Wednesday, 2013-11-20

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kiall#startmeeting Designate17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 20 17:00:19 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is kiall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Designate)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'designate'17:00
kiallAgenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Designate17:00
kiallWho's about?17:00
msiskHere.17:00
eankutsehere17:00
mugsiehere17:01
tsimmonsHere. (sort of, in class)17:01
kiallLooks like we're short a few .. ekarlso / simonmcc about?17:01
artomHere.17:01
simonmcchere17:01
kiallAnyway - Let's start :)17:01
kiall#topic Review action items from last week17:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last week (Meeting topic: Designate)"17:01
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kiallTwo items from last week, both for me: place incubation on agenda (done..) .. and put agenda up before the day of the meet (done!)17:02
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eankutsegreat!17:02
kiall#topic Incubation Discussion17:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Incubation Discussion (Meeting topic: Designate)"17:02
eankutse:-)17:02
kiallSo - It's been a while since we last discussed this.17:03
kiall(IRC lag is awful today :/)17:03
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mugsiedo we have a page done up for this?17:03
kiallI believe we should discuss the merits today, and have a quick vote next week.17:04
mugsiecool17:04
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kiallmugsie: no, the logs from today should probably be turned into one though17:04
kiallSo - The key reasons we didn't get the +1 for incubation last time, was the # of people involved was too low ..17:04
kiallWhat do people think? Are we at a point yet where we can reapply and not get knocked down due to ^ again?17:05
artomWhat's enough people according to them?17:06
simonmccso we have 3 major orgs involved now?17:06
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kiallartom: there wasn't a specific #17:06
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jmcbrideWe also have a fella from Redhat in Austin this week that wanted to meet with us about Designate17:06
artomkiall, heh, so we don't know what to aim for.17:07
vinod1That makes it 4 orgs.  Should be good to reapply I think17:07
kialljmcbride: cool, do you happen to know the name?17:07
kiallartom: pretty much :)17:07
artomConversely, how many people/orgs came onboard since that verdict?17:07
kiall2 (3 if you include vinod1's RH suggestion)17:07
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mugsieI am not sure... what have other groups who have gotten incubated had?17:07
jmcbrideKiall: The fella from Redhat's name is Alex Barreto17:07
kiallPreviousally, it was just HP, and really just me17:07
kiallHumm - That doesn't sound like the RH guy I was speaking to in Hong Kong. Anyway, sidetrack :)17:08
artomWell there's RAX now, and eNovance, though I'm pretty alone over here.17:08
jmcbridewould it make sense to informally chat with the folks that were on the incubation review to see their current thoughts?17:08
mugsieyeah, i think thats a good idea17:08
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mugsiethey could give guidence for what others have had17:09
kialljmcbride: absolutely, but, I think we should have a Yay or Nay amongst ourselves first17:09
jmcbridewhat do we have to lose with a "yay"?17:10
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mugsieisn't it difficult to reapply again if we get a no, right?17:10
kialljmcbride: lots :) We don't want to be rejected a second time, so we need to feel that we're ready, regardless of what others think!17:11
jmcbridegood point.17:11
artomWell, over here at eNovance it's not yet deployed in production.17:11
artomSo to err on the cautious side, I'd say nay just for that.17:11
simonmccI'm beginning to wonder what incubation actually gets us17:11
artomDoes RAX have a prod deployment?17:12
jmcbrideseems to me that before voting, it would be nice to hear back from an informal chat with the  incubation folks17:12
jmcbrideRackspace does not.17:12
simonmccartom - that's a good point AFAIK, HP is the only prod designate17:12
kiallsimonmcc: more users, developers, etc17:12
artomMaybe wait until it's deployed in prod in more places then?17:12
kiallthere are a few other designate deploys - none contributors though17:12
artomOr perhaps contributing deploys.17:13
mugsieright, i think that is agood benchmark17:13
