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| soichi | hi | 05:30 |
|---|---|---|
| reedip | gm | 05:30 |
| yamamot__ | hi | 05:30 |
| soichi | #startmeeting taas | 05:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 7 05:30:56 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is soichi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:30 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: taas)" | 05:30 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'taas' | 05:31 |
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| reedip | I just republished the OSC patch ... | 05:31 |
| soichi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/taas | 05:31 |
| reedip | JFYI | 05:31 |
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| soichi | reedip: yes | 05:31 |
| soichi | #topic spec | 05:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec (Meeting topic: taas)" | 05:32 | |
| soichi | 1) we should finialize the current spec | 05:33 |
| yamamot__ | it's a reminder of spec review + some questions from dragonflow folk | 05:33 |
| soichi | +1 | 05:33 |
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| reedip | ok | 05:34 |
| reedip | Just going through the points | 05:34 |
| yamamot__ | first, please review the spec. | 05:34 |
| yamamot__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/256210/ | 05:34 |
| yamamot__ | and assuming the spec is ok, now we have a possible extension to the spec | 05:34 |
| yamamot__ | ie. "position" parameter | 05:35 |
| reedip | yamamot__ : the spec looks fine by me , but we need some neutron cores as well to review it | 05:35 |
| yamamot__ | and we need some clarification about tap on tap | 05:35 |
| yamamot__ | reedip: i don't see why. we are not neutron. | 05:35 |
| reedip | yamamot__ then whats stopping us from merging it :) | 05:36 |
| yamamot__ | i don't know. | 05:36 |
| yamamot__ | it just needs another +2 i guess | 05:36 |
| reedip | you can give it +2 , right ? | 05:37 |
| vnyyad | i am reviewing it will push it thru today by my evening | 05:37 |
| reedip | unless you are the author ( I forgot ) | 05:37 |
| yamamot__ | vnyyad: thank you | 05:37 |
| reedip | vnyyad : great to see you here :) | 05:37 |
| soichi | vnyyad: +1 | 05:37 |
| vnyyad | thanks :) | 05:37 |
| vnyyad | great to see you all too | 05:38 |
| yamamot__ | vnyyad and i are authors of the spec, anil's +2 would be ideal. | 05:38 |
| yamamot__ | is he busy these days? | 05:38 |
| vnyyad | yes he was | 05:38 |
| vnyyad | i will mail him regarding this now and see what he has to ay | 05:39 |
| vnyyad | *say | 05:39 |
| yamamot__ | thank you | 05:40 |
| yamamot__ | any of you need explanation about "position" parameter? | 05:40 |
| soichi | yamamot__: yes, could you explain a little bit about "position" parameter? | 05:41 |
| yamamot__ | it was in an earlier version of the spec but reverted when we decided to concentrate to the basic functionality | 05:41 |
| yamamot__ | and now dragonflow folks want it. | 05:41 |
| yamamot__ | midonet wants it too. | 05:42 |
| yamamot__ | it's an attribute for tap-flow | 05:42 |
| yamamot__ | it controls traffic is tapped before or after SG processing | 05:42 |
| soichi | i see | 05:42 |
| vnyyad | ok i remember | 05:43 |
| yamamot__ | i guess the alternative position is almost impossible to implement for the current reference implementation, where SG is implemented as a separate bridge. | 05:43 |
| yamamot__ | so it's at this point for the benefit for vendors. | 05:44 |
| soichi | i understood | 05:45 |
| yamamot__ | i guess i (or probably dragonflow folk) can submit an extension spec once the current spec is merged. | 05:45 |
| vnyyad | ok... does this need to a runtime thing so something that can be configured while setting up tas | 05:45 |
| vnyyad | if runtime we need the field | 05:46 |
| yamamot__ | i'm not sure what you mean | 05:46 |
| vnyyad | i mean if we want to choose position differently for each tap flow setup then its more on the run time and need a parameterr | 05:47 |
| vnyyad | but if we say as a config all tap tapping is done either before the sc or after the sc then it can be defined in the configuration file | 05:48 |
| yamamot__ | which configuration file? | 05:48 |
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| vnyyad | taas config | 05:49 |
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| yamamot__ | you mean plugin config? | 05:49 |
| yamamot__ | ie. neutron server config | 05:49 |
| vnyyad | yeah plugin config ... would that be possible or even meaning full | 05:50 |
| yamamot__ | it's possible but i don't see any benefit. the plugin still need to tell agents which position should be used. | 05:51 |
| reedip | interesting , and considering that most users would want all their taps to be placed in a single location ( before or after SG ) but the choice of position would vary between the users | 05:51 |
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| yamamot__ | and it's inconsistent among deployment from POV of api users | 05:51 |
| soichi | i guess it depends on the position is configured or specifed by OpenStack operator or user (tenant) | 05:52 |
| vnyyad | yeah... ok | 05:52 |
| vnyyad | i agree | 05:52 |
| yamamot__ | next topic is "tap on tap" | 05:53 |
| yamamot__ | it's also raised by dragonflow folks | 05:53 |
| yamamot__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396307/ dragonflow taas spec | 05:53 |
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| yamamot__ | a question is, what should happen if we configure mirroring from port-A to port-B, and another mirroring from port-B to port-C | 05:55 |
| yamamot__ | port-C should see which traffic? | 05:55 |
| yamamot__ | i listed a few choices on the wiki | 05:56 |
| soichi | i think b) mirror all traffic on the port, including mirrored traffic | 05:56 |
| soichi | in case "ingree" or "both" is specied on port-B | 05:56 |
| yamamot__ | i thought b) too, it's the reason why i implemented it in midonet that way. | 05:56 |
| kaz | i think so, traffic on the port-A and port-B will be seen. | 05:57 |
| yamamot__ | but i guess for some implementations it's difficult to avoid loop | 05:57 |
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| yamamot__ | eg. A and B tap each other | 05:57 |
| kaz | i see | 05:58 |
| yamamot__ | so "a) prevent it at plugin level?" might be the safest bet | 05:58 |
| oanson | Maybe loop avoidance in the northbound? Throw an error when the last edge in the loop is added? | 05:58 |
| yamamot__ | oanson: good point | 05:59 |
| yamamot__ | for those who don't know: oanson is a dragonflow folk. | 05:59 |
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| vnyyad | oanson: +1 | 06:00 |
| soichi | +1 | 06:00 |
| yamamot__ | oanson: you mean at plugin level right? | 06:00 |
| oanson | Yes. We're working on implementing the API in Dragonflow, and this is a corner-case we were wondering how to solve | 06:00 |
| oanson | yamamot__, yes | 06:00 |
| yamamot__ | i wonder how complex a loop detection will be. | 06:02 |
| yamamot__ | if we can use CTEs it's easy, but i guess we can't. | 06:03 |
| oanson | What about cycle detection algorithms in graphs? | 06:03 |
| oanson | It's O(V+E), where V is services, and E is flows (vertices and edges in the original) | 06:04 |
| yamamot__ | yes. my concern is how to apply it to our implementation in a race-free manner. | 06:05 |
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| yamamot__ | any volunteer to design/implement the loop detection? | 06:06 |
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| yamamot__ | and if we go the route, we need to do something for the reference implementation i guess. | 06:07 |
| reedip | I am still not clear , its new for me :) | 06:07 |
| yamamot__ | which part is not clear? | 06:08 |
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| yamamot__ | as it's merely a safety rope anyway, i guess the detection doesn't need to be strict. eg. we can terminate if the chain is longer than X. | 06:12 |
| yamamot__ | is this the last topic for today? | 06:13 |
| soichi | i think the loop detection is an interesting topic, but we need more time to think it deeply. | 06:13 |
| yamamot__ | soichi: +1 let's make it a homework for this week | 06:13 |
| vnyyad | soichi: +1 | 06:14 |
| soichi | okay | 06:14 |
| yamamot__ | #action all think about loop detection | 06:14 |
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| soichi | Kaz requested for Motoki-san to review TaaS GUI | 06:16 |
| yamamot__ | can you change the topic? | 06:16 |
| soichi | #topic TaaS GUI | 06:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TaaS GUI (Meeting topic: taas)" | 06:16 | |
| soichi | Kaz requested for Motoki-san to review TaaS GUI | 06:16 |
| soichi | JFYI | 06:16 |
| kaz | i sent a mail to Motoki-san and i asked him to be a reviewer of my TaaS dashboard patch. | 06:16 |
| yamamot__ | thank you | 06:17 |
| soichi | #topic Open Discusstion | 06:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discusstion (Meeting topic: taas)" | 06:17 | |
| yamamot__ | i created newton branch | 06:17 |
| soichi | +1, thank you | 06:18 |
| vnyyad | yamamot__: thanks | 06:18 |
| kaz | +1 | 06:18 |
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| reedip | +1 | 06:18 |
| yamamot__ | a lesson here is the fact taas is actually used by other projects. :-) | 06:19 |
| soichi | great!! | 06:19 |
| vnyyad | awesome!!! | 06:19 |
| reedip | We need to get the Spec approved and move this to governance :D ( just my thoughts ) | 06:19 |
| yamamot__ | a reminder for reviewers: there are a few patches for the branch already. | 06:20 |
| yamamot__ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tap-as-a-service+branch:stable/newton newton reviews | 06:20 |
| soichi | reedip: sure | 06:20 |
| soichi | yamamot__: i will check them | 06:21 |
| reedip | I have a question | 06:21 |
| reedip | thats related to deployment and packaging of TaaS | 06:22 |
| reedip | is there a document which highlights how TaaS should be deployed in a test env ? | 06:22 |
| reedip | And is there any current plan for packaging it ( as an RPM ) for test clouds? | 06:22 |
| yamamot__ | i thought there is ubuntu package | 06:23 |
| yamamot__ | i don't know which version is it though | 06:23 |
| reedip | really ???? | 06:23 |
| reedip | I didnt know that | 06:24 |
| vnyyad | hmmm did not know either | 06:24 |
| yamamot__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+package/python-neutron-taas | 06:24 |
| reedip | So we can use it to deploy taas ?? | 06:24 |
| yamamot__ | i guess so. you can try. :-) | 06:25 |
| vnyyad | oh yeah it does exist :) | 06:25 |
| reedip | Ok, let me try it then :D | 06:25 |
| yamamot__ | they are keen to package every software i guess :-) | 06:26 |
| reedip | It seems so :) | 06:26 |
| yamamot__ | #action reedip try ubuntu package | 06:26 |
| reedip | Good that they are, atleast we can make something with it | 06:26 |
| reedip | yamamot__ I am trying to create a document which highlights TaaS | 06:26 |
| reedip | I mean how to use it, deploy it , et al | 06:27 |
| soichi | reedip* +1 | 06:27 |
| reedip | I think it can be used as a reference document for everyone ( new developers/users etc ) so that they can test it out | 06:27 |
| reedip | and we can keep this doc in (1) Repo or in (2) Wiki | 06:27 |
| vnyyad | reedip: +1 | 06:28 |
| soichi | both (1) and (2) :) | 06:28 |
| reedip | soichi : hehe . Ok I will :) | 06:29 |
| kaz | +1 | 06:29 |
| yamamot__ | i prefer (1) as i prefer doc and code live together. | 06:29 |
| yamamot__ | 1 min left | 06:29 |
| reedip | we can link the doc with the wiki | 06:29 |
| reedip | i am done with this point , thanks guys | 06:30 |
| yamamot__ | thank you | 06:30 |
| soichi | it looks we run out of time | 06:30 |
| reedip | #action reedip to create a doc | 06:30 |
| soichi | see you next week | 06:30 |
| yamamot__ | bye | 06:30 |
| soichi | #endmeeting | 06:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 06:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 7 06:30:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 06:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/taas/2016/taas.2016-12-07-05.30.html | 06:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/taas/2016/taas.2016-12-07-05.30.txt | 06:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/taas/2016/taas.2016-12-07-05.30.log.html | 06:30 |
| soichi | bye | 06:30 |
| kaz | bye | 06:30 |
| vnyyad | bye | 06:30 |
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| rmart04 | Morning! Was expecting Public Cloud WG meet, is this still on? | 14:05 |
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| bloatyfloat | rmart04: Not seen any notification on operators list suggesting otherwise | 14:05 |
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| rmart04 | Thanks, Ill hang on then :) | 14:06 |
| Miouge | There was one this morning though | 14:06 |
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| tobberydberg | I'm here for that meeting as well. Is it now or in one hour? | 14:07 |
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| jenk_s_ | Hi All, i'm here. | 14:07 |
