Wednesday, 2015-12-23

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inc0ok since we have few people16:31
inc0#startmeeting kolla16:31
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec 23 16:31:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:31
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:31
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)"16:31
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'kolla'16:31
inc0#topic rollcall16:31
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)"16:31
nihilifero/16:31
Jeffrey4l_o/16:31
inc0hello everyone, show of hands please16:31
elemoineo/16:31
akwasniehi once again:)16:31
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britthouser0/16:32
inc0#topic agenda16:32
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: kolla)"16:32
inc0nothing in agenda;)16:32
inc0this will be short one16:32
inc0#topic open discussion16:33
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: kolla)"16:33
Jeffrey4lhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/260389/ here16:33
nihiliferyep, the first free topic i wanted to discuss16:33
nihiliferis the migration to oslo.config16:33
nihiliferJeffrey4l did the awesome work on that16:34
nihiliferthe question is whether anyone is ok with that16:34
Jeffrey4luse oslo.config16:34
inc0I kinda wonder if that would not be overkill16:35
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inc0argparse is part of stdlib, I'd like to minimize impact required for running kolla16:35
Jeffrey4las the result of talk with nihilifer and mandre today,it is break the back compatibility now.16:35
nihiliferwell, we require a lot of things from pip already16:36
nihiliferso i don't consider adding oslo.config dep a big issue16:36
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Jeffrey4loslo.config is a "stdlib" for openstack project.16:36
inc0nihilifer, what besides docker-py and ansible?16:36
nihiliferbut Jeffrey4l reminded one more problematic thing16:36
Jeffrey4lalmost all the project useing it.16:36
nihiliferinc0: Jinja2, pbr, gitdb, git, six16:37
nihilifermaybe not a lot16:37
inc0jinja2 comes with ansible16:37
inc0oslo assumes that you have most of global requirements installed, and they will freely add new dependencies16:38
SamYapleo/16:38
nihiliferhey SamYaple16:38
inc0and unless there is real benefit to it, I don't really want to add dependencies to deployment host16:38
ajafoo/16:38
inc0small footprint on hosts is one of our values16:39
dims_inc0 : we do try to hold the line with basic libs like oslo.config and oslo.log :)16:39
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inc0dims_, but thing with kolla is - we're kinda different16:39
nihiliferhi dims_, good to have you here :)16:39
dims_inc0 : that's fair16:39
SamYapleid be ok with oslo.config since we have the proposal bot in place already16:39
inc0we require like 5 python libs now16:39
dims_not pushing for oslo.config, just making sure we understand concerns16:39
inc0right now it's discussion oslo.log vs python stdlib16:40
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inc0oslo.config*16:40
dims_inc0 : yep, no issues using python stdlib, it's all good16:40
SamYapleunless there is a limitation of the standard lib, i dont see a need to change16:40
nihiliferoslo.config will introduce two libs more16:40
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nihiliferstevedore and netaddr16:40
inc0I'm not against it, don't get me wrong, just thinking what's real benefit, remember it's really simple python script we're talking about16:41
dims_nihilifer : we are trying to remove netaddr16:41
nihiliferdims_: oh, ok, nice16:41
SamYapleew yea not a fan of netaddr16:41
dims_blocked on some pip work with extra dependencies16:41
SamYaplewould be great to remove that16:41
inc0nihilifer, and stevedore has it's own deps16:41
inc0all I'm asking is...what's the reason for change?16:41
inc0apart from "openstack uses it"16:41
dims_inc0 : +1 good question,16:41
