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shadower | okay, here goes | 19:00 |
---|---|---|
shadower | #startmeeting | 19:00 |
openstack | shadower: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 19:00 |
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shadower | #startmeeting Tuskar | 19:00 |
openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 10 19:00:30 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is shadower. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Tuskar)" | 19:00 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tuskar' | 19:00 |
shadower | hello everyone! | 19:00 |
lifeless | o/ | 19:00 |
rpodolyaka | hello! | 19:00 |
lsmola_ | hello | 19:00 |
marios | hey | 19:00 |
jistr | hi :) | 19:00 |
tzumainn | hiya | 19:00 |
ifarkas | hi | 19:00 |
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jcoufal | _o/ | 19:01 |
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matty_dubs | \o/ | 19:01 |
jcoufal | this is our first time :) | 19:01 |
lsmola_ | lol | 19:01 |
shadower | I don't expect us to go through everything on the agenda -- just want to get a sense of timing | 19:01 |
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shadower | Agenda: | 19:01 |
shadower | * Documentation | 19:02 |
shadower | * Simplify development setup | 19:02 |
shadower | * Tests | 19:02 |
shadower | * Releases & Milestones | 19:02 |
shadower | * TripleO (Deployment) session slots on the Summit | 19:02 |
shadower | * Open discussion | 19:02 |
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shadower | #topic Documentation | 19:02 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: Tuskar)" | 19:02 | |
shadower | so docs are in a pretty bad shape | 19:02 |
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shadower | here's a minimum of what I think we need: | 19:03 |
shadower | - project goal | 19:03 |
shadower | - resource classes | 19:03 |
shadower | - our vs. tripleo responsibilities | 19:03 |
shadower | - roadmap | 19:03 |
shadower | - arch overview | 19:03 |
shadower | - have a wiki page on OpenStack | 19:03 |
shadower | the current project description is kind of wishy-washy | 19:03 |
matty_dubs | +1, especially to arch overview and us vs. tripleo | 19:03 |
jcoufal | id' add also racks concept | 19:03 |
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jcoufal | which is pretty crucial | 19:03 |
shadower | jcoufal: good point | 19:04 |
tzumainn | maybe a glossary would make sense - resource classes, racks, flavors, etc | 19:04 |
marios | shadower: taking that to its logical conclusion, we really need a good description of all concepts | 19:04 |
marios | tzumainn: what you said | 19:04 |
tzumainn | because tuskar flavors != nova flavors exactly, right? | 19:04 |
shadower | marios: yup | 19:04 |
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jcoufal | tzumainn: +1 glossary and keeping constant names ;) | 19:04 |
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lifeless | if tuskar flavors are not nova flavors, then -really- recommend renaming them. | 19:04 |
shadower | #info have a glossary pages | 19:05 |
lifeless | because 'flavor' is very well understood in OpenStack | 19:05 |
marios | lifeless: well, they *are* going to be flavors ... once provisioned | 19:05 |
shadower | yup | 19:05 |
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shadower | anyone wants to tackle a particular topic? | 19:05 |
stevebaker | flavor templates? | 19:05 |
marios | lifeless: kind of like 'definitions of flavors' except we haven't passed them to nova | 19:05 |
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shadower | stevebaker: not a bad idea | 19:06 |
jcoufal | tzumainn: they are sort of templates for later registration of flavors in nova when provisioning node, not? | 19:06 |
marios | stevebaker: sure, that or something like that could work | 19:06 |
shadower | protoflavours | 19:06 |
marios | boo | 19:06 |
jcoufal | oh no | 19:06 |
shadower | haha | 19:06 |
marios | :) | 19:06 |
noslzzp | ;) | 19:06 |
jcoufal | :)) | 19:06 |
tzumainn | lol | 19:06 |
lsmola_ | hehe | 19:06 |
