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| dkoryavov | Hello Muranoers! | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| tnurlygayanov_ | Hi ) | 14:59 |
| sergmelikyan | Hi! | 14:59 |
| akuznetsova | Hello | 15:00 |
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| tsufiev | hi! | 15:01 |
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| dkoryavov | Let's start our meeting. | 15:01 |
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| dkoryavov | #startmeeting Murano | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Sep 9 15:01:59 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dkoryavov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Murano)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'murano' | 15:02 |
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| dkoryavov | Here are our agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Murano_meeting | 15:02 |
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| dkoryavov | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MuranoAgenda * | 15:02 |
| katyafervent | Hi everyone! | 15:02 |
| dkoryavov | Summary from the previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-09-02-15.02.html | 15:03 |
| dteselkin | Hi! | 15:03 |
| IgorYozhikov | hi | 15:03 |
| dkoryavov | Unfortunately, as far as I can see, we have no Georgy here, so let's speak about Action Items from the previous meeting. | 15:03 |
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| dkoryavov | We have one action item > need to update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/linux-agent | 15:04 |
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| dkoryavov | As far as I can see, blueprint is updated. | 15:05 |
| dkoryavov | But I have several questions: > Linux agent should be agnostic to the Linux distribution, but it is ok if only some specific Linux is supported initially. | 15:06 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | I can see some updates of this blueprint, but we also should add info about commands/scripts and etc. | 15:06 |
| dkoryavov | It is really difficult to support, so I suggest to support Ubuntu LTS (12.04, 14.04) and CentOS/RHEL 6.4, 7.0. | 15:07 |
| dkoryavov | (as minimum, on a first time) | 15:07 |
| dkoryavov | What do you think, folks? | 15:08 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | dkoryavov, realy, for the first version we can support only Ubuntu or other DEB-based linux | 15:08 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | because we will should support two versions of scripts for Ubuntu and CentOS | 15:09 |
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| IgorYozhikov | about scripts and commands? do you mean that Linux agent must work through the sudo wrapper with the limited set of commands? | 15:09 |
| dkoryavov | As far as I can recall sudo is not configured in CentOS by default. | 15:10 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | IgorYozhikov, yes, | 15:10 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | dkoryavov, we have root user in CentOS by default and can use it for the first version of implemenation. | 15:11 |
| dkoryavov | So, to work with the help of sudo we should create a custom CentOS images. :) It is not very good idea I think. | 15:11 |
| dteselkin | tnurlygayanov_: why "two versions of scripts" ? I though that Python code is portable ... | 15:11 |
| joel_c | Can we add support for SuSE (SLES) too? | 15:11 |
| IgorYozhikov | why do we need custom images/installation with sudo? | 15:12 |
| dkoryavov | dteselkin: As far as I can recall CentOS has Python 2.6 while Ubuntu has Python 2.7. | 15:12 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | yes, Python code is portable, but bash scripts with packages-installation is not portable without specific scripts-actions. | 15:12 |
| dkoryavov | joel_c: Well, yes. Which version? 12.2? | 15:12 |
| dteselkin | Do we have functionality which requires 2.7 only & | 15:12 |
| dteselkin | * ? | 15:12 |
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| katyafervent | In dashboard no AFAIK | 15:13 |
| dkoryavov | dteselkin I don't know. sergmelikyan ? | 15:13 |
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| joel_c | SLES10, SLES11 | 15:14 |
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| IgorYozhikov | shell scripts are not to complex as python, so I think that agent may has ability to execute them | 15:14 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | ok, lokks like we can support SLES10 and SLES11 for the first version of linux agent. | 15:15 |
| gokrokve | What about puppet and chef support? | 15:15 |
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| gokrokve | Why you decided to use SUSE? | 15:15 |
| gokrokve | Why not RedHat? | 15:15 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | SUSE is free. | 15:16 |
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| sergmelikyan | AFAIK | 15:17 |
| IgorYozhikov | as I remember, SUSE has newer version of packages | 15:17 |
| gokrokve | Ok. So Lets support Ubuntu, SUSE and CentOS | 15:18 |
| dkoryavov | Does anybody know which version of Python in SLES10 and SLES11? | 15:18 |
| gokrokve | Ubuntu is widely used in OpenStack | 15:18 |
