Thursday, 2016-05-26

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tidwellr_#startmeeting neutron_l315:00
openstackMeeting started Thu May 26 15:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tidwellr_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_l3'15:00
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tidwellr_#chair mlavalle carl_baldwin15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: carl_baldwin mlavalle tidwellr_15:00
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tidwellr_#topic Announcements15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"15:01
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tidwellr_the agenda can be found here
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carl_baldwinOne more week to N-115:02
carl_baldwinIf that.  It could be sooner.15:02
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mlavalleit usually is sooner15:03
tidwellr_thanks carl_baldwin15:03
tidwellr_anything other announcements?15:03
tidwellr_if not, let's move on15:04
carl_baldwinI wish we could announce the mid-cycle but I haven't seen it become official.15:04
carl_baldwinIt will be in mid-August and the unofficial word is that it will be in Cork, Ireland.15:04
carl_baldwinthat's all15:05
tidwellr_carl_baldwin: when do we expect plans to firm up on that?15:05
carl_baldwinAny time now.15:05
carl_baldwinWatch there ^15:06
tidwellr_thanks for the link15:06
tidwellr_#topic Bugs15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"15:07
openstackLaunchpad bug 1581918 in neutron "Sometimes DHCP agent spawns dnsmasq incorrectly" [High,Fix released] - Assigned to Kevin Benton (kevinbenton)15:07
tidwellr_working backwards through the list15:07
tidwellr_this one looks new15:07
tidwellr_and it's been fixed apparently15:07
tidwellr_moving on! :)15:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1564335 in neutron " [Pluggable IPAM] delete subnet in ml2 plugin does not comply with pluggable ipam (deletes ip allocations directly from db)" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Pavel Bondar (pasha117)15:08
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tidwellr_pavel_bondar: do you have any news to share on this one?15:09
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carl_baldwinWill look again15:09
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pavel_bondar_the first part of the patch is on review15:10
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pavel_bondar_and for the second part looks like we have a solution15:11
pavel_bondar_so I will work on implementing it15:11
carl_baldwinpavel_bondar_: I haven't seen much activity on the ML15:11
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carl_baldwinIt has been a week, I say we pursue the solution we discussed in the thread.15:12
carl_baldwintidwellr_: I think that's it.15:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1543094 in neutron "[Pluggable IPAM] DB exceeded retry limit (RetryRequest) on create_router call" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Ryan Tidwell (ryan-tidwell)15:13
pavel_bondar_carl_baldwin: I think we can pick solution with hacking 'fixed_ips' unless any other ideas come up15:13
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tidwellr_sorry, jumped the gun there. anything else on the previous bug?15:14
tidwellr_I haven't had much time to look at this one during the week15:15
tidwellr_I am stuck on this error #link
tidwellr_I'm not sure what I've changed that causes this, still needs more investigation15:16
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carl_baldwintidwellr_: It is strange.  I could maybe help look in to it a little bit if you want.15:16
carl_baldwintidwellr_: I looked at it enough to be sure that somehow your patch is causing this or uncovering it.15:16
tidwellr_carl_baldwin: that would be awesome, I haven't been able to devote time to it this week15:17
carl_baldwintidwellr_: Okay, I'll plan to look in to it a little bit today between trying to get reviews for routed netwroks.15:17
tidwellr_carl_baldwin: I'm convinced there's something about the patch that causes this15:17
carl_baldwin#action carl_baldwin will look in to errors in
openstackLaunchpad bug 1543094 in neutron "[Pluggable IPAM] DB exceeded retry limit (RetryRequest) on create_router call" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Ryan Tidwell (ryan-tidwell)15:18
tidwellr_#topic Routed Networks15:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Routed Networks (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"15:19
carl_baldwinNeed reviews for some patches.15:20
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carl_baldwinThat is the first IPAM patch.  It is now the bottom of the chain since mlavalle 's patch merged!15:21
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mlavallethanks for all the help!15:21
carl_baldwinThere are three IPAM patches.  One for segment awareness on port create, one for deferred IP allocation on port update, and one to root out a bug with ML2 that keeps fixed_ips from being returned in the response.15:21
carl_baldwinI won't link them all here since they're lined up.15:22
john-davidgecarl_baldwin: Are there any routed networks areas that could use more implementation help?15:22
carl_baldwinjohn-davidge: Yes, I'm sure there are.15:22
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carl_baldwinI was discussing with blogan the other day about DHCP.  There might be some ways to help there.15:23
carl_baldwinjohn-davidge: Have you seen the etherpad?15:23
john-davidgecarl_baldwin: I hadn't. Thanks, will take a look15:23
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carl_baldwinWe have meetings on Tuesday mornings too.15:24
mlavallejohn-davidge: blogan mentioned this past Tuesday during the meeting that he could use help with DHCP15:25
mlavallehe said the effort is going to be longer than originally expected15:25
john-davidgemlavalle: Thanks, will reach out to him15:25
carl_baldwinjohn-davidge: You might want to start by running through some of the setup documented on the etherpad.15:25
john-davidgecarl_baldwin: Will do, thanks. Missed the meeting this week due to pesky British Summer Time15:26
carl_baldwinjohn-davidge: ack.  It'll will be great to have help.15:26
mlavallejohn-davidge: here's this past Tuesday's log:
mlavalleso you can see blogan's comments15:27
carl_baldwinI'm thinking it is time to start building some bigger environments.  I'm starting to reach out to some folks trying to get some help setting up hardware.15:27
carl_baldwinHere are some other patches in flight:15:28
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carl_baldwinThe list goes on ...15:30
carl_baldwinI'll get mine rebased as soon as possible.  That's all from me.15:30
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Anything else?15:30
mlavallenope, good summary15:30
tidwellr_awesome work15:31
carl_baldwinGreat progress here!15:31
tidwellr_seems to be moving along fairly quickly15:32
tidwellr_john_davidge: those time changes are pesky, bites us here in the states too :)15:32
tidwellr_alright, if nothing else let's move on15:33
tidwellr_#topic BGP Dynamic Routing15:33
*** openstack changes topic to "BGP Dynamic Routing (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"15:33
Na_Zhu this patch need review15:33
Na_Zhuthis patch is for adding policy file in neutron-dynamic-routing15:34
tidwellr_Na_Zhu: thanks working on this15:34
Na_Zhutidwellr_: i think you still have comments on this patch15:35
tidwellr_Na_Zhu: thanks for working on this, I think it's close15:35
tidwellr_we had aimed to have the neutron dynamic-routing repository stood up by N-1, as far as I can tell this is the last hurdle we have15:35
Na_Zhutidwellr_: yes, i also think so15:35
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Na_Zhutidwellr: about the cli part, we can release together with osc transition15:36
tidwellr_the docs and functional/api/fullstack jobs can continue to be worked on15:36
tidwellr_Na_Zhu: ack15:36
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tidwellr_thanks for working that as well15:37
Na_Zhutidwellr: the cli has dependency on osc plugin, we can not do anything until the python-neutronclient osc plugin is ready15:37
Na_Zhutidwellr_: np15:37
tidwellr_we're at the point now where you can stack with neutron-dynamic-routing and have BGP in your devstack environment15:37
tidwellr_we're at the point where I think we can start working through RFE's15:39
tidwellr_carl_baldwin has some RFE's to bring up at the next driver's meeting15:39
tidwellr_so good progress here15:39
carl_baldwinThat's today.15:39
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Na_Zhutidwellr_: i think i can help about the RFEs15:40
Na_Zhutidwellr_: there are several RFEs about neutron-dynamic-routing, we can work together, right?15:40
tidwellr_Na_Zhu: yes, we're finally getting around to discussing some RFE's filed by Mickey and Steve, as well as some others15:41
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Na_Zhutidwellr_: thanks15:42
tidwellr_Na_Zhu: we'll see what gets approved and we'll start working on some things shortly15:43
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tidwellr_that's all I had15:43
Na_Zhutidwellr: ok, thanks15:43
tidwellr_#topic FWaaS15:44
*** openstack changes topic to "FWaaS (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"15:44
carl_baldwinSridarK: ping15:44
tidwellr_I wanted to leave some time for FWaaS, I saw some activity on the etherpad earlier in the meeting15:44
SridarKOn the L3 Agent extension to support services:15:44
SridarKWe still need more details, the intent is to see how closely we can follow the L2 Agent extension pattern15:45
carl_baldwinSridarK: I will read through this.15:46
SridarKif u folks can monitor this and add comments will be most helpful15:46
SridarKcarl_baldwin: thx15:46
SridarKwe want to also get more details to capture the workflow15:46
SridarKthats all from me, we will continue to iterate15:47
carl_baldwinSridarK: Thanks.15:47
