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| ddieterly | #startmeeting freezer | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 5 14:00:39 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ddieterly. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'freezer' | 14:00 |
| ddieterly | attendance please | 14:01 |
| slashme | Hello ddieterly :) | 14:01 |
| ddieterly | o/ | 14:01 |
| EinstCrazy | Hello | 14:01 |
| ddieterly | hello ice cubes | 14:01 |
| szaher | Hello ddieterly | 14:01 |
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| slashme | Let's wait five minutes for the others | 14:02 |
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| ddieterly | sure | 14:02 |
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| ddieterly | while we are waiting, if you have an item for the agenda, please update it | 14:03 |
| ddieterly | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings | 14:04 |
| ddieterly | can we start? | 14:05 |
| slashme | Go ahead :) | 14:06 |
| ddieterly | ok, the agenda looks very slim | 14:06 |
| ddieterly | maybe we could get some highlights from the summit? | 14:06 |
| ddieterly | any important take aways? | 14:06 |
| ddieterly | i heard a lot of people interested in a comprehensive backup/restore solution | 14:07 |
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| ddieterly | i heard a lot about smaug for better or worse | 14:07 |
| ddieterly | did anything come out of the design meeting on friday? | 14:08 |
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| ddieterly | slashme are the notes available from the sessions on the web? | 14:08 |
| slashme | We have seen a lot of interest from people regarding all the subject we talked about: | 14:09 |
| slashme | - Backup/restore of OpenStack Infra (and as you said comprehensive solution) | 14:09 |
| slashme | - Backup/restore as a Service | 14:09 |
| slashme | - Disaster Recovery | 14:09 |
| slashme | - Better integration with deployment systems | 14:09 |
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| slashme | Notes from all the sessions are available here: | 14:09 |
| slashme | I'll clean that up and send a recap to the mailing list as soon as possible | 14:09 |
| slashme | OS Infra backup: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_austin_session_backup_os_infra | 14:10 |
| slashme | BaaS: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_austin_session_baas | 14:10 |
| slashme | The Disaster Recovery etherpad stayed empty: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_austin_session_disaster_recovery | 14:11 |
| slashme | Friday contributors meetup: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_austin_session_contributors_meetup | 14:11 |
| slashme | The last one contains notes about smaug, Ironic, ... | 14:12 |
| ddieterly | i'll take some time today and read those | 14:12 |
| ddieterly | sorry i had to leave early on friday | 14:12 |
| ddieterly | did the smaug guy finally yield the floor? | 14:12 |
| slashme | Overall, we have seen a large interest aroud freezer, which is a very good sign. | 14:12 |
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| slashme | Yes, He left just after you | 14:12 |
| ddieterly | great timing ;-) | 14:13 |
| slashme | Conclusion was: | 14:13 |
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| slashme | Let's arrange a specific meeting with some Freezer devs and some Smaug devs to discuss how integration of the tweo solutions could happen. | 14:14 |
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| ddieterly | did you get his name by any chance? | 14:14 |
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| ddieterly | what are your thoughts on how smaug relates to freezer? | 14:16 |
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| slashme | I gave him my card, so I expect an email in the next few days. | 14:16 |
| ddieterly | i guess i should do this | 14:17 |
| ddieterly | #topic austin summit recap | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "austin summit recap (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:17 | |
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| ddieterly | slashme any thoughts on smaug? | 14:18 |
| slashme | Well, as we tried to describe in the etherpad, Smaug is trying to achieve what we called "tenant backup". The ability to backup/restore OpenStack resources that don't live outside of OpenStack, that are only metadata (like neutron networks, Keystone users, ... ) | 14:19 |
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| ddieterly | do you think there is an opportunity to work with that project? | 14:19 |
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| slashme | When we thought about that in the past, we decided not to engage in doing that for now because it represent a big amount of work to map all the calls to all OpenStack api's | 14:20 |
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| slashme | We could either leverage smaug to backup this kind of data or provide a plugin so smaug can leverage freezer when doing classic data backups. | 14:21 |
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| ddieterly | ok, so i could see that project asking for functionality from freezer in the future | 14:22 |
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| ddieterly | slashme anything else from the summit you want to share? | 14:22 |
