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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 19 15:00:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
| ganso_ | hi | 15:00 |
| *** ativelkov has left #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:00 | |
| xyang2 | hi | 15:00 |
| bswartz | hello | 15:00 |
| marcusvrn | hi | 15:00 |
| vponomaryov | hello | 15:00 |
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| bswartz | welcome back all! | 15:00 |
| tbarron | hi | 15:00 |
| bswartz | I hope you enjoyed the midcycle meetup | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | I'm feeling better now and my voice has recovered | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | hmm the agenda isn't really accurate | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | but let's start with dev status | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #topic dev status | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dev status (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| vponomaryov | dev status: | 15:02 |
| vponomaryov | 1) Support of Nova network within Generic driver | 15:02 |
| vponomaryov | BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/nova-network-support-in-generic-driver | 15:02 |
| vponomaryov | gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/155989 | 15:02 |
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| vponomaryov | status: ready for review | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 2) Volume types were renamed to share types. | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/rename-volume-type-to-share-type | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | status: merged | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 3) Manila now has "default" share types. | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/default-volume-type | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | status: merged | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 4) Keystone session support in manilaclient | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-manilaclient/+spec/add-keystone-session-support | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/153599 | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | status: ready for review | 15:03 |
| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:03 |
| bswartz | (I fixed it up) | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | that's the main | 15:04 |
| bswartz | thanks vponomaryov | 15:04 |
| *** dimtruck is now known as zz_dimtruck | 15:04 | |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: what else big is coming before the feature freeze? | 15:04 |
| geguileo | thanks | 15:05 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: big? | 15:05 |
| bswartz | well, anything big you want to see go in | 15:05 |
| bswartz | I have my own list of stuff | 15:05 |
| bswartz | I've got my eye on this: https://launchpad.net/manila/+milestone/kilo-3 | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | I would like to see nova network plugin for all other drivers | 15:05 |
| bswartz | yeah | 15:06 |
| bswartz | you and I should talk about that one after the meeting | 15:06 |
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| vponomaryov | so, community can say do they need it or not | 15:06 |
| bswartz | I don't think we'll have a problem | 15:06 |
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| bswartz | other than nova plugin, anything you think is essential? | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | toher essential are fit k-3 | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | like updates of share types | 15:07 |
| bswartz | personally I want I see the multiple-export locations get into Kilo | 15:07 |
| bswartz | that was a big topic last week and I think it will benefit several drivers | 15:08 |
| vponomaryov | agree | 15:08 |
| bswartz | the question is whether it's something we can get done in the time we have | 15:08 |
| vponomaryov | it is in our task list | 15:08 |
| u_glide | Guys, What about private share_types? | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | u_glide: I'm not sure that will make kilo | 15:08 |
| bswartz | do you have the BP link? | 15:09 |
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| u_glide | not yet, I will create it | 15:09 |
| bswartz | oh that's already being worked on I see | 15:09 |
| bswartz | yeah we just need the BP targetted at k-3 | 15:10 |
| bswartz | #topic k-3 deadlines | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "k-3 deadlines (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:10 | |
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| bswartz | I just want to remind everyone, we're 2 weeks into k-3 | 15:10 |
| vponomaryov | why two? | 15:10 |
| vponomaryov | 4! | 15:10 |
| vponomaryov | march 19 is deadline, is not it? | 15:11 |
| xyang2 | 3/19 | 15:11 |
| bswartz | I meant it started 2 weeks ago | 15:11 |
| bswartz | so we have 2 weeks left to get code up | 15:11 |
| ganso_ | lol | 15:11 |
| bswartz | and 2 weeks after that to review/merge all features | 15:11 |
| ganso_ | you just scared everyone | 15:11 |
| bswartz | not a lot of time | 15:11 |
| nileshb | for bug fixes also? | 15:11 |
| bswartz | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule | 15:11 |
| vponomaryov | nileshb: kilo-4 for it | 15:12 |
| bswartz | nileshb: features | 15:12 |
| nileshb | yeah ok .. thnx | 15:12 |
| bswartz | I'm just very nervous about the list of BPs | 15:12 |
| bswartz | this time around it won't be like the last 2 milestones | 15:12 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: do we have until 3/12 or 3/19 to get features merged | 15:12 |
| bswartz | where we just let things slips | 15:13 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: 3/12 is feature freeze | 15:13 |
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| bswartz | xyang2: we can merge features up to 3/19 | 15:13 |
| xyang2 | maybe that's for oslo | 15:13 |
| xyang2 | ok | 15:13 |
| bswartz | but we'd only wait to the last minute if it was essential | 15:13 |
| bswartz | if a driver isn't ready I'll retarget it | 15:14 |
| nileshb | any deadline for proposing new BP's? or is it already past? | 15:14 |
| bswartz | realistically we can't have multiple open things that last week | 15:14 |
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| bswartz | nileshb: I care about the code being on gerrit in a mergeable state | 15:14 |
| bswartz | if it's a feature for your driver, you're welcome to add a BP, but if the code isn't ready, I'll target it for liberty | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | if it's a core feature, the BP should be up right now | 15:15 |
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| xyang2 | bswartz: is there a hard requirement on percentage of test coverage? | 15:16 |
| bswartz | xyang2: no | 15:16 |
| nileshb | we want to support NFS Ganesha 2.2 with GPFS .. BP not yet created .. will create right away | 15:16 |
| vponomaryov | xyang2: just do 100% without asking =) | 15:16 |
| bswartz | xyang2: are you asking as a reviewer or a submitter? | 15:16 |
| xyang2 | vponomaryov: of course:) | 15:16 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: we got a review comment on that, just wondering how much is enough | 15:17 |
| xyang2 | 100% is ideal of course | 15:17 |
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| bswartz | I think we should try to push for test coverage as reviewers | 15:17 |
| bswartz | but judgement is needed | 15:17 |
| bswartz | we don't have a hard requirement | 15:18 |
| bswartz | 100% is the goal | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | sometimes there's code that just makes no sense to unit test though | 15:18 |
| bswartz | so I probably need to do a pass over the BPs on launchpad | 15:19 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: our DB functions are not covered with unit tests =) | 15:19 |
| vponomaryov | it works on honest word =) | 15:19 |
| bswartz | I'm nervous about the ones that say Not Started | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | we'll keep on reviewing that list as the deadline gets closer | 15:20 |
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| bswartz | today just make sure that nothing's missing | 15:20 |
| bswartz | I might need to add 1 or 2 | 15:21 |
| bswartz | so there's another topic | 15:21 |
| bswartz | #topic api extensions | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "api extensions (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:21 | |
| bswartz | this is something I wanted to discuss with cknight around, and he's not here | 15:21 |
| bswartz | so I think we can revisit it next week | 15:21 |
| bswartz | but I wanted to mention what it is | 15:22 |
| bswartz | we inherited a bunch of code from cinder, as you all know | 15:22 |
| bswartz | and one of the problems with the code is that lots of things are implemented as API extensions | 15:22 |
| bswartz | stuff that's really core functionality | 15:22 |
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| bswartz | now the cinder team is struggling with how to manage these extensions that are really core features of cinder | 15:23 |
| bswartz | and I'd like to avoid that fate | 15:23 |
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| xyang2 | I think we need to define what is core functionality. if it is core functionality, does that mean driver is required to implement it? | 15:23 |
| bswartz | so next week I want to come up with a plan for where APIs should go and how we plan to version stuff going forward | 15:23 |
| bswartz | xyang2: I think that's what cinder tried to do and failed pretty badly | 15:24 |
| bswartz | cinder has like 3 different ways of expressing whether a feature is a core feature or an extension | 15:24 |
| bswartz | and they don't always agree | 15:24 |
| bswartz | we need 1 mechanism, with a clear plan for how to move optional features to required and how to change things in future versions | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | so we'll talk about this next week when we have cknight because he has some ideas | 15:25 |
| xyang2 | ok, agree we need to have a plan | 15:26 |
| u_glide | Can we merge manage/unmanage without it? | 15:26 |
| bswartz | u_glide: without what? | 15:26 |
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| u_glide | Without plan :) | 15:27 |
| bswartz | u_glide: yes I think we have to | 15:27 |
| bswartz | it's what we've been doing, so it won't make anything worse | 15:27 |
| bswartz | but we should make things better before kilo is done so we don't lock in anything that we don't want to keep going forward | 15:27 |
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| xyang2 | bswartz: u_glide has moved it to extension | 15:28 |
| bswartz | that's okay I think for new features | 15:28 |
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| bswartz | but stuff shouldn't stay as an extension forever -- that's the problem | 15:28 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: so you are saying new api start as extension, and then we move it to core when it is mature? | 15:28 |
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| u_glide | sounds good | 15:29 |
| bswartz | xyang2: in theory yes -- but cinder said the same thing and it never happened, so I'd like to figure out the in practice part too | 15:29 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: ok. I remember that came up in cinder meetup | 15:29 |
