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| dhellmann | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 26 16:00:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| bnemec | o/ | 16:00 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 16:00 |
| sileht | o/ | 16:00 |
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| dhellmann | courtesy ping for jd__, dims, bnemec, flaper87, harlowja, viktors, rpodolyaka1, zzzeek, sileht, kgiusti | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping for redrobot, jungleboyj, zhiyan, therve, amotoki, GheRivero, bknudson, ihrachyshka, jogo, dougwig, sreshetnyak, amrith | 16:00 |
| jd__ | o/ more or less | 16:00 |
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| ihrachyshka | o/ | 16:00 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:00 |
| jecarey | o/ | 16:00 |
| bknudson | lol | 16:00 |
| ozamiatin | o/ | 16:01 |
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| harlowja_at_home | \o | 16:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 16:01 |
| dhellmann | I think we have quorum to start :-) | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #topic Review action items from previous meeting | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
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| dhellmann | #info bknudson to work on patch to add fixture for timeutils in oslo.utils | 16:02 |
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| dhellmann | bknudson: do you have an update on that? | 16:02 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: merged. | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | cool, thanks | 16:02 |
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| dhellmann | ok, that's it for old business | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146719/ | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #undo | 16:02 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x23c04d0> | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146719/ | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:03 | |
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| bknudson | for keystone, I'm wondering if there's a release of oslo.messaging planned with change to oslo_messaging | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | how are things looking? any critical issues? | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: we're currently blocked on that until we fix some issues in other projects where we know a release will break them | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | it's my highest priority item right now | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | I would like to have a release before the end of the week | 16:04 |
| ihrachyshka | cool, neutron would also like to see earlier | 16:04 |
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| bknudson | ok. I proposed the change to oslo_messaging in keystone already since it's easier to do in reverse-alphabetical order | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/oslo-messaging-1-6-0-blockers | 16:04 |
| ihrachyshka | dhellmann, end of week. sounds scary | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | some of the known issues have been dealt with, but when I re-ran the tests over the weekend I got more failures that I haven't debugged yet | 16:04 |
| ihrachyshka | bknudson, I'm going to do it with one huge blobs for all libraries :) | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: *before* -- if it isn't ready wed, we'll plan on doing it next week | 16:05 |
| ihrachyshka | /s/blobs/blob | 16:05 |
| bnemec | One of our sacred truths is that we don't release on Friday. :-) | 16:05 |
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| dhellmann | indeed | 16:05 |
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| * ihrachyshka bows with his stable maint hat in his hand | 16:06 | |
| dhellmann | we have a release of oslo.i18n coming, too, but it is also blocked for similar reasons | 16:06 |
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| bknudson | are there backwards-incompatible changes? | 16:06 |
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| dhellmann | oh, wait, no, that's not blocked -- I just needed to ask kgiusti if we actually needed to release it with the packaging change | 16:06 |
| * dhellmann is confused by his own notes this morning | 16:06 | |
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| bnemec | I hate when that happens. | 16:07 |
| * dhellmann also | 16:07 | |
| * kgiusti / | 16:07 | |
| * kgiusti ? | 16:07 | |
| bnemec | Had a very awkward moment once where I couldn't remember what my presentation notes meant. | 16:07 |
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| dhellmann | bnemec: yeah, I always write the presentation out long form, even though I don't read it on stage -- just in case | 16:08 |
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| dhellmann | kgiusti: there was a bug with a patch to oslo.i18n having to do with packaging, and I wondered if we needed a release for that. It looked like the sort of thing that I would have expected to see people clamoring for a fix right away, but I haven't seen that so I wonder how critical it really is. | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | ugh | 16:09 |
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| dhellmann | kgiusti: sorry, I meant jecarey | 16:09 |
| ihrachyshka | kgiusti, a link? | 16:09 |
| * dhellmann needs to start over | 16:09 | |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/146733 | 16:09 |
| bnemec | Mondays. ;-) | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | I'm going to blame the traveling I did last week. | 16:09 |
| * kgiusti :) | 16:10 | |
| bnemec | I don't really understand those patches, but Dan tells me they fix the problem. | 16:10 |
| flaper87 | we can use Mondays to blame kgiusti about world's problems | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll go ahead and cut a release later today | 16:10 |
| flaper87 | I'm sure he's cool with that | 16:10 |
| kgiusti | flaper87: get in line. | 16:10 |
| * flaper87 jumps the line | 16:10 | |
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| dhellmann | are there any other liaison reports, or can I go back to my meeting notes and stop extemporizing? :-) | 16:11 |
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| dhellmann | moving on then... | 16:11 |
| bnemec | Nothing for tripleo | 16:11 |
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| dhellmann | #topic Review MySQL driver decision | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | zzzeek, victors, rpodolyaka1: which of you was going to lead this discussion? | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review MySQL driver decision (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:12 | |
| dhellmann | hmm, none of them appear to be online | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | we'll reschedule that for next week | 16:12 |
| rpodolyaka | dhellmann: we are | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | ah, sorry, wrong nic | 16:12 |
| viktors | dhellmann: we made a wiki page | 16:13 |
| rpodolyaka | dhellmann: zzzeek prepared a wiki page | 16:13 |
| * viktors looking for link | 16:13 | |
| dhellmann | zzzeek did email me that he wasn't going to be able to make the meeting today | 16:13 |
| viktors | dhellmann: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PyMySQL_evaluation | 16:13 |
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| rpodolyaka | so looks like we are stuck with PyMySQL | 16:13 |
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| viktors | MySQL-Connector-Python looks the winner, but it missed on Pypi | 16:14 |
| rpodolyaka | though MySQL-Connector-Python is a better choice, except it's not PyPi hosted | 16:14 |
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| rpodolyaka | anyway, PyMySQL should be ok | 16:14 |
| bknudson | are all these projects well maintained? | 16:14 |
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| dhellmann | zzzeek, rpodolyaka, viktors : this wiki page has good information, thank you for putting it together | 16:15 |
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| rpodolyaka | thanks, zzzeek and viktors! | 16:15 |
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| viktors | bknudson: PyMySQL - yes, as for MySQL-Connector-Python - it's Oracle stuff ) | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | did you get input from clarkb and the other infra folks? I know they had some interest in the topic. | 16:16 |
| clarkb | no, I didn't manage to get around to that. Way to much travel and things on fire | 16:16 |
| rpodolyaka | viktors: we should probably start an email thread | 16:16 |
| rpodolyaka | with a link to ^ | 16:16 |
| viktors | rpodolyaka: agreed | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: ok, no problem | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka: yes, a mailing list discussion is a good next step | 16:17 |
| rpodolyaka | dhellmann: ack | 16:17 |
| clarkb | but looks like you reached the same conclusion as me (pymysql isn't perfect but it is pragmatic and solves a bunch of problems) | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | I suspect we will want a spec somewhere, but I'm not sure if it should be an Oslo spec or a cross-project spec. Let's worry about that after we see how the discussion goes on the mailing list | 16:17 |
| viktors | dhellmann: ok | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: yeah, I thought I remembered that as your position | 16:18 |
