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| n0ano | #startmeeting nova-scheduler | 13:59 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 18 13:59:43 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 13:59 |
| cdent | o/ | 13:59 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk abou the scheduler? | 13:59 |
| edleafe | \o | 14:00 |
| cdent | i'm here but happy to pass if there's nothing going (other than pointing at some reviews that need some eyes) | 14:00 |
| * n0ano cdent is too quick too early in the morning | 14:00 | |
| *** bharathm has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:00 | |
| n0ano | cdent, that's was kind of my idea | 14:00 |
| n0ano | let's see who all joins | 14:00 |
| cdent | It's 2 in the afternoon for me, but that's still early for me | 14:00 |
| n0ano | edleafe, isn't it a holiday for you, take a break :-) | 14:01 |
| edleafe | n0ano: not a work holiday, unfortunately | 14:01 |
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| n0ano | how odd, I thought MLK was pretty universal these days, oh well | 14:02 |
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| bauzas | oh méan | 14:03 |
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| bauzas | I was waiting in #openstack-meeting :) | 14:03 |
| bauzas | sooo | 14:03 |
| * bauzas waves | 14:03 | |
| edleafe | it's holiday, yeah, but not a paid day off | 14:03 |
| n0ano | bauzas, NP, I've tried to kick people off #openstack-meeting in the past :-) | 14:04 |
| bauzas | is there an US holiday those days ? | 14:04 |
| bauzas | I can see some folks out | 14:04 |
| n0ano | bauzas, yep, Martin Luther King day, it's an official holiday for me, not for edleafe | 14:04 |
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| bauzas | ok | 14:05 |
| n0ano | anyway, let's get started | 14:05 |
| n0ano | I like cdent idea, let's just have some quick opens and go, so | 14:05 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 14:05 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:05 | |
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| cdent | gerrit ill? | 14:06 |
| n0ano | cdent, reall? I got emails yesterday, if you think it is broke you should bring it up on #openstack-nova | 14:06 |
| cdent | No, just now it was giving me 502s | 14:07 |
| cdent | several times | 14:07 |
| cdent | but I guess it was a blip | 14:07 |
| cdent | I wanted to point at this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262561/ a documentation tuneup that's been sitting idle for a while | 14:07 |
| bauzas | gerrit wfm | 14:08 |
| edleafe | cdent: I got blipped, too, but then it started working again | 14:08 |
| n0ano | working now, hopefully OK | 14:08 |
| * cdent shrugs, c'est le gerrit | 14:09 | |
| n0ano | cdent, looks like you need a couple of +2's on that | 14:09 |
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| bauzas | cdent: cosmetic change only, right? | 14:09 |
| cdent | pretty much | 14:09 |
| cdent | tried to tune some grammar | 14:10 |
| bauzas | okay, I'll look at | 14:10 |
| cdent | and added links | 14:10 |
| bauzas | okay, because me is a French guy, so you know about my grammar | 14:10 |
| n0ano | bauzas, s/me is/I am/ :-) I see your point | 14:11 |
| cdent | Is jaypipes around or is he properly holidaying? It appears holidaying (no tab complete). | 14:11 |
| cdent | I'm wondering what the situation is on the resource-* specs. I've got https://review.openstack.org/#/c/263496/ this (and its relations) pending, but the spec is still out for review | 14:12 |
| n0ano | cdent, jay is always iffy, looks like he's not here today | 14:13 |
| n0ano | cdent, you might want to send him an email to see where he is on the spec | 14:14 |
| bauzas | cdent: since the universe exploded with many specs, I reiterate my will to get the specs + patches in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking | 14:14 |
| cdent | I poked him late last week he said that he'd have something at least by today | 14:15 |
| cdent | he also said he'd put stuff on there but I guess that didn't happen. I'll do it. | 14:15 |
| n0ano | cdent, then a polite reminder to him seems appropriate | 14:15 |
| * cdent nods | 14:16 | |
| n0ano | AOB (Any Other Business)? | 14:16 |
| bauzas | not really | 14:17 |
| cdent | Is 'grep -i schedule tempest' a good way to find scheduler related tests in tempest? | 14:17 |
| bauzas | not really IMJO | 14:18 |
| cdent | is there a good way? | 14:18 |
| bauzas | cdent: you could look at the scenarios rather | 14:18 |
| bauzas | cdent: what do you want to know actually | 14:18 |
| bauzas | ? | 14:18 |
| cdent | I'm trying to do a simple analysis of the extent of scheduler coverage in tempest. I already know that it is pretty weak, but I'm just digging around for a bit more data. And given that tempest is generally inscrutable, I just wondered if there was a way to improve my filtering (so I don't have to read everything). | 14:19 |
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| bauzas | cdent: so, you should rather see which filters are checked | 14:21 |
| bauzas | cdent: by seeing which tests are modifying the CONF opts | 14:22 |
| bauzas | cdent: since by default a very small portion of filters are enabled, it means that if no tempest tests are modifying that flag, you could guess that it's mostly because they don't use them | 14:22 |
| * cdent nods | 14:23 | |
| bauzas | cdent: then, once you admit that 99% of tests (I leave my opinion to be accepting something I dunno) are using the default filters, you could just look at whether the boot requests use hints | 14:23 |
| bauzas | or flavor metadata | 14:23 |
| bauzas | or image extra specs | 14:24 |
| bauzas | by grepping over 'hints' or the other terms | 14:24 |
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| cdent | The implication of all that, though, is there's not much in the way of explicit scheduler testing, rather a lot of implicit stuff as a result of various instance boots | 14:24 |
| bauzas | and then, you'll see that 99% of the time, tempest doesn't care about providing more than just 'eh, scheduler, boot me a request' | 14:24 |
| cdent | yes | 14:24 |
| bauzas | cdent: exactly | 14:25 |
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| cdent | speak of the devil | 14:25 |
| bauzas | cdent: that's my main worries here, all of the scheduler implications are implicit | 14:25 |
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| bauzas | so, lemme now tell you a story | 14:25 |
| bauzas | of someone modifying the scheduler and not having some explicit tempest tests | 14:25 |
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| bauzas | you know how that guy can functionnally test that ? | 14:26 |
| bauzas | he runs the caching scheduler unittests + he runs the cinder functional tests | 14:26 |
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| bauzas | that's the only coverage we have | 14:26 |
| cdent | :( | 14:26 |
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| bauzas | to be clear, just play locally and crash the scheduler | 14:26 |
| bauzas | you'll see that only the caching scheduler should notice that | 14:27 |
| bauzas | not speaking of a full crash | 14:27 |
| bauzas | just something bad in the filters | 14:27 |
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| cdent | Well, my hope here is to gain some understanding of existing stuff so I can make it better (and be prepared for the summit session on the topic next week) | 14:28 |
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| bauzas | cdent: sure, and that's a very valid point | 14:29 |
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| bauzas | cdent: I'm just telling you that we have 3 levels of coverage : 2 in-tree (unit + functional) and one in Tempest and all of them are not veryfying the scheduler but implicitly | 14:30 |
| cdent | yes | 14:30 |
| cdent | I've figured that out | 14:30 |
| bauzas | by saying "implicitly", I mean "run the default filters with a default query and hope that the scheduler will return you a tuple" | 14:30 |
| bauzas | s/hope/assert | 14:31 |
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| * cdent nods | 14:31 | |
| n0ano | one hessitates to say that at least that's something and testing can always be made better | 14:31 |
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| * cdent nods at that too | 14:31 | |
| n0ano | anyway, anything else? | 14:32 |
| cdent | not from me | 14:32 |
| bauzas | crickets from me | 14:33 |
| n0ano | note that, barring arguements from anyone, I'll cancel next week's meeting, it should be a travel day for the mid-cycle for most | 14:33 |
| bauzas | ++ | 14:33 |
| cdent | +1 | 14:33 |
| n0ano | OK, tnx everyone, some will talk in person next week, the rest of us will be here in two weeks. | 14:34 |
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| n0ano | #endmeeting | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 18 14:34:19 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-01-18-13.59.html | 14:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-01-18-13.59.txt | 14:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-01-18-13.59.log.html | 14:34 |
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| ihrachys | will start in 2 mins. waiting for folks. | 15:00 |
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| rossella_s | ihrachys, I am here | 15:02 |
| mhickey | Hi | 15:02 |
| mhickey | things are very quiet rossella_s!:) | 15:02 |
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| rossella_s | mhickey, is that bad or good? | 15:03 |
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| mhickey | who knows!:) | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | ok let's start :) | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | #startmeeting neutron_upgrades | 15:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 18 15:03:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_upgrades' | 15:03 |
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| ihrachys | let's go straight to specific patches :) | 15:04 |
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| ihrachys | #topic partial upgrade | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "partial upgrade (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:04 | |
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| ihrachys | we have some great progress on that front. specifically, we seem to understand the reason for job failures: bad mtu settings in multinode gate | 15:04 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, good news | 15:05 |
| ihrachys | we have a gerrit topic for all those patches | 15:05 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:multinode-neutron-mtu | 15:05 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, MTU is always problematic...I hope we will fix it | 15:05 |
| ihrachys | it does not completely fix the job, but at least we go past initial resource creation, run tests, and only 3 of those fail | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | (all due to ssh not working on FIP) | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | folks are looking further on those failures, maybe it's also mtu related, just now on br-ex side (previous issue was due to bad mtu from br-tun side) | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | ok, let's move on :) | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | #topic objects | 15:07 |
| rossella_s | thanks for the recep ihrachys | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "objects (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:07 | |
| korzen | I had one patch on DVR multinode grenade experimental job - can we enable it in short while? | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | rossella_s: wanna update? | 15:07 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, yes | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | korzen: sorry, let's return to that a bit later | 15:07 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, I updated the agenda too, so I have a patch regarding port the allowed address pairs extension | 15:07 |
| korzen | ok, no problem | 15:07 |
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| rossella_s | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268274/ | 15:08 |
| rossella_s | folks interested in having a task can look in the backlog, I have listed the extensions that needs to be ported | 15:08 |
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| rossella_s | regarding the port ovo, tests are passing, work is paused since I want to port all the extensions needed first so that we can move the whole port object to ovo | 15:09 |
| ihrachys | rossella_s: cool! patch seems quite clean on brief sight | 15:09 |
| rossella_s | reviews are welcome :) | 15:09 |
| ihrachys | not invasive or smth :) | 15:09 |
| rossella_s | I tried ihrachys | 15:10 |
| rossella_s | another patch to mention is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268273/ "Handle OVO that don't have ID as primary key" | 15:10 |
| rossella_s | I'd appreciate if you ihrachys could have a look | 15:10 |
| rossella_s | it's a way of handling object that don't have the "id" field | 15:10 |
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| rossella_s | that's all from me | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | oh right. that is indeed missing in base db api. will check. | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | korzen: what's on your side? | 15:11 |
| korzen | so I have the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/264273 - I have added the status there | 15:11 |
| korzen | current the unit tests are failing, I'll be working on fixing them | 15:12 |
| korzen | The network OVO is used in one use case - DHCP requests | 15:12 |
| ihrachys | nice. also specific coverage should be added to all new objects. | 15:12 |
| korzen | yes, that's too | 15:12 |
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| korzen | currently there is only the GET method implemented using the ML2plugin | 15:13 |
| ihrachys | I see you added RBAC object. I think hdaniel had some patch for qos policies to add rbac support there that required objects. probably not sent to gerrit yet though. | 15:13 |
| korzen | yes, the NetworkRBAC is just for reference | 15:14 |
| korzen | I did not use it so can remove it from my patch | 15:14 |
| korzen | I have worked also on Subnet OVO | 15:14 |
| ihrachys | ok cool. I will get back to hdaniel to see what's ETA on his side for RBAC aware objects | 15:14 |
| korzen | in the same patch | 15:14 |
| ihrachys | korzen: will we be able to split it? | 15:15 |
| korzen | I can split but I guess that is can be also introduced in one patch Netrwork and Subnet | 15:15 |
