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| baoli | #startmeeting PCI Passthrough | 13:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 13:00:58 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is baoli. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: PCI Passthrough)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'pci_passthrough' | 13:01 |
| baoli | Hi | 13:01 |
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| irenab | hi | 13:02 |
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| irenab | baoli: how is going? | 13:04 |
| baoli | irenab: Hi. Hope you had a good time in Paris last week. | 13:04 |
| irenab | baoli: thanks, it was great | 13:04 |
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| irenab | baoli: you did a good job with the spec, it seems quite finished. Now need cores to appove | 13:05 |
| baoli | irenab, thanks. I reached out to John a couple of times. | 13:05 |
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| baoli | I also kept updating it based on comments | 13:05 |
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| baoli | One comment from Yongli. He still wanted to include product_id/vendor_id in the stats key for sriov networking | 13:06 |
| beagles | I've asked Dan Berrange to have a look... Russell is back from pto, so he'll probably be taking a look as well (if he hasn't already) | 13:06 |
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| baoli | beagles, thanks. | 13:07 |
| irenab | baoli: I am still struggeling with neutron pieces of our Md, but hope will upload the code soon, working with your POC code for now. | 13:07 |
| baoli | I addressed Dan's comments | 13:07 |
| baoli | He seemed to be happy with that | 13:07 |
| beagles | cool | 13:07 |
| baoli | irenab, cool | 13:07 |
| heyongli | hello | 13:07 |
| baoli | Yongli, Hi | 13:08 |
| irenab | heyongli: hi | 13:08 |
| baoli | Yongli, I'd like to discuss your comments in the spec a little bit | 13:08 |
| heyongli | sure | 13:08 |
| baoli | Yongli, in the spec, I proposed to for tagged entries, use the "tags only' as stats keys. And You wanted to include product_id/vendor_id in the stats key as well. | 13:09 |
| baoli | I'd like to hear options from other folks on that. | 13:09 |
| heyongli | i wont to block IT. just best to have | 13:09 |
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| irenab | any idea why bp is now depends on another one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/pci-passthrough-sriov (look at the bottom) | 13:11 |
| baoli | irenab, do you mean the bottom two reviews? | 13:13 |
| heyongli | nfv sub team? | 13:13 |
| rpothier | I added the review for this, but I made a mistake and it but two reviews | 13:13 |
| baoli | oh, you mean the numa scheduling? | 13:13 |
| irenab | baoli: yes | 13:14 |
| irenab | does dependedncy means that till numa is not merged it will block pci code to be merged? | 13:14 |
| heyongli | I am afraid it is | 13:15 |
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| irenab | any idea why it requirs bp dependency? | 13:16 |
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| baoli | It seemed that Adrian added it. We can ask him | 13:18 |
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| heyongli | should be nvf | 13:19 |
| irenab | I am probably missing something here (but went trhough log of the last meeting :-)). It does not seem to be correct to put dependency without discussing it .... | 13:19 |
| irenab | by the way NFV is not the only consumer for NFV | 13:19 |
| irenab | for SR-IOV | 13:20 |
| beagles | I agree, doesn't seem right | 13:20 |
| irenab | we must to chat with Adrian to see if its really requires dependency | 13:20 |
| baoli | let's send an email to the mailing list | 13:20 |
| heyongli | nfv sub team put this spec in its scope | 13:21 |
| baoli | asking for clarification | 13:21 |
| irenab | baoli: +1 | 13:21 |
| sadasu | baoli: agreed | 13:22 |
| sadasu | if this topic is done I had a few questions for Irena | 13:22 |
| irenab | sadasu: sure | 13:23 |
| baoli | Ok, so everybody is ok with adding the product_id/vendor_id into the stats key? | 13:23 |
| heyongli | good to me | 13:23 |
| baoli | all right, let's move on | 13:24 |
| irenab | baoli: I didn't see the need when using your POC, but OK with it | 13:24 |
| sadasu | baoli: seems like there might be a NUMA is making changes to the scheduling filters for PCI devices | 13:24 |
| heyongli | sadsau sound reasonable | 13:25 |
| baoli | sadasu, I'm not sure if pci devices are association with particular numa cpu cells. | 13:25 |
| sadasu | I just skimmed through their BP, but I have a feeling that baoli's BP and this NUMA BP might be modifying the same areas of code | 13:25 |
| baoli | association/associated | 13:25 |
| baoli | So we need to understand it. But I don't believe our BP is depending on it. | 13:26 |
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| irenab | baoli: agree | 13:26 |
| heyongli | baoli numa is important to sriov for nfv Sub team | 13:26 |
| sadasu | baoli: not sure | 13:26 |
| sadasu | here is a line in their BP: The NUMA filter (in development) will be extended to query the nova.pci_devices to check on the permitted NUMA allocation. | 13:27 |
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| sadasu | ok...so they probably don't worry about the PCI device allocation itself | 13:27 |
| sadasu | lets see how it plays out in the ML | 13:28 |
| baoli | #action send query to Adrian and mailing list | 13:28 |
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| sadasu | regarding product_id/vendor_id, how much will it affect baoli's current implementation? | 13:29 |
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| sadasu | the currect POC code from baoli seems to be doing fine without this change | 13:29 |
| heyongli | sadasu i believe its small | 13:29 |
| heyongli | sadasu it works but this is best to have | 13:30 |
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| heyongli | and no big impact | 13:30 |
| baoli | sadasu, with them added, a user can allocate the device in a few ways: use product_id/vendor_id in the pci alias, use the physical network tag in the alias, plus the way for SR-IOV networking | 13:30 |
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| sadasu | ok | 13:31 |
| baoli | heyongli, right? | 13:31 |
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| heyongli | yeah i believe from alias is not the major concern. most of this drive by image constrain | 13:32 |
| sadasu | I am testing only the use case where physical network is specified in the tag | 13:33 |
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| heyongli | that is enough for my understand | 13:34 |
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| sadasu | other than the UT support that will be provided by baoli, is anyone else testing the other tag types? | 13:35 |
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| heyongli | from alias allocation not use it as nuetron port | 13:35 |
| sadasu | heyongli: agreed | 13:36 |
| baoli | Heyongli, I don't think that we have a clear understanding to that requirement yet. But I think it is not a big deal to include them in the stats key. So if you insist, I'll include them, and let's move on. | 13:36 |
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| heyongli | thanks | 13:37 |
| baoli | sadasu, you want to go ahead with your questions? | 13:37 |
| sadasu | just wanted to spend a couple of mins to see if this has impact on things other than baoli's coding/UT effort | 13:37 |
| sadasu | yes, my question was regarding security groups | 13:38 |
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| sadasu | with SR-IOV ports we cannot apply security groups on the host | 13:39 |
| sadasu | how are other vendors dealing with this issue? | 13:39 |
| irenab | sadasu: I am currently going to declair in MD that not going to support security groups | 13:39 |
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| sadasu | yes, in the absence of security groups, does your switch that is located on the adapter able to do something like ACLs | 13:40 |
| irenab | sadsu: yes, but not the full list of options as can be done with OVS/iptables | 13:40 |
| irenab | it will require another iteration to enable what can be done | 13:41 |
| sadasu | irenab: can u explain a bit more? | 13:41 |
| sadasu | do you mean another iteration of your driver to be able to turn on these features? | 13:42 |
| irenab | sadasu: for security groups there is both ingress and egress ACLs, current version of the adapter can do only egress | 13:42 |
| sadasu | irenab: ok...thanks for clarifying | 13:43 |
| irenab | sadasu: yes, you got my point. It will require another iteration of the MD + agent to support security groups | 13:43 |
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| baoli | sounds like that we have more work down the road | 13:43 |
| sadasu | lack of security group support is raising quite a red flag on my MD | 13:43 |
| irenab | and some way to reject unsipported combinations | 13:43 |
| sadasu | baoli: +1 | 13:43 |
| irenab | sadasu: your plans with MD to manage it on switch? | 13:44 |
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| sadasu | yes, but my MD does not talk to a switch | 13:44 |
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| sadasu | need to implement it as part of MD for the switch | 13:45 |
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| sadasu | in the next iteration | 13:45 |
| irenab | actually, I thought on some mixture of MDs on for Host side and other for Switch side, but as you said there a lot of work down the road | 13:45 |
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| irenab | sadsu: so seems we are alined | 13:46 |
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| sadasu | irenab: yes.... we are :-) | 13:47 |
| sadasu | also there is discussion on support of multi-tenant networks | 13:47 |
| sadasu | which we are not supporting again in this release | 13:47 |
| sadasu | I would like to add a section on our wiki for future work...and start putting all this there | 13:48 |
| irenab | by multi tenant networks what do you mean? | 13:48 |
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| yongli | lost connection | 13:48 |
| irenab | sadasu: +1 for further items on wiki | 13:48 |
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| baoli | sadasu: +1. please update the existing list on the meeting wiki | 13:49 |
| irenab | I think we also must follow the NFV sub-team decisions, to eliminate conflicts and duplications | 13:49 |
| sadasu | irenab: multi-segment networks and not multi-tenant networks | 13:50 |
| sadasu | baoli: will do | 13:50 |
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| baoli | irenab, +1. | 13:50 |
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| sadasu | irenab: +1 about NFV work | 13:50 |
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| baoli | sadasu, the multi-segment network support (or multi-provider extension) is another further work. | 13:50 |
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| sadasu | baoli: correct, will also add that to the list | 13:51 |
| irenab | sadasu: baoli: agree. We must land some initial code during Juno | 13:51 |
| baoli | There are two code reviews posted, which you can find from the BP whtieboard | 13:51 |
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| irenab | baoli: thanks, saw it today and will start review | 13:52 |
| baoli | irenab, thanks! | 13:52 |
| sadasu | baoli: cool...will take a look | 13:53 |
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| baoli | appreciate everyone's time reviewing the patches. | 13:53 |
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| irenab | any other topics to discuss today? | 13:54 |
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| baoli | That's all from my side | 13:57 |
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| irenab | great, thanks. Lets cross fingers to get spec approved by next meeting :-) | 13:58 |
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| baoli | I need to attend the nova weekly meeting on Thursday | 13:58 |
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| irenab | baoli: good luck! | 13:59 |
| baoli | Thanks everyone. See you next week | 13:59 |
| heyongli | bye | 13:59 |
| baoli | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 13:59:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-06-10-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-06-10-13.00.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/pci_passthrough/2014/pci_passthrough.2014-06-10-13.00.log.html | 13:59 |
| irenab | see you next week | 13:59 |