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| mattjarvis | sorry folks, got a bit held up | 14:08 |
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| mattjarvis | who's here for the public cloud WG ? | 14:08 |
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| mgagne | <-- | 14:09 |
| tobberydberg | I'm here! | 14:09 |
| Miouge | Me as well :) | 14:09 |
| mattjarvis | hello mgagne | 14:09 |
| mattjarvis | hello all | 14:09 |
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| rmart04 | NP, I’m In | 14:09 |
| jenk_s_ | Hi Matt, I'm here for the public cloud WG (Michael Jenkins) | 14:09 |
| mattjarvis | ok, let me just pull up the etherpad | 14:09 |
| jenk_s_ | Congrats, Matt on the new job! | 14:10 |
| mcunietti | hi matt and congrats again | 14:10 |
| mattjarvis | thanks jenk_s_ | 14:10 |
| mattjarvis | thanks mcunietti | 14:10 |
| mattjarvis | so first things first - could you all add your names to the attendee list if you haven't done already | 14:10 |
| mattjarvis | array:3 [â–¼ | 14:11 |
| mattjarvis | "token" => {#438 â–¶} | 14:11 |
| mattjarvis | "user" => User {#450 â–¶} | 14:11 |
| mattjarvis | "roles" => [] | 14:11 |
| mattjarvis | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg | 14:11 |
| mcunietti | I'm here for the public cloud WG | 14:11 |
| mattjarvis | whoops | 14:11 |
| rmart04 | Could have been worse! | 14:11 |
| mattjarvis | just need to remember the IRC fu to start the meeting | 14:12 |
| mattjarvis | #startmeeting Public Cloud WG | 14:12 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 7 14:12:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mattjarvis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:12 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Public Cloud WG)" | 14:12 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'public_cloud_wg' | 14:12 |
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| mattjarvis | so we seem to have some names as attendees who aren't here - is anyone else lurking ? | 14:12 |
| s3an2 | o/ | 14:13 |
| mattjarvis | ah hello s3an2 | 14:13 |
| mattjarvis | so firstly thank you all for attending | 14:13 |
| mattjarvis | this will be a bit of a work in progress for the first few meetings | 14:14 |
| mcunietti | thank you for gathering us all | 14:14 |
| mattjarvis | the most important things are to define goals and milestones | 14:14 |
| mattjarvis | ah, one other thing - if you haven't done this already could you also add which organisation you are representing | 14:14 |
| mattjarvis | in the etherpad | 14:14 |
| mattjarvis | it's important that we have a representative quorum | 14:14 |
| mcunietti | +1 | 14:14 |
| mattjarvis | and this helps us track | 14:14 |
| mattjarvis | is VW here ? | 14:15 |
| mattjarvis | he said he would try to join | 14:15 |
| mcunietti | I suggest also to add URL and links to service | 14:15 |
| mattjarvis | good idea mcunietti | 14:15 |
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| mcunietti | I see Memset also is here! good | 14:16 |
| rmart04 | Indeedy! | 14:16 |
| mattjarvis | #topic Meeting cadence and communication methods | 14:17 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Meeting cadence and communication methods (Meeting topic: Public Cloud WG)" | 14:17 | |
| mattjarvis | so on to our first topic | 14:17 |
| mattjarvis | for some of the WG's IRC hasn't been a favourite choice, particularly when there are non-technical folks involved too | 14:17 |
| mattjarvis | I hope this group will cover both technical and non-technical issues, so is IRC an issue for anyone right now | 14:18 |
| mcunietti | in order to get an answer, let's add the job description to one's line on etherpad | 14:18 |
| mattjarvis | I've also booked these meetings bi-weekly to begin with as I think there are some fundamental things we need to work out, which will probably involve collaboration around documents to begin with | 14:19 |
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| s3an2 | If IRC was an issue for someone we may not get an answer here | 14:19 |
| mgagne | I prefer IRC tbh as it helps overcoming the language barrier (for me) although I agree that video conference would help us get much higher communication bandwidth | 14:19 |
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| mattjarvis | s3an2, that is true | 14:19 |
| mattjarvis | mgagne, I suspect initially we will collaborate around documents until we work out some milestones, so that will be less of an issue | 14:20 |
| mattjarvis | but I would also like to do face to face meetings at the midcycles and summits | 14:20 |
| * mgagne nods | 14:20 | |
| s3an2 | mattjarvis, +1 for FTF | 14:21 |
| mattjarvis | what are the groups thoughts on the assumptions I put in the ether pad for how this group might work ? | 14:21 |
| rmart04 | I’m easy IRC/FTF/VC | 14:21 |
| mattjarvis | this was mainly stolen from the scientific WG, but I know the user committee is keen to see WG's have clearly defined goals and milestones rather than be talking shops | 14:21 |
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| mattjarvis | I see others have joined - welcome all | 14:22 |
| mattjarvis | great turnout :) | 14:22 |
| tobberydberg | Agreed mattjarvis | 14:22 |
| mattjarvis | so in the absence of any disagreement, we will stick to bi-weekly and IRC for the minute, with the caveat that this may change, add etc. | 14:23 |
| mcunietti | to answer to your question, i suggest we may start addressing competition with AWS. The last Re:invent almost killed me :-) | 14:23 |
| mattjarvis | lol | 14:23 |
| mgagne | I'm fine with the assumptions. They are high level enough that there is nothing to say so far about them. | 14:23 |
| mattjarvis | ok, I think we need to take this step by step - we will get to setting goals :) | 14:23 |
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| mattjarvis | does anyone else have anything to add to this topic ? | 14:24 |
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| mattjarvis | in that case ... | 14:24 |
| mattjarvis | #topic Who is our constituency - how do we ensure that we are representative | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Who is our constituency - how do we ensure that we are representative (Meeting topic: Public Cloud WG)" | 14:24 | |
| jenk_s_ | +1 on competition. Let's think about how to increase PC adoption and usability. | 14:25 |
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| mattjarvis | so I think this topic is important before we really do anything in this WG | 14:25 |
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| mattjarvis | IMO we need to define clearly who our constituency are - ie. what defines a public cloud. If we are going to attempt to represent a community, then we need to define what that community consists of | 14:26 |
| mcunietti | stick to the good old NIST definition? ;-) | 14:26 |
| mattjarvis | I have added a section to the ether pad entitled Who is our constituency. Perhaps the easiest way to do this might be if we take 5 minutes to add our thoughts to the etherpad under that section | 14:26 |
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| mattjarvis | the output of this I would like to be an agreed definition that goes onto our wiki page | 14:27 |
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| mattjarvis | so if I could ask you all to add your thoughts to that section | 14:27 |
| mcunietti | "Public cloud. The cloud infrastructure is provisioned for open use by the general public. It may be owned, managed, and operated by a business, academic, or government organization, or some combination of them. It exists on the premises of the cloud provider." | 14:27 |
| mattjarvis | great mcunietti - could you add that ? Is that the NIST definition ? | 14:27 |
| mcunietti | yep | 14:28 |
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| mattjarvis | there has been some discussion on the lists about whether restricted community clouds also fall under the definition eg. some of the science clouds | 14:28 |
| mgagne | yes, found the same | 14:28 |
| mcunietti | also, I think we should limit to IaaS, shouldn't we? | 14:29 |
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| zhipengh | and of course, based upon OpenStack | 14:29 |
| mgagne | I think the definition is broad enough to encompass most use cases of what should be a public cloud. | 14:29 |
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| jenk_s_ | How should we factor into our WG other projects such as Tacker for NFV -- also very important to the providers. | 14:31 |
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| mattjarvis | jenk_s_, the way I would like that to happen is for this WG to be the focal point for interaction with the public cloud provider community | 14:31 |
| mattjarvis | but TBC | 14:32 |
| zhipengh | jenk_s_ I think NFV might be out of scope here | 14:32 |
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| mcunietti | I agree mattjarvis, this could be a "front-end" for the Openstack community when maybe involved in the market disputes or egulation auditions | 14:32 |
| zhipengh | if we consider the classic public cloud definition | 14:32 |
| mgagne | yea, looks more related to telco or enterprise wg | 14:32 |
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| mattjarvis | so my second question in this area - again part of the idea of being representative | 14:33 |
| mattjarvis | do we represent public cloud operators as per the marketplace - ie. sponsors of the Foundation ? | 14:34 |
| mattjarvis | or is our community wider than that | 14:34 |
| mcunietti | I would split the representation concept in two: internal (towards the OS community) and external (the market, the customers, the other non-OS players) | 14:34 |
| mcunietti | the press also, in the latter | 14:34 |
| mattjarvis | ok, could you articulate that idea in the ether pad ? | 14:35 |
| mcunietti | right away | 14:35 |
| mattjarvis | ty | 14:35 |
| mcunietti | done | 14:37 |
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| mgagne | so this is a way to represent our group to others? (internal: the community itself, external: the market/press) | 14:37 |
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| rmart04 | We (Memset) are not currently listed on the OSFMP, making this a requirement could restrict smaller or newer public cloud operators from representing. | 14:38 |
| logan- | ^ ++ | 14:38 |
| mattjarvis | rmart04, that is a valid point, could you add to the ether pad please | 14:39 |
| rmart04 | sure | 14:39 |
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| mattjarvis | although I would say that there is a low barrier of entry for start ups in terms of cost | 14:39 |
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| mattjarvis | IIRC you also can't use the OpenStack logos | 14:40 |
| mgagne | As long as the cloud is offered publicly, I think it's fine. Counter example, we have a huge private cloud for dev and I wouldn't represent its interests in this group. | 14:40 |
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| mattjarvis | hello VW | 14:41 |
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| mattjarvis | some very good points raised there, looking at time I'd like to keep moving this time - but feel free to continue adding to the ether pad | 14:42 |
| rmart04 | Logos > Not for commercial use, I believe. | 14:42 |
| mattjarvis | rmart04, I believe that is true | 14:42 |
| mcunietti | VW= Vogels Werner, happy you finally joined the rebellion :-) | 14:42 |
| mattjarvis | unless you have an agreement in place | 14:42 |
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| mattjarvis | so finally on the idea of being representative, I added a section about membership of the WG | 14:43 |
| mattjarvis | suggestions again please | 14:43 |
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| mattjarvis | I know their are folks not on the lists who should be represented | 14:43 |
| mattjarvis | I have reached out to a few I know | 14:43 |
| mattjarvis | but it would be good to have the most representative consituency | 14:43 |
| mattjarvis | if anyone has any other ideas, or has contacts with other providers who aren't here | 14:44 |
| mattjarvis | it would be great to get as many people as possible | 14:44 |
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| mattjarvis | again this was something that came out of the scientific WG, and I know they found it useful | 14:44 |
| mcunietti | would it be good to list all the publi cloud providers we know, and have direct emails to our contacts? I think we can cover pretty much all of them | 14:45 |
| mattjarvis | mcunietti, can you take an action to add that list to the ether pad ? | 14:45 |
| mcunietti | ok | 14:45 |
| mattjarvis | I assume you mean from the marketplace | 14:45 |
| tobberydberg | Sounds good | 14:45 |
| mattjarvis | #action mcunietti to add list of public cloud providers to the etherpad | 14:45 |
| mcunietti | I mean the ones where each of us has direct contacts and emails | 14:46 |
