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| baoli | #startmeeting PCI Passthrough | 13:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 13:00:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is baoli. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: PCI Passthrough)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'pci_passthrough' | 13:00 |
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| baoli | Hi | 13:00 |
| heyongli | hi, all | 13:00 |
| yjiang5 | hi | 13:00 |
| heyongli | how many alarm you set | 13:01 |
| yjiang5 | heyongli: 2 this time :) | 13:01 |
| irenab | hi | 13:01 |
| baoli | yjiang5, thanks a lot for joining | 13:01 |
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| yjiang5 | baoli: :) | 13:02 |
| irenab | baoli: great work on the spec! | 13:02 |
| baoli | I put together a little agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Passthrough#Agenda_on_May_26th.2C_2014 | 13:02 |
| baoli | irenab, heyongli: thanks for reviewing | 13:02 |
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| irenab | great, lets start according to agenda | 13:03 |
| heyongli | do we join NFV instead of pci sriov alone? | 13:03 |
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| irenab | I am not sure we can keep focus there, but must follow what happens in NFV | 13:04 |
| baoli | agreed | 13:04 |
| beagles | I also concur | 13:05 |
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| baoli | I asked Jointhetubaguy to review the spec. Hoepfully he will remove the -2 soon. | 13:05 |
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| irenab | baoli: good, I think -2 may cause other cores to skip review | 13:06 |
| beagles | irenab, that is probably correct | 13:06 |
| * beagles apologizes for being a couple of minutes late and also offers baoli praise on his spec work! | 13:07 | |
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| baoli | Thanks beagles | 13:08 |
| baoli | anything else about the spec? | 13:08 |
| irenab | I passed any concern on review | 13:09 |
| baoli | If you think it's in good shape, please give +1. | 13:09 |
| heyongli | sure, | 13:09 |
| irenab | Already done. I just was suprised you do not need any help :-) | 13:09 |
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| baoli | irenab, I appreciated your offering of help. | 13:10 |
| irenab | baoli: I am just concerned to have it as soon as possible under review | 13:10 |
| baoli | irenab, we also have a team here to help. | 13:11 |
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| irenab | as beagles mentioned there is a lot of changes in the neutronV2 area | 13:11 |
| irenab | baoli: great! | 13:11 |
| irenab | shall we skip to next topic on agenda? | 13:12 |
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| baoli | irenab, do you expect any significant change and difference from the POC, in the neutronv2 area? | 13:12 |
| baoli | irenab, I'd like to hear from you on that. | 13:12 |
| irenab | baoli: Not for our needs, but other mainly refactoring tasks may be pushed by others | 13:13 |
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| baoli | irenab, in that case, I'd like to see them addressed separately. | 13:13 |
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| irenab | baoli: the point I wanted to raise is that you may find youself rebasing the patch, but its part of the process, so will be OK. | 13:14 |
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| baoli | I appreciated everyone's help. So let's get the spec approved, and started reviewing the official patch soon. | 13:15 |
| irenab | +1 | 13:15 |
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| irenab | tempest tests ? | 13:17 |
| baoli | #topic tempest tests | 13:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tempest tests (Meeting topic: PCI Passthrough)" | 13:17 | |
| beagles | before discussing tempest tests are we talking about a single patch or multiple patches? | 13:17 |
| beagles | (too slow) | 13:17 |
| baoli | beagles, we'll submit multiple patches to facilitate the review process. But there might be dependencies between the patches | 13:18 |
| beagles | baoli: cool... the dependency thing is cool as well. been-there-done-that with several reviews lately. | 13:19 |
| baoli | irenab, mlnx has CI tests. Does it support sr-iov networkign already? | 13:20 |
| heyongli | dependencies is ok if every one is keep every thing not broken | 13:20 |
| irenab | baoli: yes | 13:20 |
| baoli | irenab, does it need to be enhanced/modified with the new nova code? | 13:20 |
| irenab | baoli: it covers mellanox sr-iov mech driver, which does not use | 13:21 |
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| irenab | does not use the POC, it has some external package to do resource allocation of VFs | 13:21 |
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| irenab | going forward with HW_VEB mech. driver it will use your code in nova | 13:22 |
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| baoli | irenab, do you expect any change of code for mlnx tempest tests? | 13:23 |
| irenab | for now we run mostly api tests | 13:23 |
| baoli | irenab, so no real hardware based tests? | 13:23 |
| irenab | bali: need to start end 2 end tests with real networking | 13:23 |
| yjiang5 | irenab baoli: IIRC, we have CI test also for PCI, but not cover SR-IOV yet, only generic PCI passthrough integration test. I think possibly we need discuss the NFV testing as a general topic in NFV meeting, which requires gate on hardware? | 13:24 |
| irenab | baoli: yues with real hardware, but not with full end 2 end tests | 13:24 |
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| yjiang5 | irenab: baoli: how is neutron handle the hardware specific integration testing? | 13:25 |
| baoli | Sadasu is not here. But with cisco MD, I believe we'll have tests on real hw as well. | 13:25 |
| irenab | yjiang5: it expects the 3rd party testing system to verify | 13:25 |
| sadasu | baoli: I am right here | 13:25 |
| baoli | sadasu, sorry didn't notice | 13:26 |
| sadasu | comment regarding cisco tempest tests is correct | 13:26 |
| irenab | do you think we need special tests to be added to tempest? | 13:26 |
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| sadasu | irenab: yes...we have to | 13:28 |
| yjiang5 | irenab: sadasu: I think we need special tests in tempest, but will be skipped in gate. | 13:28 |
| sadasu | yes, these tests would have ti be specific to verndor specific CI tests | 13:28 |
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| sadasu | I am not sure if this would be a dependency for baoli's nova commit | 13:29 |
| irenab | sadasu: I am not sure why tests should be specific. I think that setup is vendor specific but tests should be common | 13:29 |
| yjiang5 | sadasu: Do we need vendor specific CI? I thought it will be generic one, but be executed in 3rd party hardware. Nova has no hardware specific driver, . | 13:29 |
| yjiang5 | irenab: +1 | 13:29 |
| sadasu | vendor specific hw setup, but common CI tests...thanks for correcting irenab | 13:30 |
| irenab | so I guess we need tests to cover nova boot for -- nic port_id case with SR-IOV port request, right? | 13:31 |
| baoli | one question through, vendor MD requires specific config, right? | 13:31 |
| baoli | irenab, that's right | 13:31 |
| sadasu | irenab: correct | 13:31 |
| sadasu | but that should still be part of tests for the mech drivers | 13:31 |
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| sadasu | how is this usually done in Nova? | 13:32 |
| baoli | sadasu, so tests are specific to MD drivers. | 13:32 |
| yjiang5 | irenab: one thing come to mind is, the provider_physical_network will be test environment specific ? | 13:32 |
| irenab | yjiang5: correct | 13:32 |
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| baoli | yjiang5: unless we'd like to develop common tests, from which vendor tests are based on, which will setup vendor specific config, etc. | 13:34 |
| sadasu | I think the tests that check the nova boot with --nic port_id would be common | 13:34 |
| sadasu | also the neutron port create tests would be common | 13:34 |
| irenab | sadasu: agree | 13:34 |
| sadasu | I am only not sure if each vendor's CI tests would want to add additional tests that are specific to their use case | 13:35 |
| sadasu | in this particular aspect the tests might differ | 13:35 |
| sadasu | but that completely depends on each vendor | 13:35 |
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| irenab | I do not have much knowledge on tempest tests, need some time to look and see what is there and which tests are missing for SR-IOV case | 13:35 |
| irenab | I think at least basic connectivity cases should be covered by common tests | 13:36 |
| sadasu | there are no tests that are specific to the SR-IOV case at this point | 13:36 |
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| beagles | irenab: true, but the usage pattern (create port, pass to nova) may not be exercised. mlavalle or marun may be able to give you some quick feedback on that | 13:37 |
| irenab | for my understanding, except for using pre created neutron port with vnic_type=direct, there should be common cases that are applicable for SR-IOV based solution | 13:37 |
| yjiang5 | sadasu: in neutron, will vendor-specific test case be added to tempest? | 13:37 |
| sadasu | I don't think we would have to come up with completely new tests, modifying existing tests (pre create sr-iov port) to suit the SR-IOV case would take care of most of the testing | 13:38 |
| sadasu | yjiang5: not to generic tempest tests | 13:38 |
| yjiang5 | sadasu: thanks. | 13:39 |
| irenab | beagles: I'll take a look and check with marun or mlavalle | 13:39 |
| baoli | irenab, sadasu, would you like to take a look at tempest tests for sr-iov networking? | 13:39 |
| beagles | sadasu, some of these tests are based on "works with nova-network, works with neutron"-parity kind of thing so it is quite possible that new tests will be needed - | 13:39 |
| beagles | ... so that's an action item :) | 13:39 |
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| beagles | ooo | 13:39 |
| beagles | also.. btw there is WIP of porting neutron to use oslo.rpc. it should not affect tempest tests (directly anyways) but... | 13:40 |
| yjiang5 | beagles: I think it should be ok, right? | 13:40 |
| irenab | beagles: sounds like you want to take a look on tempest :-) | 13:40 |
| beagles | it may benefit from coordination with the people working on it for creating any additional unit tests etc | 13:40 |
| beagles | irenab, please no :) | 13:41 |
| yjiang5 | irenab: I will have a look on tempest | 13:41 |
| beagles | I will definitely help though.. just that the third party CI stuff is completely foreign to me... | 13:41 |
| baoli | we need to finalize the tempest tests soon. | 13:41 |
| sadasu | baoli: I am already looking into the tempest tests for the cisco CI case for my ML2 driver | 13:41 |
| irenab | yjiang5: thanks! | 13:41 |
| baoli | sadasu, great and thanks! | 13:41 |
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| baoli | yjiang5, thanks. | 13:42 |
| irenab | sadasu: anythink you would like to share for next meeting, to consider to put it upstream? | 13:42 |
| baoli | So next meeting, we may have a concrete plan for tempest tests? | 13:42 |
| sadasu | Internally, I am doing a lot of end-to-end testing with baoli's patched | 13:42 |
| beagles | in all seriousness.. I will help with tempest, but I don't know if I am the best one to drive it. Quick review and independent testing of patches, etc. | 13:43 |
| sadasu | but I doubt I wil have all that translated into tempest tests in juno-1 or even juno-2 | 13:43 |
| sadasu | currently,the priority it for me to get my ml2 driver into Juno | 13:43 |
| heyongli | sadasu, the test case you mentioned for sriov will be upstream? | 13:44 |
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| yjiang5 | beagles: I think we should first define policy for haredware basesed testing, and then defint the list of integration testing should be added. | 13:44 |
| irenab | sadsu: I guess it worth to discuss in the team here to see if can push together, seems that it may be valuable for all | 13:44 |
| beagles | yjiang5, that makes sense | 13:44 |
| sadasu | tempest tests with more sophisticated testing will be added incrementally, given adding these tests also has its own review process | 13:44 |
| yjiang5 | sadasu: agree, once we have the list/scenerio should be covered, then we can implement step by step. | 13:44 |
| baoli | if it's not a prerequisite to have tempest tests ready in order to commit the code, we can strive to make them for juno-3 or later | 13:44 |
| yjiang5 | baoli: +1 | 13:45 |
| sadasu | baoli: +1 that is what I am shooting for | 13:45 |
| baoli | cool. | 13:45 |
| beagles | baoli, +1 agreed... important to have, but landing a little later is cool | 13:45 |
| irenab | baoli: makes sence, just need to make sure that nova side does not require any tempest by itself | 13:45 |
| sadasu | I don't want to add more hurdles to any of these commit...we have enough already | 13:46 |
| beagles | irenab, yeah we should unit test that to death... | 13:46 |
| baoli | I think that we just need to keep that in mind, and keep looking at it. | 13:46 |
| irenab | baoli: agree | 13:46 |
| sadasu | yes, we have the unit tests and I have end-to end integration tests | 13:46 |
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| sadasu | its just not part of upstream tempest | 13:46 |
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| baoli | Shall we continue to the next topic? | 13:47 |
| beagles | we should also do a quick check of the existing tempest tests to see if there are any deficiencies in coverage that might be quickly mitigated to catch any regressions we might inadvertantly add | 13:47 |
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| beagles | translation: try and avoid breaking stuff :) | 13:47 |
| baoli | beagles, sure | 13:47 |
| irenab | baoli: yes, please | 13:47 |
| sadasu | yes, again that can be done in our own testbeds...not pushed upstream right away | 13:47 |
| baoli | #topic bugs | 13:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: PCI Passthrough)" | 13:48 | |
| baoli | yjiang5 and heyongli, can you guys take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82206/Init | 13:48 |
| heyongli | first bug link if broken , i add myself to second one and review soon | 13:48 |
| baoli | Sorry, I will fix that | 13:48 |
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| heyongli | this one Abandoned | 13:50 |
| heyongli | please recover | 13:50 |
| baoli | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82206/ | 13:50 |
| baoli | Please take a look at the comments regarding the node id | 13:50 |
| heyongli | sure | 13:50 |
| baoli | Please let me know what you guys think about the node_id versus host name in the PCI device table. | 13:51 |
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| baoli | If needed, we need to open a new bug, or address that in 82206 | 13:52 |
| irenab | we have less than 10 mins left, I am afraid we wont cover next topics today | 13:52 |
| heyongli | sure, baoli | 13:52 |
| baoli | ok, to be quick, I will update the next bug soon. | 13:52 |
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| irenab | I am not sure we should right now enter into new advantures, lest try to land someting first | 13:53 |