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SridarKtidwellr_: thx for the airtime15:50
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tidwellr_#topic Open Discussion15:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)"15:51
john-davidgecarl_baldwin: I've been out of the loop on the midcycle discussion, how final would you say the location is at this point?15:51
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carl_baldwinjohn-davidge: It isn't for me to say.  I'd wait for the "tentative" to be removed from the wiki by someone from IBM.15:52
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carl_baldwinHopefully, they'll send an announcement to the ML.15:53
john-davidgecarl_baldwin: Ok, cool. I know we tried to reach out to Armando about hosting in San Antonio but I guess the wheels were already turning15:53
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carl_baldwinI'm hoping it will be official soon so that we can make travel arrangements.15:55
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tidwellr_carl_baldwin: international travel is always an issue both ways, I wonder if a handful of meetups would possible15:55
tidwellr_just a crazy thought15:55
tidwellr_in different locations15:55
tidwellr_alright, anything else to discuss?15:56
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tidwellr_going once....15:57
carl_baldwinNot from me15:57
tidwellr_going twice....15:57
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tidwellr_thanks everyone!15:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:58
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 26 15:58:07 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:58
openstackMinutes (text):
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etoews#startmeeting api wg16:00
openstackMeeting started Thu May 26 16:00:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is etoews. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: api wg)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'api_wg'16:00
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etoewssorry i missed the past couple of meetings16:00
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elmikono worries, we soldiered on =)16:00
etoewscdent: in the house?16:01
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elmikoeven took care of a few action items16:01
cdenti yam16:01
elmikoalthough i think i need to workflow a couple things16:01
etoews#topic previous meeting action items16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "previous meeting action items (Meeting topic: api wg)"16:01
elmikoso, i am merging the 2 we froze last time16:02
elmikoand i setup the wiki page we talked about16:02
elmikoprobably will need some tweaking, but it's a start16:02
elmikoand i'll even offer to send the inagural newsletter on monday =)16:02
* etoews reads16:03
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cdentis it worth having a "recently proposed guidelines" section, or it that inviting too much noise?16:04
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elmikoseemed like the community wanted more noise, so maybe it would be worth it16:05
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etoewsi think so16:05
elmikomaybe something like "guidelines currently under construction" or something similar?16:05
etoewslet's update the template right now16:05
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elmikodo it! =)16:05
elmikohmm, need to remove some of the wiki formatting from the template too16:07
etoewsconcurrent editing on wiki bad. do we need a temp etherpad?16:07
elmikonope, i can wait16:07
elmikounless we want to get some sort of mega-brain concurrent work session going =)16:08
etoewsi'd like to have these meetings be more work oriented16:08
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elmikoi don't necessarily have a problem with that, but i think we need more contributors16:09
cdentin this case I think we only need the one change on the template, so whereas etherpad would make a ton of sense, now, meh?16:09
etoewswho's making the change?16:10
elmikooh, lol, i thought you were!16:10
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elmikook, i'll add it16:11
etoewsnow we play. who has the semaphore?16:11
elmikook, check it out now16:13
cdentseems good, I think the main win is getting it started and evolving16:14
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elmikoyea, i just tried to shotgun blast the high points we talked about last time16:15
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elmikoi think there is room to improve the language and add content16:15
etoewsi'm all for one of the outputs of this meeting to be the sending of the email16:15
elmikook, cool16:15
etoewsbut if you want it on a different sched that's fine too16:15
elmikoi don't have a strong opinion on that one. it might be nice to send them after our meetings though as the info will be fresh in our minds16:16
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cdentIf I understand etoews correctly, he might be suggesting that we co-write it as part of our weekly doings in this hour?16:16
etoewsand easier to load balance producing the newsletter when there are several of us around to write it.16:16
etoewscdent: pretty much16:16
elmikosure, just toss the template into a pad and have at it!16:16
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etoewsmore action during meetings. less todos.16:17
cdentwhat time of day is it for you etoews, about 10 or 11?16:17
cdent(I forget where you are)16:17
etoewsi'm in austin (CST)16:18
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etoewsdo we have any API guidelines proposed for freeze?16:19
elmikonot yet ;)16:19
etoewsk. we'll remove that section for this week.16:19
elmikoi think we should just say, "None" or something to leave the emails consistent16:20
cdentyeah, looks like it is time to a) start doing some more guidelines b) start making the todos and typos into issues in launchpad  c) doing them issues16:20
cdents/None/Make one!16:20
cdentor something like that?16:20
cdent(for the under review part I mean)16:21
cdentthe only open guideliness at the moment are either controversial or lost their main supporters, should these email be something that indicates that people need to come back to them?16:22
etoewsi'm going to abandon
elmikoi think that definitely falls in line with providing more noise16:22
etoewselmiko: are you saying don't put anything under Guidelines currently under review because they're all controversial/lost main supporters?16:25
elmikono, i agree with putting controversial stuff there16:25
cdentthe opposite, yeah, people want more noise, so this is the kind of noise we should do16:25
elmikowe should let the community know about our pain points16:25
elmikohopefully someone will see us having issues and want to help =)16:25
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etoewsfeel free to jump into the etherpad and CRUD!16:26
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cdenti've just reordered to: merged->frozen->debated16:28
cdentit was frozen->merged->debated which didn't feel right16:28
cdenti'll update the wiki page16:28
elmikoack, thanks!16:28
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etoewsready to go?
elmikoawesome, that worked out well. i think so16:30
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etoewscdent: ready to go for you?16:31
cdentyeah, seems good16:31
etoewselmiko: do you want to go ahead and send it right now?16:31
elmikosure, i can do that16:31
etoewsso hawt right now16:32
elmikowe should add something to the wiki about a suggested email subject16:32
elmikousing [all][api] API working group weekly newsletter, for now16:32
elmikounless either of you has a really catchy title16:32
cdenti think that's just soooooper16:33
elmikolike "[all][api] POST {'news': 'weekly update'}" =)16:33
elmikoor POST /api-wg/news/update16:33
etoewsPOST update????16:33
elmikoright, POST /api-wg/news16:34
etoewsi like it16:34
elmikoi'm trying to think of something catchy like "whats up doc?"16:34
elmikoit's tough16:34
etoewsno no. you nailed it.16:34
cdentyeah, POST /api-wg/news is great16:34
elmikook, col16:34
elmikocool even16:34
cdentonly now ill we see the typoes16:35
cdentand typos even16:35
etoewswill even16:35
etoews#topic guidelines16:36
*** openstack changes topic to "guidelines (Meeting topic: api wg)"16:36
cdentthis is a nice step forward16:36
etoewswe should sync our freezing and merging to this meeting time too.16:37
etoewshaving a weekly meeting is so much nicer16:37
elmikoyea, seems like a natural fit16:37
cdentso all of these are pretty stale16:37
cdentthe email ought to bring in some people16:38
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cdentand we can determine which to kill, which need a new owner, etc16:38
elmikoi hope so16:38
etoewsas you know, i'm currently interested in the actions guideline
cdentare you interested in providing a new version?16:39
elmikoyea, i don't have the bandwidth to update that one16:39
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etoewscdent: i am but...16:40
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cdentone thing I think we probably need to do more of is take some of these kinds of issues to the list prior to proposing a guideline. I think the notion of proposing such general guidelines before establishing some foundation is backwards16:41
cdentthat feels anti-openstack, but as far as I'm concerned it is the openstack-major-fail-whale16:42
elmikohmm, interesting idea16:42
etoewsdidn't we try that already w.r.t. actions?16:43
cdentI think we tried to encourage discussion on the proposal, or near to it, instead of going deeper16:43
cdentalso, the actions case may not be a place where it neesd to happen, I'm just proposing the idea16:44
elmikoseems like we will be adding 1 more step to the process though, 1. start convo on ml, 2. write guideline, 3. review, 4. freeze, is thta accurate?16:44
cdentI'm not saying it should be part of the process always16:45
etoewsi see it.