nihiliferok, so closing dep things https://github.com/openstack/stevedore/blob/master/requirements.txt16:42
nihiliferit uses what we already have16:42
nihilifergoing to reasons16:42
nihiliferthe first nice feature, autogenerating sample configs from code16:42
Jeffrey4loslo.config handle thing graceful.16:42
nihiliferso it requires less effort from developer introducing new setting16:42
nihilifersecond nice thing16:42
nihiliferit already discovers where the config is16:43
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nihiliferwhether it's /etc/ or somewhere near project cloned from git16:43
SamYapleare you suggesting we don't need to have /etc/kolla as a hard-unchanging-path?16:43
nihiliferyep16:43
SamYaplei like both of these things16:43
SamYaplethis is worth pursuing for either of those reasons16:43
* dims_ has to run. can take questions later this afternoon on #openstack-oslo :)16:43
nihiliferand we can get rid of all code in kolla dealing with directory discovery16:43
SamYaplethanks dims_ !16:44
nihilifertha'ts the main reasom i introduced it in kolla-mesos16:44
inc0thanks dims_16:44
nihiliferwe didn't want to write a code checking paths16:44
inc0ok, you got me convinced16:44
SamYapleive recently made alot of effort to remove the path things in ansible with the "simmplfy config" patch16:44
SamYapleso with oslo.config we can most likely remove the hard dep on /etc/kolla16:45
SamYaplefor kolla-ansible16:45
inc0yeah, I don't like us having hardcoded config path as well, we should gradually get rid of it16:45
nihiliferfor example, we could try to get rid of using something like that https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/kolla/cmd/build.py#L24216:45
inc0same for build.py16:45
SamYaplenihilifer: i dont even have to look it up, i know that section16:45
SamYaplei was thinking about it as well16:45
inc0ok, let's do this, thanks for clarification guys16:45
SamYaple+2 for proceeding from me16:46
nihiliferok16:46
nihiliferthere is a second thing in oslo.config16:46
nihiliferwe must discuss16:46
nihiliferwhen you register cli argument "foo"16:46
nihiliferand it's a boolean setting16:46
nihiliferoslo.config automatically defines --nofoo16:46
inc0aha! first make them agree then push forward! well played sir16:46
nihiliferas a logical negation16:47
SamYaplenice16:47
SamYapleit will change the --no-cache arg then16:47
nihiliferJeffrey4l's concern was16:47
nihiliferwhether changing --no-cache16:47
nihiliferto --cache16:47
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nihiliferand automatically generated --nocache16:47
nihiliferis fine for you16:47
SamYapleas long as the default is unchanged, i think its fine16:47
nihiliferit will break a backwards compatibility16:48
inc0--nocache != --no-cache16:48
nihiliferbut imo it's not huge change and benefits are better16:48
SamYaplenihilifer: not necessarily, we can put in --no-cache and deprecate it16:48
Jeffrey4lyep. it break the compatibility.16:48
nihiliferSamYaple: --no-cache will be negated as --nono-cache16:48
inc0if we add --no-cache option to oslo.config16:48
nihiliferthat's the thing16:48
SamYaplenihilifer: i know16:48
SamYapleso we deprecate it16:48
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inc0it will create --nono-cache right? but old --no-cache works16:49
SamYaplea little migration cruft we cary for a cycle16:49
nihiliferinc0: yes, it will create --nono-cache and there is no way to disable such a behavior in oslo.config16:49
Jeffrey4lSo, we will have two option? --no-cache and --cache ? with the automatically inversed `--nono-cache` and `--nocach` ?16:49
inc0nihilifer, so if we do that and deprecate --no-cache16:49
SamYapleJeffrey4l: yea16:50
inc0it will be our migration cruft16:50
SamYaplewe deprecate --no-cache and remove it in N16:50
nihiliferok16:50
Jeffrey4lI agreed.16:50
nihilifergood to heat that you're fine with that16:50
Jeffrey4loslo.config also support the deprected thing.16:50
SamYapleyup :)16:50
SamYaplewith the removal of /etc/kolla we can go full non-root16:51