| sergmelikyan | AFAIK there are no code special for 2.7 | 15:18 |
| dkoryavov | If 2.6 or 2.7 and there are no problems with sudo, I think it will be easy to support SLES10 and 11. | 15:19 |
| dteselkin | Folks, my question about python 2.7 meant "do we plan any functionality in AGENT which requires python 2.7". As far as I know, we haven't implemented yet a line of code for Python Murano Agent :) | 15:20 |
| gokrokve | We need to check the difference between Linux distribution. We need to make sure that scripts will work perfectly on any Linux version. | 15:20 |
| gokrokve | Yes. Agent should be Python based. 2.7 version is not mandatory but it is usually available on any distribution. | 15:21 |
| dkoryavov | gokrokve CentOS 6.4 has Python 2.6 in repositories…. | 15:22 |
| gokrokve | Ok. What we can do with that? Support 2.6? | 15:23 |
| dkoryavov | gokrokve I think yes. | 15:24 |
| IgorYozhikov | all murano components work with 2.6, as I know | 15:24 |
| sergmelikyan | Currently all openstack software is tested against 2.6 | 15:24 |
| gokrokve | By the way, I want also discuss our approach on state management in workflows. Right now it is hard to understand what the state is and how it is related to the workflow rules. | 15:24 |
| sergmelikyan | IgorYozhikov, YEP | 15:24 |
| dkoryavov | I suggest to support any distro who satisfies the following conditions: | 15:24 |
| dkoryavov | * Python 2.6 and 2.7 on the board; | 15:24 |
| dkoryavov | * 'sudo' installed and configured by default. | 15:24 |
| gokrokve | Can we have a separate design session on that? | 15:25 |
| dkoryavov | IgorYozhikov do we really need 'sudo'? | 15:25 |
| dteselkin | I've heard that it's possible to bundle different verions of python with your package. In this case, your python is independent from the system. But it requires some investigation. | 15:25 |
| sergmelikyan | Currently conductor have in memory state during workflow execution\ | 15:25 |
| gokrokve | dkoryavov I agree. Look quite reasonable. | 15:25 |
| IgorYozhikov | if Agent would use unprivileged user - yes | 15:25 |
| sergmelikyan | If any fail is occured during exeecution this task will be restarted from begining and all aready provisioned resources going to be droped | 15:26 |
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| tsufiev | dteselkin, you are speaking about virtualenv | 15:26 |
| gokrokve | From the security viewpoint it should be non root user with some specific command allowed via sudo. | 15:26 |
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| IgorYozhikov | to prevent security issues | 15:26 |
| gokrokve | Right. | 15:27 |
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| dkoryavov | OK. #info Requirements for GNU/Linux agent: Python 2.6 or Python 2.7. An utility 'sudo' installed and configured by default. | 15:28 |
| sergmelikyan | gokrokve, any other question about state? | 15:29 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | #info: blueprint for linux agent was updated: added new comments. | 15:29 |
| gokrokve | sergmelikyan: Just need a meeting date and time. | 15:30 |
| sergmelikyan | today after this meeting? | 15:30 |
| dkoryavov | #info From the security viewpoint it should be non root user with some specific command allowed via sudo. | 15:30 |
| gokrokve | during this week. | 15:31 |
| sergmelikyan | ok | 15:31 |
| gokrokve | What is about second feature? | 15:31 |
| gokrokve | And by the way we are running out of time. | 15:32 |
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| dkoryavov | gokrokve no, we have 1 hour for meeting. :) | 15:32 |
| dkoryavov | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/custom-workflows | 15:32 |
| gokrokve | Good. | 15:33 |
| gokrokve | Lets continue then. | 15:33 |
| dkoryavov | This is our second planned feature for v0.3. Do you have any questions about it? | 15:33 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | how we can save and provide new workflows for users? | 15:34 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | how users can share workflows? | 15:34 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | *with this new feature, of course. | 15:34 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | should we use git repository for the first version or we will use workflows-server? | 15:35 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | as user I want to have ability to download new workflows and WebUI forms from WebUI ) | 15:36 |
| dmyznikov | agree | 15:37 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | do we plan to support it? | 15:37 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | or we plan make just private-git repository and share workflows for administrators of OpenStack clusters? | 15:38 |
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| dkoryavov | tnurlygayanov_ I think we can use a git repository on a first time. To create custom workflow you need to be a high skilled user (like an admin), so it is not a big problem to use git for these users, I think. | 15:39 |
| sergmelikyan | Implementation is based on time-frames for release, we still not yet estimated this featureds | 15:39 |
| dkoryavov | Am I right? :) | 15:40 |
