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| kiall | Heya | 16:58 |
|---|---|---|
| eankutse | eankutse here | 16:58 |
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| vinodmr | vinod here | 16:59 |
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| kiall | #startmeeting Designate | 16:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Sep 4 16:59:33 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'designate' | 16:59 |
| kiall | Heya | 16:59 |
| kiall | Who's about? :) | 16:59 |
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| mugsie | o/ | 17:00 |
| betsy | o/ | 17:00 |
| kiall | Okay - so a few of us :) simonmcc / capttofu are AFK at the moment, not sure if they'll be joining us today | 17:01 |
| kiall | Let's get started so.. | 17:01 |
| kiall | #topic API v2.0 Progress | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API v2.0 Progress (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:01 | |
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| kiall | Progress here has stalled - We've been dealing with lots of internal stuff over the last week or so ... Much more than usual! | 17:02 |
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| * CaptTofu o | 17:02 | |
| kiall | I've not had enough hours in the day to get the records side of the V2 API done (or even started) | 17:03 |
| eankutse | :-) | 17:03 |
| kiall | But - It's on my list for this week. | 17:03 |
| kiall | mugsie has been working on some V2 related stuff, which we can get to in a bit! | 17:03 |
| kiall | Anyway - Just wanted to give a quick update on that... | 17:03 |
| kiall | #topic Async State Transitions | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Async State Transitions (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:03 | |
| eankutse | thx | 17:04 |
| kiall | So - This is what mugsie has been working on since he started with HP last week, and it ties in with both the API v2 and Async-Backends | 17:04 |
| kiall | mugsie: want to give an intro to the current plan/progress? | 17:04 |
| mugsie | I am currently working on the design of the async backends | 17:04 |
| mugsie | I should have some docs up on a wiki page fairly soon, but i will give a quick overview | 17:05 |
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| mugsie | The idea is, that when a back end operation happens, the back end is given a ticket | 17:05 |
| mugsie | and when the operation is complete we send the ticket back to central, and mark it as complete in the designate DB | 17:06 |
| eankutse | ineresting... | 17:06 |
| mugsie | now there is some flow issues, an trying to make sure we dont edn up with inconsistant data | 17:06 |
| mugsie | but that is the genral gist | 17:06 |
| mugsie | now, these tickets are completely internal to designate | 17:07 |
| mugsie | so theuser just sees a 202 Accepted responce | 17:07 |
| eankutse | mugsie: so what are examples of backend ops? | 17:07 |
| mugsie | and when they query designate, it will show pending until it is active,at which piint the status will change | 17:07 |
| mugsie | creation / update / delete of domains / record | 17:08 |
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| mugsie | records* | 17:08 |
| kiall | Any operation which changes something you query on port 53 basically ;) | 17:08 |
| betsy | Is any of this on any of the blueprints on launcpad? | 17:08 |
| vinodmr | What is the response that the user sees with a 202 - how do they get the link to query for status? | 17:08 |
| mugsie | betsy: not yet, but should be by beginning of next week | 17:09 |
| betsy | cool | 17:09 |
| mugsie | maybe then end of this one | 17:09 |
| kiall | vinodmr: so, the "ticket" is more for intenal tracking of the operation within designate.. and end-user will never see the ticket ID etc, only "status = PENDING" vs "status = ACTIVE" in the API | 17:09 |
| betsy | but will the user receive a link to check status? | 17:10 |
| mugsie | vinodmr: the link will be the "self" item in the responce | 17:10 |
| mugsie | and when they get that link it will have a status field | 17:10 |
| betsy | ok | 17:10 |
| vinodmr | I am trying to understand why we need a separate ticket id. | 17:10 |
| mugsie | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44730/ is the beginning work of this | 17:10 |
| vinodmr | Can we not use the self link to communicate the status? | 17:11 |
| mugsie | vinodmr: this is for when a backend is not doing the operations instantly | 17:11 |
| kiall | vinodmr: well, the status would be included alongside the self link, and re-querying the self link would return the full resource, again, including the status field | 17:12 |
| kiall | Similar to how while booting a Nova instance, it will go to "BUILD", then eventually "ACTIVE" | 17:12 |
| vinodmr | i meant can we use the domain/record it itself to communicate status between the backend and central? | 17:12 |
| vinodmr | *id | 17:13 |
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| vinodmr | at any given time, can there be multiple operations outstanding for the same domain/record id? | 17:14 |
| mugsie | vinodmr: this allows for multiple operations to be used | 17:14 |
| mugsie | so say creating a record and domain | 17:14 |
| mugsie | so both need to be done in the right order | 17:14 |
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| betsy | but isn't there a domain id and a record id already? | 17:15 |
| mugsie | yeap, but we could have multiple operations happening on a single item | 17:15 |
| mugsie | so the domain should not go to active untillall have completed | 17:16 |
| kiall_ | So, the "ticket" helps tie things like - 5x create records in a row, and only when all tickets for the domain are complete, should it move back to "ACTIVE" | 17:16 |
| kiall_ | even though those 5 records themselves would go to ACTIVE as soon as they are pushed out | 17:16 |