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| kgriffs | #startmeeting marconi | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 15:01:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kgriffs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'marconi' | 15:01 |
| kgriffs | #topic roll call | 15:01 |
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| kgriffs | o/ | 15:01 |
| alcabrera | o/ | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:01 | |
| sriram | \o/ | 15:01 |
| malini1 | o/ | 15:01 |
| flaper87 | o. | 15:01 |
| abettadapur | O | 15:01 |
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| malini1 | ? | 15:01 |
| sriram | are we approaching the land of regexes? :P | 15:02 |
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| tjanczuk | hello | 15:02 |
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| flaper87 | we've got a bunch of things to discuss today and I'd really get to the unified API discussion | 15:03 |
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| tjanczuk | +1 | 15:03 |
| flaper87 | lets move forward | 15:03 |
| kgriffs | yep. that's the big item | 15:03 |
| kgriffs | #topic review actions from last time | 15:03 |
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| kgriffs | megan_w to check trademarks for our shortlist of names | 15:03 |
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| kgriffs | megan_w: u there? | 15:04 |
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| kgriffs | ok | 15:04 |
| kgriffs | let me pretend to be megan | 15:05 |
| kgriffs | "Our trademark counsel did a search and recommended Zaqar or Naav as the best potential names with low-to-moderate risk. Tamtam came up as a moderate risk based on TamTamy, but we could still likely pursue it because the software is quite distinguishable. Both Raven and Copper pose a higher risk, because they are registered to companies in dev / cloud spaces (Ravenflow and Copper.io respectively)." | 15:05 |
| kgriffs | "Do you think your team would be happy moving forward with Zaqar, Naav or Tamtam?" | 15:05 |
| kgriffs | do we want to pick one of these or do another round of brainstorming? | 15:05 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: can we do a vote now? | 15:05 |
| flaper87 | I'm happy to vote now and move this forward | 15:06 |
| tjanczuk | +1 | 15:06 |
| flaper87 | you could set a vote poll and use each one of those names as options | 15:06 |
| tjanczuk | (do I get a vote?) | 15:06 |
| malini1 | Can someone enlighten me real quick on how to pronounce Zaqar? | 15:06 |
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| malini1 | tjanczuk: everybody does | 15:06 |
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| kgriffs | malini1: I think it is za'kar ? | 15:07 |
| vkmc | o- | 15:07 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:07 |
| flaper87 | but we only take under consideration kgriffs vote because this is democracy | 15:07 |
| tjanczuk | malini1: thanks. and yes, I think that is one problem with Zaqar and Naav - it needs to come with spelling instructions | 15:07 |
| malini1 | hmmm….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaqar | 15:07 |
| flaper87 | muahahha muahahha muahahahhaa | 15:07 |
| tjanczuk | Oh, I am used that kind ;) | 15:07 |
| malini1 | lets vote | 15:07 |
| flaper87 | but pronouncing tamtam is fun, it seems like we're selling chume-gums | 15:08 |
| kgriffs | yes, the pronunciation/spelling did concern be a little too | 15:08 |
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| tjanczuk | aren't we? | 15:08 |
| malini1 | I tried to remember tamtam & it ended up as dumdum in my brain | 15:08 |
| flaper87 | tjanczuk: nope, just gummy bears and pop-tarts | 15:08 |
| flaper87 | :D | 15:08 |
| flaper87 | malini1: lol | 15:08 |
| malini1 | we need an easily memorizable name | 15:08 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: voooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooote | 15:08 |
| kgriffs | what did tamtam mean again? | 15:09 |
| sriram | I'd go with Naav ;) | 15:09 |
| flaper87 | I like Naav because it's easy to write, short and it's from a language I don't know | 15:09 |
| tjanczuk | tamtam is a kind of a drum that was used to send signals before internet. OK, well before internet. | 15:09 |
| flaper87 | and all those are scientifically provable points | 15:10 |
| flaper87 | tjanczuk: LOL | 15:10 |
| kgriffs | #startvote Zaqar, Naav, Tamtam, Abstain | 15:10 |
| malini1 | kgriffs: tamtam is a drum, rt tjanczuk ? | 15:10 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 15:10 |
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| * kgriffs can't remember the syntax | 15:10 | |
| kgriffs | one moment | 15:10 |
| malini1 | kgriffs: https://www.google.com/search?q=tamtam&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=6R-XU_SGNMqNyATQuoKgCA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=586 | 15:10 |
| tjanczuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drums_in_communication | 15:10 |
| kgriffs | ah, forgot the question | 15:10 |
| kgriffs | silly me | 15:10 |
| kgriffs | #startvote What should Marconi's new name be? Zaqar, Naav, Tamtam, Abstain | 15:11 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: What should Marconi's new name be? Valid vote options are Zaqar, Naav, Tamtam, Abstain. | 15:11 |
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| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 15:11 |
| flaper87 | #vote Naav | 15:11 |
| alcabrera | #vote Naav | 15:11 |
| tjanczuk | #vote tamtam | 15:11 |
| sriram | #vote Naav | 15:11 |
| abettadapur | #vote Naav | 15:11 |
| kgriffs | #vote Naav | 15:11 |
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| prashanthr_ | Naav since i suggested it ;) | 15:11 |
| vkmc | #vote Zaqar | 15:11 |
| tjanczuk | democracy at work... | 15:11 |
| malini1 | #vote tamtam | 15:11 |
| vkmc | (it's epic) | 15:12 |
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| flaper87 | prashanthr_: you've to use the #vote OPTION syntax | 15:12 |
| prashanthr_ | #vote Naav | 15:12 |
| flaper87 | Giving talks about Naav will be fun | 15:12 |
| kgriffs | closing the vote in 10 seconds | 15:13 |
| tjanczuk | You will now have two projects on your resume ;) | 15:13 |
| malini1 | Naav is tongue in my mothertongue :D | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 9 | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 8 | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 7 | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 6 | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 5 | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 4 | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 3 | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 2 | 15:13 |
| kgriffs | #endvote | 15:13 |
| openstack | Voted on "What should Marconi's new name be?" Results are | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 1 | 15:13 |
| openstack | Zaqar (1): vkmc | 15:13 |
| kgriffs | race condition | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | 0 | 15:13 |
| kgriffs | ;) | 15:13 |
| openstack | Naav (6): alcabrera, kgriffs, abettadapur, sriram, flaper87, prashanthr_ | 15:13 |
| openstack | Tamtam (2): malini1, tjanczuk | 15:13 |
| malini1 | we are Project Naav now ! | 15:13 |
| sriram | \____/ -> Naav :P | 15:13 |
| tjanczuk | Amen. | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | and we have a new name, Naav | 15:13 |
| kgriffs | so it can mean boat or tongue? | 15:14 |
| * sriram needs better ascii art | 15:14 | |
| flaper87 | now, to change everything | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | oh boy | 15:14 |
| malini1 | quick somebody update devstack | 15:14 |
| prashanthr_ | Yaay :) | 15:14 |
| sriram | LOL | 15:14 |
| vkmc | :D | 15:14 |
| flaper87 | LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL | 15:14 |
| prashanthr_ | sriram: LOl quick art | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | we will start the renaming next week after j-1 is cut | 15:14 |
| flaper87 | devstack, channel, mailing list tags, email filters, code, client, | 15:14 |
| flaper87 | AAHHHHH FUck trademarks, lets keep Marconi | 15:14 |
| malini1 | tempest | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | #agreed Naav is the new Marconi | 15:15 |
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| tjanczuk | Seriously: I would consider the name change along with announcing the outcome of the [un]unificiation of APIs. | 15:15 |
| flaper87 | #agreed Marconi is the old Naav | 15:15 |
| flaper87 | ^^ | 15:15 |
| kgriffs | tjanczuk: noted | 15:15 |
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| kgriffs | let's come up with a game plan for Naav at next week's meeting | 15:15 |
| malini1 | arent we also changing the project/program name - whatever tht thing is which is currently 'queuing' ? | 15:15 |
| flaper87 | malini1: nope, just the codename for now | 15:15 |
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| kgriffs | malini1: possibly, but would be later | 15:16 |
| malini1 | ok | 15:16 |
| flaper87 | next topic ? | 15:16 |
| kgriffs | ok, next | 15:16 |
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| kgriffs | flaper87: you took the words right out of my keyboard1 | 15:16 |
| kgriffs | #topic specs | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:16 | |
| flaper87 | :D | 15:16 |
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| kgriffs | How should we approach the proposed specs process? | 15:17 |
| flaper87 | so ? | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | :D | 15:18 |
| kgriffs | go all in for j-2 | 15:18 |
| kgriffs | try it with one spec in j-2 | 15:18 |
| kgriffs | put it off until next cycle | 15:18 |
| malini1 | lets try one in j-2 | 15:18 |
| kgriffs | or | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | I would prefer not adopting the spec process until we reach the graduation point | 15:18 |
| kgriffs | require it for all new feature proposals | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | TBH | 15:18 |
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| flaper87 | Doing so means that we need to convert all blueprints that have been approved for J into specs | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | submit them, review them etc | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | this all will happen *after* we setup the repo, gate etc for our specs repo | 15:19 |
| kgriffs | I had thought about trying it with one in j-2 | 15:19 |
| flaper87 | and we've pretty ambitious goals for J | 15:19 |
| malini1 | I said let's try one, so we have a better understanding of the pros/cons | 15:19 |
| kgriffs | but... would it be a pain to do most bp's one way, and one a different way. | 15:19 |
| kgriffs | flaper87 has a good point | 15:19 |
| kgriffs | we may not have bandwidth for implementing a new process right now | 15:20 |
| kgriffs | let's vote | 15:20 |
| flaper87 | We can start setting up the whole thing in background (I can help with that) but lets not make J depend on it | 15:20 |
| sriram | +1 | 15:20 |
| malini1 | anybody has insights into if it'll become a grad req? | 15:21 |
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| flaper87 | All new blueprints would go through that process but not existing ones and it's certainly not blocking our progress nor occupping our bandwidth | 15:21 |
| flaper87 | malini1: not yet but we can ask | 15:21 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: yes, let's be sure to bring that up | 15:21 |
| kgriffs | so... | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | I don't think so, yet. It started as an experiment so I think we should give the process more time before making it a grad request | 15:22 |
| kgriffs | require new ones to go through the process, but not existing ones? | 15:22 |
| malini1 | kgriffs: starting when? | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | also, the important thing is to have things setup for future blueprints | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | Lets do this, I'll take care of it | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | I'll start setting up things for the marconi-spec | 15:23 |
| flaper87 | in background | 15:23 |
| kgriffs | ok, let's start requiring new bps for j-2 | 15:23 |
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| kgriffs | sorry | 15:23 |
| flaper87 | slowly and without requiring intervention from other folks in the team | 15:23 |
| kgriffs | specs for new bps in j-2 | 15:23 |
| malini1 | can we do a pilot on 1 or2 bps, so we don't come up with any absurd template ? | 15:23 |
| flaper87 | once that's done, we'll sync up again and decide | 15:23 |
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| kgriffs | so, if you have an idea, don't register a blueprint. submit a spec from now on | 15:23 |