cdentin fact I think it should be rare, in part because I think for many guidelines there is a right way already established, we just need to find it16:45
cdentbut for some concepts we are being a bit more pioneering. when that's the case, I think we need to discuss to make sure we're on the same ground16:46
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etoewsdid you have a new/existing guideline in mind for that cdent?16:48
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cdentno, sadly I haven't had a chance to think in terms of guidelines lately. that tweet was inspired by the "where are the boundaries of openstack, is it programming language" thread(s)16:49
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cdent(10 minutes)16:50
etoewsonce openstack invents its own programming language, that will put the whole question of languages to bed.16:50
elmikoi figured you were referencing the language discussions16:50
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cdentetoews: that's perfect16:51
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cdentany other actions we can make go today?16:52
etoewsso i *may* be able to take a stab at a tasks guideline in june. i've got a two week window in which to start it. if i miss that window, i won't be able to get to it until early july.16:52
etoewsi'm considering starting to express confidence in terms of t-shirt sizes.16:54
etoewsin this case, i'm a medium16:54
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elmikoi like that metric16:55
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etoewsanything else for today?16:56
cdentno sirs16:56
etoewsanyone else going to pycon?16:56
cdentno :(16:56
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elmikonothing here16:57
elmikoand sadly, no =(16:57
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:58
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 26 16:58:10 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:58
openstackMinutes (text):
elmikothanks etoews cdent !16:58
cdentthanks, now for din dins16:58
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docaedocourtesy ping - igormarnat_ kfox1111 olaph ddovbii kzaitsev_mb17:00
* olaph waves17:00
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docaedohello! let's see who else makes it today :)17:01
docaedoGood enough for me!17:01
docaedo#startmeeting app-catalog17:01
openstackMeeting started Thu May 26 17:01:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is docaedo. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: app-catalog)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'app_catalog'17:01
docaedo#link Agenda17:01
igormarnat_Just in case, we're out of electricity in the office, so I can drop offline any minute. Will try to switch to mobile network then17:02
docaedo#topic Glare status update17:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Glare status update (Meeting topic: app-catalog)"17:02
docaedoCan anyone give an update on glare status?17:02
docaedoigormarnat_: thanks for the heads up, hope the electricity comes back quick17:02
igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: you had news about glare in app catalog, there was some progress, right?17:03
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kzaitsev_mbWell, I've finished all the work I wanted to do with the UI side of the things17:04
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kzaitsev_mbI blieve at the summit we've agreed to fill in how we can proceed with merging, but I still haven't done that %)17:04
docaedoI have faith you'll get to it :)17:04
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igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: When do you think we'll be able to switch catalog to glare backend, what else needs to be done?17:05
kzaitsev_mbThe basic idea was that we can start merging the commits and turn glare code off by default17:05
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mfedosinso, there is a spec17:05
kzaitsev_mbnext step would be to install glare on a.o.o and turn it on17:05
mfedosinit's about Glare v1 API and general use cases17:05
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kzaitsev_mbAnd after doing so — we would need to make the API private, since it's going to change once we get to v1 API from GLARE team17:06
docaedoI think there's a bunch of testing before we turn it on17:06
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mfedosincurrent plan in glance team - to have 'core' code done by the 10th of June17:07
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docaedohave to validate we have an automated method to add/remove assets based on whats in assets.yaml because we don't have user auth yet, so only way to adjust the catalog is still going to be through assets.yaml17:07
kzaitsev_mbAnd in between those two — we still need to work on auth middleware.17:07
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mfedosinand merge it on 15th17:07
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kzaitsev_mbSo my next steps from here are to update the patches, so that glare is turned off by default. I'll make a list of those patches (an etherpad maybe) with explanation of the impact, maybe.17:08
docaedosomewhere along the way we can start working on puppetizing the installation of glare (assuming access to DB via trove)17:08
igormarnat_mfedosin: thanks for update, merge by June, 15 sounds good17:08
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: kfox1111: does that sound ok? =)17:08
docaedokzaitsev_mb: that sounds good, once we can safely merge that stuff it'll give us a safe path forward17:09
docaedoalso means it becomes a little easier to test/validate locally17:09
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mfedosinhere's the log from todays glance meeting
kzaitsev_mboh and I should definitely get my hands on the auth stuff.17:10
kzaitsev_mbmfedosin: feel free to use #link ;)17:10
igormarnat_ kzaitsev_mb docaedo folks, I'm not in context here, sorry. Is there a plan in place for auth implementation?17:10
mfedosinnikhil designated several items about Glare17:10
docaedoigormarnat_: no exact plan, only that it's a known issue17:11
docaedoigormarnat_: needs to auth people against their openstack ID, and let folks update their assets17:11
kzaitsev_mbigormarnat_: the plan is to delegate auth to ubuntu one, the same way does17:11
mfedosinI think they should clarify some things17:11
* nikhil lurks17:11
docaedoigormarnat_: and the people listed as cores for app-catalog can change status of a recently added/updated app17:12
igormarnat_docaedo: ok, but I mean - it's some functionality which needs to be implemented, do we know who'll implement this part?17:12
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docaedomy understanding based on previous conversations is that mfedosin or someone else working on glare would take the lead on the auth middleware17:13
igormarnat_ah, ok17:13
mfedosindocaedo: correct17:14
kzaitsev_mbcool =) I thought I would be the one to do the heavylifting =) Well anyways, I'll offer mfedosin my help on that =)17:15
docaedokzaitsev_mb: OK if I add an action for you like "execute plan to disable glare by default and start merging the pieces"?17:15
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: please do =)17:16
docaedo#action kzaitsev_mb to execute plan to disable glare by default and start merging those bits into app-catalog repo17:16
docaedoThanks for the glare update, I think we have a good picture on where it stands - moving on?17:16
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igormarnat_let's wait for a bit for comment from Mike17:17
igormarnat_mfedosin: so please confirm you're ready to work on this auth middleware17:17
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mfedosinso, the idea is to implement another auth middleware and use instead of current keystone middleware17:18
mfedosinI think they can already be written17:18
igormarnat_ok, this is more or less clear. Not clear to me is who's gonna be doing it if it's not done. If it's done - where is the repository with the code? :)17:18
* mfedosin is googling17:18
kraynevskzaitsev_mb: do I understand correctly, that you plan to implement some Glare integration before the official release of v1 API ? I'm just wondering about estimates, and when we can start using it?17:19
kzaitsev_mbkraynevs: yes, if the v1 gets merged before we deploy glare — well, we would just be able to switch to using it, otherwise we would probably have to do some porting work17:21
kzaitsev_mbkraynevs: but the a.o.o API based on glare would stay private until V1 is there17:22
kzaitsev_mband v1 a.o.o api wouldn't change anyway17:22
docaedoI was just going to say that - v1 API for a.o.o will not be v1 API for glare, but we're not advertising as the canonical glare example anyway17:23
kraynevskzaitsev_mb: ok17:23
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igormarnat_so this way or another kzaitsev_mb and mfedosin will figure it out with auth middleware17:24
kzaitsev_mbigormarnat_: we'll do =)17:25
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igormarnat_great, let's proceed than:)17:25
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docaedo#topic App Dev Community Discussion (Igor)17:25
*** openstack changes topic to "App Dev Community Discussion (Igor) (Meeting topic: app-catalog)"17:25
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docaedoand two email threads on the subject:17:26
igormarnat_docaedo: thank you, Chris!17:26
docaedoThere's a LOT in this message, but I'm glad Igor kicked off this conversation17:27
docaedoigormarnat_: what piece of this do you want to start discussing?17:27
igormarnat_so what do you think about the plan? Do you want to discuss it in general in some more details or just to switch to the very first item from the plan?17:27