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| kiall_ | Anyway! Graham is still working through the docs for how this ties together, hopefully things will be clearer once they get pushed to the wiki/a blueprint | 17:17 |
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| mugsie | yeah, we can talk about it when the docs go up | 17:18 |
| betsy | looking forward to the docs | 17:18 |
| eankutse | mugsie: thx | 17:19 |
| vinodmr | one last question - so in this e.g. would the user first send a create request for a domain and then a create request for 5 records or would it be one request with a create for a domain and 5 records? | 17:19 |
| kiall_ | #action mugsie to finish+publish docs on async backends/tickets/etc | 17:19 |
| kiall_ | vinodmr: so, with the v2 API as is today, create domain can't contain any RecordSets | 17:20 |
| kiall_ | But.. They could create the 5 records in 1 create RRSet request, or maybe 2 in one RRSet, and the rest in another etc.. | 17:20 |
| kiall_ | But - even if it could, all the RRSets/Records in a zone should be live before the zone swiches back to ACTIVE... | 17:21 |
| kiall_ | Okay :) Well - Things should get clearer once the docs go out.. We can discuss again once they go up in #openstack-dns :) | 17:22 |
| vinodmr | Thanks kiall and mugsie, I will wait for the docs for further clarification and I will look at the changeset that mugsie pointed to | 17:22 |
| kiall_ | #topic "Verifing" Domain Ownership | 17:23 |
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| Kiall | #topic "Verifing" Domain Ownership | 17:23 |
| Kiall | Ugh | 17:23 |
| Kiall | Okay - so justinsb suggested this, and I | 17:23 |
| Kiall | wanted to get your opinions on it | 17:23 |
| Kiall | Does RAX have any requirement for verifying ownership of a domain before accepting/serving a domain? | 17:24 |
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| kiall | #topic "Verifing" Domain Ownership | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ""Verifing" Domain Ownership (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:24 | |
| kiall | There we go :) | 17:24 |
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| CaptTofu | heh | 17:25 |
| simonmcc | so this is a larger DNS hosting issue - how does it affect Designate? | 17:25 |
| vinodmr | how big/common of a problem is this? | 17:26 |
| simonmcc | other than providing tooling to support a decision process or correction process? | 17:26 |
| kiall | vinodmr: well, I don't personally see it as a major issue.. To me, it's something for support teams to handle. | 17:26 |
| jmcbride | In a multi tenant environment, we think it is important that if a customer creates "microsoft.com", another customer can not create "hijack.microsft.com" | 17:26 |
| kiall | If Yahoo! registers google.com in one of our services, and Google decides that one of us is the best for DNS, we have a problem... The Q is, should be be providing for automation of this conflict resolution? | 17:27 |
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| kiall | jmcbride: absolutely - we prevent that scenario today | 17:27 |
| simonmcc | how do you prevent it? | 17:28 |
| kiall | But.. I think we have a bug that if someone reghisters bla.example.com, another tenant can nab example.com .. | 17:28 |
| simonmcc | conflict resolution involves somebody making a decision & then deleting the 'illegal zones' | 17:28 |
| kiall | I've yet to validate if that's actually an issue though | 17:28 |
| vinodmr | from what i saw in the chat yesterday, this looks to be very involved and the best thing at this point would be to resolve this issues through support | 17:28 |
| mugsie | simonmcc: for some of them they ask you to create a cname record, then test if its there | 17:29 |
| simonmcc | create a came for a zone you're trying to get hosted? or create the came in the parent? | 17:29 |
| kiall | vinodmr: I tend to agree, there are ways of making it work 100% automated.. But I'm not sure there something we could "force" on everyone.. | 17:29 |
| betsy | yeah or a txt record | 17:29 |
| kiall | #link http://blog.cloudflare.com/whats-the-story-behind-the-names-of-cloudflares-name-servers | 17:29 |
| mugsie | simonmcc: in the parent zone, unless you use an inbuilt registrar | 17:30 |
| kiall | ^ that was a really interesting approach, but 100% somthing we can't bake into designate as a requirement | 17:30 |
| kiall | betsy: well, the issue with a TXT record is brand new domains don't have existing DNS :) | 17:30 |
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| kiall | Anyway - It sounds like you guys agree, this is out of scope | 17:30 |
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| simonmcc | agreed, out of scope | 17:32 |
| vinodmr | #agreed | 17:32 |
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| msisk | Yep. Big can of worms. ;) | 17:32 |
| betsy | agreed | 17:32 |
| kiall | Okay - Well, lets call that out of scope and move on so :) | 17:33 |
| jmcbride | agreed, the yahoo/google scenario is out of scope. However, we should consider the super domain scenario you described (bla.example.com and example.com). | 17:33 |
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| kiall | jmcbride: yea, I believe that is already covered - at least in one direction - I'll validate after this and file a bug if necessary | 17:33 |
| kiall | #topic Migration tools | 17:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Migration tools (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:33 | |
| kiall | jmcbride: you added this item :) | 17:34 |
| jmcbride | yes, I was curious if any tools exist today that allow a customer to easily grab zone files and migrate to Designate. | 17:34 |
| kiall | Ah - So.. At the moment, no. I have a proof on concept zone import/export | 17:35 |
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| kiall | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/designate/+spec/domain-import-export | 17:35 |
| kiall | But - It's full of holes! | 17:35 |