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| dhellmann | viktors, rpodolyaka : which of you will start that thread? | 16:18 |
| rpodolyaka | dhellmann: ok | 16:18 |
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| ihrachyshka | it's cool to see the initiative to finally move forward, even if with pymysql. I thought all my work was going to sink. | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: yeah, sometimes "big" decisions like this can take a while, because we want to make sure we have enough input | 16:20 |
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| dhellmann | #action rpodolyaka & viktors to start a mailing list thread discussing mysql driver change | 16:20 |
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| dhellmann | is there anything else on this topic, or are we ready to move on? | 16:21 |
| * bnemec will watch for the ml thread | 16:21 | |
| dhellmann | #topic Adding policies to specs repo | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/oslo-specs+branch:master+topic:policy,n,z | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding policies to specs repo (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:21 | |
| dhellmann | I spent some time on planes last week, so one of the things I did was some housekeeping work for us. | 16:22 |
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| dhellmann | I started a series of patches for "policies" that we have written down in the wiki, to move them to our specs repository | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | the idea is that this way we'll have an official vote recorded, and we'll have all of our policies in one place | 16:22 |
| bknudson | good idea. | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | the wording is mostly based on what we already had, but some were out of date from what I thought we were actually doing so I updated those | 16:22 |
| bnemec | Hey look, some of those relate to the topic I added to the agenda. :-) | 16:23 |
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| dhellmann | :-) | 16:23 |
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| dhellmann | as we get enough votes to approve them, I'll remove the old content from the wiki and replace it with links to the new location | 16:23 |
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| * dhellmann wonders if he should have written a policy approval policy | 16:23 | |
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| bnemec | Poliception | 16:24 |
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| dhellmann | I guess we can use the same voting rules that we do for other specs, and discuss conflicts on the reviews or here in the meeting as needed | 16:24 |
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| dhellmann | #action dhellmann write down spec approval policy in the specs repository | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | are there questions about that? | 16:25 |
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| dhellmann | ok, let's move on then | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | #topic Expanding the target audience of oslo.* libs | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130047 | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | bnemec, harlowja: You added this to the agenda. Who wants to go first? | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Expanding the target audience of oslo.* libs (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:27 | |
| jungleboyj__ | o/ Sorry I am late. | 16:27 |
| bnemec | So yeah, this kind of relates the the policy on oslo.config usage. | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | hi, jungleboyj__, no worries -- we should have time to catch up with any red flags you have during open discussion | 16:27 |
| bknudson | cinder meetup | 16:27 |
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| bnemec | Right now we basically say that if you use oslo.config you're in the oslo namespace and you don't expect to be used outside of OpenStack. | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj__ | bknudson: Yes, and the Austin site took me a while to navigate. | 16:28 |
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| dhellmann | yes, that's the one policy that was newly written down in that patch series | 16:28 |
| dhellmann | it's something I've been telling people as guidance, but I don't think I ever actually wrote it down anywhere | 16:28 |
| bnemec | harlowja_at_home's spec is basically a way to make it easier for other people to use oslo.config-consuming libs. | 16:28 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/149837 | 16:29 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ya, by using proxy helpers/objects that allow them to interact with said libraries | 16:29 |
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| bnemec | It's a significant enough change in policy that I thought it deserved discussion. | 16:29 |
| bnemec | Although now maybe we should have that talk on the policy spec. | 16:29 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I'll have to look at that proposal again. It wasn't clear how an application using a library would know what it could put in the data blob passed to the library without requiring the programmer to have intimate knowledge of the library's options | 16:30 |
| bknudson | I'm worried there's going to be several different ways to work with libs using oslo.config and every lib will use something different and be confusing | 16:30 |
| dhellmann | the proposal I had was to use a wrapper lib, so we might have oslo.taskflow that wraps taskflow and defines interfaces that use oslo.config directly | 16:30 |
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| dhellmann | and then taskflow itself would be unencumbered, but the knowledge of what options go where would only have to be written once | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | and applications using oslo.taskflow would not have to define configuration options themselves | 16:31 |
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| harlowja_at_home | possibly, a couple different ways to make this work | 16:32 |
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| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: the proxy idea is coming from the other direction, isn't it? so taskflow can use oslo.messaging and oslo.db, for example? | 16:33 |
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| harlowja_at_home | agreed, thats part of it | 16:34 |
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| bnemec | So maybe we need more discussion on the spec then. | 16:35 |
| dhellmann | I think the part I don't understand is how an app that does use oslo.config would pass info through a lib that doesn't to another lib that does, without assuming a global configuration object | 16:35 |
| dhellmann | nova -> taskflow -> oslo.db, for example | 16:35 |
| dhellmann | I think I'm a draft behind on this spec, though, so I'll read the latest and comment there | 16:36 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ya thats an interesting question to go through that many levels | 16:36 |
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| bnemec | Hmm, yeah. | 16:36 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: that's what we actually have, right? maybe not nova, but cinder uses taskflow, doesn't it? | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | ya, but they don't use the db stuff yet | 16:36 |
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| dhellmann | "yet" :-) | 16:37 |
| harlowja_at_home | ;) | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | or messaging or ... | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | anyway, that's the problem I think we need to figure out how to solve | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | my proposal doesn't address that use case, fwiw | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | at least not directly | 16:37 |
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| dhellmann | shall we talk more about that in the various reviews? | 16:38 |
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| dhellmann | moving on... | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | #topic kilo feature freeze | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054351.html | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | The general feature freeze date is 19 March, so I proposed that we freeze feature work in Oslo on 12 March. | 16:39 |
| harlowja_at_home | right, i start to feel that the above kind of stuff almost shouldn't be a concern; but idk, the point of having abstractions that hide the inner details of 'oslo.db' or whatever behind a higher-level api is well to not expose the inner details | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kilo feature freeze (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:39 | |
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| dhellmann | #undo | 16:39 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x2251a10> | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | #undo | 16:40 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x2251110> | 16:40 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, it works a lot better if we keep libs that don't use oslo.config at the bottom of the stack, instead of in the middle | 16:40 |
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| dhellmann | maybe that means refactoring some of what we have in our libs, or living with a bit of duplication :-/ | 16:41 |