| bswartz | yes that's what's driving my concern | 15:30 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: so the move will be internal | 15:30 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: interface won't change | 15:30 |
| bswartz | yeah that's a requirement | 15:30 |
| bswartz | we don't break backwards compatibility | 15:30 |
| u_glide | but probably we can create aliases and deprecate old api | 15:31 |
| bswartz | but we need a clear statement of HOW we will move to v2 when we decide to do that, and what that will mean for extensions | 15:31 |
| xyang2 | u_glide: Is that needed? I think rest api and cli won't change | 15:31 |
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| xyang2 | u_glide: do you have to change rest api when you move it from core to extension? | 15:32 |
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| bswartz | xyang2: I don't think so | 15:32 |
| xyang2 | It's just how API is discovered is different | 15:32 |
| u_glide | sometimes it's required to have consistent API | 15:32 |
| u_glide | xyang2: Yes, I have | 15:32 |
| bswartz | contrib APIs look identical to core APIs from the perspective of the REST client | 15:32 |
| xyang2 | bswartz:+1 | 15:33 |
| bswartz | it's a question of how they're documented, supported, and versioned | 15:33 |
| xyang2 | u_glide: implementation is different, but rest api doesn't change | 15:33 |
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| vponomaryov | xyang2: it is not in all cases, but can be | 15:33 |
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| vponomaryov | xyang2: presense/absense of something can make core functionality have or not some optional keys | 15:34 |
| bswartz | so I had one other topic that's not on the agenda | 15:35 |
| bswartz | #topic multiple export locations | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multiple export locations (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:35 | |
| bswartz | I think it's clear that everyone likes this idea | 15:35 |
| bswartz | there are questions about the details though | 15:35 |
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| bswartz | the main one is, how can a driver change the list of locations after a share is created | 15:36 |
| bswartz | imagine I have a glusterfs driver, with a 4 node glusterfs cluster | 15:37 |
| bswartz | when I create a share, the driver could provide 4 export locations | 15:37 |
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| bswartz | if I then expand the cluster to 6 nodes, the share *should* be reachable from 6 locations now | 15:37 |
| bswartz | but how does that fact get discovered and how does the database get updated? | 15:37 |
| vponomaryov | on periodic basis using new driver interface | 15:38 |
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| bswartz | my proposal is that we return a model update from ensure_share() | 15:38 |
| bswartz | so that at backend startup time the driver can make updates for ALL shares | 15:38 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: my concern with a periodic task is that it won't scale well | 15:39 |
| ganso_ | isn't a backend restart being required every time to update the number of export locations too much? | 15:39 |
| bswartz | because the periodic task would happen (number of backends) x (number of shares) x (task frequency) times | 15:39 |
| bswartz | ganso_: that's what I'm trying to figure out | 15:40 |
| vponomaryov | we can add API with possibility to force it | 15:40 |
| vponomaryov | admin knows when new nodes are added | 15:40 |
| bswartz | in theory changes to export locations should only be caused by network topology changes on the storage controller itself | 15:40 |
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| bswartz | that's something that happens incredibly rarely and the administrator would almost certainly know about it | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | an admin API would work, but what if the admin doesn't know about it or forgets to call it? | 15:42 |
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| ganso_ | I think the usage of the ensure_share function is great... but I think we may need to understand what could trigger the exports being updated, such as a share-server update, or a backend update... we do not have such scenarios right now | 15:42 |
| bswartz | it's something the driver should be able determine on its own | 15:42 |
| ganso_ | vponomaryov: +1 | 15:43 |
| bswartz | I just had and idea | 15:43 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: what if there was a period task that the manager called the driver asking it if the network topology changed | 15:43 |
| bswartz | and only if the driver says yes, then the manager goes and updates all shares on that backend? | 15:44 |
| bswartz | s/period/periodic/ | 15:44 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: manager and driver are running in same process | 15:44 |
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| vponomaryov | so each driver has its own manger | 15:44 |
| bswartz | yes, but the driver can't access database and enumerate shares | 15:44 |
| vponomaryov | can | 15:44 |
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| vponomaryov | every driver has attr "db" | 15:45 |
| bswartz | and the driver shouldn't make upcalls to the manager | 15:45 |
| bswartz | well they shouldn't be touching the DB | 15:45 |
| bswartz | if we can make that impossible I'd be happier | 15:45 |
| vponomaryov | it is another question | 15:45 |
| vponomaryov | they can | 15:45 |
| xyang2 | ya, driver can access the db without manager | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | xyang2: do any drivers do that today? | 15:46 |
| tbarron | but driver *should* not be doing that, right? | 15:46 |
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| xyang2 | bswartz: I don't remember in manila | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | maybe we should do an audit | 15:46 |
| bswartz | this is another concern we share with cinder | 15:46 |
| bswartz | drivers accessing the database is a bad thing | 15:47 |
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| bswartz | the manager should manage all interaction with the DB | 15:47 |
| xyang2 | tbarron: I think it depends. there are may be special cases where drivers needs to check. it should not be encouraged | 15:47 |
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| bswartz | xyang2: I think we can eliminate those cases | 15:47 |
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| vponomaryov | such cases are: update of DB in case of failure with data that can be used for resource release | 15:48 |
| tbarron | xyang2: I would like to find those cases and figure a clean way to avoid them w/o removing driver functionality | 15:48 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: yes that's a good case | 15:48 |
| tbarron | vponomaryov: yes, cause we don't get to the model update | 15:48 |
| bswartz | but we should be able to engineer around that | 15:48 |
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| bswartz | either by returning a model update before throwing the exception, or maybe even attaching a model update to the exception | 15:49 |
| bswartz | we should investigate the options | 15:49 |
| vponomaryov | it is already so | 15:49 |
| xyang2 | I think driver should not write to db, but read is fine | 15:49 |
| ganso_ | xyang2: +1 | 15:49 |
| bswartz | xyang2: what's a use case for that? | 15:49 |
| vponomaryov | manager already expects share server share data to push to DB within exception | 15:50 |
| ganso_ | my driver checks for other existing share servers | 15:50 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: I don't have a specific case, but sometimes it may needs to find additional info that is not provided by manager | 15:50 |
| bswartz | xyang2: my worry is that if that happens it maybe point to a design flaw | 15:51 |
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| bswartz | the driver is supposed to be stateless, and it should get all the info it needs from the manager | 15:51 |
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| bswartz | in cases like that the fix might be to make the manager pass in more parameters | 15:51 |
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| xyang2 | bswartz: at one point I had to make a performance enhancement for my cinder driver which requires driver access to db, but that problem doesn't exist any more. manager is handling it now | 15:52 |
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| tbarron | ganso_: if the manager gave you that info, would that work for you? | 15:52 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: I am not sure it is predictable enough to provide all data that can be useful for share drivers | 15:52 |
| ganso_ | tbarron: yes | 15:52 |
| bswartz | yeah we've had similar situations -- but as you suggested it was really just a workaround for a design flaw | 15:52 |
| bswartz | once the design flaw is fixed the driver no longer needs to do that | 15:53 |
| xyang2 | tbarron: so if the manager can do everything, then driver doesn't have to do it | 15:53 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: it should be an easy problem to bound | 15:53 |
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| bswartz | any given request should involve exactly 1 share, and everything related to that share | 15:53 |
| xyang2 | but there are cases we may need to fix the driver first | 15:53 |
| ganso_ | also, by using neutron_api (or network_plugin) to retrieve network information, isn't it the same as reading db? | 15:54 |
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| bswartz | ganso_: the network plugins exist to provide that abstraction | 15:54 |
| xyang2 | ganso_: I think so | 15:54 |
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| bswartz | network plugins do what they need to do so the drivers don't have to know anything | 15:55 |
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| tbarron | ganso: I think it's a question of interfaces and module state, not just performance (how many DB accesses get triggered) | 15:55 |
| ganso_ | then maybe we could code a db abstraction, with select functions that drivers may use and do not interfere, like safe ways to read the db, and do not provide ways to update it, etc | 15:55 |
| bswartz | some network plugins may access the DB, while others may talk to external components | 15:55 |
| bswartz | ganso_: it's worth considering | 15:56 |
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| bswartz | ganso_: the current model is pretty clean and nice though | 15:56 |
| bswartz | as long as we adhere to it | 15:56 |
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| bswartz | if there are specific problems we just can't solve, then that's a good time to consider changing the DB interaction model | 15:56 |
| bswartz | I don't think we're there yet | 15:57 |
| bswartz | anyways, we're nearly out of time | 15:57 |
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| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:57 | |
| bswartz | any last topics before we have to go? | 15:57 |
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| bswartz | please update your BPs! | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | add missing ones and make sure existing ones reflect the true state! | 15:58 |
| bswartz | I'm going to do the same right now | 15:58 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 19 15:58:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-02-19-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-02-19-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2015/manila.2015-02-19-15.00.log.html | 15:59 |
