Tuesday, 2013-03-12

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vipulalmost meeting time21:00
SlickNikeyah21:00
SlickNikyeah*21:00
vipulgot folks here?21:00
datsun180bI speak only for myself21:00
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grapexYo21:00
djohnstonehiya21:01
vipul#startmeeting Reddwarf21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 12 21:01:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is vipul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Reddwarf)"21:01
juicepresent21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'reddwarf'21:01
vipulagenda:21:01
vipul#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/RedDwarfMeeting21:01
cp16net\o21:01
SlickNikHere.21:01
vipulfeel free to update as necessary21:01
esmutehello21:01
vipul#topic action items21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "action items (Meeting topic: Reddwarf)"21:02
SlickNikhttp://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/reddwarf/2013/reddwarf.2013-03-05-21.59.html21:02
vipulok first one.. didn't update the snapshots wiki yet21:02
vipul#action vipul ot update Snapshots wiki to handle deleted in swift use case21:02
vipuli swear i was going to do it today21:02
vipulother stuff came up21:02
vipuloh well21:02
cp16netok sounds good21:03
vipulnext.. SlickNik21:03
SlickNikSecond one, I'm still working on Security Groups.21:03
grapexvipul: btw- robertmyers, imsplitbit and myself have a meeting tomorrow to look over that wiki article.21:03
SlickNikCleaning up, extending the client — writing int tests.21:03
vipulgrapex: awesome.. we've started some initial impl so appreciate any feedback21:03
imsplitbitgrapex, I was talking about it with him21:03
SlickNikI should have a patch out for review by end of tomorrow.21:04
grapexvipul: Cool - I noticed there was a commit for the schema. That may be premature, it's hard for me to review schema changes w/o the associated code.21:04
SlickNikI'd appreciate it if I can get multiple eyeballs on it after that. :)21:04
cp16net#agree with grapex21:04
datsun180b#agree21:04
vipulSlickNik: cool21:04
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grapexAlthough if several people need ot sync up on work haivng it merged would make it easier. I think the typical approach is to create a branch that everyone works from, then one person does a gerrit review for the whole thing on completion21:04
SlickNik#action SlickNik still working on Security-Groups. Hope to have patch up for review by Wed/Thu.21:04
vipulgrapex: regarding schema change.. i think we should strive for smaller patches.. makes things easier to reivew21:05
vipulbut i see the point about not having enough context21:05
vipulso maybe we need to find a good balance.. so maybe schema change + models code?21:05
vipuland then API later?21:05
grapexvipul: Yes, if the models code had some kind of unit tests on it21:05
grapexEnough just to show how it's used21:05
vipul#agreed21:06
SlickNikYeah, I like that. Schema + models has a bit more meat to it.21:06
cp16netsorry if i missed it was there docs around the schema changes?21:06
imsplitbitvipul I think the models code would def help21:06
cp16netso that we could see the path forawrd?21:06
vipulcp16net: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Snapshot-design21:06
vipul:p21:06
vipulyea we tried to get that captured in the wiki design doc21:06
cp16netok cool it looks like there is more there than when i last looked at it21:07
cp16netthanks21:07
vipulnp21:07
vipulok we'll get another review that's got more meat21:07
grapexSo the other thing regarding schema changes for a feature like snapshot- if throughout testing we discover there have been any mistakes, we'll we need to add additional migration files to tweak the schemas? Or is the plan to just change the one migration file created for that feature?21:07
vipulgrapex: that's a good point..21:08
vipulgrapex: i would be OK with changing the same migration..21:08
cp16netyeah i would rather it be a single change set at that point21:08
vipulthe only thing is we shoudl coordinate to make sure it's not deployed21:08
juiceI think it would be best to just wrap it on one21:08
