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| MARIAVICTORIA-MM | hola | 13:07 |
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| tdurakov | #startmeeting Nova Live Migration | 13:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 13:59:59 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tdurakov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Nova Live Migration)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_live_migration' | 14:00 |
| tdurakov | hi everyone | 14:00 |
| * kashyap waves | 14:00 | |
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| tdurakov | just wait a minute, so everyone joins | 14:01 |
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| tdurakov | agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaLiveMigration | 14:01 |
| mriedem | o/ | 14:02 |
| davidgiluk | o/ | 14:02 |
| tdurakov | so, let's start | 14:02 |
| tdurakov | #topic Libvirt image backend | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Libvirt image backend (Meeting topic: Nova Live Migration)" | 14:02 | |
| tdurakov | any updates? | 14:02 |
| tdurakov | I've reviewed several patches on that, it looks like chain reduces | 14:03 |
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| woodster_ | o/ | 14:03 |
| tdurakov | I'd expect almost the same for the next topic... | 14:04 |
| tdurakov | #topic Storage pools | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Storage pools (Meeting topic: Nova Live Migration)" | 14:04 | |
| tdurakov | any updates on that? | 14:05 |
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| tdurakov | okay, let's move then to CI one... | 14:05 |
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| tdurakov | #topic CI | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: Nova Live Migration)" | 14:06 | |
| tdurakov | first | 14:06 |
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| tdurakov | wanted to mention, markus_z is working on the serial consoles for live-migration | 14:06 |
| tdurakov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347471/ | 14:06 |
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| tdurakov | so, it's improve coverage for that | 14:07 |
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| tdurakov | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1524898 - this one is still hanged... | 14:08 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1524898 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Volume based live migration aborted unexpectedly" [High,Confirmed] | 14:08 |
| tdurakov | mriedem: anything on that^ | 14:08 |
| mriedem | nope | 14:08 |
| mriedem | we had talked about skipping it | 14:08 |
| mriedem | last week | 14:08 |
| mriedem | at least in the multinode job | 14:09 |
| mriedem | to see if that stabilizes that job | 14:09 |
| tdurakov | mriedem: ok, I'll submit patch today for that | 14:09 |
| mriedem | ok | 14:09 |
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| tdurakov | there is also potential issue with nfs https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1535232 | 14:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1535232 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "live-migration ci failure on nfs shared storage" [Medium,Confirmed] | 14:10 |
| tdurakov | I expected it will work properly on xenial, but looks like we have it on xenial either | 14:10 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: Is that a new bug/ | 14:11 |
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| * kashyap clicks | 14:11 | |
| tdurakov | kashyap: it's not a new, but it turns out to be valid for xenial too | 14:11 |
| kashyap | Duh, no, I even seem to have commented on it, a bit old (5 months old) | 14:11 |
| tdurakov | yes | 14:12 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: Currently we seem to be stuck at understanding | 14:12 |
| kashyap | Why block I/O errors would cause live mig to abort | 14:12 |
| kashyap | davidgiluk: Later, do you have time to take a qiuck look at? - https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1535232/comments/6 | 14:13 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1535232 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "live-migration ci failure on nfs shared storage" [Medium,Confirmed] | 14:13 |
| tdurakov | kashyap: looks like another underlying issue | 14:13 |
| * davidgiluk looks | 14:13 | |
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| kashyap | davidgiluk: The hint is at the end of the comment. | 14:14 |
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| davidgiluk | kashyap: The IO errors are interesting, but that suggests it's somethign related to the storage again | 14:16 |