| kgriffs | malini1: mmm, good point | 15:23 |
| flaper87 | malini1: I think we can follow other projects templates | 15:23 |
| kgriffs | we did talk about using template to keep things light and learn as we go | 15:24 |
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| malini1 | flaper87: some of the other projects have really detailed specs | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: we may want to mark parts as optional or something if they become too time-consuming. | 15:24 |
| malini1 | I wud hate to write down all tht info | 15:24 |
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| flaper87 | most of the parts in those templates are optional | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | anyway, we can start with another project's template and adjust it for our needs | 15:24 |
| flaper87 | it's up to us, really | 15:24 |
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| kgriffs | ok, so for now let's just get the plumbing done and we can work on a template | 15:25 |
| flaper87 | it must evolve overtime, but I'd really hate to waste time on this when we've real code to write | 15:25 |
| malini1 | We should keep it really light weight, so it add value & doesnt become another process in the way | 15:25 |
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| kgriffs | malini1: we might use the Redis Pool as an experimental spec | 15:25 |
| malini1 | flaper87: +1 | 15:25 |
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| kgriffs | alcabrera: ^^ | 15:25 |
| kgriffs | ok | 15:25 |
| sriram | good point. | 15:25 |
| kgriffs | let me drop an action and let's move on | 15:25 |
| kgriffs | #action flaper87 to do the plumbing for specs | 15:26 |
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| alcabrera | redis pool sounds like a reasonable thing to experiment w/ spec-ing | 15:26 |
| flaper87 | topic++ | 15:27 |
| kgriffs | #topic FYI: Keystone token changes | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "FYI: Keystone token changes (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:27 | |
| kgriffs | this is a quick one | 15:27 |
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| kgriffs | just wanted to make everyone aware of the work that is going on around keystone auth tokens | 15:28 |
| kgriffs | http://markmail.org/message/2w7xzjq6i7mfcpez#query:+page:1+mid:7afzhoztzla4jgr3+state:results | 15:28 |
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| tjanczuk | 8K tokens? Is Keystone moving its database to cookies? | 15:28 |
| kgriffs | basically, UUID tokens are probably going away, and so our HTTP request size is going to go up a little bit. Keystone team is trying to keep the size under control. | 15:29 |
| flaper87 | that work is quite important for us | 15:29 |
| malini1 | yayyy!! | 15:29 |
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| flaper87 | they also mentioned they're trying to shrink it | 15:29 |
| kgriffs | they are doing some algorithmic things to shrink it | 15:29 |
| kgriffs | also compression | 15:29 |
| tjanczuk | One more reason to look into websockets | 15:29 |
| sriram | how much overhead would it add? | 15:29 |
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| kgriffs | I'm a little fuzzy on whether the keystone middleware will have to do decompression on each request, but I suspect so, and I've been encouraging the use of snappy or lz4 for that... we'll see | 15:30 |
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| kgriffs | tjanczuk: speaking of websockets, we will need to periodically check for revocation and token expiration | 15:30 |
| kgriffs | anyway, something to start noodling on | 15:31 |
| kgriffs | reply to the email thread with your thoughts/questions/concerns | 15:31 |
| tjanczuk | even so I expect it to be less of an issue than doing to for every HTTP request | 15:31 |
| kgriffs | tjanczuk: yep | 15:31 |
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| kgriffs | or we can just wait for HTTP 2.0 | 15:32 |
| * kgriffs ducks | 15:32 | |
| flaper87 | LOL | 15:32 |
| kgriffs | #topic Discuss GET messages on a non existing queue returns 204 | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss GET messages on a non existing queue returns 204 (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:32 | |
| tjanczuk | or quantum computin | 15:32 |
| kgriffs | vkmc, alcabrera ^^^ | 15:32 |
| alcabrera | ah | 15:33 |
| alcabrera | this bug | 15:33 |
| alcabrera | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1243752 | 15:33 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1243752 in marconi "GET messages on a non existing queue returns 204" [Low,In progress] | 15:33 |
| vkmc | ! | 15:33 |
| alcabrera | iirc | 15:33 |
| tjanczuk | what would you expect to see? 404? | 15:33 |
| alcabrera | the question for this was - how do we want to address this for v1.0 vs. v1.1 | 15:33 |
| sriram | yes, it should be a 404 | 15:33 |
| alcabrera | I think v1.0 expects a 404, and v1.1 expects a 204 | 15:33 |
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| flaper87 | yup, I think just v1.0 should return 404 | 15:34 |
| alcabrera | cool | 15:34 |
| flaper87 | in v1.1 queues are lazy so, 204 seems correct | 15:34 |
| vkmc | ok, so we have to change the behaviour in v1.0 and keep it in v1.1 | 15:34 |
| alcabrera | so we need to double check v1.0, fix it if it doesn't return 404, and then close off the bug. :) | 15:35 |
| malini1 | we decided to keep the 204 in 1.0 due to performance concerns | 15:35 |
| alcabrera | ah | 15:35 |
| tjanczuk | you mean one extra request to check if queue exists? | 15:35 |
| malini1 | IIRC we changed it to 204 from 404 after a benchmark | 15:36 |
| kgriffs | with my caching patch, that will help perf | 15:36 |
| malini1 | tjanczuk: yes | 15:36 |
| vkmc | it's semantically correct for v1.1 to return a 204, and also more efficient | 15:36 |
| vkmc | I'm a bit concerned about tests | 15:36 |
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| vkmc | for this case | 15:36 |
| flaper87 | Should we worried about this v1.0 detail ? | 15:36 |
| flaper87 | worry* | 15:36 |
| kgriffs | great question | 15:37 |
| malini1 | flaper87: I dont think we should | 15:37 |
| flaper87 | I mean, v1.1 will be out not far from now, the client semantics will remain the same | 15:37 |
| flaper87 | ok, then lets close it as won't fix | 15:37 |
| kgriffs | TBH, nobody has complained that I am aware of. | 15:37 |
| peoplemerge1 | impact to existing clients? | 15:37 |
| tjanczuk | Does this really boil down to whether you think of queues as first class citizens? If first class -> 404. If not -> 204 is OK. | 15:37 |
| kgriffs | peoplemerge1: basically, if a queue does not exist, we don't give them a hint to go create it first | 15:38 |
| kgriffs | we just pretend it exists | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | tjanczuk: that's part of the reason, yes. | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | but I don't think that's enough of a reason to change v1.0 | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | I'd just focus on v1.1 unless there's a critical issue to fix in v.10 | 15:38 |
| tjanczuk | I was thinking more of vNext | 15:38 |
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| kgriffs | ok, I am going to close this as won't fix unless anyone vehemently disagrees. | 15:39 |
| alcabrera | works for me | 15:39 |
| vkmc | works for me too | 15:39 |
| malini1 | This one keeps reappearing every 2 months :-S | 15:39 |
| kgriffs | malini1: in what way? are we getting complaints? | 15:39 |
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| malini1 | kgriffs: it keeps coming back from somebody in the team | 15:40 |
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| malini1 | but not from any users | 15:40 |
| kgriffs | ok | 15:40 |
| kgriffs | #agreed close bug #1243752 as won't fix | 15:40 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1243752 in marconi "GET messages on a non existing queue returns 204" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243752 | 15:40 |
| flaper87 | topic++ | 15:40 |
| vkmc | we could mark it as a won't fix and add the reasons in the bug report | 15:40 |
| sriram | yeah, I had some questions on this when I worked on lazy queue create. | 15:40 |
| vkmc | just to keep track of it in the future | 15:41 |
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| kgriffs | speaking of that, and the fact that it would be sort of impossible to return 404 with an AMQP driver... | 15:41 |
| malini1 | On the same note, does it make sense to keep 'check queue existence' API with lazy queue in place for 1.1 ? | 15:41 |
| malini1 | sorry for jumping 2 topics ahead in the agenda | 15:42 |
| flaper87 | malini1: probably not | 15:42 |
| kgriffs | malini1: probably not | 15:42 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: seriously ? | 15:42 |
| kgriffs | kgriffs: seriously? | 15:42 |
| tjanczuk | it is possible with AMQP 0.0 | 15:42 |
| kgriffs | oops | 15:42 |
| tjanczuk | 0.9 | 15:42 |
| malini1 | kgriffs & flaper87 are in the same firmware version | 15:42 |
| * kgriffs can't let them know my secret | 15:42 | |
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| flaper87 | ok, lets move on | 15:43 |
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| * kgriffs curses quantum entanglement | 15:43 | |
| kgriffs | #topic Reconsidering the unified API model | 15:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reconsidering the unified API model (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 15:43 | |
| tjanczuk | ununify! | 15:43 |
| kgriffs | so... | 15:43 |
| kgriffs | a nice light topic | 15:44 |
| tjanczuk | I left my thoughts on the ML yesteday | 15:44 |
| flaper87 | I loved Mark's email | 15:44 |
| tjanczuk | What were the key points? | 15:44 |
| kgriffs | tjanczuk: if I understand correctly, you proposed an Option C - scrap the feed semantics and just do claims? | 15:44 |
| tjanczuk | No, I proposed to make the queue semantics the "MUST", and anything else a "MAY" | 15:45 |
| flaper87 | Mark's email: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/037108.html | 15:45 |
| tjanczuk | The exact mechanics of "MAY" are TBD | 15:45 |
| kgriffs | oic | 15:45 |
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| kgriffs | I think Gordon had some good questions | 15:46 |
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| flaper87 | we've 10mins left so, lets start throwing something out there | 15:46 |
| tjanczuk | I am not sure I see how Mark's point is relevant to this unification topic? | 15:46 |
| kgriffs | and I liked Mark's thoughts about "don't do it just because you feel pressured and you don't really see any value in it" | 15:46 |
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| flaper87 | tjanczuk: it's not relevant to the unification topic but to how much we want to change our API/product based on the store driver | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | what benefits would all that bring? | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | do we really need it? etc etc etc | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | all those are valid questions | 15:47 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: I think you made a good point that we don't know enough yet to make a good decision. | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | I really really really think we need to sort out what our base features are | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | what we want to deliver as part of marconi in terms of API | 15:48 |
| kgriffs | personally, I think we need to see POC for AMQP and redis, do some benchmarks and see how they affect the api | 15:48 |
| tjanczuk | I thought the unification topic is valid on its own, regardless of how many drivers Marconi (NaaV) aspires to support? | 15:48 |
| flaper87 | and what we want to kee as optional | 15:48 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: agreed | 15:48 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: you around? | 15:48 |
| flaper87 | are you reading this? | 15:48 |
| kgriffs | tjanczuk: I feel like they are interrelated. Since once of the pressures for splitting the API is the fact that it can't all be supported by AMQP | 15:48 |
| kgriffs | splitting/reducing | 15:49 |
| flaper87 | I think our current API is valid as is to provide useful features and cover several scenarios. I'm not saying it is perfect, nor that we shouldn't change it | 15:49 |
| flaper87 | I'm saying that we need to have more information and experience to do that | 15:49 |
| kgriffs | yes | 15:49 |
| flaper87 | Julien's and Doug's suggestions were good too | 15:49 |
| kgriffs | one more point | 15:49 |
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| prashanthr_ | kgriffs: Sure we can have a POC. | 15:50 |