tzumainn | I think this highlights the importance of this glossary, though - we all need to agree on terminology | 19:06 |
jcoufal | so let's say constant naming for all concepts | 19:06 |
shadower | yeah | 19:06 |
shadower | okay, I think it's better if people pick a topic and write it up rather than one person doing all the writing | 19:07 |
jcoufal | I'll start separate thread in ML for that | 19:07 |
jcoufal | (naming) | 19:07 |
shadower | #action jcoufal to kick off a glossary ML thread | 19:07 |
marios | jcoufal: am thinking an etherpad may lend itself better to renaming stuff/descriptions | 19:07 |
matty_dubs | shadower: Lacking a more competent volunteer, I'll try to tackle the architecture overview | 19:07 |
jcoufal | shadower: roger that! | 19:07 |
shadower | thx | 19:07 |
matty_dubs | (may need help0 | 19:07 |
tzumainn | shadower, one sec - we want the glossary to have a consistent layout, right? | 19:07 |
jcoufal | marios: it will, just I need to resend link then :) | 19:07 |
shadower | tzumainn: what do you mean? | 19:07 |
tzumainn | so it may make sense to create one first and send it out with the initial ML | 19:08 |
martyntaylor | matty_dubs: I will help you out on that | 19:08 |
shadower | #action martyntaylor and matty_dubs to write up the Tuskar architecture | 19:08 |
tzumainn | shadower, title, overview, links to api, I dunno - each section should be structured the same way | 19:08 |
shadower | tzumainn: we can polish it up later I reckon, let's get something usable up there first | 19:08 |
tzumainn | shadower, okay | 19:08 |
jcoufal | agree, just get some content first | 19:09 |
shadower | cool | 19:09 |
jcoufal | we can polish stuff in time | 19:09 |
shadower | any more takers? | 19:09 |
tzumainn | it's just - if we were to do parallel coding, we'd want everyone to have similar coding style, right? this would be the same | 19:09 |
marios | shadower: sure put me down for docs tasks wherever needed | 19:09 |
jcoufal | tzumainn: no coding for now | 19:09 |
shadower | I'm happy to take up whatever remains | 19:09 |
marios | shadower: (could probably help with arch) | 19:09 |
matty_dubs | tzumainn: I don't disagree, but we can probably tackle that offline. | 19:09 |
jcoufal | tzumainn: oh, you mean coding style guide? | 19:10 |
tzumainn | matty_dubs, okay - I'm just afraid five people will pick five different topics and come up with five completely different ways of formatting the entries | 19:10 |
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jcoufal | not for docs, but in general for the project? | 19:10 |
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shadower | marios: how about you have a look at describing where we differ from tripleo? | 19:10 |
tzumainn | jcoufal, no, I meant for the glossary - I remember you mentioned that there'd be separate pages | 19:10 |
shadower | I'll help of course | 19:10 |
marios | jcoufal: i think tzumainn is saying that the "description document" of each item in the glossary has to be the same | 19:10 |
tzumainn | so each paget should just be formatted the same | 19:10 |
tzumainn | ah, marios said it better than I did : ) | 19:10 |
jcoufal | I wouldn't worry that much | 19:10 |
jcoufal | somebody can send some basic outline | 19:10 |
tzumainn | could you send one with the mail you'll send out on the mailing list? | 19:11 |
jcoufal | but it shouldn't block us dealing with coding now | 19:11 |
marios | jcoufal: tzumainn: but i believe the general consensus is right, as in we need to actually agree on the descriptions first and we can work out the format | 19:11 |
marios | shadower: sure | 19:11 |
shadower | marios: thx | 19:11 |
jistr | also, i wonder if we have proper docs on how to get tuskar running? i don't mean dev env now, i mean more like wiring Tuskar to the rest of openstack and setting it up for actual use | 19:11 |
shadower | #action marios to write up how tuskar differs from tripleo | 19:11 |
shadower | jistr: good point | 19:11 |
jcoufal | tzumainn: I can take some stab on docs outline | 19:11 |
shadower | jistr: wanna volunteer? :-) | 19:12 |
jcoufal | not sure if it will be very useful though :) | 19:12 |
pblaho | jistr: +1 | 19:12 |
