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| zhangguoqing | Hi all, is this time cloudkitty meeting? | 14:01 |
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| devananda | #startmeeting ironic | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 8 17:00:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 17:00 |
| vdrok | o/ | 17:00 |
| devananda | hi folks! i'm standing in for jroll as he's had to go AFK unexpectedly | 17:00 |
| rpioso | o/ | 17:00 |
| davidlenwell | o/ | 17:00 |
| jlvillal | o/ | 17:00 |
| mat128 | o/ | 17:00 |
| milan | o/ | 17:00 |
| lucasagomes | o/ | 17:01 |
| alineb | o/ | 17:01 |
| rama_y | o/ | 17:01 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 17:01 |
| NobodyCam | o/ | 17:01 |
| jaoh | o/ | 17:01 |
| devananda | as usual, our agenda can be found here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic | 17:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 17:01 |
| devananda | today looks fairly light | 17:01 |
| devananda | #chair NobodyCam | 17:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: NobodyCam devananda | 17:01 |
| mjturek1 | o/ | 17:01 |
| rloo | o/ | 17:01 |
| devananda | #topic announcements | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:02 | |
| devananda | I believe jroll plans to cut 6.1.0 this week, pending the gate getting fixed | 17:02 |
| devananda | oops, I should info that | 17:02 |
| devananda | #info jroll plans to cut 6.1.0 release this week | 17:02 |
| Madasi | o/ | 17:02 |
| devananda | also, I see an announcement form TheJulia (thanks for putting on the wiki!) | 17:03 |
| devananda | #info The driver composition defaults call will be this Wednesday at 4PM UTC. Bridge #7777 | 17:03 |
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| vdrok | gate should be fixed soon, g-r update for the os-client-config is on review already | 17:03 |
| lucasagomes | o/ | 17:03 |
| devananda | vdrok: that's great, thanks! | 17:04 |
| devananda | lots of our netwon-critical work landed last week - let's finish polishing those with follow ups in the next few days | 17:04 |
| devananda | anyone else have announcements to share? | 17:04 |
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| devananda | ok, moving on | 17:05 |
| devananda | #topic subteam status reports | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteam status reports (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:05 | |
| mgould | o/ | 17:05 |
| devananda | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard | 17:05 |
| devananda | please take a minute or two to update your sections -- the status report starts around line 80 | 17:05 |
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| devananda | jlvillal: anything change in our gate tests (jobs promoted or removed) last week? | 17:08 |
| rloo | oh.. so there is a chance that the serial console will land in newton? i see that the -2 was removed from nova patch. | 17:08 |
| devananda | rloo: oh? I think that would be fantastic | 17:08 |
| jlvillal | devananda: Last week the python-ironicclient had functional tests added as a voting job | 17:08 |
| rloo | devananda: yeah, how did that happen? | 17:09 |
| devananda | rloo: not sure? | 17:09 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, rloo yes! jroll just pointed me to it today | 17:09 |
| jlvillal | Not sure if anyone else knows about gate changes related to us. | 17:09 |
| lucasagomes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/328157/ | 17:10 |
| rloo | well, let's review that nova patch and help get it in! ^ | 17:10 |
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| lucasagomes | rloo, ++ | 17:10 |
| rloo | any oneview folks here? i thought i saw a bunch of oneview-related patches get merged. but i don't see any status | 17:11 |
| TheJulia | thiagop: xavierr: you guys there? | 17:11 |
| thiagop | I am | 17:11 |
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| thiagop | rloo: was helping infra folks here, didn't have time to update the whiteboard | 17:12 |
| thiagop | doing it now | 17:12 |
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| * devananda is looking for jroll's nova mulitcompute patch | 17:13 | |
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| mat128 | devananda: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/348443/ | 17:14 |
| thiagop | rloo: done | 17:14 |
| rloo | thx thiagop | 17:14 |
| devananda | mat128: got it -t hanks | 17:14 |
| devananda | updates look good, thanks everyone! | 17:15 |
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| rloo | the bugs stats hasn't been updated? | 17:15 |
| devananda | dtantsur is out sick today | 17:15 |
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| devananda | going to move on, but feel free to continue updating the whiteboard | 17:17 |
| devananda | #topic discussion: API v2? | 17:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "discussion: API v2? (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:18 | |
| devananda | I didn't plan on running the meeting and also introducing the only topic on the agenda ... but here we go :) | 17:18 |
| devananda | back at the last summit, and then again at the midcycle, the topic of a possible v2 API was brought up | 17:19 |
| devananda | I took the action item of drafting a detailed "problem description" | 17:19 |
| devananda | with the goal of presenting that at the barcelona summit | 17:19 |
| devananda | I've written up many of hte points here: | 17:19 |
| devananda | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-v2-api | 17:19 |