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| kozhukalov | hi guys | 16:00 |
| salmon_ | hi | 16:00 |
| kozhukalov | #startmeeting Fuel | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 19 16:00:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kozhukalov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'fuel' | 16:00 |
| kozhukalov | #chair kozhukalov | 16:00 |
| sambork | hi | 16:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: kozhukalov | 16:00 |
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| kozhukalov | agenda as usual | 16:00 |
| agordeev | hi | 16:00 |
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| kozhukalov | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-weekly-meeting-agenda | 16:00 |
| *** mihgen has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 16:01 | |
| kozhukalov | looks like we have just a couple of topics to discuss | 16:01 |
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| kozhukalov | #topic Dims needs Project Ideas, Mentors for GSoC 2015 | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dims needs Project Ideas, Mentors for GSoC 2015 (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:01 | |
| mihgen | hi folks | 16:01 |
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| kozhukalov | who was that guys who added this topic to agenda? | 16:02 |
| mihgen | frankly I don't know who put this topic, but we should have someone who was going to operations meetup | 16:02 |
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| kozhukalov | operations meetup? what is it? | 16:03 |
| mihgen | well community is getting people who are interested and working on operations story for openstack | 16:03 |
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| mihgen | I'll need to dig it in my gmail,but anyway - it's pretty important for us to participate there if possible | 16:04 |
| mihgen | the thing is that Fuel has to support operations anyway | 16:04 |
| mihgen | and the more is done in openstack itself, the easier life is in Fuel | 16:04 |
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| mihgen | with some real experience, we clearly need to share it - and get knowledge what has to be done in fuel | 16:05 |
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| IvanKliuk | hi | 16:05 |
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| mihgen | I don't see xarses here, he would certainly share some more details | 16:05 |
| mihgen | I know someone was going there from US office. | 16:05 |
| mihgen | so if we don't have people to discuss this topic further, let's move on | 16:06 |
| meow-nofer__ | hi everyone | 16:06 |
| kozhukalov | maybe aedo? | 16:06 |
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| kozhukalov | ok, if no one has additional details | 16:07 |
| kozhukalov | we definitely can not cover this topic | 16:07 |
| kozhukalov | let's skip it and dig a little bit deeper after meeting | 16:08 |
| kozhukalov | moving on | 16:08 |
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| kozhukalov | ohh, great, xarses | 16:08 |
| kozhukalov | could you please share some details about openstack operations meetup? | 16:09 |
| kozhukalov | as far as we know someone from US office was going to participate | 16:09 |
| xarses | that is news to me, but I would not be supprised if someone went | 16:10 |
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| xarses | its in Philadelphia, PA | 16:10 |
| kozhukalov | ok, if there are no details, let's move on | 16:10 |
| xarses | sorry, thats about all I have | 16:11 |
| kozhukalov | #topic IBP (agordeev) | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IBP (agordeev) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:11 | |
| agordeev | hi | 16:11 |
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| agordeev | IBP status. | 16:11 |
| agordeev | The implementation of http reconnection for fuel-agent was started | 16:11 |
| agordeev | link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/ibp-reconnect | 16:11 |
| agordeev | ETA 1d | 16:11 |
| agordeev | Regarding the rest 2 BPs, i think there's enough time to get them implemented before FF. | 16:11 |
| agordeev | Bugs: few high priority fixes are still on a review | 16:11 |
| agordeev | link https://review.openstack.org/155703 | 16:11 |
| agordeev | link https://review.openstack.org/155782 | 16:11 |
| agordeev | link https://review.openstack.org/156185 | 16:11 |
| agordeev | Meanwhile, backporting 'device busy' fix to classic provisining is still in progress and couldn't be property estimated. | 16:11 |
| agordeev | A lot of customer-found bugs were fixed for last two weeks | 16:11 |
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| dpyzhov | agordeev: let’s pause backport of ‘device busy’ fix | 16:12 |
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| dpyzhov | who is working on it? | 16:12 |
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| agordeev | dpyzhov: kozhukalov was working on it for the last time | 16:13 |
| kozhukalov | dpyzhov: nobody | 16:13 |
| dpyzhov | ok, great, it’s on hold =) | 16:13 |
| ikalnitsky | agordeev: could you please first implement blueprint ibp-build-ubuntu-images and then others? | 16:13 |
| kozhukalov | i'm doing preparation for 'way to clouds' confrerence | 16:13 |
| agordeev | ikalnitsky: ok, i'll finish reconnect for today, then will start build-ubuntu-images. | 16:14 |
| kozhukalov | ok, any other q about this topic? | 16:15 |
| ikalnitsky | agordeev: sounds cool. thank you. i just want to make sure that we did manage it asap. you know, your blueprint is required for mine | 16:15 |
| agordeev | ikalnitsky: i've tried the script. And it's not working, it needs additional time to investigate | 16:15 |
| kozhukalov | ok, moving on | 16:15 |
| ikalnitsky | agordeev: ok, no problem. i just want you to make right priorities. :) | 16:15 |
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| kozhukalov | consume-external-ubuntu (ikalnitsky) | 16:16 |
| kozhukalov | #topic consume-external-ubuntu (ikalnitsky) | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "consume-external-ubuntu (ikalnitsky) (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:16 | |
| ikalnitsky | ok, guys! | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | we had a hot discussion this week and previous one about feature design. | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | it looks like we agreed on implementation details, so please see the spec if you're interested in | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154973/ | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | the first patch (nailgun part) for this blueprint on review, though it requires rebasing and some fixes | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156147/ | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | ui team has start their working today as well as devops team. | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | from qa side, it looks like they don't require a lot of work - just few changes in system tests. | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | next steps - fix nailgun patchset, prepare patch to astute | 16:16 |
| ikalnitsky | that's all for now | 16:16 |
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| ikalnitsky | questions? :) | 16:16 |
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| xarses | thanks for paste =) | 16:16 |
| dpyzhov | ikalnitsky: great | 16:17 |
| kozhukalov | are UI guys going to be in time for FF with this custom handler for repos? | 16:18 |
| ikalnitsky | kozhukalov: i think so. | 16:18 |
| ikalnitsky | vkramskikh: are you around? | 16:18 |
| vkramskikh | yep, there should be no difficulties | 16:18 |
| mihgen | ikalnitsky: I'm worried about CI infra being ready for the change | 16:19 |
| kozhukalov | great | 16:19 |
| mihgen | for all tests we run, Fuel CI, system tests, etc. | 16:19 |
| xarses | how are we dealing with the package fetching? | 16:19 |
| mihgen | did you talk to QA guys? | 16:19 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: yes, i did. | 16:19 |
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| mihgen | Also, I don't know about squid/other type of proxy for packages, who is working on that one? | 16:19 |
| xarses | ikalnitsky: how are we dealing with the package fetching? | 16:20 |
| ikalnitsky | from qa side - there should not be difficulties. all job should be performed by devops. i mean, prepare mirrors and so on. | 16:20 |
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| mihgen | I agree with xarses that it's risky, we had issues before | 16:20 |
| xarses | a LOT of issues before | 16:20 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: squid/proxy is a part of holser spec. i think we need ask him. | 16:20 |
| mihgen | teran: who is working on jobs? mirrors, etc. ? | 16:20 |
| mihgen | we need to ensure it starts to run next week, I don't think it's viable to wait before FF | 16:20 |
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| ikalnitsky | mihgen: Mateusz Matuszkowiak and Pawel Brzozowski are assigned to mu blueprint | 16:21 |
| xarses | We also need a better mirror system than squid | 16:21 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: agreed. i ask them to start it asap and don't wait ff. | 16:21 |
| mihgen | ok. ikalnitsky, you as a feature lead, please ensure that it's being addressed by devops guys in time | 16:21 |
| ikalnitsky | they learn the spec and i've gave them answers | 16:22 |
| mihgen | thank you. I know from past experience, these things don't go fast. We should be doing infra in advance. Following TDD where possible ;) | 16:22 |
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| mihgen | holser: ping | 16:22 |
| mihgen | following up on xarses question about squid, if holser is here, I'd like to hear some answers on this | 16:23 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: i order to get fully working feature, others blueprint have to be complete.. and they have to be complete in time too | 16:23 |
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| mihgen | ikalnitsky: what dependant bps do you have? | 16:23 |
| xarses | ikalnitsky: please ensure that we can easily modify the repos with out download/upload custom yaml so we could code internal mirrors if needed | 16:23 |
| ikalnitsky | i mean such blueprints like trusty support, ibp images, separate linux packages from mos | 16:23 |
| mihgen | ikalnitsky: well I don't know, but I think your code should be independent from ubuntu version | 16:24 |
| xarses | i would hope it is | 16:24 |
| ikalnitsky | my code is independent, yes. | 16:24 |
| xarses | cool | 16:24 |
| mihgen | Also I'd like to learn more about ibp here - you should not depend on this one too, I think | 16:24 |
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| mihgen | I'd like to have a meeting about split repos tomorrow with osci / vparakhin, I'll send you an invite | 16:25 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: currently, ibp images are building when we're building our iso. now, there should be a script to build them on master node. | 16:25 |
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| mihgen | correct. but your code should be independent here as well I think, is not it? | 16:25 |
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| ikalnitsky | yep, from my side, the code is independent | 16:26 |