* kiall would need to look through a years worth of IRC logs to find the details though 17:13
mugsie2 -3 more contributing deploys17:13
simonmccI'm with artom, a few more production environments would be a strong case17:13
kiallI think I agree, but I'm not sure when that will happen, so I'm not convinced17:14
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simonmccdoes RAX or eNovance have a timeline, even if they can't publish it?17:15
artomThere's traction over here for a prod deployment, but since everyone has a million other things to do, it's hard to concretise and move forward.17:15
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eankutseWe are currently looking at feature parity (maybe API v2) to start some deployment17:15
eankutseno specific time17:15
eankutseyet tho17:15
kiallApplying for incubation is encouraged to be done at the beginning of a development cycle, which is now-ish, 6 months from now, 12 months from now etc etc17:16
jmcbrideI just chatted with the DB project (trove)17:16
jmcbrideWhen they applied for incubation, they only had two organizations (Rackspace and HP)17:17
jmcbridetwo orgs contributing to the code.  Only one of them had an actual deployment.17:17
mugsiejmcbride: it was 2 production deploys though, wasnt it?17:17
mugsieah..17:17
kiallHP had it in beta, RAX in production17:17
ekarlsostart deployment of what ? trove?17:18
ekarlsosorry didn't follow too closely17:18
kiallekarlso: discussing incubation17:18
kialljmcbride just had a quick chat with the trove folks sitting next to him ;)17:18
ekarlsoah, RAX doesn't use trove ?17:19
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kiallYes - they do17:19
kiallAnyway - total sidetrack :)17:19
ekarlsook ;)17:19
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eankutseSo are there also technical requirements that Designate would have to meeting for incubation and are we ready with those?17:20
jmcbridehere is the document the trove (formerly known as Reddwarf) folks put together: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReddwarfAppliesForIncubation17:20
kialleankutse: yes/no .. I believe things are changing slightly now so some tech requirements must be met before applying, but I also think we meet most of them17:21
eankutsek17:21
kialle.g. automated testing via jenkins/gerrit, devstack integration (we have a DS fork with that..) etc17:21
kiall#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate_Incubation_Application17:21
kiall#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate_Incubation_Application17:21
kiallFirst link ^ is our original application17:22
jmcbrideThis part in particular is probably something we need to address regarding number of contributors: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReddwarfAppliesForIncubation#Other_project_developers_and_qualifications:17:22
kiall(Probably needs some updating ;))17:22
eankutseKiall: both links are the same17:22
kialleankutse: lol.. whoops :)17:22
kiall#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate_Incubation_Application17:22
kiall(easier to find the links in the summary ^ way)17:22
kiallOMG17:23
kiall#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReddwarfAppliesForIncubation17:23
kiallfinally ;)17:23
eankutse:-)17:23
kiallSo. What are peoples gut feelings - Is it time? or wait for some condition, or wait so some period of time? (Not a vote - We'll vote next week, after getting a chance to discuss with others outside this room..)17:25
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ekarlsoyou need to have a certain number of tests etc before you can apply17:25
mugsieI say wait, unless we get a good indication of passing in informal talks17:25
kiallekarlso: That seems like a really arbitrary requirement - link? ;)17:26
mugsiewe do have the advantage that we had quite a bit of coverage in HK, and were in the OpenStack newsletter this week17:26
eankutseI suggest we open up a wiki page where we can document what we find as requirements over the next week and then use that as one of the inputs to voting later17:26
jmcbrideHow many developers with contributions do we have?17:26
kiall#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/NewProjects17:26
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kialljmcbride: if you believe GitHub, 16..17:27
ekarlsonvm me kiall17:27
jmcbridetrove (reddwarf) had 1717:27
simonmccekarlso are you referring to this: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/incubation-requirements (from this thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2013-November/000404.html)17:28