| mattjarvis | both might be good information to have in one place | 14:46 |
| mgagne | like word of mouth with people/cloud you know | 14:47 |
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| mcunietti | exactly | 14:48 |
| mcunietti | I don't think that going through official contact points would work | 14:48 |
| mattjarvis | so we have 10 minutes left for this meeting, does anyone else have anything to add to this topic for the minute ? | 14:49 |
| mattjarvis | I'd suggest that we can regularly cycle back to the representation aspect as we move this WG forward | 14:49 |
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| mattjarvis | and please do add any further thoughts to the ether pad. At some point I will then collate, we can vote on the content and then add to our wiki page | 14:50 |
| mattjarvis | given where we are with time, I would like to bump up topic 5 which will then leave us all the remaining time to add thoughts on purpose and goals | 14:51 |
| mattjarvis | is that OK with everyone else ? | 14:51 |
| mgagne | +1 | 14:51 |
| tobberydberg | go | 14:51 |
| rmart04 | +1 | 14:51 |
| mattjarvis | #topic Co-chair proposals <-- nominations and vote. | 14:52 |
| mattjarvis | #topic co-chair nominations | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Co-chair proposals <-- nominations and vote. (Meeting topic: Public Cloud WG)" | 14:52 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "co-chair nominations (Meeting topic: Public Cloud WG)" | 14:52 | |
| mattjarvis | so as with all WG's it is appropriate to have more than one chair | 14:52 |
| mattjarvis | are there any volunteers to act as co-chairs ? | 14:52 |
| mattjarvis | again this comes down to being representative, and also means that everything in terms of organisation isn't resting on one individual | 14:53 |
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| mattjarvis | lol | 14:54 |
| mattjarvis | no-one ? | 14:54 |
| mcunietti | ok matt, I step forward | 14:54 |
| zhipengh | i could volunteer myself | 14:54 |
| mattjarvis | excellent :) | 14:54 |
| VW | sorry - I'm late - got tied up with things this morning | 14:55 |
| mattjarvis | I actually see nothing wrong with 3 co-chairs, does anyone have any thoughts or issues ? | 14:55 |
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| mattjarvis | no worries VW - progress is on the etherpad | 14:55 |
| tobberydberg | I can do it as well! | 14:56 |
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| mgagne | FYI, less than 3 minutes left. | 14:56 |
| mattjarvis | ok, we should probably put this to a vote, but no time today, lets return to this next week and decide what to do | 14:57 |
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| mattjarvis | so before we have to leave, the last topics were to discuss purpose, goals and scope - all kind of linked together | 14:57 |
| mattjarvis | I'd actually suggest the best way to do this would be to add ideas to the ether pad over the next two weeks and discuss once we've all added content | 14:58 |
| mattjarvis | #topic Discuss purpose and goals | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss purpose and goals (Meeting topic: Public Cloud WG)" | 14:58 | |
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| mattjarvis | if you check out the bottom of the ether pad I have added sections on in scope, out of scope, and purpose | 14:59 |
| mattjarvis | could everyone please add their thoughts in those sections for discussion at the next meeting ? | 14:59 |
| zhipengh | sure | 14:59 |
| VW | aye, captain | 14:59 |
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| tobberydberg | yes | 14:59 |
| mattjarvis | this has been a great turnout, thank you all for participating | 14:59 |
| mgagne | thanks! | 15:00 |
| mattjarvis | next meeting will be in 2 weeks time | 15:00 |
| mcunietti | thank you all | 15:00 |
| tobberydberg | Thank you! | 15:00 |
| rmart04 | Sure, thanks for sorting this out! | 15:00 |
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| mattjarvis | look forward to great work with this WG ! | 15:00 |
| mcunietti | ok noted down | 15:00 |
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| mattjarvis | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 7 15:00:33 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/public_cloud_wg/2016/public_cloud_wg.2016-12-07-14.12.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/public_cloud_wg/2016/public_cloud_wg.2016-12-07-14.12.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/public_cloud_wg/2016/public_cloud_wg.2016-12-07-14.12.log.html | 15:00 |
| rhochmuth | #startmeeting monasca | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 7 15:00:57 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rhochmuth. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: monasca)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'monasca' | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | o/ | 15:01 |
| kamil | o/ | 15:01 |
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| koji | o/ | 15:01 |
| rbak | o/ | 15:01 |
| witek_ | hello | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/monasca-team-meeting-agenda | 15:01 |
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| rhochmuth | Agenda for Wednesday December 7 2016 (15:00 UTC) | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | 1.Grafana branch - merge upstream? | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | 2.Reviews: | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | 1.https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395246/ | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | 2.https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349097 - SAP team would like to contribute | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | 3.https://review.openstack.org/406936, https://review.openstack.org/407371 | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | 4.https://review.openstack.org/407379 | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | 5.https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395897/ | 15:01 |
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| rhochmuth | hi everyone | 15:01 |
| hosanai | o/ | 15:01 |
| rhochmuth | it is really cold and snowing here | 15:01 |
| qwebirc30600 | 0/ | 15:02 |
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| qwebirc30600 | where? | 15:02 |
| witek_ | nice | 15:02 |
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| kamil | fridge opened? | 15:02 |
| rhochmuth | Fort Collins, CO | 15:02 |
| qwebirc30600 | o | 15:02 |
| rhochmuth | let's get started with the agenda first | 15:02 |
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| rhochmuth | #topic Grafana branch - merge upstream? | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grafana branch - merge upstream? (Meeting topic: monasca)" | 15:03 | |
| rbak | That's me | 15:03 |
| rhochmuth | please proceed | 15:03 |
| rbak | Raintank, the owner's of Grafana have been fairly silent lately | 15:03 |
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| rhochmuth | uhh, ohhh | 15:03 |
| rbak | We're not sure that our original plan of brining them on as vendors for Charter is going to work | 15:04 |
| rbak | And our fork of Grafana is slowing getting more complex and harder to merge in. | 15:04 |
| rhochmuth | do you think that they are having financial problems | 15:04 |
| rhochmuth | or just not interested in what we are doing | 15:05 |
| rhochmuth | or other priorities | 15:05 |
| rbak | Just not interested | 15:05 |
| rbak | That's probably more accurate | 15:05 |
| rbak | So we either need to make a push as a community to get the keystone changes moved into upstream, or we need to resign ourselves to maintaining a permanent fork again. | 15:05 |
| rhochmuth | i thought you guys were going to put a support agreement or licensing in-place | 15:05 |
| rhochmuth | that would have incenticized them enough | 15:06 |
| rbak | We're still trying, but they stopped replying. | 15:06 |
| rbak | The difficulties with the merger may have scared them off | 15:06 |
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| rhochmuth | i see | 15:06 |
| rbak | So it's a question of whether we can rally enough support | 15:07 |
| rbak | I can put up a new pull request | 15:07 |
| rhochmuth | ok | 15:07 |
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| rhochmuth | are we just supposed to thumbs up it at that point | 15:07 |
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| rhochmuth | what does support mean from your viewpoint? | 15:08 |
| rbak | Thumbs up would be good | 15:08 |
| rbak | I also plan on emailing them directly. | 15:08 |
| rhochmuth | ok, we can do that | 15:08 |
| rhochmuth | ok | 15:08 |
| rbak | If anyone wants to be included on that let me know | 15:08 |
| rhochmuth | i can contact them also | 15:08 |
| rhochmuth | please include me | 15:08 |
| rbak | will do | 15:08 |
| rhochmuth | are you talking to raj dutt | 15:08 |
| rhochmuth | i think that is the name | 15:08 |
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| rhochmuth | it has been a while | 15:08 |
| rbak | Yeah, him and Torkel if I can dig out his email. | 15:09 |
| rhochmuth | with more and more folks using monasca, i'm hoping they would be interested | 15:09 |
| rhochmuth | there are potential support/service agreements they could get as a result | 15:09 |
| rbak | That and the fact that the changes we want are actually keystone specific, so in theory it could be used with any openstack projects, or just Grafana as a service. | 15:10 |
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| rhochmuth | but, there is a lot of momentum around some other tools, like promethues and influxdb, that is probably distractign them | 15:10 |
| rbak | Well, they just released Grafana 4, so hopefully this is a good time, while they're still planning for the next version. | 15:11 |
| rhochmuth | yes, i agree, i would expect some interest on their part | 15:11 |
| rhochmuth | so, now that 4 is out, are you going to look at adding alerts? | 15:11 |
| rhochmuth | :-) | 15:11 |
| rbak | We're going to look into it, yes | 15:11 |
| rhochmuth | thanks | 15:11 |
| rhochmuth | we've been using grafana a lot internally lately, and it is working great | 15:12 |
| rbak | Good to hear | 15:12 |
| rhochmuth | we had some very impressive demos this week with kubernetes | 15:12 |
| rhochmuth | and monasca | 15:12 |
| rbak | That's all I had on this subject. I'll put up a new pull request and bring that up at the meeting next week. | 15:12 |
| rhochmuth | i'm wondering if we should get a higher level business call together with raintank between allthe interested companies | 15:13 |
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| rhochmuth | charter, hpe, fujitsu, …, | 15:13 |
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| rbak | I would be up for that. | 15:13 |
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| rbak | I'll suggest that in my email | 15:13 |
| witek_ | you have our support too | 15:13 |
| rhochmuth | yes, please do | 15:13 |
| rhochmuth | i think they should understand the momentum and business opportunity better | 15:14 |
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| rhochmuth | maybe we should get and email out to openstack-dev list as well | 15:14 |
| rhochmuth | there are other companies involved in deploying monasca these days that we could also lobby | 15:14 |
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| rhochmuth | invariably, it is going to be about the money i guess | 15:15 |
| rhochmuth | or the perceived opportunity | 15:15 |
| rbak | Probably, but they are open source, and did tell us they were interested even without a contract when we talk initially. | 15:15 |
| rhochmuth | ok, let's see what happens with the email | 15:16 |
| rbak | Sounds good. I'll include you on that. | 15:16 |
| rhochmuth | and then maybe we can rally the troops | 15:16 |
| rhochmuth | thanks rbak | 15:16 |
| rhochmuth | good update | 15:16 |
| rhochmuth | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395246/ | 15:16 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395246/ (Meeting topic: monasca)" | 15:17 | |
| rbak | That one is also mine | 15:17 |
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| rbak | Just wondering if it can be merged | 15:17 |
| rbak | It's been around a couple weeks with some +1s | 15:17 |
| rhochmuth | i +1'd again this morning, but yes i think it is ready | 15:17 |
| rhochmuth | you should probably ping craig | 15:18 |
| rhochmuth | as he spotted a couple of issues | 15:18 |
| rbak | Alright, I can get him to look at it | 15:18 |
| rhochmuth | but he hasn't looked at it again since your latest fixes/reviews | 15:18 |
| rhochmuth | assuming he is ok, then it could be merged | 15:19 |
| rbak | Sounds good. I'll ping him | 15:19 |
| rhochmuth | thx | 15:19 |
| rhochmuth | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349097 | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349097 (Meeting topic: monasca)" | 15:19 | |
| rhochmuth | sap, jbors u there? | 15:19 |