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| kashyap | tdurakov: Is it reproducible for you locally? (I don't have an NFS env on my local env, should set one up.) | 14:16 |
| tdurakov | kashyap: same | 14:16 |
| kashyap | davidgiluk: Ah, you mean the host storage env? | 14:16 |
| tdurakov | I haven't managed to reproduce it | 14:16 |
| kashyap | Hmm, I have no clue what the underlying storage setup is like | 14:16 |
| davidgiluk | kashyap: Yes | 14:17 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: Incidentally, I'm doing a drive-mirror+NBD storage migration test with QEMU itself, I'll keep an eye to see if I can trigger this | 14:17 |
| tdurakov | kashyap: ok, thanks | 14:17 |
| davidgiluk | kashyap: I'd guess at NFS permissions | 14:17 |
| kashyap | (I'll test it w/ libvirt APIs, too, which is more useful in Nova's case.) | 14:17 |
| kashyap | davidgiluk: Yeah, without 'sosreport'-style logs, can't be certain that they're NFS permissions, can we...? | 14:18 |
| davidgiluk | kashyap: But also we need to see libvirt source logs to know why it decided to shut it down | 14:18 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: Do you have a handy link for the latest hits for this failure? | 14:19 |
| tdurakov | davidgiluk: the strange thing here that there are tests passed on that, during one run | 14:19 |
| tdurakov | kashyap: http://logs.openstack.org/66/329466/4/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-multinode-live-migration/586c6be/ | 14:19 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: Hmm, the failure is not deterministic? | 14:20 |
| tdurakov | kashyap: looks so | 14:20 |
| davidgiluk | tdurakov: Deterministic failures would be too easy | 14:21 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: 'subnode-2' is the destiniation, isn't it? | 14:21 |
| tdurakov | no | 14:21 |
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| kashyap | Ah, it's the source? | 14:21 |
| tdurakov | subnode-2 is just compute only | 14:21 |
| tdurakov | in that case it's source | 14:21 |
| davidgiluk | tdurakov: I regularly do NFS qemu only migrations - so it normally works at that level | 14:21 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: Okay, I got confused because, for some instances on 'subnode-2', I see the QEMU command-line parameter '-incoming', for some not | 14:22 |
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| kashyap | E.g. this (instance-00000009) has the "-incoming defer" (which means, it's the destination) - http://logs.openstack.org/66/329466/4/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-multinode-live-migration/586c6be/logs/subnode-2/libvirt/qemu/instance-00000009.txt.gz | 14:22 |
| kashyap | davidgiluk: You don't test drive-mirror + NBD, do you? I presume you still do: 'migrate -b'? | 14:23 |
| kashyap | Or 'migrate tcp:localhost:4444' | 14:23 |
| davidgiluk | kashyap: No, I rearely do migrate -b either, I just use migrate with NFS shared storage most of the time | 14:23 |
| tdurakov | I'll check one thing, whether it's always fails on subnode, or there is no correlation | 14:24 |
| kashyap | davidgiluk: That's the source libvirt daemon log - logs.openstack.org/66/329466/4/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-multinode-live-migration/586c6be/logs/subnode-2/libvirt/libvirtd.txt.gz | 14:24 |
| tdurakov | my understanding for that was, that things are unrelated... | 14:24 |
| tdurakov | http://logs.openstack.org/66/329466/4/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-multinode-live-migration/586c6be/logs/subnode-2/libvirt/libvirtd.txt.gz#_2016-08-03_00_45_27_923 | 14:25 |
| kashyap | davidgiluk: Oh, you seem to sound right... | 14:25 |
| tdurakov | kashyap, davidgiluk ^ | 14:25 |
| kashyap | 2016-08-03 00:45:21.456+0000: 18816: info : qemuMonitorIOProcess:423 : QEMU_MONITOR_IO_PROCESS: mon=0x7f7008012390 buf={"timestamp": {"seconds": 1470185121, "microseconds": 456577}, "event": "BLOCK_IO_ERROR", "data": {"device": "drive-virtio-disk0", "nospace": false, "reason": "Permission denied", "operation": "write", "action": "report"}} | 14:25 |
| kashyap | davidgiluk: "Permission denied" | 14:25 |
| davidgiluk | kashyap: Yeh that looks like a simple perm problem on the NFS | 14:25 |
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| kashyap | davidgiluk: Also, checking out the URL from tdurakov w/ the "load of migration failed: Input/output error" | 14:26 |
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| tdurakov | davidgiluk, about perm issue, http://logs.openstack.org/66/329466/4/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-multinode-live-migration/586c6be/console.html.gz#_2016-08-03_00_45_50_882922 - there are several tests that passes | 14:26 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: We can move this discussion out of the meeting; maybe you have other issues to discuss. | 14:26 |