| devananda | and would like to solicit feedback and discussion | 17:19 |
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| devananda | I'll cap this at 20 minutes during hte meeting today so there's time for open discussion too | 17:19 |
| devananda | there are 13 problems identified so far, listed in that 'pad in no particular order | 17:20 |
| * lucasagomes looks | 17:20 | |
| NobodyCam | devananda: wow awesome work | 17:20 |
| JayF | devananda: At the nova mid-cycle, it was suggested by some nova folks that instead of a true v2 API, we just add more things to v1 and cycle out old | 17:20 |
| devananda | JayF: yep | 17:20 |
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| devananda | one of the things that has stood out ot me, as I've documented these "problems" is that a lot of them appear to be things we _could_ fix incrmentally | 17:21 |
| JayF | devananda: I know that's more abuot the journey than the destination, but I'm curious if this is intended to be a "true v2" API version change or just a general document on where we want the api to evolve to | 17:21 |
| mat128 | devananda: awesome =D | 17:21 |
| devananda | JayF: this document is not intedted to be a description of where we want to end up, or how we get there | 17:21 |
| JayF | devananda: just sorta a "list of issues with v1 api" then? | 17:22 |
| devananda | merely "here are the usability / operability pain points we've seen" | 17:22 |
| devananda | yes | 17:22 |
| devananda | if we don't describe the problems we want to fix, we can't fix them | 17:22 |
| JayF | ++ | 17:22 |
| devananda | conversely, if we all agree on what the problems are, we can then have a good discusison on how to fix them | 17:22 |
| JayF | just a little curious about the wording, b/c we keep calling this a v2 api effort which sounds maybe a little heavier than what it is today :) | 17:23 |
| mat128 | JayF: API-next ;D | 17:23 |
| devananda | JayF: agreed | 17:23 |
| devananda | I'm calling it v2 because that is what we called it at the last two meetings | 17:23 |
| devananda | but I agree that it may not actually become /v2/ | 17:23 |
| devananda | it might be v1.99 ... dunno :) | 17:23 |
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| devananda | if you've faced one of the problems listed there, please add a +1. if you don't think it's a problem, please -1 and explain why. | 17:24 |
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| thiagop | mat128: indeed, it's more like #6, thanks | 17:30 |
| mat128 | :) | 17:30 |
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| devananda | I see some folks discussing on the pad - thanks! | 17:31 |
| devananda | I also want to ask, specifically, are any of the things desribed there NOT problems for someone? | 17:32 |
| mat128 | well #7 was odd for me (callback vs long-polling) | 17:32 |
| mat128 | I do not feel it as a problem, if the intent is really using ironic via curl, a callback is probably even harder | 17:33 |
| devananda | mat128: fair point | 17:33 |
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| devananda | callbacks are useful for intra-service coordination, but not for client-server | 17:33 |
| mat128 | long-polling (a la nova's '--poll') feels like the easiest way out | 17:33 |
| thiagop | I think that once we have tasks, polling becomes cheaper... | 17:33 |
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| mat128 | so if I take thiagop's proposal, nova could create a deployment task and nova would track it's progress? | 17:34 |
| mat128 | optionally having a callback on it? | 17:34 |
| mat128 | then I guess Ironic could emit notifications (like nova's instance.create.start/end/error) and it's 'just' a matter of catching those (i know, i know.. not that easy ;)) | 17:34 |
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| devananda | mat128: that would improve the nova.virt.ironic driver significantly: rather than polling ironic continuously during the deploy, it could sleep / listen for an event or callback | 17:35 |
| devananda | as Nova does with Neutron now for some port actions | 17:36 |
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| thiagop | maybe an hybrid solution? Tasks to track and notifications once the task is done, than a consumer may not need to poll the API, just listen the bus for the task... | 17:36 |
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| TheJulia | The consumer can't be expected to have access to the message bus, if the consumer in the context is an end user with an api client | 17:37 |
| devananda | TheJulia is correct | 17:37 |
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| thiagop | uhmm | 17:37 |
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| devananda | the internal rabbit message bus is not suitable for communicating with non-service clients | 17:38 |
| thiagop | might work for nova, but not for other purposes (that may continue polling...) | 17:38 |
| mat128 | devananda: agreed, but I fear this turns into a "if you're not a service, there are some parts of Ironic you cannot use" | 17:38 |
| thiagop | or we can come up with another solution :) | 17:38 |
| devananda | mat128: indeed... | 17:39 |
| JayF | mat128: Sure, but are you going to configure your Ironic APIs to allow callbacks to arbitrary URLs? I certainly won't... | 17:39 |
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| mat128 | JayF: nope | 17:39 |
| JayF | That's my concern, right? I don't want to have internal details of my ironic-apis leaking out | 17:40 |
| mat128 | JayF: even if I wanted, ir-api won't be able to reach anyone | 17:40 |