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| ihrachys | or there are some obstacles against doing it? | 15:15 |
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| ihrachys | I prefer to split concerns. it's easier for reviewers to grasp | 15:16 |
| korzen | without subnet ovo the network ovo is using the custom JSON field | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | and hence merge :) | 15:16 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, +1 | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | then I guess we first introduce subnets, then networks | 15:16 |
| rossella_s | yep | 15:16 |
| korzen | ok, I'm fine with it | 15:16 |
| rossella_s | your network patch can depend on the subnet on korzen | 15:16 |
| korzen | ok, I will change it | 15:17 |
| ihrachys | korzen: thanks! | 15:17 |
| ihrachys | any more updates on objects? | 15:17 |
| korzen | I have also introduced the RPC serialiazer | 15:17 |
| ihrachys | korzen: what's that? link? | 15:17 |
| korzen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/269056 | 15:17 |
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| korzen | it is the case where we are sending the OVO via RPC not dicts | 15:18 |
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| korzen | the output is that we can deserialize the object on the client side | 15:18 |
| korzen | and check for the compatible version | 15:18 |
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| korzen | currently we are using the OVO on server side | 15:19 |
| ihrachys | korzen: what's the expected usage for the serializer in neutron? | 15:19 |
| ihrachys | korzen: we also use it on agent side, for qos | 15:19 |
| ihrachys | thru rpc callbacks | 15:19 |
| korzen | and on client's, the info metadata about what is the version is lost | 15:19 |
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| korzen | we can send the OVO via RPC and check on client side if it is matching the client's code | 15:20 |
| korzen | it is maily for future use, for example for backports | 15:20 |
| ihrachys | yeah, but it's assumed for now versions haven't changed. and once the ajo's patch for rolling upgrades for rpc callbacks is merged, agents should always receive their own version. | 15:20 |
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| korzen | Indirection API - ask server to translate the message to required lower version | 15:21 |
| korzen | it can also log the error message | 15:21 |
| korzen | for admin usage | 15:21 |
| ihrachys | korzen: we have it in some form for rpc callbacks. if we don't use them, yes, it may make sense. | 15:21 |
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| ihrachys | ok, I guess we'll need to discuss it in review itself | 15:22 |
| korzen | are we going to use rpc callcabacks for ports and networks? | 15:22 |
| ihrachys | korzen: yes, that was the assumption | 15:22 |
| ihrachys | using rpc callbacks for all object state propagation from server to agents | 15:22 |
| korzen | ok, so lets look into my patch and see if it is usable for neutron | 15:23 |
| ihrachys | right. should be considered in more broad context, looking it general rpc strategy we'll take. | 15:23 |
| ihrachys | #topic other patches | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "other patches (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:24 | |
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| ihrachys | korzen: what was that about dvr? | 15:24 |
| korzen | let me link it | 15:24 |
| korzen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250215 | 15:25 |
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| korzen | Create DVR multinode grenade job for Neutron upgrade tests | 15:26 |
| korzen | it is introducing the DVR gate job for grenade testing | 15:26 |
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| ihrachys | not gate, experimental for now | 15:26 |
| korzen | yeap, I meant experimental | 15:27 |
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| ihrachys | korzen: should we maybe fix legacy mode first as sc68cal suggested? | 15:27 |
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| korzen | yes, this is my thinking also, but I wanted not to lost my commit there | 15:28 |
| ihrachys | as long as it's not abandoned, we won't loose it :) | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | ok, I have one small update to devref related to RPC rolling upgrades | 15:29 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/268125 | 15:29 |
| ihrachys | reviews welcome | 15:29 |
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| rossella_s1 | Noted ;) | 15:29 |
| ihrachys | anything else worth attention? mhickey? | 15:29 |
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| ihrachys | ok, probably nothing :) | 15:31 |
| rossella_s1 | :) | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | #topic open discussion | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:31 | |
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| ihrachys | anything else anyone wants to share? | 15:31 |
| korzen | do you think we can land the OVO implementations for Mitaka? | 15:32 |
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| rossella_s1 | We can try at least | 15:32 |
| ihrachys | korzen: pieces of it, yes. I am not very optimistic about *all* the pieces we could in theory merge. | 15:32 |
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| ajo | hi, I'm around now | 15:33 |
| korzen | any advice how to proceed to get most of it merged? | 15:33 |
| korzen | more decoupling? | 15:33 |
| korzen | more manpower? | 15:33 |
| ihrachys | korzen: well, we need reviews and proper test coverage. | 15:33 |
| rossella_s1 | More tests | 15:33 |
| ihrachys | korzen: yes, decoupling helps. one piece at a time | 15:33 |
| ihrachys | ajo: ok tell us about rpc callbacks | 15:33 |
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| ajo | ihrachys : ack, the core logic is up for review here: https://review.openstack.org/265347 | 15:34 |
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| mhickey | ihrachys: sorry; was distrecated | 15:34 |
| ajo | and integration is WIP https://review.openstack.org/268040 I hope I will publish the final integration there tomorrow | 15:34 |
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| mhickey | *distracted* | 15:35 |
| ajo | first patch is the one that calculates the version sets that need to be pushed over the wire, | 15:35 |
| ihrachys | I am proceed reviewing the ajo's patch, but more eyes would be welcome. I need to admit it's hard to understand and we may need to shuffle it for a bit. | 15:35 |
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| ajo | and the second one, introduces the needed RPCs (agents->neutron-server) to update versions quickly to all running neutron servers as the agents come up | 15:35 |
| rossella_s1 | I will have a look too...I put it in my queue | 15:36 |
| mhickey | ajo: i will give more feedback as I understand more | 15:36 |
| ajo | ihrachys , ack, that's ok, the easier to understand, the better. | 15:36 |
| mhickey | ihrachys: need to sync with HenryG today on has_offline_migrations patch | 15:37 |
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| ihrachys | folks, that's re https://review.openstack.org/248190 ^ | 15:37 |
| ihrachys | mhickey: I saw folks tested it and reported success back. nice. | 15:37 |
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| mhickey | ihrachys: just need to see if solution is enough till the "one env" | 15:38 |
| ihrachys | mhickey: I see you need to hardcode table names for *aas | 15:38 |
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| ihrachys | mhickey: does it mean it won't work with other subprojects? | 15:38 |
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| mhickey | ihrachys: yes; most ugly but might be no point in doing more until the env are squashed | 15:39 |
| mhickey | ihrachys: what other subprojects? | 15:39 |
| ihrachys | I see. we need to think at least about how we handle those cases. | 15:39 |
| ihrachys | mhickey: well, any 3party plugin | 15:40 |
| ihrachys | mhickey: like vmware-nsx | 15:40 |
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| mhickey | ihrachys: not if they are using a version table that is not "alembic_version" | 15:40 |
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| ihrachys | mhickey: I suspect they don't, need to check with HenryG | 15:41 |
| mhickey | ihrachys: yes; if thats the case then we would need some configuration to help tell Neutron what is the version table name. | 15:41 |
| ajo | another example: https://github.com/openstack/networking-sfc/tree/master/networking_sfc/db/migration/alembic_migrations/versions/liberty | 15:42 |
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| ihrachys | mhickey: https://github.com/openstack/networking-sfc/blob/master/networking_sfc/db/migration/alembic_migrations/env.py#L26 | 15:42 |
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| ihrachys | mhickey: yeah, I think I mentioned before we may need to have some API for plugins to pass the table names | 15:43 |
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| ajo | may be using stevedore hooks? | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | mhickey: and if they don't, we can just bail out with an error. | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | ajo: yes, that would be the idea | 15:43 |
| mhickey | ihrachys; my goodness, we are opening Pandora's box! :) | 15:43 |
| ajo | mhickey pandora box was open long ago :D | 15:43 |
| mhickey | ajo: sure... | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | yeah, the day neutron repo was created | 15:43 |
| ajo | lol | 15:44 |
| rossella_s1 | ajo :D | 15:44 |
| rossella_s1 | Lol | 15:44 |
| mhickey | lol | 15:44 |
| ihrachys | ok, we'll need to figure out something for subprojects. :) | 15:44 |
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| mhickey | ok, let me investigate it more and see how I can try and bring the patch to a good state for merging. | 15:44 |
| ihrachys | ok, let's wrap the meeting. seems like all is discussed. | 15:45 |
| ihrachys | thank you folks! | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 18 15:46:05 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-01-18-15.03.html | 15:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-01-18-15.03.txt | 15:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-01-18-15.03.log.html | 15:46 |
| korzen | thanks, bye :) | 15:46 |
| mhickey | bye, thanks | 15:46 |
| rossella_s1 | Bye | 15:46 |
| roaet | farewell | 15:46 |
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| dims | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for GheRivero, amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, harlowja, haypo, | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 18 16:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dims. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for ihrachyshka, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz, lifeless, lintan, ozamiatin, redrobot, rpodolyaka, spamaps | 16:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for sergmelikyan, sreshetnyak, sileht, sreshetnyak, stevemar, therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek, gcb | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:00 |
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| jecarey | 0/ | 16:00 |
| toabctl | hi | 16:00 |
| jd__ | hello | 16:00 |
| bknudson_ | hi | 16:00 |
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| rpodolyaka | o/ | 16:00 |
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| dims | hi kgiusti jecarey toabctl jd__ bknudson_ rpodolyaka | 16:00 |
| ozamiatin_ | o/ | 16:00 |
| bknudson_ | we actually don't have the day off here. | 16:01 |
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| dims | bknudson_ : aha | 16:01 |
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| dims | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:01 | |
| rbradfor | o/ | 16:01 |
| bknudson_ | None for keystone -- I'm getting a little worried about some deprecated oslo.db stuff that we haven't fixed up yet... more of a yellow flag. | 16:02 |
| ihrachys | none for neutron | 16:02 |
| * rpodolyaka wonders what we deprecated recently in oslo.db | 16:02 | |
| dims | bknudson_ : haven't been fixed in keystone? | 16:02 |
| dims | rpodolyaka : probably the engine facade? | 16:02 |
| bknudson_ | yes, keystone has to change engine usage | 16:02 |
| rpodolyaka | ah, yeah | 16:02 |
| bknudson_ | last time I looked at it there were no docs. I think there's docs now. | 16:03 |
| rpodolyaka | the old version is going to stay for a while | 16:03 |
| rpodolyaka | yeah, the action item is till on me to write a blog post on the new facade thing | 16:03 |
| rpodolyaka | or simply docs | 16:03 |
| dims | rpodolyaka : +1 | 16:03 |
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| * rpodolyaka adds it to todo list | 16:04 | |
| dims | #topic Releases for Mitaka | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases for Mitaka (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:04 | |
| dims | does anyone need a release this week? | 16:04 |
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| dims | dukhlov - was waiting on some docs for pika for o.m release | 16:05 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 16:05 |
| dims | hey flaper87 | 16:05 |
| flaper87 | oh, that was to say hi | 16:06 |
| flaper87 | I don't need a release | 16:06 |
| flaper87 | :D | 16:06 |
| dims | :) | 16:06 |
| * flaper87 should try ninja-entering meetings next time | 16:06 | |
| dims | #topic - releases for stable branches | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "- releases for stable branches (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:06 | |
| dims | i see a bunch of discussion over on glance, so thought we could spend a little time here as well | 16:06 |
| dims | starting with an update from me | 16:06 |
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| dims | oslo has stable branches but has not released any library from the stable branches | 16:07 |
| dims | so far | 16:07 |
| bknudson_ | couldn't call it stable if you kept doing releases. | 16:07 |
| dims | the current CI has upper-constraints in stable branches that are uncapped | 16:07 |
| dims | so any releases will not affect any tests in the CI and so we would not even know if we broke something | 16:08 |
| bknudson_ | so CI doesn't run with stable anyways | 16:08 |
| dims | so mriedem and dhellmann and lifeless were trying to come up with a release-constraints file for stable/liberty | 16:08 |
| dukhlov | dims: will do tomorrow, is it ok? | 16:08 |
| dims | and figure out a test matrix that will run against that | 16:09 |
| dims | dukhlov : +1 | 16:09 |
| dims | once that's in place we can make stable/liberty library releases | 16:09 |