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| tdurakov | I'd spend 5 more minutes on that | 14:27 |
| kashyap | Yeah, sure | 14:27 |
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| kashyap | tdurakov: Hmm, so this succeeds 'test_live_block_migration_paused' | 14:27 |
| tdurakov | kashyap: yes | 14:27 |
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| tdurakov | so if it's perm issue, I'd expect to see all tests to fail, right? | 14:28 |
| tdurakov | well, let's take a timeout for that, so everyone interested could grep through the code, and get back for that later | 14:29 |
| davidgiluk | tdurakov: I wonder if the one that is passing is actually NFS shared storage; it's name is live_block_migration - so is it actually using NFS shared? | 14:30 |
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| tdurakov | davidgiluk: it's nfs | 14:30 |
| davidgiluk | ok | 14:30 |
| tdurakov | just bad tempest naming... | 14:30 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: When the storage is shared, what is the point of doing a *block* migration? | 14:31 |
| tdurakov | it's not block migration | 14:31 |
| kashyap | Ah, bad tempest test name you say above | 14:31 |
| tdurakov | right | 14:31 |
| tdurakov | another ci thing to mention | 14:31 |
| tdurakov | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1592015 | 14:31 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1592015 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "libvirt: cleanup of a volume backed instance resize leaves behind the instance directory" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Lee Yarwood (lyarwood) | 14:31 |
| tdurakov | I'm going to add tempest test that do cold migration, and then live-migration after that | 14:32 |
| tdurakov | once the bug is fixed | 14:33 |
| tdurakov | mriedem1, thoughts on that^ | 14:33 |
| davidgiluk | tdurakov: Do those systems use apparmor or anything like that? I know there's a couple of selinux tricks to get NFS working, but I guess it's not using that | 14:35 |
| tdurakov | davidgiluk: does ubuntu use apparmor? | 14:35 |
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| davidgiluk | tdurakov: It does, I don't know if it's used in this case | 14:35 |
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| tdurakov | I mean by default | 14:36 |
| mriedem | tdurakov: the more tests the better | 14:36 |
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| tdurakov | ok let's move on then | 14:37 |
| tdurakov | pkoniszewski: added http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/100657.html this thread to agenda | 14:38 |
| tdurakov | so, the point is to not using tunneled for live-migration by default | 14:38 |
| tdurakov | so, I support that idea | 14:39 |
| tdurakov | if you folks, missed the thread fell free to respond on that | 14:40 |
| tdurakov | also there is a patch on review already https://review.openstack.org/#/c/350480/ | 14:40 |
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| tdurakov | #topic: Open discussion | 14:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": Open discussion (Meeting topic: Nova Live Migration)" | 14:41 | |
| kashyap | tdurakov: I've read the thread, and agree with danpb's comment there | 14:41 |
| tdurakov | kashyap: ok | 14:41 |
| kashyap | tdurakov: And, yours | 14:41 |
| kashyap | You're also "thumbs up" for default=False, for good reasons. | 14:42 |
| tdurakov | cool, review the patch then, thanks:) | 14:42 |
| kashyap | Yeah, looking | 14:42 |
| tdurakov | anything else to discuss on live-migration? | 14:43 |
| kashyap | Nothing from me as of now. | 14:43 |
| tdurakov | ok, thank you for comming, It was kind of sub-sub-team meeting:) | 14:44 |
| tdurakov | #endmeeting | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops_guide)" | 14:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 14:45:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_live_migration/2016/nova_live_migration.2016-08-09-13.59.html | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_live_migration/2016/nova_live_migration.2016-08-09-13.59.txt | 14:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_live_migration/2016/nova_live_migration.2016-08-09-13.59.log.html | 14:45 |
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| mriedem | sigmavirus: you want to run it? | 15:00 |
| sigmavirus | mriedem: not particularly. I'm in another (video) meeting but if you'd rather I ran it, I could | 15:01 |
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| mriedem | heh i'm in another meeting too | 15:01 |
| mriedem | tonyb: you around? | 15:01 |
| sigmavirus | I can start the meeting at least | 15:01 |