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| irenab | there are few issues that may be worth to resolve as soos as possible, like vnic_type renaming if really needed | 13:54 |
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| baoli | irenab, we should have them started so that they have a chance to get in in the next release. There are a lot of works | 13:54 |
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| baoli | given the experience with the current work | 13:54 |
| irenab | let's give a priority to issues that may have an impact on current phase | 13:55 |
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| baoli | irenab, agree. The vnic-type renaming should have high priority, I think. | 13:56 |
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| baoli | For others, depending on when users would need them | 13:57 |
| irenab | baoli: do we have to change names? or once we get into nova api changes | 13:57 |
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| yjiang5 | what's vnit-type renaming? | 13:58 |
| irenab | currently vnic_types are normal, direct and macvtap | 13:58 |
| irenab | maybe worth to change macvtap to indirect | 13:58 |
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| irenab | I am not sure its a must, at least networking guys were OK with naming | 13:59 |
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| baoli | irenab, yea. So I don't think it has to. We can wait until somebody really cries for the change. | 13:59 |
| yjiang5 | irenab: thanks for clarification | 14:00 |
| baoli | ok, times is up. Let's meet next week. | 14:00 |
| baoli | Thanks everyone | 14:00 |
| beagles | yjiang5, vnit-type renaming - chuckle - an unintentional pun? because this is a "nit" about naming :) | 14:00 |
| irenab | Updating, I will skip next week meeting | 14:00 |
| beagles | cheers! | 14:00 |
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| heyongli | bye! | 14:00 |
| irenab | thanks guys | 14:00 |
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| beagles | irenab, on holiday? have a good trip! | 14:00 |
| baoli | irenab, have a good trip to Paris! | 14:00 |
| baoli | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 14:00:53 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-05-27-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| irenab | thanks! Will do:-) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-05-27-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-05-27-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
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| kgriffs | o/ | 15:02 |
| Obulpathi | o/ | 15:02 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:02 |
| kgriffs | #startmeeting marconi | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 15:02:59 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kgriffs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:03 | |
| sriram | \o o/ | 15:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'marconi' | 15:03 |
| kgriffs | #topic roll call | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:03 | |
| kgriffs | o/ | 15:03 |
| sriram | o/ | 15:03 |
| mpanetta | o/ | 15:03 |
| Obulpathi | o/ | 15:03 |
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| kgriffs | It seems we are missing Mr. Percoco | 15:04 |
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| malini | o/ | 15:04 |
| malini | Mr. Percoco said he cant make it today | 15:04 |
| malini | He has a python meetup to go to | 15:04 |
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| kgriffs | oic | 15:05 |
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| kgriffs | #topic review actions from last time | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review actions from last time (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:05 | |
| kgriffs | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi_team_meeting/2014/marconi_team_meeting.2014-05-20-15.01.html | 15:05 |
| kgriffs | 1. kgriffs to address over vs. under cloud in FAQ, mention on home page | 15:06 |
| kgriffs | I added a section to the FAQ about this - feel free to improve upon my first attempt at addressing the question | 15:06 |
| kgriffs | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions_(Marconi) | 15:07 |
| kgriffs | I still need to add a note about it to the home page | 15:07 |
| kgriffs | I'll do that right after this meeting | 15:07 |
| kgriffs | 2. kgriffs to document roadmap and send to ML for feedback | 15:07 |
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| kgriffs | done | 15:08 |
| kgriffs | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Roadmap_(Marconi) | 15:08 |
| kgriffs | we obviously have tons to do, but we also have lots of contributors now, so I am optimistic. :D | 15:08 |
| kgriffs | any questions/comments/concerns/rude remarks about the roadmpa? | 15:09 |
| malini | I am good | 15:09 |
| malini | I am positive abt completing the Tempest tests, but not so much abt getting reviews for it | 15:10 |
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| kgriffs | sounds like they need more core reviewers? | 15:11 |
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| kgriffs | or more reviewers that are active? | 15:11 |
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| malini | they have ton of patches coming in everday :( | 15:11 |
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| kgriffs | i bet... hmmm. Well, maybe one of us on the team can work towards becoming a core reviewer to help lighten their load so other reviewers have more time for incubated projects. :) | 15:13 |
| kgriffs | malini: maybe we can bring this up with devenanda and jarrett | 15:14 |
| malini | sure - tht'll be great! | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | see if between the three projects we can come up with 1-2 folks | 15:14 |
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| kgriffs | I'll send an email to the ML | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | #action kgriffs to reach out to ironic, barbican wrt tempest patch backlog | 15:15 |
| kgriffs | 3. megan_w to check trademarks for our shortlist of names | 15:16 |
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| kgriffs | megan_w|afk: ^^^ | 15:17 |
| kgriffs | lots of people missing today. :( | 15:17 |
| kgriffs | #action megan_w to check trademarks for our shortlist of names | 15:17 |
| Obulpathi | yes :( | 15:17 |
| kgriffs | #action flaper87 to summarize 0.9 vs. 1.0 discussion in the context of openstack, add to AMQP driver bp, send to ML | 15:18 |
| sriram_p | ls | 15:18 |
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| kgriffs | #action kgriffs, megan_w to get some feedback on AMQP 1.0 from Rackspace ops | 15:18 |
| kgriffs | #topic Remove "Get a Specific Message" in v1.1? | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Remove "Get a Specific Message" in v1.1? (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:19 | |
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| kgriffs | So, this keeps coming up as a point of confusion | 15:19 |
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| kgriffs | it adds to the "this API is strange for a message bus" factor | 15:20 |
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| kgriffs | also, it is perceived as a blocker for implementing certain kinds of backends | 15:20 |
| kgriffs | finally, IMO it doesn't add any value to the API; I haven't been able to think of a reason anyone would need to get a message by ID, but I could be totally wrong - please tell me if you have a use case in mind | 15:21 |
| malini | kgriffs: +1 | 15:21 |
| malini | if somebody needs to get a specific message by id, they could do it waith the multiple messages API call too | 15:22 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: what do you think? | 15:22 |
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| Obulpathi | kgriffs: I don't see a use case for get the message by id | 15:22 |
| sriram | yes, in the case of distributive task queues and such it shouldnt matter. | 15:22 |
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| kgriffs | malini: good point. should we get rid of this one as well? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/specs/api/v1.1#Get_a_Set_of_Messages_by_ID | 15:23 |
| Obulpathi | +1 | 15:23 |
| sriram | does SQS have support for it by any chance? | 15:23 |
| * sriram digs into it | 15:23 | |
| kgriffs | sriram: I don't believe so, but please double-check | 15:24 |
| sriram | on it | 15:24 |
| prashanthr_ | then will the delete single message by id also be deprecated ? | 15:24 |
| Obulpathi | no .. | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | prashanthr_: yes | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | oops | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | no | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | sorry, misread | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | deletes remain | 15:24 |
| prashanthr_ | okay. | 15:25 |
| Obulpathi | client shuld be able to delete the message once it works on it .. so we need that | 15:25 |
| malini | if we dont support get by message id, what is the point of ever returning content-location/ message ids? | 15:25 |
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| kgriffs | but... hmmm, that gets me to thinking about something, but I guess that would be a 2.0 type change | 15:25 |
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| kgriffs | malini: for the deletes? | 15:25 |
| vkmc | I don't see the need of getting a message by ID either... iirc consumers want first n messages in the queue and that's all | 15:25 |
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| kgriffs | for 2.0 we could do something a little more drastic | 15:26 |
| Obulpathi | +1 | 15:26 |
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| kgriffs | like, we assign a "delete" id when you claim messages, and you use that to delete things. then delete only makes sense within the context of claiming messages | 15:26 |
| kgriffs | iirc, that's basically how SQS works | 15:27 |
| sriram | yes | 15:27 |
| malini | kgriffs: I like tht | 15:27 |
| kgriffs | although, if you take away the feed endpoints, that is basically what we have today in any case | 15:27 |
| kgriffs | I'll make a note of this idea in the 2.0 notes so we can discuss later | 15:27 |
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| Obulpathi | can we delete the message using the claim id itself? | 15:28 |
| kgriffs | anyway, sounds like we are in agreement that we should remove getting one or more messages by id in v1.1 | 15:28 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: you mean, delete the claim deletes all the associated messages? | 15:28 |
| sriram | I cant find evidence of SQS supporting getting a message by id either. | 15:28 |
| sriram | kgriffs: +1, we can remove it. | 15:29 |
| Obulpathi | kgriffs: yes | 15:29 |
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| malini | Obulpathi: as is, claimed messages are deleted with message id + claim id | 15:29 |
| Obulpathi | ok :) | 15:29 |
| Obulpathi | malini: :) | 15:29 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: possibly, but we will need to decide if we want to encourage deleting multiple messages at a time, or if that is an anti-pattern; food for thought | 15:29 |
| kgriffs | I'll note that idea on the 2.0 spec as well | 15:30 |
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| Obulpathi | oh got it .. we can claim multiple message in a single clain .. | 15:30 |
| Obulpathi | *claim | 15:30 |
| Obulpathi | so we need ability to delete messages individually | 15:30 |
| kgriffs | #agreed remove support for GET single, multiple messages by ID in API v1.1 | 15:30 |
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| sriram | yes multiple messages can have the same claim id. | 15:31 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: yes, probably, but let's keep thinking about it | 15:31 |
| Obulpathi | ok | 15:31 |
| sriram | +1 | 15:31 |
| kgriffs | moving on... | 15:31 |
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| kgriffs | #action kgriffs to create the bp and update the v1.1 spec for removing support of GET by ID | 15:31 |
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| kgriffs | I'm going to skip some of these agenda items until next time, since I really need flaper87|afk to be here | 15:32 |
| malini | ok.. | 15:32 |
| kgriffs | that brings us to... | 15:32 |
| kgriffs | #action Adding a base test class for v1.1 | 15:32 |
| kgriffs | sriram: ^^^ | 15:32 |
| sriram | yes | 15:33 |
| kgriffs | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/decoupling-unit-tests | 15:33 |
| sriram | we need this to be done ASAP. | 15:33 |
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| malini | abettadapur: does your v1.1 functional tests patch add a new base class for 1.1 ? | 15:33 |
| kgriffs | ok. I think some of the decoupling has already happened, or maybe I am thinking of some work i did in an abandoned patch. :p | 15:34 |
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| abettadapur | it does not | 15:34 |
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| sriram | the tests are for both v1 and v1.1 right now, we dont want to be doing ifs to check for api version. | 15:34 |
| abettadapur | (though it shouldn't need to, because functional uses an existing server no?) | 15:34 |
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| kgriffs | I'm OK with this work, but I would like to find a way to share tests for functionality that is identical between 1.0 and 1.1 | 15:35 |
| malini | I think other projects do this by adding new base classes | 15:35 |
| sriram | especially for changes that are breaking v1, we need to have the unit tests in there for new features, to get a jenkins +1 :P | 15:35 |
| kgriffs | I suppose we could have a "v1.x" base class with shared tests | 15:35 |
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| kgriffs | then "v1.0" and "v1.1" inherit from that? | 15:36 |
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| sriram | hmm, so the v1.x will have the superset of all features? | 15:36 |
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| Obulpathi | or .. is there a way we can read the return code fmo a config file? | 15:36 |
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| Obulpathi | *form a config file .. depending on the version | 15:37 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: the pattern we have been using for minor differences is to inherit from a base class with the test, then set a class variable for the return code or something | 15:37 |
| Obulpathi | ok ... cool | 15:37 |
| kgriffs | alternatively, the base class can have a "protected" helper | 15:37 |
| kgriffs | like def _do_this_test | 15:38 |
| malini | Obulpathi: it wont be just the return codes tht differ..we will have deprecated/new APIs etc. | 15:38 |
| sriram | malini: +1 | 15:38 |
| kgriffs | and then you have in the child, do_this_test that calls _do_this_Test, passing in the expected return code | 15:38 |
| Obulpathi | malini: ok | 15:38 |
| malini | We need to do some research into how other projects did this | 15:38 |
| malini | This is not a new problem :) | 15:38 |
| Obulpathi | +1 | 15:38 |
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| kgriffs | sure. Flavio will have some ideas based on his work on other projects | 15:38 |