juiceor update the original21:08
grapexvipul: Me too, but internally at Rack I'd need to make sure I didn't put that code in the release until the feature was under wraps to keep ops from any headaches21:08
vipulmaybe that can be communicated during the review..21:08
imsplitbitone works as long as it isn't already deployed21:09
vipulgrapex: yea, shoudl be fine until we get other people deploying it21:09
grapexWell, headaches is an exageration, it wouldn't be that bad really, just wouldn't want to run the migration before the feature is used.21:09
cp16neti know adding that once its deployed you cant change those migration scripts21:09
imsplitbitcause ti will be a pain to fix... yeah what grapex said21:09
* cp16net been there....21:09
* imsplitbit done that21:09
vipulyea, so maybe the rule of thumb is change existing, and if anyone has concerns that can be xpressed in review21:09
vipulat which point we can split it out to a new migration21:09
SlickNikgrapex: I'd don't think you guys would want a half feature (i.e. only models code) in release anyhow. But yes, that's something to be wary about.21:09
grapexvipul: Sounds good.21:10
vipulgrapex: another question regarding the shcema21:10
vipuldo you guys do constraints on your migrations?21:10
vipulor something that you handle out of sqlalchemy or not do at all21:10
vipuli think most of openstack there really aren't constraints expressed in the migrate scripts21:11
grapexvipul: We actually just use the sqlalchemy stuff directly and 80% have no issues21:11
jcooleyconstraints are a pain because existing data can set them off.21:11
grapex20% we talk to Ops and do it by hand I think.21:11
grapexOh, I see.21:11
vipuljcooley: agree, so maybe we don't do constraints in reddwarf either21:12
grapexI think once I tried to add non-null constraints and ran into problems.21:12
vipulok action21:12
grapexSeems like a good idea honestly if we could get them to work.21:13
jcooleyyep, worse is there are NULL values and someone applies a non-NULL constraint.  then you crash.21:13
cp16neti dont remember either21:13
jcooleyhappens frequently when you add columns to a table. :)21:13
vipulfor simple things like unique constraints, we might want to add those...21:13
vipuljust no fkey, etc21:13
SlickNikI think FK constraints are goodness too for things that make sense (like ids)21:14
vipulas long as those constraints as defined when the table is first created not added later21:14
esmutei did add unique constraint in the quota table21:14
SlickNikYes, agreed21:14
SlickNikYou'd run into most problems when trying to add constraints to pre-existing data.21:14
vipulyep..21:15
vipulok next action was mine as well21:15
vipul#action vipul to submit snapshots API to database-api docs21:15
esmuteyes21:15
vipuldid not complete21:15
vipulnext item: grapex21:15
vipuldid you learn how to use action?21:15
vipulheh21:15
grapexNo, I forgot. :(21:15
SlickNikthat was hubcap's action, I think… :)21:15
SlickNikto "teach" grapex...21:16
grapexAs for that decorator, I did some thinking and closed the blueprint.21:16
SlickNikslacker...21:16
grapexI was thinking, adding a decorator like that defeats the purpose of gating on tests.21:16
vipuldecorator to only run tests against certain versions?21:16
grapexvipul: yes21:16
vipuli hope we solved the client issue21:16
vipulby making it pull directly from github21:17
grapexIt's frustrating, but if we disable tests on brand new features we could check in tests that fail to work and not realize it until we tick up the client version later.21:17
espgrapex: maybe the change we make to reddwarf's pip-requires will be enough to keep the client in sync21:17
grapexIt seems a better solution is to keep them in Gerrit purgatory until everything is ready to go.21:17
espI've been trying to check in client changes first..21:17
datsun180bRight21:17
grapexesp vipul: I think the git change vipul merged will really help us.21:17
vipulesp: yea if we stick to that pattern, seems like we'll be ok21:17
grapexit sucks for the person submitting the feature but will ultimately benefit the wider team21:18
datsun180b#agree21:18
vipulok last item: SlickNik21:18