Jeffrey4lanother thing is that `--template` options. it is a time to remove?16:51
Jeffrey4lyep16:51
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SamYapleJeffrey4l: i mean we can16:51
inc0yeah, we already removed non-templated dockers16:51
SamYaplebut it hasn't been a cycle16:51
Jeffrey4lso we should do it later? right?16:51
SamYapleit was something that was only temp in the liberty branch anyway16:51
SamYaplei dont think it really matters Jeffrey4l, we can leave it to be safe but if its a problem remove it16:52
Jeffrey4lOK. got it.16:52
inc0I'm ok with just deleting it16:52
nihiliferme too16:52
inc0it doesn't work anyway16:53
SamYapleits been a dead option for longer than it was a working one16:53
inc0yup16:53
inc0and it was broken in 1.0 so unless you have like mid-liberty stuff running (and I'm talking about 1 month time window) you're ok16:54
inc0and if you do, well, sorry to hear that16:54
SamYaplei think we can move on, whats on the docket next?16:54
Jeffrey4lthere is another  back compatility. the [kolla-build] section should be renamed to [DEFAULT].16:54
Jeffrey4lit that ok for you?16:54
SamYapleoh hmm16:54
inc0so, config changes are different16:54
SamYaplecan we somehow make that compatible?16:54
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SamYaplei know oslo supports options from different sections16:55
inc0I'm -1 unless it's backward compatible16:55
nihiliferhmmm... we may create section [kolla-build] using oslo.config16:55
SamYapleagreed, we do have to be backwards compatible16:55
nihiliferand just leave [DEFAULT] empty16:55
nihiliferthat's what we're doing in kolla-mesos16:55
SamYaplenihilifer: thats fine16:55
Jeffrey4lwe may can use deprecate session feature.16:55
SamYaplewe could also do that, then move the options and deprecate the old spots16:55
nihiliferJeffrey4l: no need for that16:55
nihiliferwe can just create cfg.OptGroup('kolla-build')16:56
Jeffrey4ls/session/section/16:56
nihiliferand put all stuff there16:56
SamYaplethere is really no wrong answer here as long as its backwards compatible16:56
Jeffrey4lnihilifer, the cli will add a `--sectionname-opts`16:56
nihiliferJeffrey4l: ah, you're right, sorry...16:56
SamYapleyou can move section options though, so we can deprecate all the options out of [kolla-build]16:57
nihiliferok, so i'm +1 for deprecating16:57
Jeffrey4lhttp://paste.openstack.org/show/482506/ here is the reaon.16:57
Jeffrey4ls/reaon/reason/16:57
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nihiliferJeffrey4l: yep, that's right16:58
SamYapleyea and we can deprecate that stuff out in N16:58
SamYaplewe just have a waiting game on our hands16:58
nihiliferok, so anyone is against making a deprecated [kolla-build] section and putting the stuff in [DEFAULT] too?16:58
Jeffrey4l*deprecating* means it is works in both [DEFAULT] ans [kolla-build]. And should be remove in the future.16:59
Jeffrey4lright?16:59
SamYapleyes16:59
nihiliferyes16:59
Jeffrey4lOK.16:59
Jeffrey4lI think this is fine.16:59
SamYapleagreed16:59
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nihilifercool. anything else to discuuss about oslo.config?17:00
Jeffrey4li have no.17:00
SamYapleJeffrey4l: are you taking on the work?17:00
Jeffrey4lJeffrey4l, what do u mean?17:01
nihiliferJeffrey4l: whether you'll continue work on it :)17:01
inc0will you do this we just talked about?;)17:01
SamYapleI think he is asking himself17:01
Jeffrey4lnihilifer, yes.17:01
inc0ok, thanks!17:01
nihilifercool17:01
SamYapleawesome then I have no futher questions your honor17:01
Jeffrey4lI will push a commit soon.17:02
inc0so, may I take over?17:02
nihilifernext thing i'd like to discuss17:02
inc0ok go on nihilifer17:02
nihiliferin kolla-mesos we're currently using docker images from here https://hub.docker.com/r/mesoscloud/17:02
nihiliferto set up mesos17:02
nihiliferthese images are outdated in terms of i.e. version of marathon17:03
nihiliferi took a look on images from https://hub.docker.com/r/mesosphere/17:03