rpodolyaka | jistr: +1, but something like TripleO's devtest guide would be very helpful too | 19:12 |
jistr | shadower: i'm wokring on RDO now with jayg | 19:12 |
shadower | okay | 19:12 |
jistr | shadower: not sure when that will be over | 19:12 |
lifeless | so having tripleo-image-elements to install tuskar would be perhaps even better than docs. | 19:12 |
marios | shadower: what's the time frame on these action items? if any | 19:12 |
lifeless | Since that would let the seed cloud bring tuskar up | 19:12 |
jcoufal | rpodolyaka: would you like to help with initial tuskar setup doc? | 19:12 |
shadower | lifeless: next point on the agenda :-) | 19:12 |
shadower | I agree | 19:12 |
lifeless | and you wouldn't need to do manual steps :> | 19:12 |
jcoufal | you went through the process lately | 19:12 |
lifeless | hah, ok :) | 19:13 |
shadower | np | 19:13 |
rpodolyaka | jcoufal: yes, sure | 19:13 |
ifarkas | shadower, I can do the tuskar setup doc | 19:13 |
jcoufal | shadower: ^ | 19:13 |
shadower | #shadower write up the project goal docs | 19:13 |
shadower | #action shadower write up the project goal docs | 19:13 |
shadower | #action ifarkas write up production setup docs | 19:13 |
shadower | anything else re: documentation? | 19:14 |
jcoufal | ifarkas: great you can share it with rdopieralski | 19:14 |
ifarkas | jcoufal, rdopieralski, great! | 19:14 |
shadower | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Tuskar | 19:14 |
shadower | we have a wiki page ^ | 19:14 |
shadower | let's make sure everything links from there | 19:14 |
noslzzp | \o/ | 19:14 |
marios | we have tzumainn's mouse to thank for that :) | 19:15 |
shadower | #topic Simplify development setup | 19:15 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Simplify development setup (Meeting topic: Tuskar)" | 19:15 | |
pblaho | I am just thinking about some documentation inline... and generating it.... some openstack projects does that... using CI gate jobs.... | 19:15 |
shadower | pblaho: once we have the content, why not | 19:15 |
pblaho | but that is probably tied to releasing some packaged stuff | 19:15 |
shadower | I'd start there first tho | 19:15 |
jcoufal | shadower: are we going tu fork devstack somehow? | 19:15 |
pblaho | shadower: good point | 19:15 |
shadower | jcoufal: so devstack integration would be one thing | 19:15 |
shadower | wouldnt' want to fork it | 19:16 |
jcoufal | or integration, yeah, sounds better | 19:16 |
shadower | but as lifeless mentioned: we colud integrate tuskar with tripelo image elemns | 19:16 |
jcoufal | that's what I meant | 19:16 |
shadower | tripleo image elements even | 19:16 |
shadower | lifeless: I'm not sure how exactly that works: can the users pick what parts to include and what not? | 19:16 |
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lifeless | shadower: of course :) | 19:16 |
shadower | lifeless: perfect | 19:17 |
shadower | lifeless: any docs/source you could point us to? | 19:17 |
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lifeless | shadower: if you haven't, you should give devtest.md from tripleo-incubator a spin | 19:17 |
shadower | cheers | 19:17 |
lifeless | shadower: that will give you a feel for the tooling | 19:17 |
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lifeless | shadower: then diskimage-builder/README.md and tripleo-image-elements/README.md for the entry point docs | 19:17 |
shadower | awesome, thanks | 19:18 |
shadower | #action shadower to look at integrating tuskar with tripleo | 19:18 |
shadower | this would allow us to install tuskar whilst deploying tripleo -- which the tuskar users need to do anyway | 19:18 |
shadower | everyone fine with that idea? | 19:18 |
marios | shadower: it would be great if we can actually use that for the seed/master controller for demo | 19:18 |
lsmola_ | shadower, yes | 19:18 |
shadower | yea | 19:19 |
shadower | #topic Tests | 19:19 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Tests (Meeting topic: Tuskar)" | 19:19 | |
jcoufal | sounds good | 19:19 |
* shadower will have to learn to give longer timeout before switching topics | 19:20 | |
jcoufal | np, my bad, was getting cup of tea | 19:20 |