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| kiall | The blueprint ^ would cover feeling in, and exporting out BIND style config files.. | 17:36 |
| kiall | feeding* | 17:36 |
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| kiall | (It's open for the taking BTW :P) | 17:37 |
| kiall | I'd also love to be able to handle inbound AXFR's, allowing us to create "slave" zones that pull from a customers existing DNS servers | 17:37 |
| simonmcc | has anybody gone through cloud flare's process? do they just pick off www/mail/blog etc from your domain? | 17:38 |
| kiall | The CF "sucking existing records" process is awful IMO - it's grabbing only the well known names.. The interesting part is their conflict resolution/verification of ownership :) | 17:39 |
| simonmcc | inbound axfr would be a very nice feature, but I'm unsure how much use it would get? depends on your customer base, I suppose the bigger the customer, with more sophisticated users, it's more likely | 17:39 |
| kiall | It does probably attempt an AXFR against your DNS servers, but any well configured DNS server will reject that when it comes from $random IP :) | 17:40 |
| msisk | yeah, I haven't used AXFR in a long time -- it's blocked everywhere nowadays. | 17:40 |
| jmcbride | Sounds like AXFR should be a separate blueprint | 17:41 |
| mugsie | jmcbride: yup | 17:41 |
| kiall | simonmcc: yea, I see it as 2 things.. 1) A way to "import" and them, flip the "slave" -> "master" switch on the zone.. and 2) to allow for the bigger guys who might want to use HP DNS, or RAX DNS as a "DNS CDN" .. simply taking advantage of our POPs | 17:41 |
| simonmcc | yep | 17:41 |
| kiall | jmcbride: yea.. It's not happening anytime soon - unless you guys have the resources to handle it :) | 17:41 |
| CaptTofu | agreed | 17:42 |
| kiall | I've barely got bast the "That would be a useful thing" thoughts on it :) | 17:42 |
| kiall | I'm only mentioning it, as it semi-relates to importing of data :) | 17:42 |
| kiall | The other import option, is something in the client, rather than an API endpoint, that reads and creates the zone. | 17:42 |
| kiall | Anyway - The short answer is, no, we have no easy 1 step import at the moment.. But we do have a BP for 1 method :) | 17:44 |
| tsimmons | Cool, that would be useful. | 17:44 |
| kiall | Okay moving on :) | 17:44 |
| kiall | #topic Open Discussion | 17:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Designate)" | 17:44 | |
| kiall | i.e. the "Anyone got anything else?" part of the meeting :) | 17:45 |
| kiall | I think eankutse had some Q's earlier? | 17:45 |
| msisk | BTW, my proposal to do a presentation at http://openstack.onales.com on Designate has been accepted. ;) | 17:45 |
| simonmcc | congrats msisk! | 17:46 |
| kiall | Excellent! | 17:46 |
| msisk | Might need you folks to help me out once I get working on the slide deck. Guess I should start soon. ;) | 17:46 |
| kiall | Sure - Anytime :) | 17:46 |
| msisk | kiall: Thanks! | 17:47 |
| kiall | So .. Last call? :) | 17:48 |
| eankutse | Nothing from me | 17:48 |
| simonmcc | nothing from me | 17:49 |
| mugsie | ditto | 17:49 |
| betsy | same for me | 17:49 |
| kiall | Okay - Thanks all :) | 17:49 |
| eankutse | :-) | 17:49 |
| CaptTofu | thanks! | 17:50 |
| kiall | Will talk during the week, once mugsie gets the docs up | 17:50 |
| mugsie | o/ | 17:50 |
| kiall | probably before the next meet? | 17:50 |
| tsimmons | Good stuff | 17:50 |
| mugsie | yeah | 17:50 |
| kiall | #endmeeting | 17:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 17:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Sep 4 17:50:33 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2013/designate.2013-09-04-16.59.html | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2013/designate.2013-09-04-16.59.txt | 17:50 |
| eankutse | Great! Looking forward to it | 17:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2013/designate.2013-09-04-16.59.log.html | 17:50 |
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| arborism | does rax or hp have some customization (not public) regarding security groups in trove? There's some odd inconsistencies in the code, making it difficult to fix a bug. | 19:48 |
| arborism | whoops, wrong channel | 19:48 |
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| dmakogon_ | + | 20:01 |
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| imsplitbit | o/ | 20:01 |
| grapex | o/ | 20:02 |
| dmakogon_ | 0/ | 20:02 |
| robertmyers | o/ | 20:02 |
| dmakogon_ | o/ | 20:02 |
| SlickNik | #startmeeting trove | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Sep 4 20:02:15 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SlickNik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: trove)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'trove' | 20:02 |
| vipul | ;/ | 20:02 |
| robertmyers | o/ | 20:02 |
| vipul | ugh | 20:02 |
| dmakogon_ | what is the topic ? | 20:02 |
| SlickNik | Hello all | 20:02 |
| dmakogon_ | hi | 20:02 |
| imsplitbit | hola! | 20:02 |
| SlickNik | Agenda is at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TroveMeeting#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting | 20:02 |
| kevinconway | 707 | 20:02 |
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| SlickNik | Please update it if you have a topic you want to discuss. | 20:03 |
| pdmars | o/ | 20:03 |
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| dmakogon_ | already | 20:03 |
| arborism | o/ | 20:03 |
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| SlickNik | #topic Update to Action items | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update to Action items (Meeting topic: trove)" | 20:03 | |
| SlickNik | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2013/trove.2013-08-28-20.02.html | 20:03 |
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| dmakogon_ | isviridov: hi | 20:03 |
| isviridov_ | hi, everybody | 20:04 |