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| dhellmann | #topic kilo feature freeze | 16:42 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054351.html | 16:42 |
| dhellmann | The general feature freeze date is 19 March, so I proposed that we freeze feature work in Oslo on 12 March. | 16:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kilo feature freeze (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:42 | |
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| bknudson | planning to do final releases of the libs that week? | 16:42 |
| bknudson | and then get into global-requirements. | 16:42 |
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| dhellmann | yes, we'll only do critical bug fixes after that point | 16:43 |
| dhellmann | and we need to freeze this cycle, and not land patches until we're unfrozen | 16:43 |
| ihrachyshka | cool. is oslo.log consumable till that point? | 16:43 |
| dhellmann | ? | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | we still expect to have oslo.log released by k-2 | 16:44 |
| bknudson | hopefully we'll get oslo.policy released. | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | dims and I have been working on a patch to nova to prove out the api | 16:44 |
| ihrachyshka | ok tnx | 16:44 |
| bknudson | btw - are you expecting oslo.policy to also follow that date? | 16:44 |
| bknudson | I don't know who's running oslo.policy | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: yes, everything will need to freeze | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | ayoung has been leading that effort | 16:45 |
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| bknudson | hopefully he knows the date and it'll be all ready by then | 16:45 |
| bnemec | Well, unless it's not released yet, right? | 16:45 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: true | 16:45 |
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| bnemec | Last cycle we didn't freeze stuff like concurrency that wasn't in use yet. | 16:45 |
| dhellmann | right, I should have been more clear on that | 16:46 |
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| bnemec | Definitely the exception to the rule though. | 16:46 |
| ihrachyshka | bnemec, in that case you should also tell liaisons what you think is not to be used the cycle, otherwise some of projects may migrate to those in k-2 | 16:46 |
| ihrachyshka | *k-3 | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: typically we support releases after we announce them, but that's a good point | 16:47 |
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| bnemec | Yeah, freeze would only not apply to libs that hadn't actually released. | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | we have not encouraged adoption of libs near the 3rd milestone in the past | 16:48 |
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| ihrachyshka | dhellmann, near - not really, but right after k-2 - totally possible | 16:48 |
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| ihrachyshka | neutron considers it for some libs | 16:48 |
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| dhellmann | ihrachyshka: early in the cycle we actively encourage adoption; later in the cycle we support it but make allowances for other work going on in the projects | 16:49 |
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| dhellmann | #action dhellmann document policy assumptions for library adoption among applications, including milestones and support for incubator code after graduation | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | can I get a volunteer to write a policy spec for the feature freeze? | 16:51 |
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| * dhellmann looks meaningfully at bnemec | 16:52 | |
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| bnemec | Heh | 16:52 |
| bnemec | dhellmann: So what would that include? | 16:52 |
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| bnemec | When and which code it applies to? | 16:52 |
| dhellmann | basically just that we freeze 1 week before the other projects and -- yeah | 16:52 |
| dhellmann | with appropriate reference links as supporting documents | 16:52 |
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| bnemec | I guess I did write https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo#Why_does_Oslo_observe_feature_freeze too | 16:53 |
| bnemec | dhellmann: So yeah, I'll do that. | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | cool, thanks | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | #action bnemec write policy spec on feature freezes | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | #topic Ongoing work & Review priorities | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/next-kilo | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/kilo-2 | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | Is anyone blocked on work we prioritized for this release? | 16:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work & Review priorities (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:54 | |
| harlowja_at_home | anyone want to look over | 16:54 |
| harlowja_at_home | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/debtcollector,n,z :) | 16:54 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ^ new hotness, ha | 16:55 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: added to my list -- would you update the oslo review dashboard links to include it? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo#Review_Links | 16:55 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:56 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: either jd__ or I can show you how to update the gerrit dashboard creator files | 16:56 |
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| bnemec | Oh, I should target my oslo.config deprecated opt change so it shows up there. | 16:56 |
| bnemec | I would like to get that in ASAP so we start notifying deployers when they use deprecated opts. | 16:56 |
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| dhellmann | bnemec: is there a blueprint or bug? | 16:57 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, ok dokie | 16:57 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home: I just updated that wiki page with a link to the source files | 16:58 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:58 |
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| harlowja_at_home | will adjust | 16:58 |
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| bnemec | dhellmann: Yeah. | 16:58 |
| bnemec | https://bugs.launchpad.net/oslo.config/+bug/1390408 | 16:58 |
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| dhellmann | bnemec: ok, I set that to kilo-next | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | we're about out of time | 16:59 |
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| dhellmann | good discussion this week, thank you all! | 16:59 |
| ihrachyshka | cheers! | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | lataaa | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 26 17:00:03 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-01-26-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-01-26-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-01-26-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| davidlenwell | #startmeeting refstack | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 26 19:01:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is davidlenwell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:01 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 19:02 |
| davidlenwell | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-agenda-1.26.2015 | 19:02 |
| sslypushenko__ | o/ | 19:02 |
| pvaneck | o/ | 19:02 |
| davidlenwell | The agenda for today. | 19:02 |
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| catherineD | o/ | 19:02 |
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| davidlenwell | okay.. lets get started.. | 19:05 |
| davidlenwell | First off.. folks from piston have been ignoring my request to give us control of the domain name.. im sure they're busy and I' | 19:05 |
| davidlenwell | m hoping they can get back to me soon.. | 19:05 |
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| davidlenwell | but in the mean time I've gotten frustrated and registered refstack.net | 19:06 |
| davidlenwell | this morning I am getting the api server running on it | 19:06 |
| davidlenwell | I'll then follow with a commit changing the default api url to reflect the new domain name. | 19:07 |
| catherineD | what is our alternative if Piston keeps ignoring us ... | 19:07 |
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| davidlenwell | we'll just keep using refstack.net | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | they have refstack.org | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | which would be preffered .. | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | but we might as well have all the refstack domains we can .. | 19:07 |
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| davidlenwell | I'd have picked up .com but its 1800 dollars | 19:08 |
| * hogepodge wonders who that would be payable to... | 19:09 | |
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| * davidlenwell also wonders.. its in a premium domain auction thing | 19:09 | |
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| davidlenwell | so the owner info is private | 19:09 |