| mihgen | the other way perhaps - ibp code would be dependent on yours | 16:26 |
| mihgen | ok let's talk about split repos tomorrow and about deps between all this interrelated ubuntu stories | 16:26 |
| ikalnitsky | ok | 16:27 |
| mihgen | I've sent you an invite | 16:27 |
| mihgen | ikalnitsky: thx for update | 16:27 |
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| mihgen | let's move on | 16:27 |
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| kozhukalov | there are no more topics to discuss | 16:27 |
| kozhukalov | #topic open discussion | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 16:27 | |
| kozhukalov | does anybody have something? | 16:28 |
| mihgen | any news about virtual routers? | 16:28 |
| mihgen | + dns/ntp | 16:28 |
| mihgen | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/virtual-router-for-env-nodes | 16:29 |
| mihgen | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/external-dns-ntp-support | 16:29 |
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| mihgen | looks like no one is here for this to give an update :( | 16:30 |
| kozhukalov | yep | 16:30 |
| mihgen | what about building images on master node for IBP - did we cover this one? | 16:30 |
| mihgen | (sorry I had to leave this room for 10min and could miss it ) | 16:30 |
| kozhukalov | agordeev: is going to work on that | 16:30 |
| mihgen | just want to know how long would it take, what's the current status | 16:31 |
| kozhukalov | but he did not start | 16:31 |
| kozhukalov | it gonna take several days i think | 16:31 |
| agordeev | mihgen: current status. It needs about 1w at least | 16:31 |
| mihgen | I"m pretty worried as we need to think a lot about possible failures there | 16:31 |
| mihgen | so it can fail on any step, and if, for instance, there is something mounted - and we can't build image anymore - that would worst thing ever | 16:32 |
| mihgen | as user will stuck with building an image | 16:32 |
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| agordeev | mihgen: for now, it only fail on jenkins slave if there was an interruption. | 16:32 |
| mihgen | (mounted - I know such issue from 'make iso') | 16:32 |
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| mihgen | would not it fail in the same way on fuel master node? | 16:33 |
| kozhukalov | i think we need to deal with that on the task level (i mean task should have kind of timeout) | 16:33 |
| seeg | I got some task on virtual routers but it seems to be related to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/refactor-l23-linux-bridges | 16:33 |
| mihgen | seeg: hmm as I understand it's baseground for virtual routers, yes | 16:34 |
| mihgen | kozhukalov: we need to think about cleanup thoroughly | 16:34 |
| seeg | but i'm just gathering info about it still, it's news from today for me :) | 16:34 |
| kozhukalov | mihgen: yes, here we need to be accurate (when mounting/umounting loop devices) | 16:34 |
| mihgen | if task fails, we have to ensure that nothing left from previous run before we try again | 16:35 |
| kozhukalov | mihgen: sure | 16:35 |
| mihgen | Also, what about python code for it in nailgun | 16:35 |
| mihgen | it's gonna be task running when? | 16:35 |
| mihgen | who would trigger it, how UX is changed because of it? is it in design spec somewhere to take a look? who will implement nailgun's part/ | 16:36 |
| agordeev | mihgen: it's going to be an asynchronous task executed by astute in mcollective container | 16:36 |
| kozhukalov | it gonna be task which is supposed to be run just before provision task | 16:36 |
| xarses | kozhukalov: does it allways have to run? | 16:36 |
| kozhukalov | mihgen: it is all up to ikalnitsky's patch | 16:36 |
| kozhukalov | xarses: we decided to build images once per cluster | 16:37 |
| mihgen | ikalnitsky: so you will be implementing it? | 16:37 |
| mihgen | per cluster or release? | 16:37 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: i'll implement sending the task. that's all | 16:37 |
| xarses | kozhukalov: what If i want to rebuild it? | 16:37 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: per cluster. | 16:37 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: cluster may have different set of repos | 16:37 |
| kozhukalov | xarses: and yes we'll run this task every time before provision, but this task is to be trivial if images is built already (i mean task will do nothing) | 16:38 |
| mihgen | interesting. ikalnitsky - please share spec link, I want to learn more about it | 16:38 |
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| xarses | kozhukalov: but what If i want it to be rebuilt because the package delta is hight? | 16:38 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154973/ | 16:38 |
| kozhukalov | xarses: at the moment it gonna be impossible | 16:39 |
| kozhukalov | xarses: but it is not a problem | 16:39 |
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| kozhukalov | xarses: because we deal with basic images not goldev | 16:39 |
| kozhukalov | xarses: because we deal with basic images not golden | 16:39 |
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| mihgen | ikalnitsky: as I left comment before, let's have backdoor - user should be able to just rm -f image | 16:39 |
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| kozhukalov | and those images are to be possible to upgrade during deployment | 16:39 |
| mihgen | and nailgun will see it's removed in order to rebuild it | 16:40 |
| xarses | mihgen: +1 | 16:40 |
| ikalnitsky | mihgen: yes, it'll be rebuild | 16:40 |
| ikalnitsky | our task will be something like microservice | 16:40 |
| ikalnitsky | it will check whether image is exist or not | 16:40 |
| ikalnitsky | if not - it will build | 16:40 |
| mihgen | ok thanks guys | 16:41 |
| kozhukalov | and how is it going to look like (rm image) from UI point of view? | 16:41 |
| mihgen | kozhukalov: not from UI for now, let's be simple here | 16:41 |
| mihgen | ssh to master, and do "rm -f" | 16:41 |
| kozhukalov | ahh, yes, if user rm image it gonna be rebuilt | 16:41 |
| mihgen | not sure if it's gonna be ever needed (and we should aim for it) | 16:41 |
| mihgen | but just backdoor is always good | 16:42 |
| mihgen | ok thx folks | 16:42 |
| xarses | ikalnitsky: kozhukalov will this task be visible / editable in the task graph like the fuel-library ones? | 16:42 |
| mihgen | vkramskikh: around? | 16:43 |
| kozhukalov | xarses: yes | 16:43 |
| xarses | cool | 16:43 |
| kozhukalov | xarses: it should be a separate task | 16:43 |
| xarses | I like the new task graph engine | 16:43 |
| xarses | it looks lovely guys | 16:43 |
| xarses | <side node> | 16:43 |
| xarses | <side note> | 16:43 |
| kozhukalov | ok, if there are no other q, let's finish | 16:44 |
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| mihgen | well I had question to UI | 16:44 |
| mihgen | is vkramskikh here? where are we with network verification before deployment | 16:45 |
| seeg | yeah, well i'm implementing that too :) | 16:45 |
| seeg | i have python code for that, the UI is done by MorAle | 16:45 |
| seeg | i just have to fight some tests | 16:45 |
| mihgen | seeg: oh cool! | 16:45 |
| mihgen | did you plan to show demo of UX for it? | 16:45 |
| xarses | Are we going to be able to do anything to make the results more readable? | 16:45 |
| seeg | there are strange race conditions i presume, concerned with fake_tasks i think | 16:46 |
| mihgen | I would love to take a quick look, fake UI is ok | 16:46 |
| seeg | yeah, sure, we can make a demo | 16:46 |
| mihgen | xarses: I don't think in this release :((( | 16:46 |
| mihgen | but I certainly would enforce it for the next release | 16:46 |
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| xarses | =/ It's terribly hard to read at times, and I know what it's doing | 16:47 |
| mihgen | xarses: btw dude we really need your reply in openstack-dev about openrc / how we gonna deal with service user, as we need it for stats collection as well | 16:47 |
| xarses | yes | 16:47 |
| mihgen | xarses: if it's easy to fix… let's just explain how, may be we can get someone to make a change… | 16:47 |
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| mihgen | I'm not sure if it's easy.. | 16:48 |
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| xarses | mihgen: I will add it to my backlog to look over more | 16:48 |
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| mihgen | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Fuel/6.1_Release_Schedule | 16:48 |
| mihgen | to remind everyone ^^^ - 2 weeks before FF | 16:48 |
| mihgen | let's merge code faster ;) | 16:49 |
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| mihgen | if we see we are not fitting schedule - let's raise it as earlier as possible, so we can decide what to do | 16:49 |
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| mihgen | also, as we know, core reviewers will be busy right before FF - so give patches for review as early as possible | 16:50 |
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| kozhukalov | ending? | 16:51 |
| mihgen | I think so | 16:51 |
| kozhukalov | thanx everyone for partisipation | 16:51 |
| mihgen | thanks guys | 16:51 |
| kozhukalov | #endmeeting | 16:51 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 19 16:51:38 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-02-19-16.00.html | 16:51 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-02-19-16.00.txt | 16:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2015/fuel.2015-02-19-16.00.log.html | 16:51 |
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| hyakuhei | #startmeeting openstack security group | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 19 17:00:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack security group)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 17:00 |
| hyakuhei | So I think virtually everyone who’s active is at the OSSG meetup but I thought I’d start the meeting here just in case anyone has things to discuss? | 17:01 |
| singlethink | I came here for the same reason | 17:01 |
| singlethink | But I don't have any agenda items to raise | 17:01 |
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| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 17:01 |
| * sigmavirus24 doesn't have any either | 17:01 | |
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| hyakuhei | Cool | 17:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'm just bothered by the lack of review time given to some of the bandit patches and this mentality that fewer dependencies is better | 17:02 |
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| hyakuhei | We’ve largely been focussed on three topics, Anchor, Bandit and the Secure Develop Practices | 17:03 |
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| hyakuhei | Anchor outstanding reviews: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/anchor,n,z | 17:04 |
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| hyakuhei | Bandit reviews: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/bandit,n,z | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | And finally | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | Security Best Practices: https://github.com/hyakuhei/OSSG-Security-Practices | 17:04 |
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| sigmavirus24 | hyakuhei: is there a plan to move the latter to stackforge and have it published somewhere on openstack.org? | 17:06 |
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| hyakuhei | There’s a plan to put it somewhere official yeah | 17:06 |
