Tuesday, 2013-09-10

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shadowerokay, here goes19:00
shadower#startmeeting19:00
openstackshadower: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'19:00
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shadower#startmeeting Tuskar19:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 10 19:00:30 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is shadower. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Tuskar)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tuskar'19:00
shadowerhello everyone!19:00
lifelesso/19:00
rpodolyakahello!19:00
lsmola_hello19:00
marioshey19:00
jistrhi :)19:00
tzumainnhiya19:00
ifarkashi19:00
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jcoufal_o/19:01
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matty_dubs\o/19:01
jcoufalthis is our first time :)19:01
lsmola_lol19:01
shadowerI don't expect us to go through everything on the agenda -- just want to get a sense of timing19:01
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shadowerAgenda:19:01
shadower* Documentation19:02
shadower* Simplify development setup19:02
shadower* Tests19:02
shadower* Releases & Milestones19:02
shadower* TripleO (Deployment) session slots on the Summit19:02
shadower* Open discussion19:02
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shadower#topic Documentation19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: Tuskar)"19:02
shadowerso docs are in a pretty bad shape19:02
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shadowerhere's a minimum of what I think we need:19:03
shadower  - project goal19:03
shadower  - resource classes19:03
shadower  - our vs. tripleo responsibilities19:03
shadower  - roadmap19:03
shadower  - arch overview19:03
shadower  - have a wiki page on OpenStack19:03
shadowerthe current project description is kind of wishy-washy19:03
matty_dubs+1, especially to arch overview and us vs. tripleo19:03
jcoufalid' add also racks concept19:03
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jcoufalwhich is pretty crucial19:03
shadowerjcoufal: good point19:04
tzumainnmaybe a glossary would make sense - resource classes, racks, flavors, etc19:04
mariosshadower: taking that to its logical conclusion, we really need a good description of all concepts19:04
mariostzumainn: what you said19:04
tzumainnbecause tuskar flavors != nova flavors exactly, right?19:04
shadowermarios: yup19:04
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jcoufaltzumainn: +1 glossary and keeping constant names ;)19:04
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lifelessif tuskar flavors are not nova flavors, then -really- recommend renaming them.19:04
shadower#info have a glossary pages19:05
lifelessbecause 'flavor' is very well understood in OpenStack19:05
marioslifeless: well, they *are* going to be flavors ... once provisioned19:05
shadoweryup19:05
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shadoweranyone wants to tackle a particular topic?19:05
stevebakerflavor templates?19:05
marioslifeless: kind of like 'definitions of flavors' except we haven't passed them to nova19:05
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shadowerstevebaker: not a bad idea19:06
jcoufaltzumainn: they are sort of templates for later registration of flavors in nova when provisioning node, not?19:06
mariosstevebaker: sure, that or something like that could work19:06
shadowerprotoflavours19:06
mariosboo19:06
jcoufaloh no19:06
shadowerhaha19:06
marios:)19:06
noslzzp;)19:06
jcoufal:))19:06
tzumainnlol19:06
lsmola_hehe19:06
tzumainnI think this highlights the importance of this glossary, though - we all need to agree on terminology19:06
jcoufalso let's say constant naming for all concepts19:06
shadoweryeah19:06
shadowerokay, I think it's better if people pick a topic and write it up rather than one person doing all the writing19:07
jcoufalI'll start separate thread in ML for that19:07
jcoufal(naming)19:07
shadower#action jcoufal to kick off a glossary ML thread19:07
mariosjcoufal: am thinking an etherpad may lend itself better to renaming stuff/descriptions19:07
matty_dubsshadower: Lacking a more competent volunteer, I'll try to tackle the architecture overview19:07
jcoufalshadower: roger that!19:07
shadowerthx19:07
matty_dubs(may need help019:07
tzumainnshadower, one sec - we want the glossary to have a consistent layout, right?19:07