| joel_c | dkoryavov: I agree that to get it off the ground using Git is ok however we want to provide custom workflows to bussiness units who will not be OpenStack Admins | 15:41 |
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| IgorYozhikov | If this service would reside inside the cloud, I believe that it could use keystone as the security backend, but this is only my suggestion | 15:41 |
| gokrokve | What is about metadata service to keep all workflows in the one place and use keystone for ACL? | 15:43 |
| dkoryavov | joel_c gokrokve Hmm. Can you create a document how you see this implementation? We can discuss it on a next meeting. | 15:43 |
| dkoryavov | Please* | 15:43 |
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| joel_c | dkoryavov: Ok. | 15:44 |
| gokrokve | joel_c: You can submit your own blue print on the launchpad.net. | 15:46 |
| joel_c | gokrokve: yes. | 15:46 |
| gokrokve | Or you can try to add whiteboard comments to the existing one. | 15:46 |
| dkoryavov | gokrokve Alex and Stan are not here today, thus we had no discussion about this. | 15:47 |
| gokrokve | As I see we will need UI part for this feature too. | 15:47 |
| dkoryavov | > Or you can try to add whiteboard comments to the existing one. | 15:47 |
| dkoryavov | If would be very nice. | 15:47 |
| gokrokve | It means that we need to understand what will be the process of management for workflows. | 15:47 |
| tsufiev | gokrokve, yes, but the workflows should come first | 15:48 |
| gokrokve | Not necessarily. From the service viewpoint this is a standard CRUD REST API | 15:48 |
| tsufiev | i need some workflows api to base Ui on it | 15:48 |
| IgorYozhikov | can we combine metadata and custom workflows "keeper" service in one? | 15:49 |
| gokrokve | Ok. I think Sergey can create some API for you. | 15:49 |
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| gokrokve | It is exactly the plan. | 15:49 |
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| tsufiev | gokrokve, yes, that would be nice | 15:50 |
| gokrokve | We need also to think how we will upload multi-component workflow. It consists of workflow itself, scripts, templates, UI definition. | 15:51 |
| IgorYozhikov | may be like gz comntainer? | 15:51 |
| gokrokve | It looks like that folder based approach fits here. | 15:51 |
| IgorYozhikov | may be like gz container? | 15:51 |
| gokrokve | Yes. Archived folder. | 15:51 |
| dkoryavov | OK, folks, we have no time. Let's finish our meeting. I suggest to discuss custom workflows on the next meeting when we'll have some estimates for basic implementation of it. | 15:52 |
| dkoryavov | Btw, I suggest to discuss custom workflows directly in Launchpad. | 15:54 |
| dkoryavov | Here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/custom-workflows | 15:54 |
| gokrokve | dkoryavov: Ok. Sounds good. | 15:54 |
| dkoryavov | The next meeting will be at Sep 16. | 15:56 |
| dkoryavov | #endmeeting murano | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 15:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Sep 9 15:56:22 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-09-09-15.01.html | 15:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-09-09-15.01.txt | 15:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-09-09-15.01.log.html | 15:56 |
| dkoryavov | Bye! | 15:56 |
| joel_c | bye | 15:56 |
| dteselkin | Bye | 15:56 |
| IgorYozhikov | c u | 15:56 |
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| gokrokve | bye | 15:58 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | Bye ) | 15:58 |
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| kgriffs | who is here for the Marconi meeting? | 16:03 |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 16:03 |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 16:03 |
| malini | o/ | 16:03 |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 16:03 |
| zyuan | o/ | 16:03 |
| megan_w | o/ | 16:03 |
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| kgriffs | ok, one minute | 16:04 |
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| flaper87 | ykaplan: :D | 16:05 |
| zyuan | ... | 16:05 |
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| kgriffs | #startmeeting marconi | 16:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Sep 9 16:06:00 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kgriffs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:06 |
| * ykaplan is here | 16:06 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'marconi' | 16:06 |
| kgriffs | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Marconi#Agenda | 16:06 |
| kgriffs | #topic review actions from last time | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review actions from last time (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:06 | |
| kgriffs | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-08-26-16.07.html | 16:06 |
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| kgriffs | 1b | 16:06 |
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| kgriffs | flaper87: ^^ | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yo! | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | not much happened w.r.t creating new blueprints but I did organize some of them | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | and created dependencies | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | I'm started working on the client this week | 16:07 |
