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| dhellmann | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 12 16:00:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:00 |
| bnemec | o/ | 16:00 |
| sileht | o/ | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | our agenda, as usual: | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 16:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 16:00 |
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| dhellmann | courtesy ping for jd__, dims, bnemec, flaper87, harlowja, viktors, rpodolyaka1, zzzeek, sileht, kgiusti | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for redrobot, jungleboyj, zhiyan, therve, amotoki, GheRivero, bknudson, ihrachyshka, jogo, dougwig, sreshetnyak, amrith | 16:00 |
| jd__ | o/ | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ again. :-) | 16:01 |
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| dhellmann | heh, I have those lined up to paste so you don't have to answer twice :-) | 16:01 |
| zzzeek | o/ | 16:01 |
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| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Nice. | 16:01 |
| rpodolyaka1 | o/ | 16:01 |
| dhellmann | we have a lot to cover today, so I'm going to dive right in | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #topic Review action items from previous meeting | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
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| dhellmann | #info dhellmann email dev list reminding oslo contributors to be ready to discuss schedule at the next meeting DONE | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | *foreshadowing* | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann talk to gordc about releasing oslo.middleware DONE | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann release oslo.concurrency DONE | 16:02 |
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| dhellmann | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| dhellmann | does anyone have any blocking issues? | 16:03 |
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| dhellmann | I think we've at least identified all of the fixes for things broken by the namespace package changes, right? | 16:03 |
| bknudson | things are looking good in keystone-land | 16:03 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 16:03 |
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| * flaper87 loves dhellmann's courtesy pings | 16:03 | |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: I have this issue: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145642/ | 16:04 |
| bknudson | I have some complaints about config generator that I haven't brought up yet. | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | cinder, heat, and ceilometer had some breakages | 16:04 |
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| jungleboyj | I am about to submit a patch to set olso.i18n to be <=1.1.0 for Juno. | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: That makes sense? | 16:04 |
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| bknudson | I don't think you can cap versions in juno since then can't upgrade | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | jungleboyj: yeah, that may be the best way to address stable branch issues. We'll see if it works. :-) | 16:05 |
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| jungleboyj | bknudson: ??? | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: that used to be true, but I don't think it is any more. | 16:05 |
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| bknudson | must have changed the grenade test then | 16:05 |
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| dhellmann | we keep trying to make it work, but I honestly don't know the current state | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | I will push it out there and see if anyone has concerns and if it blows up in grenade. | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | grenade does apparently update dependencies | 16:06 |
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| dhellmann | jungleboyj: yeah, let's see what happens | 16:07 |
| * jungleboyj makes it so | 16:07 | |
| dhellmann | how blocked is cinder development based on this? are all patches failing now? | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | All the stable/juno ones. We got master fixed up already. | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | ok, as long as the blockage is limited | 16:07 |
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| dhellmann | how about any of the other projects? heat and ceilometer also had some issues, are those resolved? | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | therve, and jd__ ? | 16:08 |
| bknudson | these are all related to using internal interfaces that change? | 16:08 |
| jd__ | that does not ring a bell | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | jd__: ok, I thought I saw something about unit tests being broken | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | maybe it was already resolved, but as long as you're not blocked | 16:09 |
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| dhellmann | if there's nothing else, we can move on to our kilo-2 status check | 16:10 |
| bknudson | in keystone we had an issue with using timeutils but fixed that quickly. | 16:10 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: did you just change the mock? | 16:10 |
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| bknudson | dhellmann: yes, a mock was made: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145989/ | 16:11 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: ok, cool | 16:11 |
| bknudson | would be nice to see this mock in oslo_utils | 16:11 |
| bknudson | class TimeFixture(fixtures.Fixture): | 16:12 |
| bknudson | oh, wrong, we were using the mock before. | 16:12 |
| bknudson | we switched to set_time_override() instead of the mock. | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | oh, yeah, we should put that in the lib | 16:12 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: do you want to work on a patch for that? | 16:13 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: I'll put it on my list! | 16:13 |
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| dhellmann | #action bknudson to work on patch to add fixture for timeutils in oslo.utils | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | thanks! | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | anything else from liaisons before we start our status review? | 16:13 |
| bnemec | Not from me | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | No, I am good. | 16:14 |
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| dhellmann | ok, moving on then | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | #topic kilo-2 status review | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kilo-2 status review (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:14 | |