jcoufalmarios: it will, just I need to resend link then :)19:07
shadowertzumainn: what do you mean?19:07
tzumainnso it may make sense to create one first and send it out with the initial ML19:08
martyntaylormatty_dubs: I will help you out on that19:08
shadower#action martyntaylor and matty_dubs to write up the Tuskar architecture19:08
tzumainnshadower, title, overview, links to api, I dunno - each section should be structured the same way19:08
shadowertzumainn: we can polish it up later I reckon, let's get something usable up there first19:08
tzumainnshadower, okay19:08
jcoufalagree, just get some content first19:09
shadowercool19:09
jcoufalwe can polish stuff in time19:09
shadowerany more takers?19:09
tzumainnit's just - if we were to do parallel coding, we'd want everyone to have similar coding style, right?  this would be the same19:09
mariosshadower: sure put me down for docs tasks wherever needed19:09
jcoufaltzumainn: no coding for now19:09
shadowerI'm happy to take up whatever remains19:09
mariosshadower: (could probably help with arch)19:09
matty_dubstzumainn: I don't disagree, but we can probably tackle that offline.19:09
jcoufaltzumainn: oh, you mean coding style guide?19:10
tzumainnmatty_dubs, okay - I'm just afraid five people will pick five different topics and come up with five completely different ways of formatting the entries19:10
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jcoufalnot for docs, but in general for the project?19:10
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shadowermarios: how about you have a look at describing where we differ from tripleo?19:10
tzumainnjcoufal, no, I meant for the glossary - I remember you mentioned that there'd be separate pages19:10
shadowerI'll help of course19:10
mariosjcoufal: i think tzumainn is saying that the "description document"  of each item in the glossary has to be the same19:10
tzumainnso each paget should just be formatted the same19:10
tzumainnah, marios said it better than I did : )19:10
jcoufalI wouldn't worry that much19:10
jcoufalsomebody can send some basic outline19:10
tzumainncould you send one with the mail you'll send out on the mailing list?19:11
jcoufalbut it shouldn't block us dealing with coding now19:11
mariosjcoufal: tzumainn: but i believe the general consensus is right, as in we need to actually agree on the descriptions first and we can work out the format19:11
mariosshadower: sure19:11
shadowermarios: thx19:11
jistralso, i wonder if we have proper docs on how to get tuskar running? i don't mean dev env now, i mean more like wiring Tuskar to the rest of openstack and setting it up for actual use19:11
shadower#action marios to write up how tuskar differs from tripleo19:11
shadowerjistr: good point19:11
jcoufaltzumainn: I can take some stab on docs outline19:11
shadowerjistr: wanna volunteer? :-)19:12
jcoufalnot sure if it will be very useful though :)19:12
pblahojistr: +119:12
rpodolyakajistr: +1, but something like TripleO's devtest guide would be very helpful too19:12
jistrshadower: i'm wokring on RDO now with jayg19:12
shadowerokay19:12
jistrshadower: not sure when that will be over19:12
lifelessso having tripleo-image-elements to install tuskar would be perhaps even better than docs.19:12
mariosshadower: what's the time frame on these action items? if any19:12
lifelessSince that would let the seed cloud bring tuskar up19:12
jcoufalrpodolyaka: would you like to help with initial tuskar setup doc?19:12
shadowerlifeless: next point on the agenda :-)19:12
shadowerI agree19:12
lifelessand you wouldn't need to do manual steps :>19:12
jcoufalyou went through the process lately19:12
lifelesshah, ok :)19:13
shadowernp19:13
rpodolyakajcoufal: yes, sure19:13
ifarkasshadower, I can do the tuskar setup doc19:13
jcoufalshadower: ^19:13
shadower#shadower write up the project goal docs19:13
shadower#action shadower write up the project goal docs19:13
shadower#action ifarkas write up production setup docs19:13
shadoweranything else re: documentation?19:14
jcoufalifarkas: great you can share it with rdopieralski19:14
ifarkasjcoufal, rdopieralski, great!19:14
shadower#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Tuskar19:14
shadowerwe have a wiki page ^19:14
shadowerlet's make sure everything links from there19:14
noslzzp\o/19:14
marioswe have tzumainn's mouse to thank for that :)19:15
