:57 |
| vdrok | also this one, knid of related - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/300176/ | 17:58 |
| rloo | vdrok: OH. I wondered if generic resource pools was already a thing or not. | 17:58 |
| NobodyCam | *two minutes left* | 17:58 |
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| jroll | yeah, that's the earlier step in the chain | 17:58 |
| vdrok | rloo: not yet :) | 17:58 |
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| rloo | vdrok: i didn't see anything in the first spec that mentions the second spec. | 17:59 |
| rloo | this ain't going to be done in Newton. | 17:59 |
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| vdrok | rloo: there is only a name of bp somewhere in the spec itself | 17:59 |
| jroll | probably not, but if we can all agree on the path, we can get whatever we need done on the ironic side | 17:59 |
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| rloo | jroll: exactly. | 18:00 |
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| vdrok | we can do search api anyway | 18:00 |
| rloo | yup, i think search and claims API can still be done. | 18:00 |
| jroll | well, it's unclear if we need a search api | 18:00 |
| flwang1 | hi guys | 18:00 |
| jroll | oh, out of time | 18:00 |
| rloo | search API is useful regardless, don't you htink? | 18:00 |
| Eva-i | hello | 18:00 |
| jroll | flwang1: we'll be in #openstack-ironic if you're looking for us | 18:00 |
| jlvillal | time! | 18:00 |
| rloo | although maybe not a high priority any more. | 18:00 |
| jroll | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 16 18:00:47 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-05-16-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-05-16-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-05-16-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
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| mariojv | have a good day all | 18:01 |
| jroll | flwang1: if you're here for another meeting, sorry for running late on this one :) | 18:01 |
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| flwang1 | jroll: no worries | 18:01 |
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| flwang1 | #startmeeting zaqar | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 16 18:01:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is flwang1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 18:01 | |
| Eva-i | flwang1: vkmc: flaper87: hello | 18:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar' | 18:01 |
| vkmc | o/ | 18:01 |
| vkmc | hey | 18:01 |
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| flwang1 | #topic roll call | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 18:02 | |
| flwang1 | o/ | 18:02 |
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| Eva-i | o/ | 18:02 |
| flwang1 | seems we will miss flaper87 and ryansb | 18:02 |
| vkmc | o/ | 18:02 |
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| Eva-i | yes | 18:03 |
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| flwang1 | so like i mentioned, today's agenda will be simple | 18:03 |
| flwang1 | some important patch to review and the assignments for newton | 18:04 |
| flwang1 | #topic code review | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code review (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 18:04 | |
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| Eva-i | I think this patch is important: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/294368/. But I haven't reviewed it yet. | 18:05 |
| flwang1 | i think Eva-i's patch for subscription's age are ready to go | 18:05 |
| flwang1 | Eva-i: yep, thanks for raising it. blame me. | 18:06 |
| Eva-i | yeah, these patches: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/288907/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/288908/ | 18:06 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: no, you blame me | 18:06 |
| flwang1 | we need to get the client patch in, asap | 18:06 |
| flwang1 | in N-1 and after that, i will release a new version for our client | 18:06 |
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| Eva-i | oki =/ | 18:07 |
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| flwang1 | and my tempest patch, though it's redis gate is still strugling https://review.openstack.org/302479 | 18:09 |
| flwang1 | i guess our sqlalchemy code is not thread safe | 18:09 |
| flwang1 | and Eva-i's redis claim fix https://review.openstack.org/#/c/314273/ | 18:10 |
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| Eva-i | yes, I would like it | 18:11 |
| flwang1 | i know after the summit, many peoples are not in the good status to coding/reviewing, but let's rock on since now :) | 18:11 |
| flwang1 | s/to/for | 18:11 |
| Eva-i | yes =) | 18:12 |
| flwang1 | ok, anything else we need to talk for code review? | 18:12 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: I think no | 18:13 |
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| flwang1 | Eva-i: ? | 18:13 |
| Eva-i | let's discuss assignments | 18:13 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: I asked your question | 18:13 |
| flwang1 | #topic newton assignments | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton assignments (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 18:14 | |
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| flwang1 | we still have a lot of things to do given our team size | 18:15 |
| Eva-i | So I assigned to myself "install guide" and "lazy queues in subscriptions". If everything will go smooth and fast, I'll take "improved notifications". | 18:15 |
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| Eva-i | I haven't taken much tasks, because I think I should start getting job. | 18:16 |