| dhellmann | https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/kilo-2 | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | #topic Drop our use of namespace packages | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo-incubator/+spec/drop-namespace-packages | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Drop our use of namespace packages (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:15 | |
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| dhellmann | we made good progress last week, in spite of breaking a few things | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | we have two more patches to land to update oslo.messaging and oslo.vmware | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144794/2 | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/145924 | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | then we can continue releasing libraries as we go, and I think we'll be able to finish those by k-2 | 16:15 |
| bknudson | there's some reviews out there: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:bp/drop-namespace-packages,n,z | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | that oslo.messaging patch is still not working with some of the imports in the other projects, so it needs more work, but I think the vmware changes are OK | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: it's good to see the migration happening already | 16:16 |
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| dhellmann | I was planning to release oslo.db after the meeting, but I have to run an errand so I won't be around if things break. Is someone else going to be around to keep an eye on things for an hour or two, or should I wait until tomorrow? | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1, zzzeek: ? | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | waiting isn't a problem, but releasing when we're all going offline is :-) | 16:18 |
| zzzeek | dhellmann: im around | 16:18 |
| rpodolyaka1 | dhellmann: I'll be around too | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: oslo.serialization also looks ready to go | 16:18 |
| zzzeek | dhellmann: it might be nice to merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139738/ | 16:18 |
| zzzeek | dhellmann: have been trying to get viktors to drop his -1 | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | zzzeek: ok, great, I'll do the release when we're done here | 16:18 |
| rpodolyaka1 | zzzeek: I'll take a look | 16:19 |
| * dhellmann is typing slowly today | 16:19 | |
| dhellmann | we can wait, but we can also do another release later in the week with that change in it | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | I want to get the package stuff out there so we can find what it breaks before k-2 | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | make sense? | 16:19 |
| bnemec | dhellmann: You already released oslo.serialization: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054049.html | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: hmm, I forgot to update my notes | 16:20 |
| zzzeek | dhellmann: OK that’s fine, its a bug fix so should be out soon | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | zzzeek: yep, there's no reason to delay once we have the ns pkg version of the lib out there | 16:21 |
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| dhellmann | I'm only spacing out the other releases because we anticipate things breaking, and I want to know we can fix issues by limiting them to one lib at a time | 16:21 |
| zzzeek | dhellmann: that’s good. so just release as it is | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | sounds good | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | let's move on then | 16:22 |
| bknudson | there was some discussion of a hacking rule to prevent use of the deprecated package names, which I agree with ... there's a reviews in flight and merge conflict resolution to consider. | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | bknudson: Is did someone already write that? | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: yeah, it's ok if projects want to maintain something like that I suppose. I don't want to have to wait on oslo releases until it's updated, though, so I'm not super excited about having it | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | I don't want to be in a situation where we can't release an oslo lib because a hacking rule would break a bunch of apps all at once | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | bknudson: That was on my list for today. :-) | 16:23 |
| bknudson | jungleboyj: apparently dims__ has one in nova. | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | bknudson: Cool, I will look at what he did. | 16:23 |
| dims__ | bknudson: yep just a regexp | 16:23 |
| bknudson | not sure if it should be shared or copied. | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: So you would prefer this be a per project thing? | 16:23 |
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| dhellmann | jungleboyj: it depends on how it's implemented. How does it know which libs need the rule applied, and which don't? | 16:24 |
| bknudson | if it's like other hacking rules, we have to explicitly update. | 16:24 |
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| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Not sure, will look at what dims__ did. I was going to add it and then update it with each namespace I got moved over. | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | dims__: Do you have a review link? | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | that would work. I'm not sure how we could do that in the central hacking project, but i haven't given it any real thought | 16:25 |
| bknudson | I have no problem with project-specific... we seem to have a lot of projects in keystone so it's annoying. | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: Good point, seems it would need to be project specific. | 16:26 |
| bknudson | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/hacking/checks.py#L452 | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | jungleboyj: yeah | 16:26 |
| jungleboyj | bknudson: Thanks! | 16:27 |
| bknudson | how about oslo-incubator? | 16:27 |
| bknudson | want a hacking check in there? (does if have them already?) | 16:28 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: I haven't started updating any of the code there, yet. I was counting on being able to delete more of it. :-) | 16:28 |
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| dhellmann | we have several other blueprints to look at, so let's move on and come back to this one if we need at the end of the meeting | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | #topic graduate oslo.context | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "graduate oslo.context (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:29 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo-incubator/+spec/graduate-oslo-context | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | I think for this we just need to remove the old code from the incubator. | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | Is that blocked on the oslo.log release? | 16:29 |