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| davidlenwell | regardless .. we'll just use this one for now.. the domain was 9 dollars.. I'll just eat that and we can keep moving forward. | 19:10 |
| davidlenwell | #topic front end website | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "front end website (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:10 | |
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| davidlenwell | now that we have a domain name.. I will turn my focus on getting the copy we've been working on into html and make it pretty and put it up for review. | 19:12 |
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| davidlenwell | goal is to get to get to that by the end of the day. | 19:12 |
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| catherineD | we need at least the front page and navigation to the test results .. | 19:12 |
| davidlenwell | wow that was a funny typo | 19:13 |
| catherineD | :-) | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | yes .. catherineD it will be a one page site for now.. with information on how to view test results | 19:13 |
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| davidlenwell | lets move along.. | 19:15 |
| davidlenwell | #topic pending reviews | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pending reviews (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:16 | |
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| davidlenwell | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/refstack,n,z | 19:16 |
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| hogepodge | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/refstack+status:open,n,z | 19:17 |
| hogepodge | (open reviews) | 19:17 |
| davidlenwell | lets focus on the top 4 in that list | 19:18 |
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| catherineD | With the instruction in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149703/ I was able to build a refstack server , run tests with refstak-client , upload and view results | 19:18 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: I have already started to review both of your patches from this morning.. expect that to be done shortly after we are free'd up from this meeting.. | 19:19 |
| sslypushenko__ | hogepodge: If you don't mind I want to implement validation feature: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150097/ | 19:19 |
| davidlenwell | vladiskuz: I asked you last week to let me know here when you fealt that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149589/ was ready to test.. what is the status of that? | 19:19 |
| hogepodge | sslypushenko__ In general I don't mind, but if I don't get reviews in I won't be able to participate at a higher level in the project (per the meeting last week). But, I value expediency over status, and you'd likely be faster than me. | 19:20 |
| hogepodge | s/reviews/code commits/ | 19:20 |
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| hogepodge | sslypushenko__ I see the client work as my main priority right now, since I'm going to be working with vendors on using it. | 19:22 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: +1 makes sense for you to get as involved with that as possible | 19:22 |
| davidlenwell | as you're working with vendors moving forward I've like if we kept documentation on client ussage and trouble shooting up to date as well. | 19:23 |
| hogepodge | re 149589 That's a big patch. Can it be broken up? Not terribly important to me, just asking... you know, for a friend. :-) | 19:23 |
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| vladiskuz_ | <davidlenwell> I worked on the patch. I have some trouble with oslo.config | 19:23 |
| davidlenwell | I can spend some time and take a look and attempt to help if you like .. or hogepodge you are welcome to help out with it as well.. | 19:24 |
| sslypushenko__ | hogepodge Refstack-client is very important thing for us. It is quite tricky to use it on real deployment. So your work with vendors will be appreciated | 19:25 |
| hogepodge | Yup I'll do a review and test is locally. | 19:25 |
| hogepodge | s/is/it/ | 19:26 |
| davidlenwell | I know you are trying to build up your commits .. so please take any and all oppurtinity as well.. I also value expiediancy over status .. lets just do all we can to get this stuff landed .. | 19:26 |
| davidlenwell | the sooner we have that the sooner the api will be to keep deployed and up to date in production | 19:26 |
| sslypushenko__ | davidlenwell I think we will finish Vlad's tomorrow | 19:26 |
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| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: that is an acceptable timeline | 19:26 |
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| davidlenwell | So hogepodge your talk of helping vendors is a good segway.. | 19:27 |
| davidlenwell | #topic refstack-client (defcore) beta testing | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "refstack-client (defcore) beta testing (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:27 | |
| catherineD | one more | 19:27 |
| sslypushenko__ | I was a little busy for today. Try to run refstack-client on Mirantis-cloud-on-demand | 19:27 |
| catherineD | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149703/ | 19:27 |
| sslypushenko__ | Actual tempest config still is a biggest pain) | 19:28 |
| catherineD | please merge this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149703/ so sslypushenko__: vladiskuz_: can based on this one .... | 19:28 |
| hogepodge | catherineD I'll look over later today and leave a review. | 19:28 |
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| davidlenwell | yes catherineD I am in the middle of reading it.. have it open.. I think its a no brainer.. but I want to carefully make sure we are not missing any steps | 19:28 |
| hogepodge | Or you can just merge. I'll still try it out. | 19:28 |
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| davidlenwell | I'd like your review hogepodge before merge | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | since catherine wrote it im the merge vote on this one.. | 19:29 |
| catherineD | it is better that sslypushenko__: vladiskuz_: based on this one with the format change .,, easier later .. | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | okay so lets talk beta vendors.. | 19:31 |
| davidlenwell | I was in Seattle most of last week.. at the bluebox offices.. | 19:31 |
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| davidlenwell | We're ready to start running tests against our cloud in ci.. we even already have a tempest config worked out. | 19:32 |
| hogepodge | Last week I sat down with foundation staff and started working up a list of potential beta testers. This isn't final, some have been contacted, most not, so don't infer commitment from any of the listed names. | 19:32 |
| hogepodge | Bluebox is on the list, so glad you got a jump on that. | 19:32 |
| davidlenwell | we also have time set asside with q/a at piston to get to run the tests as well.. | 19:32 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: hogepodge: great | 19:32 |
| davidlenwell | which is why im pushing so hard to have the api up and running on refstack.net today | 19:32 |
| hogepodge | Want a mix of public clouds and distros. Based largely on interest, some from this group. | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | I want to have the kinks worked out and vendors posting to it by the end of the week .. | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | we'd love to have a pub cloud to round things out | 19:33 |
| sslypushenko__ | I can provide result from Mirantis Openstack Express | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: any and all of those that have a presense in the bay area .. catherineD and I have discussed and agreed we'd be happy to show up and help them get going. | 19:33 |
| hogepodge | sslypushenko Mirantis is on the list too. | 19:34 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: how many vendors on the list? | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | great.. i think we should classify our own companies as Alpha users.. since we have inside people | 19:34 |
| hogepodge | I have a strong interest in working directly with everybody. This is feeding into efforts for defcore/interop. | 19:34 |
| hogepodge | This is not a set list, but: | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | so marantis ibm and bluebox will probably get more attention than anyone else.. piston will be our first real beta user | 19:35 |
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| hogepodge | public cloud providers: HP, Rackspace, Bluebox, Dreamhost | 19:35 |
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| davidlenwell | bluebox isn't a pub cloud .. just fyi | 19:35 |
| davidlenwell | hosted private cloud | 19:35 |
| davidlenwell | dedicated hardware. | 19:36 |
| hogepodge | private distros: Metacloud/Cisco, SuSE, Mirantis, IBM, VMWare | 19:36 |
| hogepodge | public/private cloud. Thanks for the correction. | 19:36 |
| hogepodge | Bluebox, Mirantis, IBM appear on the list because of our affiliations with them. | 19:36 |