SlickNikI'm not sure I'm a fan of the decorator myself, so as much as I don't like gerrit purgatory, I think that might be the better option here.21:18
vipultrimming redstack21:18
SlickNikI looked into refactoring redstack, and started on it...21:19
grapexSlickNik: Nothing more fun than refactoring bash eh?21:19
SlickNikGrapex, let's just say It's a little hairier than I thought :)21:19
datsun180bBetter than refactoring awk21:19
vipulit woudl be good to know some of the 'other' functions in redstack are used by anyone21:19
grapexdatsub180b: Or batch files.21:19
vipullike start-deps, etc21:20
SlickNikI'll probably have done after this sec-groups stuff (hopefully by end of this week)21:20
grapexvipul: We end up using some functions for internal things, mostly billing testing.21:20
grapexAnd personall I call stop and start-deps frequently when making changes to Nova.21:21
SlickNikThe issue is that there is a lot of code that is "slightly" different… So I'm trying to find most of so I can de-dupe and reduce the footprint..21:21
vipulgrapex: we should trim if we can anywhere.. maybe we need them though21:21
vipulSlickNik: do you have a bug/bp for that?21:21
SlickNikYes, I have a bug…one sec...21:21
vipulmaybe we can get grapex to comment on that bug with stuff they use or don't21:21
SlickNik#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/reddwarf-integration/+bug/115417021:21
SlickNik#action SlickNik working on trimming down redstack to use local.sh https://bugs.launchpad.net/reddwarf-integration/+bug/115417021:22
vipulawesome21:22
vipulthanks!21:22
vipulok that's it for action items...21:23
SlickNiknp.21:23
vipul#topic limits updates21:23
*** openstack changes topic to "limits updates (Meeting topic: Reddwarf)"21:23
vipulmost of the limits stuff is merged21:23
espso I'm in the middle of some fixin'21:23
espshould be done between today and tomorrow.21:23
vipulsweet21:24
espI had to refactor view code in the API and Client to get it working with XML21:24
grapexesp: Nice.21:24
vipulgood timing on the xml tests grapex21:24
espyeah should be less crusty..21:24
vipulprobably wouldn't have been caught til much later21:24
vipulesp: lol21:24
grapexvipul: Thanks Vipul, we've had some issues lately at Rack so I figured I'd flip them on.21:25
espxml is soo 90's21:25
vipuldo other openstack projects support xml?21:25
grapexlol, yeah, there are many "Enterprise Professionals" in suits who will be happy ours works. :)21:25
vipuljust curious, not sure what the stance is there21:25
grapexvipul: In theory. ;)21:25
grapexThey all do, I'm just kidding21:25
grapexremember that talk we went to about improving support though?21:25
grapexApparently there are some issues21:26
grapexbtw21:26
grapexI should probably talk about this a bit21:26
vipulyea it seems like everyone wants to drop support21:26
cp16netoh yeah...  haha21:26
vipulbut obviously that's a huge change so they can't21:26
cp16netxml support in nova no one could agree it sounded like21:26
cp16netyeah21:26
grapexWell the other projects have XML and JSON views that are very different21:26
imsplitbitesp totally, I feel retro when I use it21:26
grapexwhere as most of our views "just work" in XML with a small bit of serialization configuration21:26
grapexI feel like we've lucked out21:27
espimsplit: yep. listening to Toto as I code it.21:27
espoh wait, that's more 80's21:27
imsplitbityeah21:27
vipulgrapex: Yea, it's nice not having to maintain two separate views21:27
imsplitbitbut funny nonetheless21:27
imsplitbitI'm all for use JSON or go home21:27
grapexby the way, I'm testing this out internally before I subject you guys to it, but I think it may be possible to use a tool like XmlLint or Json schema in conjunction with the client. I have code that I'm running now that extends the client to save the request / response text into files21:27
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vipulbut i think esp found some assumptions that were made.. like the depth of the tree21:28
grapexmy next goal is to run xmllint and json schema against it to make sure the old XSD is accurate... whether it is is a bit of a mystery now. :)21:28
espgrapex: probably a good idea.21:28