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| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140149/ | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | dims: ? | 16:29 |
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| dhellmann | ok, I'll check with dims__ later today | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | #topic adopt debtcollector library | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "adopt debtcollector library (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:31 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo-incubator/+spec/adopt-debtcollector | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_away: ? | 16:31 |
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| dhellmann | ok, I'll bump that one to kilo-3 | 16:32 |
| dhellmann | #topic graduate oslo.policy | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "graduate oslo.policy (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:33 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo-incubator/+spec/graduate-policy | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | ayoung is working on this one | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | and I don't see him online at the moment | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | I think we're waiting on the actual import to happen, which is probably blocked on that governance change. That should happen today. | 16:34 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: I caught him in openstack-keystone | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | There's a link in the bp to the repo set up to be imported, so we could start reviewing that | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: thanks | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | #link https://github.com/rodrigods/oslo.policy | 16:34 |
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| dhellmann | ayoung: we were just checking up on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo-incubator/+spec/graduate-policy | 16:35 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, knocking off items on the ticklist | 16:36 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: it seems like it will be tight to get the release in by k-2, but some of that depends on how much cleanup is needed before a release | 16:36 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, why? It's pretty minimal | 16:37 |
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| dhellmann | ayoung: review time? | 16:37 |
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| ayoung | dhellmann, K+2 is when? | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | how much do you anticipate changing once that repo is imported? | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | k-2 is 5 Feb, about 4 weeks from now | 16:38 |
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| ayoung | dhellmann, we can't get the library released by then? If not, we are broken | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: come on, you know this isn't the only thing we're doing right now | 16:39 |
| ayoung | To start? Nothing | 16:39 |
| ayoung | I havea achange I want in, but if it misses, its not worth holding up the release | 16:39 |
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| ayoung | dhellmann, I realize, but this is just procedural | 16:39 |
| ayoung | The code is not going to change, just the distro mechanism | 16:39 |
| ayoung | I'm not even assuming that the other projects will switch over to using it | 16:40 |
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| ayoung | but let's get it out | 16:40 |
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| ayoung | RIght now we have the launchpad stuff basicall set: | 16:40 |
| ayoung | need to probably put together a policy specific group , as it is all owned by me right now | 16:40 |
| ayoung | who should that be? | 16:40 |
| ayoung | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/oslo.policy | 16:41 |
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| ayoung | dhellmann, the repo is in git under rodrigods | 16:42 |
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| ayoung | HA! | 16:42 |
| bknudson | ayoung: you must have made him really mad. | 16:42 |
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| ayoung | dhellmann, don't you like me any more? | 16:43 |
| bnemec | ayoung: I think for the lp project you just need to set it to be part of Oslo: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/creators.html#put-your-new-project-in-the-correct-project-group | 16:43 |
| ayoung | bnemec, done | 16:43 |
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| ayoung | bnemec, see the link? Part of oslo | 16:43 |
| ayoung | bnemec, question is who should be the maintainers. | 16:44 |
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| ayoung | I'm not Oslo core, nor are any of the other Keystone core | 16:44 |
| ayoung | I'm guessing we need a minimum of 3 | 16:44 |
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| ayoung | as that is what we need to always have 2 to be able to code review | 16:44 |
| bknudson | seems like the maintainers would start with whoever's on there now, + whoever else you want. | 16:44 |
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| bknudson | then can trim from there | 16:45 |
| ayoung | so: bknudson "whoever's on there now" meaning what? | 16:45 |
| ayoung | Rightnow it is just me | 16:45 |
| ayoung | O | 16:45 |
| ayoung | I'd say: | 16:45 |
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| bknudson | ayoung: whoever has core reviewer authority on policy in oslo-incubator. | 16:45 |
| bnemec | Oslo cores are always added (part of the oslo-core group), and we can add anyone from Keystone that you want | 16:45 |
| dhellmann | I lost internet, reading scrollback | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: thanks | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | #undo | 16:46 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x3bb1190> | 16:46 |
| ayoung | bnemec, Ok, I'll make an oslo.policy.core group and start with the oslo core team plus.... | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/creators.html#set-up-supervisors-for-your-project | 16:46 |
| ayoung | me, morganfainberg bknudson | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: oslo-core should be added to the review group in gerrit | 16:46 |
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| dhellmann | ayoung: and yourself, and then we can talk about who else needs to be added | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | I do want to make sure we're adding people interested in reviewing, and not just people we *want* to be interested in reviewing | 16:46 |