| flwang1 | Eva-i: ok, pls remind me, do we have a spec for lazy queue for subscription? | 18:16 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: yes, we have | 18:17 |
| flwang1 | Eva-i: i think i have merged it, right? | 18:17 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: let's see | 18:17 |
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| flwang1 | oh, it's merged | 18:18 |
| flwang1 | awesome | 18:18 |
| Eva-i | oh, oki | 18:18 |
| vkmc | do we have all the bps registered for newton? | 18:18 |
| flwang1 | Eva-i: let's get it done in N-1 | 18:18 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: yes, I remember | 18:18 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: not yet | 18:18 |
| vkmc | I know that some features were discussed in previous meetings, but it would be nice to get all of them in a single place | 18:18 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: can you approve then blueprint? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zaqar/+spec/lazy-queues-in-subscriptions | 18:19 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: i think only the notifitication format improvement hasn't been registered | 18:19 |
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| flwang1 | Eva-i: done :) | 18:20 |
| Eva-i | vkmc: I think here are all tasks https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-zaqar-assignment | 18:20 |
| vkmc | k k | 18:20 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: thanks | 18:20 |
| vkmc | thanks Eva-i | 18:20 |
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| flwang1 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-zaqar-assignment | 18:21 |
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| flwang1 | vkmc: except the sqlalchemy migration, anything else you would like to take? | 18:21 |
| vkmc | flwang1, looking on the list right now, I'll let you guys know offline | 18:22 |
| Eva-i | I think I need some help with install guide, it's almost ready, just one little problem blocks me | 18:22 |
| Eva-i | flwang1: can we discuss the problem in Zaqar chat later? | 18:23 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: ok, cool | 18:23 |
| flwang1 | Eva-i: sure | 18:23 |
| vkmc | thanks | 18:23 |
| flwang1 | i think i will work on the api ref doc and the dead letter queue | 18:24 |
| flwang1 | and walk around as a waiter | 18:24 |
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| flwang1 | or fireman | 18:24 |
| Eva-i | oh | 18:25 |
| Eva-i | okay | 18:26 |
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| flwang1 | and except those big tasks, we still have some small work to do | 18:27 |
| flwang1 | like fix the rally gate job | 18:27 |
| flwang1 | fix the tempest gate job | 18:27 |
| flwang1 | improve our log | 18:27 |
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| flwang1 | improve our tests of py3 | 18:27 |
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| Eva-i | yes, I'm not sure though I'll be able to spend much time of them | 18:29 |
| Eva-i | *for them | 18:29 |
| flwang1 | and another big job is support any potential user who would like to deploy zaqar in prod | 18:29 |
| flwang1 | and more integration with other projects | 18:30 |
| vkmc | yeah | 18:30 |
| vkmc | I'm aware that tripleo and heat are the ones using Zaqar atm | 18:30 |
| flwang1 | in Newton, i would like to see the integration with senlin | 18:30 |
| vkmc | but we had integration with Sahara, Senlin and Horizon pending | 18:30 |
| vkmc | different use cases | 18:30 |
| flwang1 | vkmc: ceilometer(aodh) has integrated with zaqar in Mitaka | 18:30 |
| vkmc | nice | 18:30 |
| flwang1 | horizon's integration depends on the integration with searchlight | 18:31 |
| Eva-i | Yes, integration is important. It's something that makes Zaqar more popular. | 18:31 |
| flwang1 | #link bp of searchlight https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246220/ | 18:31 |
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| flwang1 | so actually, we have tons of things to do | 18:33 |
| flwang1 | but our team is still very small | 18:33 |
| flwang1 | so another job is broadcasting the signal: zaqar is interesting, we need more people | 18:34 |
| Eva-i | zaqar needs funny youtube vids | 18:35 |
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| flwang1 | personally, i think the future of Openstack will need more upper layer service to build a good eco system(like aws), and zaqar is one of the critical parts | 18:35 |
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| flwang1 | Eva-i: yep, and we need some sample code, video, docs | 18:36 |
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| flwang1 | ok, given we're missing peoples in this meeting | 18:38 |
| flwang1 | so we may need to discuss those tasks' assignments later/offline | 18:38 |
| Eva-i | oki | 18:39 |
| flwang1 | #topic open discussion | 18:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 18:39 | |
| flwang1 | anything else we can discuss? | 18:39 |
| Eva-i | no, I think | 18:39 |
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| flwang1 | vkmc: any comments? | 18:41 |
| flwang1 | ok | 18:42 |
| flwang1 | Eva-i: thank you for joining | 18:42 |
| vkmc | nothing from me | 18:42 |
| flwang1 | #endmeeting | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 16 18:42:37 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2016/zaqar.2016-05-16-18.01.html | 18:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2016/zaqar.2016-05-16-18.01.txt | 18:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2016/zaqar.2016-05-16-18.01.log.html | 18:42 |
| vkmc | o | 18:42 |
| vkmc | o/ | 18:42 |
| vkmc | thx | 18:42 |
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