grapexvipul: True. For something like limits that was taken from Nova, it may require work to make the views correct in both.21:29
vipulgrapex: so would that be permanent in rdclient? or just a one time thing to test accuracy against xsd21:29
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grapexif I get this working I'm not sure where we'd run it... I might just write up publicly how to do it so when we have real mode in CI on Jenkins somewhere we can kick it off.21:29
esmutebut the 80's was such a great decade. ET, Nintendo, Thundercats and no Justin Beaver21:29
vipulLOL21:29
grapexIt would use rdclient but the extra code is in the tests. Its just one class, pretty slim.21:29
espesmute: true, there were some good moments in there.21:29
espesmute: I think you might have had a better childhood than me.21:30
vipulgrapex: Yea, it may be good to have it part of CI but may not be necessary to have validation in the client?21:30
grapexesmute: The really sad thing is that if they made a Thundercats movie today Jerry Bruckheimer would direct and Justin beaver would be the main star.21:30
vipulwho's justin beaver21:30
vipullol21:30
grapexvipul: Yeah, don't worry, I won't burden the client code / repo with that code.21:30
esmuteoh no god no21:31
vipulevil twin of justin beiber?21:31
grapexvipul: Anyway, I'll keep you guys up to date on how it goes.21:31
esplol21:31
vipulgrapex: ok cool21:31
SlickNikYou don't know Justin Beaver? Dam….21:31
esmutehaha. Where is the auto-spell-correcting bot here?21:32
cp16net grapex action?21:32
grapexesmute: Ha! I spelled it that way too. And yet, I feel no shame in getting it wrong... :)21:32
vipulgood call cp16net21:32
SlickNikGrapex, that sounds good…21:32
SlickNik(both the xml and no shame parts)21:33
vipuloh sorry, hub_cap didn't 'teach' you about action21:33
* grapex Look into validating the API with XmlLint and Json schema.21:33
vipul#action grapex to look into xml validation21:33
vipuldone21:33
grapexvipul: Thanks. :)21:33
vipul#topic Security Groups update21:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Security Groups update (Meeting topic: Reddwarf)"21:34
SlickNikAlready covered this earlier.21:34
vipulk cool..21:34
SlickNikExpect a patch up for review soon.21:34
vipulnice21:34
SlickNik(by Thursday more concretely)21:35
vipul#action Snapshots Update21:35
vipulwhoops21:35
vipul#topic Snapshots Update21:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Snapshots Update (Meeting topic: Reddwarf)"21:35
vipul#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Snapshot-design21:35
vipulgrapex, imsplitbit please review ^^21:35
vipulappreciate feedback on that..21:35
juiceswift client is about wrapped up21:36
juicewent with the good ol' fake21:36
grapexvipul: We're looking today, we'll have a meeting tomorrow over it.21:36
juicerealizing that being new to python and making some big changes doesn't make good chemistry21:36
vipulTo recap some of the discussion i had with imsplit bit, we're supporting point in time backups and recovery to 'that' point in time.  Not supporting point-in-time recovery (restore to 5 mins ago)21:37
vipulrecovery is to a new instance only21:37
grapexvipul: This is for snapshots?21:37
vipulyes21:37
juiceso the user just can't pick the "snapshot" they want and say restore?21:37
vipuljuice: exactly21:37
vipuljuice: they get exactly what the snapshot contained21:38
grapexOk, cool21:38
cp16netin a new instance21:38
grapexSo btw21:38
grapexin the end, this is going to be a call to the guest that will upload a file to swift, right?21:38
juicehow much storage do they get in swift and what happens when a snapshot will exceed those contents?21:38
juicegrapex: yes21:38
SlickNikyes grapex, that's the idea...21:38
vipulgrapex: Yea, so we'll zip+upload21:38
vipuljuice: we'll need to look into chunking21:39
vipuljuice: i believe swiftclient already does this for you21:39
juicechunking the post21:39
vipulif > 5 gigs21:39
juicefor performance?21:39
juiceah21:39
cp16netjuice: thats a good point because you may have to chop up the zip21:39
vipulwhich i think is the max file size21:39
cp16netobject file size21:39
grapexif you guys add a fake method to the guest in fake mode, you should be able to write even the integration tests soon. In fake mode I think all the API will do is say "sure!" when you ask it to upload a a snapshot21:39