| kgriffs | ok, at least we got some forward progress there | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | yeah | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | well, actually | 16:08 |
| kgriffs | are there still things on the therpad that need to be turned into specs? | 16:08 |
| flaper87 | thinking about that again, we are not ussing Alessios code anymore | 16:08 |
| flaper87 | so, I think we can remove that action | 16:08 |
| kgriffs | w00t | 16:08 |
| flaper87 | because the required blueprints for the next steps were already eregistered | 16:08 |
| kgriffs | ok. | 16:08 |
| kgriffs | gtk | 16:08 |
| kgriffs | malini: 1c | 16:08 |
| flaper87 | as for now, we're basing the client's development on what Alej wrote on the wiki page | 16:09 |
| flaper87 | plus the blueprints | 16:09 |
| * flaper87 STFU | 16:09 | |
| kgriffs | flaper87: cool | 16:09 |
| zyuan | great | 16:09 |
| malini | 1c is almost there..I am reviewing the last two of flaper87's patches | 16:09 |
| kgriffs | ok, I will take a look as well today | 16:09 |
| kgriffs | I will skip 1d since that is bundled up in the same slew of patches | 16:10 |
| kgriffs | 1e | 16:10 |
| kgriffs | I went through and attempted to update some bps, but some I wanted to get feedback on later during the mtg before I do much with them | 16:11 |
| kgriffs | megan_w: 1g | 16:11 |
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| megan_w | done! | 16:12 |
| kgriffs | w00t | 16:12 |
| megan_w | incubation applicaiton process complete | 16:12 |
| malini | <cymbals/> | 16:12 |
| megan_w | bam | 16:12 |
| kgriffs | ok. | 16:12 |
| kgriffs | nice work everybody | 16:12 |
| megan_w | great job, guys | 16:12 |
| kgriffs | megan_w: can you help me keep an eye on the incubation milestones? We need to be sure that we are ready to rock 6 weeks before the Icehouse release if we want to apply for graduation | 16:13 |
| kgriffs | which also means we need to start tying up loose ends a few weeks before that | 16:13 |
| megan_w | yes. i was going to propose that we talk about that | 16:13 |
| kgriffs | megan_w: go for it | 16:14 |
| * kgriffs rips up the floor and gives it to megan_w | 16:14 | |
| megan_w | haha, sorry | 16:14 |
| megan_w | let's get a spot on the wiki to keep track of things the TC wanted us to address | 16:14 |
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| megan_w | and perhaps we can review the open ones each week here. that'll make sure everyone keeps their eye on the prize | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | +1 | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: did you already make a wiki page? | 16:15 |
| megan_w | maybe we just have an incubation section. and link to the application wiki, but focus on the ongoing work | 16:16 |
| kgriffs | hmmm, we seem to have momentarily lost Mr. Percoco | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | mmh | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | back | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:16 |
| kgriffs | ah, there you are! | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: :D | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | for the incubation taskes ? | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | tasks ? | 16:16 |
| kgriffs | right | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | no, there are some tasks listed in the incubation page itself | 16:17 |
| flaper87 | plus, I creaed bluprints for them | 16:17 |
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| kgriffs | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/Incubation#Incubation_Period_Notes | 16:17 |
| flaper87 | and tagged as essential | 16:17 |
| flaper87 | meaning, those or nothing :P | 16:17 |
| kgriffs | ok. megan_w: would you like to create a tracking page that links to those bps? | 16:17 |
| megan_w | ja | 16:17 |
| malini | I am just reading thru the TC meeting logs, did they want Tempest tests before graduation ? | 16:18 |
| kgriffs | #action megan_w to create a graduation tracking page | 16:18 |
| flaper87 | malini: yeah | 16:19 |
| kgriffs | seems like they wanted all new programs to be fully integrated into the usual CI stack before graduation | 16:19 |
| kgriffs | moving on | 16:19 |
| kgriffs | 1j | 16:19 |
| flaper87 | IMHO, it shouldn't be that difficult to complete those tasks | 16:19 |
| flaper87 | it won't be* | 16:19 |
| kgriffs | kk | 16:19 |
| * kgriffs crosses fingers | 16:19 | |
| zyuan | ;) | 16:20 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: 1j was done | 16:20 |
| kgriffs | so, "openstack" is now eavesdropping on #openstack-marconi, nicht? | 16:20 |
| flaper87 | yup | 16:20 |
| kgriffs | w00t | 16:20 |
| kgriffs | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/ | 16:20 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:21 |
| kgriffs | 1k. | 16:21 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: 1k | 16:21 |
| kgriffs | where are we wrt the client? | 16:21 |
| flaper87 | done, I mean, I started working on the client. I rebased cppcabrera's patch, migrated client's tox file and started working on the auth support for the client | 16:21 |
