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| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 15:01:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 15:01 |
| sweston | o/ | 15:01 |
| asselin | o/ | 15:01 |
| krtaylor | who is here for third party CI working group meeting? | 15:01 |
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| krtaylor | hi sweston, asselin | 15:02 |
| patrickeast | hey guys | 15:02 |
| asselin | hi | 15:02 |
| sweston | hi | 15:02 |
| krtaylor | hey patrickeast | 15:02 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 15:02 |
| krtaylor | hi mmedvede | 15:02 |
| krtaylor | welcome everyone! let's get started, full agenda today | 15:03 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#4.2F15.2F15_1500_UTC | 15:03 |
| rhe00 | hi | 15:03 |
| krtaylor | a quick announcement: Gerrit 2.9 upgrade Saturday May 9, 2015 | 15:04 |
| krtaylor | hi rhe00 | 15:04 |
| krtaylor | there is also another potential outage this weekend, Saturday I believe | 15:04 |
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| * krtaylor looks for specifics | 15:05 | |
| krtaylor | that is for the project rename | 15:05 |
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| krtaylor | nope Friday | 15:06 |
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| krtaylor | "Friday, April 17 at 22:00 UTC Gerrit will be unavailable for about 2 hours while we rename some projects and perform some database maintenance." | 15:07 |
| krtaylor | ok, any other quick announcements? | 15:07 |
| zz_ja | krtaylor, what is expected impact of upgrade to third party cis? | 15:07 |
| asselin | I figure shouldn't be "worse" than impact to infra's ci system | 15:08 |
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| krtaylor | zz_ja, just gerrit being down, connections to gerrit would be impacted | 15:08 |
| krtaylor | right | 15:08 |
| asselin | you might need to restart some services, e.g. zuul | 15:09 |
| zz_ja | fair nuf | 15:09 |
| krtaylor | #topic Topics for discussion at Liberty summit in Vancouver | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Topics for discussion at Liberty summit in Vancouver (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:10 | |
| krtaylor | so,we are proposed as a cross-project session | 15:10 |
| krtaylor | here is the topics list: | 15:11 |
| krtaylor | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-third-party-ci-working-group | 15:11 |
| krtaylor | please add topics and put your nick next to it | 15:11 |
| krtaylor | that needs to be finished in the next coming week | 15:11 |
| krtaylor | so we can finalize the agenda if we are selected | 15:11 |
| krtaylor | get those topics in there asap | 15:12 |
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| krtaylor | any questions about our proposed design session topics? | 15:12 |
| krtaylor | #topic In-tree 3rd party ci (downstream-puppet) | 15:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "In-tree 3rd party ci (downstream-puppet) (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:14 | |
| krtaylor | anything you'd like to mention asselin ? | 15:14 |
| krtaylor | the effort is making good progress | 15:14 |
| asselin | just need reviews & more ppl to refactor the other sections | 15:15 |
| krtaylor | there is a ton of new patches | 15:15 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:downstream-puppet,n,z | 15:15 |
| asselin | please focus on the one's I submitted :) | 15:15 |
| krtaylor | hehheh | 15:15 |
| krtaylor | will do | 15:15 |
| zz_ja | how do we expect this work to proceed (faster,slower) through the next few weeks with the release cutoff? | 15:16 |
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| asselin | zz_ja, this is the best time to do it IMHO, b/c of the release cutoff...work is slower in other projects | 15:16 |
| asselin | infra doesn't have a cutoff / branchless | 15:17 |
| krtaylor | shouldn't be much impact, there should be lots of progress at summit too | 15:17 |
| zz_ja | ok good was hoping that was the case asselin | 15:17 |
| zz_ja | krtaylor, only so many of us get travel approval; emily will carry our ci torch | 15:17 |
| krtaylor | I expect the Friday sprint in Vancouver would be a great opportunity to finish up a bunch of this, with everyone in the same room | 15:17 |
| krtaylor | zz_ja, yeah, unfortunate | 15:18 |
| zz_ja | I *finally* got a pile of VMs delivered for CI, so now we have something to install on for real | 15:18 |