| hogepodge | I had a meeting the Metacloud two weeks ago, they're on board. I'll be contacting the rest. Please send me contact information for the person in your company so I can start working with them and aggregating results. Will make my life a lot easier for collecting experiences and pain points. | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. well I'll keep everyone apprised of the status with the folks we've already reached out to.. in the meantime .. | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | for bluebox that is going to be me for the time being.. our team is really small (only 7 work on our openstack product) So I am the only spare resource at the moment. | 19:38 |
| davidlenwell | Steve Maxwell <steve.maxwell@pistoncloud.com> is who we're setup to work with at picton | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | piston | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | he's head of Q/A .. they plan on putting a refstack-client run in the nightly build process possibly.. | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | tenitively I'll be going into there office on friday to help them get a working tempest config | 19:40 |
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| davidlenwell | if we don't hear back about our domain in the time period I'll sit on someones desk in their office until I get an answer. | 19:41 |
| davidlenwell | lets move on.. | 19:42 |
| davidlenwell | time is short.. | 19:42 |
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| davidlenwell | #topic new spec: Add refstack-client capabilities mode. https://review.openstack.org/150114 | 19:42 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "new spec: Add refstack-client capabilities mode. https://review.openstack.org/150114 (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:42 | |
| davidlenwell | I wanted to give this spec a little of its own time.. | 19:42 |
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| davidlenwell | I consider it an important change and I'd like everyones attention on the review.. | 19:42 |
| davidlenwell | my comments will be added today.. I've already got several in draft. | 19:42 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: do you have anything to add to that? | 19:43 |
| hogepodge | My motivation is this: Right now the total number of api tests far exceeds the capabilities tests. | 19:43 |
| hogepodge | We have two use cases: run all api tests to see what people are using. | 19:43 |
| sslypushenko__ | I think that is a realy good idea | 19:43 |
| hogepodge | run capabilities test to see if you conform to some interoperability standard. | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: it was our intention early on to get as many results from as many tests as we can to provide data to defcore about any given cloud installation beyond what is currently in the core capabilites file | 19:44 |
| hogepodge | Right, both things are important. | 19:44 |
| davidlenwell | to get a real world look at what is actually being used to help weigh future additions to the list | 19:44 |
| davidlenwell | sure | 19:44 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: on the results display page, one can filter to only look at core ... | 19:45 |
| hogepodge | In the short term we have recommended capabilities and there's interest in proving that clouds can pass them. | 19:45 |
| davidlenwell | but I do like the idea that the client should have the abillity to get a focused short list of tests to run | 19:45 |
| davidlenwell | catherineD: the ability to shrink the list of tests will improve run times of the test | 19:45 |
| davidlenwell | so in certain conditions this is important .. | 19:45 |
| hogepodge | catherineD the problem is there are over a thousand tests that are run. This can take a while and has the potential to pollute the cloud it's run against. Plus makes people worry about negatives that may not matter. | 19:45 |
| catherineD | davidlenwell: agree from test time point of view and not from results point of view | 19:46 |
| davidlenwell | catherineD: agreed | 19:46 |
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| davidlenwell | It hink we can satisify this need by simply allowing the client to operate from a targeted list of tests.. | 19:46 |
| hogepodge | I have a goal of demonstrating defcore interoperability testing, and this is going to make that testing palatable for vendors. | 19:46 |
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| sslypushenko__ | We also can speedup test run if we remove -t key from ./run_tempest.sh script | 19:47 |
| hogepodge | Also helps us in debugging tempest tests and reaching the goal of generalized API reporting, which I think is very important for identifying capability updates. | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | I am going to say yes we want this feature.. but we also want to encourage vendors to run more than just the defcore tests | 19:47 |
| hogepodge | yes to both. | 19:47 |
| hogepodge | absolutely. | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | yes .. okay .. we are all in agreement .. | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | lets review the spec and get it landed and get the code in as fast as we can | 19:47 |
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| hogepodge | One is for now, the other is for the future and health of interop. | 19:48 |
| davidlenwell | lets move on.. | 19:48 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: The reason we have -t on run_tempest is for test repeatability | 19:48 |
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| davidlenwell | #topic existing spec: meta and uuid data | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "existing spec: meta and uuid data (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:48 | |
| davidlenwell | catherineD: lets go back to that point in open discussion | 19:48 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: this is the only way that the test is repeatable from run to run ... | 19:49 |
| hogepodge | The uuid/metadata spec is absolutely important to get through. | 19:49 |
| davidlenwell | its been a few weeks since I've posted an update to this spec.. last week I didn't have enough time to meet my commitment to get it posted.. I am going to attempt to make up for that and get it in by tomorrow | 19:49 |
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| hogepodge | Tempest tests fail on setting up networks. We can't pin and fix tests. | 19:50 |
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| hogepodge | I have a good working relationship with Matt, and I'd be happy to take this over and work with Sergey for getting his work in front of the qa team. | 19:51 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: give me until tomorrow before we do that. | 19:51 |
| sslypushenko__ | catherineD Will tests failed if we run them without -t flag? | 19:51 |
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| davidlenwell | hogepodge: I'm fine with off loading things when I don't have time.. but I've set asside today and tomorrow to catch up on refstack | 19:51 |
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| davidlenwell | hogepodge: I'd also like your input .. I'll get an etherpad going later today and share it with you | 19:52 |
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| sslypushenko__ | davidlenwell Any ideas how to fix issue with autogenerated tests? | 19:53 |
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| hogepodge | If you don't have the cycles it's ok to offload that work. I'm very interested in it, and it's been three weeks since an update, almost two since the last comment. | 19:53 |
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| davidlenwell | hogepodge: I'm on the same page as you .. but I'd like to get in this last cycle before passing it on .. | 19:54 |
| hogepodge | I don't want to keep getting into this cycle of "rush for an update then wait three weeks". It really needs continuous attention. | 19:54 |
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| hogepodge | I'm not trying to be a jerk. We have a very limited timeframe before Vancouver. | 19:54 |
| davidlenwell | I'm with you 100% .. lets work together to get it finished | 19:55 |
| davidlenwell | I just ask that you work with me and not around me | 19:55 |
| davidlenwell | thats all | 19:55 |
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| hogepodge | I'll work with you, but that means getting work done. | 19:55 |
| hogepodge | We can't afford to spin our wheels any more. | 19:56 |
| davidlenwell | we're pretty short on time .. catherineD will you talk with sslypushenko__ in #refstack | 19:56 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: yes.. lets do it .. today and tomorrow are the days that I have the time .. | 19:56 |
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| davidlenwell | I was thinking tomorrow morning is a good time to dedicate to that | 19:56 |
| davidlenwell | today I am a little distracted by getting the website up and api server deployed | 19:56 |
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| davidlenwell | (almost done with getting the api online now) | 19:57 |
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| catherineD | hogepodge: davidlenwell: while you work on the UUID spec, please consider the case of autogenerated test cases as mentioned by sslypushenko__: | 19:57 |
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| jaosorior | greghaynes: no +2, sorry dude :/ | 19:57 |
| davidlenwell | we will .. thank you catherineD | 19:58 |
| jaosorior | wrong chat, sorry guys | 19:58 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. lets end this and get out of the next teams way.. I'll update #refstack with status on the api server | 19:58 |