| bnemec | Is there a difference? ;-) | 16:47 |
| morganfainberg | ++ oslo core needs to be there. | 16:47 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, it was origianlly going to be a Keystone project. I'd like a healthy dose of Keystone core in there, as we want people that understand the wide scope of policy | 16:47 |
| ayoung | and people that have touched the policy mechanism in the past | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: yep, that's fine, I just want to make sure we get some sort of confirmation from them as we add them | 16:47 |
| morganfainberg | You can add me to that list. | 16:48 |
| ayoung | OK...so new group? oslo-policy-core is the right name? | 16:48 |
| morganfainberg | (Quick confirmation) | 16:48 |
| ayoung | or oslo.policy.core? | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: I spent many many hours working on http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/creators.html Please go read it. | 16:48 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, so hyphens? | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | that is consistent with the other names, yes | 16:49 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann: ooh nice documentation!! | 16:49 |
| zzzeek | “This is a long document. It’s long because it has to be, not because we want it to be. If you follow it, everything will be fine." | 16:49 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, I had been reading it, just the oslo.policy value got prepoulated. My real question is "Is there a group for any other oslo library that is different from oslo-core?" And, if so, is there a naming convention | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | I'd really like to have a script to do this stuff, but a lot of the pieces are tricky to automate | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: yes, we have been creating oslo-foo-core and oslo-foo-release groups | 16:50 |
| ayoung | Got it | 16:50 |
| bnemec | ayoung: See https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/?filter=oslo | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | especially for libs that have reviewers who are not oslo-core | 16:50 |
| ayoung | maintainer is now oslo-policy-core. I'll seed it | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | wait, we're talking about gerrit right? | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | ayoung: launchpad and gerrit work differently | 16:52 |
| ayoung | starting with launchpad first | 16:52 |
| ayoung | https://launchpad.net/~oslo-policy-core | 16:52 |
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| ayoung | hadn't gotten as far as Gerrit yet. | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | ok, apparently some of the oslo-specific details got lost when I extracted that documentation from the wiki to move to the infra manual | 16:53 |
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| dhellmann | the maintainer on lp should be https://launchpad.net/~oslo-drivers | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | and the driver should also be the same | 16:53 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, Um. Not quite, as that rules me out | 16:54 |
| ayoung | Oh, wait, drivers? | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 16:54 |
| ayoung | Isn't that like the galactic list? | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | we're going to have to talk about this later, ayoung, we're running out of time | 16:54 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, that is fine. I was just working through the list | 16:55 |
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| dhellmann | #topic notification dispatcher filter | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "notification dispatcher filter (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:55 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo.messaging/+spec/notification-dispatcher-filter | 16:55 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, if you update the doc and ping me, I'll take it from there | 16:55 |
| dhellmann | it looks like I blocked the patch for this until the namespace package changes merge into oslo.messaging | 16:55 |
| dhellmann | sileht? | 16:55 |
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| sileht | dhellmann, I have just propose a patch | 16:55 |
| sileht | dhellmann, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146547/ | 16:56 |
| dhellmann | sileht: ok, do you think this work will complete for k-2? | 16:56 |
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| sileht | I hope to release a new version of oslo.messaging for k-2 | 16:56 |
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| dhellmann | ayoung: the vmware lib sets a precedent for having a separate set of drivers so go ahead with that plan | 16:57 |
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| sileht | dhellmann, if my change works work you can squash it into your change and they we can release a new version | 16:57 |
| ayoung | dhellmann, will do | 16:57 |
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| dhellmann | sileht: ok, rebasing those namespace changes is pretty painful but I'll give it a try | 16:57 |
| dhellmann | oh, squash, I see | 16:57 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I see what you're doing | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | ok, sileht, if this works it should let us unblock the notification dispatcher | 16:58 |
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| dhellmann | #topic application-agnostic logging parameters in format strings | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo.log/+spec/app-agnostic-logging-parameters | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | I think we can do this work after oslo.log has graduated, but not for k-2 | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "application-agnostic logging parameters in format strings (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:59 | |
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| dhellmann | it's in the lib, with next-kilo, so either way I think it's fine | 16:59 |
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| dhellmann | #topic semantic version support for pbr | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/pbr/+spec/pbr-semver | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | lifeless? | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "semantic version support for pbr (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:59 | |
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| dhellmann | I'll check with him on this one later, we're about out of time | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | #topic open discussion | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | one minute or so | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 17:00 | |