| kgriffs | ok | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | Alex_Gaynor giving us any love lately? | 16:22 |
| flaper87 | I was going to start working on the API but I would like to discuss a couple of things with Alej before working on that | 16:22 |
| flaper87 | He sent a patch to pypy-test marconiclient :D | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | ah, yes | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | ok, let's see if we can't identify some more volunteers to help out | 16:23 |
| flaper87 | hopefully, I'll have more news w.r.t the client, next week | 16:23 |
| kgriffs | cool beans | 16:23 |
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| kgriffs | ok | 16:24 |
| kgriffs | next... | 16:24 |
| kgriffs | 4d | 16:24 |
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| kgriffs | So, I submitted a patch there | 16:24 |
| kgriffs | Got one more comment from flaper87 to "deal with" | 16:25 |
| * kgriffs makes a quick phone call | 16:25 | |
| kgriffs | I will work on that today | 16:25 |
| kgriffs | also, I am discussing a way to make marker generating faster since find_one seems to be a bottleneck as well | 16:26 |
| kgriffs | and two more perf patches: | 16:26 |
| kgriffs | (to try) | 16:26 |
| kgriffs | 1. use UNX timestamps instead of datetime objects in message records | 16:26 |
| zyuan | ?? i'm writing 1) | 16:27 |
| kgriffs | excellent | 16:27 |
| kgriffs | I was hoping to get some help. :D | 16:27 |
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| kgriffs | 2. use one messages collection per project | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | 3. eat mor chikin | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | anyway, I digress | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | let's keep going | 16:28 |
| zyuan | 2) you sure... | 16:28 |
| zyuan | ? | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | zyuan: not sure, needs testing | 16:28 |
| zyuan | i think oz_akan_ 's multi db patch is a good approach | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | yes, we need that as well | 16:28 |
| zyuan | it use 2 collections | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | two collections or two DBs? | 16:29 |
| zyuan | two collections, iirc | 16:29 |
| zyuan | because 1 server can only has 1 db | 16:29 |
| kgriffs | should be two DBs to reduce lock % | 16:29 |
| zyuan | it's like "marconi-odd" and "marconi-even" | 16:29 |
| kgriffs | one server can have many DBs, for the record | 16:29 |
| flaper87 | guys :D | 16:30 |
| zyuan | but his test shows this appraoch can improve performance | 16:30 |
| kgriffs | yeah, | 16:30 |
| kgriffs | we can break this out after | 16:30 |
| zyuan | no lock between collections | 16:30 |
| * kgriffs rings bell | 16:30 | |
| kgriffs | #topic •SQL Backend | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "•SQL Backend (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:31 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/sql-storage-driver | 16:31 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 16:31 |
| zyuan | 1 port, 1 db. but the total throughput is somewhat limited | 16:31 |
| zyuan | sqlalchemy core +1 | 16:31 |
| *** SergeyLukjanov is now known as SergeyLukjanov_ | 16:32 | |
| flaper87 | so, after some reading, the performance penalty of using sqlalchemy shouldn't be that high | 16:32 |
| oz_akan_ | I think a driver shall be specific to a storage backend | 16:32 |
| zyuan | core is basically a query constructor | 16:32 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: do we have to use the ORM? | 16:32 |
| *** SergeyLukjanov_ is now known as SergeyLukjanov | 16:32 | |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: no | 16:32 |
| zyuan | no | 16:32 |
| flaper87 | but, I also share oz_akan_ thought. | 16:32 |
| * kgriffs not a fan of ORMs | 16:32 | |
| zyuan | no orm, orm die. | 16:32 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: pls. elaborate | 16:33 |
| flaper87 | what I'm not yet is whether sqlalchemy.core allows you to "customize" things based on the backend it is talking to | 16:33 |
| zyuan | flaper87: it allows you to customize enough things | 16:33 |
| zyuan | datatype, length | 16:33 |
| oz_akan_ | some questions: how complicated is it going to get with sqlalchemy? Does it have restrictions? Are we going to override it in some cases to get most out of MySQL or etc? How is the performance? | 16:33 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: what I mean is, I'd rather have 1 backend per RDBMs but, I'm seeing more benefits from using sqlalchemy w/o the orm than having 1 backend per database | 16:34 |
| zyuan | very simple | 16:34 |
| flaper87 | then, if someone wants to write 1 backend specific for psql and do some magic in there, then be my guest | 16:34 |
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| flaper87 | as for now, I think we should focus on cover RDBMs gap w/ performance penalties | 16:35 |
| flaper87 | I think sqlalchemy.core allows us to do that | 16:35 |
| kgriffs | ok | 16:35 |
| flaper87 | now, other advantages: | 16:35 |
| flaper87 | 1) Migrations | 16:35 |
| zyuan | sqlalchemy.core even allows you to pick mysql storage backends | 16:35 |
| zyuan | like innodb | 16:35 |