| sriram | yes, we need to get this figured out soon. for other patches to land. | 15:38 |
| kgriffs | fwiw, the class variable pattern was originally his idea, so may have come from another proj | 15:39 |
| kgriffs | ok | 15:39 |
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| kgriffs | malini: I made you "approver" for the design on the bp | 15:39 |
| malini | cool! | 15:39 |
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| kgriffs | who would like to do the implementation? | 15:40 |
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| sriram | I can do it, once I'm done with marconi-bench | 15:40 |
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| malini | we need this by J-1 , rt? | 15:40 |
| kgriffs | malini: just set definition to "approved" when we figure out a direction | 15:40 |
| kgriffs | malini: yes | 15:40 |
| sriram | malini: yes | 15:40 |
| kgriffs | ok, I'll assign to you sriram | 15:40 |
| kgriffs | and target for j-1 | 15:40 |
| sriram | cool, lots of work to do :D | 15:41 |
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| kgriffs | #topic Updates on blueprints | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Updates on blueprints (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:42 | |
| kgriffs | #link https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/juno-1 | 15:42 |
| kgriffs | Malini: API V1.1 - Pop operation | 15:42 |
| malini | kgriffs: I got some comments from flaper87|afk - working on tht now | 15:43 |
| malini | will have this by J-1 | 15:43 |
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| kgriffs | sriram: API v1.1 - Lazily Create Queues | 15:44 |
| sriram | kgriffs: got some comments from flaper87|afk as well. | 15:44 |
| sriram | will address them, and should be by j-1 | 15:44 |
| sriram | will also need the unit tests here after we have a separate base class there. | 15:45 |
| Obulpathi | anyone assigned to work on health endpoint? | 15:45 |
| sriram | that might be a blocker for now, or do we want to do something else there. | 15:45 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: flwang was working on that, but I haven't heard from him for a couple weeks... | 15:45 |
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| Obulpathi | kgriffs: cool | 15:46 |
| malini | he might be in the middle of his move | 15:46 |
| Obulpathi | any open issues I can take on? | 15:46 |
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| kgriffs | is anyone working on "API v1.1 header changes." | 15:47 |
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| malini | I think I saw abettadapur assigned to it somewhere? | 15:47 |
| Obulpathi | yes, I think he is working on that | 15:48 |
| kgriffs | ah, ok. I need to assign the bp to him then | 15:48 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: how about this one? | 15:48 |
| kgriffs | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/api-version-discovery | 15:48 |
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| Obulpathi | sure | 15:49 |
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| kgriffs | we would want to check around with some other projects to see if there is a de-facto standard way to do this. | 15:49 |
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| kgriffs | Obulpathi: assigned you | 15:50 |
| abettadapur | i have the header changes completed | 15:50 |
| abettadapur | i just need the unit tests to be compliant | 15:50 |
| Obulpathi | kgriffs: :) | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | abettadapur: rock on | 15:50 |
| abettadapur | i can help sriram if he would like | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: I think you can also take "API v1.1 Request Document Changes" | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | and maybe also "API v1.1 Response Document Changes" | 15:50 |
| sriram | awesome, we can talk about that. | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | but we should check with Fei to see if he has started those or not | 15:51 |
| Obulpathi | ok ... | 15:51 |
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| Obulpathi | abettadapur: Good work :) | 15:51 |
| kgriffs | Obulpathi: watch for flwang in IRC and catch him if you can. :) | 15:51 |
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| Obulpathi | kgriffs: ok | 15:51 |
| kgriffs | abettadapur: is there a patch submitted already? | 15:51 |
| kgriffs | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/api-v1.1-header-changes | 15:52 |
| abettadapur | no there isn't | 15:52 |
| abettadapur | it would be rejected by jenkins, so i havent done that | 15:52 |
| kgriffs | ok, I was just making sure since I didn't see a reference on the whiteboard | 15:52 |
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| kgriffs | abettadapur: remind me what your launchpad ID is? | 15:52 |
| abettadapur | abettadapur i think | 15:53 |
| abettadapur | no | 15:53 |
| abettadapur | alexbettadapur | 15:53 |
| kgriffs | abettadapur: ok, you are now assigned to the bp | 15:53 |
| abettadapur | ok | 15:53 |
| kgriffs | it's all official now | 15:53 |
| kgriffs | :) | 15:53 |
| Obulpathi | :) | 15:53 |
| kgriffs | vkmc: are you going to be working on this? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/storage-amqp | 15:54 |
| vkmc | kgriffs, I'm yeah | 15:54 |
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| vkmc | kgriffs, I wanted to hear your opinion about what AMQP version to support | 15:55 |
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| vkmc | yours and everyone else in Marconi of course | 15:55 |
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| kgriffs | vkmc: btw, I assigned the bp to you, and also set you as "drafter". That means it's up to you to come up with a design and get flaper87's blessing. :) | 15:56 |
| kgriffs | vkmc: who is your mentor? | 15:56 |
| vkmc | kgriffs, thanks for that | 15:56 |
| vkmc | kgriffs, alcabrera and flaper87 :) | 15:56 |
| kgriffs | ok | 15:56 |
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| kgriffs | re 0.9 vs. 1.0 | 15:57 |
| kgriffs | Flavio is discussing the state of 1.0 in RabbitMQ | 15:57 |
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| vkmc | I see, great | 15:58 |
| kgriffs | I think if we can get the rabbit team to commit to doing a little more work on their 1.0 plugin, 1.0 is the way to go | 15:58 |
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| kgriffs | vkmc: so, I'd sync up with flaper87|afk on that | 15:59 |
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| vkmc | cool! | 15:59 |
| vkmc | just one thing I'm doubtful about... | 15:59 |
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| vkmc | I saw that oslo.messaging is adding support for AMQP 1.0 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo.messaging/+spec/amqp10-driver-implementation too | 16:00 |
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| vkmc | isn't Oslo a common lib which we might use? | 16:00 |
| dims | vkmc, it's not ready yet | 16:01 |
| adrian_otto | kgriffs: all done? | 16:01 |
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| kgriffs | vkmc: we won't use it as a backend per se, but we might use it to RPC to other services | 16:01 |
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| kgriffs | adrian_otto: yep | 16:01 |
| adrian_otto | tx | 16:01 |
| thomasem | o/ | 16:01 |
| kgriffs | ok folks, let's wrap this up | 16:01 |
| kgriffs | thanks everyone! | 16:01 |
| kgriffs | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| vkmc | thanks! :) | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| Obulpathi | thank you :) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 16:01:51 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2014/marconi.2014-05-27-15.02.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2014/marconi.2014-05-27-15.02.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2014/marconi.2014-05-27-15.02.log.html | 16:01 |
| adrian_otto | #startmeeting containers | 16:02 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 16:02:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is adrian_otto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:02 | |
| adrian_otto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers#Agenda_for_2014-05-27_1600_UTC Our Agenda | 16:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'containers' | 16:02 |
| zul | hi | 16:02 |
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| thomasem | o/ hey hey | 16:02 |
| zul | sorry i missed the last meting | 16:02 |
| apmelton | o/ | 16:02 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Roll Call | 16:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:02 | |
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| paulczar | here! | 16:02 |
| adrian_otto | Adrian Otto | 16:02 |
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| julienvey | Julien Vey | 16:02 |
| muralia | murali allada | 16:02 |
| zul | ChuckShort | 16:02 |
| tomblank1 | tom blankenship | 16:02 |
| paulmo | Paul Montgomery | 16:02 |
| thomasem | Thomas Maddox | 16:02 |
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| s1rp | Rick Harris | 16:02 |
| stannie | Pierre Padrixe | 16:02 |
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| sriram_p | Sriram Padmanabhan | 16:03 |
| apmelton | Andrew Melton | 16:03 |
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| adrian_otto | hello everyone | 16:03 |
| danpb | Daniel Berrange | 16:04 |
| serue | Serge Hallyn | 16:04 |
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| adrian_otto | I will pause for just one more moment for additional attendees. You are all welcome to chime in at any time to be recorded in the roll if we missed you in this section | 16:04 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Announcements | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:05 | |
| adrian_otto | welcome everyone to our second meeting. We anticipate different participants each week, as we have an alternating meeting schedule | 16:05 |
| adrian_otto | for future reference the upcoming meeting schedule is published here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers | 16:05 |
| adrian_otto | for those of you who did not attend the first meeting: | 16:06 |
| adrian_otto | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-05-20-22.00.html Minutes/Log from first meeting | 16:06 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Review Action Items | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:06 | |
| adrian_otto | We did not have any action items last week, so skipping this | 16:06 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Introductions (For attendees not present on 2014-05-20) | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introductions (For attendees not present on 2014-05-20) (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:06 | |
| adrian_otto | This is for voluntary introduction from new attendees. Welcome! Describe your interest in containers, and this team. What is your role in hone OpenStack community, and what should we remember about you? | 16:06 |
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| adrian_otto | if you prefer, you are welcome to record your interests in the etherpad: | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | #Link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/containers Containers Etherpad | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/containers Containers Etherpad | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | ok | 16:07 |
| adrian_otto | anyone feel like an introduction? | 16:07 |
| thomasem | Sure | 16:07 |
| thomasem | Thomas Maddox, working at Rackspace. My interest at the moment is in improving container support for LibvirtLXC in Nova, but also container support overall. | 16:08 |
| zul | Chuck SHort, working at Canonical, My interest is making containers a first class hypervisor in openstack, wrote the initial libvirt-lxc, and working on a out of tree native lxc driver | 16:09 |
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| julienvey | I'm Julien Vey, working at Numergy on Solum. Interested to have containers support in OpenStack first for Solum use-cases and after to manage applications with needs of fast spawn and bare-metal performance (no hypervisor overhead), Isolation for micro-services without the cost of having to run a vm | 16:10 |
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| danpb | Daniel Berrange, Red Hat. libvirt upstream tech lead / architect. My interested in ensuring that Nova is able to provide 1st class support for both container & VM based virt, and to ensure Libvirt LXC is making the most of this | 16:11 |
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| paulmo | Paul Montgomery, Rackspace, also working on project Solum. Along with Nova/container drivers, I'm particularly interested in securing containers (preventing backouts and such). | 16:11 |
| paulmo | breakouts | 16:11 |
| adrian_otto | Welcome Thomas, Chuck, Daniel, Julien, and Paul. I'm Adrian Otto, serving as your chair/coordinator/moderator. I am a Principal Architect at Rackspace, and PTL for Solum. I want container functionality, like what we get form nova-docker today, plus more to support CI/CD use cases for openstack end users | 16:12 |
| adrian_otto | does anyone else wish to make an introduction? | 16:12 |
| dguryanov|2 | Dmitry Guryanov, Parallels, work on Parallels Cloud Server, OpenVZ | 16:12 |
| jejb | James Bottomley, Parallels; interested mostly in Containers API unification and Kernel issues | 16:13 |
| stannie | Pierre Padrixe, Numergy, also from Solum team. Interested mostly in Docker Container in Openstack | 16:13 |
| adrian_otto | Welcome Pierre, James and Dmitry! | 16:13 |
| adrian_otto | anyone else is welcome to chime in as we proceed. | 16:14 |
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| adrian_otto | so it seems that we all have a lot of shared interests. We began last week with identifying those interests, and did a thought exercise to tease some of the ideas out. | 16:14 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Containers in OpenStack -- Stakeholder Interests | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Containers in OpenStack -- Stakeholder Interests (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:15 | |
| adrian_otto | so for those of you who are attending for the first time this week, please record your input here: | 16:15 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/containers Containers Etherpad | 16:15 |
| adrian_otto | we will take a moment to review that now, as there is new content to consider | 16:15 |
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| adrian_otto | and discuss | 16:15 |
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| adrian_otto | now, there are a lot of topics in there | 16:16 |
| adrian_otto | my goal is not to debate each one today, but instead to give us all a high level idea of where we are all coming from, and focus us i the areas where we have the strongest sense of shared insterest | 16:16 |
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| adrian_otto | danpb: you may want to skim to the bottom to give the proposed use cases some consideration for our next agenda item | 16:17 |
| danpb | adrian_otto: yes, i saw those, its a nice list | 16:18 |
| adrian_otto | ok, great, feel free to hack that up or build on it | 16:18 |