| dims | so we'll end up with a set of oslo libraries cut from stable/liberty and a set of oslo libraries from master, both of which should not break say stable/liberty nova or keystone | 16:10 |
| dims | per the openstack-spec in progress from lifeless | 16:10 |
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| dims | haypo, flaper87, makes sense? | 16:10 |
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| haypo | dims: what i see is that it becomes much harder to change anything in oslo | 16:11 |
| dims | the idea is that packagers will still be able to use stable/liberty branches and corresponding libs and not have to pull from master | 16:11 |
| haypo | dims: which is a real pain point for me | 16:11 |
| dims | haypo : right that's a valid concern and one of my top problems as well | 16:11 |
| haypo | dims: i don't understand the rationale behaviour always using the latest version of oslo for all openstack versions | 16:11 |
| bknudson_ | packagers already use old releases and don't always get from master. | 16:12 |
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| haypo | dims: for me, it's perfectly fine to stop at oslo.context < 2.0 on liberty (for example) | 16:12 |
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| dims | haypo : you need to respond on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226157/ | 16:12 |
| dims | bknudson_ : right | 16:12 |
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| haypo | the problem is that it becomes really hard to estimate how much code will be broken if we change oslo and all openstack releases use the latest oslo versions | 16:12 |
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| dims | haypo : you should talk to mriedem on openstack-stable about the capping, he is in favor of it but it's very hard to do with experience from previous releases | 16:13 |
| haypo | dims: i hesitate to qualify my change as a corner case, since it breaks the API | 16:13 |
| bknudson_ | you would like to be able to upgrade the libraries to master and then upgrade the servers, so it makes sense to want to support some backwards compat. | 16:13 |
| dims | haypo : yes, that the next problem on my list which is being able to predict what we break | 16:13 |
| haypo | dims: and an obvious alternative is to keep the old attribute and add a new one, as dhellmann suggested | 16:13 |
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| haypo | my point is that python3 is *not* used by anything, so it's cheaper to break the API than having the dead slow deprecation process ... which does *not* work (see multiple discussions on openstack-dev) | 16:14 |
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| dims | haypo : for this specific thing let's talk to dhellmann once more when he is around. | 16:15 |
| bknudson_ | keystone server doesn't support python3 yet. | 16:15 |
| bknudson_ | not sure if it even will in M. | 16:15 |
| haypo | bknudson_: yeah, openstack products are kind of certified with a set of oslo versions | 16:15 |
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| haypo | bknudson_: since we don't run functional tests on python 3, it would be unsane to deploy openstack on python 3 today | 16:16 |
| dims | bknudson_ : haypo : we should start with comments on the spec and follow up with discussion on openstack-stable with mriedem, etc | 16:16 |
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| dims | haypo : yes, for this change. i just want to be sure everyone else understands the implications for the rest of the work | 16:17 |
| dims | let's get through one more item and then we can talk more | 16:18 |
| dims | #topic Add failure remoting best-of-breed spec | 16:18 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229194/ | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add failure remoting best-of-breed spec (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:18 | |
| dims | harlowja : around? | 16:18 |
| haypo | dims: the concrete impact of my oslo.context change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250731/ is that i will break python3 gates of some projects | 16:18 |
| dims | i need some eyes on this review please per harlowja's request | 16:18 |
| bknudson_ | the description sounds like a xkcd comic about standards. | 16:18 |
| dims | bknudson_ : y commit message is funny, the actual spec is better :) | 16:19 |
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| dims | #topic Open discussion | 16:19 |
| dims | Any other stuck reviews? | 16:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:19 | |
| rbradfor | I have a discussion point | 16:20 |
| dims | haypo : do you want to ping PTL(s) about removing their python3 jobs in stable/liberty? | 16:20 |
| ozamiatin_ | dims: I've got these minor changes: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268097/, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268110/ | 16:20 |
| ozamiatin_ | dims: And this big one, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268792/ will get ready soon (pep8 etc) | 16:21 |
| dims | haypo : you could get the ball rolling with a note on -dev. | 16:21 |
| bknudson_ | what's the problem with python3 jobs on stable/liberty? | 16:21 |
| dims | ozamiatin_ : ack thanks, will add to my queue | 16:21 |
| haypo | dims: i don't think that it's a good idea to remove py3 gates | 16:21 |
| ozamiatin_ | dims: thanks | 16:21 |
| dims | haypo : so what's left is the slow deprecation process? | 16:22 |
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| haypo | dims: i just said it to explain that it will not impact anyone in practice, but it's usually a good practice to test code | 16:22 |
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| haypo | dims: for the specific case of glance? well, there is still the option of accepting my patch which already has a +2 :-) | 16:22 |
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| haypo | dims: but i'm probably over confident, since ian is strongly opposed to that :) | 16:22 |
| dims | haypo : i'll leave that to glance cores :) | 16:22 |
| bknudson_ | I guess the unit test jobs on keystone don't get us anything since you can't run keystone that way anyways. | 16:23 |
| dims | kgiusti jecarey toabctl jd__ bknudson_ rpodolyaka - anything else to discuss? | 16:24 |
| kgiusti | dims: nope | 16:24 |
| rpodolyaka | no | 16:24 |
| dims | kgiusti : were you able to check on compression options for your driver? | 16:24 |
| jd__ | nop | 16:24 |
| dims | rpodolyaka : jd__ : thanks | 16:25 |
| kgiusti | dims: sorry, no - I will do that today. | 16:25 |
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| jecarey | No | 16:25 |
| bknudson_ | security midcycle was last week | 16:25 |
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| bknudson_ | keystone midcycle is next week | 16:25 |
| dims | w00t: have fun bknudson_ | 16:26 |
| dims | kgiusti : ack thanks | 16:26 |
| bknudson_ | nova must be coming up too | 16:26 |
| dims | jecarey : thanks | 16:26 |
| dims | bknudson_ : next week i think | 16:26 |
| dims | i won't make it to either one | 16:26 |
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| dims | k let's wrap it up for this week. thanks everyone | 16:27 |
| dims | #endmeeting | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 18 16:27:37 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-01-18-16.00.html | 16:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-01-18-16.00.txt | 16:27 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-01-18-16.00.log.html | 16:27 |
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| ativelkov | Courtesy meeting reminder: nikhil_k, ativelkov, mfedosin, docaedo - artifacts subteam meeting | 17:00 |
| docaedo | o/ | 17:00 |
| ativelkov | #startmeeting glance_artifacts_sub_team | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 18 17:00:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ativelkov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance_artifacts_sub_team)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance_artifacts_sub_team' | 17:00 |
| docaedo | o/ | 17:00 |
| ativelkov | hi docaedo, it's great to have you here | 17:01 |
| ativelkov | Folks, anybody else for the artifacts updates? | 17:01 |
| docaedo | :) | 17:01 |
| kzaitsev_mb | everyone's probably getting ready for m-2 =) | 17:02 |
| docaedo | Since you guys gave me a chance to vote on a new meeting time, and scheduled it at a time when I can actually make it, I'm happy to attend | 17:02 |
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| ativelkov | So it seems like we don't have much attendance today | 17:02 |
| ativelkov | The agenda is here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-artifacts-sub-team-meeting-agenda | 17:02 |
| dshakhray | o/ | 17:02 |
| ativelkov | So we have several specs which were frozen due to the spec freeze happened at the end of the year | 17:03 |
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| ativelkov | I've asked for the formal FFE exception for them | 17:04 |
| ativelkov | One is the API refactoring spec, called "Public API" | 17:04 |
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| ativelkov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/254710/ | 17:04 |
| ativelkov | This one addresses most of the defCore and API-WG concerns expressed during the last cycle | 17:05 |
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| ativelkov | Its implementation is expected to be fast, however the API approval tends to be a looong process | 17:05 |
| ativelkov | So, I've asked for the exception: I am sure we'll be able to land the implementation even if the design is approved close to the code freeze | 17:06 |
| ativelkov | And the second spec just adds more details on the separation of glance and glare daemon processes | 17:07 |
| ativelkov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/259427/ | 17:07 |
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| ativelkov | It's just a refinement of the previously approved spec, and its implementation is ready long ago. | 17:08 |
| ativelkov | So I've asked for FFE for this one as well | 17:08 |
| ativelkov | flaper87 told that the decision on these FFE requests will be made later today | 17:08 |
| docaedo | Hopefully you'll get it, would be unfortunate not to | 17:08 |
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| ativelkov | The third large glare-related spec - on pluggable DB backends seems to be frozen and will be postponed to the N release | 17:09 |
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| ativelkov | That's ok, since its implementation requires the public API and other changes to be done first, so we are unlikely to land all of them in Mitaka | 17:10 |
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| * jokke_ == late lurker | 17:10 | |
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| ativelkov | docaedo: it would be great if you and your team could review this spec anyway | 17:11 |
| ativelkov | since it allows to change the DB implementation of glare for particular deployments | 17:11 |
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| docaedo | I added myself as reviewer to the two on the etherpad and will try to read them carefully this morning | 17:11 |
| ativelkov | and is mostly inspired by our conversation at the summi | 17:11 |
| ativelkov | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/260447/ | 17:12 |
| docaedo | nice, I'll do that one too | 17:12 |
| ativelkov | this one is the third one, it was not present in the etherpad | 17:12 |
| ativelkov | thanks! | 17:12 |
| ativelkov | So, mfedosin (not present here) promised to begin the work on the actual implementation of Public API spec this week. He probably has something done already, but not submitted to gerrit yet | 17:13 |
| ativelkov | I hope to have some live patch from him on the next week | 17:13 |
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| ativelkov | Ok, that was all on the status update, not much this time | 17:14 |
| ativelkov | #topic open discussion | 17:14 |
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| ativelkov | Anything else? Questions, suggestions? | 17:14 |
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| docaedo | I'd like to start thinking about how we can 'experiment' with this in relation to the app catalog, but I'm not sure where the best place to start would be | 17:15 |
| ativelkov | docaedo: well, kzaitsev_mb planned to prototype the current app catalog schema with the current version of the glare | 17:16 |
| docaedo | ativelkov: do you have WIP or PoC code that I could play with? Or is it too early? | 17:16 |
| docaedo | ah ok, will coordinate with kzaitsev_mb on that | 17:16 |
| ativelkov | technically we may use the same code which we showed on the summit for this purpose | 17:16 |
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| docaedo | that's what I figured | 17:16 |
| ativelkov | PLus, we've added the CORS support to glance | 17:16 |
| docaedo | +1 | 17:17 |
| ativelkov | CORS was one of the issues we discussed with Kevin - he said it could be a blocker. Now we have it enabled for both glance-api and glare-api | 17:17 |
| docaedo | that's great! It would have been an issue (because of interaction between the web site and the horizon plugin) | 17:17 |
| ativelkov | So we may attempt to use glare from app-catalog javascripts and see if it works as expected | 17:17 |
| docaedo | cool, well let me/us know how we can help | 17:18 |
| ativelkov | Sure. I'll sync up with kzaitsev on that, we'll let you know on app-catalog meeting on Thursday | 17:18 |
| docaedo | great thank you! | 17:18 |
| ativelkov | Any other questions? | 17:19 |
| docaedo | not from me :) | 17:19 |
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| ativelkov | OK, thanks, then we may wrap up for today | 17:19 |
| ativelkov | Thanks for joining! | 17:19 |
| jokke_ | thnx | 17:20 |
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| docaedo | sure see you later on | 17:20 |
| ativelkov | #endmeeting | 17:20 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 18 17:20:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance_artifacts_sub_team/2016/glance_artifacts_sub_team.2016-01-18-17.00.html | 17:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance_artifacts_sub_team/2016/glance_artifacts_sub_team.2016-01-18-17.00.txt | 17:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance_artifacts_sub_team/2016/glance_artifacts_sub_team.2016-01-18-17.00.log.html | 17:20 |
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| catherineD | #startmeeting refstack | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 18 19:00:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is catherineD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:00 |