| mriedem | 1am so probably not | 15:01 |
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| mriedem | #startmeeting stable | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 15:02:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mriedem. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: stable)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'stable' | 15:02 |
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| sigmavirus | Heh | 15:02 |
| mriedem | the agenda wiki is woefully out of date | 15:02 |
| mriedem | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stable-tracker is probably stale | 15:02 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 15:02 |
| sigmavirus | The agenda hasn't been updated so I'm guessing there's not much to chat about? | 15:02 |
| sigmavirus | gah, mriedem beat me to it | 15:03 |
| mriedem | i'm not aware of any blocking stable branch issues | 15:03 |
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| mriedem | i have a patch up for nova stable/mitaka 13.1.1 | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | o/ | 15:04 |
| mriedem | but need to update it for the latest hash | 15:04 |
| mriedem | i honestly haven't done a ton of cross-project stable maint team work the last few months | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | would be cool to see new oslo.db for neutron grenade job stability: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352370/ | 15:04 |
| mriedem | ihrachys: tonyb has a +1 on that but looks like you need a +1 from harlowja | 15:05 |
| mriedem | or the oslo release liaison | 15:05 |
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| mriedem | so, | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | right, maybe tonyb will get to it with his + | 15:06 |
| mriedem | tonyb is running for requirements PTL | 15:06 |
| mriedem | and i think by default would remain stable PTL for ocata unless someone else wants to run for that, but we don't have those elections yet | 15:07 |
| mriedem | just fyi | 15:07 |
| mriedem | the only other thing probably worth bringing up is this thread on cinder stable poliyc | 15:07 |
| mriedem | *policy | 15:07 |
| mriedem | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/101028.html | 15:07 |
| mriedem | #link cinder stable drivers branch http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/101028.html | 15:07 |
| mriedem | ihrachys has already spoken up on that saying everything i would have said :) | 15:07 |
| mriedem | basically they want to keep stable branches open for backporting volume driver bug fixes, security related or not | 15:08 |
| mriedem | and only run unit tests on them | 15:08 |
| mriedem | which the stable team has pushed back on (at least ihrachys and mtreinish) | 15:08 |
| mriedem | it's really a rehash of the session we had in austin on keeping kilo alive for longer | 15:08 |
| mriedem | IMO, if they do this, cinder loses the stable:follows-policy tag | 15:09 |
| mtreinish | mriedem: I agree | 15:09 |
| mriedem | anyway, just fyi, i don't really have anything else ot add | 15:09 |
| mriedem | shall we end the meeting? | 15:10 |
| mriedem | anyone else have anythign to bring up? | 15:10 |
| ihrachys | yea | 15:10 |
| ihrachys | let's do | 15:10 |
| mriedem | ok, ttyl | 15:10 |
| mriedem | #endmeeting | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops_guide)" | 15:10 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 15:10:57 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:10 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-08-09-15.02.html | 15:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-08-09-15.02.txt | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | ciao! | 15:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-08-09-15.02.log.html | 15:11 |
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| jroll | #startmeeting ironic-v2-api | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 18:00:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jroll. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic-v2-api)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic_v2_api' | 18:00 |
| jroll | who's around? devananda ? | 18:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 18:00 |
| rpioso | \o | 18:01 |
| jroll | ohai cdent ! | 18:01 |
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| mat128 | o/ | 18:01 |
| cdent | ahoy hoy | 18:01 |
| * jroll waits a couple minutes | 18:01 | |
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| cdent | since I've missed the other meetings I went through the etherpad@ https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-v2-api and added some (brief) comments | 18:02 |
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| jroll | yeah, I saw those, thank you | 18:03 |