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| hyakuhei | It lives in github right now because that’s a lovely place to manage markdown files | 17:07 |
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| hyakuhei | We’ll possibly transform them into Yaml or something then have some automatic magic run | 17:07 |
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| hyakuhei | Ok guys, I’m going to close this up and get the mid-cycle rolling thanks! | 17:08 |
| singlethink | Sounds good :-) | 17:09 |
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| sigmavirus24 | later | 17:09 |
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| hyakuhei | #endmeeting | 17:10 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:10 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 19 17:10:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:10 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2015/openstack_security_group.2015-02-19-17.00.html | 17:10 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2015/openstack_security_group.2015-02-19-17.00.txt | 17:10 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2015/openstack_security_group.2015-02-19-17.00.log.html | 17:10 |
| elmiko | that was quick ;) | 17:10 |
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| hyakuhei | elmiko: sorry, we’re all doing awesome mid-cycle stuff :P | 17:13 |
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| elmiko | hyakuhei: lol, rock on! | 17:15 |
| hyakuhei | :) | 17:16 |
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| elmiko | any sahara folks around? | 18:04 |
| tmckay | here | 18:05 |
| sreshetnyak | here | 18:05 |
| NikitaKonovalov | o/ | 18:05 |
| alazarev | here, will chair taday | 18:05 |
| elmiko | yay! | 18:05 |
| egafford | elmiko: A bunch have joined. Looks like... yep, that. :) | 18:05 |
| vgridnev_ | hi | 18:05 |
| tmckay | alazarev, meeting isn't started yet ... | 18:06 |
| alazarev | #startmeeting sahara | 18:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 19 18:06:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alazarev. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 18:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'sahara' | 18:06 |
| tmckay | now we | 18:06 |
| alazarev | I was searching how to start it :) | 18:06 |
| tmckay | we're cooking with gas, I was going to say | 18:06 |
| tmckay | yeah, I forget :) | 18:06 |
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| alazarev | #topic sahara@horizon status (crobertsrh, NikitaKonovalov) | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sahara@horizon status (crobertsrh, NikitaKonovalov) (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 18:06 | |
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| crobertsrh | Reviews are still ongoing. | 18:07 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ok, so we've a got some progress | 18:07 |
| crobertsrh | Quite a few things have merged, which is good. | 18:07 |
| NikitaKonovalov | patches are getting review | 18:07 |
| NikitaKonovalov | sometimes | 18:07 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've also started working on event logs in UI | 18:08 |
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| alazarev | my patches are still on review | 18:08 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so it will also be on review soon | 18:08 |
| alazarev | thanks, Nikita | 18:09 |
| alazarev | #topic News / updates | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News / updates (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 18:09 | |
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| crobertsrh | The edit node group/cluster template UI reviews will be back to workflow 0 soon. I'm working on api side of those now. Hopefully, they will be done soon. | 18:09 |
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| tmckay | I have put up a Shell action spec, egafford will take it. Hoping cdh intel guys will take the Hbase lib one | 18:09 |
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| egafford | 1) TripleO integration is deprioritized a bit (until TripleO team has time to help address the integration.) | 18:10 |
| egafford | 2) Working on Oozie shell job implementation as of this AM. | 18:10 |
| tmckay | And, I'm putting up a spec for job-types endpoint today | 18:10 |
| egafford | tmckay: Quite. | 18:10 |
| elmiko | security doc is up for review, making good progress but it needs a few more eyes on it. also, just posted a spec for barbican integration, and working on testing secure mode hadoop with freeipa. | 18:10 |
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| alazarev | I'm working on sahara heat stuff, finished migration to HOT and realized that this shouldn't be the first patch since code looks ugly with the current approach | 18:10 |
| alazarev | will be a series of patches before migration | 18:11 |
| tosky | still working on having more generic (== working without vanilla) tempest API tests | 18:11 |
| sreshetnyak | i'm working on new integration tests and migration to openjdk | 18:11 |
| tmckay | tosky, working without vanilla? | 18:12 |
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| alazarev | egafford, do tripleo staff changes influence? | 18:12 |
| tosky | tmckay: if the cluster has no vanilla support, tempest API tests currently fail | 18:12 |
| tmckay | ah | 18:12 |
| egafford | tmckay: Tests that work with any subset of plugins enabled. | 18:12 |
| tmckay | gotcha | 18:13 |
| egafford | alazarev: That's a really good question, and I don't have a full answer yet. | 18:13 |
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| tmckay | mattf, meeting is here, there is a pause :) | 18:14 |
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| alazarev | #topic Open discussion | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 18:15 | |
| alazarev | do we have topics to discuss today? | 18:15 |
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| tmckay | note, after the job-types endpoint I'll be helping crobertsrh with default templates | 18:15 |
| crobertsrh | Any Summit talk proposals? I know that elmiko has a security related one. | 18:15 |
| tmckay | job-types should be short, not too hard | 18:15 |
| elmiko | i'd still like to ask folks to take a look at the security doc | 18:16 |
| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155052/ | 18:16 |
| tmckay | oh, yes, read the security doc if you haven't already | 18:16 |
| tmckay | jinx | 18:16 |
| elmiko | and yea, what crobertsrh said | 18:16 |
| elmiko | please vote for https://www.openstack.org/vote-vancouver/Presentation/secure-data-processing-building-a-hardened-sahara-installation | 18:16 |
| elmiko | =) | 18:16 |
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| egafford | I have a few. First, talked to a colleague about the sahara-stable-maint additions, and he said that now that slukjanov's notified stable-maint-core, we should be okay to add the new team members independently (which would be good; slukjanov's alone atm.) | 18:17 |
| elmiko | nice | 18:17 |
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| egafford | Second, re: integration tests: I don't believe that we currently have automatic retries on individual failed CI tests. Should we? | 18:17 |
| alazarev | also vote for https://www.openstack.org/vote-vancouver/presentation/baremetal-and-hybrid-big-data-clusters-on-openstack-using-sahara :) | 18:18 |
| mattf | tmckay, i pulled a tmckay | 18:18 |
| tmckay | I need to change my name | 18:18 |
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| elmiko | i'm curious about egafford's question as well, does anyone know? | 18:18 |
| egafford | At present we do a lot of sahara-ci-recheck to try to get the full set in one go, which could be avoided much more frequently by setting up, say, 2 automatic rechecks of only failing CI tests. It'd free up the cluster a lot. | 18:18 |
| tmckay | elmiko, we've talked about it, but I don't believe we've ever implemented | 18:18 |
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| tmckay | similar case, aignatov brought up retires on provisioning steps at Summit, I believe | 18:19 |
| elmiko | ok, i thought there was some sort of built-in retry on the ci gate, is that not true? | 18:19 |
| egafford | Are there any philosophical objections to a small number of automatic retries? There are valid objections, certainly, but if we just do it manually anyway it only slows us down. | 18:19 |
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| tmckay | so, potentially two places to add retry. With the benefit of retries in provisioning going to the production user, too | 18:20 |
| elmiko | no objection from me for adding a retry on fail, but we'd need some sort of limit | 18:20 |
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| tmckay | it would almost have to be context-sensitive | 18:20 |
| egafford | elmiko: Of course. 3 failures = fail seems pretty standard and reasonable for this sort of thing. | 18:21 |
| tmckay | you would want to retry cases where for instance the cluster doesn't go "Active" | 18:21 |
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| tmckay | for an unspecified reason | 18:21 |
| tmckay | but that means log parsing instead of just a simple retry | 18:21 |
| elmiko | right but we can't start duplicating the zuul infrastructure. we need to be more dumb about the retries | 18:21 |
| tmckay | simple retry because of an exception, "None type object has no attribute blah" would be a waste of time | 18:22 |
| egafford | elmiko: +1 to dumbness (this line is pretty great out of context) | 18:22 |
| elmiko | lol | 18:22 |
| tmckay | I'm on the fence | 18:22 |
| alazarev | I see 4 places where retry cloud be added: 1. nova, 2. heat (they are working on that), 3. sahara (we have several), 4. CI | 18:22 |
| egafford | tmckay: Sure, it would be a slight waste of time, but compared with rerunning the whole suite multiple times? | 18:22 |
| elmiko | i'm just saying that if we are going to talk about the conditions under which we make retries, and we start to code rules, we might as well help make the zuul infra better by filling out tickets there | 18:22 |
| tmckay | egafford, you're talking about a retry in the integration test itself, in the wrapper, not in the gate? | 18:23 |
| alazarev | for production use it would be nice to have retries on 1-3, but I agree that we are making 4 manually | 18:23 |
| egafford | tmckay: The case that brought this up was the stable/juno 1-line manifest addition change, which took 5 rechecks to succeed despite an effective non-change to the CI tests. | 18:23 |
| elmiko | alazarev: yea, i think the intent is to take away some of the manual retry on #4 | 18:24 |
| egafford | alazarev, tmckay: Right, and we're retrying the entire suite 4 times, rather than tactically retrying only the problem tests. | 18:24 |
| tmckay | okay, so the proposal is to inject "test til pass, limit X" loops in the integration tests | 18:24 |
| tmckay | if a test passes once, we call it success | 18:24 |
| tmckay | so maybe I spin the hdp cluster 3 times, but it passes the 3rd time, so great | 18:25 |
| tmckay | PASS | 18:25 |
| egafford | tmckay: On a per-test basis, yes. There absolutely are problems with this approach (frequently covers random failure.) | 18:25 |
| tmckay | in that case, we could be a little choosy | 18:26 |
| egafford | tmckay: But, if we just hit the button anyway until retry 4 or 5, we're not doing ourselves any favors by forcing all the tests to rerun, and forcing manual intervention at each step. | 18:26 |
