Thursday, 2016-08-18

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steve_ruanhi15:08
steve_ruanis this neutron l3 meeting?15:08
njohnstoncancelled because of neutron midcycle15:08
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cdent#startmeeting api_wg16:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 18 16:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is cdent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: api_wg)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'api_wg'16:00
cdent#chair elmiko etoews16:00
openstackWarning: Nick not in channel: elmiko16:00
etoewso/16:00
openstackCurrent chairs: cdent elmiko etoews16:00
cdentoh noes, no elmiko16:00
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cdentwho, besides etoews and I, is here for api-wg?16:01
cdent#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-WG#Agenda16:01
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cdent#topic previous meeting action items16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "previous meeting action items (Meeting topic: api_wg)"16:01
cdent#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-08-11-16.00.html16:01
cdentonly action from that was me trying to hook up gerrit and launchpad, review in progress at16:01
cdent#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/355885/16:02
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cdentso new biz:16:02
rosmaitao/16:02
cdent#topic making capabilities a cross project thing16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "making capabilities a cross project thing (Meeting topic: api_wg)"16:02
cdentah, good rosmaita, nice to see you16:03
etoewsi saw the email thread16:03
cdentbasically I'd like to make sure that if we're going to have capabilities discovery it is the same from service to service16:03
cdenteven better would be if it were aligned with some kind of global emerging standard16:04
cdentbut that's often hard to do in this context16:04
etoewscdent: by capabilities, surely you mean traits ;)16:05
cdentheh, in this case I actually mean capabilities :(16:06
cdentit's all very confusing16:06
etoewsoh. yep. now i'm confused.16:06
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etoewsit what your talking about different from the ML thread?16:06
cdentthere are two threads from the mailing list16:06
etoewss/your/you're/16:06
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etoewscdent: wait. this has rabbit hole written all over it. let's find out what rosmaita would like to chat about first.16:07
cdentone is the discussion of the jaypipes' library, initially named os-capabilities which got renamed to os-traits. These are things that a resource provider can do. for example a shared disk service might have a a trait of "ssd". an adjectival description of a quality available from this thing. compute hosts would have them for machine ops and such16:07
cdenttwo is what a use can do at service (such as upload an image file)16:08
cdentgoing point etoews, rosmaita you got something ?16:08
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rosmaitawell, i have 2 things actually16:08
cdents/going/good/16:08
rosmaitafirst one is related to this16:08
cdentyay! two things16:08
rosmaitawe are implementing some discovery in glance for the image import refactor16:09
rosmaitawe called it "value discovery"16:09
rosmaitait doesn't quite map to "capabilities" (at least I don't think so)16:09
rosmaitahttps://specs.openstack.org/openstack/glance-specs/specs/mitaka/approved/image-import/image-import-refactor.html#value-discovery16:09
rosmaitamy question is whether this still looks OK16:09
rosmaitawe planned it before the capabilities stuff took off16:10
rosmaitaso i don't want glance to do something non-standard16:10
rosmaitathe idea is each deployer will expose this doc, but the values are likely to be unique to a deployment16:11
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rosmaitaand, it is specific to importing images, not a general statement about the capabilities of the image service16:12
* etoews reads16:12
cdentthis looks a bit more detailed that what I of as capabilities, but I'm not sure I really know enough about the capabilities plans to be sure about that16:12
rosmaitayes, it is focused on a very specific use case16:12
rosmaitaanyway, please keep it in mind as you think about the other stuff16:13
rosmaitain case you detect any conflicts16:13
rosmaitathat's all for my first topic16:14
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cdent#action (everyone) keep an eye on https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/glance-specs/specs/mitaka/approved/image-import/image-import-refactor.html#value-discovery as it may relate to the ongoing capabilities discussion16:14
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rosmaitathanks!16:14
cdentsecond?16:14
rosmaitathe second one is a general api kind of question16:14