| asselin | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000101 | 15:18 |
| asselin | sign up here ^^ :) | 15:18 |
| krtaylor | yes, its a great place to get involved, if you have the extra bandwidth | 15:19 |
| asselin | btw, you need to login and change preferences to see all the stories | 15:19 |
| asselin | profile --> page size --> 100 | 15:19 |
| krtaylor | asselin, good to know | 15:20 |
| krtaylor | any questions on downstream-puppet work? | 15:20 |
| asselin | although seems to not work today. will ask in -infra later | 15:20 |
| krtaylor | hm, I'm not seeing a problem | 15:21 |
| krtaylor | anyway, lets move on | 15:21 |
| krtaylor | #topic Repo for third party tools | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Repo for third party tools (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:21 | |
| krtaylor | I have not started all the creation needed for this, I was hoping to see more involvement first | 15:22 |
| krtaylor | eventhough we (IBM) will need the stackforge repo in order to contribute our tools | 15:22 |
| krtaylor | any thoughts on this? do we feel like this will be a create-it-and-they-will-come kind of thing? | 15:23 |
| asselin | yes | 15:23 |
| sweston | what is the expectation for the tools which would go into this repo? | 15:24 |
| krtaylor | we haven't seen that with changing the meeting times, it has not increased involvement despite everyone at summit insisting that was the barrier | 15:24 |
| krtaylor | sweston, basically anything that helps CI operators that falls outside of infra services | 15:25 |
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| krtaylor | monitoring, deployment, logging tools, configurations and plugins to monitoring frameworks | 15:26 |
| sweston | nagios? | 15:26 |
| krtaylor | sweston, exactly | 15:27 |
| krtaylor | sweston, I was just starting to look into that for our environment | 15:27 |
| sweston | krtaylor: it's a great tool ... maybe we can put together a puppet manifest for it, to start with | 15:28 |
| krtaylor | any thoughts on the repo? would you contribute to it? | 15:28 |
| patrickeast | ^ i have something on my backlog to set that up too, if we have a shared set of configs for it for zuul, jenkins, etc that would be pretty awesome | 15:28 |
| sweston | yes | 15:28 |
| asselin | I think infra uses a different too for that use-case | 15:28 |
| krtaylor | the nice thing is that it would allow for gerrit reviews/contributions to these tools and plugins | 15:29 |
| sweston | where would it be hosted? | 15:29 |
| krtaylor | stackforge | 15:30 |
| sweston | ok | 15:30 |
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| krtaylor | something like stackforge/third-party-ci-tools | 15:30 |
| sweston | any other suggestions for other tools? | 15:31 |
| krtaylor | sweston, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartyCIWorkingGroup#Third_Party_CI_System_Tools_Index | 15:31 |
| krtaylor | oops | 15:31 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartyCIWorkingGroup#Third_Party_CI_System_Tools_Index | 15:32 |
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| krtaylor | links to some existing tools | 15:32 |
| asselin | #link http://ci.openstack.org/cacti.html | 15:32 |
| krtaylor | it would require us to review and support these tools | 15:32 |
| asselin | is that similar to nagios? ^^ | 15:32 |
| krtaylor | I'd really like for us to agree and commit to using it | 15:33 |
| patrickeast | asselin: yea looks like the same kind of thing | 15:33 |
| asselin | krtaylor, +1 I think having a place to share would reduce barriers | 15:33 |
| patrickeast | i'm in for using the repo | 15:33 |
| asselin | and having reviews is a good thing imho | 15:34 |
| krtaylor | anyone not willing to support this? | 15:34 |
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| krtaylor | asselin, agreed | 15:34 |
| sweston | I think it's a great idea | 15:34 |
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| krtaylor | #agreed krtaylor will create stackforge/third-party-ci-tools | 15:35 |
| krtaylor | any objections? | 15:35 |
| krtaylor | do we need a vote? :) | 15:35 |
| sweston | might make some of us feel important ;-) | 15:36 |
| patrickeast | +1 frp, ,e | 15:36 |
| patrickeast | from me* | 15:36 |
| sweston | +1 | 15:36 |
| * patrickeast feels important | 15:36 | |
| krtaylor | #startvote create stackforge/third-party-ci-tools? | 15:36 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: create stackforge/third-party-ci-tools? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 15:36 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 15:36 |