| malini1 | we are running out of time | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | actually, reiterating what flaper87 said earlier | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | first, we must decide whether we want to simplify. Do we want to continue to support multiple messaging patterns? | 15:51 |
| tjanczuk | I think that is exactly the top question to ask. | 15:51 |
| malini1 | sorry my brain interpreted 11:49 as 11:59, ignore my comment | 15:51 |
| kgriffs | second, if we do, do we continue striving to do that by affordances, or by doing things that are more prescriptive, such as implementing the notion of exchanges | 15:52 |
| kgriffs | the feeds portion of the API was designed to work at the level of affordances, meaning, here are some basic semantics that let you do several different things | 15:52 |
| kgriffs | however, it can be difficult to map that to a broker such as AMQP | 15:53 |
| tjanczuk | In general the broader the surface, the narrower the implementation choices. | 15:53 |
| kgriffs | which brings us to the second question; what does support AMQP buy us? | 15:53 |
| tjanczuk | Currently the only pragmatic implementation choices are DB based. | 15:53 |
| kgriffs | tjanczuk: correct | 15:53 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: note that this is not only true for AMQP | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | but lets use it as the reference | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | since it's the one we're working on | 15:54 |
| tjanczuk | To me AMQP boils down to the benefit of being able to use backends folks already use and know how to operate. The protocol is really insubstantial. | 15:54 |
| kgriffs | but I am not familiar with every broker out there, so we could be wrong | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | tjanczuk: I agree | 15:54 |
| tjanczuk | (There may also be perf benefits, but that remains to be seen). | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | I think I mentioned this in the thread too | 15:54 |
| kgriffs | well, sure, but many people also already know how to operate NoSQL | 15:54 |
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| tjanczuk | AGPL | 15:55 |
| flaper87 | lets also mention we bring something to those brokers too (an easier way to scale(TM)) | 15:55 |
| kgriffs | AGPL is a good point. Hence our experiment with Redis | 15:55 |
| flaper87 | that said, do we think this is enough of a reason to change the API ? | 15:55 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: good point; the scaling thing | 15:55 |
| flaper87 | regardless our choice, I think we should still pursue the POC road | 15:55 |
| tjanczuk | yes, that is a benefit, but currently it feels the cost is too large | 15:55 |
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| flaper87 | I don't think redis is a drop-in replacement for mongodb | 15:56 |
| flaper87 | :/ | 15:56 |
| tjanczuk | So I did the POC on Rabbit. With current shape of APIs it is impossible to use Rabbit. | 15:56 |
| kgriffs | (4 minutes) | 15:56 |
| tjanczuk | The APIs just don't map to Rabbit capabilities. | 15:56 |
| flaper87 | tjanczuk: what things are supported? | 15:56 |
| tjanczuk | Publishing a message. Currently you cannot even consume a message (at least until the POP change comes in). | 15:57 |
| vkmc | flaper87, I am! | 15:57 |
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| tjanczuk | I can do a more details summary on ML after this. | 15:57 |
| flaper87 | tjanczuk: that would be awesome | 15:57 |
| flaper87 | thanks a lot for your work there | 15:57 |
| flaper87 | I'll put more thoughts on this | 15:58 |
| flaper87 | As a closing question, based on latest feedback: Would kafka be a better choice for now? | 15:58 |
| tjanczuk | NP. I also had some thoughts on the "core" APIs and how they could be shaped such that one can support a broader set of backends (Mongo, AMQP etc). Anyone interested in seeing this? | 15:58 |
| kgriffs | better choice than AMQP? | 15:58 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yup | 15:58 |
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| flaper87 | as in, route efforts there and lets give AMQP more time | 15:59 |
| flaper87 | tjanczuk: yup | 15:59 |
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| flaper87 | ok, I think we ran out of time | 15:59 |
| kgriffs | TBH, more people have been asking for Kafka as a backend than Rabbit or Qpid, at least what I can tell | 16:00 |
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| tjanczuk | flapper87: check out this: https://github.com/tjanczuk/narconi#endpoint-synopsis | 16:00 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: let's do a little POC or something for kafka | 16:00 |
| flaper87 | it was a great meeting. I'd love to follow up on #openstack-marconi | 16:00 |
| kgriffs | final thought, then I will end meeting | 16:00 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: Ok, I can play with that | 16:00 |
| kgriffs | let's be careful not to let the tail wag the dog | 16:00 |
| kgriffs | the API *is* the product | 16:00 |
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| tjanczuk | +++1 | 16:01 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: EXACTLY! well, said | 16:01 |
| flaper87 | well said* | 16:01 |
| kgriffs | and several long-time openstacker's have cautioned us about trying to support too many backends | 16:01 |
| kgriffs | saying, it will distract us from our mission | 16:01 |
| kgriffs | that is all | 16:01 |
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| kgriffs | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 16:01:37 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| * flaper87 waves | 16:01 | |
| kgriffs | thanks everyone! | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2014/marconi.2014-06-10-15.01.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2014/marconi.2014-06-10-15.01.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2014/marconi.2014-06-10-15.01.log.html | 16:01 |
| kgriffs | someone got the minutes? | 16:01 |
| vkmc | thanks! | 16:01 |
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| malini1 | kgriffs: I have it | 16:02 |
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| iqbalmohomed | Hello all | 16:02 |
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| iqbalmohomed | Hmm ... this is not the solum meeting, is it | 16:05 |
| adrian_otto | no sir. | 16:05 |
| adrian_otto | This morning's OpenStack Containers Team meeting has been cancelled. We will have our next meeting on 2014-06-17 at UTC 2200. | 16:05 |
| paulmo | I believe it is at 22:00 UTC today | 16:05 |
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| iqbalmohomed | k ... thx | 16:05 |
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| adrian_otto | SOlum meeting happens at 2200 UTC today. | 16:05 |
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| ruhe | #startmeeting murano | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 17:02:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ruhe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'murano' | 17:02 |
| ativelkov_mobile | Will join you in ~ 5 mins | 17:02 |
| ruhe | sorry, i didn't update the agenda | 17:03 |
| tsufiev | hi there | 17:03 |
| dteselkin | Hi | 17:03 |
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| ruhe | we definetely need to discuss status of J1 | 17:03 |
| ruhe | what other topics we should discuss today? | 17:03 |
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| slagun | hi | 17:04 |
| katyafervent | hi What the blueprints have the most priority | 17:04 |
| sjmc7 | we have a number of open bugs we should try to reduce | 17:04 |
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| ruhe | ok. let's start with topic "status of J1" and cover blueprints, and pending reviews, and open bugs | 17:05 |
| ruhe | #topic status of juno-1 | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status of juno-1 (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:05 | |
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| btully | I'd like to discuss the app catalog index, specifically the "Latest Apps" section and get some clarification on what that section is supposed to do. Possibly renaming it, etx | 17:05 |
| btully | etc | 17:05 |
| ruhe | #link https://launchpad.net/murano/+milestone/juno-1 | 17:05 |
| ruhe | btully: ok. will trigger this topic also | 17:06 |
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| ruhe | it's just two days before we cut the development milestone j1 | 17:06 |
| ruhe | there are several BPs which aren't even started | 17:06 |
| tsufiev | seems that they should be moved to j2 | 17:07 |
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| ruhe | tsufiev: yep | 17:07 |
| btully | there is one of mine that is set to "Not started" but it's actually not the case | 17:07 |
| ativelkov | o/ | 17:07 |
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| ruhe | let's just make sure that these BPs are really "not started" | 17:07 |
| btully | if you recall I was asked to split up my original blueprint into several | 17:07 |
| ruhe | ativelkov: hey | 17:07 |
| serg_melikyan | o/ | 17:07 |
| btully | however in doing my dev work, it really doesn't make sense to split them up since they are dependent | 17:08 |
| ativelkov | sorry for being late folk: Moscow traffic becomes twice as slow when it starts rainign | 17:08 |
| ruhe | btully: can you give us a link? i'll clear the milestone from it | 17:08 |
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| tsufiev | ativelkov, lifehack = subway ;) | 17:08 |
| ruhe | is Ryan here? | 17:08 |
| ruhe | sjmc7: should i move https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/additional-author-information to J2? | 17:08 |
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| btully | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/murano-ui-horizon-patterns | 17:09 |
| sjmc7 | ruhe - we're trying to finish it | 17:09 |
| sjmc7 | it's in progress | 17:09 |
| ankurrr | yeah, in progress | 17:09 |
| ruhe | sjmc7: ok, can you please update the status? or should i do that? | 17:10 |
| sjmc7 | i'll do it | 17:10 |
| ruhe | sjmc7: thanks | 17:10 |
| btully | is the original blueprint with the dependencies. however the dependencies I feel should not be broken up as separate blueprints and instead should be committed on the same bp branch | 17:10 |
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| ruhe | btully: i don't have any problem with that. if you feel that it would be the right approach, then just do so | 17:11 |
| btully | super. thanks! | 17:11 |
| btully | so i'll set the above link milestone to j1 | 17:11 |
| ruhe | btully: does that mean, that we can clear all its child BPs? | 17:12 |
| tsufiev | btully, do you mean it'll be ready on June 12, which is a cut for J1? | 17:12 |
| tsufiev | it is pretty soon | 17:12 |
| btully | i'd have to look at each one and make sure the info is contained in the parent BP | 17:13 |
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| btully | that was the other q we had | 17:13 |
| btully | given the deadline of 6/12 and our time differences | 17:13 |
| btully | do we have a cutoff time for commits? | 17:13 |
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| btully | could use some clarification on that | 17:14 |
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| tsufiev | we have 2 days as an average approve time for UI commits (don't ask me how I calculate it) | 17:15 |
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| btully | ok, good to know | 17:15 |
| tsufiev | so it means that all blueprints not yet committed won't make it for J1 | 17:15 |
| ruhe | if we were an integrated project we would already block all the changes. and we definetely should do so. but in J1 it seems that we'll have just one day June12. also, i can do the release on June13 (by my local time) which will be late evening of June12 in US | 17:15 |
| btully | so if I have something to commit in a few hours will it make it in? | 17:15 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, agree, no need to be paranoid :) | 17:16 |
| ativelkov | Should be fine, yes | 17:16 |
| tsufiev | btully, absolutely | 17:16 |
| ruhe | btully: yes it will. also you'll have all day tomorrow | 17:16 |
| sjmc7 | we can try and review stuff more aggressively today and tomorrow | 17:16 |
| btully | but there's a 2 day approve time, no? | 17:16 |
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| btully | so for a release on the 12th, commits should be in by the 10th? | 17:16 |
| sjmc7 | btully - only by tradition | 17:16 |
| sjmc7 | it's not a rule | 17:16 |
| ativelkov | it is an average, there is not rule %) | 17:16 |