igormarnat_I'd discuss about repositories17:27
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igormarnat_This part17:27
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igormarnat_- Introduce label openstack-apps, put repositories with source code of OpenStack Apps under it, i.e.:17:28
igormarnat_  *
igormarnat_  *
igormarnat_  *
docaedoI would say before repositories we need to work out what the testing would look like - otherwise there's not a lot of reason for the repositories to exist, or at least no reason to use those over your own github repo17:28
igormarnat_there are people coming and asking how and where to put source code of their apps, besides Murano team would also like to split the repos17:28
docaedoI'm +1 for Murano then, especially if people are already asking for it17:28
igormarnat_Well, the testing depends on project. For murano we started working on CI for apps17:29
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docaedoI haven't seen anyone ask for it from Heat side - in fact I even suggested this over a year ago and basically heat team said "no way, we already have examples!"17:29
kzaitsev_mbI'm +1 for the openstack-apps, but I'm not 100% sold on the single repository for all the murano-apps in the openstack17:29
igormarnat_final goal is to have automated pipeline which allows to automatically publish apps to the catalog17:29
igormarnat_but for now - just non-voting jobs based on third-party CI17:30
igormarnat_So yeah, getting back to repositories17:30
igormarnat_there are many apps in openstack/murano-apps which are now part of responsibility of core murano team17:30
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docaedowhos responsibility will they be in openstack-apps/murano-apps?17:31
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igormarnat_and we'd like to move existing murano-apps to somewhere else (ideally - under openstack-apps label) and to leave it up to murano team to deal with their examples, they'll figure it out17:31
igormarnat_we are ready to introduce murano-apps team:)17:31
kzaitsev_mbexactly this — it doesn't solve the problem of ownership17:31
igormarnat_murano-apps is gonna be the owner17:31
docaedowho will be the members for murano-apps?17:32
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kzaitsev_mbigormarnat_: my question is — how would it scale when you would have, say 100 apps in that repository?17:32
igormarnat_for now several core members of murano team and several new folks from our team who works on CI/CD app for murano, gerrit app, jenkins, ...17:32
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igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: the thing is that however it will scale, it will scale better than now when it's responsibility of murano team, right?17:33
kzaitsev_mbigormarnat_: why not allow a repository per-app, to allow every app developer have their own team, speed, etc?17:34
kzaitsev_mbWe should just make it easy to register this kind of teams17:34
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docaedoI think it's good to be clear at this point what this represents - it's a new repository to host murano apps (i.e. the gating/CI/CD stuff is for later, and will be dealt with separately)17:34
igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: docaedo nothing prevent us just to copy all the murano team to murano-apps team for beginning and then membership will be polished/elaborated using usual openstack approach based on their activity17:35
docaedoigormarnat_: I'm basically on board and in support of this plan17:35
docaedojust want to be really specific as we step through this, and start getting to the more complicated things later17:35
docaedokzaitsev_mb: you make a good point about separate repos -17:35
igormarnat_it's a new repository to host murano apps, right. Owner can be newly created murano-apps team, who'll consist from the very beginning from exact copy of murano team + several new members17:36
docaedokzaitsev_mb: if I create an app, I'd prefer it to live in my own github repo where users can report issues, see updates, etc.17:36
kzaitsev_mbagree with the github example17:36
igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: docaedo ah, yes, this is what I meant, sorry, folks17:36
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docaedoigormarnat_: no need to apologize :) I'm just also anticipating the parts we'll have to be really clear about with the repo request, etc., expecting some similar questions17:37
igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: docaedo well, probably I'm confused now, yep. From one side it's good to have murano-apps team who owns several repositories they work on17:37
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igormarnat_docaedo: kzaitsev_mb on the other hand repo per app is good thing to have, some apps are very complicated17:38
kzaitsev_mbI understand that it is currently super-hard to add a new repo to openstack-space, and a single repo for all the murano-apps is a workaround17:38
docaedoBTW maybe Murano team should think about this again?17:38
kzaitsev_mbbut let's at least take a look at the root problem and see if we can fix that (i.e. allow adding new repositories in a click or two)?17:38
* olaph likes the git idea17:39
igormarnat_docaedo: kzaitsev_mb I think I now understand it. We might want to copy all the existing repositories under label openstack-apps/murano-apps which is just the label, assign newly created murano-apps team as an owner for each of them (as they are owned by murano team anyways)17:39
docaedokzaitsev_mb: I don't think that adding dozens or hundreds of new repos is a thing the infra team wants to own17:39
kraynevsdocaedo: I suppose, that have one core team - murano-apps make sense on the start, because we need to give users normal review from guys with expertise in this area17:39
kraynevsand this group may have right for +2 on all repos17:40
kraynevsbut then..17:40
igormarnat_And then to add new repositories under openstack-apps/murano-apps on per project basis and discuss each time which team owns new repo17:40
kzaitsev_mbkraynevs: good point17:40
kraynevsyou are right it should be separate teams with same rules like in main Openstack community17:40
kraynevswhen we nominate new guys to core-team17:40
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: I think the git thing could be done on the client-side more or less easily =)17:40
docaedoI'm not so much in support of endless repositories, most of which will eventually be abandoned...17:40
kraynevsbut on the start we need support new comers17:40
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docaedobut that is an important question we'd need to get support from the infra team and/or TC17:41
docaedo("that" being "as many repos as anyone wants, so every app gets its own repo")17:41
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: well, github/bitbucket are more or less ok with hundreds of abandoned repositories, but those are commercial projects after all17:42
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kraynevsdocaedo: excuse me, but what do you meant by "supporting endless repositories"?17:42
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igormarnat_nothing prevent people from using their repositories if they want, but if they'll create them under openstack-apps/murano-apps, they'll be part of some community. They'll get support from it but in return they should contribute back by reviewing and writing code. Again, if someone want to create his repo outside - it's ok, but he'll not be reviewed than17:42
kraynevsI suppose, that in community nobody except core-team do not support repo.....17:42
kraynevsdocaedo: I just try to understand what kind of supporting do you mean17:43
kzaitsev_mbI think I'm ok with agreeing to have single repo as step1, but we should probably get infra folks involved, they might have some insight17:43
docaedokraynevs: I mean that every new repository comes with some administrative cost from the openstack-infra team17:43
docaedokraynevs: and this proposal is "1 repo for now, many many repos later - as many repos as we have devs or apps"17:44
igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: docaedo why not to suggest single repo/single team for beginning17:44
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igormarnat_and then we'll figure it out with infra team as well17:44
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: kraynevs: exactly, after all they "own" the metadata about the repos17:44
docaedoigormarnat_: I'm fine with one repo, but if the longer term intention is more repos under that, we need to be clear at the beginning that that's the long term expectation17:44
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igormarnat_so, guys, are you ok with requesting tc/infra team to move existing openstack/murano-apps to openstack-apps/murano-apps, create new team murano-apps and assign it as an owner of this repo?17:45
docaedoI'm +1 on that17:46
igormarnat_long term approach is to be discussed further with Infra team, tc and openstack-dev community (if anyone is interested:) )17:46
kzaitsev_mbigormarnat_: I'm not ok with moving all the apps there17:46
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igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: do your corrections than17:46
clarkbfwiw I think we don't want any new "namespaces" on the gerrit server17:47
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kzaitsev_mbigormarnat_: I'd rather have murano-apps renamed into murano-examples and transfer apps on per-app basis17:47
clarkbif it were easier to remove openstack-dev it would be gone already17:47
kzaitsev_mbi.e. there is a number of apps, that have little value really17:47
kraynevsdocaedo: oh. you talk about supporting it as it do infra team... yeah. it's pain.17:47