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| sweston | #vote Yes | 15:36 |
| asselin | #vote yes | 15:36 |
| krtaylor | #vote yes | 15:36 |
| patrickeast | #vote Yes | 15:36 |
| krtaylor | rhe00, ? mmedvede ? | 15:37 |
| krtaylor | anyone else? | 15:37 |
| krtaylor | last call | 15:37 |
| krtaylor | #endvote | 15:38 |
| openstack | Voted on "create stackforge/third-party-ci-tools?" Results are | 15:38 |
| krtaylor | ok, that was cool, I've never used that tool before :) | 15:38 |
| * asselin doesn't see the results? | 15:38 | |
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| sweston | where are the results? bot is slow | 15:38 |
| krtaylor | hm, no results | 15:38 |
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| krtaylor | well, log is sufficient | 15:39 |
| krtaylor | #topic monitoring dashboard | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "monitoring dashboard (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:39 | |
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| krtaylor | sweston, can you work with jhesketh to resolve his comments and move that forward? | 15:40 |
| sweston | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135170/ | 15:40 |
| sweston | posted a response already this morning | 15:40 |
| krtaylor | yes, I see that! I just refreshed | 15:41 |
| krtaylor | excellent, thank you | 15:41 |
| sweston | I feel like nobody has read the stackforge radar code | 15:41 |
| krtaylor | reviews please everyone | 15:41 |
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| krtaylor | ok, lets move on to get all the agenda in, we can come back if time | 15:42 |
| krtaylor | #topic Highlighting Third-Party CI Service | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Highlighting Third-Party CI Service (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:42 | |
| sweston | #link https://github.com/stackforge/radar | 15:42 |
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| sweston | krtaylor: sorry, moving on | 15:42 |
| krtaylor | today's highlighted service is HP Storage CI | 15:42 |
| krtaylor | asselin, you have the floor | 15:42 |
| asselin | krtaylor, thanks | 15:43 |
| krtaylor | tell us about what you are testing | 15:43 |
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| asselin | so I've been working on HP Storage CI to test the hp 3par/storeserv and lefthand/storevirtual cinder drivers | 15:43 |
| asselin | I started about a year ago, working on jaypipe's repo. | 15:43 |
| asselin | I forked it and fixed it up, adding nodepool support: | 15:44 |
| asselin | #link https://github.com/rasselin/os-ext-testing | 15:44 |
| asselin | I started out with this basic template for testing cinder drivers | 15:45 |
| asselin | #link https://github.com/rasselin/os-ext-testing-data/blob/master/etc/jenkins_jobs/config/dsvm-cinder-driver.yaml.sample | 15:45 |
| krtaylor | and I'll add that lots of operators have benefited from your fixed up repo | 15:45 |
| asselin | which takes advantage of the devstack-gate hooks to configure the localrc/local.conf to the particular backend | 15:46 |
| asselin | krtaylor, yes, but no idea how many... | 15:46 |
| asselin | we test iscsi & fc transports | 15:46 |
| asselin | for iscsi, originally I had setup nova to create 2 nics on the nodepool instances, one for public, one for iscsi | 15:47 |
| asselin | but after I couldn't reproduce it, decided to defer that to the future. still an open issue. | 15:47 |
| asselin | so for ci testing we use the same nic for both regular traffic and iscsi traffic | 15:48 |
| patrickeast | i might be able to help some with that, we recently switched our nodes over to one management and two iscsi nic's | 15:48 |
| patrickeast | seems to be working | 15:48 |
| asselin | patrickeast, that would be awesome, thanks | 15:48 |
| asselin | for FC, we use pci passthrough. | 15:49 |
| krtaylor | asselin, how did you get around it? | 15:49 |
| asselin | krtaylor, use a single nic for all ip & iscsi traffic. | 15:49 |
| zz_ja | asselin, what's the relationship between your fork and the on-going puppet work? | 15:49 |
| asselin | zz_ja, so my fork is basically a copy-paste of the important parts of system-config openstack module | 15:50 |
| asselin | the plan is to refactor parts out of system-config, then system-config & my fork can use the same common puppet script | 15:51 |