| ashestakov | hi | 20:04 |
| SlickNik | hub_cap to find out what happens w/ feature based reviews that land after FF | 20:04 |
| imsplitbit | hai | 20:04 |
| dukhlov_ | hi | 20:04 |
| imsplitbit | hub_cap is currently flying | 20:04 |
| imsplitbit | in an aeroplane | 20:04 |
| SlickNik | Yeah. He told me to cover for this one. | 20:04 |
| dmakogon_ | trove, guys, let's talk about it)) | 20:04 |
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| SlickNik | So after FF the branch remains frozen until we cut our first release candidate (RC1) | 20:05 |
| dmakogon_ | yeah, that is how it works) | 20:05 |
| SlickNik | Which should happen in about a week or so. | 20:05 |
| dmakogon_ | friday - H3 | 20:06 |
| dmakogon_ | next friday RC | 20:06 |
| SlickNik | Once we have RC1 cut, we open the branch again for icehouse submissions. | 20:06 |
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| SlickNik | any questions? | 20:07 |
| SlickNik | okay, moving on... | 20:07 |
| vipul | works for me | 20:07 |
| SlickNik | SlickNik to leave current patch as is and investigate adding trove role to default devstack users in another patch. | 20:07 |
| SlickNik | So that's what most of the other projects are doing. | 20:08 |
| SlickNik | So I will be adding a follow up patch once the devstack patch lands. | 20:08 |
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| SlickNik | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38169/ | 20:08 |
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| SlickNik | datsun180b: you're up. | 20:09 |
| SlickNik | trove-conductor update. | 20:09 |
| datsun180b | Working on submitting my wip for trove-conductor now. | 20:09 |
| datsun180b | It's not complete, but I have a daemon listening to a queue, and a guestagent that speaks to a queue | 20:10 |
| SlickNik | Sweet. Looking forward to the review. | 20:10 |
| dmakogon_ | any updates about Conductor ? | 20:11 |
| datsun180b | Well, it's not complete. I need to hand it off, as I'll be gone all of next week | 20:11 |
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| datsun180b | Hence a WIP review | 20:11 |
| cp16net | hello sorry i'm late | 20:11 |
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| grapex | datsun180b: I'll try to pick that up (then I may pawn if off later though) | 20:11 |
| * grapex laughs sinisterly | 20:11 | |
| datsun180b | Fine by me, it'll be in good hands | 20:11 |
| dmakogon_ | any blocking stuff for Conductor ? | 20:11 |
| SlickNik | heh, gotcha datsun180b | 20:12 |
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| datsun180b | dmakogon_: mostly configuration woes as i'm green to rabbit | 20:12 |
| datsun180b | that's all for me, you'll see the reviews when i submit them | 20:12 |
| grapex | With Rabbit it always seems like nothing works, until you get the last config tweaked perfectly | 20:13 |
| SlickNik | Thanks datsun180b. Sounds good, let's move on… | 20:13 |
| dmakogon_ | datsun180b: ok | 20:13 |
| isviridov_ | datsun180b, any link to code? | 20:13 |
| SlickNik | Okay, next: team needs to discuss and come up with a consistent JSON notation across API | 20:13 |
| dmakogon_ | datsun180b: could you paste any code or specification of Conductor ? | 20:14 |
| kevinconway | datsun180b: code plox? | 20:14 |
| juice | in the review guys | 20:14 |
| SlickNik | dmakogon_ /isviridov: datsun180b's in the process of posting his WIP review. | 20:14 |
| juice | you'll seeit all | 20:14 |
| dmakogon_ | ok | 20:15 |
| SlickNik | So we still need to discuss having a consistent JSON notation. | 20:15 |
| SlickNik | And haven't had a chance to do it so far. | 20:15 |
| grapex | SlickNik: consistent JSON spec for the REST API? | 20:15 |
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| dmakogon_ | about JSON: lets formalize notation and present it OpenStack community | 20:15 |
| dmakogon_ | present to | 20:15 |
| kevinconway | i thought hub_cap already did that | 20:16 |
| vipul | dmakogon_: i think that's been done in the past, but gone nowhere.. no harm in trying again i suppose | 20:16 |
| SlickNik | grapex: yes. right now we have some variable using under_scores and others using camelCase... | 20:16 |
| grapex | SlickNik: hub_cap made a wiki article on the next version of the API | 20:16 |
| vipul | what was the decision? | 20:16 |
| SlickNik | So the idea was we should formalize a consistent spec for Trove. | 20:16 |
| grapex | one feature of the wishlist was to have consistent JSON stuff | 20:16 |
| dmakogon_ | vipul: lets formalize JSON notation for trove and use it like standard | 20:16 |
| SlickNik | At least for the next version of the API. | 20:16 |
| isviridov_ | I would suggest camelCase, as well as w3c uses it http://www.w3schools.com/json/ | 20:17 |
| kevinconway | i'm pretty sure hub_cap was for the underscored notation | 20:17 |
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| juice | it appears as the general rule is to follow python notation more so than any generic standard | 20:17 |
| dmakogon_ | vipul: agree with isviridov | 20:17 |
| juice | this being the case, we should use underscores | 20:17 |
| SlickNik | it seems like other openstack projects are divided and inconsistent regarding this as well. | 20:18 |
| SlickNik | Which sucks. | 20:18 |
| kevinconway | isviridov: w3schools is not w3 | 20:18 |
| vipul | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Trove/NextAPI | 20:18 |
| jrodom | i'd love to see general consensus across openstack programs ideally. | 20:18 |
| isviridov_ | kevinconway, but they really follows w3c | 20:18 |
| juice | does one lend itself to dynamic binding more than the other? | 20:19 |
| vipul | i don't believe so, since it's all dicts | 20:19 |
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| arborism | +1 on under_score. also, I agree w/ Jay's comments on the current JSON schema (which is not mentioned in that aforementioned wiki) | 20:19 |