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| rockyg | o/ | 19:02 |
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| pvaneck | o/ | 19:02 |
| catherineD | rockyg: hello.. | 19:02 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 19:02 |
| alexandrelevine | o/ | 19:02 |
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| sslypushenko | o/ | 19:02 |
| catherineD | #link meeting agenda and notes, please feel free to add items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-16-01-18 | 19:03 |
| catherineD | hello everyone ... | 19:03 |
| andrey-mp | o/ | 19:03 |
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| catherineD | I think we finally get the ball rolling for the Vendor Registration Process tasks ... thx to alexandrelevine: and andrey-mp: ... | 19:04 |
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| rockyg | ++ | 19:05 |
| catherineD | #link meeting agenda and notes, please feel free to add items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-16-01-18 | 19:05 |
| catherineD | #topic DefCore Meeting Jan 13, 2016 | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DefCore Meeting Jan 13, 2016 (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:05 | |
| catherineD | #link I requested DefCore to review Alex's requirement doc https://goo.gl/bvo4FG | 19:06 |
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| alexandrelevine | catherineD: Thank you. That's good to hear. | 19:07 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine: could you allow DefCore core member to add comments to the doc | 19:07 |
| alexandrelevine | Absolutely, give me the emails | 19:07 |
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| catherineD | sure rockyg: hogepodge: could you send alexandrelevine: your gmail? | 19:08 |
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| catherineD | not sure gmail is really needed ... or any email will do? | 19:08 |
| rockyg | it's the mailing list. hold a sec. Or Ican send to the list... | 19:09 |
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| rockyg | any will do. you just need the link. | 19:09 |
| hogepodge | catherineD: my openstack e-mail can read google documents | 19:09 |
| catherineD | rockyg: I think Chris, Mark, Egle and Rob will do ... | 19:09 |
| catherineD | for now | 19:09 |
| alexandrelevine | I can share it with everybody to allow editing if you want | 19:09 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine: that would be great | 19:09 |
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| alexandrelevine | Everyone can comment now | 19:10 |
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| catherineD | alexandrelevine: DefCore alsop would like to have a summary in Etherpad of the items that RefStack would like DefCore to review. | 19:10 |
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| catherineD | alexandrelevine: can you and I create and Etherpad before next DefCore meeting on Wed? | 19:11 |
| catherineD | #link After DefCore review the Etherpad we will request for Mark to update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/ | 19:12 |
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| catherineD | all good? | 19:12 |
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| catherineD | moving to the next topic ... | 19:13 |
| pvaneck | sure | 19:13 |
| catherineD | #topic RefStack implementation of Vendor Registration Process | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RefStack implementation of Vendor Registration Process (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:13 | |
| rockyg | Also, if you want to join the defcore list and just open the doc to people with the link, the ML is: defcore-committee@lists.openstack.org | 19:13 |
| alexandrelevine_ | Sorry, I lost my connection and missed a couple of minutes. | 19:14 |
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| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: we are onto the next topic in the agenda .. | 19:15 |
| alexandrelevine_ | perfect | 19:15 |
| catherineD | #link Data model specs https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268922/ | 19:15 |
| catherineD | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/269184/ | 19:16 |
| catherineD | Let's discuss the comment in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268922/ | 19:16 |
| catherineD | Doe we want to add a role attribute at this time ? | 19:17 |
| catherineD | please see comment in line 57 of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268922/ | 19:18 |
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| alexandrelevine_ | I just added a comment. | 19:19 |
| alexandrelevine_ | I'm still against it altogether. | 19:19 |
| alexandrelevine_ | I explained that regular Vendor users will be achieved by adding another built-in group ID (Users group) into Vendor record. | 19:19 |
| sslypushenko | catherineD: I'm little bit confusing from idea to get rid of user role... I saw some related discussion in comments but still can't get a point | 19:19 |
| alexandrelevine_ | All of the Users in that Group will have non-admin rigths. No explicit roles required. | 19:20 |
| sslypushenko | That is mean that group can not have 2 admins? | 19:20 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: you mean all of the users in that group will have admin right? | 19:20 |
| alexandrelevine_ | Role - is a complex thing usually. And it is an extra thing. Unless we really need it I'd suggest we don't introduce it. | 19:20 |
| sslypushenko | I don't see how things will be working without it | 19:21 |
| alexandrelevine_ | catherineD: Each Vendor will have two built-in Groups: Admins (now already), Users (later when needed). That's it. In the Group table we'll be adding users to those two groups. | 19:21 |
| andrey-mp | it can be a two groups in the vendor records - admin group and user group... | 19:21 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: I absolutely think that we need it ... maybe not now but for sure in the future | 19:21 |
| rockyg | Role tends to be a requirement that maps to an implementation, but most implementations implement roles via ACLs or other methods | 19:21 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: ++ | 19:21 |
| alexandrelevine_ | We will have implicit role differentiation. I'm against having explicit roles. | 19:22 |
| sslypushenko | andrey-mp: We can not put roles in vendor table | 19:22 |
| rockyg | groups is the way ACLs are done | 19:22 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: why would we want to do that? Let say in the future we want top add an other roles we will create an other user group? | 19:22 |
| sslypushenko | because vendor can have more than one product | 19:22 |
| rockyg | catherineD, Yup | 19:22 |
| andrey-mp | btw, why we need regular users in the vendor object? | 19:23 |
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| rockyg | actually, another group, but not user. Some other name | 19:23 |
| alexandrelevine_ | catherineD: Because I don't want to predict whatever requirements might or might not fall on us some long time from now. We need to keep things very simple to move fast.. | 19:23 |
| sslypushenko | All this idea looks like a try to hardcode some ACL's logic in datastucture | 19:23 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: andrey-mp: I did not see adding a role to the relationship would complicate the tasks.... in fact it helps | 19:23 |
| alexandrelevine_ | andrey-mp: It's in the requirements. There is a use-case. I'll tell you in a moment. | 19:23 |
| sslypushenko | I'm totally against it | 19:23 |
| catherineD | I really think that we should introduce role now ... | 19:24 |
| alexandrelevine_ | andrey-mp: The use-case Cloud Operator allows some of his private results or Clouds to be visible for some Users | 19:24 |
| sslypushenko | catherineD: 100500+ ) | 19:24 |
| catherineD | and let a policy file dictate the role privilege .. | 19:25 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: with a policy file ... you can add new role anytime .. no prediction needed .. | 19:25 |
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| sslypushenko | catherineD: we can introduce policily latter... but we need roles now | 19:25 |
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| alexandrelevine_ | catherineD: In this case the model doesn't suite at all. Because where would you put those regular users? In the admin group? Why would you want the admin group in the vendor at all in this case? It's just a completely different story. | 19:26 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: agree | 19:26 |
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| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: we still agree with the model ... | 19:26 |
| sslypushenko | alexandrelevine_: why we need to put regular users anywere? | 19:27 |
| alexandrelevine_ | catherineD: no, it doesn't work with the explicit roles. Role entity is not in the Domain model. | 19:27 |
| alexandrelevine_ | catherineD: And it'll have to be rethought quite a bit and I still don't understand the point now. | 19:27 |
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| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: the model assum all users that can create an entities are admins of that entities at this time | 19:28 |
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| alexandrelevine_ | sslypushenko: Because they are regular users for some particular Vendor. They are allowed to read objects of such Vendor. No other regular users are allowed to. | 19:28 |
| rockyg | alexandrelevine_, I think maybe an etherpad or doc walkthrough of how another "role" would be added via adding a group (or groups) might help with this discussion | 19:28 |
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| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: those regular user will have the role=USER | 19:28 |
| alexandrelevine_ | sslypushenko: See the use-case in question: 26 | 19:28 |
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| sslypushenko | alexandrelevine_: Hmmm... So how public clouds will live in RefStack? | 19:29 |
| alexandrelevine_ | catherineD: Role for what? A user can be an Admin for a couple of Vendors and a regular user for the rest of the objects | 19:29 |
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| alexandrelevine_ | Every User has basic rights. Users in Vendor Admin groups also have rights for those Vendors. | 19:30 |
| rockyg | alexandrelevine_, an example of users and admins on a public cloud offering could help explain how you see this working. | 19:30 |
| catherineD | Repeat question 26: Cloud Operator allows some of his private results or Clouds to be visible for some Users | 19:30 |
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| pvaneck | Is a vendor not just associated with one group id? | 19:30 |
| rockyg | Maybe for next week? | 19:30 |
| rockyg | Vendor could be associated with multiple groups. | 19:31 |
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| andrey-mp | pvaneck: right now we had such assumption ) | 19:31 |
| catherineD | for question 26.... if a User wants to see private data of an Cloud Operator , that user should belong to the group of the Cloud_operator with role=USER | 19:31 |
| rockyg | Vendor, vendor-product-admin, vendor-product-user, vendor-admin, vendor-product2-user, etc | 19:32 |
| alexandrelevine_ | pvaneck: Vendor is associated with one Group ID. User can be in many groups. | 19:32 |
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| andrey-mp | rockyg: what case of association vendor with many groups? | 19:32 |
| alexandrelevine_ | andrey-mp: There is no such case | 19:33 |
| sslypushenko | alexandrelevine_: So how we will give admin privileges? | 19:33 |
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| sslypushenko | record in product table? | 19:33 |
| alexandrelevine_ | sslypushenko: Users registered in particular built-in admin Vendor group will have admin priviliges for this vendor. | 19:33 |
| andrey-mp | i thought that all users in the group linked with vendor are admins of this vendor | 19:33 |
| pvaneck | with just one group per vendor, then group roles should facilitate the different permission levels needed by these use cases | 19:33 |
| rockyg | Unless all vendor associated groups (users, admins, plus all product options) are under one group id, vendor has to own multiple groups | 19:34 |
| catherineD | andrey-mp: that is the initial implementation ... | 19:34 |
| catherineD | pvaneck: ++ | 19:34 |
| sslypushenko | alexandrelevine_: It will be better to have product admin group instead on vendor admin... | 19:34 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: I have a feeling that the term USER means different thing for you and for me sslypushenko: and pvaneck: | 19:34 |
| sslypushenko | I think I manage to get your point | 19:34 |
| rockyg | so, either multiple vendor owned groups, or single vendor group with roles. Two ways to implement | 19:35 |
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| alexandrelevine_ | One Vendor - One Group. Users in this Group are admins of the Vendor. | 19:35 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: this is the point that alexandrelevine_: had discussed ... a group should be associated to a product too ... but it will be the next implementation | 19:36 |
| sslypushenko | alexandrelevine_: Hmm... but what about private test result? | 19:36 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: One vendor , one group, Users in this group can be admin or read only user ... | 19:36 |
| catherineD | read only user can view private results of that vendor | 19:37 |
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| catherineD | and that is implemented by introducing role of user in that group ... | 19:37 |
| pvaneck | I feel like we just need a toggle for if a user is admin or non-admin in a specific group if you want some users to only have read-only access | 19:37 |
| catherineD | pvaneck: yup that is fine by we need role ... admin and non-admin | 19:38 |
| catherineD | so my vote is to keep the role column in the user-group relationship table ... | 19:38 |
| sslypushenko | catherineD: +1 | 19:38 |
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| catherineD | should we vote? | 19:39 |
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| sslypushenko | at least 2 rooles | 19:39 |
| catherineD | yup | 19:39 |
| rockyg | Could keep it in and if i looks like it adds no value, it can be removed later? | 19:39 |
| alexandrelevine_ | I'm sorry. I have an urgent call now. | 19:39 |
| catherineD | alexandrelevine_: ok np | 19:39 |
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| catherineD | we can just discuss the next item and will make decision with your present .. | 19:40 |