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| catherineD | BTW I have created this doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/12GUhUphBSzPuQqp7WreZ-DXaINnUWSrYAYb4CyPmpAw/edit | 19:59 |
| catherineD | to track tempest issues | 19:59 |
| davidlenwell | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 26 19:59:52 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-01-26-19.01.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-01-26-19.01.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-01-26-19.01.log.html | 19:59 |
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| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 26 20:01:13 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:01 |
| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:01 | |
| rellerreller | o/ | 20:01 |
| jvrbanac | o/ | 20:01 |
| elmiko | o/ | 20:01 |
| lisaclark2 | o/ | 20:01 |
| arunkant | o/ | 20:01 |
| kfarr | o/ | 20:01 |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:01 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:01 |
| jaosorior | o/ | 20:01 |
| reaperhulk | o/ | 20:01 |
| tsv | o/ | 20:01 |
| tkelsey | o/ | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | lots of barbicaneers here today! | 20:02 |
| redrobot | good thing because we have a full agenda | 20:02 |
| redrobot | which, as usual, can be found here: | 20:02 |
| SheenaG1 | o/ | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:02 |
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| hyakuhei | o/ | 20:03 |
| redrobot | ok, let's get this started | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | #topic KMIP MKEK | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "KMIP MKEK (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148948 | 20:03 |
| woodster_ | o/ | 20:03 |
| hyakuhei | TL:DR; We thought we were building something similar to the p11 plugin for KMIP | 20:04 |
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| tkelsey | ok, so this is the spec #https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148948/ | 20:04 |
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| tkelsey | ah redrobot got there before me :) | 20:04 |
| tkelsey | so I would of course like input on the spec | 20:04 |
| redrobot | ok, so I was looking over the spec earlier | 20:04 |
| hyakuhei | Then there seems to be confusion about if this MKEK mode of behaviour can be conducted through the current KMIP Secret Store | 20:04 |
| redrobot | yeah, I think there was some confusion on whether this would be new plugin or not | 20:05 |
| rellerreller | I think there is also confusion over how this differs from the P11/HSM secret store | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | We see it as being a completely separate plugin to the current KMIP secret store | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | in no way a replacement, just a different approach | 20:05 |
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| jaosorior | hyakuhei: Basically I had initially thought that this would be a KMIPSecretStore v2, so I proposed to tkelsey that he should present it here. But now it was cleared out that this will be a separate plugin | 20:06 |
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| hyakuhei | Clarification is always good | 20:06 |
| rellerreller | +1 to different plugin than KMIPSecretStore | 20:06 |
| tkelsey | I have updated the spec a moment ago to try and be more clear about thinks :) | 20:06 |
| tkelsey | *things | 20:06 |
| jaosorior | yeah, I gave the +2 to that spec, on the basis that this will be a separate plugin | 20:06 |
| redrobot | rellerreller This new plugin would be different from P11/HSM in that it speaks KMIP to the appliance instead of PCKS#11 | 20:06 |
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| hyakuhei | exactly | 20:07 |
| rellerreller | Do we need a whole new plugin for that or just tweak the p11 plugin? | 20:07 |
| hyakuhei | KMIP and P11 work very differently in places | 20:07 |
| jaosorior | rellerreller: I think that would make things pretty confusing | 20:07 |
| hyakuhei | and the kmip library doesn’t currently support the fancy features that p11 leverages | 20:08 |
| tkelsey | jaosorior: +1 | 20:08 |
| hyakuhei | like in-HSM session keys | 20:08 |
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| rellerreller | I agree with that. I was wondering what the pain would be because most of the business logic sounds the same. | 20:08 |
| rellerreller | For instance, create a MKEK then create a KEK for each project. Encrypt each key with a KEK. | 20:09 |
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| rellerreller | I was not sure how easy it would be to abstract talking to P11 or KMIP. If the answer is it's too much work then that is ok. | 20:09 |
| hyakuhei | The p11 plugin is massive | 20:10 |
| tkelsey | conceptually they are the same in that regard, I have updated the spec to reflect that, hopefully to make things clear to people | 20:10 |
| rellerreller | Just wanted to raise the question because seem similar. | 20:10 |
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| hyakuhei | One day perhaps things could be abstracted away significantly | 20:10 |
| hyakuhei | but the p11 plugin uses all of PKCS#11 functionality | 20:10 |
| hyakuhei | Our KMIP one wont use all KMIP functionality | 20:10 |
| hyakuhei | as most of it isn’t in the pykmip library yet | 20:10 |
| jaosorior | rellerreller: I actually did suggest in the summit having some abstraction for the MKEK model, that could later be used. Such as in this case. But was told it was a very premature optimization :P | 20:11 |
| hyakuhei | So the data flow and interaction will actually be different in a number of places | 20:11 |
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| redrobot | jaosorior maybe not premature anymore :) | 20:11 |
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| woodster_ | hyakuhei: so will encrypt keys need to exist unencrypted outside hsm? I haven't looked at details yet | 20:11 |
| jaosorior | I think we should have a couple of more plugins in there. And after seeing how that's working, I could submit a blueprint (if needed) for that | 20:11 |
| hyakuhei | Look people. Stop bike shedding, we want to build $thing. $Thing doesn’t affect your $thing and consumers aren’t forced to use $thing. kthnxbye! | 20:12 |
| hyakuhei | ^ is what I’d say in person if you could see my face and intonation | 20:12 |
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| redrobot | hyakuhei :) | 20:12 |
| tkelsey | given the size (and my personal lack of familiarity with PKCS11) I would like to consider any factoring out of MKEK as a secondary activity after creating the new plugin | 20:12 |
| jaosorior | kyakuhei: chillax | 20:12 |
| hyakuhei | The model we’re proposing is sound and if you can build an abstraction layer for MKEK type operations and others then that’s awesome and I’ll commit now that we’d modify our plugin to work with that too (if required) | 20:13 |
| jaosorior | Anyway, I think the plugin should go as is proposed at the moment. And we can think about refactoring later | 20:13 |
| tkelsey | jaosorior: +1 | 20:13 |
| tkelsey | :) | 20:13 |
| hyakuhei | but having spent some time looking at it, P11 and KMIP are quite different and there’s precious little reference implementations of KMIP | 20:13 |
| redrobot | jaosorior +1 as well | 20:13 |
| tkelsey | anyway I think its better to have to models of MKEK before trying to factor out comonality | 20:14 |
| hyakuhei | +1 | 20:14 |
| jaosorior | tkelsey: exactly | 20:14 |
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| redrobot | I'll just point out that documentation should be clear in describing the differences between this KMIP MKEK plugin and the existing KMIP plugin. | 20:14 |
| tkelsey | redrobot: agreed | 20:15 |
| rellerreller | agreed | 20:15 |
| tkelsey | if people think there is room to clarify the spec more in that regard then please drop feedback in gerrit | 20:15 |
| jaosorior | Well, this will be something such as... KMIPMKEKSecretStore... should the other plugin be renamed to something that reflects the model it uses? so it becomes more apparent | 20:15 |
| hyakuhei | +1 tkelsey do you think we can clarify more ? | 20:15 |
| hyakuhei | and maybe stop calling the p11 plugin ‘HSM’ ? | 20:15 |
| hyakuhei | As that is _super_ confusing for some of us :P | 20:16 |
| tkelsey | hyakuhei: I can give it another pass, but take a look at the stuff I just put up as well | 20:16 |
| redrobot | jaosorior I'm sure we'll get to bikeshed a name for the plugin class once the implementation is in review :) | 20:16 |
| hyakuhei | cool, thanks. | 20:16 |
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| jaosorior | hyakuhei: I agree it is confusing. But I guess it's valid as it's the only plugin supporting an HSM directly at the moment. | 20:17 |
| tkelsey | well not true jaosorior, since we have KMIPSecretStore now | 20:17 |
| arunkant | tkelsey: You have a document around how the data flows via sequence diagram in various interactions. Will that be worth sharing to provide clarification? | 20:17 |
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| jaosorior | lol, crap, forgot about that | 20:17 |
| jaosorior | nevermind then | 20:17 |
| tkelsey | arunkant: yes, I can find somewhere for that to live and link it | 20:17 |
| jaosorior | and we where just talking about it... | 20:18 |
| tkelsey | jaosorior: heh easy to do :) | 20:18 |
| redrobot | I think we're all in agreement? We can move on to the next agenda item | 20:18 |