| jroll | okay let's get into it | 18:03 |
| jroll | #topic discussion | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "discussion (Meeting topic: ironic-v2-api)" | 18:03 | |
| jroll | so as cdent mentioned, etherpad is here: | 18:03 |
| jroll | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-v2-api | 18:03 |
| jroll | a couple things I've noticed | 18:04 |
| jroll | 1) seems like we can do this all incrementally on v1 | 18:04 |
| jroll | 2) we agree on most/all of the things | 18:04 |
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| cdent | yeah, I kinda wondered "where's the v2 part?" | 18:04 |
| jroll | :) | 18:04 |
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| jroll | I made the meeting thing, the pad, etc before we started thinking about that | 18:05 |
| mat128 | that's actually good news, IMO :) | 18:05 |
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| mat128 | this v2 effort can be turned into an "adressing v1 problems" | 18:05 |
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| jroll | that bit does make me want to spin up a cross-project session on "how do projects bump the minimum" in barcelona | 18:05 |
| jroll | because we'll need to do that eventually, given the goal is to kill some cruft and bad APIs | 18:05 |
| rloo | jroll: ++ for crossproject | 18:06 |
| * jroll still has a todo to kick off a ML thread about that | 18:06 | |
| cdent | there's quite a bit of that buried in alaski's microversions thread | 18:06 |
| cdent | (not solutions, same concern) | 18:07 |
| mat128 | jroll: by "bump the minimum", do you mean moving projects that use us to newer api versions? | 18:07 |
| jroll | cdent: yeah | 18:07 |
| jroll | mat128: making the minimum usable version higher, while breaking users as little as possible | 18:07 |
| jroll | and keep in mind not everyone uses ironicclient, I'm thinking of the random bash/python/node scripts that were written two years ago and are in prod at some little deployment we've never heard of | 18:08 |
| jroll | some people don't even know about microversions! | 18:08 |
| cdent | and why would they, they're a local invention | 18:08 |
| mat128 | on that topic, I know we have our own php client, pinned to some old microversion | 18:08 |
| jroll | cdent: I still just want to call them versions | 18:08 |
| jroll | and get rid of the 1. (or 2. in nova) | 18:09 |
| mat128 | 1.24 or 24 is just the same, isn't it? | 18:09 |
| jroll | assuming we never have a 2.0, yes :) | 18:09 |
| cdent | pretty much how it has turned out, yea | 18:09 |
| mat128 | we could decide in next cycle that minimum is 1.xx and anything less gets a deprecation warning | 18:09 |
| rloo | but i don't think we can assume that we will never have a 2.0 | 18:09 |
| jroll | mat128: well that's the hard bit, right? where do you put that warning such that a curl user always sees it | 18:10 |
| jroll | which is the c-p part to solve, we should all do that the same | 18:10 |
| mat128 | given how we have never defined how the deprecation warning will appear, there's no easy answer | 18:10 |
| mat128 | I *think* communicating it via release notes, along with warning in ir-api logs is sufficient | 18:10 |
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| mat128 | and give 1 release before you delete it completely | 18:11 |
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| mat128 | (or 1 cycle, follow openstack guideline here) | 18:11 |
| jroll | I'd disagree, someone with a working client likely won't read the release notes and likely won't have log access | 18:11 |
| jroll | anyway, I plan to push on how to do that in a cross-project context, while we work inside ironic on fixing things | 18:11 |
| mat128 | jroll: the only way to notify that person is to break that contract | 18:11 |
| rloo | mat128: so what you are suggesting, is what the crossproject discussion is about. whatever process is decided, ought to be similar across projects if the projects opt into it | 18:11 |
| mat128 | unless you think putting a header in the response | 18:12 |
| cdent | jroll you're probably going to want to advertise the c-p session pretty heavy as a lot of people care but probably aren't paying close attention | 18:12 |
| mat128 | rloo: are we really the first project to deprecate stuff in our api? | 18:12 |
| jroll | mat128: yep | 18:12 |
| rloo | mat128: dunno. | 18:12 |
| jroll | cdent: yep. | 18:12 |
| cdent | mat128: nova is having the same problem with deprecation of nova-net right now | 18:12 |
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| cdent | and how to "signal" that (which I think is a horrible term) | 18:12 |
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| mat128 | I remember seeing keystone deprecation warnings somewhere | 18:13 |