| jobrs | yep | 15:20 |
| jobrs | we are willing to help. | 15:20 |
| rhochmuth | thanks | 15:20 |
| jobrs | and we are working on some complementary stuff | 15:20 |
| rhochmuth | so, do you want to take on this review | 15:20 |
| rhochmuth | i don't think haneef is working on it anymore | 15:20 |
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| rhochmuth | and was just waiting to merge it | 15:20 |
| rhochmuth | i had signed off on it | 15:20 |
| jobrs | sure | 15:21 |
| rhochmuth | thanks | 15:21 |
| dhague | sorry, late to the topic and just catching up on the discussion so far - all sounds good to me. We need to get some kind of response from raintank, even if it's jsut to get an answer one way or the other | 15:21 |
| jobrs | we want to add notification templates for slack and mail since this is what we are using | 15:21 |
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| rhochmuth | dhague: yes, i agree | 15:21 |
| dhague | ... and I just noticed the topic change. sorry 'bout that | 15:21 |
| rhochmuth | rbak: please add dhague and jbors to email list, i'm assuming | 15:22 |
| rbak | will do | 15:22 |
| rhochmuth | email list to raintank that is | 15:22 |
| jobrs | thanks | 15:22 |
| dhague | +1 | 15:22 |
| rhochmuth | ok, np on topic change | 15:22 |
| rhochmuth | so, i'm assuming dhague will take over the custom formatting for the hipchat plugin | 15:23 |
| rhochmuth | you had also fixed the slack plugin recently too | 15:23 |
| dhague | on the new topic, I am looking at that - in fact, having some kind of per-channel templating | 15:23 |
| dhague | the idea is this: | 15:24 |
| dhague | alarm definition "description" field will be a jinja template, so we can generate some kind of human-readable alert message | 15:24 |
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| bklei | question on the hipchat plugin formatting | 15:24 |
| dhague | then at the channel level that can be fed into another template - pretty raw for hipchat & slack, but email would allow HTML headers etc | 15:25 |
| bklei | will this patch let us change msg color based on alarm severity? | 15:25 |
| seanhandley | Oh, the public cloud meeting's over | 15:25 |
| seanhandley | :( | 15:25 |
| jobrs | that will be possible | 15:25 |
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| jobrs | jinja2 has primitives like if and for etc. | 15:26 |
| bklei | excellent -- it's goofy that everything is green today | 15:26 |
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| jobrs | the redesign has two parts | 15:26 |
| dhague | jobrs and I had a brainstorming on this yesterday, the above is the brief summary of what we discussed - is it OK with everyone? | 15:27 |
| dhague | I will let jobrs continue... | 15:27 |
| jobrs | just wanted to add what I discovered today | 15:27 |
| jobrs | so part one is just in notification: templates for formatting notification messages | 15:27 |
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| jobrs | part two is more tricky: have the monasca-api pass the alarm-definition's description alongside the alarm (not just the name) | 15:28 |
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| bklei | that's not there already? | 15:29 |
| jobrs | so we would need some support in reviewing the API changes and someone who would do the Java side of it | 15:29 |
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| rhochmuth | why do you need the description in the alarm? | 15:29 |
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| rhochmuth | can't you get that by querying the db? | 15:30 |
| rhochmuth | not sure i understand the proposal | 15:30 |
| bklei | having the alarm definition description in the alarm is useful -- we use it for runbook links for oncall | 15:30 |
| jobrs | the description is what matters most to the user (imho) | 15:31 |
| bklei | but i believe it's already there -- this is from the current hipchat plugin: | 15:31 |
| bklei |    "old_state": "UNDETERMINED", | 15:31 |
| bklei |    "alarm_description": "The http response time is greater than 3s on avg", | 15:31 |
| bklei |    "message": "Thresholds were exceeded for the sub-alarms: avg(soapuiv2MonascaTesterMetric{hostname=dnvrco02-keystone-001}) > 3.0 with the values: [4.6218046456454775]", | 15:31 |
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| jobrs | it is in the notifications, but not the alarms. when you display the alarm in a UI it would be good to have the description of it | 15:31 |
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| bklei | aah. i see. | 15:32 |
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| rhochmuth | but, that could be done with mutiple queries | 15:32 |
| rhochmuth | get alarm, then get alarm definition | 15:33 |
| jobrs | if you have a templated alarm description and you can render it using the alarm attributes, then you can have quite instructive alarms | 15:33 |
| rhochmuth | then merge the two | 15:33 |
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| jobrs | slow | 15:33 |
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| jobrs | you did the job already for the alarm-description-name | 15:33 |
| rhochmuth | ok | 15:34 |
| rhochmuth | interesting, that we didn't see that through | 15:34 |
| rhochmuth | so, when you query an alarm, you would also return the description in the json body? | 15:34 |
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| jobrs | yes, and I would do the template rendering in the monasca-client | 15:35 |
| rhochmuth | so, how would the monasca-client know how to render it? | 15:36 |
| rhochmuth | the custom formatting is for the notifications | 15:36 |
| jobrs | that is what I mean with two parts. One thing is to have descriptions with variables. the other is to have proper presentation for your notification channel | 15:37 |
| jobrs | we believe you need both to have actionable alarms | 15:37 |
| rhochmuth | ok | 15:38 |
| rhochmuth | not sure i'm grokking the full extent of the changes | 15:39 |
| jobrs | it should be non-breaking | 15:39 |
| rhochmuth | good enough for me | 15:39 |
| rhochmuth | :-) | 15:39 |
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| dhague | We can discuss the fine details in the code review :-) | 15:40 |
| rhochmuth | sounds good | 15:40 |
| jobrs | let's do so | 15:40 |
| rhochmuth | so, at this point i please proceed, and we can discuss more in the code review | 15:41 |
| jobrs | last question - can we use the change for further developments or created a separate one? | 15:41 |
| rhochmuth | sure, you can use that review | 15:42 |
| rhochmuth | i think that is the best option | 15:42 |
| jobrs | great, I hope we can deliver the first proposal next week | 15:42 |
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| rhochmuth | thanks | 15:42 |
| rhochmuth | #topic https://review.openstack.org/406936, https://review.openstack.org/407371 | 15:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/406936, https://review.openstack.org/407371 (Meeting topic: monasca)" | 15:43 | |
| rhochmuth | yingjun: you there? | 15:44 |
| yingjun | yep | 15:45 |
| rhochmuth | you are up | 15:45 |
| rhochmuth | Fix UnicodeEncodeError for alarm definition | 15:45 |
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| yingjun | so as the bug reported, when i input Chinese in description, it will raise the UnicodeEncodeError | 15:46 |
| rhochmuth | i thought we could encode/decode utf8 | 15:47 |
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| rhochmuth | so, i'm a bit confused by the fix and why it was necessary | 15:48 |
| witek_ | yingjun: could you add that case to the tests? | 15:48 |
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| yingjun | witek_, sure | 15:48 |
| rhochmuth | shouldn't decode(('utf8') work for both chineese and other strings | 15:49 |
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| rhochmuth | what you are doing now is not decoding the string if it is six.text_type | 15:50 |
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| yingjun | yes | 15:50 |
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| yingjun | i’m not sure if there’s case it wasn’t text_type | 15:51 |
| rhochmuth | yes, i'm wondering why the data isnn't stored as text_type | 15:52 |
| rhochmuth | i'm wondering if bad data got in the db | 15:53 |
| rhochmuth | should we have converted it when storing the description | 15:53 |
| rhochmuth | it sounds to me that it wasn't converted when we stored it | 15:53 |
| yingjun | the case https://github.com/openstack/monasca-api/blob/master/monasca_api/tests/test_alarms.py#L504 do | 15:53 |
| yingjun | but it mocks the db return value | 15:54 |
| rhochmuth | ok, i'll look at it more | 15:55 |
| rhochmuth | i obviousely am missing some bit of understanding | 15:55 |
| rhochmuth | ill add comments to the review | 15:55 |
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| yingjun | ok | 15:55 |
| witek_ | have you checked that your db has utf8 encoding? | 15:55 |
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| yingjun | witek_, not yet | 15:56 |
| yingjun | witek_, i will check that tomorrow, it pretty late here in China... | 15:56 |
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| yingjun | witek_, and the test env not in my laptop | 15:57 |
| rhochmuth | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407379/ | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407379/ (Meeting topic: monasca)" | 15:57 | |
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| rhochmuth | looks like joe merged that one this morning | 15:57 |
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| rhochmuth | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395897/ | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395897/ (Meeting topic: monasca)" | 15:58 | |
| rhochmuth | i think we are going to run out of time to discuss this one | 15:58 |
| yingjun | ;( | 15:58 |
| rhochmuth | i'll try and look at it more | 15:58 |
| yingjun | rhochmuth, thanks | 15:59 |
| rhochmuth | tomasz seems to think it was the right direction too | 15:59 |
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| rhochmuth | he should probably be pinged again on this one | 15:59 |
| rhochmuth | so, i need to close out the meeting again | 15:59 |
| rhochmuth | one hour just isn't enough some days | 15:59 |
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| rhochmuth | thanks everyone | 16:00 |
| dhague | thanks | 16:00 |
| qwebirc30600 | thanks | 16:00 |
| rhochmuth | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 7 16:00:26 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/monasca/2016/monasca.2016-12-07-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/monasca/2016/monasca.2016-12-07-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/monasca/2016/monasca.2016-12-07-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| markvoelker | #startmeeting defcore | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 7 16:01:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markvoelker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 16:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'defcore' | 16:01 |
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| eglute | o/ | 16:01 |
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| markvoelker | #chair eglute hogepodge | 16:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: eglute hogepodge markvoelker | 16:01 |
| catherineD | o/ | 16:01 |
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| hogepodge | o/ | 16:01 |
| markvoelker | #link Today's agenda https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreRoble.5 | 16:01 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 16:01 |
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| shamail | hi | 16:02 |
| markvoelker | hi folks. Let's jump right in... | 16:02 |
| markvoelker | #topic PTG | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 16:02 | |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: any updates on meeting space? | 16:03 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: yes, catherineD through refstack has secured two days of meeting space for us | 16:03 |
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| markvoelker | excellent, thanks catherineD | 16:04 |
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| markvoelker | #info meeting at PTG is on | 16:04 |
| hogepodge | It is officially ok for us to use that space along with the refstack project | 16:04 |
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| eglute | do we know which days? | 16:04 |
| hogepodge | I think the first two days, but catherineD can confirm. | 16:05 |
| eglute | yes, i see it on the website | 16:05 |
| eglute | https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 16:05 |
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| hogepodge | We're even on the schedule. :-D | 16:05 |
| catherineD | Monday and Tuesday | 16:06 |
| eglute | thank you catherineD! | 16:06 |
| eglute | do we know how the space will work? | 16:06 |
| hogepodge | #info PTG Monday and Tuesday February 20-21 | 16:06 |