nihiliferbut one of them has no open repo available...17:03
nihiliferand mesos from mesosphere images doesn't work with docker17:04
nihiliferso...17:04
nihiliferi'd like to create own dockerfiles17:04
inc0I'm ok with that17:04
SamYaple+217:04
nihiliferand i'm thinking about putting them into main kolla repo17:04
inc0you can deploy them with kolla-ansible ;)17:04
nihiliferand to build them with kolla-build17:04
SamYaplenihilifer: i am under the personal opinion that all docker files should go in kolla main repo17:04
nihiliferSamYaple: i have same opinion17:05
inc0I'm ok with having our own mesos dockerfiles17:05
SamYapleall deploy tools (kolla-ansible kolla-mesos kolla-kubernetes) should not have dockerfiles17:05
inc0we can control version pins and everything17:05
nihilifercool17:05
inc0yeah we might want to deploy mesos with ansible, this wouldn't be that bad really17:05
nihiliferinc0: yep, we can try it17:06
inc0having easy way to deploy everything from scratch would be good for kolla-mesos17:06
nihiliferthat may help with multinode installation of mesos17:07
inc0I thing currently biggest barrier of it is that you can't do something you can with kolla-ansible - deploy everything with one command17:07
SamYaplenihilifer: one question here17:07
SamYaplewill these mesos images still be able to follwo the 1-pid per container, or would they require supervisord?17:07
nihilifer1-pid per container17:07
SamYapleok cool17:07
elemoineone image for mesos, one for marathon and one for zookeeper I guess17:08
nihiliferelemoine: there will be separate images for mesos-master and mesos-slave17:08
elemoineyeah, right17:08
SamYaplethe zookeeper container may be useful for kolla-ansible as well17:09
nihiliferbut yeah, zookeeper will go to the sepatate image17:09
nihiliferand chronos as well17:09
nihiliferok, so if we're fine with that17:10
SamYaplealright weve got 20 minutes left and I have a subject to bring up17:10
* britthouser hopes its mid-cycle dates17:10
* nihilifer hopes too17:10
inc0I lost my hopes17:10
SamYaplesdake was supposed to handle that a month ago.17:10
SamYaplewhere do you guys want to vote on dates?17:11
SamYapleill set something up today17:11
inc0whenisgood?17:11
SamYapleis that a website?17:11
inc0http://whenisgood.net/17:11
SamYapleok ill look at that, sometime in febuary is all i know, i dont care when17:12
SamYaplethat wasnt the subject though17:12
britthouser=)17:12
inc0just put whole month there17:12
SamYapleinc0: if you know how to use that site, do you want to do that?17:12
britthouserthe last I haerd from sdake was last week in Jan?17:12
SamYaplebritthouser: since im hosting that date is news to me17:13
nihiliferbritthouser: i hope no, it may collide with fosdem :(17:13
britthouserlol....I'll go with what you say. =)17:13
SamYapleok something will go out today with dates, ill see to it personally17:13
britthouserthx. =)17:14
SamYapleNow what i wanted to talk about was named volumes with docker17:14
SamYapleif you use docker 1.9.x and do `docker volume ls` youll see all the volumes on your system17:14
SamYapleyou can create named voluems as well17:14
SamYapleso we can actually get rid of these data containers we have17:14
SamYaplethis doesn't require anything on the container side of things, so it shouldnt affect mesos17:15
SamYaplebut it does mean we have to run our own docker module17:15
britthouserIs the named volume functionally equivalent to data container?17:15
inc0http://whenisgood.net/qrb4db917:15
SamYaplebritthouser: the data contaienr previously was the only way to keep track of a volume17:16
SamYaplethis way you can name a volume and reference it by name17:16
SamYaplethanks inc0 looks good17:17
inc0I'll pop a ML17:17
SamYapleinc0: do you have the address?17:17
inc0and for the record, I'm +2 on our own docker module17:17
inc0SamYaple, just the poll17:17
inc0if you want to pop a mail with full detail17:18
nihilifertotally +2 for named volumes and docker module17:18
inc0that will be better17:18
inc0there is one big problem with our own docker module tho17:18