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igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: I don't see much difference in move all the murano-apps first and then to recreate murano-examples in Murano by Murano team, but ... I don't have strong opinion here17:47
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igormarnat_clarkb: but it would be good to separate code which constitutes core openstack services from the code which is not openstack code but is openstack applications, isn't it?17:48
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docaedokraynevs: correct - that's what I'm sensitive to, our infra team is small and overworked :)17:49
clarkbno, that namespacing has no real purpose17:49
igormarnat_clarkb: labels openstack and openstack-apps would allow to do it, but other ideas are welcome17:49
clarkbit only causes confusion and special casing in tooling and so on17:49
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igormarnat_well, than we just can move murano-apps outside of murano, w/o introducing openstack-apps label, as an option. Key thing for me is to move it outside of responsibility of core murano team17:50
docaedoit sounds like kzaitsev_mb is not entirely in support of moving all the apps out though?17:51
kzaitsev_mbigormarnat_: well, I'm ok with moving apps (and thus shifting some of the responsibility from myself and the team =)), just want to be a bit carefull here. you might be right and just moving all the apps is ok17:51
igormarnat_Here is the suggestion then: move murano-apps outside of murano, make it top-level repository, assign newly created murano-apps team an owner, ask murano team to figure out exact way they want to transfer source code from murano/murano-apps to murano-apps outside of it. Would they work?17:51
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docaedoalso sounds like we're talking about two things at the same time - 1) getting apps out of the main murano repo and 2) making a space where new murano app developers can work on stuff ..17:52
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: I just have to give it a bit of thought =) We've been wanting to clean-up some of the example apps, that have little value17:52
igormarnat_kzaitsev_mb: docaedo clarkb ?17:52
docaedoigormarnat_: I would support that if it's got buy in from murano - but in this case, really has nothing to do with me since I'm not a murano core or anything17:53
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igormarnat_docaedo: we can agree on it between ourselves as initial suggestion and then get agreement with infra team and murano team by email17:54
docaedoigormarnat_: sure - from the "clean place to work on murano apps" perspective, it makes sense to me17:54
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igormarnat_Ok, let's agree on this suggestion, I can shoot an email with it to infra team and murano afterwards17:55
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docaedo#action igormarnat_ to send an email to infra and murano teams re: moving apps in murano repo to new top level repo17:56
docaedonow it's official!17:56
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igormarnat_docaedo: thank you, sir! :)17:56
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igormarnat_docaedo: we are running out of time, let's make the first step with murano apps17:57
docaedoand we're almost out of time - but thanks igormarnat_ for bringing this up, and looking forward to carrying this conversation forward in the weeks to come17:57
docaedohah yes17:57
igormarnat_docaedo: and meanwhile hopefully heat team and other teams will say something in email17:57
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igormarnat_thanks all!17:58
docaedothat would be nice - we can talk some next week (or else on #openstack-app-catalog) about what we would need for testing17:58
docaedobecause it basically needs a stable cloud without access to admin control plane, to test any of these things17:58
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docaedoor else SLOW path, stand up all in one devstack node for the test17:58
docaedoI am out next week, but will work through agenda and stuff on the mailing list17:59
docaedothanks everyone!17:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 26 17:59:20 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:59
igormarnat_docaedo: thank you!17:59
openstackMinutes (text):
olaphdocaedo: thank you!17:59
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: ivar-lazzaro igordcard  hemanthravi: hi18:00
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: hi all18:00
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: do you expect any one else  from your team to join the meeting today?18:01
SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting networking_policy18:01
openstackMeeting started Thu May 26 18:01:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_policy'18:01
hemanthravijagadish should be joinging in a mi18:01
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: okay18:02
SumitNaiksatam#info agenda
SumitNaiksatami had the date wrong on the wiki page, just corrected it18:03
SumitNaiksatam#topic Bugs18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:03
SumitNaiksatami did not notice anything critical/high being reported18:03
ivar-lazzaroeverything works!18:03
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SumitNaiksatamthere was a bug reported by songole about the same IP being allocated to a member when the member is associated with multiple groups18:04
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SumitNaiksatamivar-lazzaro: lol!18:04
SumitNaiksatamjagadish: hi18:04
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SumitNaiksatamwe kind of analyzed what is going on, but will let songole enter the bug first18:04
ivar-lazzaroSumitNaiksatam: can a single member be associated to multiple groups?18:04
* igordcard will be back in 3 minutes18:04
SumitNaiksatamivar-lazzaro: yes18:05
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ivar-lazzaroyou mean PT?18:05
SumitNaiksatamivar-lazzaro: not PT, member18:05
SumitNaiksatamivar-lazzaro: one PT per groups18:05
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SumitNaiksatambut the member has multiple PTs18:05
SumitNaiksatamand each PT is a different group18:05
ivar-lazzaroSumitNaiksatam: oh ok, that's the UI member18:06
SumitNaiksatamivar-lazzaro: right18:06
SumitNaiksatamthe problem in this case is that the PTs belong to PTGs which belong to different L3Ps in different tenants, but they have the same ip_pool18:06
SumitNaiksatamwhich they are getting by default18:06
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SumitNaiksatamand hence it leads to this issue18:06
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SumitNaiksatamif there are no other high priority bugs to be discussed...18:07
SumitNaiksatam#topic Packaging18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Packaging (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:07
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: last week you mentioned “GBP integration into DeLorean”18:07
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rkukuraright, but I’ve got no response to my queries on the status of this18:08
SumitNaiksatamany update on that or anything else?18:08
rkukuraso no update18:08
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: okay, do we need to consider escalating at this point, or you think we have more time on this?18:08
SumitNaiksatamtbachman: hi18:08
tbachmanSumitNaiksatam: hi! :)18:09
rkukuraSumitNaiksatam: I’m not sure what’s driving the schedule for the RDO packaging, but the longer we wait, the less likely it is to ever happen18:09
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: okay, let me know if you need any help from me to push this forward, and/or we take this offline to discuss what our options are18:10
SumitNaiksatam#topic Tests18:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Tests (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:10
SumitNaiksatamjust a quick update from me18:10
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SumitNaiksatami have been trying to get the rally integration job to work for the past couple of days18:11
SumitNaiksatamour rally branch was woefully out of sync, and its taking some time to catch up with all hte changes that have happened18:11
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: there?18:11
SumitNaiksatamokay may be we will discuss NFP first18:12
SumitNaiksatam#topic NFP impl patches18:12
*** openstack changes topic to "NFP impl patches (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:12
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SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: jagadish and team thanks for updating the patches with the relevant co-authors18:12
hemanthravii think gate test should also be running now18:13
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: ooops, lets get done with NFP, and we can circle back to your patch18:13
hemanthravithere are few more impl patches, will be submitted in a day or 218:13
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: sure, wasn't looking when you asked18:13
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: the integration gate job is still broken starting from the first patch #link
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: np, thanks for your patience18:14
jagadishMost of the review comments on base configurator and reference configurator will be submitted in a day18:14
hemanthraviSumitNaiksatam: how do i get the logs to this failure?18:14
hemanthravidsvm-functional ?18:15
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: yeah, just click on the job18:15
hemanthraviwill take a look and resolve it18:16