| juice | that is, if I were to run our api through several code generator or object binding frameworks which one works more consistently? | 20:19 |
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| SlickNik | I don't think we need to arrive at a consensus this very moment. I'd like to read up on it a bit more and revisit this when hub_cap is around as well. | 20:20 |
| imsplitbit | +1 arborism | 20:20 |
| imsplitbit | and +1 jay's comment | 20:20 |
| vipul | what comment? | 20:21 |
| vipul | oh recall a email thread... | 20:21 |
| dmakogon_ | what is the next topic ? | 20:21 |
| dmakogon_ | #topic MongoDB support | 20:22 |
| SlickNik | We're still doing action items, dmakogon_ | 20:22 |
| vipul | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2013-August/000850.html | 20:22 |
| SlickNik | thanks vipul | 20:22 |
| arborism | (thanks for the assist on that link vipul, you beat me ;) ) | 20:22 |
| SlickNik | okay let's move on to the next action item | 20:23 |
| SlickNik | cp16net add the database model to the scheduled_task wiki | 20:23 |
| cp16net | i've yet to do that... | 20:23 |
| cp16net | i have it on my list | 20:24 |
| SlickNik | okay, do you want to re-action it? | 20:24 |
| cp16net | yes plz | 20:24 |
| vipul | #action cp16net add the database model to the scheduled_task wiki | 20:25 |
| cp16net | ty vipul | 20:25 |
| SlickNik | thanks vipul | 20:25 |
| SlickNik | #action team still needs to discuss and come up with a consistent JSON notation across API (hub_cap / grapex / vipul / SlickNik) | 20:25 |
| SlickNik | Okay that's all for action items. | 20:25 |
| SlickNik | Let's move on | 20:25 |
| grapex | SlickNik: Ok, who has a coin to flip? :) | 20:25 |
| cp16net | souds good | 20:25 |
| vipul | grapex: likely going to come to that lol | 20:26 |
| SlickNik | #topic Update on h3/rc1/icehouse | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update on h3/rc1/icehouse (Meeting topic: trove)" | 20:26 | |
| datsun180b | grapex: http://www.random.org/coins/ | 20:26 |
| SlickNik | touched on that earlier. | 20:26 |
| SlickNik | Nothing more to add. | 20:26 |
| SlickNik | #topic MongoDB support https://blueprints.launchpad.net/trove/+spec/mongodb-support (needs approvement) | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MongoDB support https://blueprints.launchpad.net/trove/+spec/mongodb-support (needs approvement) (Meeting topic: trove)" | 20:26 | |
| SlickNik | dmakogon_: that's you I believe. | 20:27 |
| vipul | woah MongoDB eh | 20:27 |
| dmakogon_ | trove should support MongoDB is popular enough | 20:27 |
| SlickNik | or isviridov | 20:27 |
| isviridov_ | MongoDB is pretty common DB in NoSQL world, would like to see it in trove | 20:27 |
| dmakogon_ | and mongo has very interesting data storing schema | 20:28 |
| isviridov_ | need your approve | 20:28 |
| arborism | isn't a mongodb blueprint jumping the gun considering the clustering api isn't finalized, region support isn't finalized, parameter groups aren't finalized, etc? | 20:28 |
| vipul | I guess you could do a single instance mongo | 20:28 |
| vipul | not sure how useful that will be | 20:28 |
| demorris | no more than adding any other datastores | 20:28 |
| isviridov_ | arborism, you are right, it is one more reason to think about cluster-api better | 20:28 |
| SlickNik | dmakogon_: I think we need some more info in the blueprint, about the idea and design. | 20:29 |
| demorris | looking at support for it is a great set of data points to help shape all those features | 20:29 |
| vipul | demorris: good point | 20:29 |
| dmakogon_ | SlickNik: we'll do that | 20:29 |
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| demorris | we run the risk of under delivering on those features if we don't include it in the discussions, so I seem them as able to run in parallel | 20:29 |
| vipul | since Trove is approved to support no-sql, I don't see why this would be an issue | 20:30 |
| vipul | just would be a single instance thing until clusters are fully baked | 20:30 |
| dmakogon_ | vupil: yes, why not ? | 20:30 |
| dmakogon_ | good point | 20:30 |
| cweid | Rather than having * number of blueprints of what other sql or no sql services we want to support why don't we work on making it a trivial task to add in new db engines.. | 20:31 |
| dmakogon_ | for now we could tweak trove for provisioning single instance of anything | 20:31 |
| ashestakov | cweid: +1 | 20:31 |
| vipul | cweid: I think some of those things only get easier when you actually attempt to add another datastore | 20:31 |
| cweid | Correct | 20:32 |
| grapex | cweid: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/07/rule-of-three.html | 20:32 |
| cweid | but right now we have 3 pending. | 20:32 |
| SlickNik | dmakogon_: I'm not sure what you mean by "tweak" trove. Trove already supports multiple managers for the guest agent. | 20:32 |
| dmakogon_ | after cluster api will be finished, we'll try to do specification for mongo cluster | 20:32 |
| arborism | cweid/vipul: agreed, but the existing clustering api mail thread is already discussing 3+ datastores | 20:32 |
| arborism | i was just pointing out that some final consensus is needed there first, before a super-detailed mongodb spec is written | 20:32 |
| grapex | cweid: Well I think for now we do blue prints on new data stores, and as they come in, things in Trove should naturally become easier to reuse and more flexible (unless we screw up) | 20:33 |
| vipul | Sure, it's not just about clustering, i think there is room for improvement in guest agent and taskmanger for example.. | 20:33 |
| dmakogon_ | grapex: +1 | 20:33 |
| isviridov_ | arborism, with analizing other dbs we are getting cleare vision of cluster api also | 20:33 |
| arborism | correct, yes. | 20:34 |
| dmakogon_ | isviridov +1 | 20:34 |
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| isviridov_ | there is demand of HA cluster, not just set of engines | 20:34 |