kialljmcbride: were all of those active?17:28
jmcbridekiall: I don't know, let me ask.17:28
ekarlsodon't know of emails or such, just remember a discussion in #-infra17:28
kiallAccording to GitHub - Trove currently has 41 .. Still not sure I believe GH's numbers though17:29
mugsie#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate/Incubation_Discussion17:30
mugsiecreated the wiki page for people to put thoughts into later on ^17:30
kiallThanks mugsie17:30
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eankutsemugsie: thx17:30
kiallmugsie: can you summarize the logs after this meet onto that page?17:30
simonmcclooks like at least one other project is applying for incubation on this cycle: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2013-November/000414.html (Manila)17:31
kiallThen, we can continue adding etc17:31
mugsieyup, action me on it will you?17:31
* kiall has never heard of Manila17:31
ekarlsohttp://stackalytics.com/?release=havana&metric=commits&project_type=all&module=trove&company=&user_id=17:31
ekarlsothat's 40 engineers during havana17:31
ekarlso10 until now for IH17:32
simonmccline 31 onwards of this is interesting: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ManilaIncubationApplication17:32
kiallOkay - How about, we summarize thoughts so far on that wiki page, have a chat with some TC folks, and come back next week?17:33
simonmccok17:33
kiallheh - cice find simonmcc  :)17:33
kiallnice*17:33
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eankutseagree17:34
kiall#action kiall put Incubation back on agenda for next week.17:34
kiall#action Reach out to some TC folks for opinions17:34
jmcbridekiall: the trove folks invited everyone on the project to add their names to the incubation application list17:34
artomWat.17:35
jmcbrideindividuals were responsible for adding themselves if they thought they were contributors.17:35
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kialljmcbride: okay - I suppose that makes sense!17:35
kiallOkay - I think we pause here, and move on to the next topic. We'll summarize to Grahams wiki page and discuss again next week. Any final comments before we do?17:36
jmcbrideThe trovians also said that "project developers" is not clearly defined. If you have folks that are working on a deployment but not necessarily contributing code - they probably fit the definition.17:36
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kiallThat explains 1 or 2 of the names I noticed in there ;)17:37
russellbnote that it's just just a raw number17:37
russellbit's how  many are actively participating17:38
russellbnot just how many have submitted a patch or two17:38
kiallrussellb: heya :)17:38
russellbnot* just a raw number17:38
russellbalso, we're working on coming up with a much clearer definition of the TC's expectations: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2013-November/000415.html17:39
kiallExcellent - We'll have to read up on those, I assume these came out of summit discussions?17:40
artomI think some of those still need clarification.17:40
artomEx: "Project should have a diverse and active team of contributors"17:41
kiallrussellb: I might ping you tomorrow with some Q's, and seeking some opinions. If you don't mind?17:41
russellbsounds great17:42
russellbit's still a work in progress17:42
russellbthe docs are just being started17:42
russellbbut just letting you guys know that we recognize that more clarification is needed, and we're working to resolve that17:42
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jmcbriderussellb: no doubt, it just updated before my eyes ;)17:42
russellband hopefully will have something in the coming weeks17:42
artomAwesome :)17:43
mugsiecool17:43
kiallOkay - I think that's a pretty good reason to simply wait another few weeks before deciding17:43
mugsie##agreed17:43
russellbyeah, i think if you applied, we'd probably want to wait a few weeks while we settle on criteria17:43
kiallAnyone disagree?17:43
artom#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/incubation-requirements17:43
tsimmonsSounds reasonable.17:44
eankutseWe definitely could use some time17:44
simonmccwaiting sounds the best plan17:44
kiallGreat - Let's move on so!17:44
kiallThanks russellb + everyone :)17:44
kiall#topic Blueprint Backlog - Prioritization17:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Backlog - Prioritization (Meeting topic: Designate)"17:44
kiallover to you mugsie17:44
russellbnp17:44
mugsiethanks17:44
mugsiebasically, there is a lot of blueprints sitting in launchpad, and i think we should at somepoint in the near future go through them17:45