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: i had already provided comments on what might be broken and what can probably fix it18:16
SumitNaiksatamsee my comment on May 12th18:16
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: jagadish: i believe there were plans to update this wiki page with more information about the patches: #link ?18:17
hemanthraviSumitNaiksatam: i'm behind on updating the wiki page, will do this18:17
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: okay thanks18:18
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: when you said the gate job is working, what were you referring to?18:18
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: i am referring to your earlier comment “i think gate test should also be running now” (since we did not get a chance to discuss that)18:19
hemanthravidon't have the details, but i was told one of the nfp tests ran as part of the gate. I'll confirm this tonight18:19
jagadishSumitNaiksatam: The nfp node driver has been pointed in the configuration for the gate tests to run nfp functionality tests.18:20
hemanthravito run haproxy in namesapce18:20
SumitNaiksatamjagadish: but the integration job is broken for all the patches and the issue is in the first patch in the chain itself18:21
SumitNaiksatamjagadish: also, which patch are you referring to?18:21
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hemanthraviSumitNaiksatam: will check on this tonight18:22
hemanthraviSumitNaiksatam: will check on this tonight18:23
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: okay, my understanding is that we are not replacing any of the current integration tests, we are adding new ones18:23
jagadishSumitNaiksatam: Yes. The current ones are not replaced. New ones are added.18:23
SumitNaiksatamjagadish: okay good, just wanted to confirm18:24
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SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: jagadish: at this point are there any blockers for you?18:24
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SumitNaiksatamperhaps not :-)18:25
hemanthravinot a blocker, but the gate tests had to be done without using the plugin but gbp-patch18:25
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: sorry, didnt get that?18:26
hemanthravithe gate tests don't using the devstack plugin but the earlier gbp-patch.sh18:26
hemanthraviis that correct?18:26
jagadishSumitNaiksatam: Gate tests are done using GBP patch18:26
jagadishThey don't have devstack plugin support18:26
hemanthravii think this can be addressed later, once we have the nfp gate tests passing18:27
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: jagadish: yes they dont use the devstack plugin, that is expected18:27
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: thats not a problem at all18:27
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: yeah we can address that later18:27
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: jagadish: all the devstack artifacts for the gate tests are contained here: #link
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: jagadish: i believe you are referring to the patching be done here: #link ?18:29
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jagadishSumitNaiksatam: Yes18:30
SumitNaiksatamanyone else in the team have questions for hemanthravi and jagadish on NFP patches?18:30
SumitNaiksatamjagadish: okay good18:30
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: jagadish : thanks for the update18:30
SumitNaiksatam#topic GBP QoS Support18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "GBP QoS Support (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:31
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SumitNaiksatamjust to refresh people’s memories we had merged the spec: #link
SumitNaiksatamand igordcard had proceeded to do the implementation in the feature/qos branch18:32
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: thanks for your work18:32
SumitNaiksatamanyone got a chance to review the implementation?18:32
rkukuraI started18:33
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: great, thanks18:33
SumitNaiksatami put some preliminary comments18:33
SumitNaiksatamnothing major though18:33
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SumitNaiksatamas long as we are fine the approach (which is stated in the merged spec), i think the implementation is pretty straightforward18:33
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igordcardthanks, I'll address them18:33
SumitNaiksatamso IMHO, its really the approach that we are validating there18:34
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: ivar-lazzaro: it will be helpful if you guys can take a quick look as well18:34
ivar-lazzaroSumitNaiksatam: +118:34
SumitNaiksatamivar-lazzaro: okay cool18:34
hemanthraviSumitNaiksatam: ok18:35
SumitNaiksatamhemanthravi: thanks18:35
igordcardrkukura: ivar-lazzaro hemanthravi thanks18:35
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SumitNaiksatamigordcard: at this point, my understanding is that is a functional implementation, so you are kind of “done” with your implementation for this first iteration?18:35
SumitNaiksatam*that this is a functional implementation18:36
rkukuraSumitNaiksatam: Are we not planning to merge this implementation, assuming we are all happy with it?18:37
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: do you mean if PoC 01 is the end of it?18:37
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: i agree18:37
rkukuraSumitNaiksatam: Are you agreeing that we should merge it?18:38
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: i meant to ask, if PoC 01 is complete, and/or there are any blockers?18:38
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SumitNaiksatamrkukura: if we are fine with the approack we should merge it18:38
rkukuraI agree18:38
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: but i think you are asking if we should merge it to master from the feature branch?18:38
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: oh ok, so the patch only adds support for maxrate as a first iteration18:38
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igordcardSumitNaiksatam: maybe, if it is to be merged to master instead of feature/branch, more work should be done to at least support burstrate as well18:39
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: i agree18:39
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: but still the same style, as in inner-PTG QoS only18:39
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: were you planning to add burst rate as PoC 2 patch?18:39
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: planning to add still to PoC 1 after an initial wave of review since the architecture wouldn't change but I still had to invest a bit of time to make sure both *rates would coexist peacefully18:40
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: ah okay18:40
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: I will add a note about that18:41
SumitNaiksatamso i think this is a question for the team - but in my opinion, if we are all fine with this approach, then we can merge the current patch to master, and then have igordcard post the burst rate changes directly to master18:41
SumitNaiksatamthis is of course after igordcard himself is comfortable that “both *rates would coexist peacefully”18:42
SumitNaiksatami think we are using the feature branch to validate the approach, after that i dont think the overhead of the branch is required18:42
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: yeah, but for master I'd prefer to add max and burst together in the same patch18:43
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: ah okay, so in that case we can merge this patch into the feature/qos branch (after reviews are complete) and wait for you to post the updates for burst rate18:43
igordcardSumitNaiksatam: okay18:44
SumitNaiksatamigordcard: thanks for the update and the work18:44
SumitNaiksatamany other questions for igordcard ?18:44
SumitNaiksatam#topic Open Discussion18:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:45
SumitNaiksatamanything we missed for today’s meeting?18:45
SumitNaiksatamif not, we can get 15 mins back :-)18:45
SumitNaiksatamalrighty, thanks all for joining (igordcard for staying up late ;-))18:46
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:46
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 26 18:46:40 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:46
openstackMinutes (text):
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shamail#startmeeting nonatc19:00
openstackMeeting started Thu May 26 19:00:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is shamail. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nonatc)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nonatc'19:00
shamailHi everyone19:00
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shamailhi dabukalam, MeganR, and maishsk!19:00
shamail#chair maishsk19:01
openstackCurrent chairs: maishsk shamail19:01
maishskSorry about last week - I was on a plane19:01
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* dabukalam was also on a plane19:01
shamailtoday’s agenda:19:01
shamailnp maishsk and dabukalam19:01
dabukalamdc_mattj: hi!19:01
dc_mattjsorry was lurking elsewhere19:01
shamailhi dc_mattj19:01
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shamail#topic UC Charter Progress19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "UC Charter Progress (Meeting topic: nonatc)"19:02
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shamailEdgar presented a draft charter for the User Committee earlier this week in the user-committee meeting.19:02
dc_mattjshamail, slightly better turnout than last time19:02
shamaila bit dc_mattj!19:02