| thomasem | I'll continue to flesh out my section in the stakeholder section as I organize my thoughts better. :) | 16:19 |
| adrian_otto | thomasem: good. There's no rush. | 16:19 |
| thomasem | cool | 16:20 |
| dguryanov|2 | We're interested in containers, which are suitable for hosters, i.e. environment inside container is hostile. It's not possible on vanilla kernels, only on OpenVZ ones. | 16:20 |
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| adrian_otto | dguryanov|2: It would be great for you to reach out to paulmo, as you both have an interest in making container environments very secure. We all want that, I expect, but I'd like to have those who take a special interest in the security aspects to become better acquainted. | 16:22 |
| * paulmo nods. Containers + a Mandatory Access Control mechanism such as SELinux may hold some possibilities | 16:22 | |
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| adrian_otto | Once you all have had a chance to read through the etherpad, and would like to begin group discussion on next steps, please chime in here | 16:23 |
| zul | so i was wondering if there is an appetite for a containers framework ala ironic, there was some discussion about this at ODS | 16:23 |
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| jejb | security contexts really don't help with hostile root. The eventual solution will be USER_NS | 16:24 |
| thomasem | We're also pretty interested in that as well. Already have some basic SELinux stuff up around containers. We have a few folks that aren't here today focused on container security on our team. I'll communicate to them that there is a good opportunity to collaboration here. | 16:24 |
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| thomasem | s/to/for/ | 16:24 |
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| paulmo | jejb: There are many layers to this security onion for sure. :) thomasem: Great! | 16:24 |
| danpb | yeah, different people have different standards for what they'd consider "Secure" to mean | 16:25 |
| thomasem | definitely | 16:25 |
| danpb | some people think that upstream kernels with userns are "secure" containers | 16:25 |
| paulczar | has anyone looked at and have comments to make on the selinux support added to docker 0.11 ? | 16:25 |
| jejb | danpb, pretty much, they are ... we think user_ns is more secure than the original OpenVZ root capability | 16:26 |
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| adrian_otto | I added a Top Theems section to the etherpad at the top | 16:26 |
| adrian_otto | if I am missing any of the ones where we have strong shared interest, please feel free to add to that list | 16:27 |
| danpb | the flip-side is that other people will say that allowing the host kernel to mount any untrusted filesystems is insecure no matter what you might do (given that we've seen CVEs in filesystem drivers like ext3/ext4 before) | 16:27 |
| serue | very mudh so yes (atm) | 16:27 |
| serue | and, currently, not allowed :) | 16:27 |
| jejb | The solution to mount is being discussed on the lxc mailing list, but I agree it's a problem | 16:27 |
| serue | it seems clear to me that a fusefs with process running as container's root uid on the host is the answer | 16:28 |
| jejb | This is one of the "best practise" areas where all containers do different things | 16:28 |
| danpb | yep, and it's probably not for OpenStack to care about the particular underlying impl / security architecture | 16:29 |
| jejb | sorry, have to run to next next meeting | 16:29 |
| adrian_otto | jejb: thanks for attending | 16:29 |
| danpb | but rather to just follow whatever security best practices the specific container technology recommends | 16:29 |
| adrian_otto | danpb: +1 | 16:30 |
| adrian_otto | ok, would anyone like more time for reviewing the Etherpad? | 16:30 |
| danpb | adrian_otto: i think you should continue, given we're already 1/2 way through our time | 16:30 |
| adrian_otto | I'd like to suggest some action items around the Top Themes | 16:30 |
| adrian_otto | my thought there is to make those into a section on the Team Wiki | 16:31 |
| adrian_otto | and plan our next agenda(s) based on those | 16:31 |
| zul | thats fine with me | 16:31 |
| julienvey | looks good | 16:32 |
| adrian_otto | I'm happy to start an ML thread as well tagged with [Containers][Nova] that solicits input too | 16:32 |
| zul | i think we should start the discussion :) | 16:32 |
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| zul | adrian_otto: please | 16:32 |
| adrian_otto | #action adrain_otto to begin an ML thread for input on our Top Themes, and formation of a Wiki page to clearly document them for future reference | 16:32 |
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| funzo | hi, sorry I'm late o/ | 16:32 |
| adrian_otto | typo on my name | 16:32 |
| adrian_otto | irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#action adrian_otto to begin an ML thread for input on our Top Themes, and formation of a Wiki page to clearly document them for future reference | 16:33 |
| danpb | not entirely sure that theme #4 is really an item on its own is it ? | 16:33 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, close enough | 16:33 |
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| danpb | i mean "can use a variety of container technology" is really just inherent in anything openstack does | 16:33 |
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| adrian_otto | danpb: good point, it's realyl a sub point on the #1 theme | 16:33 |
| danpb | everything is always pluggable with different impls in openstack world | 16:34 |
| adrian_otto | danpb: +1 | 16:34 |
| julienvey | it should drive our decisions, but is not a theme on its own | 16:34 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, I axed that one | 16:35 |
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| adrian_otto | let's advance to our next topic | 16:35 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Containers Use Cases | 16:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Containers Use Cases (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:35 | |
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| adrian_otto | Examine/enumerate use cases / scenarios for containers which do not require cinder storage, to demonstrate that cinder should be considered optional for Nova driver inclusion (Daniel Berrange / danpb) | 16:35 |
| danpb | so i think the examples people have listed there are a pretty decent representative set | 16:36 |
| adrian_otto | I copied the drafts of the use cases to discuss into the bottom of the same etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/containers | 16:36 |
| danpb | its pretty clear from them that containers are plenty useful without cinder | 16:36 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, thanks danpb. Are there any alternate points of view to consider on this subject? | 16:37 |
| julienvey | the end goal is to have some sort of persistent storage, and if we don't use cinder, we should be sure to have a way to do this | 16:37 |
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| danpb | ultimately what we're showing here is that there's any number of ways to get persistent storage via the network, instead of direct attached storage | 16:37 |
| adrian_otto | julienvey: Eric Windisich suggested a service like Manila may be the long term answer to that concern. | 16:37 |
| julienvey | yes, Manila could be a good option | 16:38 |
| adrian_otto | Trove is another | 16:38 |
| dguryanov|2 | Excuse me, I've missed previous meeting, what is the problem with attaching cinder volumes to containers? | 16:38 |
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| danpb | dguryanov|2: there's no real fundamental problem IMHO | 16:39 |
| adrian_otto | dguryanov|2: good question, the practice can require an insecure instance of a container where the mount functions are available, and allow a breakout. | 16:39 |
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| adrian_otto | at least that was Eric's concern about Docker containers | 16:39 |
| danpb | dguryanov|2: it was really just that Docker doesn't support exposing block devs to its containers | 16:39 |
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| julienvey | yes, mostly a Docker problem | 16:39 |
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| adrian_otto | apparently there is at least oen way to mitigate that that the nova-docker team has been working on | 16:40 |
| danpb | and some Nova cores suggested that should be a blocker that prevents acceptance of docker | 16:40 |
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| danpb | so this was just an attempt to demonstrate that lack of cinder support should not be a blocker for docker acceptance | 16:40 |
| adrian_otto | ok, so nobody chimed in with an alternating point of view, so can I conclude we have unanimous consent on this topic? | 16:40 |
| danpb | for libvirt LXC at least, we *can* expose arbitrary host block devs to containers, and i guess openvz probably can too | 16:41 |
| dguryanov|2 | You can't allow both direct access to a block device and mount. But either mount or read/write has no big security problems. | 16:42 |
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| adrian_otto | danpb: yes, my understanding is it can be done, as long as it's done at container creation time. I am uncertain if it can be done at an arbitrary future point in time without a clever approach. | 16:42 |
| thomasem | Yeah, you can mount from the host | 16:42 |
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| adrian_otto | like using a bind mount, and placing device files on that as needed | 16:42 |
| thomasem | That's what we already do with the container image anyway | 16:42 |
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| thomasem | yeah | 16:42 |
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| dguryanov|2 | Bind mounts is another question, I was talking about providing access rights to a real block device. | 16:43 |
| dguryanov|2 | I think nova API should be extended for bindmounts :) | 16:43 |
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| dguryanov|2 | And instead of providing block device name, you should provide mount point. | 16:43 |
| adrian_otto | ok, I am going to open us up for Open Discussion | 16:44 |
| danpb | dguryanov|2: yep, its quite possible we should do that | 16:44 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Open Discussion | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: containers)" | 16:44 | |
| danpb | dguryanov|2: that could be useful with full machine virt too | 16:44 |
| danpb | dguryanov|2: because in combination with a guest agent, it'd let you expose the block dev & mount it in the guest in one go | 16:44 |
| dguryanov|2 | Yes, agree | 16:45 |
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| * danpb has to leave now unfortunately | 16:46 | |
| thomasem | catch ya later | 16:46 |
| adrian_otto | danpb: thanks very much for attending. Catch you next time. | 16:46 |
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| adrian_otto | does anyone have suggestions for our top topics for next week? | 16:47 |
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| thomasem | It'd be good to catch up and the perception of our discussion around cinder, it sounds like. | 16:48 |
| thomasem | s/and/on | 16:48 |
| julienvey | we could start discussing Theme 2 "Drive agreement on where containers belong" | 16:48 |
| adrian_otto | thomasem: I can attend the next Nova team meeting and report our consensus on that topic, and invite anyone with opposing viewpoints to join us for a discussion on that topic. | 16:49 |
| thomasem | adrian_otto: sounds good to me! | 16:49 |
| adrian_otto | we have been asked to act as a Nova sub-team concurrently | 16:49 |
| thomasem | Ah, I see | 16:49 |
| adrian_otto | #action adrian_otto to attend upcoming Nova meeting, and report Containers Team position on cinder support for containers in Nova | 16:49 |
| dguryanov|2 | I think we should discuss implementation details, it seems we all want to add our technology to openstack, but nova guys will never accept 4 different drivers. | 16:50 |
| adrian_otto | last week ewindisch attended and checked in for us | 16:50 |
| adrian_otto | dguryanov|2: good idea. Were you thinking of this in the context of the suggestion above from julienvey, or as a separate topic? | 16:51 |
| hazmat | wrt to docker .. there's another category of issues, runtime attachment of resources and the application container.. isn't really supported. ie. attach neutron port | 16:51 |
| thomasem | Yeah, that's one I haven't tested with libvirt-lxc too | 16:51 |
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| adrian_otto | hazmat: indeed. The idea of a host agent was raised as an option to address that | 16:51 |
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| adrian_otto | we should debate the merits of that option | 16:52 |
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| thomasem | That'd be a good discussion. Hopefully by then I will have had time to see whether that is or isn't possible with existing libvirt-lxc, and perhaps ponder some solutions. | 16:52 |
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| thomasem | We shall see :) | 16:52 |
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| paulczar | the method preferred by the docker community to update mounts etc in realtime is to destroy/recreate the container | 16:53 |
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| dguryanov|2 | adrian_otto: after we reach an agreement on that topic | 16:54 |
| paulczar | I think it would be worth looking at addressing it like that … rather than trying to force it into acting like a regular openstack vm | 16:54 |
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| adrian_otto | dguryanov|2: ok, tx | 16:54 |
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| thomasem | I'd be especially interested in the limitations there. That strikes me more as a workaround, then again, the containerized way of thinking is that we have the flexibility to do things like that. | 16:55 |
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| thomasem | I've got to drop off. I'll catch y'all next time! | 16:56 |
| adrian_otto | Ok, I have added two discussion topics for next week here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Containers#Agenda_for_2014-06-03_2200_UTC | 16:56 |
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| thomasem | sounds good! | 16:56 |
| adrian_otto | feel free to add to that | 16:56 |
| adrian_otto | thomasem: see you next time | 16:56 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, any final thoughts before moving to adjournment today? | 16:57 |
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| adrian_otto | oh, ewindisch has appeared! | 16:58 |
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| ewindisch | hi | 16:58 |
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| ewindisch | oh, off by hour error? | 16:58 |
| ewindisch | :( | 16:58 |
| adrian_otto | Thanks everyone for your time and attention today. I look forward to seeing you again on 2014-06-03 at 2200 UTC | 16:59 |
| adrian_otto | #endmeeting | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 16:59:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-05-27-16.02.html | 16:59 |