betsymugsie: good idea17:45
mugsiedecides the priorities, ordering, and if they are requried at all17:45
eankutseagree17:46
mugsieI would suggest a separate meeting one day next week, where we can do bp's item by item17:46
mugsie(or the week after)17:46
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kiallThat's probably a good idea - we're short on time as is17:46
betsyNext week is Thanksgiving week here. :)17:46
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mugsiewell, that would not be a good idea then :)17:47
mugsieweek after?17:47
betsysounds good to me17:47
mugsieIRC, or VC (Google Hangouts etc)?17:47
eankutsefine with me17:48
eankutsewould prefer VC17:48
artom20 bps...17:48
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artomHow long can each one take?17:48
artomIRC is obviously slower17:48
kiallI'm easy - Just AFK Friday/Monday of this week17:48
mugsiei reckon, some will be 30 seconds, some will be 5 mins...17:49
mugsienot long overall17:49
mugsieI will set a date, and let everyone know then?17:49
artomOK for me.17:49
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kiallmugsie: need emails addresses for anyone to organize a time?17:50
mugsieAre people ok with google hangouts? best one i have found for larger groups17:50
mugsieand yes, what kiall said17:50
mugsieor we could use the -dev mailing list17:50
mugsiebut do we want to?17:50
kiallI think, for this case, we probably want to keep the call just for those of us involved.17:51
mugsiecool.17:51
eankutsei think so too17:51
mugsiebest thing, people email me? graham.hayes@hp.com17:51
eankutsei can give my email here if that's fine17:51
eankutseok. Will email mugsie17:51
kiall#action mugsie to organize VC for BP backlog review and general planning17:52
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tsimmonsSure. That works. Availability for Dec 2 - Dec 6?17:52
kiallPlease email him so we can get everyone on 1 thread to organize the whole timezone and scheduling malarky :)17:52
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kiallOkay - Moving very very quickly on!17:53
kiall#topic Blueprint Standards17:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Standards (Meeting topic: Designate)"17:53
mugsiebasicly, tying in with the last topic17:53
kiallmugsie suggested this item too .. (and I know I'm the worst offender)17:53
kiallBut - I think betsy's BP serves as a perfect template for what we *should* be doing .. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate/Blueprints/Blacklist_API17:54
mugsiehave a minimum set of standards for a bp to be marked as accepted... I would suggest having a template wiki page, people can get started from17:54
betsy:D17:54
mugsieand yeah, betsy's is the one to aim for :)17:54
* artom feels inadequate.17:54
kiallbetsy: you'll notice ekarlso's WIP blueprint is based on your template ;) https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate/Blueprints/Reverse17:55
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mugsiethats it really, I would suggest that i stick an example templte up, with a few guides, and we vote on it nxt week?17:56
artomBut then not all bps have APIs in them.17:56
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kiallartom: It's more about the level of detail, the intro paragraph  explaining the why etc rather than the API spec17:56
mugsieyup, just an overview of general changes to the system17:57
kiallMoving really really quickly on - 2 mins left..17:57
tsimmonsSounds reasonable. It'll be good to them in a standard format.17:57
kiall#topic Open Discussion17:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Designate)"17:57
kiallAny other business?17:57
eankutseKiall: I know you've been busy but did you get the chance to look at APIv2 Filtering yet?17:57
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kiallekarlso has a  WIP blueprint up at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Designate/Blueprints/Reverse for handling floating IP reverse DNS. It's not complete, but feel free to ping either of us with Q's17:57
kialleankutse: I managed to get almost all of today on V2 stuff, but not filtering specifically.17:58
eankutsek17:58
artomOpenStack aims to be compatible with the AWS APIs, no?17:58
artomShould Designate do the same with Route53?17:58
kiallI'm getting to the point that I'm keeping email and chat closed so I can stay distraction free ;)17:58
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mugsieartom: i would say no17:59
hub_capkiall: half past17:59