| asselin | eventually I'd like to get rid of my fork and have everything upstream | 15:51 |
| sweston | asselin: +1 | 15:52 |
| zz_ja | asselin, figured that as ultimate goal just wasn't sure where you were today. we will be building a new from-scratch ci system starting probably next week. | 15:52 |
| krtaylor | ++ | 15:52 |
| krtaylor | exciting times for external CI | 15:53 |
| asselin | so the big change I've done compared to what's in github on the -data repo is to create a new devstack-gate-hp project hosted internally | 15:53 |
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| asselin | it basically mimics devstack-gate in that any changes to the scripts can be run internally vis ci to ensure they pass | 15:53 |
| asselin | that's been a huge help to keep the system agile & stable at the same time | 15:54 |
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| asselin | for example, cinder requires all 'volume' tests to be run | 15:54 |
| asselin | we had some issues, so the regex included some exclusions. | 15:54 |
| asselin | as I worked on resolving those issues in the devstack-gate-hp branch, I let the internal ci system run the tests to "verify' it before merging it and going live on the upstream ci system | 15:55 |
| krtaylor | asselin, how is your environment hosted? do you also have a production and development environments? | 15:56 |
| patrickeast | thats pretty cool, we usually just kind of manually try stuff out... having it automated sounds super helpful | 15:56 |
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| asselin | we have a few systems setup using the same scripts | 15:57 |
| asselin | we have a gerrit server hosted internally at hp that I added the devstack-gate-hp project to | 15:57 |
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| asselin | so just configured the scripts to point to that gerrit event stream instead of openstack's | 15:57 |
| krtaylor | right, ok | 15:58 |
| asselin | there's a single devstack-gate-hp project that both environments checkout on each job | 15:58 |
| asselin | (same as how the jobs checkout a fresh devstack-gate) | 15:58 |
| asselin | so keeping as much in common as possible | 15:58 |
| asselin | any questions for last minute? | 15:59 |
| krtaylor | very interesting | 15:59 |
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| patrickeast | asselin: for your FC testing did you look into virtual hba's instead of passthrough? | 15:59 |
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| patrickeast | or i guess in addition to | 15:59 |
| asselin | patrickeast, no, not yet | 16:00 |
| krtaylor | asselin, thanks for sharing your environment, very good | 16:00 |
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| sweston | asselin: yes, thanks! | 16:00 |
| krtaylor | we should call it quits for today | 16:00 |
| krtaylor | thanks everyone! | 16:00 |
| patrickeast | asselin: thanks for sharing! | 16:00 |
| sweston | thanks everyone | 16:00 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| asselin | thanks | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 16:00:55 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-15-15.01.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-15-15.01.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-15-15.01.log.html | 16:01 |
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| Rockyg | o/ | 19:58 |
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| jokke_ | o/ | 19:58 |
| Nikolay_St | o/ | 20:00 |
| Rockyg | #startmeeting log_wg | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 20:00:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Rockyg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'log_wg' | 20:00 |
| Rockyg | Hi guys! | 20:01 |
| Nikolay_St | hi | 20:01 |
| jokke_ | Hello | 20:01 |
| kudryashova | Hi! | 20:01 |
| Rockyg | So, I'll admit I haven't been keeping up on updating the minutes or agendas. | 20:02 |
| Rockyg | But it only took the better part of 4 days to get the spec into review | 20:03 |
| Rockyg | And I still have to figure out how to add a co-author | 20:03 |
| Rockyg | That said, suggestions for the agenda? | 20:03 |
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| jokke_ | Rockyg: you should have the details in your e-mail ;) | 20:04 |
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| jokke_ | for the co-author | 20:04 |
| Rockyg | I'll reread ;-) | 20:04 |