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| daemontool_ | o/ | 14:22 |
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| ddieterly | daemontool_ anything from the summit you want to share with the team? | 14:23 |
| szaher | slashme: Can we consider smaug as a engine for freezer ? | 14:23 |
| daemontool_ | yes | 14:23 |
| yangyapeng | :) | 14:23 |
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| daemontool_ | yes to ddieterly don-t know about smaug | 14:23 |
| slashme | szaher: Yes that's one of the possibilities | 14:23 |
| daemontool_ | but yes at first | 14:23 |
| daemontool_ | :) | 14:23 |
| daemontool_ | so | 14:23 |
| daemontool_ | couple of guys | 14:23 |
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| daemontool_ | requested to integrate with tripleo and ironic | 14:24 |
| daemontool_ | to do image based backup | 14:24 |
| daemontool_ | for distributions like rh | 14:24 |
| daemontool_ | I think is a great idea | 14:24 |
| daemontool_ | one othe thing is | 14:24 |
| daemontool_ | that we need to speed up the publication of the dr related code | 14:24 |
| daemontool_ | I-m creating the freezer-dr repo today | 14:25 |
| daemontool_ | s/-/\'/ :) | 14:25 |
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| daemontool_ | can I go on or is there any topic that is currently being dicussed_ | 14:26 |
| daemontool_ | ? | 14:26 |
| ddieterly | the topic is the summit | 14:26 |
| daemontool_ | ok | 14:26 |
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| ddieterly | we can add dr to the agenda | 14:26 |
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| ddieterly | there, done | 14:27 |
| daemontool_ | ty | 14:27 |
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| ddieterly | ok, want to move on to DR? | 14:27 |
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| ddieterly | anything else on the summit | 14:28 |
| ddieterly | everyone have a good time? | 14:28 |
| ddieterly | daemontool_ hope you used the party pass that i gave you well ;-) | 14:28 |
| daemontool_ | brilliant time | 14:28 |
| daemontool_ | ty | 14:28 |
| daemontool_ | I made it count ;) | 14:29 |
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| ddieterly | i knew if anyone could, it would be you | 14:29 |
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| ddieterly | #topic disaster recovery | 14:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "disaster recovery (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:29 | |
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| ddieterly | daemontool_ you have the floor | 14:29 |
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| ddieterly | some of the feedback on frescos blueprint from dan dyer was that there was a lot out of scope for a backup/restore solution | 14:30 |
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| ddieterly | i got that feedback on friday from 2 people in the contributors meeting before slashme arrived and the smaug discussion started | 14:31 |
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| ddieterly | daemontool_ you there? | 14:34 |
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| daemontool_ | ddieterly, yes | 14:36 |
| daemontool_ | sorry | 14:36 |
| daemontool_ | so we need to create the freezer-dr repo | 14:36 |
| daemontool_ | and upstream the code we have | 14:36 |
| daemontool_ | following up our previous mettings | 14:36 |
| daemontool_ | now, I understand we need to place the bp onto the freezer-specs repo | 14:36 |
| daemontool_ | but the specs repo | 14:36 |
| daemontool_ | is not ready yet | 14:37 |
| daemontool_ | ? | 14:37 |
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| slashme | I'll try to prepare it before EOW | 14:37 |
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| daemontool_ | ok ty | 14:37 |
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| ddieterly | anything else? | 14:38 |
| daemontool_ | that's all from me | 14:38 |
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| daemontool_ | anyway this stream is being mainly followed by Fresco, ddieterly | 14:38 |
| ddieterly | ok, ty | 14:39 |
| ddieterly | next topic? | 14:39 |
| szaher | daemontool_: are you going to submit a request to create the repo | 14:39 |
| daemontool_ | szaher, yes | 14:39 |
| daemontool_ | we need to do that sooner than later | 14:39 |
| daemontool_ | hopefully today | 14:39 |
| daemontool_ | or tomorrow | 14:39 |
| szaher | daemontool_: Good, ty | 14:39 |
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| daemontool_ | then upstream | 14:39 |
| daemontool_ | :( | 14:39 |
| daemontool_ | :) | 14:39 |
| ddieterly | #topic pending blueprints | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pending blueprints (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:40 | |
| ddieterly | i'm not sure which are the most active/pressing blueprints that people are working on | 14:41 |
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| ddieterly | daemontool_ do you have a bp for dedup? | 14:41 |
| slashme | ddieterly: I guess it is thoses about refactoring | 14:41 |
| slashme | dedup is not yet at the BP stage | 14:41 |
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| ddieterly | do we need a discussion around dedup? | 14:42 |