rosmaitaabout versioning16:15
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* cdent prepares a shed16:15
rosmaitathe images api is not microversioned16:15
rosmaitaand, tbh, the milliversions or deciversions, whatever you call the minor number after the dot, have not always been bumped appropriately16:15
rosmaitabut that's all in the past16:15
rosmaitaanyway, my question is, if you are versioning like we are, e.g., 2.1, 2.2, 2.316:16
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rosmaitasuppose that some improvements are made to some query string parameters16:16
rosmaitalike for listing images16:16
rosmaitasay, adding support for the api-wg approved way of expressing them16:17
rosmaitawould that type of change entail a minor version bump16:17
rosmaita(he says, hoping the answer is no)16:17
rosmaita?16:17
cdentIt depends a lot on who you ask and what you want microversions to signal or mean?16:18
etoewsrosmaita: is your concern about bumping because that version is in the URL?16:18
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cdentIf the behavior is only adding something, and not breaking any pre-existing behavior, and is not changing any representations, then I would say "no"16:18
rosmaitacdent: ok, that's what we were thinking too16:19
rosmaitaetoews: sort of16:19
rosmaitalet me give you some context for this question, it's the api-ref16:19
etoewsi'm agreed with cdent, especially if it means changing the URL.16:19
rosmaitai was wondering whether we should have a particular version of the api-ref associated with each stable release16:20
rosmaitasdague pointed out that we should just have an ongoing ever-accurate api-ref16:20
rosmaitabut nova has microversions, and i think for the query parameter situation i described, they introduce a new microversion16:20
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rosmaitabut since we aren't microversioned, that doesn't help16:21
etoewsya16:21
rosmaitai guess what's really at stake is who the consumers of the api-ref are16:21
cdentyes, nova tends to microversion whenever there's a hint that it might make sense16:21
cdentrosmaita: I think you need to trust that human's are adaptable and can, will and should read stuff when things go wrong16:21
cdentsigh: humans16:22
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rosmaitayou see the problem for glance ... the newton api-ref may be the same version as mitaka, but not everything described in that will work in mitaka16:22
rosmaitaor is this not something to worry about?16:22
cdentIf the doc is being written mostly by hand is it okay to say something like "since x.y.z you can use params foo=bar"16:22
cdentin a ..note:: ?16:23
rosmaitaexcept we don't have a z16:23
cdentwell i was being generic, that could be a date, or a realease name, or what have you16:23
rosmaitaok, so a release name would be acceptable?16:24
cdentjust some identifier, any identifier, that people can discover16:24
cdentthe issue that people are trying to solve is when you move from one cloud to another that things break _and_ you can't figure out why16:24
rosmaitaok, that's good16:24
cdentif you can figure out why, somehow, then the sin is much less dire16:24
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etoewspersonally i'm not crazy about that stuff in docs. the docs tend to become littered with such things and it forces devs to do a little mental calculation every time they hit one.16:25
rosmaitathe problem is that there's no way to really discover whether you have a liberty 2.3 images api or a mitaka 2.3 images api16:25
etoewsthat's the rub16:25
rosmaitaetoews: exactly16:25
cdentrosmaita: if that's really true, then you don't have actually have a 2.3 and a 2.316:26
cdentyou have a 2.3 and something else16:26
etoewsmicroversions would help this case.16:26
cdentyes16:26
rosmaitai guess that's why microversions were invented16:26
rosmaitayes16:26
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rosmaitacdent: that's probably true, about the 2.3 and something else, but that boat has sailed16:27
rosmaitaguess we can just vow to be better in the future16:27
cdentmicroversions are useful, despite being a bit hammer-making-lots-of-nails-ish16:27
rosmaitaok, well this was a helpful discussion16:28
rosmaitathanks!16:28
cdentin your situation, in the older version when the new parameter is used, what would happen? failure of some kind or just ignoring it?16:28
rosmaitai think mostly just ignoring16:29
etoewsrosmaita: back to your capabilities question. fyi, dramakri brought up something that looked similar a couple of weeks ago #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-08-04-16.00.log.html16:29
* cdent nods16:29
rosmaitathough there may be some weird stuff with the time formats that causes 400s16:30
etoews#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306930/12/specs/newton/discovering-system-capabilities.rst16:30