| jokke_ | There has been lots of passionate discussion on the spec proposal already | 20:04 |
| Rockyg | So, I have two agenda items: summit and spec | 20:04 |
| jokke_ | which is good | 20:05 |
| Rockyg | agreed, jokke_ | 20:05 |
| Rockyg | Lots of good info. I'm thinking we discuss that second and get some assignments for getting stuff together for the summit, though | 20:05 |
| Rockyg | So we get some summit work done ;-) | 20:06 |
| jokke_ | ++ | 20:06 |
| jokke_ | it's surprisingly close ... like 30 odd days | 20:06 |
| Rockyg | Yup, and I haven't done flight or hotel yet. | 20:06 |
| Rockyg | #topic prep for summit | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "prep for summit (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:06 | |
| Rockyg | We have an Ops session for logs, which is good. | 20:07 |
| Rockyg | I want to be organized to get lots of feedback/assignments out of the session | 20:07 |
| Rockyg | I think error code spec and requestor ID specs should be part of the discussion | 20:08 |
| jokke_ | Rockyg: do you know the slot for that session yet? | 20:08 |
| Rockyg | And maybe a good doc on what a log message should be and when one should be generated | 20:08 |
| Rockyg | Lemme check... though I think Tom has it sometime early on the first day | 20:09 |
| Rockyg | Which would be Tuesday | 20:09 |
| jokke_ | ok, just trying to ensure that I actually can be there ;) | 20:10 |
| Rockyg | #link https://docs.google.com/a/openstack.org/spreadsheets/d/1EUSYMs3GfglnD8yfFaAXWhLe0F5y9hCUKqCYe0Vp1oA/edit | 20:10 |
| Rockyg | make sure you go to the vancouver tab... | 20:11 |
| Rockyg | 12:05 - 12:45 tuesday | 20:11 |
| jokke_ | yeah the how do we fix logging one | 20:12 |
| jokke_ | Big Room and everything ;) | 20:12 |
| Rockyg | Yeah! But no working group meeting on it yet. Hmmm. Have to fix that. | 20:13 |
| Rockyg | I think a big problem with log messages in OpenStack is the fact that devs are confused between error messages and log messages. I think I said this already. and the reviews are showing it. | 20:14 |
| Rockyg | So, getting devs to define what the *need* and when they need it in log messages might be good. An Ops guide for developers. | 20:15 |
| jokke_ | ++ | 20:15 |
| Rockyg | That would be worth discussing in some of the other sessions, too. | 20:16 |
| Rockyg | another issue I see is that there is a fuzzy concern for security that gets added to the discussion and specifics don't turn around and answer the concerncs. | 20:17 |
| Rockyg | Everyone seems to understand "operators" get to see lots of stuff and are mostly trusted, but "users" are either not ever to be trusted, or are the same as operators, which we should know is not true on both counts | 20:18 |
| jokke_ | there are few cards that tends to get pulled out when there is no real argument but person just does not like the transparency or concept and security is one of those | 20:18 |
| Rockyg | by or before the summit, I'd like to have a list of all the known log files the major projects generate, where they are, who writes to them, and other identifying categories | 20:19 |
| jokke_ | that is so deployment dependent, but I think we can pull some general logs for example | 20:20 |
| Rockyg | jokke_, right. and if we can *target* a good chunk of the logs as to who has access, and who is writing to them, we can address security issues appropriately | 20:20 |
| jokke_ | I don't think the logs themselves are so big concern as they are fairly well contained ... I think the biggest concern is what we let user to know about the issue | 20:21 |
| Rockyg | agreed, but that is all based on the security level of the log the message gets written to. | 20:22 |
| jokke_ | or let's put it in this way, if we put deployment data int othe logs and 3rd party gets access to those logs, the deployment information is one of the smallest problems there | 20:22 |
| Rockyg | So, any vm generated log message should be viewable by the tenant admin. and maybe the tenant users | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | But, most of the projects don't write to vm logs. | 20:23 |
| jokke_ | yeah there is difference between VM details that are available vs. underlying architecture logs | 20:23 |
| Rockyg | So, we identify the logs that the architecture logs write to, and we document level of security needed for *the logs* | 20:24 |
| Rockyg | By providing detailed audit docs, we reduce the FUD about the contents of the messages. | 20:25 |
| Rockyg | Anyway, for the summit: | 20:26 |