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| andrey-mp | lets move to next ) | 19:40 |
| catherineD | #agree we will vote on having a role column in the user-group relationship table later | 19:41 |
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| catherineD | #agreed we will vote on having a ROLE column in the usdr-group relationship table later | 19:41 |
| catherineD | #topic Auditability implementation for RefStack? Do we need the "updated" columns? | 19:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Auditability implementation for RefStack? Do we need the "updated" columns? (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:42 | |
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| catherineD | please see comments on line 126 of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268922/ | 19:42 |
| catherineD | I know this is not perfect .. but with the updated column .. at least we know who is updating the record last ... | 19:43 |
| sslypushenko | I don't get a point of this field | 19:43 |
| catherineD | preferly audit should be done by database log ... | 19:43 |
| andrey-mp | i think that if we need logging that it is better to create 'add-only' table with all records. | 19:44 |
| andrey-mp | is database can help? it contains operations from only one user - refstack site | 19:44 |
| sslypushenko | If we want to have some logging we should do it in some other way | 19:44 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko: let say someone changes the role from user to admin ... the user who makes the update will be loggoed | 19:44 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: agree ... but in the interim .... is there something we can do? | 19:45 |
| sslypushenko | but do we need such kind of logging | 19:45 |
| sslypushenko | ? | 19:45 |
| andrey-mp | i mean that all operations with refstack db is done by refstack site that means 'refstack' user. | 19:46 |
| rockyg | does the DB have that function as part of the config? | 19:46 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko: see line 163 of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/ | 19:46 |
| catherineD | rockyg: db will have the log ... but we need log analysis tools ... | 19:46 |
| andrey-mp | may be it is better to implement 'add-only' logging table later? | 19:46 |
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| catherineD | andrey-mp: would that e an additional table? | 19:47 |
| andrey-mp | yes | 19:47 |
| rockyg | catherineD, if we've got the logging, then the analysis should be outside the db. | 19:48 |
| catherineD | we can remove the updated column (which is not perfect for auditting ) we jsut need to communicate to DefCore that auditting will be implemanted later .. | 19:48 |
| rockyg | Although last change would at least give a starting point on where to look in logs. | 19:48 |
| andrey-mp | table that doesn't linked with the system but contains all (or specific) write operations. and later some can analyse this table for information... | 19:48 |
| catherineD | andrey-mp: ++ | 19:49 |
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| sslypushenko | andrey-mp: That is sounds good | 19:49 |
| catherineD | rockyg: hogepodge: DefCore should be OK with us not implementing auditting at the initial phase? | 19:49 |
| andrey-mp | :) | 19:49 |
| catherineD | so do we all agree that we do not need the updated columns? | 19:50 |
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| hogepodge | catherineD: I think so | 19:50 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko: pvaneck: rockyg: your thoughts? I know andrey-mp: wants to have it removed .. | 19:51 |
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| rockyg | works for me. As long as logging is there, we have the info. Just not great access. | 19:51 |
| pvaneck | Yea, i think an eventual audit_log table would be best | 19:51 |
| sslypushenko | catherineD: It looks like it is early for now | 19:51 |
| sslypushenko | pvaneck: +1 | 19:52 |
| catherineD | #agreed Autting function will be implemented later. Remove the "updated" related columns in all tables. | 19:52 |
| catherineD | #topic Do we need the "deleted" columns? | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Do we need the "deleted" columns? (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:53 | |
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| sslypushenko | yeap | 19:53 |
| catherineD | pls see comment line 138 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268922/ | 19:53 |
| sslypushenko | I think we need soft delete | 19:53 |
| sslypushenko | it is part of functionality of oslo-db | 19:54 |
| catherineD | just a time check ...we only have 6 mins to go ... could we continue our discussion at #refstack after this ... | 19:54 |
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| sslypushenko | +1 | 19:54 |
| andrey-mp | yes | 19:54 |
| catherineD | we have the momentum going so I really like us to continue discussion ..... | 19:55 |
| catherineD | thank you | 19:55 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko: so I have not seen RefStack using the delete column in the existing tables... | 19:55 |
| sslypushenko | that is right | 19:55 |
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| catherineD | but I guess if that is part of oslo-db ... then we may want to keep it | 19:56 |
| sslypushenko | but I think we need it... it is kind of openstack way) | 19:56 |
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| catherineD | alright ... but before our final decision let review the next topic ... because it is related ... we will come back to this item in a bit | 19:57 |
| andrey-mp | we can leave these two columns and use them later ) | 19:57 |
| catherineD | #topic Do we want to enforce organization/product name to be unique? | 19:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Do we want to enforce organization/product name to be unique? (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:57 | |
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| catherineD | andrey-mp: + | 19:57 |
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| catherineD | That means that the name will be unique based on spelling only not upper/lower case ... so Private Cloud and PRIVATE CLOUD are the same name for us ... | 19:59 |
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| catherineD | let move to #refstack ... | 19:59 |
| sslypushenko | + | 19:59 |
| andrey-mp | I don't have strong desicion on this but my thoughts that we don't need it | 19:59 |
| andrey-mp | moving... | 19:59 |
| catherineD | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 18 19:59:41 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2016/refstack.2016-01-18-19.00.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2016/refstack.2016-01-18-19.00.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2016/refstack.2016-01-18-19.00.log.html | 19:59 |
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| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 18 20:00:46 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| woodster_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| diazjf | 0/ | 20:01 |
| spotz | o/ | 20:01 |
| jmckind_ | \o/ | 20:01 |
| edtubill | o/ | 20:01 |
| kfarr | o/ | 20:01 |
| redrobot | all the usual suspects :) | 20:02 |
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| arunkant | o/ | 20:02 |
| redrobot | As usual the agenda can be found here: | 20:03 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican#Agenda | 20:03 |
| redrobot | #topic Action Items | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:04 | |
| redrobot | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-01-04-20.00.html | 20:04 |
| redrobot | I had a ton of action items, but only finished one | 20:04 |
| redrobot | so I have to punt on a couple | 20:04 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to check on status of reported security bug | 20:04 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to ping ccneill about the nova+cinder security bug | 20:04 |
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| redrobot | #topic Liaison Updates | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liaison Updates (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:05 | |
| redrobot | I half-attended the oslo meeting this morning | 20:05 |
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| redrobot | looks like the mitaka-2 releases for oslo.* have been released | 20:05 |
| redrobot | Any other liaison updates? | 20:06 |
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| redrobot | hockeynut isn't here so I'll skip QA | 20:06 |
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| redrobot | someone pinged me about documentation... looks like we'll be having to write some WADLs and such to get our API docs up to spec | 20:07 |
| redrobot | but I was busy with midcycle things so I haven't had a chance to look into all the work that needs to be done | 20:07 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to follow up with Anne Gentle re: docs | 20:07 |
| diazjf | redrobot, I know a couple people here would like to join the effort on updating docs | 20:08 |
| redrobot | alee isn't here either so I'll skip the Magnum cross-project stuff | 20:08 |
| redrobot | diazjf cool, I'll keep you posted with what I find out | 20:08 |
| redrobot | ok, on to the agenda for today | 20:08 |
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| redrobot | which I'm going to make up on the fly, because nobody added anything to the wiki | 20:08 |
| redrobot | #topic Mid-Cycle Recap | 20:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-Cycle Recap (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:09 | |
| redrobot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-mitaka-midcycle | 20:09 |
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| redrobot | The mid-cycle meetup last week was awesome. Many thanks to everyone who made the trip down to San Antonio | 20:09 |
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| edtubill | thanks for having us it was fun. | 20:09 |
| silos | o/ | 20:10 |
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| redrobot | There's lots of notes in the etherpad, including a lot of ACTION items | 20:10 |
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| redrobot | some of those have not been claimed, so if anyone is looking for things to do, have a gander at the etherpad | 20:10 |
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| rellerreller | o/ (sorry I'm late) | 20:12 |
| redrobot | also, for those of you interested in Federation, diazjf will be working on a cross-project effort to get Push BYOK into OpenStack | 20:12 |
| redrobot | rellerreller gonna need you to stay for 12 min after the meeting is over. :-P | 20:12 |
| rellerreller | redrobot booo :( | 20:12 |
| diazjf | redrobot, I'll have a spec up in OS-Security by the end of the week 8-) | 20:12 |
| hockeynut | redrobot hockeynut is in another meeting :-( | 20:13 |
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| rellerreller | diazjf is that for byok? | 20:13 |
| redrobot | rellerreller yep | 20:13 |
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| diazjf | rellerreller, yup see https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cEA79A5fG1 | 20:14 |
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| redrobot | rellerreller we had a few cross-team discussions with the ossp folks, and the consensus was that Push-model (where the client always provides the key) would be a good starting point. | 20:14 |
| diazjf | ^ general notes from the midcycle | 20:14 |
| redrobot | the idea is to bring an implementation plan to the Austin summit and talk about it during the cross-project design sessions. | 20:15 |
| redrobot | anyway, awesome stuff during the midcycle | 20:16 |
| redrobot | although we didn't land much in the way of blueprints | 20:16 |
| redrobot | which brings me to the next topic | 20:16 |
| redrobot | #topic Blueprint: API healthcheck | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint: API healthcheck (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:16 | |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207317/ | 20:16 |
| redrobot | there were some concerns about this BP | 20:17 |
| redrobot | I think that as long as this is an optional endpoint, and disabled by default, then I would be for adding it | 20:17 |
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| woodster_ | sounds reasonable | 20:18 |
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| redrobot | rellerreller what do you think? I recall you being concerned about the new unauthenticated resource | 20:19 |
| rellerreller | I would rather see it have access controls in place and then if you want it like the spec describes then allow all read. | 20:20 |
| rellerreller | I think it is better to have the security baked in up front as opposed to later. | 20:20 |
| rellerreller | But if it is optional it's not a big deal for me. | 20:20 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: so deployers would mod their policy json files for that call then? | 20:21 |
| redrobot | rellerreller so you'd like to see the default policy need auth for it, even if it's opt-in ? | 20:21 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ yes | 20:21 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ you would modify policy to allow all and then continue as normal | 20:21 |
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| rellerreller | redrobot yes | 20:21 |
| redrobot | seems reasonable to me. I'll add a comment to the spec linking back to this meeting. | 20:22 |
| rellerreller | I feel like if it is not added now then people will enable it and there will be informatio leak | 20:22 |
| redrobot | #agreed Healthcheck endpoint should be authenticated in the default policy file, and disabled in the default paste config. | 20:22 |
| rellerreller | I also think it will fit the pattern of the other end points as well. This one won't look any different. | 20:22 |
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| woodster_ | rellerreller: shold this be an admin only access then? | 20:23 |
| rellerreller | My only other comment on that one was about the return value. | 20:23 |
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| rellerreller | woodster_ I think admin would be good. | 20:23 |
| redrobot | rellerreller woodster_ to be clear, this should be accesible only by the service-admin (the account owned by the deployer) | 20:24 |
| rellerreller | I was wondering why not return different error codes for different errors? | 20:24 |
| redrobot | ? | 20:24 |
| rellerreller | redrobot that sounds good to me. | 20:24 |