| ativelkov | we just have a large backlog of commits waiting for approval | 17:17 |
| tsufiev | btully, that is true for complicated changes, but for simple changes it can be less | 17:17 |
| ativelkov | and we may use some help here | 17:17 |
| btully | k | 17:17 |
| sjmc7 | ativelkov - let's talk about reviews later and go through the remaining BPs | 17:17 |
| ruhe | let's move on | 17:17 |
| ruhe | slagun: what about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/throw-correct-exception ? | 17:18 |
| ruhe | ah, again and again i ask you about this superseded BP :) | 17:18 |
| sjmc7 | :) | 17:18 |
| ruhe | i've just cleared milestone target | 17:18 |
| slagun | ruhe, I don't know why it is marked ad complete. It is not | 17:18 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, how do you order BPs? | 17:19 |
| ruhe | tsufiev: i just opened https://launchpad.net/murano/+milestone/juno-1 | 17:19 |
| slagun | I'd like to move it to j2 actually | 17:19 |
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| ruhe | tsufiev: and i check those which look scary | 17:19 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, got it | 17:19 |
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| ruhe | slagun: please update the BP | 17:19 |
| gokrokve_ | I just want to make sure that we have actions in j1 | 17:20 |
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| gokrokve_ | there are customers who want this feature for autoscaling | 17:20 |
| tsufiev | gokrokve_, it will be hard for the UI part | 17:20 |
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| ruhe | UI will not make it into j1 | 17:20 |
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| gokrokve_ | tsufiev: what are the problems? How can I help? | 17:20 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: we'll get back to the action a little bit ealier | 17:21 |
| ruhe | * later | 17:21 |
| gokrokve_ | what is the minimal functionality we can expose in UI? | 17:21 |
| gokrokve_ | ok | 17:21 |
| slagun | ruhe, it is superseded by bug. But launchpad can mark BP as being superseded only by another BP | 17:21 |
| ruhe | ativelkov: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/murano-cli-client can you move this one to J2? | 17:21 |
| sjmc7 | i can help with that one ruhe/ativlekov | 17:21 |
| ativelkov | ruhe: done | 17:22 |
| ativelkov | I am sure katyafervent is working on it right now | 17:22 |
| sjmc7 | ah, ok | 17:22 |
| sjmc7 | i'll leave it alone then :) | 17:22 |
| katyafervent | yeap, almost ready | 17:22 |
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| ativelkov | We need a proper manifest generation for MuranoPL-based packages - that is the trickier part | 17:22 |
| ativelkov | But I am sure Kate will do it the right way | 17:23 |
| ruhe | the next big one is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/online-app-repository by iyozhikov | 17:23 |
| ativelkov | I've moved the BP to j2 just in case | 17:23 |
| gokrokve_ | +1 to move it to j2 | 17:23 |
| gokrokve_ | it is not urgent | 17:23 |
| ruhe | i've updated status of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/online-app-repository to "Needs code review" | 17:23 |
| ativelkov | gokrokve_: its kinda urgent, as we've announced hot auto importing as a feature, and it requires package-create command | 17:24 |
| gokrokve_ | ok | 17:24 |
| ativelkov | But it's ok to be a little late with it, rather then do it wrong | 17:24 |
| ruhe | also, i've just updated status of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/filter-flavor-for-each-service to "Implemented" | 17:24 |
| ativelkov | I wanted to discuss this a little | 17:24 |
| ruhe | ativelkov: which one do you want to discuss? | 17:25 |
| ativelkov | filter-flavor-for-each-service | 17:25 |
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| ativelkov | I've written an email to ML about it, but havn't got any response | 17:25 |
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| ruhe | ativelkov: you can bug those who filed and worked on this BP in person and make sure they respond in ML :) | 17:26 |
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| ativelkov | Well, it is more general question actually | 17:26 |
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| sjmc7 | ativelkov, we did discuss this before a bit | 17:26 |
| sjmc7 | that it should be at the API level | 17:27 |
| sjmc7 | or rather, the constraint level | 17:27 |
| sjmc7 | but that that was going to be a much bigger piece of work | 17:27 |
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| ativelkov | Right | 17:27 |
| sjmc7 | apologies for not replying, i meant to yesterday | 17:28 |
| ativelkov | So, I just want to make sure that we are on a common ground here | 17:28 |
| sjmc7 | but i agree there's more needs doing there | 17:28 |
| ativelkov | Great | 17:28 |
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| ruhe | ativelkov: sjmc7: can we move to the next BP? | 17:29 |
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| sjmc7 | yep | 17:29 |
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| ruhe | the next one is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/improve-engine-logging by sjmc7 | 17:29 |
| ruhe | it's in "Started" state | 17:29 |
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| sjmc7 | yeah.. this is still sort of an ongoing one | 17:29 |
| sjmc7 | related to the exception BP you mentioned a few minutes ago, and some others | 17:30 |
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| sjmc7 | i think we should probably close this BP in favor of more specific ones | 17:30 |
| sjmc7 | i still think improving error reporting is very important | 17:30 |
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| ruhe | so, just mark this one as "Implemented" with a note that remaining work will be tracked in separate BPs? | 17:31 |
| sjmc7 | yeah - i can do that | 17:31 |
| ruhe | thank you | 17:31 |
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| ativelkov | I would prefer a set of logging functions to be added to the Core MuranoPL lib | 17:31 |
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| ativelkov | (as an example of separate BP) | 17:31 |
| ruhe | i suggest everyone to refresh page with https://launchpad.net/murano/+milestone/juno-1 | 17:32 |
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| ruhe | now it looks much better | 17:32 |
| sjmc7 | :) | 17:32 |
| slagun | engine logging will be greatly improved after we merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98984/ | 17:32 |
| sjmc7 | you shou;d've been an accountant | 17:32 |
| ruhe | sjmc7: i'd prefer to be an astronaut instead of accountant | 17:32 |
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| sjmc7 | :) | 17:33 |
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| ruhe | and now we have a clear list of things which we should review first | 17:33 |
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| ruhe | i suggest to move to the next topic "Bugs" | 17:33 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, speaking of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/murano/+spec/normalize-dashboard-pagination ... | 17:33 |
| ruhe | tsufiev: yes... | 17:34 |
| tsufiev | it was originally in Implemented state, but then an idea has come to provide 'Previous' button | 17:34 |
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| tsufiev | I'd like to implement that idea in scope of that blueprint | 17:34 |
| tsufiev | (to not create 3 blueprints for one topic) | 17:35 |
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| tsufiev | hope I'll do it tomorrow | 17:35 |
| ruhe | tsufiev: ok, good | 17:35 |
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| ruhe | #topic bugs | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:36 | |
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| ruhe | now the list of BPs look good at https://launchpad.net/murano/+milestone/juno-1 | 17:36 |
| ruhe | but the list of bugs looks scary | 17:36 |
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| ruhe | sjmc7 started mini-triage day just an hour ago | 17:36 |
| sjmc7 | :) | 17:37 |
| sjmc7 | a meeting got cancelled | 17:37 |
| christopheraedo | see if you can get it from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2hdAztV6b1IdE9GX21tbDhoX0U/edit?usp=sharing | 17:37 |
| sjmc7 | went bug-hunting instead | 17:37 |
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| ruhe | let's go through the list briefly | 17:38 |
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| ruhe | serg_melikyan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/murano/+bug/1326382 will you fix this one? | 17:38 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1326382 in murano "[python-muranoclient] Get method doen't return information about specific app" [Critical,Confirmed] | 17:38 |
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| ruhe | ok, let's hope serge will get back to us soon | 17:39 |
| serg_melikyan | ruhe, probably not :( | 17:39 |
| serg_melikyan | sorry, baby-sitting a little bit | 17:39 |
| sjmc7 | serg, i might be able to help, you have a load of bugs assigned to you | 17:39 |
| katyafervent | I guess this bug need more verification - dashboard is working, so it's not critical | 17:40 |
| serg_melikyan | sjmc7: not so many actually, but it will be great :) | 17:40 |
| ruhe | sjmc7: great! please re-assign this bug to yourself | 17:40 |
| sjmc7 | curses! :) | 17:40 |
| ruhe | my patch with alembic should fix the next one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1327132 | 17:40 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1327132 in murano "Data base exception" [Critical,Confirmed] | 17:40 |
| serg_melikyan | sjmc7: I can fill-in you with details after this meeting | 17:40 |
| sjmc7 | ok | 17:40 |
| ruhe | slagun: will you fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/murano/+bug/1311755 in j1? | 17:41 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1311755 in murano "[api] API doesn't detect deployment failure" [High,Confirmed] | 17:41 |
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| sjmc7 | this is related to environment deletion | 17:41 |
| sjmc7 | environment state transitions | 17:42 |
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| slagun | ruhe, lets move it to j2 | 17:42 |
| ruhe | slagun: ok. please do so | 17:43 |
| serg_melikyan | it is actually directly related to actions | 17:43 |
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| ruhe | next one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/murano/+bug/1318095 sjmc7, this one is yours | 17:43 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1318095 in murano "[api] when deploying environment, failed package validation error results in misleading exception" [High,Confirmed] | 17:43 |
| sjmc7 | ah, yeah. i'll do that today | 17:43 |
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| ruhe | katyafervent: you filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/murano/+bug/1319677 . maybe you can fix it? how complex would be the fix? and do we really need it in j1? | 17:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1319677 in murano "Obsolete API calls, which interacts with deployment status reports" [High,Confirmed] | 17:45 |
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| katyafervent | let me think | 17:45 |
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| katyafervent | we definitely need to fix it. 1 day would be enough | 17:46 |
| katyafervent | well, may be it can be postponed to j2 - since it doesn't break anything | 17:46 |
| katyafervent | assign it for me please | 17:46 |
| ruhe | katyafervent: you can do it. and if it doesn't brake anything, you can make it "medium priority" | 17:47 |
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| katyafervent | I have no rights for that) | 17:47 |
| ruhe | tsufiev: can you help with that? | 17:47 |
| ruhe | the last one with high priority is https://bugs.launchpad.net/murano/+bug/1325101 | 17:48 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1325101 in murano "[api] marks environments deleted regardless of actual state" [High,Confirmed] | 17:48 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, sure | 17:48 |
| ruhe | slagun: this one is also yours | 17:48 |
| slagun | ruhe, this should be implemented after actions. So probably also in J2 | 17:48 |
| ruhe | slagun: ok. please update the bug accordingly | 17:49 |
| ruhe | that's all about bugs i guess | 17:49 |
| ruhe | we don't have much time and we have 2 more pending topics | 17:49 |
| ruhe | #topic app catalog index | 17:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "app catalog index (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:50 | |