betsyartom: agree with mugsie17:59
kiallhub_cap: that's right17:59
eankutsekiall: cool. Hope you'll be successful on that :-). Looking fwd to the Filtering stuff when you get the chance17:59
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kiallartom: that's a whole other discussion - I'm of the opinion that we pay no attention to the R53 API. But - That's just me17:59
mugsiemainly because it is a terrible API17:59
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artomHehe, ok then. Was just asking :)18:00
betsyI'm in full agreement with that.18:00
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artomSeems there's a strong consensus against it.18:00
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betsy;)18:00
kiallOkay - Times up. Thanks all! Please feel free to add agenda items onto the wiki for next week.18:00
kiall#endmeeting18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 20 18:00:50 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2013/designate.2013-11-20-17.00.html18:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2013/designate.2013-11-20-17.00.txt18:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/designate/2013/designate.2013-11-20-17.00.log.html18:00
eankutsebye18:00
hub_caphey kiall we moved our meeting to right after yours18:00
mugsiebye18:01
hub_capso i can give u shit about time and "proper" english now18:01
hub_cap#startmeeting trove18:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Nov 20 18:01:14 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hub_cap. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: trove)"18:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'trove'18:01
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kiallhub_cap: lol .. you stalking me now?18:01
juiceo/18:01
hub_cappossibly18:01
kevinconwayo/18:01
cp16neto^/18:01
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robertmyerso/18:01
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pdmarso/18:02
vipulo/18:02
datsun180boh of course i'm here18:02
redthruxo/18:02
hub_capliar datsun180b18:02
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hub_capok lol @ the fact that all the mirantis guys arent here, smiling cuz its earlier now18:02
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SlickNikhere18:02
hub_capdenis_makogon: around? ikhudoshyn? isviridov?18:02
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datsun180bGood thing we log our meeting notes18:03
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hub_capok so this meeting is pretty short this wk... there is very little on the agenda18:03
hub_cap#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TroveMeeting#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting18:03
grapexo/18:03
hub_cap#topic action items18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "action items (Meeting topic: trove)"18:03
hub_capi did none of my items18:03
espo/18:03
hub_capi was supposed to get a thread started w/ replication18:03
hub_capits still on my todo list18:03
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vipulre-action it18:04
hub_capwhich is totally orgmode datsun180b18:04
datsun180bwhat18:04
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hub_cap#action get a thread started wrt clustering/replication/recipes18:04
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hub_cap#undo18:04
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x3653fd0>18:04
hub_cap#action hub_cap get a thread started wrt clustering/replication/recipes18:04
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SlickNikyou need a name :P18:04
hub_capi bestow ron and ziggy upon myself as names18:04
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grapex#vote ziggy18:05
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hub_cap:)18:05
hub_cap#topic old version history in gerrit18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "old version history in gerrit (Meeting topic: trove)"18:05
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hub_capok so... maybe im the only person here who didnt know about it18:05
cp16netamazingnewss18:05
hub_capbut u can diff patchsets in gerrit18:05
vipulumm old news :D18:05
hub_capby changing "Old Version History:" dropdown to the previous patchset, you can see the diffs between them18:05
grapexI can't believe I was on top of how OpenStack collaboration tooling worked for once.18:06
juiceYeah I was doing that in 6th grade18:06
hub_capvipul: ya not for me :)18:06
robertmyersjuice: lol18:06
grapexThey have those seminars at the summit, "Gerrit and You"18:06