| tmckay | I think we can tell when a test fails because a cluster never goes Active or an EDP job never completes | 18:26 |
| tmckay | egafford, ack | 18:26 |
| alazarev | it will make us think that success rate 1 to 3 is a good enough thing... which is not I believe | 18:26 |
| tmckay | egafford, initially I thought we were talking about changes to the scripting around the Saraha ci tests, not the test.py code. | 18:27 |
| elmiko | alazarev: good point, we might end up hiding a bug that occurs infrequently | 18:27 |
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| tmckay | alazarev, but we don't pay attention to that now | 18:27 |
| tmckay | we just assume that some odd thing in openstack failed and recheck | 18:28 |
| alazarev | tmckay, because failures are too often | 18:28 |
| elmiko | well, we should be checking the logs though. you are checking the log before recheck aren't you .... ;) | 18:28 |
| alazarev | elmiko, lol :) | 18:28 |
| egafford | alazarev, elmiko: Right, that's the problem. This kind of approach explicitly has problems with random failure, BUT if we don't address it because we can't trust that failure means failure (which we don't at present)... | 18:28 |
| tmckay | elmiko, actually, a lot of the time, yes, but if I can't find something explicit very fast I ignore | 18:29 |
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| egafford | There are really good arguments in both directions, but it seems worth discussion. I lean on the side of automatic retries, or a very aggressive decision to address the current inconsistency in CI tests. | 18:30 |
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| alazarev | do we believe that one day openstack will be stable enough to have at least 95% of passed CI suites? | 18:30 |
| tmckay | I've brought this up before. I think the only way to answer both questions is to find places for retry in Sahara itself | 18:30 |
| alazarev | if not - I'm +1 on auto recheck | 18:31 |
| egafford | alazarev: Fully agreed. | 18:31 |
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| tmckay | Did a provisioning step timeout? Okay, try again. Still? try again, longer timeout .... | 18:31 |
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| elmiko | i'm ok with us implementing recheck, but i wonder if we shouldn't also be more active in creating bugs for zuul and the elastic-recheck? | 18:31 |
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| tmckay | or like aignatov suggested, allow partial cluster without "Error" | 18:31 |
| alazarev | tmckay, we need such feature from heat first | 18:32 |
| alazarev | tmckay, they are working on it, but I don't sure it well be ready in kilo | 18:33 |
| tmckay | alazarev, ack. I'm okay with auto-recheck features in integration tests, but a small number. 2 or 3, no more. | 18:33 |
| tmckay | After that a human should take a look | 18:33 |
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| elmiko | #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/elastic-recheck/readme.html#adding-bug-signatures | 18:34 |
| elmiko | i think we should also me contributing more to ^^ | 18:34 |
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| tmckay | elmiko, good suggestion | 18:34 |
| elmiko | s/me/be | 18:34 |
| egafford | tmckay: +1. More than 2 rechecks (3 total runs) is getting on into negligence. | 18:34 |
| tmckay | agreed, yes, I meant 3 total | 18:34 |
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| alazarev | and we need https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142632/ | 18:35 |
| alazarev | put +1 please | 18:35 |
| egafford | tmckay: From what I've seen at other places with very asynchronous, large-scale, difficult tests (like ours) 3 total is pretty standard. | 18:35 |
| crobertsrh | +1 to elmiko's suggestion | 18:36 |
| tmckay | alazarev, will do | 18:36 |
| elmiko | i just feel like we are reimplementing something that already has a huge effort behind it | 18:36 |
| elmiko | granted, it's a pain to keep kicking the recheck machine | 18:36 |
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| tmckay | elmiko, that's partly why I like making Sahara itself more robust. I've seen weird error occasionally where ssh can | 18:37 |
| tmckay | can't read "the banner". Huh? Try again | 18:37 |
| tmckay | I should document that the next time it happens | 18:37 |
| elmiko | tmckay: +1 | 18:37 |
| tmckay | some ssh burp shouldn't derail the cluster. | 18:38 |
| alazarev | tmckay, I saw this too | 18:38 |
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| tosky | are we still in the News/update part of the meeting? I have a question about diskimage-builder (future) version | 18:39 |
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| elmiko | tosky: open discussion, go for it ! | 18:39 |
| tmckay | makes me wonder why I haven't addressed it before. In the middle of chasing something else, I suppose. But next, I vow. | 18:39 |
| tosky | the cut of py2.6 compatibility could impact the usage of newer versions of diskimage-builder; for example, see this new module: | 18:40 |
| tosky | https://github.com/openstack/diskimage-builder/blob/master/elements/package-installs/bin/package-installs-v2 | 18:40 |
| elmiko | tmckay: probably because it's a really difficult non-deterministic problem ;) | 18:40 |
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| tmckay | elmiko, that might be it. Or it always happens on Friday ;-) | 18:40 |
| tosky | which uses new subprocess methods not available in py2.6 - which could be a problem if you want to generate centos 6 image on centos 6 with a _newer_ dib | 18:40 |
| tosky | this is _not_ a problem now, as we use an older dib tag (0.1.29) but I wanted to ask what are the plans to handle that | 18:41 |
| tosky | or at least raise the issue | 18:41 |
| elmiko | tosky: good issue to raise | 18:41 |
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| elmiko | we could always add something to check for python version and grab the last compatible version of dib from that? | 18:42 |
| elmiko | while throwing a warning up for the user | 18:42 |
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| alazarev | tosky, all openstack doesn't support py26 now, diskimagebuilder is not an exception, so it was predicted | 18:42 |
| tosky | alazarev: sure it was, but then what to do? Distributions (RDO, but I bet also on Ubuntu) are going to ship newer dib packages, I suspect there will be pressure to use a newer version | 18:43 |
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| tosky | or we can push HWX and CDH people to switch to newer distributions :D | 18:43 |
| egafford | tosky: +1 | 18:43 |
| tosky | alazarev: I think I already asked: how do you generated the centos/hdp images on the sahara site? From Ubuntu or from CentOS? | 18:44 |
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| tmckay | tosky, I don't see a way around this except for distros like RDO to package older dibs. Or fork and fix newer versions. | 18:45 |
| tosky | tmckay: the first one is quite difficult (unless you package *also* the old version as a secondary package) | 18:45 |
| alazarev | tosky, I don't know, it is better to ask deploy guys | 18:46 |
| tosky | not going to fly on Ubuntu or Debian, I suspect | 18:46 |
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| elmiko | i'm +1 for asking HWX and CDH to think about switch to newer distros, but that's a long uphill climb | 18:46 |
| tmckay | OpenStack probably will move faster than centos. centos is tried and true, openstack is flashy and new every 6 months. Different mandate | 18:46 |
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| tosky | well, at least after moving to centos7, we will have few years of peace | 18:46 |
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| elmiko | hehe | 18:47 |
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| tmckay | that is true | 18:47 |
| sreshetnyak | tosky i generate CentOS images from Ubuntu | 18:47 |
| clarkb | sreshetnyak: so does infra (though not with sahara's elements) | 18:47 |
| tosky | sreshetnyak: oh, I see, so it wouldn't be an issue for you when a new dib will be used | 18:47 |
| tosky | clarkb: openstack-infra? What do they use, if not sahara sahara's elements? | 18:48 |
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| clarkb | tosky: we have our own elements for our nodes | 18:48 |
| clarkb | building in the other direction is where things get tricky, using an old build host to build images for new OSes | 18:49 |
| tosky | clarkb: is there some specific reason for not using the ones in sahara-image-elements? I'm curious | 18:49 |
| clarkb | but using new OS as build host to build images for old OSes has worked ok so far | 18:49 |
| clarkb | tosky: we aren't doing anything with sahara | 18:50 |
| clarkb | I am speaking generically to dib as a tool | 18:50 |
| tosky | clarkb: oh, I see, sorry | 18:50 |
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| tosky | well, I've hit some issues building centos6 from centos7, that's why I was concerned, but I will recheck too | 18:50 |
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| alazarev | anything else to discuss? | 18:52 |
| tmckay | nothing from me | 18:53 |
| crobertsrh | nothing from me | 18:53 |
| tosky | final question about this: did you plan to bump dib version at some point in the near future? | 18:53 |
| egafford | Nothing else; thanks. | 18:53 |
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| alazarev | tosky, as I know, there are no such plans | 18:55 |
| alazarev | #endmeeting | 18:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 19 18:55:11 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2015/sahara.2015-02-19-18.06.html | 18:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2015/sahara.2015-02-19-18.06.txt | 18:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2015/sahara.2015-02-19-18.06.log.html | 18:55 |
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| tosky | alazarev: ack :) | 18:55 |
| elmiko | thanks alazarev | 18:55 |
| sreshetnyak | tosky, degorenko plans to migrate sahara elements on new dib elements | 18:57 |
| tosky | sreshetnyak: more or less when? (weeks, months?) | 18:57 |
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| * tosky needs to leave, sorry | 18:58 | |
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| sreshetnyak | tosky I don't know | 18:59 |
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| amitgandhinz | #startmeeting Poppy Weekly Meeting | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 19 19:00:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is amitgandhinz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Poppy Weekly Meeting)" | 19:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'poppy_weekly_meeting' | 19:00 |
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| amitgandhinz | #topic RollCall | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RollCall (Meeting topic: Poppy Weekly Meeting)" | 19:00 | |
| malini | o/ | 19:00 |
| amitgandhinz | o/ | 19:00 |
| obulpathi | o/ | 19:00 |
| wbrothers | o/ | 19:00 |
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| sriram | o/ | 19:01 |
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| megan_w_ | \o | 19:02 |
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| amitgandhinz | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Poppy | 19:03 |
| amitgandhinz | #topic Last Week Today | 19:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Last Week Today (Meeting topic: Poppy Weekly Meeting)" | 19:03 | |