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| rellerreller | It seems like if returning a more specific error code would be helpful. That way can begin to identify source of issue (db, threading, etc.) | 20:25 |
| redrobot | rellerreller haven't looked at an exhaustive list of 5xx errors lately, but it makes sense to return different ones where appropriate | 20:25 |
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| redrobot | I'll leave that as a comment as well, since jkf isn't here to talk about the spec | 20:26 |
| rellerreller | redrobot not 5xx errors from web server, but application defined error codes. | 20:26 |
| redrobot | rellerreller ah I see... I think there was a concern about information leak, but if we're locking it down by default, then error codes may make sense. | 20:26 |
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| rellerreller | redrobot those are my thoughts exactly. | 20:27 |
| redrobot | ok, I think we've got enough to move this BP forward | 20:27 |
| redrobot | on to the next one | 20:27 |
| woodster_ | please add comments to the blueprint for sure | 20:27 |
| rellerreller | will do | 20:28 |
| redrobot | #topic Blueprint: Mutiple secret-store backends | 20:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint: Mutiple secret-store backends (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:28 | |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/263972/ | 20:28 |
| redrobot | I don't particularly care for this BP. I fundamentally disagree with the assumption that separate endpoints for distinct backends are "not a good user experience" | 20:29 |
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| redrobot | that said, I seemed to be the only dissenting one at the midcycle | 20:29 |
| rellerreller | I am dissenting | 20:29 |
| arunkant | redrobot: I see some good comments from alee so will update this one. rellerreller: Is it possible to remove -2 so that larger community can provide comments on this. | 20:30 |
| rellerreller | I don't see how the other services will know which backend to use. | 20:30 |
| redrobot | rellerreller I think you and I are the minority here | 20:30 |
| redrobot | As I understand the BP, the backend would be configurable per-project | 20:30 |
| rellerreller | redrobot what are your thoughts on -2? | 20:30 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: it is similar to how CAs are discovered now...there would be a ca_id sort of thing optionally specified to designate a secret store backend | 20:31 |
| rellerreller | redrobot I put -2 to make sure not merged because I have strong reservations against it. I did not want it to be merge, but I also don't want to block discussion. | 20:31 |
| rellerreller | I'm not exactly sure of the policy on that stuff. | 20:31 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: ...and project-configured default backends | 20:31 |
| redrobot | rellerreller I'm not sure whether -2 discourages reviews from other reviewers. | 20:32 |
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| woodster_ | Overall I like the possibility of having different 'qualities of service' for secrets in barbican | 20:33 |
| redrobot | rellerreller I would personally only -1, because I disagree with the BP but I'm deferring to others to weigh in on it too, and possibly merged if it gets enough support. | 20:33 |
| woodster_ | ...but that is the sort of discussion to have on the blueprint CR I suppose :) | 20:33 |
| redrobot | rellerreller sounds like you have a hard stance against it though, so -2 seems appropriate. | 20:33 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ +1, but I'm not sure if this is the best way to achieve that. | 20:33 |
| arunkant | redrobot: I have seen people even not looking into spec if it has -2 on it. | 20:34 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: if you can pitch an alternate approach that would be cool as well | 20:34 |
| rellerreller | redrobot I do feel strongly about this one. Until I know for sure this will not break features, which I believe it will, then I would not like for this to merge. It is a big change. | 20:34 |
| redrobot | woodster_ the alternate approach is already in the BP. basically use different deployments of Barbican for different backends. | 20:34 |
| woodster_ | redrobot: oh got it I though rellerreller had a different idea in mind | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | No, that was it. | 20:35 |
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| arunkant | rellerreller: alee has already commented on transport key topic in spec and as per midcycle disucssion, I don't recall any isse around that during discussion | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | I'm worried about relationships between keys and how that would work. | 20:36 |
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| redrobot | so one of the use cases that made sense to me was for a big cloud offering Barbican aaS, then upselling the customer into a "more secure hsm-backed" backend for more $ and still have them use the same endpoint. | 20:37 |
| rellerreller | Like can I create a container that has keys in two different backends? | 20:37 |
| woodster_ | My preference is to tag secrets with quality of service explicitly, then the backend is selected automatically/optionally based on that, but that could wait till later. | 20:37 |
| rellerreller | I would like to see key wrapping at some point. What if my keys are in two different backends? | 20:37 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: containers are just lightweight collections of secrets...the secrets are independent | 20:37 |
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| arunkant | rellerreller: Whatever is the concern, that can be raised in spec review. Please jJust don't block the discussion. We have very valid use-cases around this. | 20:38 |
| rellerreller | I'm not blocking the discussion. The discussion can happen and should. | 20:38 |
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| redrobot | arunkant if there are Barbican cores that are avoiding the review because of the -2 please let me/them know. I don't think we should ignore reviews based on a single dissenting vote. | 20:39 |
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| arunkant | redrobot: What -2 means..that this spec can never be merged. The concerns raised have been discussed nd updated in spec. I don't see why it needs to have -2 if there are some specific concern. | 20:41 |
| arunkant | redrobot: I don't have any control on how other people behave when they see -2 or -1..but generally -2 means, its blocked so people would not even go there to review. | 20:43 |
| arunkant | redrobot: I think there was enough consensus in mid-cycle and people have interest in having this feature. | 20:44 |
| redrobot | arunkant I understand your concern, but I think that since rellerreller has a strong opinion on this, that the -2 from him is appropriate. Like I said, if you feel other reviewers are not reviewing because of it, let me know. | 20:44 |
| redrobot | arunkant there was, but currently there are no +X votes on there. | 20:44 |
| redrobot | arunkant and I do apologize for not setting up a hangout last Friday | 20:45 |
| arunkant | redrobot: alee has already reviewed it and you were also reviewing in midcycle. | 20:45 |
| redrobot | arunkant I was tied up with OSSP mid-cycle | 20:45 |
| arunkant | I believe _woodster was also okay with the idea. | 20:46 |
| woodster_ | it would probably be good for everyone's action items this week to review the blueprints out there...folks are standing by to implement them and we are running out of time in this cycle | 20:46 |
| redrobot | woodster_ +1 | 20:46 |
| woodster_ | arunkant: the feature seems useful to me for sure | 20:47 |
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| arunkant | I don't see any outstanding question from rellerreller on this..other than we may want to implement key wrapping in some future ..and that may have some issue. | 20:47 |
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| redrobot | I think the concern was around the added complexity of having concurrent backends and the implications for other features, such as containers. | 20:48 |
| arunkant | redrobot: I am not sure what complexity, it adds. Its new feature quite similar to CA support which alee added in liberty. | 20:49 |
| rellerreller | Yes, key dependencies/transport keys, added complexity, and implications for other features | 20:50 |
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| arunkant | I don't see what kind of complexity is being talked here. Its opt-in feature which can be very useful in many private cloud deployments. | 20:51 |
| redrobot | I'm going to table this discussion... maybe we can get alee and woodster_ to give some positive reviews of the BP | 20:51 |
| redrobot | then revisit later this week, maybe do a google hangout | 20:52 |
| redrobot | #topic Blueprint: DB cleanup | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint: DB cleanup (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:53 | |
| edtubill | ok | 20:53 |
| redrobot | edtubill you were talking about this yes? | 20:53 |
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| arunkant | redrobot: I am all for discussion and making the spec better if there are any technical or functional concern but cannot answer on future features. | 20:53 |
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| edtubill | yes, there were some constraints that I was worried about, so I wanted to set up a hangout later on so we can discuss this. | 20:54 |
| edtubill | And wanted other people to join in if interested | 20:54 |
| redrobot | ok, so to summarize for other folks | 20:54 |
| redrobot | (and try to fit into a few min) | 20:54 |
| redrobot | edtubill is working on a BP to clean up the DB | 20:54 |
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| redrobot | edtubill a new function of barbican-manage would delete soft-deleted and expired secrets. | 20:55 |
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| redrobot | however, currently Orders has a non-nullable reference to Secret | 20:55 |
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| edtubill | ok, so for that was a false concern | 20:55 |
| redrobot | which means we can't delete Secrets that were created by an order even if the Secret is soft-deleted or expired | 20:56 |
| redrobot | ... | 20:56 |
| edtubill | I looked at it again and it is nullable, but I would need to set it to null first. | 20:56 |
| redrobot | or I may be making up stuff :D | 20:56 |
| edtubill | :) no that was my bad. But there was another thing for order_retry_tasks that I was worried about. | 20:56 |
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| edtubill | for what happens if someone deletes an order when it was in the retry queue | 20:56 |
| redrobot | edtubill does it affect the clean up Secrets BP? | 20:57 |
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| edtubill | it shouldn't really, but I'm more interested in getting info on implementation wise. | 20:57 |
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| edtubill | The blue print will be the same, I will make another blue print for expiring secrets. | 20:57 |
| woodster_ | edtubill: the worker processing that request would raise an error due to a non-existent order, but would juts report/log that and the move on | 20:58 |
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| redrobot | edtubill I thought the current BPs would focus on cleaning up Secrets only? | 20:58 |
| edtubill | wooderster_, but would it be cleaned up afterwards? | 20:58 |
| edtubill | redrobot, the blue print is for anything that is soft deletable | 20:58 |
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| edtubill | we aren't touching orders unless it is soft deleted. | 20:59 |
| redrobot | edtubill ok, cool | 20:59 |
| redrobot | almost out of time here... we can continue discussion on #openstack-barbican if people want to stick around. | 20:59 |
| redrobot | thanks for coming everyone | 20:59 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| woodster_ | edtubill: I still think cleaning up deleted orders (or orders with deleted secrets) is important, just not a show stopper necessarily initially | 20:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 18 20:59:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-01-18-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-01-18-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-01-18-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| * hughhalf yawns | 21:00 | |
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| shamail | #startmeeting product working group | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jan 18 21:00:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is shamail. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:00 |
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| shamail | Hi everyone | 21:00 |
| shamail | Roll call? | 21:01 |
| cloudrancher | Kau | 21:01 |
| cloudrancher | wow - can't type Jay | 21:01 |
| shamail | :) | 21:01 |
| hughhalf | Hugh o/ | 21:01 |
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| * MarkBaker here | 21:01 | |
| rockyg | o/ | 21:01 |
| MeganR | o/ | 21:01 |
| shamail | Hi cloudrancher, hughhalf, MarkBaker, MeganR, and rockyg | 21:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:01 |
| shamail | Hi thingee | 21:02 |
| kencjohn_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| shamail | hi kencjohn_ | 21:02 |
| shamail | pretty good turn out! | 21:02 |
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| sgordon | o/ | 21:02 |
| shamail | Before we get started, MarkBaker... Can you please do a brief introduction since you are new to the team? | 21:02 |
| shamail | hi sgordon | 21:03 |
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| kencjohnston | o/ | 21:03 |
| shamail | welcome back | 21:03 |
| kencjohnston | shamail thanks :) | 21:03 |
| shamail | ping MarkBaker | 21:03 |
| shamail | Today's agenda... | 21:04 |
| MarkBaker | shamail, of course: I am OpenStack Product manager at Canonical where I've been for 5 years. Previously Red Hat and MySQL | 21:04 |
| shamail | Thanks MarkBaker! | 21:04 |
| shamail | Welcome to the team. | 21:04 |
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| shamail | Here is the agenda for today: | 21:04 |
| shamail | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 21:04 |
| shamail | #topic User Story Status Review | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User Story Status Review (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:04 | |
| shamail | Let's start with user story status updates... anyone want to begin? | 21:05 |