| flaper87 | 2) Models tests (not sure we need this but, you know) | 16:35 |
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| flaper87 | zyuan: +1 | 16:35 |
| zyuan | so it's very, low level | 16:35 |
| zyuan | don't worry | 16:35 |
| flaper87 | zyuan: I'm not that worried about .core not allowing us to do something, I'm more worried about what the implementation will look like | 16:36 |
| flaper87 | I mean, a bunch of if backend == mysql ? | 16:36 |
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| flaper87 | but lets not discuss that now, I think we should focus on whether +1 sqlalchemy or not | 16:36 |
| zyuan | flaper87: .core keeps query the same | 16:37 |
| kgriffs | would it replace the SQLite driver | 16:37 |
| kgriffs | ? | 16:37 |
| oz_akan_ | question: what is out motivation to support mysql ? | 16:37 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: yup, we can drop that | 16:37 |
| zyuan | because we use chained expression to create queries | 16:37 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: (memory backend) | 16:37 |
| zyuan | cusomization happens before that | 16:37 |
| kgriffs | I like having it because pip install marconi; marconi-server is really useful for devs, library implementors | 16:37 |
| zyuan | indeed we can do that; an engine of sqlite :memory: will do the job | 16:37 |
| zyuan | but i want to keep the existing sqlite driver for reasoning | 16:38 |
| flaper87 | oz_akan_: 1) MySQL was chosen instead of psql because it's more comon throughout OS community | 16:38 |
| zyuan | i sometimes forgot what i did in the driver... | 16:38 |
| flaper87 | not just projects, also deployments | 16:38 |
| kgriffs | zyuan: reasoning == prototyping? | 16:38 |
| flaper87 | zyuan: tell me about it :P | 16:38 |
| * flaper87 doesn't remember what he had for lunch | 16:38 | |
| zyuan | kgriffs: for reference. because i know i implemented it very precicely | 16:38 |
| flaper87 | ykaplan: you around? | 16:38 |
| *** ruhe has quit IRC | 16:39 | |
| flaper87 | so, ykaplan raised her hand to work on the sql backend | 16:39 |
| ykaplan | flaper87 I'm "listening" | 16:39 |
| kgriffs | oz_akan_: also since some people want a non-AGPL backend | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | she'll implement it along the lines of sqlite's but changing what needs to be changed | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | and I know this because I can read minds | 16:39 |
| zyuan | ... | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | OK ? | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:39 |
| kgriffs | zyuan: we can keep it around for a while until it is no longer needed for reference | 16:40 |
| flaper87 | no jokes, I do read minds | 16:40 |
| flaper87 | ok, nevermind | 16:40 |
| ykaplan | flaper87 read my mind | 16:40 |
| zyuan | if i do, i'll implement is based on sqlite as well, but with .core | 16:40 |
| * kgriffs puts on his tinfoil hat | 16:40 | |
| zyuan | kgriffs: hehe | 16:40 |
| flaper87 | lol | 16:40 |
| oz_akan_ | shouldn't we focus on redis instead of mysql? | 16:40 |
| flaper87 | oz_akan_: cppcabrera is working on that | 16:40 |
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| zyuan | oz_akan_: we can't focus on redis | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | but IMHO, mysql's has higher priority | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | redis will come with some caveats | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | plus, ^ | 16:41 |
| zyuan | because redis' model does not quite fit marconi | 16:41 |
| zyuan | but we can do it anyway | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | ^ | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:41 |
| * flaper87 likes that symbol | 16:41 | |
| kgriffs | Redis is best IMHO for lots of tiny messages with short TTLs | 16:41 |
| oz_akan_ | so mysql is just because of non-agpl license | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | oz_akan_: precisely | 16:41 |
| zyuan | yea. while your primry goal is public service | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | imo | 16:42 |
| zyuan | for now | 16:42 |
| flaper87 | oz_akan_: I wouldn't say it's just because of that | 16:42 |
| oz_akan_ | flaper87: what are other reasons? | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | i guess it's also that some people just are more comfy with MySQL | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | ? | 16:42 |
| oz_akan_ | like me ") | 16:42 |
| oz_akan_ | :) | 16:42 |
| flaper87 | there are some scenarios where mongodb doesn't fit (know-how? storical reasons? what not?) but they already have some RDBMS (psql? mysql?) | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: exactly | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:43 |
| kgriffs | makes sense | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | and there are mongodb hatters out there | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | haters* | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | anyway... | 16:43 |
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| kgriffs | #startvote use SQLAlchemy for SQL storage driver? Yes, No | 16:43 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: use SQLAlchemy for SQL storage driver? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 16:43 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | lets make it official | 16:43 |