jcoufal | sorry | 19:20 |
shadower | np | 19:20 |
shadower | so tuskar (api) and python-tuskarclient have been using jenkins' CI for a while now | 19:20 |
shadower | we need to do the same for the UI | 19:20 |
shadower | it's all mostly setup but the django 1.4 tests are failing | 19:21 |
lsmola_ | yes, it is very needed | 19:21 |
shadower | anyone againts us leaving 1.4 behind for now? | 19:21 |
shadower | we can add it as soon as anyone says they need it I reckon | 19:21 |
lsmola_ | shadower, nope, we should test the same as the rest of openstack | 19:21 |
jcoufal | shadower: you know what is the django version support in horizon? | 19:21 |
ifarkas | shadower, how long Horizon will support 1.4? | 19:21 |
matty_dubs | Yeah, I'd rather have incomplete tests that pass than tests that are commented out and not run because they're incomplete. | 19:22 |
shadower | Horizon has 1.4 and 1.5, but e.g. Savanna has just 1.5 iirc | 19:22 |
shadower | matty_dubs: not tests, just disabled the environment for now | 19:22 |
pblaho | last time I checked tuskar-ui tests they were not really easy to run.... it would be fine if running "tox" is all you have to do | 19:22 |
matty_dubs | Oh, I see. | 19:22 |
shadower | pblaho: tox is all you need now | 19:22 |
matty_dubs | From tuskar-ui? I've been running tests from horizon. | 19:22 |
jistr | we left behind some tests on tuskar api initially too i think. it's perfectly fine from my point of view. any CI whatsoever helps *a lot*, you can add the rest later | 19:23 |
jcoufal | shadower: I'd say that set up anything as soon as possible, for levaing django 1.4 I'd better be close to what horizon does | 19:23 |
shadower | matty_dubs: you can do that from tuskar ui now | 19:23 |
matty_dubs | jcoufal++ -- start with something now, and if we want 1.4 we can add it later | 19:23 |
lsmola_ | jcoufal +1 | 19:24 |
shadower | everyone else fine with that for now? We *can* add the 1.4 tests later | 19:24 |
jistr | jcoufal, matty_dubs: yeah | 19:24 |
pblaho | start any CI now +++ | 19:24 |
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tzumainn | +1 | 19:24 |
rpodolyaka | +1 | 19:24 |
shadower | #action shadower to enable tuskar-ui CI | 19:24 |
shadower | #agreed we will drop the django 1.4 tests for now | 19:25 |
shadower | anything else on testing? | 19:25 |
shadower | moving swiftly on | 19:26 |
shadower | #topic TripleO (Deployment) session slots on the Summit | 19:26 |
*** openstack changes topic to "TripleO (Deployment) session slots on the Summit (Meeting topic: Tuskar)" | 19:26 | |
shadower | The TripleO project has 5 session slots assigned to the summit. They're willing to share one with Tuskar if we come up with something and it gets accepted. | 19:26 |
matty_dubs | Nice! | 19:26 |
shadower | (tuskar isn't elligible for slots on its own because we're not an official/incubated project) | 19:26 |
jcoufal | Oh, nice | 19:26 |
shadower | some background: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit | 19:27 |
shadower | the sessions proposed so far: http://summit.openstack.org/ | 19:27 |
jcoufal | Many thanks to triple-o guys | 19:27 |
shadower | indeed | 19:27 |
shadower | these are design sessions. No talk with slides, more like disc9ussingh the direction etc. | 19:27 |
shadower | so if you've got ideas, feel free to propose them at the sessions page (or let me do it) under tripleo | 19:28 |
shadower | that's no guarantee they'll be picked but if we don't propose anything, we won't have a slot there at all ;-) | 19:28 |
lifeless | Potentially more than one; we're both focused on deployment, we need to assess the overall set of things that need discussing and then triage down to just 5 :) | 19:29 |
shadower | ++ | 19:29 |
shadower | lifeless: is there a deadline for the session proposals? | 19:29 |
jcoufal | yeah, usually the latest 'hot' stuff and good place for getting all people to the same page | 19:29 |
jcoufal | so it is close to the smmit | 19:29 |
jcoufal | the deadline | 19:29 |
jcoufal | what I've heard about week or 14 days before the summit itself | 19:30 |
lifeless | yeah | 19:30 |
shadower | cool | 19:30 |
jcoufal | but | 19:30 |