vipulyea think that's the max limit in swift? could be wrong21:39
juiceyes 5gb is the max size (which isn't the same for folks like was)21:39
grapexvipul: sorry if this is in the wiki, but is the idea to use the action stuff hub_cap was looking at?21:40
juiceat least it is stated as such and I have tried on occasion to exceed it when storing season one of walking dead21:40
vipulgrapex: No, currently we don't have the framework for that in place21:40
vipulgrapex: we could come back aorund and add the hooks into what hub_cap submit?21:41
SlickNikI wonder if we can do something cool with incremental block delta storage. (Might have to come in later).21:41
grapexvipul: I think so21:41
grapexThe action stuff he showed me, which is in Nova now, looks like it might solve a lot of the issues we've had with asynchronous actions so far21:41
cp16netoh yeah that would be awesome21:42
grapexvipul: Too bad he's been moving, as soon as he get's back I'll let him know to sync up with you guys.21:42
vipulgrapex: Ok, yea i need to spend more time looking into the nova feature, i knnow he tried to explain it last meeting i think21:42
cp16net#action hub_cap to sync up with vipul on the nova (instance_actions/task_actions)21:43
vipulgrapex: I think there is also some open questions around myISAM.. which we will support.. but it's just a binary copy of the files (wht xtrabackup)21:43
vipulalso means your db is locked21:44
vipulduring that copy21:44
vipulwhich is something we don't have to worry about when you do xtrabckup against innodb21:44
vipuljust stuff to think about when you guys review the spec21:44
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grapexvipul: Ok, we'll look into it and get back to you sometime tomorrow or Thursday.21:45
vipulok cool21:45
grapexI'll print out that wiki article and read it with some fine cognac and a slice of cheese.21:45
vipul#action annashen to amend patch to include models + tests w/migrate script21:45
vipulgrapex: you might need some tequila just for good measure21:46
vipulok anything with snapshots?21:46
vipulif not...21:46
SlickNiknope, sounds good.21:46
grapexvipul: Some shots to go along with snapshots?21:46
vipulheh21:46
espgrapex: I think I would read more wiki articles if I did it your way :)21:46
SlickNikheh21:47
vipul#topic Releasing python-reddwarfclient21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Releasing python-reddwarfclient (Meeting topic: Reddwarf)"21:47
vipulso i put this in there just cuz there was some confusion around how to release21:47
vipuland the new process21:47
vipulSlickNik made a patch to openstack-ci to support auto-releasing of python-reddwarfclient on a git tag21:47
vipul#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release-python-reddwarfclient#Releasing_python-reddwarfclient21:48
datsun180bI remember seeing that21:48
grapexBtw, thanks SlickNik!21:48
vipulI tried to capture what i know of the process ^21:48
grapexvipul: So as to frequency: I feel like the client almost never becomes backwards incompatable21:48
datsun180bSeems to be the case21:49
vipulgist of it is.. anyone in reddwarf-core can push a tag to gerrit 'git tag 1.1.1', 'git push --tags gerrit'21:49
grapexHow would you all feel to a release following the completion of each new feature?21:49
SlickNikThere's two things that come into effect when you tag a changeset in git and push it to gerrit...21:49
datsun180bhow do we put the fire of someone accidentally tagging a busted release with a numeric version21:49
datsun180bi assume I'm going to do that twice21:49
grapexdatsun180b: We write their name on the board or add a line to it. At five strikes we call their parents.21:50
datsun180bi guess gerrit will catch it first?21:50
esphmm..so can we post tag?21:50
datsun180bgrapex: what if batman does it21:50
esplol21:50
vipuldatsun180b: i think you may need to push twice to replace the 'bad' version21:50
SlickNik1. If the tag matches an alpanumeric regex of the form d*.d*.d*.<word>d*, it is a pre-release and will make a tarball and upload it to tarballs.openstack.org21:51
espgotcha21:51