| kgriffs | #vote Yes | 16:44 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: dude, i am the one that can read minds | 16:44 |
| flaper87 | damn it | 16:44 |
| kgriffs | hehe | 16:44 |
| flaper87 | #vote Yes | 16:44 |
| oz_akan_ | what is not yes and not no? | 16:44 |
| * kgriffs lives 5 seconds in the future | 16:44 | |
| zyuan | #vote Yes | 16:44 |
| flaper87 | oz_akan_: abstai, which kgriffs abstained to add | 16:44 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:44 |
| kgriffs | oz_akan: abstain | 16:44 |
| kgriffs | :p | 16:44 |
| oz_akan_ | #vote abstain | 16:44 |
| openstack | oz_akan_: abstain is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No. | 16:44 |
| oz_akan_ | hehe | 16:44 |
| * kgriffs blushes | 16:44 | |
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| oz_akan_ | #vote no | 16:45 |
| zyuan | oz_akan_: concern? | 16:45 |
| flaper87 | if 2 more vote no, we'll get to a dead-vote | 16:45 |
| oz_akan_ | I am not convinced that it is easy to implement, won't increase the number of bugs, will be easier to maintain, will be as fast... | 16:46 |
| flaper87 | does meetbot have a dice option ? | 16:46 |
| zyuan | easy? | 16:46 |
| zyuan | SQLAlchemy.core is very easy | 16:46 |
| oz_akan_ | eventually it is another layer | 16:46 |
| zyuan | easier than sql itself | 16:46 |
| zyuan | oz_akan_: it's not. it's just a chain of sql statements in python function calls | 16:46 |
| kgriffs | If it will never replace SQLite, then I might vote no. I don't want to maintain two different SQL drivers | 16:47 |
| oz_akan_ | like mognodb trick we did for claims, if there is another layer in the middle, it might not be easy to do these tricks | 16:47 |
| zyuan | kgriffs: it can | 16:47 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: it will replace it | 16:47 |
| flaper87 | I'd have voted no otherwise | 16:47 |
| kgriffs | ok | 16:47 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:47 |
| zyuan | but i'm not sure whether it will, because i can't predict the future | 16:47 |
| oz_akan_ | guys if you say it is as fast, and easy, I can change my vote | 16:47 |
| flaper87 | zyuan: looool | 16:47 |
| kgriffs | i like the idea of only maintaining one SQL driver | 16:47 |
| zyuan | but for reference, it can | 16:47 |
| oz_akan_ | kgriffs: +1 | 16:47 |
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| flaper87 | IMHO, if other folks want specific drivers then they can implement it as a third-party backend | 16:48 |
| flaper87 | and it won't get into the codebase | 16:48 |
| kgriffs | closing the vote in 30 seconds | 16:48 |
| flaper87 | it can live elsewhere | 16:48 |
| flaper87 | endvote ? | 16:49 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: i agree. if we have to maintain SQLite and MySQL separately, i don't think SQLAlchemy buys us anything | 16:49 |
| kgriffs | but if we merge them, then it is helpful | 16:49 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yup | 16:50 |
| zyuan | they can be merged | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | #endvote | 16:50 |
| openstack | Voted on "use SQLAlchemy for SQL storage driver?" Results are | 16:50 |
| openstack | Yes (3): zyuan, flaper87, kgriffs | 16:50 |
| openstack | No (1): oz_akan_ | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | ok, anything else on the topic? | 16:50 |
| flaper87 | not from me | 16:50 |
| zyuan | SQLAlchemy can have engine specifc options | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: who is assigned? | 16:50 |
| flaper87 | ykaplan: ? | 16:50 |
| flaper87 | ykaplan: she is! | 16:50 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | kk | 16:50 |
| ykaplan | not from me | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | #topic Commit tsung configs in Marconi's tree | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Commit tsung configs in Marconi's tree (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:51 | |
| kgriffs | malini: ^^^ | 16:51 |
| oz_akan_ | ykaplan: has a turkish last name which means tiger | 16:51 |
| malini | we have the xmls in rackerlabs now | 16:51 |
| flaper87 | so, I added that to the agenda because I thought it would be nice to have them there | 16:51 |
| flaper87 | so that other folks could use them as well | 16:51 |
| zyuan | ykaplan: ?? | 16:51 |
| flaper87 | we can have a contrib dir with those configs | 16:51 |
| flaper87 | but I don't know much about tsung | 16:51 |
| ykaplan | oz_akan_: LOL | 16:51 |
| flaper87 | so, malini it's up to you | 16:52 |
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| malini | I wud love to have them in marconi repo | 16:52 |
| zyuan | who is assigned? | 16:52 |
| flaper87 | zyuan: ykaplan is | 16:52 |
| zyuan | ok | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: is there a bp for that? | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | (tsung) | 16:52 |
| malini | The current rackerlabs repo is a bit obsolete & I need to update them to reflect the tests we are running now. | 16:52 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: no, it just corssed my mind after Allan commented on my last blog post | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | kk | 16:53 |