| SlickNik | vipul: I agree with you. I'd like to take those improvements to trove, but as part of being able to support "n" implementations, not specifically MongoDB, for example... | 20:34 |
| vipul | SlickNik: sure, but we have no other implementation of another engine happening in Public Trove.. (at least i have not seen much code) | 20:35 |
| vipul | I know we're talking about implementing Redis, and we are doing Vertica, etc.. | 20:35 |
| vipul | but there isn't much refactoring, pluggability work going on currently to support those | 20:36 |
| kevinconway | couldn't we just make db engines some kind of extension that we plug in? | 20:36 |
| arborism | since it seems like there's quite a bit of interest in this, i'd ask that people who haven't read that mail thread do so, because it's trying to address all of the topics being brought up, at least from a generic api perspective. I'd love to see comments about guest/taskmanager refactorings as well. | 20:36 |
| cp16net | vipul: yeah i agree and that leads to me to thinkin not much *needs* to change now | 20:36 |
| cweid | vipul: here is Trove sertup to support Redis. https://github.com/cweidenkeller/trove | 20:37 |
| demorris | that work is already in progress, types/version blueprint is a step in that direction | 20:37 |
| grapex | vipul: As people do new db types, I think we should gate them on making sure the code is refactored enough that they don't stick out like a sore thumb or create issues, naturally putting pressure on keeping the code clean and making it more pluggable as the implementation count increases. | 20:37 |
| kevinconway | arborism: link to thread? | 20:37 |
| vipul | cweid: thanks | 20:37 |
| SlickNik | I'm totally good with this, but I'd like to see more details on what changes are needed added to the blueprint. Things like "We need to support X for better multi-engine support in trove", and not necessarily "We need to support Y because MongoDB" | 20:37 |
| vipul | grapex: +1 | 20:37 |
| SlickNik | yup agree with grapex as well. | 20:38 |
| vipul | SlickNik: agreed, let's use the Mongo BP as a place to do this | 20:38 |
| arborism | kevinconway: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2013-August/000719.html | 20:38 |
| demorris | SlickNik: agree, this is step one to that - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Trove/trove-versions-types | 20:39 |
| arborism | specifically the gist I provided, talking about how to generically support cassandra + mongo + mysql + regions | 20:39 |
| vipul | cweid, cp16net: lookign at https://github.com/cweidenkeller/trove/blob/master/trove/guestagent/manager/redis.py -- i see a lot of duplication between that and mysql.py | 20:39 |
| vipul | seems like that would be a perfect opportunity to create some sort of an interface.. | 20:39 |
| demorris | right now sure you can make whatever run in Trove, but you can't actually run multiple DB engines and types on the same install | 20:39 |
| grapex | demorris: Maybe we do need to do some bare minimum work to make running multiple DB engines (aka service_types) at once possible- and just make which ones are enabled configurable. Then we should all agree to be a bit lax with these new db types- | 20:40 |
| arborism | +1 grapex | 20:40 |
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| isviridov_ | grapex, +1 | 20:41 |
| cp16net | i agree we need to be able to (dis)(en)able service types | 20:41 |
| SlickNik | agreed grapex. | 20:41 |
| grapex | and let code for them get checked in without being 100% done. I don't like that, but there will need to be changes to make Trove more flexible while the Mongo and Redis guys add there work, so we'll need to gate a bit less than usual (i.e. features for these types won't have to work 100% before a commit) | 20:41 |
| vipul | sure, grapex. I'd welcome changes that really make it pluggable | 20:42 |
| * grapex wishes he'd spelled "there" "their" | 20:42 | |
| datsun180b | grapex: forty lashes | 20:42 |
| vipul | to be continued? | 20:43 |
| grapex | vipul: So the issue is, will these changes be led by the veterans or the people making new DB types? I think the pressures of what everyone's boss wants them to do will mean the new DB implementers may need to make it pluggable, but the friction is they may not always know the greatest way to do that since they're a bit new to the project. | 20:43 |
| SlickNik | Looking like one to me. | 20:44 |
| SlickNik | So with the bp in question though; I'd like to see a bit more definition in what this entails and how much of the trove-core code needs to change for it. | 20:45 |
| vipul | grapex: sure, it could be the vets.. I doubt we'd be abel to refactor everythign necessary for anothre service type | 20:45 |
| grapex | Plus, we don't really always know what it would take to add Redis or Mongo since we're not adding them ourselves, so I guess my point is we should allow some limited Redis and Mongo code to get in early on. | 20:45 |
| grapex | And lax our standards to jump start the conversation- just for a bit, and just so long as nothing that's working today breaks. | 20:45 |
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| vipul | grapex: i'm cool with that | 20:45 |
| SlickNik | So I'd love for it to drive other changes in trove-core to make it more pluggable. | 20:46 |
| vipul | it's gonna have to be a combination of us going in there and refactoring, and also code review suggestions | 20:46 |
| grapex | vipul: I think so. | 20:46 |
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| vipul | time check :) | 20:47 |
| SlickNik | So what I'm hearing is approve the bp for an initial stab at adding mongo | 20:47 |
| SlickNik | Whoops. | 20:47 |
| dmakogon_ | i thinks we've done with Mongo BP | 20:47 |
| SlickNik | okay move on for now... | 20:48 |
| SlickNik | to be continued. | 20:48 |