| apmelton | o/ | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-05-27-16.02.txt | 16:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/containers/2014/containers.2014-05-27-16.02.log.html | 16:59 |
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| ruhe | #startmeeting murano | 17:02 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 17:02:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ruhe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'murano' | 17:02 |
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| ruhe | #topic roll call | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:03 | |
| *** kgriffs|afk is now known as kgriffs | 17:03 | |
| tsufiev | Timur Sufiev | 17:03 |
| ruhe | who's here for the meeting today? | 17:03 |
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| dteselkin_ | Dmitry Teselkin | 17:03 |
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| katyafervent | Ekaterina Fedorova | 17:04 |
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| stan_lagun | Stan Lagun | 17:04 |
| ruhe | woohoo. we have a quorum | 17:05 |
| ruhe | #topic Action Items Review | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items Review (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:05 | |
| ruhe | i wasn't present on the last meeting. i don't see any action items in the logs | 17:05 |
| ruhe | is that correct? | 17:05 |
| ruhe | #topic Review roadmap for j-1 | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review roadmap for j-1 (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:06 | |
| katyafervent | Yes, it's | 17:06 |
| ruhe | #link https://launchpad.net/murano/+milestone/juno-1 | 17:07 |
| ruhe | that's what we have planned for j-1 for now ^^ | 17:07 |
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| ruhe | there are a couple of features we'd like to land in j-1 | 17:07 |
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| ruhe | on of them is to allow users to use external Murano app repositories... | 17:08 |
| katyafervent | It's just 10 blueprints | 17:08 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | yes | 17:08 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | external repositories it is interesting | 17:08 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, interesting that normalize-dashboard-pagination is in list, while its dependency app-catalog-pagination doesn't | 17:08 |
| ruhe | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule | 17:09 |
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| ruhe | tsufiev: can you give me a link? | 17:09 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, oh, sorry it does | 17:09 |
| ruhe | k | 17:09 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | 10 bp for 2 weeks? | 17:09 |
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| ruhe | for people present here i believe that would be enough. I guess Steve and his team will add somthing to this list | 17:10 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | we have 3 bp's assignet to one man: Timur Sufiev | 17:11 |
| tsufiev | btully, just in time :). we're currently discussing murano blueprints for J1 | 17:11 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | is it ok? | 17:11 |
| btully | sorry day back from a holiday weekend and i think our schedule's are confused | 17:11 |
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| tsufiev | tnurlygayanov_ yes, 2 of them are already implemented and on review now | 17:11 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | ou, ok | 17:11 |
| btully | sounds good tsufiev | 17:12 |
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| ruhe | so, i'm going to add one more blueprint for external repositories. that'll allow users to use our app incubator any time anywhere | 17:12 |
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| ruhe | #action ruhe create blueprint for external repositories | 17:12 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | also I suggest to update status for blueprints with status'Unknown' | 17:13 |
| tsufiev | btully, what do you think about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/murano-ui-horizon-patterns ? | 17:13 |
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| btully | I added some work items to it on Friday. Did you see those? | 17:13 |
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| tsufiev | btully, yes. i mean, in terms of planning and J1 priorities | 17:14 |
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| btully | I'd be happy to start working on those work items with a TODO status, assuming george doesn't mind | 17:15 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | ruhe, let's update status of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/alembic-migrations | 17:15 |
| ruhe | tnurlygayanov_: there are only two BPs in unknown state. mine is really in unknown state, i plan to start working on it later this week. katyafervent: what about your BP https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/add-article-about-heat-templates-as-app-def | 17:16 |
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| tsufiev | to me, 'TODO' things in that blueprint can be easily done in J1... ruhe, does that mean we should split Brian's blueprint into several, one of which will be scheduled for J1? | 17:16 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | ok. we can set 'Not Started'. | 17:16 |
| ruhe | tsufiev: you can split that blueprint into separate ones or just track every TODO items as a blueprint work item | 17:17 |
| katyafervent | well, I'm writing demo about deploying from heat templates | 17:17 |
| ruhe | tsufiev: btully: that's up to you how to track it. choose what you feel is more appropriate | 17:18 |
| katyafervent | since it would be ready I'll have the material and update documentation | 17:18 |
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| btully | This is all new to me, so I guess whatever is easiest? | 17:18 |
| ruhe | for me it is easier to track things in separate blueprints | 17:19 |
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| tsufiev | +1 for separate blueprints | 17:19 |
| ruhe | btully: will you please create blueprints for items you would like to implement in J1? | 17:20 |
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| btully | so you mean, the blueprint i already created, seperate the TODO items into new blueprints, even though they are all dependencies? | 17:21 |
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| tsufiev | btully, i'd suggest to split the part you're going to do in J1 and add it as dependency to the original one | 17:21 |
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| ruhe | +1 to what tsufiev said | 17:22 |
| btully | ok. and just to be clear, when is J1 (or where can I find out when J1 is on Launchpad)? | 17:22 |
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| tsufiev | btully, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule | 17:22 |
| ruhe | btully: here is release schedule for OpenStack (which we're following) https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule | 17:22 |
| btully | ok, thanks | 17:23 |
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| ruhe | btully: j1 is a shortcut for juno-1 https://launchpad.net/murano/+milestone/juno-1 . you'll need to update "Milestone target" in your blueprints | 17:24 |
| btully | ok | 17:24 |
| ruhe | anything else on the topic "Review roadmap for j-1"? | 17:24 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, frankly speaking i have some doubts about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/dynamic-fields-on-service-details at J1 | 17:25 |
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| ruhe | #action btully to create blueprints extracted from generic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/murano-ui-horizon-patterns | 17:25 |
| tsufiev | it requires changes in dynamic UI specification, and probably will break backwards compatibility | 17:25 |
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| ruhe | tsufiev: select from two options :) 1. postpone it right now 2. keep scheduled for j1 and postpone later, in case if it really couldn't be done in j1 timeframe | 17:27 |
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| tsufiev | ok, i select the (2) | 17:27 |
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| ruhe | any objections? | 17:28 |
| tsufiev | it is enough time to implement it alone, just wanted to design new spec _right_ (and not in a hurry) | 17:28 |
| ruhe | #agreed postpone https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/dynamic-fields-on-service-details | 17:28 |
| ruhe | tsufiev: please remove milestone target from this BP | 17:28 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, done | 17:29 |
| ruhe | ok. we need to move to the next topic | 17:29 |
| ruhe | #info agreed on the plan for j1. but we still expect more items from sjmc7 | 17:29 |
| ruhe | #topic Review blueprints for MuranoPL changes | 17:30 |
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| ruhe | stan_lagun: your turn | 17:30 |
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| btully | under "Propose for sprint" do I leave it as "nothing selected"? | 17:30 |
| ruhe | btully: yes. this field is not used by OpenStack projects | 17:31 |
| stan_lagun | I've submitted quite a big number of blueprints today | 17:31 |
| btully | thanks | 17:31 |
| stan_lagun | About fixing various issues in MuranoPL | 17:31 |
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| gokrokve_ | Is there a BP for exception/error handling? | 17:31 |
| stan_lagun | so i guess we need to decide which of them are going to be scheduled for J1 | 17:32 |
| stan_lagun | gokrokve_ yes | 17:32 |
| gokrokve_ | This is what we had in previous version but not in the current. | 17:32 |
| stan_lagun | let me find | 17:32 |
| stan_lagun | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/muranopl-exception-handling | 17:32 |
| gokrokve_ | I think this is very important for now as without exception handling deployment will hang forever in some cases. | 17:32 |
| gokrokve_ | What is your ETA for this BP? | 17:33 |
| stan_lagun | I think it is possible implement this BP and other debugging-related things in J1 time-frame if we concentrate on this | 17:34 |
| ruhe | btully: one more request for you. please add me (ruhe) as an approver for your blueprints. (it's just a workaround for launchpad's inability to send notifications on new blieprints) | 17:34 |
| btully | ok thanks | 17:34 |
| stan_lagun | I mean 2 weeks of work for 1 dev should be enough | 17:34 |
| btully | is your name "ruhe" in launchpad? | 17:35 |
| btully | i see you (Ruslan) :) | 17:35 |
| ruhe | btully: it's my id in launchpad. it should work. otherwise you can use a slightly longer version "Ruslan Kamaldinov" :) | 17:35 |
| gokrokve_ | stan_lagun: Cool. I vote to implement them at first. | 17:36 |
| gokrokve_ | Then deployment process will be controllable. | 17:36 |
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| ruhe | i support implementing error handling in j1 | 17:37 |
| stan_lagun | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/muranopl-stack-traces | 17:37 |
| stan_lagun | this is also part of debuggability | 17:37 |
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| ruhe | stan_lagun: you already have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/hot-packages | 17:37 |
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| stan_lagun | This BP duplicates https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/muranopl-stacktrace :( | 17:37 |
| ruhe | stan_lagun: will you be able to handle https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/muranopl-exception-handling in the same time? | 17:38 |
| stan_lagun | HOT packages is nearly finished. One bug need to be addressed | 17:38 |
| ruhe | stan_lagun: good | 17:38 |
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| ruhe | stan_lagun: can you please mark one of these "stacktrace" blueprints as a duplicate? | 17:39 |
| stan_lagun | I also would like to improve debugability of contracts. I've written to ML on this | 17:39 |
| stan_lagun | ok | 17:39 |
| ruhe | stan_lagun: you'll need to change definition to "Superseded" | 17:39 |
| ruhe | stan_lagun: you want to improve debugability of contracts also in J1? | 17:40 |
| stan_lagun | yes | 17:41 |
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| stan_lagun | actually I already have prototype implementation that I'm going to commit as soon as we discuss all the details in ML | 17:41 |
| gokrokve_ | What else do we have in BPs? | 17:42 |
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| ruhe | stan_lagun: and you already filed a bug for that. i'd suggest to track this as a blueprint | 17:42 |
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| stan_lagun | ruhe, that bug is only part of the work | 17:42 |
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| ruhe | gokrokve_: it's seems like we have enough work items for J1. would you like to add more? | 17:43 |
| stan_lagun | If you talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/murano/+bug/1313694 | 17:43 |
| gokrokve_ | No. That is fine to have couple important BPs for J1. | 17:43 |
| gokrokve_ | Smaller scope is better. | 17:44 |
| ruhe | to summarize: | 17:44 |
| stan_lagun | I'd like to add one more | 17:44 |
| stan_lagun | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/rename-workflow-to-methods | 17:44 |
| gokrokve_ | There will be a space to add other BPs as soon as Steve is back. | 17:44 |
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| ruhe | #info agreed to target https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/muranopl-exception-handling to J1 | 17:44 |
| stan_lagun | 30 minutes of work but very breaking change :) | 17:44 |
| gokrokve_ | stan_lagun: +1. It should be trivial change. | 17:44 |
| stan_lagun | yes. But breaks 100% of existing apps | 17:45 |
| ruhe | #info agreed to target https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/muranopl-stack-traces (or the other one with similar description) to J1 | 17:45 |
| gokrokve_ | Can we do support both? | 17:45 |
| stan_lagun | Yes, we can (and drop support for Workflow in K release, for example) | 17:45 |
| gokrokve_ | And then deprecate Workflows gradually providing autoconversion? | 17:46 |
| gokrokve_ | Ok. | 17:46 |
| stan_lagun | But anyway I think we need to discuss how we handle breaking changes | 17:46 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: stan_lagun: i think we need a wider audience to discuss such changes. would it make sense to bring this topic to ML? | 17:46 |
| gokrokve_ | Sure. And we need to change version of th format to reflect the change. | 17:46 |
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| gokrokve_ | Lets explore what we can do and then show options to community in ML. | 17:47 |
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| ruhe | ok | 17:47 |
| stan_lagun | Versioning is another big future that is missing | 17:47 |
| ruhe | we definitely need versioning in Juno | 17:47 |
| stan_lagun | yep. But not in J1 | 17:48 |
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| ruhe | stan_lagun: agree | 17:48 |
| ruhe | any other items to discuss in this topic? | 17:48 |
| stan_lagun | 1 topic from my side | 17:49 |
| ruhe | stan_lagun: sure | 17:49 |