| JayF | exactly | 17:40 |
| mat128 | other than bus/db for ir-cond communications | 17:40 |
| mat128 | but if Ironic starts emitting notifications like node.deploy.end | 17:40 |
| mat128 | as a regular API user I can't "catch" those | 17:40 |
| JayF | Yep, exactly. And I would not want my individual apis spitting out api calls back to callers | 17:40 |
| thiagop | JayF: might not be that hard, what's harder is assuming/expect/demand that a consumer service will have that sort of "arbitrary endpoint" to be notified | 17:40 |
| JayF | and giving up their internal ip addresses, etc | 17:40 |
| JayF | mat128: I see that as a /good thing/ | 17:41 |
| devananda | thank you all for the feedback. I'd like to cap this discussion in a couple minutes, though I'm happy to continue after the meeting / in the 'pad | 17:41 |
| devananda | if you'd like to have a longer focused discussion on this before the summit, please add your name to the list at the top of the pad | 17:41 |
| mat128 | JayF: thats fine, but if tomorrow we remove the node field for deployment status, the *only* way to get it becomes the notification | 17:42 |
| mat128 | devananda: ok sorry :) | 17:42 |
| devananda | I will collate all this into a spec about two weeks before the summit | 17:42 |
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| devananda | mat128: no appology needed :) | 17:42 |
| devananda | I'm just making sure we have time for open discusssion | 17:42 |
| JayF | mat128: that's why we shouldn't do that, lol | 17:42 |
| devananda | #topic open discussion | 17:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic)" | 17:43 | |
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| devananda | I, for one, am really looking forward to the remainder of this cycle. we've got so many great features almost done right now :) | 17:45 |
| thiagop | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/340596/ 3-line patch with some tests that will make our CI happier! If someone can take a look (without rush now) :) | 17:45 |
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| chopmann | hi everyone, we would like to get some feedback https://review.openstack.org/#/c/350570/ :-) Besides the spelling and wakeonlan, how can we improve the ref ? | 17:46 |
| JayF | thiagop: that's failing oneview ci right now though | 17:46 |
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| JayF | As I emailed the list about last week; I'm going to abandon any ironic-specs with no updates in the last six months. I'll do that immediately after this meeting so if you have an objection speak now :) | 17:46 |
| thiagop | JayF: that failure was due to our gitlab problems last week | 17:47 |
| devananda | chopmann: interesting | 17:47 |
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| thiagop | JayF: but I can recheck | 17:47 |
| JayF | thiagop: I'd love to see that passing before voting +2 on a patch affecting that driver | 17:47 |
| mat128 | chopmann: so you turned that idea into a spec, good :) | 17:47 |
| chopmann | we proposed the ref some time back, we were working on a poc | 17:47 |
| JayF | Question somewhat related to metrics: Do we have a definiative list and/or timeline for when drivers being dropped out of tree this cycle are being dropped/ | 17:47 |
| chopmann | and understanding more of openstack :p | 17:47 |
| devananda | chopmann: describing the changes would be good | 17:47 |
| JayF | Mainly I'm trying to avoid writing metrics for drivers that are going to fall out of tree soon | 17:48 |
| devananda | chopmann: the first things that come to my mind are, beyond a new boot and deploy driver, and a new ramdisk, are there other changes you'd need? | 17:48 |
| devananda | JayF: I believe jroll plans on sendin email about dropping drivers early this week | 17:48 |
| devananda | but I do not recall the timeline to actually remove them, sorry | 17:48 |
| JayF | Along those lines, we do need to change our ipmitool jobs to voting | 17:49 |
| JayF | is anyone working on stabilizing them? Or has anyone looked at metrics around passing % of them lately? | 17:49 |
| chopmann | the thing with the ramdisk is: "black-box" switches or embedded devices rarely have a ramdisk | 17:49 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, I have to look at that yes | 17:49 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: IMO we probably should just make them voting now, at least for ironic projects, and feel the pain if they fail | 17:50 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: otherwise it'll be deprioritized naturally | 17:50 |
| devananda | chopmann: you could no-op the boot phase, and hvae the deploy phase write the new firmware | 17:50 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: and use that pain to improve the jobs before pushing them to other projects (like nova) | 17:50 |
| mat128 | ^ exactly | 17:50 |
| thiagop | #info I'm doing a patch to remove our (out of date) tests from tempest for good | 17:50 |
| devananda | JayF: +1 to making it voting so we need to fix it | 17:50 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, yeah that would def help | 17:50 |
| devananda | JayF: also +1 to doing tat before we get too close to FF / end of cycle | 17:51 |
| mat128 | chopmann: I commented in your review, but I'd like to know more about the devices that this driver will support, along with new tests required | 17:51 |
| thiagop | I was unable to work on it last week, but plan to resume it later today | 17:51 |
| JayF | We should leave ssh jobs running until after we have the nova tests moved off them, right? | 17:51 |