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| slashme | Not today. But we definity need to plan for one. | 14:42 |
| daemontool_ | I think there was some discussion at the midcycle meet up? | 14:42 |
| slashme | daemontool_: Yes | 14:42 |
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| slashme | But nothing good/detailled/valid enough to be transformed into a blueprint | 14:43 |
| daemontool_ | ok | 14:43 |
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| slashme | Plan is to start the engineering process during the next few weeks | 14:43 |
| ddieterly | what is driving dedup? is there someone asking for it or is it just nice to have? | 14:43 |
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| ddieterly | sorry for my ingorance | 14:44 |
| daemontool_ | ddieterly, there was a competitive analysis mentioned | 14:44 |
| slashme | So we can discuss the design at the next midcycle and start implementing it as a stretch goal for Newton | 14:44 |
| daemontool_ | ask to the ps guys they have more information | 14:44 |
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| szaher | I guess we can write pb for re-factoring and plug-able layers | 14:45 |
| ddieterly | #topic mid-cycle meetup | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:45 | |
| ddieterly | when/where is the mid-cycle meetup? | 14:45 |
| daemontool_ | July, Ibiza :( | 14:46 |
| daemontool_ | :) | 14:46 |
| slashme | Nothing is decided yet I think. | 14:46 |
| ddieterly | ok, where is ibiza? | 14:46 |
| slashme | daemontool_ ;) | 14:46 |
| slashme | Spainish island | 14:46 |
| ddieterly | so, roughly july, then? | 14:47 |
| daemontool_ | I don't know, was just an idea | 14:47 |
| ddieterly | i guess that would be 'mid-cycle' | 14:47 |
| daemontool_ | but nothing serious really | 14:48 |
| daemontool_ | what works bes for you | 14:48 |
| daemontool_ | best | 14:48 |
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| daemontool_ | good for me | 14:48 |
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| ddieterly | july is fine for me | 14:48 |
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| ddieterly | when do we need to decice? | 14:49 |
| daemontool_ | We can organize it in Ericsson offices if needed | 14:49 |
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| ddieterly | decide | 14:49 |
| ddieterly | the sooner the better | 14:49 |
| ddieterly | travel might be a problem for me | 14:49 |
| ddieterly | hpe is tightening the purse strings | 14:49 |
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| slashme | Same thing as last one, I guess, the best solution (cheapest overwall) will be to organize in Galway | 14:50 |
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| ddieterly | that's fine with me, i just need to get approval | 14:51 |
| ddieterly | i'll let management know that travel to galway in july is coming | 14:52 |
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| ddieterly | see what they say | 14:52 |
| ddieterly | i think you should all come to colorado | 14:52 |
| slashme | I'd love that :) :) :0 | 14:52 |
| ddieterly | (you know, marijuana is legal here) | 14:53 |
| ddieterly | if that is your thing | 14:53 |
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| ddieterly | ok, can we change topics? | 14:53 |
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| slashme | yes | 14:54 |
| ddieterly | btw, if i can improve on this chairman thing, please let me know | 14:54 |
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| slashme | Is there any topics left ? | 14:54 |
| ddieterly | communication skills are not really my strong suit ;-) | 14:54 |
| ddieterly | reviews | 14:54 |
| vannif_ | getting to colorado might be dangerous ... we could never make it back to Ireland ;) | 14:54 |
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| ddieterly | #topic pending reviews | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pending reviews (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:55 | |
| ddieterly | szaher i'll take a look at that review today and try out the testing loging | 14:55 |
| ddieterly | logic | 14:55 |
| slashme | Consitency check : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/300080 | 14:55 |
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| daemontool_ | vannif_, is alive!! :) | 14:55 |
| szaher | ddieterly: Thanks :) | 14:55 |
| ddieterly | szaher what are your concerns about it? | 14:56 |
| slashme | It also contains some supposed fix for our swift dsvm errors | 14:56 |
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| clsacramento | ddieterly: szaher: ty | 14:56 |
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| daemontool_ | slashme, side question, does the bug occure without using --incremental during restore with tar? | 14:56 |
| szaher | ddieterly: Just want to check if this is Ok and no problems with it for me it's working fine and I tested it | 14:56 |
| daemontool_ | did you had chance to see that? | 14:56 |
| szaher | clsacramento: You welcome :) | 14:56 |
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| ddieterly | szaher ok | 14:57 |
| slashme | daemontool_: Not really | 14:58 |
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| daemontool_ | ok | 14:58 |
| daemontool_ | I'm curious :) | 14:58 |
| ddieterly | slashme any ideas why that incremental restore thing is working on the 2nd try? | 14:58 |