| stan_lagun | Contract improvements that I've written in ML | 17:49 |
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| stan_lagun | They also introduce breaking change. Although it is very unlikely to break anything | 17:50 |
| gokrokve_ | I think we are not in danger here as our curent contracts are very simple. | 17:50 |
| stan_lagun | gokrokve_ I suggest to simplify contracts | 17:51 |
| stan_lagun | But maybe we need to agree on breaking changes before making such commits | 17:51 |
| gokrokve_ | That is fine. Again, can we support both old and new versions of syntax? | 17:52 |
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| stan_lagun | no | 17:52 |
| stan_lagun | syntax is the same | 17:52 |
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| stan_lagun | semantic differences | 17:52 |
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| stan_lagun | but the difference is only noticeable for corner cases | 17:53 |
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| gokrokve_ | So both variants will be supported? Where is a breaking change? | 17:54 |
| stan_lagun | no, only one variant | 17:54 |
| ruhe | stan_lagun: to make these changes transparent i suggest to prepare a patch to app incubator which updates all app definitiions before you send a patch that changes MuranoPL | 17:54 |
| tsufiev | gokrokve_, the same contract will mean different things after these changes | 17:54 |
| stan_lagun | no incubator app will break | 17:55 |
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| stan_lagun | for example currently $.int() means int or null. With my changes it would mean just int and null will be converted to 0 | 17:56 |
| gokrokve_ | stan_lagun: Then it is ok to introduce this change. | 17:56 |
| ruhe | 4 minutes left. we have one more topic to discuss | 17:56 |
| gokrokve_ | Just do this ASAP as 0.5 just released and it will take month or two when it will be actually used. | 17:56 |
| tsufiev | gokrokve_, you mean backporting changes from J1 to 0.5? | 17:57 |
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| ruhe | #info agreed to introduce changes in contracts (contract improvements) | 17:57 |
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| ruhe | #topic Make gate tests voting | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Make gate tests voting (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:58 | |
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| ruhe | so, we recently renamed stackforge/murano-api to stackforge/murano and renamed package muranoapi to murano | 17:58 |
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| ruhe | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/rename-murano-api-to-murano | 17:59 |
| ruhe | no, our dsvm job is green again | 17:59 |
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| ruhe | i'd like to give it one more week to prove it's stable and make it voting | 17:59 |
| tsufiev | no objections from my side | 17:59 |
| ruhe | it means that patches will not be able to be merged if this job fails | 17:59 |
| katyafervent | +1 | 18:00 |
| ruhe | #info agreed to mark murano-dsvm job as voting one week later | 18:00 |
| sc68cal | ruhe: heads up, have a meeting slated for 1800 | 18:00 |
| ruhe | that's all for today. thanks everyone | 18:01 |
| ruhe | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 18:01:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-05-27-17.02.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-05-27-17.02.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-05-27-17.02.log.html | 18:01 |
| ruhe | sc68cal: thanks :) | 18:01 |
| sc68cal | :) | 18:01 |
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| sc68cal | Who's attending the Neutron QoS subteam? | 18:01 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_qos | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 18:01:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos' | 18:01 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Neutron_Quality_of_Service_API_Sub_Team_Meeting | 18:01 |
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| Kanzhe | hi Sean | 18:02 |
| sc68cal | hey how's it going? | 18:02 |
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| sc68cal | going to wait to 5 after to see who else joins for the meeting | 18:03 |
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| kevinbenton | hi | 18:03 |
| sc68cal | kevinbenton: hey! | 18:03 |
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| smonov | Hello | 18:03 |
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| sc68cal | smonov: hello | 18:04 |
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| kevinbenton | i’m on free airport wifi so my connenction might be unstable | 18:05 |
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| sc68cal | kevinbenton: ok - no worries :) | 18:05 |
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| sc68cal | So it's 5 after, let's go ahead and start introductions - I'm Sean Collins and I work at Comcast | 18:05 |
| sc68cal | #topic introductions | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "introductions (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 18:05 | |
| smonov | Hi guys. I'm Simeon Monov and work at IBM. | 18:06 |
| kevinbenton | I’m Kevin Benton and I work at Big Switch Networks | 18:07 |
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| Kanzhe | Kanzhe at Big Switch Network | 18:08 |
| pcarver | Paul Carver @ AT&T | 18:08 |
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| sc68cal | anyone else? | 18:09 |
| sc68cal | OK - I'll just lay out what I've got so far for an agenda | 18:10 |
| sc68cal | #topic agenda | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 18:10 | |
| sc68cal | Really the two things to talk about so far are a recap of the meeting we had in the neutron pod at the summit, and discussion of the current spec for the API in neutron-specs | 18:11 |
| sc68cal | Then turn it over to open discussion, to give people time to digest the spec | 18:11 |
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| sc68cal | any questions? | 18:12 |
| kevinbenton | sc68cal: do you have a link handy for the spec? | 18:12 |
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| sc68cal | kevinbenton: yup - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88599/ | 18:12 |
| sc68cal | #topic ATL summit recap | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ATL summit recap (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 18:12 | |
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| sc68cal | So for those that didn't attend, we had a well attended meeting at the networking pod at the ATL summit | 18:12 |
| sc68cal | Lots of really good discussions about where the API is, and what people are doing around QoS currently, and how we can bind everything together with a vendor neutral API | 18:13 |
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| sc68cal | So currently I am working on improving the spec that was submitted to Neutron-specs, since the QoS extension API was mostly designed in Launchpad, so I am working to pull things into a single document | 18:15 |
| sc68cal | #topic spec | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 18:15 | |
| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88599/ | 18:15 |
| sc68cal | #undo | 18:15 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x235d5d0> | 18:15 |
| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88599/ QoS API extension specification | 18:15 |
| kevinbenton | sc68cal: so after a quick look at it. where is the association of a policy to a port/network going to be stored? | 18:16 |
| sc68cal | kevinbenton: the API extension adds a new attribute to Ports and Networks | 18:16 |
| sc68cal | qos_id | 18:16 |
| sc68cal | to link back to a QoS object | 18:16 |
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| sc68cal | The REST API impact section shows the code, but it probably needs to be made more explicit | 18:17 |
| pcarver | The biggest issue in relation to the prototype we've been working on is that we're trying to make bandwidth guarantees between pairs of points. That doesn't fit exactly onto having the QoS be tied to a single port or network. | 18:17 |
| sc68cal | it's a bit too low-level, tied directly to the WSGI interface of Neutron | 18:18 |
| sc68cal | (the EXTENDED_ATTRIBUTES_2_0 piece) | 18:18 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: Are the pairs of ports on the same neutron net | 18:18 |
| sc68cal | or between different networks in Neutron | 18:19 |
| pcarver | Typically I think they will be, although that includes traffic out to WAN via Q-router | 18:19 |
| pcarver | But it wouldn't be 100% of traffic on that neutron network | 18:19 |
| kevinbenton | sc68cal: i see. so it will just be QOS: UUID in a network object | 18:20 |
| sc68cal | kevinbenton: correct | 18:20 |
| kevinbenton | sc68cal: can we have a notion of a default QOS policy applied to networks and ports without one explicitly set? | 18:20 |
| kevinbenton | sc68cal: i’m thinking of a completely admin-driven workflow in this case where tenants aren’t allowed to set their own QoS policies | 18:21 |
| Kanzhe | sc68cal: Would it make sense to have a separate mapping table, where QOS can be mapped to port, network, or other objects if other use case pops out? | 18:21 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: I see - the difficulty with that is how do you define a QoS where the destination is on the WAN | 18:22 |
| sc68cal | and out of the purview of Neutron | 18:22 |
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| sc68cal | You'd either create a network that goes out to the WAN, and associate a QoS with that entire network | 18:22 |
| sc68cal | or go per-port | 18:22 |
| pcarver | sc68cal: yes, the WAN is outside Neutron. We're assuming a DSCP honoring WAN that the OpenStack environmnet can hand off to | 18:23 |
| sc68cal | you'd just have to make a net that only egress traffic goes on, so you don't have the qos apply to traffic that is not egressing | 18:23 |
| sc68cal | kevinbenton: Kanzhe: will get to your questions :) | 18:23 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: excellent - that is very close to our usecase as well | 18:23 |
| sc68cal | kevinbenton: we have a similar thought | 18:24 |
| sc68cal | We create networks that are owned by the admin tenant, and shared = true | 18:24 |
| pcarver | we're focussing on guaranteeing bandwidth across the datacenter/LAN and getting the marked traffic out to the WAN | 18:24 |
| sc68cal | then we set a QoS policy on that, and tenants attach to it | 18:24 |
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| Kanzhe | pcarver: sc68cal , If the QOS mapping is in a separate table. One can construct a port-pair, then map qos to the port-pair. | 18:24 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: OK - so looks like we're good at least on that if you do a network dedicated to just getting out to the WAN | 18:25 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: we just need to figure out how we want to mark + ratelimit | 18:25 |
| pcarver | another part of what we're doing is making sure that they underlying physical network has sufficient bandwidth on th erequired paths across physical links | 18:26 |
| sc68cal | Kanzhe: Correct, you could create a QOS policy and just apply the two ports | 18:26 |
| sc68cal | instead of the network | 18:26 |
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| sc68cal | but it would apply to all traffic leaving those ports, unless your driver supports doing by destination address | 18:26 |
| pcarver | We're interested in figuring out more about the discussion that has been going on the mailing list about physical topology | 18:26 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: There was also a post that someone from the climate team posted | 18:27 |
| sc68cal | since climate is supposed to handle capacity and resource allocation - the context was for reserving IP addresses | 18:27 |
| pcarver | just marking traffic isn't sufficient if the underlying physical network doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to meet the guaranteeds | 18:27 |
| sc68cal | but it might also apply to bandwidth capacity | 18:27 |
| pcarver | that's why we've viewed it as an "admission conrol" problem | 18:27 |
| pcarver | a key capability is to be able to deny reservations if they would exceed the physical capacity | 18:28 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: To me, that sounds like right up the alley of Climate | 18:28 |
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| pcarver | because if you can't deny reservations then eventually you'll reach a point where all the traffic is highly marked and still gets poor throughput | 18:29 |
| sc68cal | we may need to get Neutron to expose bandwidth capacity so that Climate can make those decisions | 18:29 |
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| pcarver | Climate is yet another project that I haven't had enough time to do all the reading on. Definitely on the "to read" list | 18:29 |
| sc68cal | Still spitballing, but also Ceilometer | 18:30 |
| sc68cal | that would provide the real time counters as to utilization | 18:30 |
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| sc68cal | Probably does packet/byte counters already, or should | 18:30 |
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| sc68cal | so between neutron climate and cielometer you could get a good idea of how much BW is in use, vs. how much total | 18:30 |
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| DinaBelova | pcarver - not Climate, Blazar is the new name) | 18:31 |
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| sc68cal | Anyway, that's pretty deep in the weeds :) | 18:31 |
| pcarver | sc68cal: I think you're talking about after the fact. | 18:31 |
| pcarver | sc68cal: That's not a bad idea but doesn't make guarantees. | 18:31 |
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| pcarver | We're thinking of VoIP use cases | 18:32 |
| sc68cal | Comcast has similar needs ;) | 18:32 |
| pcarver | Though video is certainly an area where you'd also want guarantees | 18:32 |
| sc68cal | honestly guarantees of BW is a huge space - it probably warrants *at least* its own spec | 18:33 |
| sc68cal | but before we get too carried away, any other q's about the qos api ext as it exists currently? | 18:33 |
| pcarver | Does the QoS subteam need a sub-subteam? | 18:33 |
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| pcarver | :-) | 18:34 |
| sc68cal | :-) | 18:34 |
| sc68cal | if someone puts a spec together, let's see where it goes | 18:34 |
| kevinbenton | for bandwidth guaruntees? | 18:35 |
| sc68cal | yeah | 18:35 |
| sc68cal | and capacity | 18:35 |
| sc68cal | off the top of my head, it also probably has some overlap with group based policies | 18:35 |
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| kevinbenton | yeah, i agree that this patch gives us a good starting point and at least a high-level object to start expressing these needs in | 18:35 |
| sc68cal | maybe if we get some good pieces into this API, we could piggy back on GBPO to make those guarantees | 18:36 |
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| sc68cal | where you say - guarantee X bandwith via GBPO and GBPO drives that via the qos api | 18:36 |
| sc68cal | plus all the other pieces I mentiond ;) | 18:36 |