| rellerreller | Sort of, but KMIP does not support cryptoprocessing | 20:18 |
| tkelsey | redrobot: +1 | 20:18 |
| jaosorior | yeah, I guess we can move on | 20:18 |
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| redrobot | #topic Content-Types Blueprint | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Content-Types Blueprint (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:18 | |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145073 | 20:18 |
| jaosorior | the rest of the feedback can go to the CR anyway | 20:18 |
| redrobot | rellerreller anything specific to discuss? | 20:18 |
| rellerreller | I actually did not add this item | 20:19 |
| woodster_ | I added these 3 blueprints | 20:19 |
| rellerreller | I was wondering who did | 20:19 |
| woodster_ | Just to get focus on them | 20:19 |
| redrobot | hehe, sorry rellerreller I just assumed... | 20:19 |
| rellerreller | I have not received any feedback on this | 20:19 |
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| woodster_ | Other than my comments any other issues folks have? | 20:20 |
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| jaosorior | I have some trivial questions there | 20:20 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: if you can just add the bits I noted I'll +2 | 20:20 |
| alee | woodster_, rellerreller -- I'll get back to that one today | 20:20 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ alee thanks! | 20:20 |
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| rellerreller | I think we should finalize it soon because I don't want to break all of the secret stores | 20:21 |
| rellerreller | before the next release | 20:21 |
| redrobot | I'll also try to get a review in today | 20:21 |
| woodster_ | That might do it for that blueprint then | 20:21 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:22 |
| redrobot | #topic Per-Secret Policy | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Per-Secret Policy (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:22 | |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127353 | 20:22 |
| redrobot | lots of red in that review | 20:22 |
| woodster_ | I tried to boil out the bigger question i saw | 20:23 |
| redrobot | Open question: Should whitelisted users be able to decrypt secrets even if they don't have proper Barbican roles? | 20:23 |
| redrobot | So the use case is, | 20:23 |
| redrobot | Bob does not have a role to access Barbican | 20:24 |
| redrobot | Alice grants Bob access to a single secret | 20:24 |
| redrobot | Should Barbican allow Bob to retrieve the secret? | 20:24 |
| redrobot | woodster_ is that an accurate tl;dr? | 20:24 |
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| woodster_ | So essentially bypassing the need for roles to be assigned to them, yep | 20:25 |
| tsv | redrobot, trying to understand, does Alice grant Bob access via keystone trust ? | 20:26 |
| rm_work | no, it's an internal barbican mechanism | 20:27 |
| rm_work | Trusts are not used | 20:27 |
| tsv | rm_work, ok. thanks | 20:27 |
| redrobot | tsv, no alice grants bob access via Barbican whitelist. Keystone unfortunately does not support entity-level ACLs | 20:27 |
| woodster_ | So could a Lbaas user be able to decrypt a secret that a client said they could access? That could be a service user with admin role perhaps...so maybe that's a 2nd question | 20:27 |
| arunkant | This seems to be bypassing openstack role based authorization model ..how this play with hierarchial tenants case? | 20:27 |
| rellerreller | So are roles now are admin, audit, observer, creator? | 20:27 |
| tsv | redrobot, got it | 20:27 |
| rm_work | I think it makes some sense to somehow tie a user's ability to access "anything in Barbican" to keystone | 20:28 |
| rm_work | unfortunately, the way roles work it really doesn't make sense | 20:28 |
| rm_work | since a role is a specific relation of a user to a project | 20:29 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: those are Barbican roles, different than the uber admin role which I think gives 'god' access | 20:29 |
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| rm_work | Bob -> Barbican:Observer -> Bob's Project | 20:29 |
| rm_work | what you REALLY want is: Bob -> Barbican:Observer -> Barbican | 20:30 |
| rm_work | but that isn't possible AFAIK with Keystone roles | 20:30 |
| rm_work | maybe there is a way to work around this? | 20:30 |
| woodster_ | rm_work: so in this case an OpenStack admin would have to grant a Barbican role to the Lbaas user/project association | 20:30 |
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| redrobot | rm_work I think the idea would be to check for Bob -> Barbican:(some_role) -> Secret's Project | 20:31 |
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| rm_work | redrobot: so they'd need a Trust *too*? | 20:31 |
| alee | woodster_, by that you mean the Lbaas service user? | 20:31 |
| redrobot | rm_work no, i don't think so | 20:31 |
| rm_work | for instance, LBaaS's user won't have a Barbican:Observer role for EVERY project that it has access to | 20:31 |
| rm_work | it could be thousands | 20:31 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, it would just need such role for its own project | 20:32 |
| rm_work | woodster_: right, that is what you keep saying, and *that* is what doesn't make sense | 20:32 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, with that role it could then access any secret regardless of if that secret was stored by a different user/projecdt | 20:32 |
| rm_work | right, so that isn't a good option either | 20:32 |
| alee | woodster_, so if I understand this correctly, roles are tied to projects? | 20:33 |
| rm_work | My argument is less "your goal is wrong", and more like "the approach you're proposing is wrong, and I'd rather not do it than do it wrong" | 20:33 |
| woodster_ | rm_work: the sequence is lbaas user with correct role GETs to barbican with a given secret URI ref...barbican check that the role is ok for decrypt, and then fetches secret by URI and decrypts/returns it | 20:33 |
| arunkant | rm_work: So you cannot have a barbican specific admin role and that allow access to all resources based on updated policy rules? | 20:33 |
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| rm_work | arunkant: well, maybe? but the idea for this feature is for more than just service-users, so trying to do something like that for random cloud users seems like it would be prohibitive | 20:34 |
| woodster_ | arunkant, the role policy is not tied to a project ID (currently anyway) | 20:34 |
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| rm_work | alee: roles are tied to projects, yes | 20:35 |
| rm_work | think of roles as a mapping between a user and a project | 20:35 |
| arunkant | rm_work: Yes..actually issue is entities are created/ managed under a project..so you need token scoped that project? | 20:35 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, how is that so prohibitive? We make every other direct client get roles assigned first | 20:35 |
| rm_work | like, three tables -- USER, PROJECT, ROLE | 20:35 |
| woodster_ | alee, roles are tied to the user/project assocations | 20:35 |
| rm_work | where the ROLE table holds the link between USER and PROJECT, but with an access type field | 20:35 |
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| tsv | this use case sounds kind of similar to the swift tempurl though | 20:36 |
| rm_work | woodster_: because it doesn't *do* anything, because 100% of cloud users will start with a Barbican role for their project -- so the only action from there is to remove their access to Barbican altogether so they can't access secrets that other people gave them access to | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | arunkant, currently secrets are tied to projects, but this blueprint would break that bond essentially. Now barbican would just look up the entity by its UUID as long as role policy checks pass | 20:36 |
| arunkant | rm_work: Can we allow privleged user to create entities under other projects via some project identifier | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, so if the lbaas user will have a barbican role, then we are done discussing :) | 20:37 |
| rm_work | arunkant: we're trying to avoid the concept of a "privileged user" (I am assuming you mean like a cloud-admin level user?) | 20:37 |
| rm_work | woodster_: it works, but it's *wrong* | 20:37 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, assuming you meant the lbaas user was in that 100% | 20:37 |
| rm_work | yes | 20:37 |
| alee | rm_work, woodster_ then I'm not I understand how roles are related to the case where you want someone (the lbaas service user) to gain access to a secret owned by a different project. | 20:37 |
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| arunkant | rm_work: Yes..something like barbican-service-admin and if someone has that role, then it can create/manage entities on other's behalf.. | 20:38 |
| woodster_ | alee, I was focusing on the case of Alice putthign Bob the user on the whitelist | 20:38 |
| woodster_ | alee, but that could work with projects on the whitelist as well | 20:38 |
| rm_work | woodster_: right, so returning to the metaphor, Bob does have a bank account, but it shouldn't matter | 20:39 |
| rm_work | just because he DOES isn't a good reason for the bank to ask | 20:39 |
| alee | unless you're talking about giving the lbaas user a role in every project for every secret -- allowing lbaas to access a secret because he happens to have a role in *some* project doesn't make sense. | 20:39 |