| Rockyg | 1. Present cross project specs: Error codes for logs, error codes/messages for APIs, request IDs | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | 2. Get Ops comments, volunteers. | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | 3. Provide the spreadsheet of log files for ops to expand info about | 20:27 |
| Rockyg | 4. Get lots of feedback on current efforts | 20:28 |
| Rockyg | 5. Get Liberty targets to work on | 20:28 |
| Rockyg | How's that sound? | 20:28 |
| jokke_ | 6. add as many devs as we can kidnap to the point 2 ;) | 20:28 |
| Rockyg | ;-) | 20:29 |
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| jokke_ | I would really really like to have at least one item by the time I'm flying back home that I know I can start working on right away | 20:29 |
| jokke_ | I think that is the most important thing. One plus thing agreed to the level that implementation can start | 20:30 |
| Rockyg | I think that with the error codes, a lot of the documentation will come from the Ops group. If we can get them to sign up for detailed docs and we can get devs to put summaries into a repository, then I think we have a good docs story | 20:30 |
| Rockyg | And the dev summary will be their "words for error codes" stuff. Instead of camel case English, it can be an English phrase that is easily translatable ;-) | 20:31 |
| jokke_ | I'd like to have in each repo a doc that has list of error codes and next to used code is the detailed (to the complexity) description why that error was raised | 20:32 |
| Rockyg | Jokke_, (and kudryashova) I think if we have the error code spec in reasonable developer shape for the summit, we can have the groundwork for the supporting tools identified and spec/blueprint filed either by the end of the summit or shortly thereafter | 20:32 |
| Rockyg | jokke_, sounds like a good use of pydoc;) | 20:33 |
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| jokke_ | if it's "User does not have privileges" or "Driver X.Y.X failed due to Z second timeout towards device A" | 20:33 |
| Rockyg | agreed. | 20:34 |
| jokke_ | what I'd like to enable is building of knowledgebase what you can prepopulate by dev insight on those docs and extend with real life experience | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 20:35 |
| Rockyg | Funny, we seem to be back to the spec. | 20:36 |
| jokke_ | Just example something that Telco can use to build knowledgebase when they are supporting their customers without needing to pull engineering in each time someone couldn't get VM launched | 20:36 |
| jokke_ | sorry | 20:36 |
| jokke_ | yeah | 20:36 |
| Rockyg | So, it sounds like back to the summit, more planning. | 20:36 |
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| Rockyg | It sounds like we need to plant people in the working group sessions | 20:36 |
| jokke_ | yeah ... does the API wg has their own sessions? | 20:36 |
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| Rockyg | like telco, enterprise, big installations, and yes, api-wg | 20:37 |
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| jokke_ | I think we seriously need to sync with those people before they get that "Lets dump gig of json to the user when they are in problems"-spec through | 20:38 |
| Rockyg | Maybe we can work with the product-wg to ensure either feedback or coverage. I'll bring that up in the product-wg meeting today | 20:38 |
| jokke_ | that sounds good | 20:38 |
| Rockyg | jokke_, it looks like there's a second cross project spec that is trying to address the request id in a different way | 20:39 |
| jokke_ | I'd really like to see the large installations folks in that session of ours ... we've seen already what devstack scale spits out ... I'd really like to hear from the big env folks how they a) tackle the current situation b) would like to do it | 20:40 |
| jokke_ | Rockyg: by whom? | 20:40 |
| Rockyg | good question. Looking... | 20:41 |
| jokke_ | btw did we loose Nikolay_St and kudryashova or do you guys have something in mind you'd like to tackle in the summit? | 20:41 |
| Rockyg | good question. | 20:43 |
| Rockyg | so, it looks to be the same spec, but it's getting developer eyes/comments because we've managed to raise its visiblity. | 20:43 |
| jokke_ | ++ | 20:45 |
| jokke_ | bit by bit | 20:45 |
| Rockyg | And it looks like Jamie Lennox needs someone to respond to his very recent comment | 20:45 |
| jokke_ | maybe we have everything in the Unicorn release after all | 20:45 |