hub_capjuice: lol drinkin yourself and diffing patchsets18:06
hub_capoh grapex i missed that... i was drunk18:06
juiceHa ha ha18:06
grapexhub_cap: Ah, the other seminar they hold each summit.18:06
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vipuli thought that _the_ seminar18:07
hub_capok so then il be moving on18:07
hub_cap#topic Moving the reference agent18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Moving the reference agent (Meeting topic: trove)"18:08
robertmyerslets do it!18:08
hub_capim all for it18:08
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hub_caplet me touch base w/ the infra folks about removing the guest agent18:08
grapexWe should give it a name too- like "Reffy" or something.18:08
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grapexIt's mascot could be an adorable cartoon dog.18:09
vipulwe should ask them how they gate these sorts of things18:09
vipulsucks to have to manually coordinate18:09
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hub_capgrapex: lets go w/ ruff pup18:09
grapexvipul: What if we start the repo now, and see if we can set up gating18:09
grapexthen once it works with all the CI goodness we can begin moving the code over.18:10
SlickNikI'm familiar with how to create a new repo...18:10
robertmyerscan't trove just install the latest form git18:10
robertmyerslike the client?18:10
vipulwell what if you have a change that touches both18:10
datsun180bi propose the name trove-man-about-town for the liberated reference guest agent18:10
vipulyou have to make sure the guest goes in first18:10
hub_capmordred said moving it is fine, no formal approval needed18:10
grapexvipul: That concern already arises with the client.18:10
cp16netyeah sounds like the same issues we have seen already18:11
vipulyea.. i just fear adding more of those unless there is a easy way to have Jenkins do that18:11
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robertmyersI think it should be hard to change it.. cause it is too easy now18:11
SlickNikBasically you have to have another github repo somewhere, and update the ci codebase with a few things including name / permissions of the codebase, and which repo to suck in the initial code from.18:11
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vipuljust means we'll be merging things in Guest with a trust me (tm)18:11
datsun180bright, we've never ever done that before18:12
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hub_capguys18:12
hub_captrust me18:12
hub_capits gonna work18:12
robertmyers(tm)18:13
hub_capthx robertmyers18:13
hub_cap:P18:13
vipuli'm all for moving the guest out.. let's see if tehre is a way to test multiple repos together18:13
datsun180b(cc na)18:13
cp16netwhere has trust gotten us?18:13
cp16net:-P18:13
SlickNikbut tm is ™18:13
robertmyersSlickNik: lol18:13
hub_capdevstack tests should handle that vipul18:13
* hub_cap thinks heh18:13
hub_capbut i agree18:14
hub_caplets not move the client unless its easier to tests18:14
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juiceIs this thing on?18:15
datsun180bjuice: yes hello18:15
hub_capyea lets talk to infra18:15
hub_capSlickNik:  wanna take that?18:15
SlickNiksure18:15
SlickNik#action: SlickNik to talk to infra on what the best way to split out reffy is.18:16
hub_capruff pup18:16
kevinconwayi hope that name doesn't catch on18:16
vipuli dunno about reffy.. but i'm bad with naming things18:16
hub_capok so we moving on?18:16
SlickNikI only used it cause it's easier to type.18:17
grapex#action Someone comes up with a drawing of a puppy to apply to the reference guest.18:17
grapex#undo18:17
* hub_cap claps18:17
kevinconway#disagree18:17
grapexSorry, I didn't realize that would actually apply if I wasn't holding the meeting. :)18:17
hub_capLOLOLOL18:17
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SlickNikonly meeting organizer can #undo, I think18:17
hub_capim so not undoing it either18:17
espI volunteer datsun180b for a graphic18:17
hub_cap#topic Party and Profit18:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Party and Profit (Meeting topic: trove)"18:17
hub_capso open discussion time18:18
hub_capeveryone rebase your shiz cuz of the new types/versions stuff18:18
robertmyersvote end early?18:18
hub_capand retun your tests18:18
datsun180bhttps://gist.github.com/ed-/e09316c5d33e7562dd2518:18
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hub_capwe will robertmyers if no one else has anything18:18
hub_caplol @ datsun180b18:18
grapexhub_cap: should we rewind the tests first?18:18
robertmyersdatsun180b: nice18:18
vipuldatsun180b: awesome18:18