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| amitgandhinz | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/poppy_weekly_meeting/2015/poppy_weekly_meeting.2015-02-12-18.59.html | 19:03 |
| catherineR | o/ | 19:03 |
| amitgandhinz | only one action item - did everyone review the api changes proposed? | 19:03 |
| cpowell | o/ | 19:03 |
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| malini | :^) no | 19:04 |
| malini | tht was supposed to be :-$ | 19:04 |
| amitgandhinz | smh | 19:04 |
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| * malini even more embarassed now | 19:04 | |
| obulpathi | Opps .. me too | 19:04 |
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| sriram | I'll go through it after this meeting . :| | 19:05 |
| amitgandhinz | ok everyone needs to review it | 19:05 |
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| amitgandhinz | i plan to have tonytan4ever start the SSL stuff next week when he returns | 19:05 |
| obulpathi | amitgandhinz: I did go though the log delivery stuff | 19:05 |
| obulpathi | thats seemed good to me | 19:05 |
| sriram | cool | 19:05 |
| amitgandhinz | #action everyone read the api changes - secure certificates, content section, log delivery | 19:06 |
| amitgandhinz | obulpathi: cool | 19:06 |
| malini | the everyone tag makes it somebody else's responsibility | 19:06 |
| malini | just saying ;) | 19:06 |
| amitgandhinz | #action malini to read the api changes | 19:06 |
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| sriram | ha | 19:06 |
| malini | duh | 19:06 |
| amitgandhinz | #action sriram to read the api changes | 19:06 |
| cpowell | burn | 19:06 |
| amitgandhinz | #action obulpathi to read the api changes | 19:07 |
| amitgandhinz | how's that? | 19:07 |
| amitgandhinz | muwahahaha | 19:07 |
| obulpathi | hahaa | 19:07 |
| malini | #action amitgandhinz to read the api changes | 19:07 |
| obulpathi | got it | 19:07 |
| malini | BWAHAAHAA | 19:07 |
| sriram | well done, sir. | 19:07 |
| amitgandhinz | i wrote it ! | 19:07 |
| sriram | well done. | 19:07 |
| malini | tht doesnt prevent u from reading it | 19:07 |
| sriram | lol | 19:07 |
| mpanetta | hah | 19:07 |
| * amitgandhinz smh | 19:07 | |
| amitgandhinz | #topic Bugs and Blueprints | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and Blueprints (Meeting topic: Poppy Weekly Meeting)" | 19:08 | |
| amitgandhinz | #link https://launchpad.net/poppy/+milestone/kilo-3 | 19:08 |
| amitgandhinz | sriram: taskflow driver | 19:08 |
| sriram | ready to go. | 19:08 |
| sriram | have tested both patches with api tests. | 19:08 |
| sriram | and they pass. | 19:08 |
| malini | yayy | 19:09 |
| obulpathi | yay | 19:09 |
| amitgandhinz | -) | 19:09 |
| obulpathi | so when are we pushing to preview? | 19:09 |
| cpowell | I am working on it now | 19:09 |
| obulpathi | oops sorry | 19:09 |
| obulpathi | this is openstack channel | 19:09 |
| amitgandhinz | once cpowell gives the ok i will merge it | 19:10 |
| sriram | cool | 19:11 |
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| amitgandhinz | miqui - home doc | 19:11 |
| amitgandhinz | he's not here today, but i saw a patchset from him | 19:11 |
| amitgandhinz | there were comments | 19:11 |
| sriram | yeah, I think he'll be back with a new patch incorporating the comments. | 19:12 |
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| amitgandhinz | ya | 19:12 |
| sriram | he popped by earlier in the channel, and mentioned that. | 19:12 |
| amitgandhinz | ok, i didnt see that. cool | 19:12 |
| amitgandhinz | ok | 19:12 |
| amitgandhinz | amitgandhinz: Make API Tests run successfully at the Gate | 19:12 |
| amitgandhinz | im currently working on this | 19:12 |
| malini | woot!! | 19:12 |
| sriram | woo, this would be a major win. | 19:12 |
| amitgandhinz | basically cleaning up our tox file and making it work with mimic since we cant upload conf files that talk to akamai/fastly/cloudfront/maxcdn with real creds | 19:13 |
| amitgandhinz | once i get it working easily with mimic | 19:13 |
| sriram | amitgandhinz: +1 | 19:13 |
| amitgandhinz | then i will update the infra jobs to run them | 19:13 |
| sriram | how's that coming along? | 19:13 |
| obulpathi | awesome :) | 19:13 |
| sriram | mimic stuff. | 19:13 |
| amitgandhinz | i have tox working with mimic. i currently dont believe mimic is kicking in | 19:13 |
| amitgandhinz | also malini, we still pull mimic from your fork | 19:13 |
| amitgandhinz | and i dont see akamai in there | 19:14 |
| amitgandhinz | only fastly | 19:14 |
| malini | wbrothers was going to get tht merged to mimic master | 19:14 |
| malini | wbrothers: ping | 19:14 |
| amitgandhinz | we can talk about it later | 19:14 |
| malini | ok | 19:14 |
| sriram | cool | 19:15 |
| amitgandhinz | ok moving on to bugs now.. | 19:15 |
| amitgandhinz | https://bugs.launchpad.net/poppy/+bug/1420945 | 19:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1420945 in Poppy "default ttl not automatically assigned" [Medium,New] - Assigned to Amit Gandhi (amit-gandhi) | 19:15 |
| amitgandhinz | i have started working on this | 19:16 |
| amitgandhinz | the challenge is setting the default rules for existing services created... its a work in progress | 19:16 |
| wbrothers | The mimic stuff is not merge as of yet | 19:16 |
| amitgandhinz | wbrothers: ok, any idea when it will be? | 19:17 |
| wbrothers | Depends on what is set for priority | 19:17 |
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| wbrothers | And I will be out of the office starting next Friday | 19:18 |
| amitgandhinz | ok, we can talk about it later | 19:18 |
| wbrothers | np | 19:18 |
| malini | I can take that up | 19:18 |
| amitgandhinz | any other bugs or bp's needing to be discussed? | 19:19 |
| wbrothers | thank you malini | 19:19 |
| malini | np wbrothers | 19:19 |
| obulpathi | https://bugs.launchpad.net/poppy | 19:19 |
| sriram | I just created a new blueprint | 19:19 |
| obulpathi | there are a bunch of bugs we clean up | 19:19 |
| malini | amitgandhinz: which mimic driver shud we get in first? | 19:19 |
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| malini | fastly or akamai? | 19:19 |
| obulpathi | but we have not marked them for kilo-3 | 19:19 |
| sriram | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/poppy/+spec/taskflow-tests-for-flows | 19:19 |
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| sriram | we can take a look at this, when we decide to merge taskflow stuff. | 19:20 |
| amitgandhinz | ok i will clean up those bugs afterwards, i dont think we need to spend time in this meeting cleaning that up | 19:20 |
| sriram | cool | 19:20 |
| obulpathi | cool | 19:21 |
| amitgandhinz | sriram: you want to talk about your bp | 19:22 |
| sriram | amitgandhinz: yeah sure. | 19:22 |
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| sriram | the blueprint aims to address testing of actual flows themselves. | 19:22 |
| sriram | rather than testing the tasks contained within the flows. | 19:23 |
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| sriram | malini pointed out that it should be possible to do. | 19:23 |
| amitgandhinz | does the api tests capture the whole flow? | 19:23 |
| amitgandhinz | who you want to be able to do it within the unit/fn tests? | 19:23 |
| sriram | yes it does. | 19:23 |
| amitgandhinz | s/who/or | 19:23 |
| sriram | it would be a functional test, with a mocked zookeeper I guess. | 19:24 |
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| amitgandhinz | ok | 19:24 |
| sriram | I'm not entirely sure of the scope of the test, but I think it'd best to try first. If we decide, that api tests would be enough, we can close the bp. | 19:25 |
| sriram | malini: thoughts? | 19:25 |
| sriram | would you like to chime in? | 19:25 |
| malini | let me look at it again | 19:25 |
| malini | I will update the bp with my comments | 19:26 |
| sriram | awesome thanks macbook-uxs! | 19:26 |
| sriram | err | 19:26 |
| sriram | malini :P | 19:26 |
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| malini | :D | 19:26 |
| sriram | wrong tab completion :P | 19:26 |
| amitgandhinz | ok cool | 19:27 |
| amitgandhinz | #topic open discussion | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Poppy Weekly Meeting)" | 19:27 | |
| amitgandhinz | anything else to discuss this week? | 19:28 |
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| malini | none from me | 19:28 |
| amitgandhinz | did everyone vote for the presentation? | 19:28 |
| mpanetta | Yeppers | 19:28 |
| malini | I did :) | 19:29 |
| catherineR | Yes! | 19:29 |
| sriram | amitgandhinz: I'm still thinking about it :P | 19:29 |
| sriram | jk | 19:29 |
| obulpathi | amitgandhinz: I have couple of comments on API docs | 19:29 |
| amitgandhinz | sriram: your fired =P | 19:29 |
| sriram | *you're | 19:29 |
| mpanetta | lol | 19:29 |
| amitgandhinz | obulpathi: go for it | 19:29 |
| mpanetta | I was wondering if someone was gonna do that :P | 19:29 |
| amitgandhinz | sriram: ugh grammar policia | 19:29 |
| malini | sriram can easily find another IRC channel :D | 19:29 |
| obulpathi | regarding geography, I am thinking it would be good to have a whitelist and blacklist | 19:29 |
| amitgandhinz | i agree | 19:29 |
| obulpathi | that way it will be easy for UI as well | 19:30 |
| amitgandhinz | maybe a flag on the rule | 19:30 |
| obulpathi | or each of them can be a list | 19:30 |
| amitgandhinz | rule : {name = blah, geography = x, whitelist = true} | 19:30 |
| obulpathi | whitelist list | 19:30 |
| obulpathi | anything works as long as we have both lists | 19:30 |
| obulpathi | under content section | 19:30 |
| obulpathi | for cookies and headers | 19:31 |
| amitgandhinz | i dont want to have another list | 19:31 |
| sriram | there should be validation. we dont want a country to be both blacklisted and whitelisted :O | 19:31 |
| obulpathi | does the use needs have one ruler per cookie | 19:31 |
| * amitgandhinz depends on the size of the cookie | 19:32 | |
| obulpathi | ok, I think I got this | 19:32 |
| obulpathi | hahhaah | 19:32 |
| obulpathi | I was thinking we can implement this using a list of cookies to forward | 19:32 |
| amitgandhinz | if each rule has a flag, then we follow the rule of order is important | 19:32 |
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| obulpathi | but lists is not a good idea | 19:32 |
| amitgandhinz | and last one wins | 19:32 |
| obulpathi | got it | 19:32 |
| obulpathi | thanks :) | 19:32 |
| amitgandhinz | do we like the whitelist/blacklist nouns? | 19:33 |
| amitgandhinz | or go with something like "allow/disallow" | 19:33 |
| amitgandhinz | or other ideas? | 19:33 |
| amitgandhinz | we can look at what other api's are doing here | 19:33 |
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| catherineR | Is there an industry standard term? | 19:34 |
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| sriram | I'm ok with whitelist, blacklist. I mean its pretty clear what each means. | 19:34 |
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| malini | whitelist, blacklist sounds better to me | 19:34 |
| obulpathi | whitelisting and blacklisting +1 | 19:35 |
| amitgandhinz | but if its an item, and not a list | 19:36 |
| amitgandhinz | does list make sense? | 19:36 |
| obulpathi | hahaha | 19:36 |
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| obulpathi | allow/disallow make sense then | 19:36 |
| malini | whitestuff & blackstuff :/ | 19:36 |
| sriram | lol | 19:37 |
| amitgandhinz | allowed and blocked? | 19:37 |
| mpanetta | Are we bikeshedding here?? :P | 19:37 |
| sriram | aah, the *stuff*'s the best. | 19:37 |
| mpanetta | Oreostuff | 19:37 |