| SlickNik | #topic virgo based guest-agent (https://github.com/racker/virgo, https://github.com/racker/virgo-base) | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "virgo based guest-agent (https://github.com/racker/virgo, https://github.com/racker/virgo-base) (Meeting topic: trove)" | 20:48 | |
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| dmakogon_ | who want to tell us about this client > | 20:48 |
| dmakogon_ | ? | 20:48 |
| SlickNik | Who added this to the agenda? | 20:48 |
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| vipul | skip | 20:49 |
| SlickNik | hmm…okay. | 20:49 |
| SlickNik | moving on. | 20:49 |
| isviridov_ | was in open discussion | 20:49 |
| demorris | why not discuss it | 20:49 |
| vipul | who knows about it | 20:49 |
| SlickNik | demorris: who's the right person to discuss it? | 20:50 |
| vipul | i heard it for the first time yesterday | 20:50 |
| dmakogon_ | anyone have something to tell? discuss ? | 20:50 |
| ashestakov | i tried to research virgo today, where is server part for it? | 20:50 |
| vipul | I think it would be just the agent | 20:50 |
| cp16net | its just an agent | 20:50 |
| isviridov_ | it was mentioned as on of possible implementation for guest-agent, any info about it? | 20:50 |
| ashestakov | to where it reporting? | 20:50 |
| grapex | Virgo is the guest agent used by Rackspace monitoring | 20:50 |
| demorris | it is a lightweight C-based agent with extensible Lua scripting for agent logic | 20:51 |
| ashestakov | can it receive rpc calls? | 20:51 |
| grapex | If whoever raised it isn't here to talk about it I think we should move on- its basically an agent framework of sorts written on top of luvit, which is NodeJS for Lua | 20:51 |
| SlickNik | I think this discussion might be best suited for #openstack-trove after the meeting (since it's more of a knowledge sharing one) | 20:51 |
| isviridov_ | let us move on | 20:51 |
| SlickNik | #topic trove refactoring: guestagent main issues (dmakogon) | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "trove refactoring: guestagent main issues (dmakogon) (Meeting topic: trove)" | 20:51 | |
| dmakogon_ | my point | 20:52 |
| dmakogon_ | GA issues | 20:52 |
| dmakogon_ | Weaken trove.guestagent.manager.mysql & .mysql_service dependency on trove.instance.models -- actually only small set of constants and one simple persistent model is required, not the whole bunch of code | 20:52 |
| dmakogon_ | Same with trove.guestagent.backup vs trove.backup.models | 20:52 |
| dmakogon_ | trove.guestagent.strategies should not use trove.common.remote. The latter pulls lots of stuff but only trivial one-line call is actually needed | 20:52 |
| dmakogon_ | Check trove.guestagent.manager.mysql.mysql_service dependency on trove.extensions.mysql.models (may be not so easy/important) | 20:53 |
| vipul | dmakogon_: nice! with conductor, the models dependencies are gone | 20:53 |
| dmakogon_ | vipul: thanks | 20:53 |
| SlickNik | dmakogon_: There's also another bp out to separate the guest agent into it's own repo / package to decouple it further. | 20:53 |
| SlickNik | So this is all goodness. | 20:53 |
| SlickNik | And if you opened a bug and fixed some of these issues, I'm sure no-one here would object :) | 20:54 |
| vipul | please add these to that bp, just to track them | 20:54 |
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| dmakogon_ | SlickNick: we don't wont to extract GA to separate repo | 20:54 |
| dmakogon_ | SlickNik: we want to break dependencies | 20:55 |
| dmakogon_ | this is the main goal | 20:55 |
| grapex | dmakogon_: If it got its own repo it would become skinny quick. | 20:55 |
| vipul | dmakogon_: at some point, for packaging pusposes we should also consider moving it to a spearate repo | 20:55 |
| grapex | I know the two goals can be made seperate | 20:55 |
| grapex | but one would help the other. | 20:55 |
| vipul | grapex: +1 | 20:55 |
| SlickNik | I'm totally fine with tackling the two separately. | 20:55 |
| SlickNik | But they're related. | 20:55 |
| dmakogon_ | vipul: i thinks, not | 20:55 |
| dmakogon_ | we should break deps and keep project together | 20:56 |
| isviridov_ | what about common code for both projects? | 20:56 |
| vipul | oslo? | 20:56 |
| robertmyers | dmakogon_: that is not allowed | 20:56 |
| isviridov_ | constants, so on | 20:56 |
| robertmyers | only one setup.py per git repo | 20:56 |
| cp16net | there is common agent code in oslo | 20:56 |
| grapex | dmakogon_: I would like fewer repos myself, but alas, tis not the way of OpenStack. | 20:56 |
| vipul | ok we need to revist this i think | 20:57 |
| SlickNik | this seems like a tangent. | 20:57 |
| vipul | 3 mins.. | 20:57 |
| kevinconway | we could put each daemon in it's own repo! | 20:57 |
| SlickNik | Let's revisit this and keep going | 20:57 |
| isviridov_ | seems better to keep it in one repo, or api should be defined | 20:58 |
| SlickNik | #topic versions / service_types | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "versions / service_types (Meeting topic: trove)" | 20:58 | |
| ashestakov | its mine | 20:58 |
| ashestakov | lets see this one again https://gist.github.com/andreyshestakov/b1f1b06fd4aef18011ea | 20:58 |
| SlickNik | take it away, ashestakov | 20:58 |
| isviridov_ | also affects cluster api | 20:58 |
| vipul | ashestakov: why separate the service_type_id and verstion_id? | 20:59 |
| vipul | shoudln't they be grouped (on instance create) | 20:59 |
| ashestakov | vipul: we disscussed this on previos meeting | 20:59 |
| vipul | ok missed that then | 21:00 |
| ashestakov | version_id is optional, you should specify it only you have multiple active versions | 21:00 |
| ashestakov | there another issue | 21:00 |
| vipul | tehy could still be grouped, since they are related things | 21:00 |
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| ashestakov | in that spec, once we eliminated service_type as it is now (eg, mysql and percona), we should add same parameter | 21:01 |
| grapex | vipul: I agree, it optimizes the case with no multiple versions but it less organized if you do have them. | 21:01 |