shamailThe UC is still looking for feedback so please add comments in the doc as you see fit.19:03
dc_mattjlooks great19:03
shamailSpecifically related to this WG, they have included the roles/activities from our milestone-2 read-out19:04
maishskshamail: leave feedback here / or on the doc?19:04
shamailmaishsk: on the doc19:04
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shamailI agree dc_mattj, it’s coming together well.19:04
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shamailOne of the items they will revisit in the near-term future are AUC benefits/rights but they have already included how to become a consitituent which is a great starting point.19:05
shamailAny questions on this topic?  I wanted to share with everyone in case you missed it earlier in the week19:06
shamail#topic WG name change19:06
*** openstack changes topic to "WG name change (Meeting topic: nonatc)"19:06
maishsknone from me19:07
shamailOn a related note, I wanted to propose changing the WG name to “AUC Recognition WG” from “Non-ATC Recognition WG” since we have the designation identified in the charter19:07
dabukalamshamail: that would make me very happy19:07
dc_mattjshamail, +119:07
maishskI for one am really for this - at the time the only thing we had was non-ATC (which has a negative sound to it)19:07
maishskso a +1 from me19:08
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shamail#agree WG will be renamed to AUC (Active User Contributor) Recognition WG19:08
shamailIt feels good to get rid of the negative sounding name :)19:08
maishskAnd so the AUC is born !! :)19:09
maishskMazel Tov!19:09
shamail#action shamail will update wiki, eavesdrop, etc. to rename WG from Non-ATC to AUC19:09
* shamail cheers19:09
shamail#topic Review milestone-3 action item status19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Review milestone-3 action item status (Meeting topic: nonatc)"19:09
shamailThe next item is to review progress on identifying metrics (and capturing them) for various consitituency roles19:10
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shamailWe will just go in order based on the agenda19:10
* maishsk goes and hides in a corner19:10
shamailMetrics for user group organizers (shamail)19:11
maishsk(I have not followed up on any of my AI’s)19:11
dc_mattjso for user groups this is now a solved problem right ?19:11
dc_mattjsince things have moved forward with the 'official' groups ?19:11
shamailI spoke with fifieldT and he said the the user group oragnizers and contributors can not be queried via API at this point in time19:12
dabukalamright, are we doing just official groups, or official groups that have been active in the last 6 months. ISTR discussion of activity as well?19:12
shamailtherefore I will get a list from him (for this cycle) once we are ready19:12
shamaildc_mattj: I did not know that, can you please tell us more?19:12
shamailThey have defined the “official” ones now?19:13
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dabukalamthe foundation has designated a few of the 100 or so groups as official based on various metrics and goals meetups should strive to deliver on19:13
dc_mattjwhat he said ^19:13
dabukalam in that list all the groups highlighted red19:13
maishskdabukalam: how was that designation decided?19:14
dabukalamyou can also select using the filters on the left19:14
* dabukalam finds link19:14
shamailthanks dabukalam and dc_mattj19:14
shamailBased on that, we would only recognize 12 user groups?19:14
dabukalammaishsk: is the current criteria I believe19:14
dc_mattjagain what he said ^19:15
dabukalamshamail: It depends, many groups just have little niggly bits they have to fix to become official, so I expect more and more to become official this cycle now that it's been announced19:15
shamailI think for this cycle we should stay with including all groups since the criteria for official groups was just defined19:15
dc_mattjI think basically this was supposed to be driven by the ambassadors, and it's taken a while19:15
maishskshamail: so how do get to 12 users groups?19:15
shamailand then we can define it as official group in the next few cycles?19:15
dc_mattjmore and more of them will hopefully sort it out now19:16
shamailgo to, click on groups at the top, and then filter on “official groups”19:16
dabukalamshamail: I don't think that will help with encouraging usergroups to follow official process19:16
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shamailFor example, I didn’t see Manchester on there :[19:16
dabukalampart of the reason for this announcement was to try to force the community to follow official openstack guidelines rather than doing a bunch of random stuff and calling it "an openstack meetup"19:16
dabukalamshamail: it is there!19:16
dc_mattjwe are one of them19:16
dc_mattjone of the first ones19:17
shamailunder official?19:17
maishskAnd I dont see the Israel one there either19:17
shamailI must be sorting incorrectly19:17
dc_mattjtick the official box19:17
dc_mattjthen you get the list19:17
shamailOh, interesting..19:17
shamailManchester did not show up for me19:17
shamailWhen I ran the search for Europe + Official19:18
shamailthen it did19:18
shamailNow its refreshed19:18
shamailand shows up properly on the main page for me19:18
shamailI guess I will ensure that I validate the list I see with Tom for official WGs19:18
shamailmaishsk: I don’t see Israel there either19:19
maishskIt is not an official19:19
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shamailAnyway, so do we believe that now that we have criteria for official that we should start supporting official starting with this cycle?19:19
dc_mattjthere is clear guidance and process on how to do that19:19
maishskThe criteria are there - I just hope there are enough ambassadors around to cope with all the groups19:20
shamail#agree Change criteria to “official user groups”19:20
shamailOkay, next one:19:20
shamailMetrics for WG participants (MeganR)19:20
MeganRSorry, I don't have an update - will for next week.19:21
shamailOkay, thanks19:21
shamailMetrics for Ops meetup moderators (maishsk)19:21
dc_mattjdidn't we talk about using IRC stats ?19:21
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dc_mattjfor WG19:21
MeganRnot all WGs use IRC19:21
shamailWe did dc_mattj along with finding which WGs dont use IRC or how to account for them19:21
maishskno update on my AI’s - sorry19:21
shamailMeganR: You can also use as a starting point for the ones that do use IRC.19:22
shamailThanks maishsk19:22
shamailMetrics for repository commits under UC governance (dabukalam)19:22
dc_mattjOps meetup moderators is fairly easy given there aren't many of them, it's currently difficult to do this automagically but we could easily do it manually19:22
MeganRshamail: thank you!19:22
shamaildc_mattj: +119:22
maishskdc_mattj: +119:22
dc_mattjI'm in the WG for Ops Meetups and we can talk about how to make that data available19:23
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dabukalamshamail: so I think that one is relatively easy - base it off queried git commits, and decide whether one commit is enough or a certain x commits is required similar to the decision the TC made recently about ATC19:23
dc_mattjcurrently it's a spreadsheet ;)19:23
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shamailThat spreadsheet has lived on for generations of ops meetups, don’t change it!! (JK)19:23
dabukalamI can't see many people submitting typos for recognition to the uc gov repo similar to how people get ATC currently, but who knows19:24
shamaildabukalam: +1 that is reasonable19:24
maishskdabukalam: What decision was that?19:24
dc_mattjshamail, :)19:24
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shamailI think you are right on the lower volume too dabukalam… therefore we might need to consider a lower required commit count19:25
shamaillower than what ATC uses19:25
dc_mattjshamail, +119:25
dc_mattjwe want operators to contribute, and often it's far too easy to write stuff for you own env19:26
shamailAlso dabukalam, check this script out:
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dabukalammaishsk: I think a typo patch into openstack no longer gets you a free summit pass19:26
shamaildc_mattj: +119:26
maishskdabukalam: when was that decided?19:26
shamailI think the criteria is commits in two consecutive cycles will give you ATC19:27
shamailATC does not automatically qualify you for a free ticket19:27
shamailI think that is the direction19:27
maishskshamail: that I knew was coming - but when was the ATC criteria changed?19:27
dabukalammaishsk: the discussion at the board meeting was along the lines of, "we currently have 1200 active developers, but 2000 ATCs19:27
shamailmaishsk: not sure exactly when it was changed19:28
dabukalammaishsk: I fail to remember if an action was taken there and then or was deferred19:28
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shamaildabukalam: the UC repo commits will be more than typos… it will be people contributing to OSOps, submitting user stories to the Product WG, etc.19:29
dc_mattjcan I suggest we don't rathole on this too much19:29
shamailI am hopeful we will see a good count19:29
shamaildc_mattj: +119:29
dc_mattjthe criteria for AUC is different19:29
dc_mattjwe want ops to contribute code19:29
dc_mattjand since the code base is currently so small it would be hard to get away with a typo fix19:29
dc_mattjso slightly irrelevant19:29
shamailAnythign else on this one dabukalam?19:30
dc_mattjeven a tiny bash script is a precious jewel at the minute ;)19:30
dabukalamnope, relatively simple19:30
shamaildc_mattj: :]19:30
shamailnext one...19:30
shamailMetrics for summit track chairs (dabukalam)19:30
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dc_mattjooh interesting19:30
dc_mattjI missed the last meeting19:30
dc_mattjso what's the metric here dabukalam ?19:31