grapexdatsun180b: wow18:18
grapexIs that a picture of a turkey?18:18
espdatsun180b: nice!18:18
hub_capgrapex: what do u mean?18:19
juiceI get it18:19
grapexhub_cap: Like in first grade, when you trace your hand and it becomes a turkey18:19
vipulalthough that does look like the wrong finger18:19
datsun180bit is deliberately the wrong finger18:19
datsun180brax inside joke18:19
hub_capgrapex: i meant the "rewind the tests'18:19
juiceI was thinking of a dog lifting it's leg to take a leak on a db cylinder18:19
grapexvipul: At Rax it means "you're number one" which for some reason is a bad thing #dumbinsidejokes18:19
hub_caplol @ vipul "the wrong finger"18:19
SlickNikdatsun180b: That's so... beckoning.18:20
grapexjuice: LOL!18:20
grapexThat's perfect18:20
grapexjuice: With a thought bubble that says "I'm securing it for you."18:20
hub_capso if we have nothing else to talk about sans datsun180b wrong middle finger18:20
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robertmyerslets18:20
datsun180bwell one moment, i'll update the image18:20
hub_capwe can take this professional banter to #openstack-trove18:20
cp16netLOl18:20
grapexhub_cap: Best meeting ever.18:20
hub_cap++18:20
grapexhub_cap: Totally lived up to the original agenda.18:21
hub_cappssh18:21
hub_capexceeded18:21
SlickNikI'm good.18:21
hub_capeveryone make sure u update your bugs / blueprints to say "icehouse-1" so i dont have to :)18:21
robertmyershub_cap: I can't change my bugs18:21
hub_capalso, file blueprints u want to see in icehouse.. by tuesday next wk i need to organize them18:21
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hub_caprobertmyers: LOL blame SlickNik18:21
robertmyersI don't see a option to do it18:21
datsun180bupdated. you're very welcome18:22
robertmyersSlickNik: why you hate me?18:22
SlickNikwait: what did I do?18:22
datsun180bon a serious note: conductor better get through those gates18:22
SlickNikrobertmyers: afaik you should be able to change bugs you've filed.18:22
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robertmyersSlickNik: I can just not the milestone18:23
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robertmyersI can change blueprints tho18:23
esmuteHey guys, take a look at the dns designate support patch. It needs some eyes18:23
SlickNikrobertmyers: I believe the openstack way is that only members of the "drivers" team can change the milestone.18:23
robertmyersI am in reddwarf-drivers18:24
SlickNikWe're using trove-drivers now.18:24
grapexesmute: I'll try to look at that soon.18:24
datsun180bi thought all reddwarf-drivers had were reddwarf job retrigger powers18:24
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esmutegrapex: <318:25
SlickNikdatsun180b: correct.18:25
kevinconwaywhat's the difference between reddwarf-drivers and trove-drivers?18:25
robertmyersare we all suppose to be in both?18:25
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SlickNikrobertmyers: I don't think so.18:26
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robertmyersSlickNik: ok, then hub_cap you update my bugs :)18:26
hub_caprobertmyers link them in the room18:26
hub_caplets call this a day?18:26
SlickNikrobertmyers: Send out a list, I can update them for you as well.18:27
SlickNikSounds good.18:27
cp16netsure18:27
vipulwe can go home now?18:27
robertmyerssure18:27
SlickNiklol@vipul18:27
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cp16netyes i give you premission vipul18:27
cp16net:-P18:27
esmutevipul: Are you in India?18:27
grapexvipul: I asked Amy if we could go home after this meeting just like we used to even though it moved.18:27
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vipulesmute: i probably wouldn't have internet if i were18:28
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SlickNikesmute: He's across the table from you…18:28
SlickNiklol18:28
vipulgrapex: amy's nice18:28
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esmutevipul: Take some notes :P18:28
vipullol18:29
demorrishey I am late to the party, still room for more topics?18:29
robertmyers#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/trove/+bugs?search=Search&field.assignee=rmyers18:29
robertmyershehe18:29
kevinconwaydemorris: it's open discussion18:29
hub_capdemorris: sure its open talkings18:29
demorrisk18:29
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demorrisso now that versions / types merged, I wanted to chat about upgrades18:29
demorrisI had submitted a BP long ago on this, back when we were Reddwarf - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Trove/maintenance-windows-and-version-updates18:30