| mat128 | maybe in their CLI? | 18:13 |
| jroll | right, that's for v2 -> v3 | 18:13 |
| jroll | and they've been working on that for years | 18:13 |
| mat128 | but it could be the same for 14 -> 15 | 18:13 |
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| jroll | and there's still a cycle or two left to go before dropping it | 18:13 |
| mat128 | hmm | 18:13 |
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| jroll | I don't want to shout for years that we're dropping some inconsequential version :) | 18:14 |
| mat128 | ok so given the current state of things | 18:14 |
| cdent | precedence and precedents are a pita | 18:14 |
| jroll | heh | 18:14 |
| mat128 | a) we are not alone in this situation, b) there's no precedent of a project succeeding in deprecating a part of their API, c) microversions don't help because you can't drop earlier versions | 18:14 |
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| mat128 | I think a cross project effort is worth it then | 18:14 |
| mat128 | and whatever we choose there should apply to all of us | 18:15 |
| jroll | yep :) | 18:15 |
| mat128 | (no, I'm not opening that 'following guidelines' debate) | 18:15 |
| mat128 | ;) | 18:15 |
| mat128 | so | 18:15 |
| mat128 | can we (this 'v2' taskforce) | 18:15 |
| mat128 | focus on improving v1 without deprecating/killing anything old we have? | 18:16 |
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| mat128 | given how that part is "blocked" by the c-p effort? | 18:16 |
| jroll | yeah, I think we can | 18:16 |
| jroll | the earlier we have the higher versions in a better place, the earlier we can kill the lower | 18:16 |
| mat128 | yup | 18:16 |
| jroll | let's work to improve 1.latest inside ironic, while we work cross-project to get rid of 1.1 | 18:16 |
| jroll | or to figure out how to get rid of 1.1, anyway | 18:17 |
| mat128 | #agreed <jroll> let's work to improve 1.latest inside ironic, while we work cross-project to get rid of 1.1 | 18:17 |
| mat128 | =) | 18:17 |
| jroll | you might need to be chair for that, idk | 18:17 |
| jroll | #agreed let's work to improve 1.latest inside ironic, while we work cross-project to get rid of 1.1 | 18:17 |
| mat128 | bah | 18:17 |
| mat128 | I don't think we've heard everyone though | 18:17 |
| cdent | great idea | 18:18 |
| jroll | does anyone disagree? | 18:18 |
| cdent | also very pragmatic | 18:18 |
| jroll | rloo and rpioso are the only ones left :) | 18:18 |
| rloo | i didn't disagree :) | 18:18 |
| jroll | just making sure you're still with us :P | 18:18 |
| rloo | ha ha | 18:19 |
| jroll | okay, I think we're all good with that | 18:19 |
| rpioso | agree | 18:19 |
| jroll | woo | 18:19 |
| jroll | so going back to ironic | 18:20 |
| jroll | the pad is starting to get into the 'how', not the 'what' | 18:20 |
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| jroll | so I think we should capture the 'what' in a spec before it gets too messy, and then start focusing on the 'how' | 18:20 |
| jroll | and put it in the backlog, and continue to iterate on it after that lands | 18:21 |
| jroll | does anyone want to volunteer to own proposing and keeping up with that? | 18:21 |
| mat128 | jroll: I thought devananda wanted to submit the spec and created that etherpad only for sharing his draft | 18:22 |
| rloo | ++ that's what deva mentioned in yesterday's weekly meeting | 18:22 |
| jroll | ah okay, perfect | 18:22 |
| jroll | wasn't sure how much he had volunteered for :) | 18:22 |
| rloo | let's make it official then with a #whatever :) | 18:22 |
| jroll | so I'll bug him to do that | 18:22 |
| jroll | #agreed volunteer devananda to propose the problem bits of a spec to the backlog | 18:23 |
| rloo | might not even be backlog... | 18:23 |
| jroll | idk, an unfinished spec belongs there imo | 18:23 |
| jroll | but that isn't a super strong opinion, so :) | 18:23 |
| jroll | as long as it's in the repo, I'm happy | 18:24 |
| rloo | oh, backlog has always been somewhat questionable for me anyway. | 18:24 |
| jroll | heh | 18:24 |
| jroll | I wonder if each problem should be a separate spec | 18:25 |
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| jroll | so we can limit specs to a single change | 18:25 |
| mat128 | ^not a bad idea | 18:25 |
| cdent | seems like that would increase the chance of stuff getting one | 18:26 |
| cdent | done | 18:26 |
| jroll | I feel like the next step is start working out solutions one-by-one, so a spec each would make that easier | 18:26 |
| rloo | jroll: that is another way to approach it. if each one is implemented via a bump in microversion then that makes sense. if we were going to do a real /v2/ then they should all be together. | 18:26 |