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| slashme | I found a solution for one of the tar error (Directory not empty) not the other one (No such file or directory) | 14:59 |
| slashme | I'm still doing test to try to understand... | 14:59 |
| ddieterly | that is strange | 14:59 |
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| ddieterly | slashme you want to chair the meeting next week? | 14:59 |
| ddieterly | let's continue in the freezer room; out of time | 15:00 |
| ddieterly | ciao! | 15:00 |
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| slashme | ddieterly: thatnk you :) | 15:00 |
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| ddieterly | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 5 15:00:34 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-05-05-14.00.html | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-05-05-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-05-05-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 5 15:02:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| gouthamr | hello o/ | 15:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:02 |
| bswartz | hello all | 15:02 |
| tbarron | hi | 15:02 |
| ganso | hello | 15:02 |
| aovchinnikov | hi | 15:02 |
| jseiler__ | hi | 15:02 |
| dustins | \o | 15:02 |
| vponomaryov | hello | 15:02 |
| tpsilva | hello | 15:03 |
| markstur_ | hi | 15:03 |
| bswartz | sorry I'm late - was composing ML post | 15:03 |
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| xyang1 | hi | 15:03 |
| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:03 |
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| zhongjun_ | hi | 15:03 |
| rraja | hi | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | so the agenda is funny today | 15:03 |
| bswartz | we had a long list of topics for Austin which we simply ran out of time to cover | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | I've taken the items we didn't get to and put them into the meeting agenda | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | we don't get to all of them, but I hope to cover a few of them today, and eventually cover all of them | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | #topic Documentation update | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Documentation update (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:05 | |
| bswartz | dustins: go ahead | 15:05 |
| dustins | thanks, bswartz | 15:05 |
| dustins | So gouthamr and I have started going though the driver interface and tidying it up | 15:05 |
| dustins | And it sounds like we have a volunteer for looking at the errors and warnings for the in-tree docs | 15:06 |
| dustins | As well as for the API Reference reworking | 15:06 |
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| dustins | gouthamr is tackling the creation of the Docs topic branch in Gerrit for all of our efforts | 15:07 |
| bswartz | the API Ref rework should be largely mechanical though right? | 15:07 |
| dustins | And I'm going to have a gander at the CLI Reference when I get the chance | 15:07 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: mostly | 15:07 |
| dustins | Yes | 15:07 |
| bswartz | we've just converting the format and moving them, no rewriting the content | 15:07 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: yep | 15:07 |
| gouthamr | ofcourse, there are gaps.. share migration and replication APIs need documentation.. | 15:08 |
| dustins | we're keeping track of all of our efforts/volunteers/etc through the etherpad we showed at the Summit | 15:08 |
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| gouthamr | we'll adopt RST and then work on those gaps | 15:08 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: what happened to the replication API ref we wrote for mitaka? | 15:08 |
| gouthamr | #link #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-docs-improvement-newton | 15:08 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: was halfway through it, learning my way through docbooks and stuff, and then the docs team brought up the rework.. | 15:09 |
| bswartz | I see | 15:09 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: we'll get that in as part of the rework | 15:09 |
| dgonzalez | so i volunteered to do the api-ref stuff. Should i put my name somewhere in the etherpad? | 15:09 |
| bswartz | so that work is still TBD | 15:09 |
| gouthamr | dgonzalez: i did that for you :) | 15:09 |
| dustins | dgonzalez: I think we've got you in there :D | 15:09 |
| dgonzalez | gouthamr: a thanks :) | 15:09 |
| bswartz | dgonzalez: thanks for volunteering to help | 15:10 |
| gouthamr | yes, thank you dgonzalez | 15:10 |
| dgonzalez | no problem, glad to help :) | 15:10 |
| gouthamr | As you can see on the etherpad though... we're looking for more volunteers | 15:10 |
| gouthamr | So, please help out.. | 15:11 |
| gouthamr | we need to scrub through docs, find gaps and fill them in | 15:11 |
| dustins | There's a lot to do, and not a lot of time to do it | 15:11 |
| bswartz | dustins: what's driving the deadline here? | 15:12 |
| dustins | Newton :) | 15:12 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: Newton! :) | 15:12 |
| gouthamr | lol. this is a major factor for our project maturity stats.. we hope to catch up on those numbers in newton | 15:12 |