| rm_work | alee: right, that is what I am getting at | 20:39 |
| woodster_ | my overall point is that I think the role assignment resolved on any user/project assoc, regardless of the end resource they are acting on, should always satisfy barbican rbac policy constraints | 20:39 |
| arunkant | rm_work: Actually I have a similar issue on a Keystone spec where I am trying to provide optional backend for Keystone credential API to use barbican and have similar issue. | 20:40 |
| rm_work | alee: it *works* but it's nonsensical | 20:40 |
| redrobot | woodster_ sounds to me like you're trying to work around a policy enforcement limitation? | 20:40 |
| woodster_ | alee, no I'm saying there just has to be *one* user/project with the right role....it can access whatever user/projects are whitelisted for it...the original project the secret was created under doesn't matter to that | 20:40 |
| jaosorior | Lbaas having access to all the secrets would be a huge security concern. | 20:40 |
| rm_work | and I don't think we should move forward on the basis that "it works, so it must be the right way to do this" | 20:40 |
| alee | woodster_, I like rm_work's analogy. Just because lbaas has a bank account doesn't really mean anything | 20:40 |
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| woodster_ | lbaas user would only have access to the secrets it is whitelisted for | 20:41 |
| alee | jaosorior, they can't access any secret -- only the ones where they are whitelisted | 20:41 |
| rm_work | jaosorior: totally agree | 20:41 |
| rm_work | jaosorior: I was the one who started pushing for this to begin with | 20:41 |
| tsv | woodster_, rm_work, swift has the tempurl feature for an user to pass a temporary link to a container/file right ? isn't this scenario comparable ? | 20:42 |
| jaosorior | rm_work: from what I read, I agree with you | 20:42 |
| rm_work | tsv: possibly -- though the link needs to work essentially *forever* | 20:42 |
| rm_work | so not as "temp" | 20:42 |
| rm_work | and ideally there's still some user checking | 20:42 |
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| woodster_ | ok, so we are saying Alice must conform to rbac policy, but lbaas doesn't have to for secrets alice granted access to. Correct? If that's the case, then we will need to bypass barbican role checking for the lbaas transaction. | 20:42 |
| tsv | rm_work, i agree, but we could possibly look at that and just don't expire it ? | 20:43 |
| rm_work | I mean, the check "is this user a keystone user, who is not disabled" is still something I'd assume we would check | 20:43 |
| notmyname | rm_work: swift's tempurls are time-limited. but it's entirely possible to set a time of billions of seconds from now | 20:43 |
| redrobot | tsv IIRC ther is a feature in Glance where a user can share an image with another user. I think this use case is similar to that one. | 20:43 |
| alee | woodster_, so I guess your question is -- should the policy be --> role:observer(in some project) and whitelisted ? or role:observer(in secret project) or whitelisted | 20:43 |
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| alee | woodster_, is that correct? | 20:43 |
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| woodster_ | alee, not sure what the observer means there | 20:44 |
| rm_work | so woodster_: if the end-result of sharing a secret from user A to user B was that it shows up in user B's secret list as if it were his own (just without write permissions), then maybe that would make more sense? | 20:44 |
| rm_work | then he's really asking about his own secret -- if that makes sense | 20:44 |
| bknudson | how are you going to check "is this user a keystone user, who is not disabled" ? | 20:44 |
| bknudson | I don't think keystone has an api for that. | 20:44 |
| rm_work | bknudson: do we not get that for free by them HAVING a keystone token? | 20:44 |
| bknudson | rm_work: yes, you get that for free if you're using a token for the user. | 20:45 |
| rm_work | we check the token with keystone, but we're not looking for a specific role -- just not a 403 | 20:45 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, I think there was consensus that GETting a list of secrets would not get all the secrets I have access to, jsut those created for my project. | 20:45 |
| rm_work | woodster_: right | 20:45 |
| rm_work | I do remember that | 20:45 |
| rm_work | bknudson: does that really not work / seem difficult? | 20:45 |
| rm_work | it seems to me it should be *trivial* to validate that a user is a valid keystone user, via the token they send in | 20:46 |
| bknudson | rm_work: yes, that works. I thought the discussion was about having a different user check if some user wasn't disabled. | 20:46 |
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| redrobot | woodster_ I think that policy will need to be re-written to allow for the ACL white list. I think that requiring _some_ role just to satisfy the current policy is not the right way of doing this. | 20:46 |
| rm_work | ah -- no, just the service checking | 20:46 |
| woodster_ | I think the policy would have to be user-has-valid-roles-for-action OR user is on white list....I'm arguing for the AND there | 20:46 |
| rm_work | user-has-valid-roles-for-action OR (user-is-valid-user AND user-on-ACL-whitelist) | 20:47 |
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| redrobot | woodster_ so what is the benefit of requiring both _some_ role AND white list? | 20:48 |
| redrobot | btw we only have about 10 min left. We'll have to bump some agenda items to next week | 20:48 |
| rm_work | redrobot: allowing cloud admins to disable the user's access to Barbican completely | 20:49 |
| rm_work | redrobot: otherwise, cloud admins could disable the user's Barbican role to THEIR project, and assume the user couldn't access anything in Barbican | 20:49 |
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| rm_work | but the user would still be able to access anything that had been Whitelisted for them by others | 20:49 |
| rm_work | woodster_: correct? | 20:49 |
| arunkant | rm_work: +1 | 20:50 |
| rm_work | (I *believe* I understand what woodster_ is going for, and I don't disagree, I just don't think the way he wants to DO IT makes sense T_T) | 20:51 |
| redrobot | rm_work so, I would think that this would require a new role, specifically for Barbican access in general. Trying to use _some/any_ role to avoid having to specifically define a new role is what feels weird about this. | 20:51 |
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| rm_work | yes, essentially | 20:52 |
| rm_work | I think that might be ok | 20:52 |
| rm_work | if there was a "view-whitelisted-secrets" role | 20:52 |
| rm_work | that was separate | 20:52 |
| redrobot | rm_work +1 yes, that's what I'm thinking | 20:52 |
| rm_work | not sure how I missed that obvious solution :P | 20:53 |
| arunkant | rm_work..so with new role, how the client is going to create new resources (is it under same project?)...or this new role is just needed for reading and not writing? | 20:54 |
| rm_work | needed for any interaction with secrets that are not her own, I assume | 20:54 |
| redrobot | arunkant it would be a role that is needed for read only, and it only applies to secrets that were shared via the whitelist. | 20:54 |
| arunkant | rm_work: then don't you need token scoped to that project for creating it | 20:55 |
| redrobot | arunkant creating secrets isn't changed by this feature | 20:55 |
| redrobot | arunkant the whitelist acl only applies to secrets that have already been craeted and are being shared with another user | 20:55 |
| redrobot | we're running out of time | 20:56 |
| redrobot | and I think we may have lost woodster_ ... | 20:56 |
| arunkant | redrobot: okay..that's why I asked whether its for writing or not?. | 20:56 |
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| alee | rm_work, redrobot this seems reasonable to me | 20:57 |
| rm_work | I … guess not for writing | 20:57 |
| rm_work | though IIRC there was something about read-only and not-read-only in the spec | 20:57 |
| rm_work | would have to reread | 20:57 |
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| redrobot | yeah, I think we'll need to revisit this next week to make sure woodster_ agrees | 20:57 |
| rm_work | but not-read-only would be weird since you can't WRITE to anything currently in Barbican <_< | 20:57 |
| tsv | redrobot, i got to run for another meeting too. i know woodster added the next agenda for quota | 20:57 |
| redrobot | tsv yeah, we're out of time. we'll revisit everything we didn't get to next week | 20:58 |
| rm_work | I *think* we got a decent solution/consensus so hopefully woodster will be good with this | 20:58 |
| redrobot | thanks for joining everyone. | 20:58 |
| rm_work | sorry for taking the whole meeting :P | 20:58 |
| redrobot | rm_work no worries, that's what these meetings are for :) | 20:58 |
| rm_work | err -- at least half of it | 20:58 |
| tsv | redrobot, sure. thanks | 20:58 |
| rm_work | alright, thanks guys | 20:58 |
| rm_work | and gals | 20:58 |
| rm_work | ;) | 20:58 |
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| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 26 20:59:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-01-26-20.01.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-01-26-20.01.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-01-26-20.01.log.html | 20:59 |
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