rosmaitaetoews: thanks for the link, will look16:30
etoewshe was going to start a guideline about it but we haven't heard back yet and i didn't see his name on the ML discussion about capabilities.16:31
etoewstake it fwiw, don't hold up your dev over it.16:31
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rosmaitaok thanks16:33
rosmaitathat's all from me16:33
cdentI think we've had enough about capabilities in general so move on?16:33
cdent#topic non-JSON apis and response bodies and their impact on and presence in guidelines16:33
*** openstack changes topic to "non-JSON apis and response bodies and their impact on and presence in guidelines (Meeting topic: api_wg)"16:33
cdentnotmyname had some comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322194/ and other recent guidelines about non-json or non-small apis16:34
cdentmost of our guidelines make fine sense in the json world, but not so much elsewhere16:34
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cdentare we mostly focused on the json-api arena?16:35
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elmikohey16:35
elmikosorry, missed my calendar bing16:35
cdentyour penance is being the primary on the newsletter this week16:35
elmikohaha16:35
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cdentI tend to think that we should focus on good behavior in headers and http and what not in general, and when thinking about bodies, mostly concern ourselves with JSON as everything else is often an edge case16:37
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etoewsagreed16:38
etoewswhat you described covers 98% of openstack apis16:38
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cdentelmiko: ?16:38
elmikothat seems like a reasonable statement on the face, what's the context?16:38
elmikolike, what non-json apis are we talking about?16:39
etoewsi'm fine with swift being an exception but we can't constantly have to call out that it's an exception in every single guideline16:39
cdentrecent comments from notmyname on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322194/ and other recent guidelines16:39
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cdentI would guess that he's wary of being called out as non-normal at some point down the road, just for swift doing what swift does.16:40
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cdentso there's some desire to make it explicit16:40
cdentto avoid future drama16:40
cdentbut I'm guessing16:40
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elmikois this mainly about apis returning multi-part binaries and stuff?16:41
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etoewsthat would be fine with me but let's call it out as a high level exception somewhere "non-json apis are okay but are out of scope of these guidelines"16:41
elmikoetoews++16:41
etoewsinstead of littering the guidelines with exceptions16:41
cdentyes16:42
* cdent makes a bug16:42
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cdentokay, moving on16:44
cdent#topic open mic16:45
*** openstack changes topic to "open mic (Meeting topic: api_wg)"16:45
* elmiko beat boxes16:45
cdentanything else new business-wise. good stuff from rosmaita. anyone else?16:45
cdent(aforementioned bug:16:46
cdent#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-wg/+bug/161462416:46
openstackLaunchpad bug 1614624 in openstack-api-wg "top level caveat about json focus required" [Undecided,New]16:46
cdent)16:46
cdentno new biz16:46
cdent#topic guidelines16:46
*** openstack changes topic to "guidelines (Meeting topic: api_wg)"16:46
cdent#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-wg,n,z16:46
cdentI was gonna say my uri thing was ready to merge, but etoews has made a reasonable request for moar hypertext16:46
cdentthere's a non-voting comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354266/ that I'm not sure I'm fully parsing16:48
* etoews ruins all the fun16:48
etoewsi think i understand that comment16:49
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etoewsqiming would rather see an example with something like href="/servers/1234"16:50
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elmikothat's what it sounds like16:50
cdentI suppose that would be more aux context?16:50
etoewsthat puts the onus on the client to construct the full URI16:51
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cdent8 minutes left16:52
cdentare the other two guidelines ready for freeze or need more discussion?16:52
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cdenti'd say no on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/346846/ (just my vote)16:54
cdentand yes on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353396/ (many votes)16:54
elmikoi concur16:56
elmikoalso added my reviews on those16:56
etoewsagreed16:56
* cdent sends hassle16:57
etoews:)16:57
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cdentokay, two minutes16:58