| bswartz | but specifically, the doc team has a plan to relocate the api refs within newton, correct? | 15:13 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: yes.. | 15:13 |
| bswartz | they could change their plans if they wanted to, or we could do something else less compliant if we wanted to | 15:13 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: not just the api-ref, but the install-guide as well | 15:13 |
| bswartz | okay | 15:13 |
| gouthamr | for those interested in maturity stats - https://www.openstack.org/software/project-navigator/ | 15:13 |
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| bswartz | clearly we want to follow the docs team's guidelines, but we should avoid letting that generate a huge pile of work | 15:14 |
| bswartz | I don't like the idea of rewriting docs which were already written | 15:14 |
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| gouthamr | bswartz: +1 no rewrites, mostly update, fill gaps | 15:14 |
| bswartz | anything else? | 15:14 |
| gouthamr | yes | 15:14 |
| dustins | I'm good | 15:14 |
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| * dustins passes the ball to gouthamr | 15:15 | |
| gouthamr | I would like to emphasize that configref has to be kept up-to-date | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | ah yes | 15:15 |
| gouthamr | and this is the responsibility of driver maintainers | 15:15 |
| bswartz | well the driver portion of the config ref has to be the responsibility of driver maintainers | 15:16 |
| dustins | We will help out with this, but ultimately it is the responsibility of the driver maintainers | 15:16 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: +1 | 15:16 |
| bswartz | I also want to see the "compatibility matrix" disappear from the devref and be replaced with appropriate information in the config ref | 15:16 |
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| bswartz | I think one person could do the initial transplant, but then the maintenance of that going forward would need to be handled by driver maintianers | 15:17 |
| bswartz | does anyone have an issue with that plan? | 15:17 |
| vponomaryov | not only driver maintainers | 15:18 |
| vponomaryov | we also have manila-wide options | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: yes that's what I was referring to above | 15:18 |
| bswartz | the manila options part of the config ref should be maintained by this team | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | okay I think we can move on... | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | I'm going to jump ahead because I don't understand this agenda item | 15:19 |
| bswartz | #topic BP Specs | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP Specs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:19 | |
| bswartz | tbarron: can you explain this a bit more? | 15:19 |
| tbarron | Now we have bp specs. We need to evolve a culture | 15:20 |
| tbarron | where they work effectively. I just | 15:20 |
| bswartz | tbarron: you mean the specs repo? | 15:20 |
| * gouthamr smiles away | 15:20 | |
| tbarron | yes | 15:20 |
| vponomaryov | why we cannot use wiki? | 15:20 |
| bswartz | okay so some updates about that | 15:20 |
| tbarron | I just wanted to call attention to that email about | 15:20 |
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| bswartz | the specs repo is created, but the skeleton isn't merged yet, so please don't add any specs yet | 15:21 |
| tbarron | how the perils some other projects have run into. | 15:21 |
| bswartz | the ML post I'm composing is about the unclear licensing for the specs repo | 15:21 |
| bswartz | but yes, we do need to discuss the specs repo and how it should be used | 15:21 |
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| tbarron | from my POV we don't need a long discussion on that aspect today. | 15:22 |
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| bswartz | so if people show up and write a spec without intending to write code, I will be very upset | 15:22 |
| tbarron | but that email was posted today and it seemed timely. | 15:22 |
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| bswartz | In can be very helpful to have problems in need of solutions described clearly in spec-format, but when you put it in the manila-specs repo, you're asking the core team to review your spec -- and we do that review under the assumption that an implementation will be forthcoming | 15:23 |
| bswartz | so if you wand to write specs and not implement them, please put them somewhere else | 15:24 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz; each spec has assignee | 15:24 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: so one writes spec, other develops | 15:24 |
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| bswartz | there are lots of ways the specs repo could end up going wrong -- I've outlined a few of them before | 15:24 |
| bswartz | and this ML post outlines some more of them | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: yes -- as long as the assignee will work on it in the release for which the spec is submitted, I think that's fine | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | thanks for the link tbarron | 15:26 |
| tbarron | np | 15:26 |
| bswartz | I like the swift suggestions for an "ideas" wiki where people who have ideas can propose them | 15:26 |