shadower#topic Simplify development setup19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Simplify development setup (Meeting topic: Tuskar)"19:15
pblahoI am just thinking about some documentation inline... and generating it.... some openstack projects does that... using CI gate jobs....19:15
shadowerpblaho: once we have the content, why not19:15
pblahobut that is probably tied to releasing some packaged stuff19:15
shadowerI'd start there first tho19:15
jcoufalshadower: are we going tu fork devstack somehow?19:15
pblahoshadower: good point19:15
shadowerjcoufal: so devstack integration would be one thing19:15
shadowerwouldnt' want to fork it19:16
jcoufalor integration, yeah, sounds better19:16
shadowerbut as lifeless mentioned: we colud integrate tuskar with tripelo image elemns19:16
jcoufalthat's what I meant19:16
shadowertripleo image elements even19:16
shadowerlifeless: I'm not sure how exactly that works: can the users pick what parts to include and what not?19:16
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lifelessshadower: of course :)19:16
shadowerlifeless: perfect19:17
shadowerlifeless: any docs/source you could point us to?19:17
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lifelessshadower: if you haven't, you should give devtest.md from tripleo-incubator a spin19:17
shadowercheers19:17
lifelessshadower: that will give you a feel for the tooling19:17
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lifelessshadower: then diskimage-builder/README.md and tripleo-image-elements/README.md for the entry point docs19:17
shadowerawesome, thanks19:18
shadower#action shadower to look at integrating tuskar with tripleo19:18
shadowerthis would allow us to install tuskar whilst deploying tripleo -- which the tuskar users need to do anyway19:18
shadowereveryone fine with that idea?19:18
mariosshadower: it would be great if we can actually use that for the seed/master controller for demo19:18
lsmola_shadower, yes19:18
shadoweryea19:19
shadower#topic Tests19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Tests (Meeting topic: Tuskar)"19:19
jcoufalsounds good19:19
* shadower will have to learn to give longer timeout before switching topics19:20
jcoufalnp, my bad, was getting cup of tea19:20
jcoufalsorry19:20
shadowernp19:20
shadowerso tuskar (api) and python-tuskarclient have been using jenkins' CI for a while now19:20
shadowerwe need to do the same for the UI19:20
shadowerit's all mostly setup but the django 1.4 tests are failing19:21
lsmola_yes, it is very needed19:21
shadoweranyone againts us leaving 1.4 behind for now?19:21
shadowerwe can add it as soon as anyone says they need it I reckon19:21
lsmola_shadower, nope, we should test the same as the rest of openstack19:21
jcoufalshadower: you know what is the django version support in horizon?19:21
ifarkasshadower, how long Horizon will support 1.4?19:21
matty_dubsYeah, I'd rather have incomplete tests that pass than tests that are commented out and not run because they're incomplete.19:22
shadowerHorizon has 1.4 and 1.5, but e.g. Savanna has just 1.5 iirc19:22
shadowermatty_dubs: not tests, just disabled the environment for now19:22
pblaholast time I checked tuskar-ui tests they were not really easy to run.... it would be fine if running "tox" is all you have to do19:22
matty_dubsOh, I see.19:22
shadowerpblaho: tox is all you need now19:22
matty_dubsFrom tuskar-ui? I've been running tests from horizon.19:22
jistrwe left behind some tests on tuskar api initially too i think. it's perfectly fine from my point of view. any CI whatsoever helps *a lot*, you can add the rest later19:23
jcoufalshadower: I'd say that set up anything as soon as possible, for levaing django 1.4 I'd better be close to what horizon does19:23
shadowermatty_dubs: you can do that from tuskar ui now19:23
matty_dubsjcoufal++ -- start with something now, and if we want 1.4 we can add it later19:23
lsmola_jcoufal +119:24
shadowereveryone else fine with that for now? We *can* add the 1.4 tests later19:24
jistrjcoufal, matty_dubs: yeah19:24
pblahostart any CI now +++19:24
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tzumainn+119:24
rpodolyaka+119:24
shadower#action shadower to enable tuskar-ui CI19:24
shadower#agreed we will drop the django 1.4 tests for now19:25
shadoweranything else on testing?19:25
shadowermoving swiftly on19:26
shadower#topic TripleO (Deployment) session slots on the Summit19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "TripleO (Deployment) session slots on the Summit (Meeting topic: Tuskar)"19:26