jcoufal | some stuff might be accepted earlier | 19:30 |
jcoufal | so they are taking slots | 19:30 |
jcoufal | so the sooner the better | 19:30 |
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shadower | lifeless: are the deployment slots under you guys' control or will someone else pick it up? | 19:31 |
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shadower | nm, we can sort that later | 19:32 |
jcoufal | shadower: I think PTL's are choosing the topics, but not very sure | 19:33 |
shadower | thx | 19:33 |
shadower | next point on teh agenda | 19:33 |
shadower | #topic Releases & Milestones | 19:33 |
lifeless | shadower: it is all me | 19:33 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Releases & Milestones (Meeting topic: Tuskar)" | 19:33 | |
lifeless | shadower: as "OpenStack Deployment PTL" | 19:33 |
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shadower | lifeless: yup. So if you do want to give us a tighter deadline, let us know | 19:34 |
shadower | regarding milestones I think we want to align ourselves with the OpenStack ones: icehouse-{1, 2, 3, rc1, ...} | 19:34 |
shadower | thoughts? | 19:34 |
lifeless | shadower: the one all projects are using is fine I think | 19:35 |
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shadower | lifeless: okay, thanks | 19:35 |
lsmola_ | shadower, agree | 19:35 |
jcoufal | shadower: the sooner we synchronize with openstack ones the better I would say | 19:35 |
jistr | +1 | 19:35 |
jcoufal | so for me it looks fine | 19:35 |
matty_dubs | What does that imply for deadlines for us? | 19:35 |
matty_dubs | i.e., any soon? | 19:35 |
shadower | #agreed we will use the same milestones as openstack | 19:35 |
shadower | matty_dubs: I'll have a look and write it up | 19:36 |
lsmola_ | matty_dubs, you have just missed one :-) | 19:36 |
shadower | lsmola_: you talking h3? | 19:36 |
matty_dubs | lsmola_: What else is new? ;) | 19:36 |
jcoufal | matty_dubs: I would say more targeted planning against these milestones | 19:36 |
lsmola_ | shadower, yes h3 is gone | 19:36 |
jcoufal | currently we already have some basic plans, but we might slightly try to align with openstack milestones (deadlines) | 19:37 |
shadower | lsmola_: yea, I was thinking more like start with the i-series | 19:37 |
lsmola_ | matty_dubs, :-) | 19:37 |
lsmola_ | shadower, yes | 19:37 |
shadower | #action shadower create the icehouse series and the appropriate milestones in launchpad | 19:37 |
marios | shadower: that would make sense given we're currently planning towards hk | 19:37 |
shadower | ya | 19:37 |
lsmola_ | shadower, I am already working on some new ceilometer blueprints, but all can go in after I1 starts | 19:38 |
shadower | cool | 19:38 |
jcoufal | shadower: "1 | 19:39 |
jcoufal | +1 | 19:39 |
lsmola_ | +2 | 19:39 |
shadower | now afaik openstack doesn't have any releases in between the big stable ones every 6 months | 19:39 |
shadower | do we want to have at least a semi stable release that we're confident works | 19:39 |
shadower | for folks to try out? | 19:39 |
matty_dubs | I think that's worthwhile. | 19:39 |
lsmola_ | yes | 19:40 |
matty_dubs | It probably doesn't have to be super-formal. | 19:40 |
tzumainn | +1 | 19:40 |
pblaho | yes... | 19:40 |
lsmola_ | shadower, we should be able to finish crutial blueprints | 19:40 |
stevebaker | stable branches get maintenance releases | 19:40 |
jcoufal | shadower: hmm, what timeframe are you thinking of? | 19:40 |
pblaho | and setup jobs for CI to release package when ready... | 19:40 |
shadower | jcoufal: not sure, after hk perhaps? we ought to have a working snapshot for the demo then | 19:41 |
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marios | shadower: yeah, though will need some rework after the demo ;) | 19:41 |
jcoufal | shadower: something what was on the demo might be released as 'alpha' or whatever version | 19:41 |
shadower | stevebaker: right | 19:41 |
jcoufal | but nobody will be still able to do the setup from scratch | 19:41 |
stevebaker | once tuskar is integrated with tripleo, the need for a stable release might be reduced | 19:41 |