| lucasagomes | btw, someone knows where's is jarrod (from pyghmi) ? | 17:51 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: honestly, I have a little concern about virtualbmc being a dep of our tests with a project with a SPOF as a major piece :x | 17:52 |
| devananda | chopmann: another thing to point out - for in-tree drivers, we will require either the ability to do CI testing in a virtualized environment using entirely open source components, or third-party CI jobs | 17:52 |
| chopmann | devananda: no-op would be fine i guess. "Power Control" neeeds to be optional too (no-op) or with a second device ("remote power") | 17:52 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: because of you having to ask questions like that. | 17:52 |
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| lucasagomes | thiagop, code-wise it looks good, but that said, it would be good to have a bug ticket for that problem as well :-) | 17:52 |
| chopmann | devananda: got that. :-) | 17:52 |
| devananda | JayF: lucasagomes: does anyone else understand virtualbmc well enough to fix/update it without jarrod? | 17:53 |
| devananda | chopmann: awesome | 17:53 |
| chopmann | we'll do our best for it to be open-testable | 17:53 |
| thiagop | lucasagomes: will do | 17:53 |
| mat128 | chopmann: it's (now) a requirement for an in-tree driver | 17:53 |
| mat128 | s/an/any/ | 17:53 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, yeah it's concerning... I was thinking whether we could take ownwership of pyghmi as part of the ironic project really | 17:53 |
| devananda | chopmann: perhaps you could describe, in the spec, what the provisioning workflow will look like for this class of hardware | 17:53 |
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| lucasagomes | devananda, virtualbmc is rather simple, the bulk of the logic converting the IPMI commands lives in pyghmi | 17:54 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: I think devananda's question is telling: do we have enough expertise in that realm to manage it? | 17:54 |
| JayF | lucasagomes: I certainly don't :/ | 17:54 |
| mat128 | chopmann: I can probably help you as we have shared mid-term goals | 17:54 |
| devananda | lucasagomes: ah. thx for the clarification - I mean the whole stack that we need to do that testing | 17:54 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, I don't either. I've fixed a couple of things in pyghmi but it's not near enough to say I'm an expert on it | 17:54 |
| chopmann | mat128: what are those goals? :-) | 17:55 |
| mat128 | lucasagomes, devananda: what's the current problem with pyghmi? | 17:55 |
| mat128 | chopmann: appliance provisioning | 17:55 |
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| mat128 | blackbox mostly | 17:55 |
| chopmann | ahh :-) | 17:55 |
| devananda | mat128: its development is not managed by anyone on the ironic core team | 17:55 |
| lucasagomes | mat128, there's only one maintainer at the moment | 17:56 |
| mat128 | ah | 17:56 |
| devananda | though I do have commit rights on the project, I don't claim to understand it enough to meaningfully review / contribute to it | 17:56 |
| lucasagomes | and I'm not sure anybody else has a good understanding of that code base | 17:56 |
| devananda | it's really just jarrod right now | 17:56 |
| devananda | so making that a required component in ironic's gate is raising some concerns | 17:56 |
| chopmann | mat128: i'll get back to you later this week. Once we had our team meeting :-) | 17:57 |
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| mat128 | one guy on my team and I can handle the IPMI stuff if all you need is more ironic presence in there, but not sure that help getting ir-core people onboard | 17:57 |
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| mat128 | s/help/helps | 17:58 |
| JayF | mat128: at least from my perspective, the concern is SPOF, not that "all of us can't do it" | 17:58 |
| mat128 | JayF: yeah | 17:58 |
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| devananda | mat128: thanks. that would make me feel more comfortable | 17:58 |
| JayF | if we have 2/3 regular contributors, in addition to jarrod, working on it, most of my concerns are alliviated | 17:58 |
| * JayF doesn't mention the self-merge that happens constantly in that project :/ | 17:58 | |
| mat128 | JayF: don't tell me about it :( | 17:58 |
| mat128 | we call it insta-merge here | 17:58 |
| mat128 | but thanks to lucasagomes we have the virtualbmc gate running | 17:59 |
| lucasagomes | JayF, I would like to add console support for virtualbmc, that will require changes in pyghmi | 17:59 |
| TheJulia | 1 minute | 17:59 |
| lucasagomes | I probably will understand it more once I start playing with it | 17:59 |
| mat128 | lucasagomes: I think we can submit those | 17:59 |
| mat128 | (patches) | 17:59 |
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| devananda | lucasagomes, mat128: let's start a discussion with jarrod about adding more cores to that project | 18:00 |
| lucasagomes | devananda, ++ | 18:00 |
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| devananda | we're at time - thanks everyone! | 18:00 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops_guide)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 8 18:00:56 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-08-08-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-08-08-17.00.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic/2016/ironic.2016-08-08-17.00.log.html | 18:01 |
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