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| sc68cal | oh, the review finally rendered | 18:37 |
| sc68cal | #link http://docs-draft.openstack.org/99/88599/3/check/gate-neutron-specs-docs/f246385/doc/build/html/specs/juno/qos-api-extension.html QoS API extension (rendered) | 18:37 |
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| kevinbenton | i have to leave early, plane is boarding now. sc68cal: thanks for putting this on | 18:39 |
| sc68cal | kevinbenton: have a safe flight - thanks for joining! | 18:39 |
| Kanzhe | kevinbenton: See u later. :-) | 18:40 |
| sc68cal | If there isn't any other questions - I'll give everyone back 15 minutes to let people digest the spec, review + add comments, and such | 18:41 |
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| pcarver | sc68cal: I'm all in favor of moving forward. I'll continue to work with my peers to formulate more input but not to slow anything down. | 18:42 |
| pcarver | Our view of QoS may be in addition to or complementary to the current spec. | 18:42 |
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| Kanzhe | sc68cal: This is a good starting point for QOS. | 18:43 |
| sc68cal | pcarver: perfect - please do continue to discuss use cases | 18:43 |
| sc68cal | Kanzhe: thank you :) | 18:43 |
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| sc68cal | OK - until next week, thank you everyone for attending! | 18:44 |
| Kanzhe | Thanks, bye. | 18:44 |
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| smonov | thanks | 18:44 |
| sc68cal | I am also on #openstack-neutron during USA EST | 18:44 |
| sc68cal | as well as the ML | 18:45 |
| sc68cal | take care everyone! | 18:45 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 18:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 18:45:14 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2014/neutron_qos.2014-05-27-18.01.html | 18:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2014/neutron_qos.2014-05-27-18.01.txt | 18:45 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2014/neutron_qos.2014-05-27-18.01.log.html | 18:45 |
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| jrist | o/ | 19:03 |
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| lsmola2 | is there a meeting today? | 19:13 |
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| jrist | lsmola: nope | 19:14 |
| jrist | lsmola2: apparently just the one tomorrow at 1am MT | 19:14 |
| lsmola2 | jrist, yeah I am just checking the ical | 19:15 |
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| jrist | ;) | 19:20 |
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| adrian_otto | #startmeeting Solum Team Meeting | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 27 22:00:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is adrian_otto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'solum_team_meeting' | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Solum#Agenda_for_2014-05-27_2200_UTC Our Agenda | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Roll Call | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:00 | |
| paulmo | Paul Montgomery | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | Adrian Otto | 22:00 |
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| asalkeld | o/ | 22:00 |
| tomblank1 | tom blankenship | 22:00 |
| james_li | James Li | 22:01 |
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| ravips | Ravi | 22:01 |
| muralia | murali | 22:01 |
| julienvey | Julien Vey | 22:01 |
| devkulkarni | Devdatta | 22:01 |
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| adrian_otto | for those of us in the USA, I hope you had a meaningful Memorial Day holiday yesterday. | 22:02 |
| adrian_otto | welcome everyone | 22:02 |
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| adrian_otto | if you have not recorded your attendance yet, feel free to chime in at any time. | 22:03 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Announcements | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:03 | |
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| adrian_otto | I do not have any announcements prepared. Do any team members have any announcements they would like to make? | 22:03 |
| asalkeld | no, not really | 22:04 |
| paulmo | Just a request to help keep this up to date: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/ExternalDependencies | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | paulmo: thanks! | 22:04 |
| devkulkarni | no | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | ok, next agenda item | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Ratify Election Rules | 22:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ratify Election Rules (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:04 | |
| adrian_otto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Elections Proposed Election Rules | 22:04 |
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| adrian_otto | Please take a moment to review this, which was based on your feedback from last week's meeting | 22:05 |
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| devkulkarni | What is fullform of ATC? | 22:05 |
| paulmo | +1 dev, was about to ask | 22:05 |
| adrian_otto | I will be seeking any feedback you may have to amend it prior to moving for a #agreed by unanimous consent. | 22:05 |
| adrian_otto | ATC = Active Technical Contributor | 22:05 |
| asalkeld | you have code in tree? | 22:06 |
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| adrian_otto | means that you contributed code in the prior release, or the one before that, yes | 22:06 |
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| devkulkarni | election result date is missing (I think we had talked about it as well) | 22:07 |
| asalkeld | seems like the normal procedure | 22:07 |
| devkulkarni | thanks adrian_otto for the clarification | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | ok, I added a new #1 and pushed the rest down | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | so reload to see taht | 22:07 |
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| adrian_otto | I should clarify the 6-month release cycles | 22:08 |
| paulmo | "previous two release cycles" = 1 year? That seems to not jive with #2 | 22:08 |
| devkulkarni | just a minor tweak .. "who has made a contribution to Solum in one of the two previous release cycles" ? | 22:08 |
| adrian_otto | reload again | 22:08 |
| adrian_otto | and just updated #2 accordingly | 22:09 |
| paulmo | 1's timeframe doesn't match with 2 and 3 if I read it correctly | 22:09 |
| devkulkarni | okay, that clarifies that the contribution could be in any one of the previous two release cycles | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | isn't there a generic openstack one we can link to? | 22:10 |
| adrian_otto | paulmo: ok thx. #3 corrected. | 22:10 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul is started and processing changes that were in the queue when it was stopped. Changes uploaded or approved since then will need to be re-approved or rechecked. | 22:10 | |
| paulmo | Is anyone qualified? There haven't been 2 full cycles right? | 22:10 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: no, because they use a more sophisticated process | 22:10 |
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| asalkeld | I see | 22:10 |
| adrian_otto | paulmo, yes, you just need one contribution. | 22:10 |
| adrian_otto | so all current contributors qualify by these rules | 22:10 |
| adrian_otto | ok, any other feedback on the rules? | 22:11 |
| asalkeld | looks ok to me | 22:11 |
| paulmo | Ah, ok,… perhaps 1 should be clarified with "who has made a contribution _at any time_ in the previous..." | 22:11 |
| devkulkarni | lgtm | 22:11 |
| tomblank1 | paulmo: yes, i think that would clarify what you were asking about.. | 22:12 |
| tomblank1 | otherwise, looks good and we should go with it... | 22:12 |
| adrian_otto | paulmo: how about: An ATC is an Active Technical Contributor, defined as any individual who has made a contribution to Solum within the previous two 6-month release cycles. | 22:12 |
| paulmo | Yes, sounds good to me. | 22:12 |
| adrian_otto | ok, tx | 22:12 |
| tomblank1 | adrian_otto: +1 | 22:13 |
| adrian_otto | ok, updated. | 22:13 |
| adrian_otto | Review just to be sure. | 22:13 |
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| adrian_otto | any objections to adopting these rules by unanimous consent? | 22:13 |
| devkulkarni | no | 22:13 |
| paulmo | no objection | 22:13 |
| ravips | no | 22:13 |
| tomblank1 | no objection | 22:13 |
| asalkeld | no | 22:13 |
| paulczar | do it! | 22:13 |
| muralia | nope | 22:13 |
| adrian_otto | ok, hearing no objections: | 22:13 |
| peoplemerge | I'm here, trying to triage multiple meetings | 22:14 |
| datsun180b | no objections | 22:14 |
| adrian_otto | #agreed We have approved the following election rules: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Elections | 22:14 |
| adrian_otto | thanks everyone | 22:14 |
| adrian_otto | now, if at any time anyoen feels there is a problem with the rules, I ask that you bring those concerns here before editing the page. | 22:14 |
| adrian_otto | so that we can address them as a team. | 22:14 |
| adrian_otto | ok, let's advance to our next order of business | 22:15 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Review Action Items | 22:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:15 | |
| adrian_otto | drian_otto to file/update blueprints for Pipeline and Environments | 22:15 |
| adrian_otto | +a | 22:15 |
| adrian_otto | Status: COMPLETE. | 22:15 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/solum/+spec/pipeline Pipeline Blueprint | 22:15 |
| adrian_otto | See also: Linked bug/task tickets (there are a few already, we may add more as needed) | 22:16 |
| adrian_otto | link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/solum/+spec/environments Environments Blueprint | 22:16 |
| adrian_otto | it also has linked task tickets | 22:16 |
| adrian_otto | any remarks on these? | 22:16 |
| asalkeld | as long as it is consistent with our gdoc I guess | 22:17 |
| devkulkarni | About Environments.. | 22:17 |
| asalkeld | were we not going to call them "targets" | 22:17 |
| adrian_otto | we can link the Gdoc to it too | 22:17 |
| asalkeld | to avoid confusion | 22:17 |
| devkulkarni | I know we have clearer understanding of pipelines, but I am not sure if we have similar about environments | 22:17 |
| devkulkarni | yes, lets put the link of the gdoc in both the blueprints | 22:18 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, well - we all know what's in them | 22:18 |
| adrian_otto | anyone have that handy? | 22:18 |
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| asalkeld | https://docs.google.com/a/salkeld.id.au/document/d/1a0yjxKWbwnY7g9NZtYALEZdm1g8Uf4fixDZLAgRBZCU/edit# | 22:18 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: tx! | 22:18 |
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| devkulkarni | asalkeld: | 22:19 |
| asalkeld | yip | 22:19 |
| devkulkarni | one of things that we were discussing at Atlanta was whether pipelines are same as environments | 22:19 |
| adrian_otto | it is already linked | 22:19 |
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| devkulkarni | this was during our Thursday's discussion | 22:19 |
| adrian_otto | to Pileplines | 22:19 |
| adrian_otto | my understanding is that we maintained that a Pipeline is not an Environment | 22:20 |
| devkulkarni | so thats what I meant when I said that there needs to be some more clarity | 22:20 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, that is more credentials related | 22:20 |
| devkulkarni | oh okay | 22:20 |
| adrian_otto | A Pipeline is an imperative process through with Solum is expected to progress | 22:20 |
| devkulkarni | we did agree to that I think | 22:20 |
| asalkeld | so you *could* use a different pipeline instead of making different targets | 22:21 |
| asalkeld | (as a different user) | 22:21 |
| asalkeld | (if that made sense) | 22:21 |
| adrian_otto | whereas an Environment is a place where we relate one or more assemblies in a shared context that may contain additional constraints or attributes. | 22:21 |
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| devkulkarni | okay.. does gdoc has discussion about environments as well? | 22:22 |
| devkulkarni | (will read it) we can proceed.. | 22:22 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: yes, I recall that as an option. | 22:22 |
| asalkeld | devkulkarni, not so much | 22:22 |
| asalkeld | I struggle to see the real use cases (it's quite advanced functionality) | 22:22 |
| devkulkarni | yeah.. pipelines are very clear.. | 22:23 |
| adrian_otto | ok, we can revisit Pipelines and Environments in our Open Discussion as needed | 22:23 |
| devkulkarni | +1 | 22:23 |
| adrian_otto | if we end up not needing one of those blueprints, we can deal with that | 22:23 |
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| adrian_otto | next on our agenda is... | 22:23 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Mistral Integration Discussion | 22:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mistral Integration Discussion (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:23 | |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: all yours | 22:23 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/solum/+spec/solum-mistral Superseded Blueprint | 22:24 |
| devkulkarni | so lots of WIPs and blueprints have been created regarding this.. | 22:24 |
| adrian_otto | that was the BP you filed | 22:24 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/solum/+spec/pipeline Pipeline Blueprint | 22:24 |
| adrian_otto | that is the new one | 22:24 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/solum/+bug/1322748 Initial Mistral Feature Task | 22:24 |
| adrian_otto | and that is the individual work item assigned to you | 22:24 |
| devkulkarni | I think asalkeld and datsun would have most to discuss about Mistral | 22:24 |
| devkulkarni | I did an initial WIP of the workbook | 22:24 |
| devkulkarni | just to kickstart discussions.. | 22:24 |
| asalkeld | well I am working to get plugins into mistral | 22:25 |
| asalkeld | and julienvey is working on oauth | 22:25 |
| asalkeld | we also need oauth in mistral | 22:25 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: can you take a moment to share with us why Keystone is not the answer? | 22:25 |
| devkulkarni | How are folks finding using mistral for Solum overall? | 22:25 |
| asalkeld | and I have been fixing bugs/raising bugs | 22:25 |
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| asalkeld | adrian_otto, it is keystone | 22:26 |
| asalkeld | (keystone now does oauth1) | 22:26 |
| paulmo | A clarification of the authorization features needed and what is missing would really help me. | 22:26 |
| adrian_otto | are we referring to "oauth" and "v3 Keystone trusts" as synonyms? | 22:26 |
| asalkeld | and the tokens don't suffer from chained trust issue | 22:26 |
| asalkeld | so we logically need "trusts" | 22:27 |
| paulmo | Keystone server has trusts and OAuth1a already if I understand the pull requests correctly. | 22:27 |
| asalkeld | but oauth tokens can be passed from service to service | 22:27 |
| * morganfainberg felt a disturbance in the force...^wirc network | 22:27 | |
| adrian_otto | hi morganfainberg | 22:27 |