| kencjohnston | I'll start | 21:05 |
| shamail | thanks. | 21:05 |
| kencjohnston | For rolling upgrades I was slow to submit a new patch based on initial comments | 21:05 |
| kencjohnston | but patch set 6 is up that I think clears up most of the comments | 21:05 |
| kencjohnston | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/255633/ | 21:05 |
| *** dark_15 is now known as FCC | 21:05 | |
| kencjohnston | Most of them came from arkady, who I don't see here. | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | But he had great feedback on incorporating both updates and upgrades into the story | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | so you will see that throughout, not just in the gaps analysis | 21:06 |
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| kencjohnston | Next step is incorporating current state into the tracker | 21:06 |
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| rockyg | ++ | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | which I thnk is still pending review | 21:06 |
| shamail | Arkady is unable to join today but I am sure he will see the change. | 21:06 |
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| shamail | Thanks kencjohnston! I'll review the new user story in the next couple of days too. | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | thanks shamail | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | any questions? | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | comments, concerns, highfives? | 21:07 |
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| * shamail gives kencjohnston a high five | 21:07 | |
| * hughhalf throws a streamer | 21:07 | |
| shamail | Who's next? sgordon, cloudrancher? | 21:08 |
| kencjohnston | thanks shamail hughhalf I'm just going to take the rest of the year off | 21:08 |
| shamail | lol | 21:08 |
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| hughhalf | seems legit kencjohnston | 21:08 |
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| shamail | sgordon, can you please provide an update on CIM? | 21:09 |
| shamail | cloudrancher, are you here? | 21:09 |
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| cloudrancher | yes I am | 21:09 |
| shamail | Okay, let's move on to onboarding legacy infra | 21:10 |
| shamail | Any updates? | 21:10 |
| cloudrancher | submitted patch to user story to incorporate toleration of changes by non openstack management | 21:10 |
| cloudrancher | primarily driven by VMware | 21:10 |
| sgordon | no change atm, still clawing my way back to the top of the pile | 21:10 |
| sgordon | i have a separate submission i am working up to put in draft state | 21:10 |
| shamail | Thanks sgordon | 21:10 |
| shamail | cloudrancher, thanks... I haven't had a chance to review the user story submission yet. I'll put that on my list as well | 21:11 |
| cloudrancher | other than the patch to the user story work is proceeding on blueprints. | 21:11 |
| cloudrancher | that's it for now | 21:11 |
| kencjohnston | cloudrancher and all. I had a question about the intent of our review process. | 21:11 |
| shamail | Do you have a team identified that is helping with that piece? Has gaps analysis been completed already? | 21:11 |
| kencjohnston | Perhaps an agenda topic for another day. | 21:12 |
| cloudrancher | sounds fair | 21:12 |
| shamail | What's the question kencjohnston? That way we can either take it up or add as an agenda item? | 21:12 |
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| kencjohnston | While reviewing should we debate the usefulness/priority/value of the user story? | 21:12 |
| shamail | My take is that it depends on the stage of the user story | 21:13 |
| shamail | I don't think we should during submission to "draft" | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | OK, fair. | 21:13 |
| shamail | but anything above that stage should include discussion on the usefulness | 21:13 |
| rockyg | ++ | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | got it shamail thanks | 21:14 |
| shamail | Thanks, good question though... Maybe we should create a FAQ and add it (along with other questions that I am sure will come up) | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | sure, I can take an action item to start that FAQ | 21:14 |
| shamail | Thanks for the update cloudrancher!! | 21:14 |
| cloudrancher | np | 21:14 |
| shamail | thanks kencjohnston | 21:14 |
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| shamail | #action kencjohnston will create FAQ on wiki for us to start building a knowledge base. | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | and just so I'm not speaking obliquely cloudrancher I'm sure you saw my review comments on your resent patch. | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | trying to find the link now | 21:15 |
| cloudrancher | yes | 21:15 |
| cloudrancher | I understand | 21:15 |
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| kencjohnston | ok, cool | 21:15 |
| cloudrancher | the whole synchronization issue is peculiar to onboarding legacy | 21:15 |
| shamail | Alright, we'll skip onboarding legacy apps | 21:15 |
| shamail | Leong is off today! | 21:16 |
| shamail | For lifecycle management, we still don't have a team but I know there is some interest in IBM | 21:16 |
| shamail | ping nateziemann, are you here? | 21:16 |
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| shamail | He might be afk, but i'll ask him later if we can identify people to help with that one. | 21:17 |
| shamail | Thanks for the updates everyone! | 21:17 |
| shamail | #topic Review of action items assigned at previous meeting | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of action items assigned at previous meeting (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:17 | |
| shamail | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-01-11-21.00.html | 21:17 |
| shamail | There were a few action items from the last meeting and I believe most are closed... | 21:18 |
| shamail | A new etherpad has been created (by rockyg) to capture potential session ideas for Austin | 21:18 |
| shamail | we will go through that during a later section in the agenda | 21:18 |
| shamail | I have not created the "CPL updates" calendar yet | 21:19 |
| shamail | I will create one this week and send to our ML | 21:19 |
| shamail | Leong did create a patch to make user stories be folders inside the "proposed" folder. | 21:19 |
| shamail | kencjohnston, the patch that you linked earlier... that one uses the new format... does it override the patch submitted by Leong? | 21:19 |
| shamail | We currently have 2-3 patches open for rolling upgrades and I think only one needs to move forward while the others can be abandoned | 21:20 |
| kencjohnston | shamail yes, he abandoned that patch due to dependency on my ongoing review | 21:20 |
| shamail | Perfect! thanks. | 21:20 |
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| shamail | Moving to the next topic! | 21:20 |
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| shamail | #topic Review non-merged patches | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review non-merged patches (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:21 | |
| shamail | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-user-stories | 21:21 |
| shamail | The link directs you to all the open patches for openstack-user-stories... I would kindly ask that people save this link and try to review the patches once every week or two (at a minimum) | 21:21 |
| kencjohnston | Rolling upgrades is ongoing | 21:22 |
| kencjohnston | Tracker is ongoing | 21:22 |
| shamail | It would be great to get additional feedback on the user stories (and templates) via gerrit | 21:22 |
| shamail | I have updated tracker to include your suggestions kencjohnston | 21:22 |
| shamail | Please revisit it when you have time | 21:22 |
| kencjohnston | cloudrancher I think https://review.openstack.org/268207 was in error | 21:22 |
| kencjohnston | and was supposed to be a new patch on https://review.openstack.org/266068 | 21:22 |
| shamail | agreed | 21:23 |
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| shamail | The ones with -1 on workflow should be abandoned | 21:23 |
| shamail | I think they have been superceded | 21:23 |
| shamail | Does everyone agree? | 21:23 |
| kencjohnston | shamail +1 | 21:24 |
| cloudrancher | +1 | 21:24 |
| MeganR | +1 | 21:24 |
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| shamail | kencjohnston or I will abandon them by the end of the week... Please let us know via email if you think that action is incorrect. | 21:24 |
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| shamail | (in case people who want to raise objection aren't here today) | 21:24 |
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| kencjohnston | ok, yeah you can assign that action to me shamail | 21:25 |
| shamail | I think tracker and rolling upgrades both would benefit from additional reviews at this point. | 21:25 |
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| shamail | Rolling upgrades needs to be +2'd so that we can continue moving forward | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | is rockyg our only hope? | 21:25 |
| shamail | #actionitem kencjohnston will abandon changes that have -1 workflow by the end of the week (please email if you object) | 21:25 |
| shamail | #action kencjohnston will abandon changes that have -1 workflow by the end of the week (please email if you objec) | 21:26 |
| rockyg | I'll review it....;-) | 21:26 |
| shamail | not sure where I got the item from :P | 21:26 |
| shamail | kencjohnston, I can +2 it as well but I was hoping other team members would +1 it | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | actionitem = corporate speak | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | action = ninja speak | 21:26 |
| shamail | This goes back to your earlier question... rolling upgrades is at a poin where the usefulness, approach, etc should be reviewed | 21:26 |
| shamail | so the more eyes the better. | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | shamail agreed | 21:26 |
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| nateziemann | I personally think rolling upgrades should a topic at the ops summit, so we can gather more reviews/input | 21:27 |
| sgordon | dumb question | 21:27 |
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| shamail | #action Please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/255633/ and add your feedback on usefulness, approach, additional gaps, etc. | 21:27 |
| sgordon | why do people not like items being -1 workflow? | 21:27 |
| shamail | sgordon, do you mean why we don't leave them in that state or why were they -1'd to begin with? | 21:28 |
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| sgordon | well i have an item that is -1 workflow, i set it as that because it is - as that flag states | 21:28 |
| sgordon | Work In Progress | 21:28 |
| shamail | Ah, got it. | 21:28 |
| sgordon | the point of it is to be able to upload the WIP to gerrit without risk that it gets merged ahead of time | 21:29 |
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| sgordon | otherwise you are back to sharing WIP via etherpad etc | 21:29 |
| kencjohnston | got it sgordon - I will refrain from abandoning it | 21:29 |
| shamail | I thought that one was -1 because it had been replaced either through inclusion in another user story or as a new submission that was accepted | 21:29 |
| shamail | good point sgordon | 21:29 |
| kencjohnston | I had used -1 workflow on the other commit in question because I felt like it was in error. Perhaps a misuse of the -1 workflow. | 21:30 |
| sgordon | no | 21:30 |
| shamail | You were using -1 workflow the proper way | 21:30 |
| sgordon | if it's superseded then you use abandon | 21:30 |
| sgordon | which is different :) | 21:30 |
| rockyg | nateziemann, ++ on a session on rolling upgrades at the ops summit... | 21:30 |
| shamail | sgordon, exactly.. but we had people not doing that so we started using -1 to identify those items so the cores could abandon them in the future | 21:30 |
| shamail | Your method is the right method | 21:30 |
| shamail | We will stop abusing -1 workflow :) | 21:30 |
| shamail | and use it properly | 21:30 |
| shamail | Please feel free to add -1 on the 253228 again, we won't abandon it. | 21:31 |
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| shamail | The other one (268207) does need to be abandoned (not necessarily because it has a -1 workflow but because it has superceded) | 21:31 |
| shamail | Thanks for bringing it up sgordon | 21:32 |
| cloudrancher | yes. KencJohnson helped me out there | 21:32 |
| shamail | Thanks for the clarification on the -1 reason kencjohnston | 21:32 |
| kencjohnston | shamail np | 21:32 |
| shamail | nateziemann, I think that is a good suggestion.. we can revisit in an upcoming topic on the agenda. | 21:33 |
| shamail | Any other items on this topic before we move on? | 21:33 |
| shamail | #topic Austin Talk Proposals | 21:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Austin Talk Proposals (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:33 | |
| nateziemann | it appears, at least in my company getting strong operations participation is easier at events then day-to-day. | 21:33 |
| shamail | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/austin_summit_product_wg | 21:33 |
| shamail | We started brainstorming on sessions that could be proposed by product working group members at the upcoming summit | 21:34 |
| shamail | The etherpad contains all of the ideas so far... | 21:34 |
| shamail | Item #1 is more of a FYI | 21:34 |
| shamail | since it is being submitted by the OpenStack UX team | 21:34 |
| shamail | Who submitted items 2,3, and 4? | 21:35 |
| shamail | (in the etherpad) | 21:35 |
| rockyg | nateziemann, ++ It's easier to schedule one-offs for ops folks then insert stuff into their firefighting/interrupt-driven daily work mode | 21:35 |
| shamail | Okay, I guess the people might not be here... | 21:35 |
| kencjohnston | I'm feeling like an idiot, what is BOF? | 21:36 |
| kencjohnston | BOF | 21:36 |
| shamail | Birds of a Feather | 21:36 |
| nateziemann | tweet tweet | 21:36 |
| hughhalf | Birds of Feather | 21:36 |
| shamail | It is a session that is meant to bring together people of similar interests | 21:36 |
| kencjohnston | ahh, gotcha | 21:36 |
| shamail | to discuss topics (not a presentation, but more brainstormy) | 21:36 |
| * hughhalf nods | 21:36 | |
| shamail | not a working session either though | 21:36 |
| MeganR | @kencjohnston: thank you for asking | 21:36 |
| hughhalf | Yeah guess it tends to be more informal as shamail points out | 21:37 |