shadowerThe TripleO project has 5 session slots assigned to the summit. They're willing to share one with Tuskar if we come up with something and it gets accepted.19:26
matty_dubsNice!19:26
shadower(tuskar isn't elligible for slots on its own because we're not an official/incubated project)19:26
jcoufalOh, nice19:26
shadowersome background: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit19:27
shadowerthe sessions proposed so far: http://summit.openstack.org/19:27
jcoufalMany thanks to triple-o guys19:27
shadowerindeed19:27
shadowerthese are design sessions. No talk with slides, more like disc9ussingh the direction etc.19:27
shadowerso if you've got ideas, feel free to propose them at the sessions page (or let me do it) under tripleo19:28
shadowerthat's no guarantee they'll be picked but if we don't propose anything, we won't have a slot there at all ;-)19:28
lifelessPotentially more than one; we're both focused on deployment, we need to assess the overall set of things that need discussing and then triage down to just 5 :)19:29
shadower++19:29
shadowerlifeless: is there a deadline for the session proposals?19:29
jcoufalyeah, usually the latest 'hot' stuff and good place for getting all people to the same page19:29
jcoufalso it is close to the smmit19:29
jcoufalthe deadline19:29
jcoufalwhat I've heard about week or 14 days before the summit itself19:30
lifelessyeah19:30
shadowercool19:30
jcoufalbut19:30
jcoufalsome stuff might be accepted earlier19:30
jcoufalso they are taking slots19:30
jcoufalso the sooner the better19:30
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shadowerlifeless: are the deployment slots under you guys' control or will someone else pick it up?19:31
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shadowernm, we can sort that later19:32
jcoufalshadower: I think PTL's are choosing the topics, but not very sure19:33
shadowerthx19:33
shadowernext point on teh agenda19:33
shadower#topic Releases & Milestones19:33
lifelessshadower: it is all me19:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Releases & Milestones (Meeting topic: Tuskar)"19:33
lifelessshadower: as "OpenStack Deployment PTL"19:33
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shadowerlifeless: yup. So if you do want to give us a tighter deadline, let us know19:34
shadowerregarding milestones I think we want to align ourselves with the OpenStack ones: icehouse-{1, 2, 3, rc1, ...}19:34
shadowerthoughts?19:34
lifelessshadower: the one all projects are using is fine I think19:35
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shadowerlifeless: okay, thanks19:35
lsmola_shadower, agree19:35
jcoufalshadower: the sooner we synchronize with openstack ones the better I would say19:35
jistr+119:35
jcoufalso for me it looks fine19:35
matty_dubsWhat does that imply for deadlines for us?19:35
matty_dubsi.e., any soon?19:35
shadower#agreed we will use the same milestones as openstack19:35
shadowermatty_dubs: I'll have a look and write it up19:36
lsmola_matty_dubs, you have just missed one :-)19:36
shadowerlsmola_: you talking h3?19:36
matty_dubslsmola_: What else is new? ;)19:36
jcoufalmatty_dubs: I would say more targeted planning against these milestones19:36
lsmola_shadower, yes h3 is gone19:36
jcoufalcurrently we already have some basic plans, but we might slightly try to align with openstack milestones (deadlines)19:37
shadowerlsmola_: yea, I was thinking more like start with the i-series19:37
lsmola_matty_dubs, :-)19:37
lsmola_shadower, yes19:37
shadower#action shadower create the icehouse series and the appropriate milestones in launchpad19:37
mariosshadower: that would make sense given we're currently planning towards hk19:37
shadowerya19:37
lsmola_shadower, I am already working on some new ceilometer blueprints, but all can go in after I1 starts19:38
shadowercool19:38
jcoufalshadower: "119:39
jcoufal+119:39
lsmola_+219:39
shadowernow afaik openstack doesn't have any releases in between the big stable ones every 6 months19:39
shadowerdo we want to have at least a semi stable release that we're confident works19:39
shadowerfor folks to try out?19:39
matty_dubsI think that's worthwhile.19:39
lsmola_yes19:40
matty_dubsIt probably doesn't have to be super-formal.19:40
tzumainn+119:40
pblahoyes...19:40
lsmola_shadower, we should be able to finish crutial blueprints19:40