| dhellmann | oops, not even | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | I think we're in pretty good shape for k-2. We have time to finish quite a bit of what we have scheduled for then. | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| bknudson | thanks | 17:00 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 12 17:01:08 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-01-12-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-01-12-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-01-12-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 17:01 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: yes? | 17:36 |
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| vladiskuz_ | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jaosorior | <_< | 20:01 |
| jaosorior | >_> | 20:01 |
| hockeynut | o,o | 20:01 |
| jaosorior | <_> | 20:01 |
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| tkelsey | lol, where is everyone ... | 20:02 |
| elmiko_mbl | o/ | 20:02 |
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| jaosorior | I guess people are here, we just lack a moderator | 20:02 |
| jaosorior | and I don't know how to do it O_O | 20:02 |
| tsv | 0/ | 20:02 |
| rellerreller | o/ | 20:02 |
| jaosorior | o/ | 20:02 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:02 |
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| rm_work | is chellygel not around? | 20:02 |
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| rm_work | she's been handling the meetings for the past few weeks I thought | 20:02 |
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| rm_work | o/ | 20:04 |
| hyakuhei | o/ :D | 20:04 |
| alee | o/ | 20:04 |
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| chellygel | wait wait wait | 20:04 |
| jaosorior | *mob mode loading...* | 20:04 |
| chellygel | i got it | 20:04 |
| hyakuhei | All these cats and no herders! | 20:04 |
| chellygel | #startmeeting Barbican | 20:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 12 20:04:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is chellygel. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:04 |
| hockeynut | ^C mob load aborted | 20:04 |
| jaosorior | yay | 20:05 |
| chellygel | #topic rollcall | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:05 | |
| rm_work | \o/ | 20:05 |
| tkelsey | o/ | 20:05 |
| hockeynut | o/ | 20:05 |
| jvrbanac | o/ | 20:05 |
| elmiko_mbl | o/ | 20:05 |
| woodster_ | o/ | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | o/ | 20:05 |
| tsv | o/ | 20:05 |
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| chellygel | hey everyone. .. uhh | 20:05 |
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| chellygel | "Thats a lot of barbicaneers today" | 20:05 |
| jaosorior | o/ | 20:06 |
| chellygel | "as usual, you can find the agenda for today's meeting here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican" | 20:06 |
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| jaosorior | chellygel: lol, really? | 20:06 |
| rellerreller | o/ | 20:06 |
| chellygel | I was unaware that i would be today's meeting leader, so i apologize for being disorganized! | 20:06 |
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| chellygel | #topic Castellan progress | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Castellan progress (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:07 | |
| rm_work | I assumed redrobot would be back.... so yeah | 20:07 |
| jaosorior | hahaha nah, just laughing at the quotes you used, anyway | 20:07 |
| rm_work | no biggie | 20:07 |
| rm_work | which I guess means this is just me | 20:07 |
| chellygel | Today's first stopic is about Castellan's progress via redrobot and rm_work | 20:07 |
| rm_work | So... I don't actually know what the progress is. I was hoping we could figure that out today. | 20:07 |
| rm_work | Also, maybe set out a tentative timeline | 20:07 |
| jaosorior | O_O | 20:07 |
| rellerreller | Who is working on Castellan? | 20:08 |
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| rm_work | Someone at JHU was supposedly writing the first draft of the spec for the main bits of Castellan? | 20:08 |
| rm_work | I don't know WHO that is though, that was all I know | 20:08 |
| rellerreller | haha | 20:08 |
| hyakuhei | lol | 20:08 |
| rm_work | I got my info secondhand from redrobot | 20:08 |
| chellygel | we may have to table it to discuss with redrobot upon his return. | 20:08 |
| rm_work | I am (AFAIK) adding on to that with the Certificate/Container bits | 20:08 |
| rellerreller | For those who don't know I represent JHU, so this is interesting | 20:08 |
| chellygel | surprise work item rellerreller ! | 20:09 |
| rm_work | Ok, I think the hope was that we could figure out who was doing the spec, which would be the blocker for any real work on this | 20:09 |
| rellerreller | I thought the first release was going to include the code from Cinder and Nova | 20:09 |
| rm_work | because the second part would be deciding if we could get something usable for K release | 20:09 |
| rm_work | rellerreller: possibly, that would be ok since I modeled my Cert stuff on the cinder code | 20:09 |
| rm_work | but we need a spec for it regardless | 20:09 |
| chellygel | i think it is best to wait until we can get confirmation from redrobot before moving forward with this. I wouldn't want us to misinterpret | 20:09 |
| rellerreller | We have been waiting for redrobot to copy that code into Castellan | 20:09 |
| rm_work | ok | 20:10 |
| rellerreller | Sounds good to me | 20:10 |
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| rm_work | well, he did say that one possibility was that we do some work on this in the latter part of the Barbican meetup in Feb | 20:10 |
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| rm_work | I should be available for that week | 20:10 |
| rellerreller | We have been wondering what was going on with that and are very interested to see progress | 20:10 |
| rm_work | yeah, we just need to get the conversation going so this doesn't stall out | 20:10 |
| chellygel | Okay i have made a note here for redrobot | 20:10 |
| rellerreller | We would like to see Castellan integrated with Cinder and Nova soon | 20:10 |
| * rm_work shakes fist at redrobot | 20:10 | |
| chellygel | would you guys like me to copy you on the e-mail? | 20:11 |
| rm_work | rellerreller: yes, I'd like to get Neutron-LBaaS and Octavia on it sooner than later | 20:11 |
| rm_work | yes plox :P | 20:11 |
| rellerreller | yes | 20:11 |
| chellygel | any other discussion on this topic before we move on? | 20:11 |
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| chellygel | alright then | 20:11 |
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| chellygel | tkelsey, are you present ? | 20:12 |
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| tkelsey | yup :) | 20:12 |
| chellygel | fantastic | 20:12 |