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| rockyg | we might consider a talk on rolling upgrades if we get the info we need to move forward on that... | 21:37 |
| shamail | It basically is meant to be a spark... and if it takes, then usually a working session is the next step | 21:37 |
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| shamail | True rockyg | 21:37 |
| kencjohnston | So are we brainstorming ideas for Product WG related sessions at the broader summit? | 21:38 |
| shamail | that could be a part of "user story update" | 21:38 |
| kencjohnston | Or ideas for our PWG meetings? | 21:38 |
| shamail | kencjohnston, yes for the broader summit | 21:38 |
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| shamail | these would be talks that we would propose for various tracks | 21:38 |
| kencjohnston | got it, ok | 21:38 |
| shamail | The agenda for our own meeting is not related to this... | 21:38 |
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| shamail | Do the topics make sense? | 21:39 |
| shamail | If so, any volunteers to write the abstract and act as a lead for building the team/content? | 21:39 |
| kencjohnston | They do, just typing aload, I'd like a discussion around the real or perceived complexity problem for people investigating OpenStack. | 21:39 |
| shamail | I have added the roadmap session as item #5 | 21:39 |
| shamail | kencjohnston, can you expand on that? Is this about believing its "hard" without even trying it or the other way around (it's harder than it looks) | 21:40 |
| MarkBaker | kencjohnston, +1 on complexity problem - happy to help draft | 21:40 |
| kencjohnston | shamail I added some notes in the etherpad, but that potential users often shy away for a variety of reasons that aren't software/feature focused | 21:41 |
| shamail | kencjohnston, can you add yourself as the lead for item #6? | 21:41 |
| rockyg | ++ It's harder than most realize. Especially devs, since they usually use devstack | 21:41 |
| kencjohnston | like - I have to hire a team of openstack developers. I don't udnerstand the projects or governance. | 21:41 |
| shamail | MarkBaker also volunteered to help! It looks like 50%+ of your team is already established now. :-) | 21:41 |
| kencjohnston | I have to have a 24 hour ops team. | 21:41 |
| kencjohnston | perfect : thanks MarkBaker | 21:41 |
| shamail | thanks kencjohnston, that makes complete sense. | 21:41 |
| rockyg | I'll help... | 21:41 |
| shamail | good topic | 21:42 |
| shamail | Any takes for items #2, 3, or 4? | 21:42 |
| shamail | takers* | 21:42 |
| shamail | If not, i'll send out an email on the mailing list to see if we can identify who added them.... | 21:42 |
| nateziemann | it would be good to have a success story, and talk about navigating the complexity. vs just discussing the 10 ways Openstack is indeed complex. | 21:43 |
| rockyg | I think we can get Carol's help/lead on the state of... | 21:43 |
| kencjohnston | nateziemann agreed, I have some ideas there :) | 21:43 |
| rockyg | Maybe I can help on endusers? | 21:43 |
| shamail | #action shamail will send an email to mailing list to identify sponsors for Austin talk proposals. | 21:43 |
| MarkBaker | shamail, I am +1 on topic 4, let me know when you find out who proposed it | 21:43 |
| shamail | MarkBaker, will do | 21:44 |
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| shamail | great suggestion rockyg, especially since she started the dialog with Doug. | 21:44 |
| shamail | On a related note, I will be sending an email to ask for volunteers again for the roadmap sub-team | 21:45 |
| nateziemann | I'm definitely +1 on helping more substantially w/ the roadmap session this go aroudn. | 21:45 |
| shamail | We will probably have to do a lot of work around March. :) | 21:45 |
| shamail | Thanks nateziemann | 21:45 |
| shamail | Are we done with this topic? | 21:45 |
| thingee | Once we had a roadmap, it would be great to start creating specs for projects, or cross-project specs to start getting attention on PTLs | 21:45 |
| shamail | Agreed thingee, this is something we need to discuss at our upcoming mid-cycle | 21:46 |
| thingee | and start talking amongst the product working group to know who can provide resources | 21:46 |
| shamail | the "roadmap" as it stands today is only a read-out of the plans from the various project teams | 21:46 |
| nateziemann | I'd like to see the most developed user stories get some airtime in the roadmap for "N" this time. | 21:46 |
| shamail | it doesn't include information on our user stories themselves | 21:46 |
| thingee | ok, well anything *we* want to drive from user survey should be on the roadmap, no? | 21:46 |
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| shamail | thingee: +1 | 21:47 |
| shamail | Hopefully we can make the roadmap a read-out + some future topics of interest | 21:47 |
| thingee | some of that stuff projects aren't going to be aware of which goes back to http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/workflow/workflow.html | 21:47 |
| shamail | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/workflow/workflow.html | 21:47 |
| * thingee has an item for open discussion relating | 21:47 | |
| rockyg | Yeah. Rolling upgrades hopefully will make the roadmap | 21:48 |
| shamail | That's great... thingee, please share details about the open discussion once its scheduled. I'm certain some of us would love to participate | 21:48 |
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| thingee | I meant I have an item for open discussion in this meeting | 21:49 |
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| shamail | Ah, gotcha | 21:49 |
| shamail | let's get there then! :) | 21:49 |
| shamail | #topic Ops Summit Topic Proposals from PWG | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ops Summit Topic Proposals from PWG (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:49 | |
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| shamail | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MAN-ops-meetup | 21:49 |
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| shamail | I put this item on the agenda in case we want to add potential topics to the upcoming ops-summit | 21:50 |
| thingee | ok so the workflow document talks about cross-project spec liaisons, but that team doesn't exist yet. If you have been part of the cross-project meetings, you would know that group is being defined | 21:50 |
| shamail | I know Carol has already submitted some topics | 21:50 |
| thingee | http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/cross-project.html | 21:50 |
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| kencjohnston | On the MAN-ops-meetup, I added an item for OSIC Bug Collection, working with Tom Fifeld to get that officially on the agenda. | 21:51 |
| shamail | Please add items that you think might be beneficial (e.g. rolling upgrades, etc.) we can revisit next week... | 21:51 |
| shamail | awesome kencjohnston | 21:51 |
| thingee | so this project team guide doc defines the liaisons role. These are people once signed up, should be people the product working group works with for various projects | 21:51 |
| shamail | I'm moving on to opens for now, this topic was more to start the brainstorming | 21:51 |
| shamail | #topic Opens | 21:51 |
| thingee | in cross-project related specs | 21:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Opens (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:51 | |
| thingee | oh whoops | 21:52 |
| thingee | anyways there ya go | 21:52 |
| shamail | thingee, that makes sense | 21:52 |
| shamail | The product WG itself has CPLs assigned to various projects too | 21:52 |
| shamail | So it will most likely be the CPL from the Product WG working with the CPL from the project | 21:52 |
| shamail | While the user story owners are working with all the various CPLs from the Product WG | 21:52 |
| shamail | This lets us build a scalable model to discuss/implement user stories | 21:53 |
| kencjohnston | shamail I would still want the CPL from the PWG to be sitting with the project team in regular meetings | 21:53 |
| thingee | yes, but these people are technical in their specific project. You'll need them to make sense of whether something fits with their project based on user survey and to work with there team on putting something in our roadmap on their prioritiy list | 21:53 |
| kencjohnston | not just interfacing one to one with a project CPL | 21:53 |
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| shamail | I did see the email about cross-project spec liasons, do you have a link handy to your message Mike? I'd like to include it in the meeting minutes | 21:53 |
| thingee | The point is, I want to avoid the product working group working with PTLs if they don't want to be part of this effort. | 21:53 |
| thingee | or anyone for that matter | 21:53 |
| thingee | http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/cross-project.html | 21:54 |
| kencjohnston | thingee can you talk a bit more about that "want to avoid PWG working with PTLs" | 21:54 |
| nateziemann | kind of difficult to drive broad cross project user stories without the support of the PTLs at some level... | 21:54 |
| hughhalf | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/084136.html for thingee's message to the ML | 21:54 |
| thingee | kencjohnston: sure, so if a ptl doesn't have time to work on this effort, they're not the best person to reach out to | 21:54 |
| sgordon | i think i understand the intent | 21:55 |
| sgordon | which is to funnel everyone through one place | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | thingee agreed, so that is a concern about PTL bandwidth | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | which I get | 21:55 |
| sgordon | versus distracting the PTLs | 21:55 |
| thingee | because I think every working group is saying "oh we'll go to the ptl for this" | 21:55 |
| sgordon | who are already slammed | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | sgordon thingee understood and agreed | 21:55 |
| thingee | kencjohnston: yes and also not every ptl is up=to-date on cross-project initiatives. Which some of user stories touch on | 21:55 |
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| shamail | thingee, makes sense... We weren't planning on working exclusively with PTLs in the first place.. The goal of our CPLs was to be able to bring up items at the project meetings and get a volunteer identified from the project team to work with us | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | our intent was to have CPLs who participate in each individual team, not interface directly with the PTL specifically. | 21:55 |
| thingee | so with history of ptls being unreliable here, I'd like to have a designated group for this. It defaults to PTLs but they can delegate to another group | 21:56 |
| thingee | the cross project spec liaisons will be setup here eventually https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons | 21:56 |
| shamail | in this new scenario of cross-project specs, we would be working with xproj liaison to make our case to the project teanm | 21:56 |
| kencjohnston | thingee - I see, so instead of saying we are working with the Nova team and the Nova PTL is our point person, we should say I'm workign with teh Nova team and the Nova CPL is my point person. Correct? | 21:56 |
| shamail | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/084136.html | 21:57 |
| thingee | kencjohnston: sure, but you need to hold someone accountable to doing something in the group | 21:57 |
| thingee | saying you're going to talk to a group of people has no one accountable for what you asked | 21:57 |
| shamail | Our user story team would work with our CPL to Nova, who would then work with the cross-project liaison for Nova in this new workflow. Does that sound right? | 21:58 |
| kencjohnston | hmm thingee I think my mindset wasn't that we just ask for things and then they get assigned and happen. | 21:58 |
| thingee | so product working group liaisons and the CPL interaction can be seen here | 21:58 |
| shamail | The product WG CPL and cross-project liaison would both be attending the nova meetings but one will be the technical point of contact while the other can provide context on the story | 21:58 |
| * shamail looks at watch, 1 minute left | 21:59 | |
| thingee | shamail: yes | 21:59 |
| kencjohnston | We're almost out of time but I think it would be helpful to use real world examples instead of speaking in generalities of what cross projects might occur in the future. | 21:59 |
| shamail | thingee, I will make this an agenda item for next week. Will you be able to attend? | 21:59 |
| kencjohnston | I can take the action to take a stab at summarizing and sending around to the list? | 21:59 |
| shamail | that would be good too kencjohnston | 21:59 |
| kencjohnston | And then thingee you can provide feedback if I got it right? | 22:00 |
| thingee | shamail: unfortuantely no | 22:00 |
| shamail | ML discussion followed with an agenda item on the weekly meeting | 22:00 |
| kencjohnston | or aligned with your thought process | 22:00 |
| shamail | thingee, which Monday would be good for follow-up? | 22:00 |
| thingee | kencjohnston: take a look at http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/workflow/workflow.html | 22:00 |
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| thingee | it pretty much lays it out already | 22:00 |
| shamail | #action kencjohnston to summarize discussion on cross project liaisons and product WG | 22:00 |
| shamail | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jan 18 22:00:57 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-01-18-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-01-18-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-01-18-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
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| shamail | thingee, I'll follow up with you on email to decide when we can add this on the agenda (based on your availability) | 22:01 |
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| shamail | Thanks everyone! | 22:01 |
| thingee | shamail: just feb 1 is good | 22:02 |
| hughhalf | :) | 22:02 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: you got quite a bit of action items this week.. please let me know if you want me to help with any. :) | 22:02 |
| shamail | thanks thingee, i'll add it for that week | 22:02 |
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| thingee | shamail: just can't do next week | 22:02 |
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| shamail | Bye all. | 22:02 |
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| kencjohnston | bye shamail | 22:03 |
| kencjohnston | thanks | 22:03 |
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