| eglute | are we going to have one room for us and refstack, or? | 16:06 |
| hogepodge | #link https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 16:06 |
| shamail | The first two days are focused on cross project needs | 16:06 |
| catherineD | yes one room for both days | 16:06 |
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| eglute | thanks catherineD | 16:07 |
| markvoelker | catherineD: ok, so sounds like we'll need to work out some kind of agenda so we're not stepping all over each other. =) | 16:07 |
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| markvoelker | Is there a tentative schedule for refstack yet? | 16:08 |
| catherineD | yea, but mostly willl be Interop WG meeting just like the meet term we had before | 16:08 |
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| markvoelker | ok, so I guess eglute and you and I should circle up and hash out a tentative agenda then. Shall we start an etherpad for topics? | 16:10 |
| eglute | yes, lets do that | 16:10 |
| * shamail cant't make it since kids are off that week | 16:10 | |
| markvoelker | Ok, eglute would you mind setting one up and sending it to the ML's | 16:10 |
| markvoelker | shamail: bummer =/ | 16:10 |
| shamail | I know :( | 16:10 |
| eglute | #action eglute start etherpad with agenda for PTG and send it out to ML | 16:11 |
| catherineD | because most of the cores from the RefStack team won't be at PTG | 16:11 |
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| markvoelker | #action eglute to start PTG agenda etherpad and post to ML | 16:11 |
| markvoelker | Anythign else on PTG before we move on? | 16:12 |
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| markvoelker | hearing none.... | 16:12 |
| markvoelker | #topic 2017.01 | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "2017.01 (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 16:12 | |
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| markvoelker | First up: cinder | 16:12 |
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| shamail | I looked at the etherpad last night to start working on cinder but got a little stuck | 16:13 |
| shamail | I think we want to add all V3 as advisory but reference the V2 tests (which are the same ones referenced by the approved capabilities)? | 16:13 |
| markvoelker | shamail: ? | 16:14 |
| shamail | Is that correct? | 16:14 |
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| shamail | The other dilemma is that cinder does have a list API versions call but there is no test for it | 16:14 |
| hogepodge | That sounds correct to me, since v3 is the equivalent of nova v2.1 in microversion intent | 16:15 |
| markvoelker | Shamail: Yeah, I think the general idea is to put v3 into advisory as long as the same tests work. | 16:15 |
| shamail | So we're okay with referencing the same ID idempotent ID? | 16:15 |
| markvoelker | yup | 16:15 |
| hogepodge | shamail: sounds like we should write a test for it in the next month. My suggestion is to add the capability section as a placeholder until the test is written | 16:15 |
| shamail | Okay, thanks. | 16:15 |
| markvoelker | For the version list thing: I've written a couple of those tests now, seems like something I can add to my plate. | 16:16 |
| markvoelker | Likely not in time for this round of scoring, but... | 16:16 |
| shamail | So my actions are create cinder V3 as advisory and add list apis as advisory but no test definition yet? | 16:16 |
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| markvoelker | I'd go ahead and add version-list to the scoring sheet and note that no test currently exists for it. | 16:17 |
| shamail | V3 will also probably not pass scoring since most/all SDKs are still using V2 | 16:17 |
| markvoelker | If me or someone else can create one in time we can consider adding it. | 16:17 |
| shamail | But I'll score it as well | 16:17 |
| shamail | Okay, sounds good | 16:17 |
| markvoelker | If not, it'll be a note in the scoring sheet for next time so we can re-eval then | 16:17 |
| shamail | I'll knock that one out tonight | 16:18 |
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| markvoelker | Ok, on to Swift then? Anything else on cinder? | 16:18 |
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| shamail | That's all for cinder until next week | 16:18 |
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| eglute | Thanks for reviewing Swift Mark! I will update it today | 16:19 |
| markvoelker | Ok, eglute? Swift updates? | 16:19 |
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| markvoelker | Sure. Sorry that took so long. | 16:19 |
| eglute | thank you for reviewing! | 16:19 |
| eglute | i think i need to do another PR for just updated tests | 16:20 |
| eglute | but i wonder if that is better for the next cycle | 16:20 |
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| eglute | since that would be a lot of tests to review | 16:20 |
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| markvoelker | ok. I'll just note that we're running really low on time since January is right aroudn the corner, so the sooner the better (esp. for stuff that may take a while). | 16:21 |
| markvoelker | anything else on swift? | 16:22 |
| eglute | not at the moment | 16:23 |
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| hogepodge | On the time note, for scheduling | 16:23 |
| hogepodge | #info Next is Board meeting January 28, 12:00pm-2:00pm Pacific Conference Call | 16:23 |
| markvoelker | ok, moving on to Nova. Shamail has a patch up for this | 16:23 |
| hogepodge | Ack, wrong date, that's last year | 16:23 |
| hogepodge | ignore that | 16:23 |
| markvoelker | #link Nova patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385781/6 | 16:23 |
| shamail | Yes, I moved the new capabilities to advisory. | 16:23 |
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| markvoelker | Cool, thanks. There was something with the suspend/resume tests I wanted to check into, but I think this getting close | 16:24 |
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| shamail | Okay, please let me know if I need to follow-up on anything. | 16:25 |
| eglute | January Board meeting will most likely be on January 31st. | 16:25 |
| shamail | I also rebased the changer | 16:25 |
| markvoelker | This could use some more eyeballs from other folks, so please take a look | 16:25 |
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| Rockyg | link? | 16:26 |
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| hogepodge | eglute: yes, late january is the proposed date | 16:26 |
| markvoelker | Rockyg: see above. =) | 16:26 |
| hogepodge | #info Jan 31, 1 -3pm pacific | 16:26 |
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| markvoelker | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385781/6 | 16:26 |
| Rockyg | oh. oops. Thanks. | 16:26 |
| markvoelker | Ok, anything further on nova? | 16:27 |
| markvoelker | Keystone and Glance patches are landed, so we're good there. | 16:27 |
| markvoelker | While we're discussing reviews, I'll just note that there are a couple of patches out for aliasing and flagging existing stuff | 16:28 |
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| markvoelker | eglute: I think you Workflow+1'd one of them but it hasn't merged yet? | 16:28 |
| eglute | hm, let me see | 16:28 |
| markvoelker | eglute: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405048/ | 16:28 |
| markvoelker | may need a recheck (and a +2 from you while you're at it =) | 16:29 |
| markvoelker | The other one is: | 16:29 |
| markvoelker | #link Alias patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405039/ | 16:29 |
| markvoelker | Which LGTM but needs another review or two | 16:29 |
| eglute | looks good to me, I can move it later after others have a chance to look | 16:30 |
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| shamail | Will review today | 16:30 |
| eglute | thanks luzC and shamail! | 16:30 |
| markvoelker | It's a pretty simple change so should be quick. | 16:31 |
| markvoelker | Ok, monving on to the name change | 16:31 |
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| markvoelker | Shamail: I see you got the wiki moved over | 16:31 |
| shamail | Yes sir | 16:31 |
| markvoelker | I think it's time to pull the trigger on deleting the old #openstack-defcore channel. What do folks think? We've been warning about it for weeks... | 16:31 |
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| shamail | All the links I checked worked, but if we notice any issues please let me know | 16:32 |
| markvoelker | (months?) | 16:32 |
| Rockyg | ++ good job! | 16:32 |
| eglute | i think closing the other channel is fine! | 16:32 |
| Rockyg | any idea how much traffic it's getting? | 16:32 |
| eglute | We also need to send out official announcement telling people to move | 16:32 |
| shamail | Now that we have the wiki moved, is it okay if we change the eavesdrop listing? | 16:32 |
| eglute | IRC channel? about zero traffic | 16:32 |
| eglute | shamail yes please | 16:33 |
| shamail | We can stay with the same meeting ID for now to keep the same logs or change it to 'interop' and add a pointer to the old DefCore logs in the wiki. Thoughts? | 16:33 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. just checked the channel. Mostly the veterans who are just there in case | 16:34 |
| markvoelker | Shamail: I'd be inclined to go ahead and make the change. | 16:34 |
| markvoelker | (and add pointer in wiki) | 16:34 |
| Rockyg | Agree. | 16:34 |
| hogepodge | I'm waiting on infra to approve the new mailing list. I pinged them on it this morning. | 16:34 |
| shamail | markvoelker: +1, we'll have to do it sooner orblater | 16:34 |
| shamail | Can you please assign the action to update eavesdrop so I remember? | 16:35 |
| hogepodge | #link New Mailing List review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404921/ | 16:35 |
| markvoelker | shamail: oh, actually I thnk I wrote the eavesdrop change before remembering you had that AI. =) | 16:35 |
| markvoelker | I'll go ahead and push it this afternoon if that makes life easier on you. =) | 16:35 |
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| shamail | Perfect | 16:35 |
| markvoelker | #action markvoelker push eavesdrop patch to update meeting name | 16:36 |
| eglute | hogepodge once the mailing list is created, we can send out official announcment | 16:36 |
| shamail | Make sure you update the wiki location in eavesdrop | 16:36 |
| hogepodge | shamail: yeah, the openstack bot it out of there | 16:36 |
| markvoelker | shamail: will do | 16:36 |
| markvoelker | #action markvoelker update meeting info in wiki once patch lands | 16:36 |
| eglute | lets not shut down current ML until official announcement goes out | 16:36 |
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| hogepodge | once the new ML is up I'll send the announcement alerting people to move over, then shut down the list so no new messages can reach it. | 16:37 |
| hogepodge | just waiting on infra now | 16:37 |
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| markvoelker | sounds like a plan. | 16:37 |
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| markvoelker | The other action related to this on my plate is updting https://review.openstack.org/#/c/327086/ which I'm about 50% done with. | 16:37 |
| shamail | Awesome | 16:37 |
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| markvoelker | We also wanted to get repo names updates, but I sorta felt like it would be best to land that patch first | 16:39 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 16:40 |
| eglute | agree | 16:40 |
| markvoelker | ok, anything else we need to talk about on this topic today? | 16:40 |
| markvoelker | Ok, moving on | 16:41 |
| markvoelker | #topic documenting how projects can become part of Guidelines | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "documenting how projects can become part of Guidelines (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 16:41 | |
| markvoelker | eglute: I just realized I had an AI to send you some notes I'd started drafting on that, which I totally forgot to do | 16:41 |
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| markvoelker | I'll get those over to you after linch | 16:41 |
| markvoelker | *lunch | 16:41 |
| eglute | markvoelker it is ok! i was swamped last week | 16:42 |
| eglute | thank you markvoelker ! | 16:42 |
| markvoelker | And with that we're at open discussion... | 16:42 |
| markvoelker | #topic open floor | 16:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open floor (Meeting topic: defcore)" | 16:42 | |
| eglute | I created etherpad for PTG: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/InteropWGAtlantaPTG | 16:42 |
| markvoelker | eglute: thanks | 16:42 |
| eglute | please let us know if you are planning to attend | 16:42 |
| eglute | and propose topics for PTG. | 16:43 |
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| shamail | Do we see DefCore playing a role in the strategic OpenStack futures discussion? | 16:43 |
| eglute | we will plan our agenda around it | 16:43 |