stevebakerstable branches get maintenance releases19:40
jcoufalshadower: hmm, what timeframe are you thinking of?19:40
pblahoand setup jobs for CI to release package when ready...19:40
shadowerjcoufal: not sure, after hk perhaps? we ought to have a working snapshot for the demo then19:41
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mariosshadower: yeah, though will need some rework after the demo ;)19:41
jcoufalshadower: something what was on the demo might be released as 'alpha' or whatever version19:41
shadowerstevebaker: right19:41
jcoufalbut nobody will be still able to do the setup from scratch19:41
stevebakeronce tuskar is integrated with tripleo, the need for a stable release might be reduced19:41
shadowerstevebaker: hmm why would that be?19:42
* shadower is probably missing something here19:42
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stevebakerbecause you'll launch a tripleo seed cloud and it will be there ready to use19:42
stevebakerand with CI, there will be a good chance that it works ;)19:43
shadowerfair point19:43
shadowerokay, so I'd lean towards getting that done19:44
stevebakermaintaining a stable branch can be quite a burden, so you might want to delay that for as long as possible19:44
shadoweryea19:44
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shadowerstevebaker: I thought more like "we know this tarball works, you can try it out"19:44
shadowernot doing any proper stable maintenance for now19:45
stevebakerhopefully you can say that for at least some of the milestone releases19:45
shadoweryea19:46
shadowerokay, I'll have a look at the t-i-e integration and we'll revisit the releases ofter that19:46
jcoufalshadower:19:46
jcoufalok19:46
matty_dubst-i-e?19:46
shadowermatty_dubs: tripleo image elements19:46
mariostripleo image elements19:46
matty_dubsThanks :)19:46
mariosmatty_dubs: lifeless through that one at us yesterday ;)19:47
shadoweryup19:47
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shadower#agreed we'll revisit releases after we've integrated with tripleo19:47
shadower#topic Open discussion19:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Tuskar)"19:47
shadower13 minutes19:47
jcoufalnow we can say whatever we want? :)19:48
shadoweranything else you want to get off your chest?19:48
shadowerjcoufal: pretty much19:48
mariosoh dear19:48
shadowerbe civil tho19:48
jcoufaljust kidding :)19:48
lsmola_hehe19:48
matty_dubsThanks to shadower and martyntaylor both for running for PTL!19:48
jcoufalyup and congratulations to shadower btw :)19:48
shadowercheers19:49
shadowerstill can't decide if it's congrats or condolences I need19:49
lsmola_hehe19:49
jcoufalI think the meeting was handled perfectly19:49
shadowerthanks19:49
lsmola_agreed19:49
shadowerready to end it?19:49
mariosshadower: indeed good job mate19:49
shadowercheers19:49
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jcoufalno other business here19:49
matty_dubsThanks lifeless for joining us at the crack of dawn, too.19:50
shadower#endmeeting19:50
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)"19:50
* marios can go to bed now19:50
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 10 19:50:06 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:50
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tuskar/2013/tuskar.2013-09-10-19.00.html19:50
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tuskar/2013/tuskar.2013-09-10-19.00.txt19:50
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tuskar/2013/tuskar.2013-09-10-19.00.log.html19:50
shadowerThanks everyone!19:50
marios'night all19:50
ifarkasthanks you shadower19:50
lsmola_cool, see you tommorrow guys19:50
stevebakersee some of y'all in seattle19:50
rpodolyakanight!19:50
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noslzzpnight!19:50
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jcoufalg'night folks19:50
jistrgood night19:50
shadowerstevebaker: you're coming? cool19:50
noslzzpGood job Shadower!19:50
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shadowernoslzzp: cheers19:51
stevebakeryup!19:51
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jcoufalshadower: and nicely structured, wow19:51
shadowerjcoufal: I've lurked and learned19:52
shadowerspeaking of lurking, the TC meeting starts in 8 mins19:52
jcoufalshadower: professional19:52
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