| Rockyg | <snicker> | 20:46 |
| jokke_ | I think we need to discuss in the summit also where do we direct all this good mojo when the logs are amazing :D | 20:47 |
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| Rockyg | Oh, good question! | 20:47 |
| Rockyg | Ah, the ops will have something else to complain about..... | 20:47 |
| Rockyg | So, enought on the summit | 20:48 |
| Rockyg | #topic spec | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec (Meeting topic: log_wg)" | 20:48 | |
| jokke_ | although we could, to void even more confusion (ref back to the spec) change the name of this wg to supportaility_wg rather than log, could that help on both problems? | 20:48 |
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| Rockyg | Looking at the RFC, and the reason I don't want the code in the body, is there is a place in the Header for MSGID | 20:50 |
| jokke_ | on what header? | 20:51 |
| Rockyg | Then, if the "message" gets passed up to the next "app", the whole message is encapuslated and a new MSGID gets tacked to the front. | 20:52 |
| Rockyg | according to rfc5424, the message format is Header Structured-Data MSG | 20:52 |
| Rockyg | #link http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc5424.html | 20:53 |
| Rockyg | Header has priority, version, timestamp, hostname, app-name, procid, msgid | 20:53 |
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| Rockyg | section 6.2.7 is msgid | 20:54 |
| jokke_ | that is very syslog specific and I don't think python logging nor oslo.log has actually committed to follow such | 20:54 |
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| Rockyg | 1*32PRINTUSASCII | 20:54 |
| Rockyg | I bet you're right. But I also bet we could get oslo.log to add the field | 20:55 |
| Rockyg | We know that have Priority, host, timestamp | 20:55 |
| jokke_ | which is probably the reason why people have been so confused around that spec regarding the header reference ... that also does not help us to provide that information to the user, does it? | 20:55 |
| Rockyg | the header always gets printed out in the log message | 20:56 |
| Rockyg | And it is *before* the body | 20:56 |
| Rockyg | So, makes it easy to find | 20:56 |
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| Rockyg | It's also something we might get oslo.log to default stuf to if they put it in and it isn't passed | 20:57 |
| Rockyg | like proj-class-nullnumber if no code specified | 20:57 |
| jokke_ | This field MAY be operator-assigned. | 20:58 |
| jokke_ | what ever that might mean | 20:58 |
| jokke_ | oh, that was speedy hour | 20:59 |
| Rockyg | Oh, sh*t. Yeah. But, review this RFC and I'll go look at python log stuff. I think this would work out great and solve some of the confusion | 21:00 |
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| jokke_ | yeah ... we thanks and have a god one | 21:00 |
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| Rockyg | And, the RFC allows for passing log messages through, and has some pretty good rules about it, which will leave the log trail back to the first loggable message through to the last., | 21:01 |
| Rockyg | YUup. better end the meeting.. | 21:01 |
| Rockyg | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 21:01:27 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-15-20.00.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-15-20.00.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/log_wg/2015/log_wg.2015-04-15-20.00.log.html | 21:01 |
| Rockyg | and now you also know why when I talk about syslog, I'm talking different from most folks. I'm going back to the RFC. | 21:02 |
| Rockyg | 2009 to be exact... | 21:02 |
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| jokke_ | :) | 21:02 |
| jokke_ | explains a lot | 21:02 |
| Rockyg | Gotta make this meeting earlier.... | 21:02 |
| jokke_ | like 2005 or so? :P | 21:03 |
| Rockyg | anyway, talk some more real soon. | 21:03 |
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| Rockyg | Hey, the roots go back to BSD. | 21:03 |
| jokke_ | sure ... let's keep eyes and fingers on that review | 21:03 |
| Rockyg | RFC3165 I think | 21:03 |
| Rockyg | While I have you here, I was thinking of putting it in an etherpad to get more interactive work done before the next check-in. Would you work on it, too, if I did that? Trying to address as many of the comments as i can. | 21:05 |
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