| eglute | shamail good question | 16:43 |
| shamail | Do things like scenario tests, discoverability, etc. need to be noted in that convo | 16:43 |
| eglute | i think so | 16:43 |
| markvoelker | shamail: not sure if everyone is even quite aware of that discussion at the past couple of Board meetings...if not, a good primer: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-strategic-review-board | 16:44 |
| shamail | Discoverability should be there and strategically we should ask better collaboration on interoperability in general to achieve a "one global Cloud" feel as described in "one platform" | 16:45 |
| eglute | also blog post by Mark McLoughlin: https://crustyblaa.com/december-6-openstack-foundation-board-meeting.html | 16:45 |
| eglute | shamail good points | 16:45 |
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| markvoelker | shamail: I think some of those things will be reflected in some of the responses to the "12 questions" exercise too. | 16:46 |
| markvoelker | Or at least I know they will for at least one response. =p | 16:46 |
| shamail | I defer to y'all to determine the right time since the conversation is still high-level for now... we would just want to raise interoperability as a concern before it becomes too low-level based on next steps | 16:46 |
| shamail | LOL, make that TWO responses :) | 16:47 |
| eglute | shamail i agree | 16:47 |
| markvoelker | Note also that DefCore was called out specifically in the etherpad there a couple of times, so folks are thinking about how we fit into that picture | 16:47 |
| eglute | the full discussion on this will be during the next in person board meeting | 16:47 |
| shamail | markvoelker: +1 | 16:47 |
| markvoelker | eglute: remind me, did they decide to try to do that in person at the PTG with the TC? | 16:47 |
| eglute | tentatively, it is scheduled for February 24th in Atlanta | 16:47 |
| markvoelker | Or was that still just a proposal? | 16:47 |
| markvoelker | ok | 16:47 |
| shamail | They will be following up to see if it works for them/when | 16:48 |
| shamail | Ah nice | 16:48 |
| shamail | That was fast | 16:48 |
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| Rockyg | The tc just let everyone know the board might wwant to meet with them at PYG | 16:49 |
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| Rockyg | The response was "not during the normal days of ptg | 16:50 |
| eglute | well, normal ptg is monday-thursday i think | 16:50 |
| eglute | and the board meeting on Friday | 16:50 |
| Rockyg | Though maybe part of Friday. | 16:50 |
| eglute | Rockyg where are you seeing this? | 16:50 |
| Rockyg | the TC meeting yesterday. | 16:51 |
| eglute | Rockyg thanks! | 16:51 |
| Rockyg | check the meeting logs. very near the end. | 16:51 |
| eglute | Rockyg will do! | 16:51 |
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| Rockyg | Yeah. We need to tag team here to cover all angles ;-) | 16:52 |
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| eglute | :) | 16:52 |
| markvoelker | ok, anything else today folks? | 16:53 |
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| eglute | we can finish early! | 16:53 |
| markvoelker | hearing nothing, I think we can close up for the day | 16:53 |
| eglute | :D | 16:53 |
| eglute | thank you markvoelker! | 16:54 |
| markvoelker | Thanks everyone! | 16:54 |
| markvoelker | #endmeeting | 16:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 7 16:54:06 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2016/defcore.2016-12-07-16.01.html | 16:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2016/defcore.2016-12-07-16.01.txt | 16:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2016/defcore.2016-12-07-16.01.log.html | 16:54 |
| Rockyg | thanks! | 16:54 |
| shamail | Bye! | 16:54 |
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| catherineD | bye | 16:54 |
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| dansmith | #startmeeting nova_cells | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 7 17:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dansmith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_cells' | 17:00 |
| dansmith | lettuce do this, and do it quick | 17:00 |
| melwitt | o/ | 17:00 |
| dtp | o/ | 17:00 |
| dansmith | #topic reviewage | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviewage (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:00 | |
| dansmith | my set is starting to come together and a few things have landed | 17:01 |
| dansmith | so that's good for me | 17:01 |
| dansmith | melwitt: are there any quota patches up that people need to look at? | 17:01 |
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| melwitt | not yet, no | 17:01 |
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| dansmith | okay | 17:02 |
| dansmith | any other review things we should be looking at? | 17:02 |
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| melwitt | not that I know of | 17:02 |
| dansmith | me either | 17:02 |
| dansmith | I guess I skipped over: | 17:02 |
| dansmith | #topic testing/bugs | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testing/bugs (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:03 | |
| dansmith | nothing here that I know of either | 17:03 |
| melwitt | me neither | 17:03 |
| dansmith | #topic open discusheyohn | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discusheyohn (Meeting topic: nova_cells)" | 17:03 | |
| dansmith | melwitt: you had a todo for the console stuff | 17:03 |
| melwitt | nice spelling | 17:03 |
| melwitt | that's right, I did my consoleauth homework | 17:04 |
| melwitt | I put the notes here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-multiple-cells | 17:04 |
| melwitt | basically I think we will have to just change the deploy assumption to run consoleauth per cell instead of at the top | 17:04 |
| melwitt | and then add message queue switching calls to the consoleauth rpcapi, which I can do | 17:05 |
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| dansmith | okay that sounds ideal and very cells-ish | 17:05 |
| dansmith | cellsv2-ish I mean | 17:05 |
| dansmith | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-multiple-cells | 17:05 |
| melwitt | this is what we need to do until the tokens in db thing, so when we have that later on we revisit | 17:05 |
| dansmith | #info consoleauth will be per-cell and require just a little wiring to make sure api calls the right one | 17:06 |
| dansmith | yeah, cool | 17:06 |
| melwitt | that is, some day we won't need the consoleauth service at all, IIUC | 17:06 |
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| dansmith | yeah | 17:06 |
| dansmith | okay sweet | 17:06 |
| dansmith | anything else for open discussion? | 17:07 |
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| dtp | hi, im' dan | 17:07 |
| dtp | if there's something small i can help with, i'd like to | 17:07 |
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| dansmith | dtp: I thought you were an op type person, but you mean help with code yes? | 17:08 |
| dtp | i have basically no experience, except i did write an internal patch in cells v1 to allow a sync of a single instance from compute to api cell | 17:08 |
| dtp | yes | 17:08 |
| dtp | code | 17:08 |
| dansmith | cool | 17:08 |
| dansmith | maybe the consoleauth wiring through rpcapi? melwitt that should be pretty simple and following the pattern for compute right? | 17:08 |
| melwitt | yeah, that should be a small change | 17:09 |
| dansmith | dtp: do you have access to test hardware? because RSN the bigger deal is going to be trying things with two cells and seeing what breaks | 17:09 |
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| dtp | i will have to ask about that | 17:09 |
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| dansmith | dtp: okay -- are you interested in doing that consoleauth change? I mean, if melwitt is willing to let it go.. | 17:10 |
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| melwitt | yes, if you'd like to do that one, feel free | 17:10 |
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| dtp | sure | 17:11 |
| dansmith | dtp: this: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/consoleauth/rpcapi.py#L74 | 17:11 |
| dansmith | dtp: needs to do cell switching like you see in compute/rpcapi.py | 17:11 |
| dtp | cool, thanks | 17:12 |
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| melwitt | yeah, the ClientRouter and by_instance | 17:12 |
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| dansmith | dtp: the future of nova now depends on you. don't let us down. | 17:12 |
| dtp | oh lordy | 17:13 |
| dtp | :D | 17:13 |
| dansmith | heh | 17:13 |
| dansmith | okay anything else? | 17:13 |
| melwitt | haha | 17:13 |
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| dansmith | okay then | 17:14 |
| dansmith | thanks | 17:14 |
| dansmith | #endmeeting | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:14 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 7 17:14:33 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:14 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2016/nova_cells.2016-12-07-17.00.html | 17:14 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2016/nova_cells.2016-12-07-17.00.txt | 17:14 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_cells/2016/nova_cells.2016-12-07-17.00.log.html | 17:14 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | #startmeeting horizon | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 7 20:00:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is r1chardj0n3s. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 20:00 |
| ediardo | o/ | 20:00 |
| r1chardj0n3s | o/ | 20:00 |
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| lcastell | o/ | 20:00 |
| rhagarty_ | 0/ | 20:01 |
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| ducttape_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| r1chardj0n3s | so, Ocata-2 is next week (ohmygosh) | 20:01 |
| r1chardj0n3s | #topic Priority patches for review | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority patches for review (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 20:02 | |
| r1chardj0n3s | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/starredby:r1chardj0n3s%20AND%20status:open now has some angularjs panels listed, will add more | 20:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 20:02 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | I've started adding the priority angularjs panels to that list, and will add some more. Trying to limit it to just the ones that are most likely to be completed in this release. | 20:02 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ie. the ones that have table, create, delete and edit actions at least partially implemented | 20:03 |
| ediardo | Check this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366957/ | 20:03 |
| clu_ | o/ | 20:03 |
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| robcresswell | r1chardj0n3s: Nothing on Users? | 20:03 |
| ducttape_ | ediardo - would like to follow up on that link later | 20:04 |
| r1chardj0n3s | robcresswell: which user patches? | 20:04 |
| robcresswell | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/336394/ | 20:04 |
| robcresswell | Just that I would imagine there is more demand for Users to be functional than Roles, no? | 20:05 |
| rdopiera | o/ | 20:05 |
| ducttape_ | I'd agree that users and projects are more heavily used than roles robcresswell | 20:05 |
| r1chardj0n3s | robcresswell: yep, absolutely. I just somehow didn't see that patch when I skimmed ... will add to the priorities etherpad :/ | 20:05 |
| robcresswell | Cool | 20:06 |
| r1chardj0n3s | starred! | 20:06 |
| robcresswell | There's also a whole instances implementation sat in searchlight ui if someone wants to look at porting that | 20:06 |
| robcresswell | Would also be a good panel to improve *hint hint* | 20:06 |
| robcresswell | :) | 20:06 |
| r1chardj0n3s | agreed | 20:06 |
| r1chardj0n3s | any other users patches i've omitted from the priority list? | 20:07 |
| robcresswell | Not sure atm, I threw a tantrum at everyone using identity-tables blueprint and -1'd them all | 20:07 |
| robcresswell | It had like 100 patches so I've no idea what was relevant | 20:07 |
| r1chardj0n3s | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342170/ perhaps | 20:08 |
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| ducttape_ | I have a cinder patch that is old as dirt, around quotas | 20:08 |
| r1chardj0n3s | and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/361529/ | 20:08 |
| robcresswell | yeah, looks like there are a few on there. Either way, it would be great to focus on getting Users in a good position especially while we have the Keystone meeting each week | 20:09 |
| ducttape_ | but the quota rework is probably the thing to focus on | 20:09 |