| jroll | otherwise a spec with a huge number of changes will never end the bikeshedding | 18:26 |
| mat128 | rloo: I feel like it's going to be the former | 18:26 |
| jroll | rloo: sure, agree, I also question if a big v2 drop would ever get done :) | 18:27 |
| jroll | similar reasoning | 18:27 |
| rloo | this is reminding me of the new states spec that was a parent spec ... | 18:27 |
| jroll | I say we try to do it incrementally until we find out it's impossible | 18:28 |
| mat128 | +1 | 18:28 |
| jroll | rloo: was it? did we find that easier or harder? | 18:28 |
| * jroll honestly can't remember, other than that whole thing was painful | 18:28 | |
| rloo | i think it was good to have the overal viewpoint, but we realized that we weren't going to implement it all in one shot, and for bikeshedding or other reasons, didn't want to drill down into more detail for each state, in that original spec. | 18:29 |
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| mat128 | I think the question to ask ourselves is the following: "Does each part bring business value (ugh) independently?" | 18:30 |
| rloo | it was painful cuz we didn't spend enough time thinking about it and the process to get it done and it involved microversions etc. | 18:30 |
| jroll | yeah, fair | 18:31 |
| jroll | it kind of kick-started the microversion thing | 18:31 |
| rloo | yup. i think that was the bigger mess. | 18:31 |
| jroll | indeed | 18:31 |
| mat128 | good thing it's in place already :D | 18:31 |
| jroll | obligatory i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing.gif | 18:32 |
| rloo | mat128: sort of. mostly... | 18:32 |
| rloo | we don't do portmortems, do we :) | 18:32 |
| jroll | no. we should. | 18:32 |
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| * jroll made a note | 18:34 | |
| jroll | so, let's try the one-spec-for-each thing and see how that goes | 18:34 |
| jroll | I really don't think one big spec would ever merge | 18:35 |
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| mat128 | but it'd be a starting point for splitting | 18:35 |
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| jroll | mmm, we could do problem description as one big one | 18:35 |
| jroll | and break them out as we flesh it out more | 18:35 |
| jroll | hrm | 18:35 |
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| rloo | see what deva thinks since he offered to put up a spec | 18:36 |
| jroll | yeah | 18:36 |
| jroll | okay, I'll do that | 18:36 |
| rpioso | seems like the overall viewpoint for this effort would have value | 18:36 |
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| jroll | once we get that part landed we can start working on how to fix each thing | 18:36 |
| jroll | rpioso: what do you mean by viewpoint? | 18:36 |
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| rpioso | guiding principles | 18:37 |
| jroll | as... "an API should be simple to use" (for some definition of simple)? | 18:38 |
| rpioso | such as incremental improvement to v1, instead of a new, shiny, yet never delivered, v2 | 18:38 |
| jroll | things like that? | 18:38 |
| jroll | yeah | 18:38 |
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| jroll | okay, so we're on the tail end of newton, I suspect most of us will be pretty busy. do we want to try to get that spec(s) merged in the next two weeks and skip next week's meeting? | 18:40 |
| jroll | or keep next week's meeting in case something comes up we want to talk about here | 18:40 |
| mat128 | I would keep it | 18:40 |
| mat128 | just to make sure we made progress on the spec | 18:41 |
| mat128 | or got it approved / merged / looked at by the right people | 18:41 |
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| jroll | alright, I'm okay with that | 18:41 |
| jroll | #topic open discussion | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ironic-v2-api)" | 18:42 | |
| jroll | anything else folks want to chat about here? | 18:42 |
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| cdent | nosir | 18:42 |
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| rloo | zilch | 18:43 |
| mat128 | nope I think that's it :) | 18:43 |
| jroll | alright, thanks for coming y'all :) | 18:43 |
| jroll | #endmeeting | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops_guide)" | 18:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 18:43:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_v2_api/2016/ironic_v2_api.2016-08-09-18.00.html | 18:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_v2_api/2016/ironic_v2_api.2016-08-09-18.00.txt | 18:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_v2_api/2016/ironic_v2_api.2016-08-09-18.00.log.html | 18:43 |
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