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| chellygel | #topic KMIP secret Store HSM connection certificates | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "KMIP secret Store HSM connection certificates (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:12 | |
| tkelsey | so this is about this patch here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135217/13 | 20:12 |
| tkelsey | I just wanted to get some more eyes (and cores) to look at it, since its quite important to us and has been sitting for a while | 20:13 |
| chellygel | do i have any volunteers that would like to be assigned this action item? | 20:13 |
| chellygel | (chellygel doesn't play games in meetings 8) ) | 20:13 |
| tkelsey | since mentioning it in the Barbican room earlier I have had some more input and will upload a new version, but would like to answer any questions people have about it | 20:13 |
| jvrbanac | tkelsey, yikes! Yeah, we need to look at that | 20:13 |
| chellygel | jvrbanac, is that a volunteering i see? | 20:14 |
| rellerreller | It's a nice feature to have | 20:14 |
| chellygel | any other reviewers wish to volunteer for this action item? | 20:14 |
| jvrbanac | tkelsey, did you want to make those changes before more people looked at it? | 20:15 |
| jaosorior | I already +1ed it, but could take a look at the new patch set if it's still there tomorrow morning | 20:15 |
| tsv | o/ i will also review that | 20:15 |
| jvrbanac | chellygel, yeah I'll take a look | 20:15 |
| woodster_ | I noticed reaperhulk added a good comment on file permissions. | 20:15 |
| jaosorior | unless you upload the new patchset within the next hour | 20:15 |
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| tkelsey | the new patch will just change the failure test to have proper file permissions, as per the comments | 20:15 |
| woodster_ | I'm curious, should the code be in the business of checking such permissions? | 20:15 |
| woodster_ | ...or is that a deployment concern? | 20:16 |
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| tkelsey | I did want to ask people here about the POSIX requirement mentioned as well | 20:16 |
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| woodster_ | for example, we don't do such checks for the hsm configs and libs | 20:16 |
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| tkelsey | woodster_: Im not apposed to removing the test entirely, if people feel its not appropriate | 20:17 |
| chellygel | (thank you tsv) | 20:17 |
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| alee | tkelsey, we have the same kinds of parameters in dogtag - and don't do these kinds of checks | 20:18 |
| jaosorior | I have no problem with the POSIX orientation | 20:18 |
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| jaosorior | * direction...or whatever | 20:18 |
| woodster_ | To reaperhulk's point, what about windows? Or other custom deployments? It would probably be better to have a deployment guide to deal with these things, which I think is planned for Kilo release at somepoint | 20:18 |
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| tkelsey | so it seems people feel these checks are not appropriate then? | 20:19 |
| hyakuhei | So there’s good precendent for other applications doing this | 20:20 |
| hyakuhei | Namely openSSH | 20:20 |
| woodster_ | well, I just added a comment to the CR...I don't think we have all the reviewers in this IRC right now | 20:20 |
| hyakuhei | Maybe logging a warning would be appropriate? | 20:20 |
| jaosorior | not to sound close-minded or anthing, but, Is there anyone that will actually deploy this in a non-unix-based system? | 20:21 |
| bknudson | could have a config option so if they want to be less secure it's their option. | 20:21 |
| woodster_ | It seems if we do it in one place, we should do it everywhere, so for all config files used by Barbican...in which case it would be good to leverage a lib to help out if possible. | 20:21 |
| hyakuhei | Ok | 20:21 |
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| tkelsey | woodster_: yeah I see your point | 20:22 |
| hyakuhei | but that sounds like bike shedding. Why not get it right in one place and then see if it makes sense to do it everywhere. | 20:22 |
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| woodster_ | just seems like it opens a can of worms, and I think each deployment is potentially different, including for a dev-only deployment with no permissions restrictions | 20:22 |
| woodster_ | that | 20:22 |
| hyakuhei | Sure | 20:22 |
| hyakuhei | How would simply logging a warning break anything? | 20:22 |
| woodster_ | that's fine with me...I've added a comment to the CR to spur discussion anyway | 20:22 |
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| hyakuhei | Deployment choice then becomes around ignoring warnings rather than accidentally having bad permissions :) | 20:23 |
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| woodster_ | logging a warning would be fine/good to do, but may not fire a warning in all deployment scenarios | 20:23 |
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| woodster_ | ok with that though | 20:23 |
| tkelsey | humm, yeah a warning I like the idea of a warning over removing them | 20:23 |
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| woodster_ | sounds good to me | 20:24 |
| tkelsey | this has been a good discussion, thanks all :) I'll update to add the warning and check real permissions in the failure tests (that wont actually fail now I guess) | 20:24 |
| tkelsey | ok, I think that covers it for me | 20:25 |
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| chellygel | is there anything else you'd like to discuss on this topic (anyone)? | 20:25 |
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| woodster_ | you can check that expected log messages are output though...I did that for some of the repository tests I recall | 20:25 |
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| tkelsey | woodster_: sure, i'll do that | 20:25 |
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| chellygel | is it cycling everyone out, whats going on here O_o | 20:26 |
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| woodster_ | looks like a lot of folks were kicked off IRC? alee are you there? | 20:26 |
| tkelsey | erg, something up with connections? | 20:26 |
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| chellygel | before moving on, i'd like to wait 5 minutes to see if everyone reconnects | 20:26 |
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| tkelsey | chellygel: +1 | 20:27 |
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| redrobot | o/ | 20:27 |
| chellygel | hey redrobot | 20:27 |
| chellygel | you have an action item! we are currently holding off until everyone reconnects | 20:27 |
| woodster_ | waiting on folks to reconnect | 20:27 |
| chellygel | we just had a huge irc reconenct party. | 20:28 |
| redrobot | chellygel thanks for being on the ball... | 20:28 |
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| * redrobot hangs head in shame | 20:28 | |