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| robcresswell | ducttape_: Yeah, has quota reworks gone stale? Or is that still a thing? | 20:09 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we still need a solution for search-first to replace the user listings in other parts of our UI | 20:09 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I think I was throwing ediardo or lcastell at that problem tho | 20:09 |
| robcresswell | \o/ | 20:10 |
| ediardo | \o/ | 20:10 |
| ducttape_ | quota rework is a thing, just can't get enough time to work on it. welcome any all help | 20:10 |
| clu_ | (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/ng-users exists, so we can link to that instead) | 20:10 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ducttape_: got links? | 20:10 |
| ducttape_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/309204/ is the old one | 20:10 |
| ducttape_ | it is ready for review, could be merged | 20:10 |
| ducttape_ | well, except jenkins, but it is close to done / ready | 20:11 |
| robcresswell | ducttape_: I'm pretty swamped right now, freed myself up and immediately got a ton of work. Plus internally I've got Kubernetes work. My career plan has just become "follow david-lyle" | 20:11 |
| robcresswell | Can review though | 20:11 |
| ducttape_ | k | 20:11 |
| robcresswell | clu_: Thanks for that! | 20:11 |
| ducttape_ | quota rework needs to be rebased and redo all the tests still https://review.openstack.org/#/c/356605/ | 20:11 |
| r1chardj0n3s | if anyone feels like a patch should be priority please let me know even outside of this meeting :-) | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ducttape_: ack | 20:12 |
| r1chardj0n3s | #topic Integration tests are broken, getting no attention at all, and should be removed altogether | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integration tests are broken, getting no attention at all, and should be removed altogether (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 20:12 | |
| r1chardj0n3s | ... discuss | 20:12 |
| ducttape_ | I think the out right broken things have been corrected pretty quickly (in the last few weeks), we have master - 5 days in our lab right now | 20:13 |
| rdopiera | even the simple tests we have are still useful | 20:13 |
| rdopiera | I found a bug with one yesterday | 20:13 |
| rdopiera | the problem is, nobody knows how they work or how to run them locally | 20:14 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we don't have a plan for stability in the gate | 20:14 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we don't have anyone in the community who has fixing them as a priority | 20:14 |
| robcresswell | rdopiera: They've been failing and non-voting for months | 20:14 |
| rdopiera | robcresswell: one is voting | 20:14 |
| r1chardj0n3s | rdopiera: do you mean tempest? | 20:14 |
| lcastell | if they can pass along the knowledge to us, we have some hands available | 20:14 |
| rdopiera | r1chardj0n3s: yes | 20:14 |
| r1chardj0n3s | rdopiera: that's not really a test ;-) it just checks the login screen appears | 20:15 |
| rdopiera | r1chardj0n3s: well, it's a test if it finds bugs, and it found one yesterday | 20:15 |
| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: it does a bit more | 20:15 |
| r1chardj0n3s | it's still worth having, sure | 20:15 |
| david-lyle | it tests that login work | 20:15 |
| rdopiera | david-lyle: by the way, I will ask you for some help with that later | 20:15 |
| rdopiera | david-lyle: if you don't mind | 20:16 |
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| robcresswell | Yeah, it also runs through static collecting and compressing as part of the setup, so settings issues will be caught too. | 20:16 |
| david-lyle | whatever help I can provide | 20:16 |
| r1chardj0n3s | lcastell: perhaps, if we can get you and timur talking | 20:16 |
| rdopiera | r1chardj0n3s: I'd like to try and get that to work | 20:16 |
| lcastell | yep | 20:16 |
| rdopiera | r1chardj0n3s: the non-voting tests, I mean | 20:16 |
| rdopiera | r1chardj0n3s: if I fail, we can revisit the issue | 20:16 |
| r1chardj0n3s | the basic issue though isn't with any specific tests, it's with the fragility of the whole setup | 20:16 |
| ediardo | Yes, let me know , I can help too | 20:17 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we are constantly being broken by some new release of firefox or selenium | 20:17 |
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| david-lyle | or some timeout | 20:17 |
| r1chardj0n3s | or some timeout | 20:17 |
| rdopiera | well, that's modern software development :) | 20:17 |
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| rdopiera | or leftpad.js | 20:17 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | node.js programming language issues don't tend to be the cause of breaking our selenium tests | 20:18 |
| david-lyle | but the noise to signal ratio is much too high for anyone to actually think their new code may have broken something | 20:18 |
| robcresswell | No, this was next level stuff | 20:18 |
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| robcresswell | We had like a 25% pass rate on functioning code before we disabled them | 20:18 |
| robcresswell | and thats when they were "working" | 20:18 |
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| david-lyle | I'd prefer we focused on getting unit tests passing on xenial first | 20:18 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ediardo / lcastell I will put you in touch with timur to discuss a way forward | 20:19 |
| lcastell | sounds good | 20:19 |
| robcresswell | It's pretty cryptic syntax too, which doesnt help a great deal. | 20:19 |
| robcresswell | david-lyle: UTs fail on Xenial? | 20:19 |
| ediardo | ok, ty | 20:19 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: our tests don't pass on xenial?? | 20:19 |
| lcastell | we already talk about it las mid cycle so... | 20:19 |
| tqtran | 0/ sorry im late, just caught up with the script | 20:19 |
| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: nope | 20:20 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: I'm confused, becuase I see tests passing | 20:20 |
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| david-lyle | two failing non-voting runs at the bottom of every patch | 20:20 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: but that's the selenium tests we've been talking about | 20:21 |
| robcresswell | thats the integration tests | 20:21 |
| david-lyle | selenium and integration tests are two very different things | 20:21 |
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| david-lyle | the selenium tests pass generally | 20:21 |
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| david-lyle | not in xenial because the xvfb lib is not installed by default | 20:22 |
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| david-lyle | any more | 20:22 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: that's part of the whole mess of issues around ubuntu breaking selenium with firefox/selenium (And now xvfb) releases that break us, yes | 20:22 |
| david-lyle | oh nevermind | 20:23 |
| robcresswell | Yeah, the xenial issue might be new, but those integration test runs were set to non-voting before that point | 20:23 |
| david-lyle | the tests are different but I didn't see the xenial was integration | 20:23 |
| r1chardj0n3s | sure, the selenium and integration suites are two separate things, but they both *use* selenium and that's the fragility we have | 20:23 |
| robcresswell | right | 20:23 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ok, I'm gonna see if we can get ediardo and lcastell to fix it, working with timur to extract all his knowledge :-) | 20:24 |
| rdopiera | the alternative is to go blind, which is even more fragility | 20:24 |
| r1chardj0n3s | moving on? | 20:24 |
| r1chardj0n3s | (to something much simpler) | 20:24 |
| r1chardj0n3s | #topic Microversion support | 20:24 |
| lcastell | :) | 20:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Microversion support (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 20:24 | |
| david-lyle | personally I think that test suite is a waste of time | 20:24 |
| r1chardj0n3s | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-microversion-support is where we’ve been discussing the approach | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | once it's patched it will break and it's limited in time duration | 20:24 |
| david-lyle | it's half sleep calls | 20:25 |
| robcresswell | rdopiera: Well, they are non-voting, so we are already blind | 20:25 |
| robcresswell | so nothing would change | 20:25 |
| david-lyle | ok done | 20:25 |
| rdopiera | robcresswell: I agree that setting anything to non-voting doesn't make any sense -- just disable it | 20:25 |
| robcresswell | r1chardj0n3s: On microversions, I realised we've gone full circle with the approach now | 20:25 |
| r1chardj0n3s | robcresswell: \o/ | 20:25 |
| tqtran | so... do we have a replacement in mind? or will horizon not be doing tests at all? | 20:26 |
| rdopiera | 3rd system syndrome? | 20:26 |
| david-lyle | tqtran: it's only integration tests | 20:26 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ok, putting microversions discussion on hold | 20:26 |
| robcresswell | tqtran: Well, we need someone to work on it, and noone is | 20:26 |
| r1chardj0n3s | no, no-one has proposed an alternative to selenium tests | 20:26 |
| robcresswell | So... thats kinda all there is to it | 20:26 |
| tqtran | ok thats fair enough, i cant get those to run locally, so testing them was a PITA to begin with | 20:26 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we have to have that level of testing to have confidence, but only if we can make it work | 20:26 |
| david-lyle | selenium works, integration tests use of selenium does not | 20:27 |
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| robcresswell | Right | 20:27 |
| robcresswell | perhaps we should consider more tempest scenarios? | 20:27 |
| david-lyle | I'd prefer that to integration test suite | 20:28 |
| rdopiera | sounds reasonable | 20:28 |
| david-lyle | without massive rework I just don't see the integration tests being useful | 20:28 |
| david-lyle | they've been flaking for 4+ releases | 20:29 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: what is it in our integration / selenium test suite use of selenium that differs from the tempest use of it? | 20:29 |
| david-lyle | that's not going to change with a few days of love | 20:29 |
| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: good question | 20:29 |
| david-lyle | :) | 20:29 |
| david-lyle | The selenium tests are launched the same as any unit test but happen to use selenium | 20:30 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: 'cos if we don't know that then it's pointless moving everything to tempest if it's just going to be as unstable without fixing the root cause | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | well the login test never fails | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | unless it really should :) | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | which is rare | 20:30 |
| robcresswell | r1chardj0n3s: Either way, I think there would be more value in having new people look into other options at this stage. The learning curve with the current setup is quite high | 20:30 |
| robcresswell | Also, I rarely see the tempest test randomly fail :p | 20:31 |
| tqtran | thats because we have like one test in tempest | 20:31 |
| david-lyle | best test ever | 20:31 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we have precisely one test in tempest ;-) | 20:31 |
| david-lyle | a scenario test yes | 20:31 |
| robcresswell | My point was that the setup doesnt collapse | 20:31 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ok, we have a couple of folks who are willing to get up to speed on our setup to try to fix it, can we agree to leave the disucssion until they've had a look at it? | 20:32 |
| david-lyle | people maintain tempest, rolling our own demon spawn testing suite is silly | 20:32 |
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| david-lyle | no | 20:32 |
| robcresswell | And there's likely to be more support on adding tempest tests, that hz integration tests, which has precisely one support person right now | 20:32 |
| david-lyle | you're wasting their time | 20:32 |
| robcresswell | Agree with Dave here | 20:33 |
| david-lyle | I previously was a huge advocate of the integration tests, but the reality has proven it's a lost cause | 20:33 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ok, so delete our current integration and selenium tests and start from scratch | 20:33 |
| robcresswell | Mirantis had half a dozen people on them at the start of last(?) cycle | 20:33 |
| tqtran | +1 | 20:33 |
| david-lyle | that work started before either of you even started on horizon and they have never been stable for any duration | 20:33 |
| david-lyle | selenium is different | 20:34 |
| tqtran | scrap it and start new, i like that plan | 20:34 |
| david-lyle | don't conflate the two | 20:34 |