| ruhe | btully: please go ahead | 17:50 |
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| btully | sure | 17:50 |
| btully | so currently at the top of the page there is a section called "Latest Apps" | 17:50 |
| btully | which I think is confusing | 17:50 |
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| btully | it appears to be something of a "Recent Activity" section | 17:50 |
| btully | i.e., if an app has been deployed or added to an env it will show there | 17:51 |
| ativelkov | btully: agree | 17:51 |
| btully | so i am suggesting 2 things | 17:51 |
| btully | rename section to reflect true purpose | 17:51 |
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| btully | and if we show apps there | 17:51 |
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| btully | they should not have action buttons in their "tile" | 17:52 |
| btully | so some modified tile design | 17:52 |
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| tsufiev | btully, why remove the action buttons? | 17:52 |
| sjmc7 | yeah - my 2c on this is that if it's 'recently deployed stuff' you hsould instead get a link to the deployment | 17:52 |
| sjmc7 | and if it's "recently added applications" it makes sense to have the deployment buttons | 17:52 |
| btully | if they are showing there, they already will have been acted on, no? | 17:52 |
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| ativelkov | Well, you may want to add another instance of this app to your environment | 17:53 |
| sjmc7 | but maybe this can be discussed after this meeting | 17:53 |
| btully | ahh i see what you mean | 17:53 |
| ativelkov | or to different env | 17:53 |
| btully | yup | 17:53 |
| btully | good point | 17:53 |
| btully | ok at the very least we should reconsider the title of that section | 17:53 |
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| sjmc7 | yes, agree | 17:54 |
| btully | Latest Activity or Recent Activity, something like that | 17:54 |
| tsufiev | the Lates Apps section should be redone even more | 17:54 |
| tsufiev | e.g., all these Apps are stored now in user's web session which is not very good | 17:54 |
| tsufiev | they must be stored in db | 17:54 |
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| btully | right, so for a large percentage of users, that section will be empty | 17:54 |
| tsufiev | I agree to change the name for the section | 17:54 |
| gokrokve_ | btully: As we consider to support different formats like APS, TOSCA, would it make sense to add type to a title. | 17:54 |
| btully | so also, do we even show that section if there are no items | 17:55 |
| gokrokve_ | btully: Like small icon like text "APS" or TOSCA" | 17:55 |
| sjmc7 | gokrokve_ - i think it would def make sense to mention the format in the details somewhere, yes | 17:55 |
| tsufiev | btully, so I agree that thing needs to be changed, but frankly speaking, we don't have enough time to change it the _right_ way at J1 | 17:55 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: By the way did you add BP for APS format? | 17:55 |
| sjmc7 | let's agree to a) change the title of that section and b) discuss its use and whether we want to change how it works | 17:55 |
| slagun | gokrokve_ this would be useful when we do begin support any of those. At least design such support | 17:55 |
| sjmc7 | gokrokve_ - not yet, planning to today | 17:56 |
| btully | indeed, fir J1 was just considering the title | 17:56 |
| btully | for j1 | 17:56 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: Cool | 17:56 |
| tsufiev | sjmc7, +1 | 17:56 |
| ruhe | also, +1 from me | 17:56 |
| btully | +! | 17:56 |
| btully | +1 | 17:56 |
| gokrokve_ | +1 | 17:57 |
| ruhe | #agreed to a) change the title of that section and b) discuss its use and whether we want to change how it works | 17:57 |
| tsufiev | ruhe, what's left? | 17:57 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: should we discuss actions? | 17:57 |
| gokrokve_ | ruhe: Sure | 17:57 |
| ruhe | #topic murano actions | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "murano actions (Meeting topic: murano)" | 17:57 | |
| gokrokve_ | We need to have minimal support of actions. | 17:57 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: define minimal support please | 17:58 |
| sjmc7 | in 30 seconds or less, what are 'actions' in this context? | 17:58 |
| gokrokve_ | As I know there is API for that but we need to expose this functionality in UI | 17:58 |
| gokrokve_ | sjmc7: public methods in APP definitions | 17:58 |
| gokrokve_ | action like doBackup or ScaleUP | 17:58 |
| tsufiev | gokrokve_, parameterized actions? | 17:59 |
| gokrokve_ | this is a workflow to do something as ALM | 17:59 |
| gokrokve_ | tsufiev: Without params for j1 | 17:59 |
| serg_melikyan | gokrokve_: to have UI we need to change specification of package, change how DynamicUI process definitions and many other bits :( | 17:59 |
| gokrokve_ | just URL with a hook to call an action | 17:59 |
| ruhe | gokrokve_: there was no work done on designing the UI part. i doubt it'll make it into j1 | 17:59 |
| serg_melikyan | ruhe: design was actually done | 17:59 |
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| serg_melikyan | ruhe, gokrokve_ has done some WireFrames on this | 18:00 |
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| gokrokve_ | not sure how dinamic UI is related to that | 18:00 |
| serg_melikyan | if we are talking about actions without arfs | 18:00 |
| tsufiev | gokrokve_, , I could expose a list of links in each Environment (or Application?) | 18:00 |
| gokrokve_ | I need just a list of actions available | 18:00 |
| ruhe | serg_melikyan: i haven't seen any discussions about those wireframes | 18:00 |
| gokrokve_ | App | 18:00 |
| tsufiev | gokrokve_, ok | 18:00 |
| serg_melikyan | ruhe: it was before you have joined to us :) | 18:01 |
| gokrokve_ | we are out of time | 18:01 |
| ruhe | folks, let's move to #murano | 18:01 |
| ruhe | we're out of time | 18:01 |
| ruhe | thanks everyone | 18:01 |
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| ruhe | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 18:01:22 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-06-10-17.02.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-06-10-17.02.txt | 18:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2014/murano.2014-06-10-17.02.log.html | 18:01 |
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| sc68cal | Who's here for the neutron qos API meeting? | 18:01 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: here | 18:02 |
| pcarver | hi | 18:02 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_qos | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 18:02:32 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 18:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos' | 18:02 |
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| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronQoS | 18:02 |
| sc68cal | So, I did create a wiki page for the subteam :) | 18:03 |
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| s3wong | sc68cal: wow, loads of stuff :-) | 18:03 |
| sc68cal | :) | 18:03 |
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| sc68cal | I could run an agenda similar to the IPv6 subteam, but I don't want to dictate to people what the agenda is | 18:04 |
| sc68cal | blueprints, code reviews, bugs, open discussion | 18:04 |
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| sc68cal | I imagine we | 18:05 |
| sc68cal | would skip over bugs for now :) | 18:05 |
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| s3wong | sc68cal: got to have code first before bugs :-) | 18:05 |
| sc68cal | I was planning on it being perfect the first time :-p | 18:05 |
| sc68cal | and then vehemently denying the existince of bugs ;) | 18:05 |
| sc68cal | #topic blueprints | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)" | 18:06 | |
| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/88599/3/specs/juno/qos-api-extension.rst | 18:06 |
| sc68cal | So, I have to apologize to everyone for the lack of updates to that spec | 18:06 |
| sc68cal | J-1 is this week so I've been trying to get some ipv6 patches landed | 18:07 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: and I haven't reviewed the spec yet neither, so I also have to apologize | 18:07 |
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| sc68cal | for J-2 I will be doing support, rather than dev on the ipv6 side so I've allocated my sprints towards the QoS API for the J-2 timeframe. I recognize that I'm currently the SPOF for the spec, and I want to get out of the way and unblock people | 18:08 |
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| s3wong | cool | 18:09 |
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| sc68cal | Really that's all I have to report, the fact that I recognize I'm the SPOF for the spec currently and asking for a little more time to sort things out on the v6 side. It's not the best situation, so I plan on trying to delegate more things to people in the future | 18:12 |
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| s3wong | OK | 18:12 |
| sc68cal | I'm hoping that we might be able to get things considered for J-2 or J-3, though I'll have to talk to mestery and see. | 18:13 |
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| mestery | sc68cal: Ready and waiting for that discussion. :) | 18:13 |
| sc68cal | Hahah :) | 18:13 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: yes. Since we are just having rate-limiting and DSCP marking, it seems simple enough to have hope for Juno timeframe | 18:14 |
| sc68cal | Nova parity is a big item for the J release, so I prefer to underpromise and over-deliver, rather than the inverse | 18:14 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: certainly :-) | 18:15 |
| s3wong | Just noticed that DVR won't make J-1, and is pushed out to J-2 | 18:15 |
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| s3wong | so more stress on core-dev for reviews in later phases... | 18:16 |
| sc68cal | yeah - my heart goes out to the people on DVR. :) | 18:16 |
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| sc68cal | That's about all I have on the blueprint side, unless we want to discuss the ratelimit spec | 18:17 |
| sc68cal | #link https://review.openstack.org/96331 | 18:18 |
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| s3wong | Linux bridge? | 18:18 |
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| sc68cal | s3wong: yeah, the first concrete implementation of the ratelimit type will be via the linuxbridge mech driver | 18:18 |
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| s3wong | sc68cal: I see. This will utilize the API you have on the API spec | 18:19 |
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| sc68cal | s3wong: correct - I just need to update one section of my spec to reflect some of the policy keys the LB ratelimit requires | 18:20 |
| sc68cal | since they want keypairs that correspond to the tc command args, I believe | 18:20 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: while we should satisfy tc command use case, should we really model the API after whta tc needs? | 18:21 |
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| sc68cal | s3wong: a valid concern | 18:22 |
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| sc68cal | I would suggest asking that in either my spec or the linuxbridge spec | 18:23 |
| sc68cal | to capture that concern | 18:23 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: sure | 18:23 |
| sc68cal | My thinking is that we would start off just validating the args for a ratelimit policy with tc in mind as the target | 18:24 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: yes, certainly we have to ensure it works for the first reference implementation | 18:24 |
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| sc68cal | but when another implementation comes along, try an agree on overlapping keypairs can be validated by common code | 18:24 |
| sc68cal | then have a way to validate the extra keypairs for each implementation | 18:25 |
| sc68cal | it might end up creating different types | 18:25 |
| sc68cal | ratelimit-linuxbridge | 18:25 |
| sc68cal | ratelimit-next | 18:25 |
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| s3wong | sc68cal: creating a flavor framework for QoS :-) | 18:25 |
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| sc68cal | s3wong: good point, or hoping that we can piggy back on the flavor framework that is being discussed | 18:26 |
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| s3wong | sc68cal: that would be interesting. Now the flavor framework is tags used to describe class of network services | 18:27 |