| woodster_ | I'm assuming they didn't table flip on us! | 20:28 |
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| chellygel | looks like we are starting to get everyone back! | 20:30 |
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| jvrbanac | ALL THE REJOINS! | 20:30 |
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| woodster_ | so alee will do it all then, it's decided! | 20:30 |
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| woodster_ | great discussion :) | 20:30 |
| tkelsey | lol | 20:30 |
| chellygel | welcome back everyone :) | 20:30 |
| chellygel | we will be resuming the meeting here in a minute | 20:30 |
| alee | woodster_, hey now .. | 20:30 |
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| rm_work | am I back? | 20:31 |
| chellygel | you are back rm_work | 20:31 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, yes | 20:31 |
| alee | rm_work, well, if you see this then I'm back too | 20:31 |
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| chellygel | Okay everyone, lets kick this back in gear | 20:31 |
| chellygel | We were wrapping up the KMIP discussion with tkelsey | 20:31 |
| chellygel | does anyone have any questions before we move on? | 20:31 |
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| chellygel | If the group wishes, i'd like to revisit the castallan discussion since redrobot has returned | 20:32 |
| rm_work | :P | 20:32 |
| rm_work | i do alee :P | 20:32 |
| redrobot | yeah, catching up on that right now | 20:32 |
| redrobot | is rellerreller back? | 20:32 |
| rellerreller | back | 20:32 |
| rellerreller | Never left | 20:32 |
| rm_work | ohai redrobot | 20:32 |
| chellygel | #topic Castellan progress | 20:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Castellan progress (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:33 | |
| redrobot | there was definitely some misunderstanding. I was under the impression that rellerreller had someone waiting to submit code to the repo once it went live | 20:33 |
| redrobot | which it has | 20:33 |
| rellerreller | We can submit code, but we did not know the process for that | 20:33 |
| redrobot | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/castellan/ | 20:33 |
| rm_work | I assume... gerrit? :P | 20:33 |
| rellerreller | We thought you were going to do that | 20:34 |
| jvrbanac | rm_work, yes | 20:34 |
| woodster_ | ¯\(°_o)/¯ | 20:34 |
| rellerreller | OK, well we can start to work on that | 20:34 |
| rm_work | are we just throwing the Cinder code in there? | 20:34 |
| rm_work | or are we doing some specs first | 20:34 |
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| rellerreller | What are the logistics in terms of project management for Castellan? | 20:34 |
| rm_work | I thought there were going to be specs first, but we can skip that if people want to just throw code at it | 20:35 |
| jvrbanac | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/castellan,n,z | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | Who are the core reviewers? Where do we discuss Castellan items? | 20:35 |
| rm_work | basically what I figured was we'd use Cinder code for the base and Octavia code for Certs | 20:35 |
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| rm_work | and move from there to more generically "Containers" | 20:35 |
| rm_work | or IMO just keep adding the specifics | 20:35 |
| jvrbanac | rellerreller, it's apart of the key management group, so same reviewers | 20:35 |
| rm_work | rather than trying to make one huge generic interface that is shitty for everything :P | 20:35 |
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| rm_work | key management group is.... you guys, right? | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | Maybe some specs would be good then because we are interested in the new certs interface and container changes. | 20:36 |
| redrobot | rellerreller castellan is a part of the Barbican "program", so core reviewers are the same as barbican core | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | OK, sounds good to me | 20:36 |
| redrobot | castellan should be discussed here during these meetings, and also on #openstack-barbican | 20:37 |
| rm_work | part of me would like to see the base code go in as-is, and then see if we need to bother with specs, since it should be very little effort to put that code in (it's all written)... if it works, great, if not, redoing it doesn't waste much effort | 20:37 |
| rellerreller | So do we want specs first or code? | 20:37 |
| redrobot | bugs and blueprints are tracked on launchpad | 20:37 |
| redrobot | #link https://launchpad.net/castellan | 20:37 |
| rellerreller | rm_work +1 | 20:37 |
| rm_work | this really was born out of a code-reuse issue, not a "we don't know what we're doing" issue | 20:38 |
| rellerreller | I would like to see code that is already accepted get into the repo and then propose specs from there | 20:38 |
| woodster_ | if we think the cinder code is a good starting point, seems a bp is not needed | 20:38 |
| rm_work | and cinder was my starting point for Octavia's cert code, which was modeled in a way that is complimentary to start with | 20:38 |
| rm_work | so it should merge right in too | 20:38 |
| redrobot | I think that a launchpad blueprint should be good enough to track for now. Not sure if we need to track these in the barbican-specs repo just yet. | 20:39 |
| rm_work | so rellerreller is someone there going to do the initial Cinder merge? | 20:39 |
| rm_work | if so, just let me know when that's up and I'll throw my stuff on top | 20:39 |
| rellerreller | What merge? I was just going to copy the code from Cinder. | 20:39 |
| rm_work | that's what I meant | 20:40 |
| rellerreller | Yes, we can do that | 20:40 |
| woodster_ | is a bp needed to startup a new repo though, to make it legal/official? | 20:40 |
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| woodster_ | wow, just got 12 lines of IRC in one instant | 20:41 |
| redrobot | woodster_ the repo is already started/official. It's ready for PRs. It should be simple enough to not need a spec, I think... | 20:42 |
| woodster_ | redrobot, agreed, thanks | 20:42 |
| woodster_ | so will there be projects using that for their kilo releases then? | 20:42 |
| woodster_ | ..per roadmaps anyway? | 20:42 |
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| rellerreller | If we get Castellan accepted then we would probably revisit our Cinder and Nova patches to have them link to Castellan. | 20:43 |
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| rm_work | I would get Neutron-LBaaS / Octavia on it ASAP | 20:43 |
| redrobot | rellerreller I recall you saying you had someone in mind to send patches to Cinder/Nova with castellan | 20:43 |
| rellerreller | Yes, bpoulos works on our integration with key management | 20:44 |
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| rm_work | ah yeah i remember speaking with him | 20:45 |
| rellerreller | In Atlanta? | 20:45 |