| amitgandhinz | allowedsttuff and blockedstuff? | 19:37 |
| obulpathi | redstuff/greenstuff?? | 19:37 |
| malini | mpanetta: tht is black AND white! | 19:37 |
| * mpanetta now wants an oreo | 19:37 | |
| obulpathi | flows with traffic :) | 19:38 |
| mpanetta | malini: Yep! | 19:38 |
| amitgandhinz | this meeting is derailing | 19:38 |
| malini | I vote for just whitelist & blacklist | 19:38 |
| sriram | Ok, I think we officially de-railed this meeting. :) | 19:38 |
| wbrothers | how about redlight and greenlight | 19:38 |
| amitgandhinz | i like allowed and blocked as its explicit | 19:38 |
| amitgandhinz | whitelist makes me wonder if white is good or bad | 19:38 |
| sriram | alright. | 19:39 |
| mpanetta | They are both good in oreos :P | 19:39 |
| malini | "A whitelist is a list or register of those that are being provided a particular privilege, service, mobility, access or recognition" | 19:39 |
| amitgandhinz | ok lets noodle on it | 19:39 |
| malini | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitelist | 19:39 |
| * sriram noodles | 19:39 | |
| malini | amitgandhinz: u have a good point ! it creates wrong associations! | 19:39 |
| amitgandhinz | anything else to discuss? | 19:39 |
| malini | oreos? | 19:40 |
| obulpathi | also | 19:40 |
| mpanetta | Dubblestufft plz | 19:40 |
| obulpathi | I have seen default rule for geo in couple of places | 19:40 |
| obulpathi | I can't remember where | 19:40 |
| obulpathi | so if a country does not match the allow/disallow | 19:40 |
| obulpathi | what is the default behaviour? | 19:40 |
| mpanetta | Hmm | 19:41 |
| amitgandhinz | hmm, so if you have no geo rule, everything is allowed | 19:41 |
| mpanetta | Why can't one set a default policy (allow all/dissalow all) and then set explicit allows or denys? | 19:41 |
| sriram | by default we should allow stuff right? | 19:41 |
| amitgandhinz | if you have an allowed item, then only those are allowed and all others are blocked | 19:41 |
| mpanetta | This is how firewalls work for example. | 19:42 |
| sriram | mpanetta: nice, like a firewall policy. | 19:42 |
| mpanetta | Yes | 19:42 |
| amitgandhinz | mpanetta: +1 | 19:42 |
| malini | tht is a great idea | 19:42 |
| obulpathi | so if we have a disallow item | 19:42 |
| obulpathi | everything else is allowd? | 19:42 |
| sriram | yes | 19:42 |
| obulpathi | but, what if the user have both? | 19:43 |
| obulpathi | so we only allow either allow or disallow | 19:43 |
| obulpathi | nand not both? | 19:43 |
| sriram | err. | 19:43 |
| mpanetta | You can't have bth | 19:43 |
| sriram | we validate that? | 19:43 |
| sriram | right? | 19:43 |
| obulpathi | yes, we can validate | 19:43 |
| amitgandhinz | hmmm....how do we reflect this clearly | 19:43 |
| obulpathi | but what do we want to have? | 19:43 |
| malini | mpanetta: how will a sample entry look like? | 19:44 |
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| mpanetta | well in the firewall world you say the default policy is allow all (for example) but disallow x, y and z. | 19:44 |
| mpanetta | OR you deny all by default and allow a, b, c | 19:44 |
| mpanetta | You can't have both. | 19:44 |
| malini | Can you allow: cake, disallow: oreo ? | 19:45 |
| amitgandhinz | so do we create a geography rule where geography = "*", allow = True | 19:45 |
| mpanetta | No, not usually | 19:45 |
| amitgandhinz | and then all other geo rules are blocked | 19:45 |
| cpowell | depends on what you are doing, sometimes is easier to do whitelisting over blacklisting | 19:45 |
| malini | that makes sense.. | 19:45 |
| mpanetta | Yeah | 19:45 |
| malini | we wont need to allow one geo & disallow another | 19:45 |
| amitgandhinz | for geo, may just want to block one or two countries, and not whitelist 200 countries | 19:46 |
| cpowell | right | 19:46 |
| mpanetta | Yeah | 19:46 |
| sriram | I think we should be able to control granulairty. | 19:46 |
| cpowell | I think for this use case, blacklisting is better | 19:46 |
| sriram | with regions and country codes. | 19:46 |
| sriram | block 2 countries, allow all regions | 19:46 |
| obulpathi | lot of websites, whitelist too | 19:46 |
| mpanetta | Would we use our own list and then map those to the provider names? | 19:46 |
| amitgandhinz | thats why i think you set a deafult geo rule for * and allow/disallow it. and then get granular with the rest | 19:46 |
| malini | sriram: tht wud be disallow: 2 countries & everything else get in -rt? | 19:46 |
| mpanetta | amitgandhinz: ++ | 19:47 |
| sriram | malini: yes | 19:47 |
| sriram | so if we have control over granularity, there shouldnt be issues when we configure. | 19:47 |
| obulpathi | we can let the user have either whitelist / blacklist | 19:48 |
| obulpathi | and decide the default based on it | 19:48 |
| obulpathi | we validate and make sure that user can not have both | 19:48 |
| amitgandhinz | so does the api generate the default rule ? | 19:49 |
| amitgandhinz | or do we let the user create it | 19:49 |
| obulpathi | we can have default whitelisted | 19:49 |
| malini | will that cause problems in any geos, megan_w_ ? | 19:49 |
| sriram | api generates it. | 19:49 |
| amitgandhinz | so by default allow all? | 19:49 |
| amitgandhinz | or block all? | 19:49 |
| obulpathi | allow all | 19:49 |
| amitgandhinz | ok | 19:50 |
| amitgandhinz | works for me | 19:50 |
| sriram | amitgandhinz: I vote for allow all | 19:50 |
| malini | Will that create issues in certain countries? | 19:50 |
| sriram | malini: could you explain? | 19:50 |
| amitgandhinz | #agreed, geo will by default ALLOW ALL, user can specify what geo's to BLOCK. User can edit the default to be BLOCK ALL | 19:50 |
| sriram | +1 | 19:51 |
| malini | I mean if countries with strict censorship etc. want to block content, our users could get into trouble | 19:51 |
| malini | or maybe they shud know better? | 19:51 |
| mpanetta | Hmm | 19:52 |
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| amitgandhinz | the user can create the appropriate rule | 19:52 |
| malini | I vote to make the user specify to whitelist or blacklist | 19:52 |
| malini | why wud we want to allow all by default? | 19:52 |
| amitgandhinz | we are a democracy | 19:52 |
| obulpathi | when we create the service using UI, we want to make it really easy | 19:52 |
| amitgandhinz | most users will want to allow all geo's | 19:53 |
| obulpathi | that way user can create basic stuff first like domain and origins and then add other rules later | 19:53 |
| sriram | if we make it complicated, might confuse users. | 19:53 |
| amitgandhinz | if you block all by default, then customers lose traffic and business | 19:53 |
| malini | megan_w_: what do u think? | 19:53 |
| amitgandhinz | we should explicitly show the rules applied | 19:53 |
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| amitgandhinz | so then the user can change it if they want to | 19:53 |
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| malini | I am worried abt that poor user who will end up in jail because of our API :'( | 19:54 |
| cpowell | default allow all: +1 | 19:54 |
| * amitgandhinz 5 min warning | 19:54 | |
| mpanetta | I don't think it s the responsibility of the content provider to cater to the laws of other countries, Usually it is the person in the country with the crazy rules that is responsable... | 19:54 |
| mpanetta | malini: I don't think it works that way | 19:54 |
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| mpanetta | If someone is providing content against the laws of the coutry they are in then they should not be providing it at all... | 19:54 |
| wbrothers | mpanetta: Think about Google and China | 19:55 |
| malini | ok..the majority wins here | 19:55 |
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| megan_w_ | here's my take.. | 19:55 |
| megan_w_ | from what i've heard, habing both allow and deny is preferable | 19:55 |
| mpanetta | wbrothers: That is different, google isn't providing content, they are finding it, and filtering the results. | 19:55 |
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| wbrothers | But they are filtering the content | 19:55 |
| malini | grr..I dont want to give examples & be politically incorrect | 19:56 |
| mpanetta | Not the content, just the results. | 19:56 |
| megan_w_ | amitgandhinz: i assume geo needs to follow the same parameters of all the other rules, right? | 19:56 |
| cpowell | we can take it offline | 19:56 |
| wbrothers | And the are required to provide information to the government | 19:56 |
| mpanetta | They don't link to banned content... | 19:56 |
| mpanetta | Hrm | 19:56 |
| megan_w_ | yeah, perhaps offline is better | 19:56 |
| amitgandhinz | megan_w_: yes, what we decide here would apply to all restriction rules | 19:56 |
| mpanetta | I personally think the whole thing is out of scope... But that is me :P | 19:56 |
| malini | mpanetta: it probably is | 19:56 |
| amitgandhinz | so referrer restrictions will also get a ALLOW ALL/ DENY ALL option | 19:56 |
| megan_w_ | mpanetta: all rules out of scope?? | 19:56 |
| amitgandhinz | as will Client ip etc | 19:57 |
| mpanetta | The customer is responsible for the content not us. | 19:57 |
| amitgandhinz | httpmethods | 19:57 |
| wbrothers | I think legal needs to weigh in on the content subject | 19:57 |
| megan_w_ | all other providers have rules | 19:57 |
| megan_w_ | its a standard feature | 19:57 |
| mpanetta | megan_w_: Not the rules, just worrying about blocking content. | 19:57 |
| megan_w_ | they want to be able to block at the edge so it doesn't hit their origin | 19:57 |
| amitgandhinz | where to block content for who from who is out of our scope | 19:57 |
| mpanetta | Then let them. I am just saying the legality of things is out of scope for us. | 19:58 |
| amitgandhinz | we just provide teh tools to be able to do so | 19:58 |
| mpanetta | amitgandhinz: Yes | 19:58 |
| megan_w_ | amitgandhinz: right | 19:58 |
| megan_w_ | ok, one more question on this | 19:58 |
| sriram | mpanetta: +1 | 19:58 |
| megan_w_ | amitgandhinz: what'st he point in an ALLOW ALL | 19:58 |
| amitgandhinz | ALLOW ALL countries, but BLOCK USA | 19:58 |
| megan_w_ | wouldn't you just not create a rule? | 19:58 |
| amitgandhinz | if i say BLOCK USA, ALLOW NZ | 19:59 |
| cpowell | yes | 19:59 |
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| megan_w_ | that's redundant. you just want to allow nz | 19:59 |
| amitgandhinz | then what does that block and allow? does it block all countries and just allow NZ, or allow all countries and just block USA | 19:59 |
| malini | megan_w_: +1 | 19:59 |
| amitgandhinz | if i just say allow NZ, then its implied that the rest is blocked | 19:59 |
| cpowell | yes | 20:00 |
| malini | yes | 20:00 |
| amitgandhinz | why not inject the deafult rule that says DENY ALL | 20:00 |
| amitgandhinz | and then the user can edit it | 20:00 |
| malini | time is out | 20:00 |
| amitgandhinz | but its explicit | 20:00 |
| amitgandhinz | timeup | 20:00 |
| megan_w_ | lets take this to the poppy channel | 20:00 |
| amitgandhinz | ok | 20:00 |
| amitgandhinz | thanks everyone | 20:00 |
| amitgandhinz | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 19 20:00:28 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/poppy_weekly_meeting/2015/poppy_weekly_meeting.2015-02-19-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/poppy_weekly_meeting/2015/poppy_weekly_meeting.2015-02-19-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/poppy_weekly_meeting/2015/poppy_weekly_meeting.2015-02-19-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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