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| sc68cal | Sounds like we have some wiggle room with that wording to sneak in :) | 18:27 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: though the tags are more associated with the service driver (who it advertises) vs which network / connectivity driver to use | 18:28 |
| s3wong | (I assume it would be the network / connectivity driver who is going to provide QoS | 18:28 |
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| sc68cal | Yeah currently qos is a driver that is set in the agent configuration | 18:30 |
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| sc68cal | at least for the ml2 plugin and ovs agent combo | 18:30 |
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| s3wong | sc68cal: yes | 18:31 |
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| sc68cal | That's about all I have for today, I can give everyone back half an hour if there is nothing else | 18:33 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: +1 | 18:34 |
| sc68cal | I'm always in #openstack-neutron too, so don't be a stranger :) | 18:34 |
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| sc68cal | s3wong: thanks for coming, good stuff! | 18:34 |
| s3wong | sc68cal: thanks! | 18:34 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 18:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 18:34:48 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2014/neutron_qos.2014-06-10-18.02.html | 18:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2014/neutron_qos.2014-06-10-18.02.txt | 18:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2014/neutron_qos.2014-06-10-18.02.log.html | 18:34 |
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| adrian_otto | #startmeeting Solum Team Meeting | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 10 22:00:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is adrian_otto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'solum_team_meeting' | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Solum#Agenda_for_2014-06-10_2200_UTC Our Agenda | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Roll Call | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:00 | |
| paulmo_ | Paul Montgomery | 22:00 |
| adrian_otto | Adrian Otto | 22:00 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 22:00 |
| julienvey | Julien Vey | 22:00 |
| muralia | murali allada | 22:00 |
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| stannie | Pierre Padrixe | 22:00 |
| iqbalmohomed | Hello all | 22:00 |
| aratim | Arati Mahimane | 22:01 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, let's begin. If you have not yet recorded yourself in attendance, you may chime in at any time. | 22:02 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Announcements | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:02 | |
| datsun180b | sorry, i kept spelling it wrong | 22:02 |
| adrian_otto | We will be tagging a release for juno-1 tonight. Thre are 9 bug/task tickets currently marked as in-progress. Anything that does not land by this evening will be retargeted to juno-2. | 22:02 |
| adrian_otto | Are there any patches in particular that we should be sure to work together to merge before the release? | 22:03 |
| asalkeld | don't think so | 22:03 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, thanks. If any thoughts come up during task review, just be sure to bird-dog anything important. | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | Any other announcements from any team members? | 22:04 |
| paulmo_ | Mind if I post a link for discussion at the open topic time? | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | I will share with you about some observations from DockerCon during Open Discussion | 22:04 |
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| adrian_otto | paulmo_: sure, you can do that now | 22:05 |
| paulmo_ | Solum + Workflow spec start: http://rst.ninjs.org/?n=37d5ba89876308e82d485333f43531dc (will move it to Solum repo soon) | 22:05 |
| paulmo_ | Thanks! | 22:05 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, thanks paulmo. We will cover that in a moment. | 22:05 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Review Action Items | 22:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:06 | |
| adrian_otto | julienvey to follow up with Heat contributors about Keystone chained trusted tokens, to offer our support. Include Solum Stackers in discussions. | 22:06 |
| adrian_otto | any update on this one? | 22:06 |
| julienvey | shardy is working on that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97569/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96298/ | 22:06 |
| julienvey | and asalkeld is reviewing, so he might have more info than I have | 22:06 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, shardy is about to start work on the chained trusts bp too | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | looks like that one was just +A today. | 22:07 |
| asalkeld | yeah | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | ok, that's good news. | 22:07 |
| asalkeld | I'll need to do some work in mistral | 22:07 |
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| adrian_otto | Do we feel like this is something taht needs any additional love/attention from us? | 22:07 |
| asalkeld | to get this all working | 22:07 |
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| adrian_otto | asalkeld: tx | 22:08 |
| asalkeld | there is some auth issues in mistral that need sorting out | 22:08 |
| asalkeld | (I am working on it) | 22:08 |
| adrian_otto | ok, so I will consider this action item completed. | 22:08 |
| adrian_otto | the next one I have was actually carried over from 2 weeks back, and seems related | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | #link http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg26318.html | 22:09 |
| adrian_otto | asalkeld follow up with keystone team by ML, and IRC (as needed) to explore options for multi-service trust tokens, OAuth, or chaining, and finding the right fit for Solum. | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | so I believe the solution is trusts | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | and we wait for chained trusts | 22:09 |
| adrian_otto | ok, that seems sensible to me | 22:09 |
| asalkeld | but we can work around the issues for the time being | 22:10 |
| adrian_otto | do any other team members have further thoughts or concerns about this? | 22:10 |
| adrian_otto | ok, so this action item is completed. Thanks asalkeld. | 22:11 |
| adrian_otto | do we have all the task tickets we need for this? | 22:11 |
| adrian_otto | or should more be opened? | 22:11 |
| asalkeld | for what? | 22:11 |
| adrian_otto | implementation of chained trusts once the feature is added upstream | 22:11 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, I'll make bugs/bp as needed | 22:11 |
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| adrian_otto | t. | 22:12 |
| adrian_otto | x | 22:12 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Review Tasks | 22:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Tasks (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:12 | |
| adrian_otto | #topic https://launchpad.net/solum/+milestone/juno-1 juno-1 tasks | 22:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://launchpad.net/solum/+milestone/juno-1 juno-1 tasks (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:12 | |
| adrian_otto | whoops | 22:12 |
| adrian_otto | #topic Review Tasks | 22:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Tasks (Meeting topic: Solum Team Meeting)" | 22:12 | |
| adrian_otto | #link https://launchpad.net/solum/+milestone/juno-1 juno-1 tasks | 22:12 |
| adrian_otto | that's better | 22:12 |
| adrian_otto | so any work items in here that deserve interactive discussion today? | 22:13 |
| julienvey | we can drop oauth | 22:13 |
| adrian_otto | I created the juno-2 milestone in LP | 22:13 |
| asalkeld | yeah good point | 22:13 |
| adrian_otto | julien, ok, I will wontfix that one now | 22:13 |
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| adrian_otto | https://bugs.launchpad.net/solum/+bug/1316838 | 22:15 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1316838 in solum "Tech Debt: Change to use keystone v3 uuid auth tokens" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 22:16 |
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| adrian_otto | that one may need to be updated, as we now have catalog filtering and token compression which work around the root cause | 22:16 |
| asalkeld | also it's a deployment issue isn't it? | 22:16 |
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| julienvey | yeah, mostly a devstack config | 22:16 |
| adrian_otto | but since we now get token compression from python-keystoneclient by default, it basically obviates this concern | 22:17 |
| asalkeld | (or link to some docs) | 22:17 |
| adrian_otto | onless anyone objects, I am going to withdraw this one | 22:17 |
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| asalkeld | +1 | 22:19 |
| adrian_otto | ok, done | 22:19 |
| adrian_otto | any others catch your eye? | 22:19 |
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| asalkeld | we just mainly need to do the pipeline thing | 22:20 |
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| muralia | we should discuss the pipeline next and close on a few open questions. | 22:21 |
| adrian_otto1 | are you seeing me back again now? | 22:21 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto1 meet adrian_otto | 22:21 |
| muralia | yes | 22:21 |
| adrian_otto1 | networking has been very sketchy here in San Francisco | 22:21 |
| adrian_otto1 | ok, le'ts move to open discussion | 22:22 |
| adrian_otto1 | #topic Open Discussion | 22:22 |
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| asalkeld | muralia, I think we really need to figure that out | 22:22 |
| adrian_otto1 | paulmo: you first | 22:22 |
| paulmo_ | http://rst.ninjs.org/?n=37d5ba89876308e82d485333f43531dc again | 22:22 |
| asalkeld | (and get stuck into it) | 22:22 |
| paulmo_ | I'm really trying to clarify positions and definitions right now. Hopefully this helps. Let's start with goals. | 22:22 |
| muralia | :) I think the main question to answer is, do we expose mistral to end users or not. | 22:22 |
| paulmo_ | Does everyone agree with the goals stated? | 22:22 |
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| asalkeld | paulmo_, I haven't had time to read fully | 22:23 |
| julienvey | asalkeld: same here | 22:23 |
| paulmo_ | There are just 4 short goals... I think this is key to cover before diving into details. | 22:23 |
| paulmo_ | •Solum must support a pluggable workflow engine | 22:23 |
| paulmo_ | •Create a version 2 Solum REST API and database scheme required to support workflow engines | 22:23 |
| paulmo_ | •Use Mistral as the first plugin workflow engine | 22:23 |
| paulmo_ | •Must prevent nonsensical or infinitely looping workflows | 22:23 |
| datsun180b | having only just read the goals they look all right | 22:23 |
| stannie | didn't read the whole docs, discovered it when the meeting started | 22:23 |
| asalkeld | so I think mistral is the integration point of workflows | 22:23 |
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| asalkeld | so -1 to the first one if that means we have to abstract mistral | 22:24 |
| julienvey | yeah | 22:24 |
| julienvey | +1 to the -1 | 22:24 |
| paulmo_ | Ok, so 1 is controversial. What about the rest? | 22:24 |
| muralia | we need to get the spec repo up so this can be hosted there and everyone can comment | 22:24 |
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| datsun180b | i'm trying to think of a case when a looping workflow would actually be desired | 22:25 |
| julienvey | "Use Mistral as the first plugin workflow engine" this is not a goal, it's an implementation detail | 22:25 |
| asalkeld | the last one is really mistral's job | 22:25 |
| paulmo_ | Good point Julien, I was just trying to put down on "paper" a decision that I think we've made. | 22:25 |
| asalkeld | (to figure out that it is non-sensical | 22:25 |
| asalkeld | ) | 22:25 |
| paulmo_ | asalkeld: That is fine, I didn't say what would perform that action. Mistral makes sense to me. | 22:25 |
| asalkeld | sure | 22:26 |
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| adrian_otto | is a v2 of the API needed? | 22:26 |
| asalkeld | no | 22:26 |
| aratim | Even if we do not support a pluggable workflow engine, I think we should not expose mistral to the user | 22:26 |
| asalkeld | (logical v2) | 22:26 |
| paulmo_ | Ok, so the main point of discussion seems to be around weather Solum directly exposes a Mistral REST API and Mistral DSL to end users directly. Right? | 22:26 |