shadower | stevebaker: hmm why would that be? | 19:42 |
* shadower is probably missing something here | 19:42 | |
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stevebaker | because you'll launch a tripleo seed cloud and it will be there ready to use | 19:42 |
stevebaker | and with CI, there will be a good chance that it works ;) | 19:43 |
shadower | fair point | 19:43 |
shadower | okay, so I'd lean towards getting that done | 19:44 |
stevebaker | maintaining a stable branch can be quite a burden, so you might want to delay that for as long as possible | 19:44 |
shadower | yea | 19:44 |
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shadower | stevebaker: I thought more like "we know this tarball works, you can try it out" | 19:44 |
shadower | not doing any proper stable maintenance for now | 19:45 |
stevebaker | hopefully you can say that for at least some of the milestone releases | 19:45 |
shadower | yea | 19:46 |
shadower | okay, I'll have a look at the t-i-e integration and we'll revisit the releases ofter that | 19:46 |
jcoufal | shadower: | 19:46 |
jcoufal | ok | 19:46 |
matty_dubs | t-i-e? | 19:46 |
shadower | matty_dubs: tripleo image elements | 19:46 |
marios | tripleo image elements | 19:46 |
matty_dubs | Thanks :) | 19:46 |
marios | matty_dubs: lifeless through that one at us yesterday ;) | 19:47 |
shadower | yup | 19:47 |
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shadower | #agreed we'll revisit releases after we've integrated with tripleo | 19:47 |
shadower | #topic Open discussion | 19:47 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Tuskar)" | 19:47 | |
shadower | 13 minutes | 19:47 |
jcoufal | now we can say whatever we want? :) | 19:48 |
shadower | anything else you want to get off your chest? | 19:48 |
shadower | jcoufal: pretty much | 19:48 |
marios | oh dear | 19:48 |
shadower | be civil tho | 19:48 |
jcoufal | just kidding :) | 19:48 |
lsmola_ | hehe | 19:48 |
matty_dubs | Thanks to shadower and martyntaylor both for running for PTL! | 19:48 |
jcoufal | yup and congratulations to shadower btw :) | 19:48 |
shadower | cheers | 19:49 |
shadower | still can't decide if it's congrats or condolences I need | 19:49 |
lsmola_ | hehe | 19:49 |
jcoufal | I think the meeting was handled perfectly | 19:49 |
shadower | thanks | 19:49 |
lsmola_ | agreed | 19:49 |
shadower | ready to end it? | 19:49 |
marios | shadower: indeed good job mate | 19:49 |
shadower | cheers | 19:49 |
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jcoufal | no other business here | 19:49 |
matty_dubs | Thanks lifeless for joining us at the crack of dawn, too. | 19:50 |
shadower | #endmeeting | 19:50 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 19:50 | |
* marios can go to bed now | 19:50 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 10 19:50:06 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:50 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tuskar/2013/tuskar.2013-09-10-19.00.html | 19:50 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tuskar/2013/tuskar.2013-09-10-19.00.txt | 19:50 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tuskar/2013/tuskar.2013-09-10-19.00.log.html | 19:50 |
shadower | Thanks everyone! | 19:50 |
marios | 'night all | 19:50 |
ifarkas | thanks you shadower | 19:50 |
lsmola_ | cool, see you tommorrow guys | 19:50 |
stevebaker | see some of y'all in seattle | 19:50 |
rpodolyaka | night! | 19:50 |
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noslzzp | night! | 19:50 |
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jcoufal | g'night folks | 19:50 |
jistr | good night | 19:50 |
shadower | stevebaker: you're coming? cool | 19:50 |
noslzzp | Good job Shadower! | 19:50 |
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shadower | noslzzp: cheers | 19:51 |
stevebaker | yup! | 19:51 |
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jcoufal | shadower: and nicely structured, wow | 19:51 |
shadower | jcoufal: I've lurked and learned | 19:52 |
shadower | speaking of lurking, the TC meeting starts in 8 mins | 19:52 |
jcoufal | shadower: professional | 19:52 |
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