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cdentnewsletter16:58
cdent#topic weekly newsletter16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "weekly newsletter (Meeting topic: api_wg)"16:59
cdent#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-wg-newsletter16:59
cdentI've added the frozen guideline link17:00
cdent#endmeeting17:00
cdentthanks everyone17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug 18 17:00:08 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-08-18-16.00.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-08-18-16.00.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-08-18-16.00.log.html17:00
etoewsthanks17:00
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kzaitsev_mba courtosey ping to igormarnat_: mfedosin: sskripnick: docaedo: olaph17:01
mfedosino/17:01
kzaitsev_mbkfox and olaph are not here today17:01
kzaitsev_mbdo we need a formal meeting today or can we skip it? =)17:02
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mfedosinI vote for skipping17:02
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mfedosindoes anyone have any objections?17:03
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kzaitsev_mb(I have half an update, that I'm in the process of making my dashboard commits green, but that's a WIP and as soon as I have some substential results — I would advertise them in the usual channel anyway17:04
kzaitsev_mbmfedosin: looks like you and I are the only one to show up today =)17:04
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mfedosinseems so17:05
kzaitsev_mbsome of my uni professors refused to start a lecture if there were <5 studendts =)17:05
kzaitsev_mbso I'm going to say, that unless some 3d person shows up in 5 mins — I'm proposing to skip17:06
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mfedosinacademic delay is 15 minutes actually17:07
kzaitsev_mbwell academic hour is not 60 minutes either ;)17:07
sskripnickhiyo =)17:07
mfedosinbut yeah, let's wait for next 5 minutes and skip it17:07
mfedosinsskripnick: hey17:07
kzaitsev_mbwell, I'd say let's make a real short formal one17:08
mfedosinkzaitsev_mb: sskripnick is here - start the meeting17:08
kzaitsev_mb#startmeeting app_catalog17:08
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 18 17:08:38 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is kzaitsev_mb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:08
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:08
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kzaitsev_mbwe don't have any specific agenda for today, so let's got with status updates17:09
mfedosinplease begin17:09
kzaitsev_mbalso since it looks like only sskripnick, mfedosin, and myself are present — I suggest to make it a short one )17:09
kzaitsev_mb#topic Status Updates17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Status Updates (Meeting topic: app_catalog)"17:09
mfedosinkzaitsev_mb: +117:09
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kzaitsev_mbI have a real short one. I've prioritised my work on reorganising murano-dashboard and app-catalog-ui under common dashboard/structure.17:10
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kzaitsev_mbMost work is going to be in murano-dashboard anyway17:10
sskripnickI have some progress with new UI. Now forms are created from artifact schemas.17:11
kzaitsev_mbsince it is a very python-oriented dashboard and there would be a bunch of renames17:11
mfedosinwe're working on evacuation of glare code from glance repo17:11
kzaitsev_mb#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/apps-dashboard-structure17:11
kzaitsev_mbfor the record =)17:11
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mfedosinalmost all work is done - I was able to start the service on my devstack without any additional changes17:12
kzaitsev_mbsskripnick: cool, I believe folks from ci-cd murano apps would really love that kind of progress17:12
kzaitsev_mbmfedosin: so we're only waiting on the repository code to land?17:13
kzaitsev_mbcan you share a link to the patch for history? =)17:13
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mfedosinkzaitsev_mb: btw, it's a really cool feature - now when you add new artifact type, schema is generated automatically (as well as related ui for app-catalog)17:13
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mfedosinsure17:13
mfedosin#link https://github.com/Fedosin/glare17:14
mfedosinthere is a commit in project-config17:14
mfedosin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352519/17:14
kzaitsev_mbthanks =)17:14
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mfedosinwe already have one +217:15
mfedosinand we're waiting for final +2A17:15
mfedosinif you you can, please review the patch too17:16
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kzaitsev_mbjust wondering real quick — are you planning to add py3 support? )17:17