SamYapleok well the reason i bring it up is because we can't be 1:1 with the docker module upstream which people wanted17:18
SamYaplei never did, but it was brought up17:18
britthouserSounds like a better solution.  I was just thinking about backup/upgrade/etc.  Does named volume change any of that?17:18
SamYaplebritthouser: it helps it alot, yes17:18
inc0so problem is17:19
inc0according to GPLv317:19
inc0our own docker module cannot be based in any way on upstream docker module17:20
SamYapleit is not17:20
SamYaplei have written it from scratch17:20
SamYaplei havent even used the same arg names17:20
inc0to a point that technically if someone saw original one17:20
inc0he/she can't write new one as "inspiration" might also be treated as licence breakage17:20
SamYaplewell we can just throw out all of ansible then. the only documentation for alot of the module code is lookin at other modules17:21
inc0and if so, kolla will have to be turn to gplv3, which means removal from openstack namespace17:21
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SamYapleim not worried about this inc0. it is an original module17:21
inc0SamYaple, I'm just saying how that looks like in legal eyes17:21
SamYaplethen basically all of OSA would be gone. and Kolla to (we have code like this)17:22
SamYapleand any other ansible project honeslty17:22
inc0all I'm saying, when we do write our own docker module, we need to be careful about that17:22
SamYapleeven more reason to not try to 1:1 parity the options17:22
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inc0yeah17:23
SamYaplesome names overlap like 'name' or 'image' but past that its my own creation17:23
SamYapleI am not worried about a licensing problem, but ill make sure to not look at the docker module while writing it ;)17:23
inc0yeah;)17:24
inc0all is clear Sam?17:24
inc0can we move on?17:24
SamYapleok well the docker module is almost done, so you should see a patchset in the next few days17:24
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SamYapleyup im good17:24
inc0cool, thanks17:24
nihilifercool17:24
inc0so17:24
inc0https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257568/ -> this is first ready play17:24
inc0for upgrades17:24
inc0this is keystone17:25
inc0it's important as it will provide standard and template for other services17:25
inc0so once again please we need as much eyes on this one as possible17:25
inc0if we merge this one, I'll pop a ML thread "upgrade open season is open"17:26
inc0to encourage everyone to take on one of projects and write upgrade playbook on it17:26
inc0sounds good to you guys>17:27
britthouserYup.17:27
akwasnieyes17:27
inc0ok, 3 minutes left, anyone else?17:27
britthouserAustin Summit: looks like hotels are ready for booking17:27
britthouserthat is all17:28
nihiliferquick notice17:28
nihiliferthat i left a comment on k8s blueprint17:28
inc0ah, also speaker proposal is open17:28
nihiliferi found a way to run bootstrap tasks in k8s17:28
inc0cool!17:28
nihiliferso no need of chronos or involving ansible on that17:28
inc0thanks17:29
nihiliferif Ryan will be ready, i'll be +2 for k8s17:29
inc0if you want to speak about kolla, let's get more presence on this summit17:29
britthouserI think Mesos would make a good topic17:29
inc0yeah, I'll try upgrades17:29
britthouserthat too!17:30
inc0ok guys, we ran out of time17:30
inc0thanks everyone17:30
britthousercya!17:30
nihiliferthx17:30
inc0#endmeeting kolla17:30
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akwasniebye17:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:30
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec 23 17:30:19 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:30
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-12-23-16.31.html17:30
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-12-23-16.31.txt17:30
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/kolla/2015/kolla.2015-12-23-16.31.log.html17:30
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