dabukalamso that's easy. anyone that's a track chair should be AUC - the summit before last they were listed on the track-chairs mailing list, last summit it was in an etherpad19:31
dabukalamso we need to consolidate that info and get it to be in a central location that can be grepped19:31
shamaildabukalam: I am not opposed to the criteria but should we specify all or certain tracks (not just operators only but a list)?19:31
dc_mattjthere's a track chair app, so we already have access to that info19:31
dc_mattjfrom a metric perspective19:31
dabukalamdc_mattj: ah yes, forgot about that19:32
shamaildc_mattj: +119:32
dabukalamdc_mattj: unfair, you've been a track chair before :P19:32
dc_mattjshamail, all track chairs should get this automatically, although almost all of them are probably ATC anyway19:32
shamaildabukalam and dc_mattj: The foundation also creates a mailing list for track chairs19:32
dc_mattjshamail, indeed19:32
shamailso we could also just ask them for member list for the mailing list19:32
maishskshamail -  would we limit to certain tracks19:32
maishsk*why would19:32
dabukalamI don't see why we would limit to certain tracks, anyone that's taking the time to be a track chair is contributing positively in my view19:33
shamailah ok, I was curious19:33
dc_mattjtrack chairs need to have a massively wide understanding of the commercial and technical landscape to be able to make judgements on presentations19:33
shamailthere are certain tracks that usually have more WG/users as track chairs (case studies, enterprise tracks, operators, community)19:33
dc_mattjthis is a no-brainer, and there's much smarter track chairs than I am19:33
shamailI am perfectly fine with doing all track chairs, the workload is rather insane!19:34
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shamailI just wanted to bring up the option for discussion (in case we are asked by anyone else)19:34
MeganRwill we compare our list with the ATC list and then remove those that have an ATC designation?19:34
shamailMeganR: Nope19:34
dc_mattjshamail, and not just the workload, it's also more about understanding the field, it's not a box ticking exercise19:34
shamailA person could be both AUC and ATC19:34
maishskshamail: +119:35
MeganRshamail: just what I was about to ask - thank you!19:35
shamailMeganR: np!19:35
dc_mattjMeganR, I thought it was quite nice at this Summit that people could have Ops and ATC for example19:35
shamaildc_mattj: Agreed!19:35
MeganRtotally agree!19:35
MeganRI like the all around recognition19:36
shamailSo, yeah, the possible sources of this data could be going through track chair app or mailing list membership19:36
shamailanything else on this one dabukalam?19:36
shamailMetrics for Superuser/SuperuserTV contributors (maishsk)19:36
maishskand again - no update :(19:37
shamailmaishsk: for this one, I would recommend contacting Nicole and Allison from the OpenStack Foundation19:37
dabukalamspecifically Nicole19:37
shamailAllison runs SuperuserTV19:37
shamailso both would be ideal19:37
maishskshamail: if someone would please send their email addresses over - I would be happy to follow up19:37
dabukalamshamail: ah ok19:37
shamailmaishsk: sounds good19:38
dc_mattjtbd it is a difficult one because it puts Nicole/Allison in a position of making a value judgement19:38
dc_mattjwhich kind of isn't their job19:38
shamailI had spoken with them briefly about this in Austin and it might be a list they have to provide you (so automation might not be possible)19:38
dc_mattjI did also a little bit19:38
shamaildc_mattj: good point.. We should define the criteria and ask them for those who meet it19:39
dc_mattjas I said before though, I think that's one of those things where actually folks will have likely fallen into multiple other categories before they reach this one19:39
shamailUnfortunately, there is no optimal way externally to get this data… API or even a list… on their end, they have a database19:39
dc_mattjand I suspect we'll end up removing that from the list19:39
dc_mattjin the long run19:40
dc_mattjI added to the doc that I don't believe being interviewed is the same as creating content19:40
shamailmaybe so but we probably should define criteria and get data for this round to validate the hypothesis19:40
dc_mattjand if I look back on content there I see a bunch of people who would already be recognised through other mean19:40
dc_mattjshamail, +119:41
shamailI agree though, it might be the list if similar19:41
shamailand the effort question is an interesting one too (it’s why we dropped user survey)19:41
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shamailThanks maishsk and dc_mattj19:42
shamailNext one is “Discuss "extra-AUC" (dabukalam)”19:42
shamailI think I had dropped off when we discussed this one in the meeting19:42
dabukalamright, so I have en example patch for extra-ATC, we could do it the same way19:42
shamailbut I would like to propose differing this criteria discussion fo rnow19:42
shamaildabukalam: +119:42
dc_mattjI think you mean deferring19:43
* dabukalam wondered that19:43
shamailThe reason I was asking if it is okay to differing is that milestone-4 is all about this topic19:43
dc_mattjwhich potentially has a different meaning than differing for most of us ;)19:43
shamailMilestone 4: Establish/identify review board for self-nominated members19:43
dc_mattjalthough differing is an interest new verb19:43
maishskshamail: +1 for deferring19:43
shamailEssentially, this topic will come up in milestone-419:43
shamailbecause I think we agree that we need “extra-AUC” but we would need to define a process around it (who can nominate, who reviews, etc.)19:44
dc_mattj+1 for differing which must somehow relate to diffs, but also +1 for deferrring19:44
shamaildc_mattj will not let me live down that typo!19:44
dc_mattjshamail, you also missed my extra r typo19:45
dc_mattjI'm equally guilty ;)19:45
shamailSo are you okay with this dabukalam?  We originally decided to dedicate an entire milestone to this conversation in case we have DIFFERING opinions and topics that take us down rat-holes19:45
dc_mattjjoking aside, I absolutely agree - out of all this stuff, probably that process is the one that needs a bit more definition around it19:46
dabukalamyup, agreed19:46
shamaildc_mattj: +119:46
dc_mattjshamail, liking the CAPITALISATION19:46
* dabukalam will brb, arch linux has crashed and the only thing I can do is type into this window19:46
dabukalamneed to restart19:46
shamailAlrighty, next one (last one)19:46
dc_mattj note the deliberate use of the S ;)19:46
shamailsounds good dabukalam19:46
dc_mattjgood meeting guys19:47
shamailI did take note dc_mattj19:47
shamailMetrics for active moderators on Ask OpenStack (shamail)19:47
dc_mattjsorry - folks19:47
maishskEvery single one of this WG has been a good meeting19:47
shamailSo Tom F has built an awesome script19:47
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dc_mattjAnita has been teaching me about not using 'guys' ;)19:47
shamailThis repo is our friend!19:48
maishskespecially with MeganR and carolbarrett around :)19:48
dc_mattjindeed ;)19:48
shamailThere is a script already there to look at Ask OpenStack moderator activity19:48
MeganRdidn't notice till you said something  :)19:48
shamailI don’t think we need to change much in it unless we want to increase or decrease the required karma level19:48
maishskSo I was thinking, since some of the info that we want to collect will be manual19:48
maishskand through email and spreadhsheets19:49
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dc_mattjshamail, I think this group could do with understanding how we extract the track chairs from the track chairs app - one for the UC to ask the devs ?19:49
maishskwould this WG (or anyone who that care about the subject) prefer to have that info committed to this repo?19:49
shamailRight now, he AskOpenStack requires 200 karma and active for over 6 months19:49
shamailThat’s all I have on Ask OpenStack Moderators for now… switching topics to open since we are arleady there :P19:50
shamail#topic opens19:50
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maishskit would be a semi manual process - but at least once committed - the info can be pulled out and used19:50
shamaildc_mattj: I think that is a great idea19:50
shamailif we can scrap it from a public source then we can automate it eventually19:50
shamailmaishsk: we should discuss where we compile the list… I have mixed feelings about the AUC members contact info being publicly available as a list19:51
maishskshamail: point taken +119:51
shamailThe criteria and automation tools are fine but, for example, the ATC list is not published either19:52
dabukalamit doesn't have to be contact info. It's quite common in open source projects to have a contributor list somewhere19:52
dabukalamin a git repo. I'm not suggesting that's the way to go, but it's not a bad thing to do if necessary19:52
dabukalamas long as it's just names19:52
shamaildabukalam: yep, we should figure out how ATC handles this19:52
maishskshamail: I think the ATC is published19:53
shamailI’ll be glad to talk to the foundation to figure it out19:53
shamailmaishsk: I’ll double-check and report back to our WG19:53
shamail#action shamail: determine if ATC membership information is published anywhere (and, if so, what is published about them)19:54
shamailby the way, welcome back dabukalam :)19:54
shamailThat is all we had for today!19:54
shamailThe meetings have been amazingly productive!19:54
dabukalamshamail: thanks for running this19:55
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shamailThanks for joining dabukalam!19:55
shamailHave a great day/evening19:55
maishskthanks all19:55
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openstackMeeting ended Thu May 26 19:55:56 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:55
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