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mfedosinit's already there17:18
kzaitsev_mbcommit looks good to me (I would add py3 jobs from the very start maybe, but otherwise looks ok)17:18
mfedosinbut we have to add required tests to make sure17:19
kzaitsev_mbwell you can add py jobs in a separate patch, so as not to loose the +2 )17:19
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kzaitsev_mb*py317:19
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mfedosinkzaitsev_mb: agree17:19
kzaitsev_mbCool. I don't think I have anything more to share? mfedosin sskripnick, you folks? =)17:20
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sskripnicknope17:20
mfedosinnope17:20
kzaitsev_mbok, then I'm going to end the meeting. Thanks for showing up today, and see you in #app-catalog and next week here =)17:21
kzaitsev_mb#endmeeting17:21
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:21
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug 18 17:21:53 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:21
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2016/app_catalog.2016-08-18-17.08.html17:21
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_catalog/2016/app_catalog.2016-08-18-17.08.txt17:21
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SumitNaiksatamrkukura: ivar-lazzaro tbachman igordcard: hi17:59
tbachmanSumitNaiksatam: hi!17:59
ivar-lazzarohi17:59
SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting networking_policy18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 18 18:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
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SumitNaiksatam#info agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/GroupBasedPolicy#Aug_18th.2C_11th.2C_4th.2C_July_21st_201618:00
SumitNaiksatamsame agenda as last week18:00
rkukurahi18:00
SumitNaiksatam#topic L3-Policy mapping to Address Scope & Subnetpool18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "L3-Policy mapping to Address Scope & Subnetpool (Meeting topic: networking_policy)"18:00
SumitNaiksatam#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/34392918:00
SumitNaiksatamivar-lazzaro: thanks for the vote on the latest patch set18:00
SumitNaiksatamanything more to discuss on this today?18:01
rkukuraSumitNaiksatam: I gave it +2/+A18:01
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SumitNaiksatamrkukura: ah thanks18:01
rkukuraI appeciate the explanation of why multiple subnetpools are useful18:02
SumitNaiksatamso i guess we are set for now18:02
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: np, thanks, as before, for the engaging reviews18:02
rkukuraI still have some reservation about ignoring input params, but commented on that18:02
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: okay, i will check18:02
rkukurathanks18:02
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: we can always update the spec and/or accomodate changes during the implementation18:02
rkukuraright18:03
SumitNaiksatamanything more to discuss on this topic today?18:03
rkukuranot from me18:03
SumitNaiksatami think hemanthravi is at a customer site, but would have liked to get his team’s input as well on this18:03
SumitNaiksatami dont think songole is around either18:03
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: okay thanks18:03
SumitNaiksatamis igordcard around?18:04
* SumitNaiksatam thinks he is busy following the olympics in prime time! ;-)18:04
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SumitNaiksatami dont have anything else on the agenda for today18:05
SumitNaiksatami am busy with writing the async AIM driver18:05
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SumitNaiksatamso havent had a chance to look at anything else18:05
SumitNaiksatamrkukura and ivar-lazzaro are also busy with related work18:06
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SumitNaiksatami will get to implementing the address-scope/subnetpools mapping as soon as i am done with my current patch18:06
SumitNaiksatamif nothing else, we can wrap up early today18:06
rkukurasounds good to me - plenty of work to do18:07
ivar-lazzaroSumitNaiksatam: +1!18:07
SumitNaiksatamrkukura: ivar-lazzaro: +118:07
SumitNaiksatamalrighty, thanks all for stopping by!18:07
SumitNaiksatambye!18:07
rkukurathanks for chairing SumitNaiksatam!18:07
SumitNaiksatam#endmeeting18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:07
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug 18 18:07:44 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:07
rkukurabye18:07
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2016/networking_policy.2016-08-18-18.00.html18:07
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2016/networking_policy.2016-08-18-18.00.txt18:07
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2016/networking_policy.2016-08-18-18.00.log.html18:07
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