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| rm_work | just IRC | 20:46 |
| rellerreller | Her name is Briana | 20:46 |
| rellerreller | I'll have her hang out on openstack-barbican more | 20:47 |
| rm_work | AH :P | 20:47 |
| rm_work | I feel like I knew that and just forgot during my 3-week hiatus >_> | 20:47 |
| redrobot | rellerreller will you all be working on the barbicanclient implementation as well? | 20:47 |
| rellerreller | We have not been working on barbicanclient. | 20:48 |
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| rellerreller | We are stretched a little thin at the moment, but we can always move things around if we must. | 20:48 |
| rm_work | barbicanclient is related to Castellan? | 20:49 |
| woodster_ | did we decide it was ok to have a barbican client plugin/impl available in castellan? | 20:49 |
| rellerreller | It will be once we have a Barbican KeyManager implementation | 20:49 |
| rm_work | err | 20:50 |
| rm_work | OH | 20:50 |
| woodster_ | I see this note from Paris: "Put Barbican implementation into the barbican-pythonclient repository" | 20:50 |
| redrobot | woodster_ yes, IIRC the plan was to have the implementation in barbicanclient | 20:50 |
| rm_work | implementation in Castellan using BarbicanClient | 20:50 |
| rm_work | got it | 20:50 |
| rm_work | I can do that | 20:50 |
| rm_work | err | 20:51 |
| redrobot | rm_work other way around | 20:51 |
| rm_work | I would assume we'd want it in the castellan bit | 20:51 |
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| rm_work | err | 20:51 |
| redrobot | rm_work implementation of castellan in barbicanclient | 20:51 |
| rm_work | wat | 20:51 |
| rm_work | why would we want that | 20:51 |
| rm_work | Barbican is a subset of what Castellan can do | 20:51 |
| rm_work | not the other way around | 20:51 |
| rm_work | why would Barbican want to know about Castellan? | 20:51 |
| redrobot | rm_work the idea is that castellan is an interface only. | 20:51 |
| rm_work | well | 20:51 |
| chellygel | just a heads up, we have about 9 minutes left | 20:51 |
| woodster_ | I think one purpose of castellan is to insulate openstack projects from incubated barbican | 20:52 |
| rm_work | Castellan is an interface, but it's common for basic implemenation options to be included in the repo | 20:52 |
| rm_work | similar to how Barbican is an interface in many ways, but the plugins are in-tree :P | 20:52 |
| rm_work | that is basically how all of openstack works | 20:53 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, well, we had a dicussion about plugins in Paris too...see the 'plugin marketplace' section here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-kilo-roadmap | 20:53 |
| rm_work | hmm | 20:53 |
| rm_work | alright, maybe we need to discuss this offline | 20:53 |
| woodster_ | so I think castellan with a barbican dependency could be an issue for some project integrations | 20:54 |
| woodster_ | probably have to continue that discussion outside this meeting | 20:54 |
| rm_work | it seems pretty clear to me how it works, but obviously there is a sync issue here :P | 20:54 |
| redrobot | rm_work the idea is that not all projects will want to integrate with barbican directly. castellan is the common interface, of which barbican is just one implementation | 20:54 |
| rm_work | right | 20:54 |
| rm_work | Neutron-lbaas is an interface for many LB appliances | 20:54 |
| redrobot | rm_work someone may choose to implement castellan to talk to an hsm directly. | 20:54 |
| rm_work | most of their drivers are in-tree | 20:54 |
| rm_work | just because the driver is there does not indicate a dependency | 20:55 |
| rm_work | right | 20:55 |
| rm_work | redrobot: and they are not prevented from doing so :P | 20:55 |
| rm_work | in fact I would encourage their implementation be submitted to Castellan | 20:55 |
| woodster_ | I did sneak in two blueprint topics...mainly to try to capture the bigger open questions on two | 20:55 |
| woodster_ | essential blueprints | 20:55 |
| rm_work | we should probably discuss offline | 20:55 |
| rm_work | to see if we can get on even remotely the same page | 20:56 |
| redrobot | rm_work ok | 20:56 |
| redrobot | Almost out of time... | 20:56 |
| rm_work | plug for: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127353/ (I just put up some comments) | 20:56 |
| rm_work | alee: you have a new revision in mind yet? | 20:57 |
| rm_work | (per secret policy) | 20:57 |
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| redrobot | Also, a reminder that the Mid-Cycle sprint is coming up in February: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/BarbicanKiloSprint | 20:57 |
| alee | rm_work, I was waiting for comments to come in first | 20:57 |
| rm_work | alee: there's a fair share :P | 20:58 |
| rellerreller | The content types CR is out there, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145073/. It affects the API and secret stores, so you probably want to review cause other I might wreck your code :) | 20:58 |
| alee | rm_work, I'll likely look at them tommorow and add a new version | 20:58 |
| woodster_ | don't forget about the quota blueprint as well | 20:58 |
| alee | rm_work, I can work on it sooner if someone wants to start implementing it .. | 20:58 |
| rm_work | heh | 20:58 |
| chellygel | The action items today were as follows: | 20:59 |
| rm_work | I have several things on my plate right now, but I can definitely HELP... probably with the client-side work | 20:59 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, was that a 'yes' or really a 'heh'? | 20:59 |
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| alee | otherwise I'm wotrking on implementing ca stuff right now | 20:59 |
| rm_work | that's fine, we need the CA stuff too :P | 20:59 |
| chellygel | ** jvrbanac and tsv volunteered to help review tkelsey's KMIP HSM CR, (please volunteer your time to look this over!) | 20:59 |
| *** radez_g0n3 is now known as radez | 20:59 | |
| rm_work | in fact this is feeling much like the "Barbican-LBaaS" cycle | 20:59 |
| chellygel | ** rellerreller to start work on castellan | 20:59 |
| chellygel | ** rm_work to sync with redrobot for clarification | 21:00 |
| rellerreller | I'm on it :) | 21:00 |
| tkelsey | thank chellygel :) and thanks for the input all | 21:00 |
| alee | anyone else who would like to work on per-secret implementation -- I'm taking volunteers .. | 21:00 |
| chellygel | Please move the remaining conversations to the barbican channel in #openstack-barbican | 21:00 |
| chellygel | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 12 21:00:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| rm_work | chellygel is so good at this :) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-01-12-20.04.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-01-12-20.04.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-01-12-20.04.log.html | 21:00 |
| woodster_ | out of time I think :\ | 21:00 |
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