| flaper87 | #link http://blog.flaper87.com/post/522b9e560f06d32542ede77f/ | 16:53 |
| flaper87 | (in case you guys want to read it) | 16:53 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:53 |
| malini | I can clean the tests, improve the readme & submit a new patch | 16:53 |
| kgriffs | #action flaper87 to register a blueprint for tsung configs | 16:53 |
| flaper87 | malini: cool | 16:53 |
| kgriffs | (and a readme) | 16:53 |
| flaper87 | malini: one thing, make sure they are not env dependant | 16:53 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: go ahead and assign whatever priority you feel is appropriate | 16:53 |
| kgriffs | and schedule for icehouse-1 I guess? | 16:53 |
| flaper87 | I mean, that the tests can be run without having to install M$ office | 16:54 |
| kgriffs | (seems like we have more than enough to do for H3) | 16:54 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: oh yes, H-3 ends next month btw, and we're already in feature-freeze | 16:54 |
| malini | flaper87: env depenedent ? As is , you can point them to any marconi server | 16:54 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: let's discuss in a breakout after this | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | (H3) | 16:55 |
| malini | flaper87: loved your blog post :) | 16:55 |
| flaper87 | malini: :) | 16:55 |
| malini | I'll register a bp for adding tsung xmls & assign me | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | oh, ok | 16:56 |
| malini | sorry, missed the earlier action .. | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | #action malini to register tsung XML blueprint | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | I'll let you two play rock-paper-scissors | 16:57 |
| malini | :D | 16:57 |
| flaper87 | malini: how dare you! | 16:57 |
| flaper87 | you just stole my action | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | almost out of time | 16:57 |
| flaper87 | :P | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | two bugs I want to bring up real quick | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1214973 | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1214973 | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | We currently propagate those out to the WSGI driver iirc | 16:57 |
| flaper87 | IIRC, the original implementation retried on failures (as per 1214973) | 16:58 |
| zyuan | kgriffs: yes | 16:58 |
| kgriffs | Seems like we should retry in the mongo driver so the client isn't any wiser? | 16:58 |
| flaper87 | I guess we can restore that behavior just for inserts | 16:58 |
| kgriffs | i mean, the transport can retry I gues | 16:58 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: I'd leave that to the backend | 16:58 |
| zyuan | i guess it might be better to let storage do it | 16:58 |
| oz_akan_ | (stepping out) | 16:59 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: also, there's to be a max_retries somewhere | 16:59 |
| zyuan | if transport retry, storage's interface is too complex | 16:59 |
| kgriffs | ok, if someone needs something to do, pls. take a look | 16:59 |
| kgriffs | similar: | 16:59 |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1214974 | 16:59 |
| kgriffs | things can get ugly with this one | 17:00 |
| kgriffs | we need to handle it as gracefully as possible, but I understand we won't totally mitigate things like this | 17:00 |
| kgriffs | (network down or something) | 17:00 |
| flaper87 | we have partial claims, right? | 17:01 |
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| zyuan | i don't think so... | 17:01 |
| zyuan | claim is one to multiple | 17:01 |
| flaper87 | ok, nevermind, my memory sucks | 17:01 |
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| kgriffs | ok, any last thoughts before we wrap this up? | 17:01 |
| * kgriffs always plans too much on the agenda | 17:01 | |
| flaper87 | back to the topic, I agree we have to handle that the best way and at first sight, partial inserts seems reasonable | 17:02 |
| flaper87 | the client will have to retry | 17:02 |
| flaper87 | as long as we give enough info to the client to do that | 17:02 |
| flaper87 | I think it is fine | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | yep | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | ok | 17:02 |
| flaper87 | (same for delete) | 17:02 |
| flaper87 | ok, wrap wrap wrap wrap | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | #info I agree we have to handle that the best way and at first sight, partial inserts seems reasonable | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 17:02 | |
| flaper87 | did I say that? | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Sep 9 17:02:56 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-09-09-16.06.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-09-09-16.06.txt | 17:03 |
| flaper87 | I don't recall saying it | 17:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-09-09-16.06.log.html | 17:03 |
| flaper87 | :P | 17:03 |
| * flaper87 STFU and goes back to #os-marconi | 17:03 | |
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| kgriffs | thanks everyone! | 17:03 |
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