| asalkeld | yip | 22:26 |
| muralia | yes | 22:27 |
| asalkeld | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/036673.html | 22:27 |
| asalkeld | there some points why I approached it the way I did | 22:27 |
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| paulmo_ | Perhaps we should work on pro/con lists for each option... would that help? | 22:27 |
| asalkeld | sure | 22:28 |
| asalkeld | I don't want to road block development | 22:28 |
| asalkeld | one question: | 22:28 |
| paulmo_ | Well, theoretically you can have Mistral running and access it directly now right? | 22:28 |
| asalkeld | would doing this iterively be a problem | 22:28 |
| asalkeld | paulmo_, sure | 22:28 |
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| asalkeld | so we could start with little/no wrapping | 22:29 |
| paulmo_ | I don't think it would be an issue as long as we know where we are going as an end/ideal goal. | 22:29 |
| julienvey | paulmo_: this is not really iterative =P | 22:29 |
| aratim | yea, I think we can use mistral directly first and later build a wrapper around it | 22:29 |
| adrian_otto | there is a difference between using mistral to implement the default workflow, and exposing Mistral specifics through a Solum API | 22:29 |
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| asalkeld | totally | 22:29 |
| adrian_otto | I think providing a link to the mistral service endpoint is enough | 22:29 |
| asalkeld | ? | 22:30 |
| adrian_otto | we have nothing to add | 22:30 |
| asalkeld | sure we do | 22:30 |
| paulmo_ | So adrian favors Option A it sounds like? | 22:30 |
| muralia | I would prefer not exposing the mistral dsl to end users as there are many things the end user should not be concerned with | 22:30 |
| muralia | a simplified pipeloine config could look as simple as this | 22:31 |
| muralia | tasks: | 22:31 |
| muralia | unit_test: | 22:31 |
| muralia | cmd: ./run_tests.sh | 22:31 |
| muralia | create_image: | 22:31 |
| muralia | function_test: | 22:31 |
| muralia | cmd: (cd functional_tests ; ./run_tests.sh ) | 22:31 |
| muralia | deploy: | 22:31 |
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| asalkeld | well I think we are really split on the approach | 22:31 |
| paulmo_ | asalkeld: Unfortunately I agree. I'm not sure how to convince one side or another to switch. :) | 22:31 |
| asalkeld | but again, we could start simply and abstract more later if we feel it does work well? | 22:31 |
| paulmo_ | I think it would help to have a bit of a longer roadmap to keep everyone's work queues busy. Just my opinion though. | 22:32 |
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| asalkeld | paulmo_, that assumes you want to go there | 22:32 |
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| julienvey | not very "agile" | 22:33 |
| muralia | changing the way a user defines the CI/CD workflow many times over a period of a year will really hurt adoption in my opinion. | 22:33 |
| stannie | +1 asalkeld I'd rather have an iterative approach | 22:33 |
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| adrian_otto | do we share a vision of having a very simple UX for the general case? | 22:33 |
| adrian_otto | or are we divided on that point as well? | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | UI yes, totally | 22:33 |
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| stannie | also the Option A looks very hard for a User but there will a UI to make it easier right ? | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | but the api should not be dumb | 22:33 |
| asalkeld | (IMO) | 22:34 |
| muralia | +1 on simple for the general case | 22:34 |
| paulmo_ | stannie: If it is CLI, there isn't much UI to help but there is some.. | 22:34 |
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| asalkeld | paulmo_, you wouldn't use a cli to check the status of jenkins | 22:34 |
| stannie | indeed... | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | (you go to a web page to see the status of your jobs) | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | link to logs etc... | 22:35 |
| adrian_otto | My current point of view (willing to be persuaded otherwise) is that we can let Mistral lead the workflow DSL work, and provide them with requirements. We offer access to that for power users. Our general users can just use UI to do the common tasks, such that it's only the exception that you are seeking out a DSL to adjust workflow steps. | 22:35 |
| adrian_otto | do we agree on that? | 22:35 |
| asalkeld | totally | 22:36 |
| stannie | exactly adrian_otto | 22:36 |
| julienvey | also, from option A, steps 1 and 2 may not be required by the users, if they use a default workflow provided by solum | 22:36 |
| muralia | ok, I agree with that. | 22:36 |
| aratim | +1 | 22:36 |
| muralia | julienvey: yes | 22:36 |
| stannie | yep julienvey, it's only for Custom Workflow I guess | 22:36 |
| paulmo_ | So no CLI ability to do anything with workflows? No REST API ability to do anything with workflows? | 22:37 |
| adrian_otto | paulmo_: CLI + Web UI for that would be useful | 22:37 |
| paulmo_ | (solum CLI and REST that is) | 22:37 |
| adrian_otto | I see no reason to duplicate mistral APIs or DSL | 22:37 |
| julienvey | +1 | 22:37 |
| stannie | we didn't say no CLI, but no duplication | 22:37 |
| adrian_otto | if we have a UI that is reasonably useful | 22:37 |
| stannie | +1 adrian_otto | 22:37 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 22:38 |
| ravips | +1 | 22:38 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, so seems like we are alights on a DRY approach | 22:38 |
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| adrian_otto | aligned | 22:38 |
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| paulmo_ | I'm not sure one way or another without more details to be honest. | 22:38 |
| adrian_otto | and that simplification efforts should be in our tools rather than in our API | 22:38 |
| asalkeld | this does assume a heave dependence on mistral | 22:39 |
| asalkeld | heavy | 22:39 |
| asalkeld | so we will need to contribute there | 22:39 |
| paulmo_ | I thought a top goal was a pluggable workflow engine? | 22:39 |
| adrian_otto | because the truth is that anyone preferring to use API's to do CI customization is a power user, and should have hte full depth of capability available in the workflow system | 22:39 |
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| adrian_otto | paulmo_: well, almost… | 22:39 |
| julienvey | mistral engine can be changed if i'm right | 22:39 |
| asalkeld | paulmo_, I think we can use mistral to fire off jenkins | 22:39 |
| * paulmo_ is more confused as this discussion progresses... | 22:40 | |
| adrian_otto | we don't have to implement it as engines, but we need to have clean and simple integration points where other tools can easily integrate | 22:40 |
| asalkeld | and yes you can change the engine too | 22:40 |
| adrian_otto | and a way to easily noop the default workflow | 22:40 |
| adrian_otto | that could be a first attempt, and we could then fortify that into a more pluggable system as we see use cases for that | 22:40 |
| adrian_otto | I'd really like our solution to tha problem to be informed by input from seeing how customers use it | 22:41 |
| asalkeld | adrian_otto, I also think doing less is better initially as we have to integrate with other tools | 22:41 |
| adrian_otto | and what preferences they express about what the ideal setup would be | 22:41 |
| adrian_otto | I met a few new potential users this week | 22:42 |
| asalkeld | it's not easy to find an abstraction that works without really trying to integrate (like with zuul) | 22:42 |
| adrian_otto | and these are *not* 12-factor apps | 22:42 |
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| adrian_otto | and I see more of a desire to start over on CI rather than "plug my jenkins into Solum" | 22:42 |
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| adrian_otto | I was not expecting that, although I still have a pretty small sample set. | 22:43 |
| asalkeld | ok | 22:43 |
| asalkeld | I have to go soon - take kids to school | 22:43 |
| adrian_otto | paulmo: do you have enough input on this to work a revision? | 22:43 |
| paulmo_ | Not at all. It sounds like I'm either A) Done, just expose Mistral REST directly or B) ??? | 22:44 |
| adrian_otto | thanks asalkeld. I'll give some insights on Dockercon when we wrap up this subject. | 22:44 |
| * asalkeld heads off | 22:45 | |
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| adrian_otto | paulmo_: ok, so Murali and I are concerned about an "exposure" of the Mistral services | 22:46 |
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| paulmo_ | So am I | 22:46 |
| adrian_otto | we want them to be available to those who need them | 22:46 |
| adrian_otto | and for the default experience to be a simple Solum UI that controls what happens in Mistral | 22:46 |
| paulmo_ | UI = web and CLI? | 22:47 |
| adrian_otto | whether that be web, or cli, or both, we can certainly explore together | 22:47 |
| adrian_otto | even if it were web only, that might be sufficient | 22:47 |
| adrian_otto | at least for a first attempt | 22:47 |
| adrian_otto | it's just a better tool for that sort of a job | 22:48 |
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| muralia | so do we need a pass through api in solum to talk to Mistral? | 22:48 |
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| adrian_otto | I could imagine a CLI that does something like "solum pipeline /some/resource disable unit test" or whatever | 22:49 |
| julienvey | no | 22:49 |
| paulmo_ | There is no need to do so. | 22:49 |
| adrian_otto | but I prefer to defer that until after we ahve a web UI we like | 22:49 |
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| adrian_otto | I'm not sure we are actually in any disagreement, but uncertain what the approach is, and what actions come first, second, third, etc, right? | 22:51 |
| adrian_otto | or do we in fact have a divergence in what the implementation plan should be? | 22:51 |
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| paulmo_ | I'm going to have to think about this some... this is a complete change in direction from where I thought we were going. | 22:52 |
| adrian_otto | ok. | 22:52 |
| julienvey | paulmo_: it's the direction asalkeld took in his patches | 22:52 |
| paulmo_ | Right, and there was a lot of disagreement with that. | 22:53 |
| adrian_otto | ok, let's put this on the agenda to follow up on next week. | 22:53 |
| julienvey | yeah, but the main idea was here, right ? even if there were disagreements | 22:53 |
| adrian_otto | let's continue a dialogue to sort through this so we all feel unified on the next steps. | 22:54 |
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| julienvey | I think we just decided to keep this direction for now, and delay to see if we need to change it | 22:54 |
| adrian_otto | ok, time to switch topics for the last few minutes? | 22:56 |
| julienvey | yeah, DockerCon ? :) | 22:56 |
| adrian_otto | there has been a ton of talk at DockerCon this week about a whole fleet of new tools about orchestration with Docker containers | 22:56 |
| adrian_otto | there are a *lot* of new tools surfacing for this. | 22:57 |
| datsun180b | and 1.0 was released, that's worth mentioning | 22:57 |
| adrian_otto | on the order of like 8 or 9 new things | 22:57 |
| adrian_otto | yes, libswarmd was announded | 22:57 |
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| adrian_otto | which is worth talking about an OpenStack backend for | 22:58 |
| devkulkarni | orchestration as in replacements for Heat? | 22:58 |
| adrian_otto | so I will put that on the agenda for the containers team | 22:58 |
| adrian_otto | devkulkarni: alternatives, or things to be used in combination with, yes | 22:58 |
| devkulkarni | cool. | 22:59 |
| adrian_otto | I'll stay in #solum a bit this afternoon to point you at a few. | 22:59 |
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| devkulkarni | that will be helpful | 22:59 |
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| adrian_otto | time for us to wrap up for today. The DockerCon conference is *packed* with lots of very excited users who are super interested in the space we are working in. | 23:00 |
| adrian_otto | thanks everyone | 23:00 |
| adrian_otto | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 10 23:00:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-06-10-22.00.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-06-10-22.00.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/solum_team_meeting/2014/solum_team_meeting.2014-06-10-22.00.log.html | 23:00 |
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