| asalkeld | trusts really don't like getting rescoped | 22:27 |
| morganfainberg | adrian_otto, hi there. | 22:28 |
| asalkeld | so won't work from solum -> mistral -> heat | 22:28 |
| asalkeld | anyways there are bp's out for all 3 projects | 22:28 |
| asalkeld | and people signed up for the work | 22:28 |
| devkulkarni | my main concern here is, are we sure that Solum's fine-grained auth needs are completely satisfied by OAuth1.0 | 22:29 |
| devkulkarni | or would Keystone's Trusts would be the answer for us | 22:29 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, so is there something we (as keystone) can do to help make keystone ... better and/or suit your needs if Trusts etc aren't sufficient? | 22:29 |
| devkulkarni | notwithstanding that Keystone does not yet have chained trusts | 22:29 |
| asalkeld | morganfainberg, we would need chained-trusts | 22:30 |
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| paulmo | Keystone has OAuth1a: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29130/ | 22:30 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, a chained trust is a rescopable trust? | 22:30 |
| asalkeld | but from speaking to heat team, they believe that oauth is the answer | 22:30 |
| asalkeld | morganfainberg, I believe so | 22:30 |
| devkulkarni | morganfainberg: are you asking, or are you saying they are one and the same? | 22:30 |
| * morganfainberg isn't clear on specifics of what a chained-trust would encompass | 22:30 | |
| asalkeld | morganfainberg, you would be able to create a trust token from a trust token | 22:31 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, a different trust? | 22:31 |
| asalkeld | yes | 22:31 |
| adrian_otto | one of a lesser scope, right? | 22:32 |
| morganfainberg | adrian_otto, i would hope so | 22:32 |
| asalkeld | each service needs a trust_id | 22:32 |
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| asalkeld | (yes) | 22:32 |
| asalkeld | solum is totally broken without this | 22:32 |
| asalkeld | my suggestion is to just use keystone oauth | 22:32 |
| morganfainberg | so you'd scope to X, which would have permission to scope to Y,Z,and Q | 22:32 |
| morganfainberg | via trusts. | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | morganfainberg, yip | 22:33 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, if keystone oauth would be sufficient i think it would be better than trying to secure chained trusts like that. i see so many security issues and edge cases with that kind of trust scoping | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | agree | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | tho' I am not an auth guru | 22:34 |
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| morganfainberg | asalkeld, it might... might be a security concern since oauth i don't think limits roles provided | 22:34 |
| morganfainberg | in it's current implementation | 22:34 |
| asalkeld | morganfainberg, I'll ask about it | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | not sure what the heat team plan to do about that) | 22:35 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld, yeah please come over to -keystone channel after your meeting (or a little later this week) and we can hammer out the usecase clearly | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | ok | 22:35 |
| morganfainberg | asalkeld we might even be able to drag some heat folks in. | 22:35 |
| morganfainberg | if they're around | 22:35 |
| devkulkarni | asalkeld: please mention when you plan to meet with keystone folks | 22:35 |
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| asalkeld | maybe a ml discussion | 22:35 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: would you feel comfortable taking an action item to follow up with the keystone team? | 22:36 |
| devkulkarni | +1 to ml discussion as well | 22:36 |
| morganfainberg | ML would be good too (better) to seed the convo at least | 22:36 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, for sure | 22:36 |
| * morganfainberg goes back to lurking. | 22:37 | |
| devkulkarni | thanks morganfainberg | 22:37 |
| adrian_otto | #action asalkeld follow up with keystone team by ML, and IRC (as needed) to explore options for multi-service trust tokens, OAuth, or chaining, and finding the right fit for Solum. | 22:37 |
| paulmo | Good trusts and OAuth article: http://adam.younglogic.com/2013/03/trusts-and-oauth/ | 22:37 |
| morganfainberg | devkulkarni, of course! | 22:37 |
| morganfainberg | we have some ideas on some composite token magic we want to implement but i'll look for the ML topic, the composite token might suit your needs as well. | 22:37 |
| adrian_otto | ok, so our current topic is Mistral Inegration | 22:37 |
| adrian_otto | Integration | 22:38 |
| morganfainberg | anyway.. cheers and catch you all later | 22:38 |
| adrian_otto | tx again morganfainberg | 22:38 |
| tomblank1 | thx morganfainberg: | 22:38 |
| asalkeld | so re: mistral integration | 22:38 |
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| asalkeld | I think (besides auth) it will be in good shape soon | 22:38 |
| asalkeld | there are some needed patches inflight | 22:39 |
| devkulkarni | in mistral? | 22:39 |
| adrian_otto | ok, does anyone have further concerns or remarks regarding Mistral Integration? | 22:39 |
| asalkeld | yip | 22:39 |
| devkulkarni | do we need any action from us? | 22:39 |
| asalkeld | i think we should be involved in mistral | 22:39 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: +1 | 22:40 |
| asalkeld | but we can start using it really soon | 22:40 |
| asalkeld | (auth will stop us doing useful stuff tho') | 22:40 |
| adrian_otto | so let's become a Mistral user as discussed in Atlanta, and see where that takes us | 22:40 |
| devkulkarni | +1 | 22:41 |
| asalkeld | that is the most important issue right now | 22:41 |
| adrian_otto | worst case we can persist account credentails in barbican, and individually auth to separate services as needed | 22:41 |
| adrian_otto | and we can shed that for a more elegant solution once we find the right approach | 22:41 |
| adrian_otto | my understanding is that Heat made the same first step, right? | 22:41 |
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| adrian_otto | but even worse, because it stored the account username and password in its own db | 22:42 |
| asalkeld | yeah, but it's nasty | 22:42 |
| devkulkarni | there was no barbican then :P | 22:42 |
| adrian_otto | right | 22:42 |
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| adrian_otto | but sometimes progress requires a little nasty | 22:42 |
| adrian_otto | so let's see if there is something we can do in limited scope with the auth facilities we already have | 22:42 |
| paulczar | just use the admin user/tenant until oath is ready ? | 22:42 |
| adrian_otto | paulczar: seems to me that would work for now | 22:43 |
| julienvey | paulczar: simple but works fine for now, +1 | 22:43 |
| devkulkarni | not a bad option (although we have to deal with namespaces for stacks and such) | 22:43 |
| asalkeld | paulczar, it's what to do when mistral is doing something on our part | 22:43 |
| adrian_otto | except you would not want to allow end users to modify workflows | 22:43 |
| adrian_otto | unless they treat Solum as a single tenant system | 22:43 |
| asalkeld | so we would have to imbed user/pass into mistral tasks | 22:43 |
| devkulkarni | we have discussed admin user/tenant option on and off.. | 22:43 |
| asalkeld | (maybe the target/environment can help) | 22:44 |
| asalkeld | but when we get a git hook, we need to get a token - it would need to be based on user/password | 22:45 |
| asalkeld | mmm - ok : I'll look at a plan "b" | 22:46 |
| adrian_otto | user/password = barbican secret token | 22:46 |
| adrian_otto | let's only go that route if it's clearly less work than adding missing capability to keystone | 22:46 |
| julienvey | we should be able to come with oauth pretty soon, keystone doc about that is quite good | 22:47 |
| asalkeld | maybe our target/env can have a barbican reference | 22:47 |
| adrian_otto | or the new stuff for keystone is controversial to the extent it can't land soon | 22:47 |
| devkulkarni | julienvey: do you have a link? | 22:47 |
| julienvey | yes, 1s | 22:47 |
| julienvey | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/bab63bff9dc4fb94912f1e9b8a7bba8445f34fd5/doc/source/extensions/oauth1.rst | 22:47 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, for oauth we don't need changes to keystone | 22:47 |
| julienvey | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80193/15/examples/scripts/exercise_v3_oauth.py | 22:47 |
| * paulmo is still not sure what is missing in KeyStone. It has trusts, it has OAuth1a... | 22:47 | |
| julienvey | https://github.com/openstack/identity-api/blob/master/v3/src/markdown/identity-api-v3-os-oauth1-ext.md#create-request-token-post-os-oauth1request_token | 22:48 |
| devkulkarni | paulmo: we need chained trusts. ks is missing that right now. | 22:48 |
| devkulkarni | julienvey: thanks! | 22:48 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld: yes, we could have an "unauthenticated" Environment per tenant where there is a trust token scoped to a mistral workflow, right? | 22:48 |
| asalkeld | I need to go take my boy to school... | 22:48 |
| adrian_otto | tanks asalkeld | 22:48 |
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| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: we have a whole pile of discussion topics for today | 22:48 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, trust tokens in their current form won't work | 22:48 |
| devkulkarni | adrian_otto: we can take some of them and continue for others next week? | 22:49 |
| adrian_otto | Language Packs, STI, Task Review | 22:49 |
| devkulkarni | btw, the chained trust discussion is done | 22:49 |
| adrian_otto | which are time sensitive, and which should we push? | 22:49 |
| devkulkarni | time sensitive is custom lang pack | 22:49 |
| adrian_otto | ok | 22:49 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Custom Language Pack Discussion | 22:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Custom Language Pack Discussion (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:50 | |
| adrian_otto | go | 22:50 |
| devkulkarni | I wanted to brain storm what is a custom lang pack and how would we go about implementing it.. | 22:50 |
| devkulkarni | noorul and I discussed some of it which is captured in an etherpad | 22:50 |
| adrian_otto | I have a concept of this | 22:50 |
| devkulkarni | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/custom-language-packs | 22:50 |
| adrian_otto | you register an app "type" by creating a language pack resource | 22:50 |
| adrian_otto | and that type has a Git Repo associated with it | 22:51 |
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| julienvey | a LP is basically is a glance image | 22:51 |
| adrian_otto | Solum will git clone that repo, and execute a well known script within it | 22:51 |
| devkulkarni | yes, and a custom one is an image which has custom tools/libraries installed | 22:51 |
| julienvey | so we miss only the builder to build the app with this LP ? | 22:52 |
| adrian_otto | that should run in the context of the related glance image | 22:52 |
| paulczar | is there a difference between an LP and a custom LP apart from who created and uploaded it ? | 22:52 |
| adrian_otto | that way a service provider can externally maintain a custom LP | 22:52 |
| adrian_otto | paulczar: I hope not. | 22:52 |
| devkulkarni | paulczar: I don't think so.. | 22:52 |
| paulczar | good :) | 22:52 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: we might need to revisit this next week | 22:53 |
| devkulkarni | okay.. I think this is a good discussion.. this is what I had in mind.. for want to time I suggest we continue next week | 22:53 |
| adrian_otto | or plan to follow up between now and then | 22:53 |
| devkulkarni | yep | 22:53 |
| adrian_otto | what are you blocked on? | 22:53 |
| devkulkarni | nothing specifically. | 22:54 |
| paulczar | we should require two entrypoints in the image a ‘build’ and a ‘run’ … probably need some way to specify if the build is ‘slug’ style or ‘whole image’ style | 22:54 |
| adrian_otto | ok | 22:54 |
| devkulkarni | just wanted to discuss what folks had in mind | 22:54 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Open Discussion | 22:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:54 | |
| adrian_otto | I will move remaining topics to next week's agenda for us | 22:54 |
| tomblank1 | devkulkarni: we can always start up a ML discussion as well if needed before next week | 22:54 |
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| devkulkarni | sounds good adrian_otto | 22:55 |
| devkulkarni | In 5 minutes, what do we need for this "Nova docker driver improvements" :) | 22:55 |
| adrian_otto | so an LP could either be an image that has a well known script inside of it that the instance executes | 22:55 |
| devkulkarni | Its here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/HighLevelRoadmap | 22:55 |
| datsun180b | devkulkarni: improve it | 22:55 |
| * datsun180b dusts off hands | 22:55 | |
| devkulkarni | ha ha | 22:55 |
| adrian_otto | or an external repo with a well known script in it | 22:55 |
| adrian_otto | nova-docker has weak Glance integration which must be addressed | 22:57 |
| paulczar | devkulkarni: support for environment variables, a default set with the image + a lightweight version of cloud-init that turns user-data into env variable to override | 22:57 |
| adrian_otto | it needs a sensible multi-tenancy setup. | 22:57 |
| adrian_otto | one way is to bypass the glance-registry and access glance directly | 22:57 |
| adrian_otto | s/glance-registry/docker-registry service/ | 22:57 |
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| paulczar | devkulkarni: ability to specify custom docker registry endpoint per image/user/tenant/whatever | 22:58 |
| devkulkarni | is this all being done by the openstack-containers team? why is it on solum's roadmap as a list of deliverables? | 22:58 |
| devkulkarni | thanks adrian_otto and paulczar for details | 22:59 |
| adrian_otto | it can move from our roadmap when other teams commit to them as deliverables. | 22:59 |
| adrian_otto | but until them, we see them as our concerns | 22:59 |
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| paulczar | devkulkarni: ability to register an empty image in glance which has enough details for nova-docker to go and fetch the image from provided registry | 22:59 |
| devkulkarni | okay. makes sense. | 22:59 |
| adrian_otto | ok, time has elapsed for our meeting | 22:59 |
| adrian_otto | thanks everyone for attending | 22:59 |
| tomblank1 | and we (Solum team) may have to actually develop that code | 22:59 |
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| adrian_otto | tomblank1: yes | 22:59 |
| adrian_otto | #endmeeting | 22:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zuul is offline due to an operational issue; ETA 2200 UTC." | 22:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 27 22:59:56 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-05-27-22.00.html | 22:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-05-27-22.00.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-05-27-22.00.log.html | 23:00 |
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