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| vipul | ashestakov: how about talking about it in openstack-trove later | 21:02 |
| ashestakov | vipul: after this meeting? | 21:02 |
| vipul | soem folks might be leaving | 21:02 |
| SlickNik | yup, let's talk about it immediately after this meeting. | 21:03 |
| vipul | ok we can do that too | 21:03 |
| kevinconway | if it's a meeting time you should probably reschedule it for next time as well | 21:03 |
| SlickNik | Or we can pick another time if folks are leaving. | 21:03 |
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| kevinconway | time = item | 21:03 |
| SlickNik | Let's move on for now | 21:03 |
| SlickNik | #topic guest_agent service registry (dict_opt vs single opt) | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "guest_agent service registry (dict_opt vs single opt) (Meeting topic: trove)" | 21:03 | |
| SlickNik | who's got this one? | 21:04 |
| grapex | So I'll comment | 21:04 |
| vipul | please do | 21:04 |
| grapex | Is this about the guest config file having both a dictionary of managers, and a key to which of those managers to use? | 21:04 |
| vipul | yes | 21:04 |
| grapex | I don't get the utility of it, as it appears the dictionary isn't used out of the bin script | 21:05 |
| grapex | Maybe I missed something? | 21:05 |
| vipul | I think the idea is if we want to suppot a single package of guest agent that support >1 service types | 21:05 |
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| vipul | how do we dynamically load the 'manager' | 21:05 |
| vipul | based on the service type of the instance | 21:05 |
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| grapex | I guess my issue is the manager could be as easily loaded by specifying the class name | 21:05 |
| vipul | as a single conf entry? | 21:06 |
| grapex | Yes | 21:06 |
| vipul | yes you could do that.. | 21:06 |
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| vipul | means you have different confs for different service types | 21:06 |
| vipul | i guess there is a bit my dynamicism if you go with dict | 21:06 |
| vipul | because the same conf can be resued | 21:06 |
| SnowDust | +1 vipul on that | 21:06 |
| isviridov_ | +1 vipul | 21:07 |
| grapex | How? To change which manager is loaded, you have to still change the conf | 21:07 |
| dmakogon_ | vipul: i thinks we could do dynamic module deliveries | 21:07 |
| vipul | the conf would contain all possible managers | 21:07 |
| dmakogon_ | vipul: yes | 21:07 |
| vipul | servie_type (hopefully in the future) is something that will be passed into guest_info | 21:07 |
| dmakogon_ | than we do dymamic load | 21:07 |
| grapex | Ah | 21:07 |
| SlickNik | grapex: I think the idea would be to have all managers in the conf, and the pick the manager based on the service_type (in the rpc call?) | 21:07 |
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| ashestakov | vipul: backup/restore strategies still using mysql impl | 21:07 |
| vipul | rpc call would be too late | 21:07 |
| grapex | SlickNik: Ok- I thought that maybe that was the plan. | 21:08 |
| vipul | yea, we wnat to gradually configure the backup / restore strategies as well | 21:08 |
| vipul | this is step #1 to getting the right manager loaded | 21:08 |
| grapex | Ok, I feel it could be YAGNI but I'm ok if we're all on board with making use of the dictionary very soon | 21:08 |
| dmakogon_ | about automated backups | 21:09 |
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| dmakogon_ | Automated backup design: 1. Define limits for backups per tenant. 2. Define storing strategy. 3. Define timing strategy. 4. Define cluster backup strategy than 1-3 for cluster | 21:09 |
| SlickNik | Yeah, this is the same thing with backup / restore. | 21:09 |
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| dmakogon_ | what do you say ? | 21:10 |
| SlickNik | dmakogon_: You might want to talk to cp16net about that as feedback for him. | 21:10 |
| SlickNik | I'm fine with the dict_opt | 21:10 |
| dmakogon_ | SlickNic: ok | 21:10 |
| SlickNik | anything else to add, vipul? | 21:10 |
| vipul | no i'm good... | 21:10 |
| dmakogon_ | about registry, cool with dict | 21:10 |
| SlickNik | Okay, #topic open discussion | 21:11 |
| kevinconway | datsun180b: Conductor code? | 21:11 |
| SlickNik | #topic Open Discussion | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: trove)" | 21:11 | |
| juice | Just one closing note - I did a bit of JSON API comparison - of 13 sites: 8 use _ (underscore); 3 use camelCase; 1 uses - (dash); and the last one was all lowercase | 21:11 |
| vipul | juice: nice! | 21:11 |
| datsun180b | kevinconway: pay attention, both reviews are up | 21:11 |
| vipul | we shoudl look at things like jackson too, see if they expect a certain type | 21:12 |
| vipul | my guess is probably not | 21:12 |
| SlickNik | Good info juice. I'm leaning towards _ too. (mostly because it's what we already use in the majority of situations) | 21:12 |
| juice | jackson you can specify what ever field name you like | 21:12 |
| juice | @XMLElement("my_dogs_name") or something like that | 21:12 |
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| SlickNik | Okay, I think we're good with the meeting. Let's take further discussion to #openstack-trove | 21:12 |
| SlickNik | Thanks all, and sorry for the OT. | 21:13 |
| SlickNik | #endmeeting | 21:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 21:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Sep 4 21:13:09 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2013/trove.2013-09-04-20.02.html | 21:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2013/trove.2013-09-04-20.02.txt | 21:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2013/trove.2013-09-04-20.02.log.html | 21:13 |
| grapex | No problem. Thanks SlickNik! | 21:13 |
| vipul | coo | 21:13 |
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