| robcresswell | tqtran: >.< | 20:34 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: aren't we the only consumers of selenium in tempest? | 20:34 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: the integration tests and selenium tests in our code use the same testing framework | 20:34 |
| david-lyle | but one is stable and one is not | 20:35 |
| r1chardj0n3s | becase? | 20:35 |
| david-lyle | plus we have unit tests that run in selenium and those don't fail either | 20:35 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yep | 20:35 |
| david-lyle | removing integration tests will effect sahara | 20:35 |
| david-lyle | I think they have one or two | 20:35 |
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| david-lyle | unless they have removed them already | 20:36 |
| david-lyle | so our Selenium tests in the unit tests will hit mocked API calls | 20:37 |
| david-lyle | the tempest one should hit a devstack instance | 20:37 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yes | 20:37 |
| david-lyle | tempest and integration are the closest parallel | 20:37 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ok, so it sounds like there's general enthusiasm for deleting that set of deck chairs and creating some new tempest ones :-) | 20:38 |
| robcresswell | At the very least, have a look at tempest before throwing bodies at the current build. | 20:38 |
| tqtran | question, so if we go down the tempest route, are we going to bring selenium with us? or will tempest provide all the things we need? | 20:38 |
| david-lyle | since we have the plugin now, we can add tests without worrying about breaking the world | 20:38 |
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| david-lyle | selenium is present in tempest I believe | 20:39 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: are you able to get ediardo and lcastell up to speed on tempesting? | 20:39 |
| tqtran | oh neato | 20:39 |
| david-lyle | yes my knowledge runs very deep :P | 20:39 |
| r1chardj0n3s | erm, you've been asserting that sleenium is in tempest... | 20:39 |
| david-lyle | I think so | 20:39 |
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| david-lyle | I created the plugin and maintain the test, so yes I'm the closest thing we have to an expert | 20:40 |
| robcresswell | \o/ | 20:40 |
| tqtran | btw, is the horizon tempest repo own by horizon drivers? | 20:41 |
| lcastell | bring the knowledge | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | yes | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | tqtran: ^^ | 20:41 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: do you have a quick linky to that repos pls? | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | but I just +2+A stuff I put in there | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | cause | 20:41 |
| tqtran | hm ok, im not seeing it on launchpad (but i trust you) | 20:41 |
| david-lyle | https://github.com/openstack/tempest-horizon | 20:42 |
| r1chardj0n3s | thanks david-lyle | 20:42 |
| r1chardj0n3s | so, microversions? | 20:43 |
| robcresswell | Right | 20:43 |
| robcresswell | I can't really read the word microversion without getting angry any more | 20:43 |
| david-lyle | tqtran: https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/projects/openstack/tempest-horizon,access | 20:43 |
| david-lyle | haha | 20:43 |
| david-lyle | you're welcome robcresswell | 20:43 |
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| robcresswell | I'm personally still voting for fixed versions in a list in Horizon | 20:44 |
| r1chardj0n3s | one of the big issues is that we were considering allowing version exclusions in our local specification of versions that work | 20:44 |
| tqtran | i also think a fixed version is going to make life easier for us down the stretch | 20:44 |
| robcresswell | Because microversions are designed for users to know what version they want, and just hit that version | 20:44 |
| * ducttape_ is looking forward to tempest having microversions | 20:45 | |
| robcresswell | so range may break randomly, and range/exclude is troublesome for the reasons you outlined in the etherpad r1chardj0n3s | 20:45 |
| robcresswell | So, I think we should just stick to a list of known functional versions | 20:45 |
| robcresswell | like [3.11, 3.18] | 20:45 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | but you were arguing against that because maintenance? | 20:45 |
| robcresswell | Indeed | 20:46 |
| robcresswell | I've transcended arguing to the point where I can just argue myself into a corner alone now | 20:46 |
| r1chardj0n3s | whereas we can just get the version range from the target service's source code | 20:46 |
| robcresswell | But I think that list of fixed versions is least shit situation | 20:46 |
| robcresswell | er | 20:47 |
| * robcresswell thinks | 20:47 | |
| rhagarty_ | version each resource? | 20:47 |
| r1chardj0n3s | rhagarty_: sorry, expand on that idea please? | 20:47 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: It goes way beyond that, we need to version every feature. | 20:47 |
| rhagarty_ | most resources will always continue to work, with latest | 20:47 |
| david-lyle | I think we should be naive and let it fail | 20:47 |
| david-lyle | unless we find something breaking then put some logic in | 20:48 |
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| ducttape_ | +1 | 20:48 |
| david-lyle | we don't keep up with the APIs now | 20:48 |
| r1chardj0n3s | david-lyle: could you be more explicit? how should we be naive? | 20:48 |
| ducttape_ | this is not all that different from policy | 20:48 |
| david-lyle | and now we're going to validate every nuance of microversion role? | 20:48 |
| david-lyle | assume API calls will work :) | 20:49 |
| ducttape_ | write / ship code with little to no checks on micro versions | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | there will be a min version for some | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | but latest should work in almost all cases | 20:49 |
| david-lyle | ducttape_: ++ | 20:49 |
| rhagarty_ | but we need to handle new features introduced in microversions... or we just don't suport? | 20:50 |
| david-lyle | the glaring exception will require code changes via bug fixes | 20:50 |
| ducttape_ | the only problem, is that this will build up over time, on the min versions etc | 20:50 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: Well, that would be accounted for by a minimum | 20:50 |
| david-lyle | most now don't have a min | 20:50 |
| ducttape_ | david-lyle - what if someone is adding a new horizon thing, and they place a min check, on something that is not in a released service yet ? | 20:50 |
| robcresswell | As in, if service.latest is > minimum, show it, and pray it still works | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | just the newest additions (in our code base) | 20:51 |
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| robcresswell | ducttape_: Well, it just wouldnt show up | 20:51 |
| ducttape_ | I think the reviewers might want to have a rule on that tho | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | the result wouldn't show | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | log it | 20:51 |
| robcresswell | The problem with this is that Horizon could break in fun and unnoticed ways | 20:51 |
| ducttape_ | like don't merge code unless this feature is in a release somewhere | 20:51 |
| rhagarty_ | resullt would show... with errors | 20:51 |
| david-lyle | ducttape_: ++ | 20:51 |
| r1chardj0n3s | a problem with ignoring microversions is that it means we could probably never implement something https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/api/openstack/compute/migrate_server.py#L65 | 20:51 |
| ducttape_ | nah we can add new things, and have them use a min --- this is fine / ok I think | 20:52 |
| david-lyle | that looks like a disaster | 20:52 |
| r1chardj0n3s | not that I dream of implementing against an API that mutates every few versions... | 20:52 |
| robcresswell | ARGH WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS SMART | 20:52 |
| robcresswell | fuck sake. | 20:52 |
| rdopiera | nova... | 20:53 |
| ducttape_ | holy shit that link is hurrible | 20:53 |
| r1chardj0n3s | "someone else's problem" | 20:53 |
| ducttape_ | r1chardj0n3s we now feel very bad about ourselves ;) | 20:53 |
| robcresswell | stability is hard, lets push this on to the users and consumers. | 20:53 |
| r1chardj0n3s | so, the point is, that for *some* API calls, we will need mivroversion support | 20:54 |
| ducttape_ | agree | 20:54 |
| david-lyle | or say this is too stupid | 20:54 |
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| david-lyle | we abstain | 20:54 |
| robcresswell | hahaha | 20:54 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I have proposed that we pull the version ranges directly from the service itself (we can grep to find most of the information) | 20:54 |
| tqtran | lol | 20:54 |
| rhagarty_ | cinder likes it... it forces user to specify version in CLI calls, which they can live with. They didn't think through/care about Horizon | 20:54 |
| ducttape_ | I think david-lyle and I are saying - avoid the micro version stuff unless you are really painted in a corner | 20:54 |
| r1chardj0n3s | ducttape_: and I'm agreeing | 20:54 |
| rhagarty_ | I am painted in a corner | 20:55 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we already have one patch up that needs microversion support | 20:55 |
| robcresswell | rhagarty_: Or about anyone not using a CLI | 20:55 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | so we need to make sure our approach is sensible (or at least starts out with something that we think is sensible) | 20:55 |
| robcresswell | r1chardj0n3s: So, minimum and *optional* maximum? | 20:55 |
| ducttape_ | we are not starting from a sensible place ;) | 20:55 |
| r1chardj0n3s | robcresswell: yes | 20:55 |
| david-lyle | we still have the vague concept of an integrated release | 20:56 |
| rhagarty_ | I added cinder consistency groups, which goes away in 4.0. It is being replaced by generic groups, added in 3.13, 3.14 and generic group snapshots added in 3.15 | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | as long as we support the latest MV in those releases, I think that handles most of it | 20:56 |
| r1chardj0n3s | we have four minutes to go | 20:56 |
| r1chardj0n3s | #topic Mascot | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mascot (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 20:56 | |
| r1chardj0n3s | just quickly | 20:56 |
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| robcresswell | Right, I'll update the bp to specify minimum and optional maximum | 20:56 |
| ediardo | Very Mascot | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | the legacy of backward compatibility may be lost to microversion purgatory | 20:56 |
| ducttape_ | did robcresswell get images ? | 20:56 |
| david-lyle | ducttape_: on the MML | 20:57 |
| robcresswell | did I what now | 20:57 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I really like rdopiera's reworking of the mascot, and weill be feeding that back to them | 20:57 |
| david-lyle | *ML | 20:57 |
| david-lyle | r1chardj0n3s: ++ | 20:57 |
| robcresswell | Yeah, it should be orange and white | 20:57 |
| * ducttape_ avoids the ml, heads there now | 20:57 | |
| robcresswell | not a husky | 20:57 |
| r1chardj0n3s | yep | 20:57 |
| david-lyle | rdopiera: did you provide that as feedback on the link? | 20:57 |
| robcresswell | its basically identical to the release one I think | 20:57 |
| david-lyle | ducttape_: sorry | 20:57 |
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| rdopiera | david-lyle: what link? | 20:58 |
| robcresswell | Oh, I threw another tantrum on twitter at the foundation and the updated me on the logo's to say it'll still be another few weeks to make an svg -.- so I'll probably do it myself | 20:58 |
| david-lyle | feedback link for the mascot | 20:58 |
| r1chardj0n3s | robcresswell: \o/ | 20:58 |
| rdopiera | david-lyle: I saw no feedback link, just the image as an attachment | 20:58 |
| r1chardj0n3s | I didn't include the feedback link in my message because I actually don't know what it is ;-) | 20:59 |
| david-lyle | oh r1chardj0n3s didn't include that part of the email | 20:59 |
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| david-lyle | I bet he will now | 20:59 |
| rdopiera | so in short, no | 20:59 |
| david-lyle | :) | 20:59 |
| r1chardj0n3s | www.tinyurl.com/OSmascot | 20:59 |
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| r1chardj0n3s | is the feedback link | 20:59 |
| r1chardj0n3s | thanks everyone! time's up | 20:59 |
| r1chardj0n3s | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 7 21:00:03 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2016/horizon.2016-12-07-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2016/horizon.2016-12-07-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2016/horizon.2016-12-07-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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