cp16netoh thats awesome21:51
SlickNik(where <word> is alpha/beta/a/b/c/d/e/g21:51
clarkbtags should be treated as immutable fwiw21:51
clarkbyou cannot garuntee that a tag that is moved will update sanely everywhere21:52
datsun180bthat's very important21:52
SlickNik2. If the tag matches a release version such as 0.1.2, it's treated as a release and will tarball and also upload to pypi...21:52
grapexclarkb: Will it also push the docs to PyPi?21:52
SlickNikRight now it doesn't push the docs, grapex.21:53
clarkbno docs. there are docs jobs that do other things21:53
grapexSlickNik: Ok.21:53
clarkbyou can have a job to do that in theory though21:53
vipulclarkb: what's the relationship between the version='xx' in setup.py and git tag 'version'21:54
clarkbrtfd and docs.o.o are currently supported21:54
vipulis there one that takes precedence?21:54
clarkbvipul you shouldnt use a hard coded on anymore21:54
clarkbusing oslo you get dynamic versions based on git tags. mordred knows all about it because he wrote it21:55
vipulAh yes.. ok21:55
vipulso we should probably setup.py from olso in too..21:55
SlickNikgrapex/clarkb, there might be some figuring out to do with credentials for the pypi upload, so we might need to flush that out when we're ready to release to pypi...21:55
vipul#action vipul to look into bringing in setup.py from oslo into python-reddwarfclient so version remains dynamic21:55
grapexSlickNik: Ok.21:56
grapexclarkb SlickNik vipul: Thanks for all your work on this.21:56
vipulyup thanks guys21:56
SlickNiknp, anytime!21:57
cp16net+121:57
SlickNikthanks clarkb!21:57
vipulok anything else about versioning/releasing client?21:57
vipulbtw, reddwarf doens't use either, it pulls tarball from github directly21:58
SlickNikI'll update that wiki page with the actual release/pre-release regexp locations for reference…21:58
vipulyes, please do SlickNik, thanks21:58
vipul#topic Open Discussion21:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Reddwarf)"21:58
vipulanything else we need to cover21:59
SlickNik#action update the release wiki page with regexps for release/pre-release21:59
SlickNik#action ^^^ SlickNik21:59
SlickNiknope, nothing else from my end.21:59
vipulwow look at that we might make time21:59
grapexvipul: We are on fire today!22:00
vipulw00t22:00
SlickNikhellz yea!22:00
cp16nethave a great day ev122:00
vipul#endmeeting22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate) || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 12 22:00:31 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/reddwarf/2013/reddwarf.2013-03-12-21.01.html22:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/reddwarf/2013/reddwarf.2013-03-12-21.01.txt22:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/reddwarf/2013/reddwarf.2013-03-12-21.01.log.html22:00
vipul1 hour exactly22:00
cp16netpeace out22:00
vipullater22:00
esp:)22:00
SlickNiknice. later guys.. thanks!22:00
juicewhere is kaganos?22:01
juicekagan?22:01
juice:)22:01
kagani'm here22:01
vipulkagan's just happy he's not talking about percona anymore22:01
juiceno questions :)22:01
kaganok then ...22:01
kagananyone actually created a percona image so far ?22:01
juicethat's a wrap22:01
espkagan: on my list.  I tried last week but my env was hosed.22:02
kagani guess that means "no" … ;)22:02
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grapexAwesome. Talk to you later guys!22:04
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juicesee ya grapex22:08
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mordredvipul, grapex: I'm just now changing all of that - ping me before you do work on setup.py23:41
grapexmordred: Thanks for the heads up! I'll pass it along.23:52
SlickNikwill do, mordred...23:54
mordredgrapex, SlickNik: I mean, you should DEFINITELY get on the oslo version bandwagon - I just made is 100% better yesterday and it's not released/landed yet23:54
mordredyou're gonna think it's SO SEXY23:54
SlickNikw00t, let me check it those curves on gerrit…23:55
*** vipul is now known as vipul|away23:56
SlickNikmordred: is this it? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/24033/23:58

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