hub_capi like it18:31
demorristhis was inclusive of what I called upgrades and maintenance windows...18:31
redthrux*ahhheemmmmbadidea*18:31
demorrisbut take away maintenance windows for now18:31
demorrisand focus on upgrades18:31
hub_capyes fucus on upgrades18:31
redthruxlol hub_cap18:31
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demorristhe basic idea is expose a call to return if updates are available18:31
hub_caplets split them up into 2 blueprints18:31
redthruxis it minor versions only demorris18:31
ashestakovdemorris: i think now upgrades by backup/restore should works18:31
demorrisand another to apply it18:32
redthrux+1 ashestakov18:32
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datsun180bI don't know about this splitting up business. Let's start a blueprint to document that splitting-up process18:32
demorrisashestakov: okay so maybe we separate out upgrade vs. update18:32
redthrux+1 demorris18:32
kevinconwaydemorris: is there a difference?18:32
demorrisminor version upgrades should not require a backup and restore18:32
redthruxyes - kevinconway18:32
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vipuldon't you need maintenance windows for that?  or are you proposing user initiated18:33
demorrisI am all for y'all jumping in on this and morphing the BP, just getting the conversation going here18:33
kevinconwayso is an update a minor version and upgrade a major?18:33
redthruxkevinconway - some major upgrades can hose a db; if it's security updates, that's safe18:33
ashestakovdemorris: i think need research inplace upgrades18:33
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kevinconwayso mysql 5.1 to 5.5 is a minor update right?18:33
robertmyerskevinconway: no18:33
hub_capnot if 5.1 and 5.5 are diff datastore_types kevinconway18:34
demorrisi think there are cases across different DBMS's where you could accomplish major version upgrades, but there are tons of caveats18:34
demorrisif you use MySQL as the base case, just go look at the MySQL docs and see the list of caveats18:34
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ashestakovhub_cap: why not allow upgrdes with different types, but same manager?18:34
demorrisit IS possible that you could have a databases/tables that don't hit any restrictions on an upgrade18:34
hub_capashestakov: lets focus on building out minor upgrades before we tackle things like that ashestakov18:35
demorrisso I would think that it makes sense to have upgrades be set up to handle it longer term and have that be provider specific on if they want to support it in their deployment18:35
hub_cap++18:35
SlickNik+1 to building out minor (security) upgrades before tackling major/inter-type upgrades.18:35
vipulwhy do you need an API that tells you that an 'update' is available.  You know what version you're on.. and you can always list avaialble versions18:35
redthruxI'd have to agree with you there vipul - now you're asking for trove to be package management aware18:36
demorrisso updates will be disruptive18:36
demorrisbecause you have to restart the DBMS18:36
hub_caphey i had hoped to cut this short.. lets take this convo about design to #openstack-trove. i need to go to the city to return a laptop18:36
ashestakovhub_cap: i think there is same way for upgrade, we can start from just update packages18:37
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demorriswith versions/types we are already managing packages and versions18:37
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esmutehub_cap: Didnt like your celeron chrome book?18:37
demorristhats done18:37
SlickNikokay. let's move this party to #openstack-trove.18:37
hub_capesmute: hehe this is my loaner HK lappy18:37
demorrisokay moving18:37
hub_capSlickNik: ++18:37
vipuldemorris: So maybe a PATCH on instance is what we need to implement18:37
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hub_capGOTO #openstack-trove18:37
vipulPATCH with a new 'datastore'/'version' == update + restart18:37
vipul:p18:38
redthruxmore PATCH goodness18:38
hub_cap#endmeeting18:38
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:38
openstackMeeting ended Wed Nov 20 18:38:08 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:38
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2013/trove.2013-11-20-18.01.html18:38
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2013/trove.2013-11-20-18.01.txt18:38
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trove/2013/trove.2013-11-20-18.01.log.html18:38
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