| bswartz | the specs repo is not an idea dumping bucket | 15:26 |
| tbarron | +1 | 15:26 |
| bswartz | okay is ameade around by any change? | 15:27 |
| bswartz | chance* | 15:27 |
| ameade | sorta | 15:27 |
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| ganso | bswartz: the gerrit for the specs repo may be | 15:27 |
| xyang1 | bswartz: did mike say wiki will go away? | 15:27 |
| ganso | bswartz: but once approved, the idea should be developed :) | 15:27 |
| * tbarron passes ameade some coffee | 15:27 | |
| bswartz | ameade: user messages? | 15:27 |
| ameade | for manila? yessir | 15:28 |
| bswartz | #topic User messages | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User messages (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:28 | |
| bswartz | we weren't able to cover this in austin | 15:28 |
| ameade | lets port over user messages from cinder | 15:28 |
| bswartz | ameade: how far along is that effort? | 15:28 |
| ameade | merged | 15:28 |
| bswartz | cool | 15:28 |
| vponomaryov | ameade: any link? | 15:29 |
| tbarron | ameade: +1 | 15:29 |
| ameade | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298052/ | 15:29 |
| bswartz | xyang1: who is mike? | 15:29 |
| ameade | devref change is most useful | 15:29 |
| xyang1 | bswartz: thingee | 15:29 |
| vponomaryov | ameade: ty | 15:29 |
| bswartz | I hope the wiki doesn't go away | 15:29 |
| bswartz | I didn't heard about that | 15:30 |
| ameade | i can port this today | 15:30 |
| ameade | if we are cool with taking the exact same changes | 15:30 |
| xyang1 | bswartz: alright I don't remember details, better not to spread rumors | 15:30 |
| ameade | then we can extrapolate into oslo soon | 15:30 |
| ameade | because glance is interested | 15:30 |
| bswartz | ameade: why not put it in oslo first and then import into manila? | 15:30 |
| bswartz | pull it into manila first seems like ultimately more work | 15:31 |
| vponomaryov | +1 | 15:31 |
| ameade | i can try to visualize how that will be | 15:31 |
| ameade | but the reason is because it's not obvious what will go into oslo | 15:31 |
| bswartz | well I can see this going into manila directly | 15:31 |
| bswartz | some changes will be needed in the port | 15:32 |
| bswartz | due to differences between cinder and manila | 15:32 |
| ameade | yeah should be straight forward | 15:32 |
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| ameade | and do we want it experimental? | 15:32 |
| ameade | cinder didnt have experimental | 15:32 |
| bswartz | that would be an interesting discussion | 15:32 |
| bswartz | is there a spec people can read? | 15:32 |
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| bswartz | because I could imagine this not being experimental | 15:33 |
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| ameade | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/273938/ | 15:33 |
| ameade | cinder spec | 15:33 |
| tbarron | it's tech debt IMO, not sure there's a point in making it experimental. | 15:33 |
| ameade | +1 | 15:34 |
| ameade | esp since it's concrete in cinder | 15:34 |
| bswartz | #link https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/cinder-specs/specs/newton/summarymessage.html | 15:34 |
| bswartz | ^ more readable link | 15:34 |
| ameade | +1 | 15:34 |
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| ameade | bit slow today, still out sick | 15:34 |
| ameade | darn conference colds | 15:34 |
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| bswartz | okay well if you're not worried about the potential-double-effort of porting this to manila, then porting it to oslo, then retrofitting manila to use oslo then let's go ahead and propose the feature | 15:35 |
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| ameade | it will give putting it in oslo more weight too | 15:36 |
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| bswartz | okay anything else to discuss on this? | 15:36 |
| bswartz | #topic experimental features in UI | 15:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "experimental features in UI (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:37 | |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: this was your topic | 15:37 |
| vponomaryov | ok | 15:37 |
| xyang1 | bswartz: sorry to side track. thingee said infra wants to move away from wiki due to spam. it will be moved to etherpad in next 6 months: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-infra-wiki-upgrades | 15:37 |
| bswartz | personally I think experimental features need GUI support for us to get the feedback/testing of the features | 15:38 |
| bswartz | xyang1: gah! I'm opposed | 15:38 |
| vponomaryov | it is general question: "do we want to support "experimental" APIs in Manila UI"? | 15:38 |
| tbarron | will they be "declared" as experimental in the UI | 15:38 |
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| tbarron | ? | 15:38 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: what kind of technical challenges will we face if we implement experimental features in the UI plugin? | 15:38 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: if it changes, we lose support | 15:39 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: manila Ui becomes broken | 15:39 |
| tbarron | and (I know this is anohter topic) can they be hidden if a cloud-operator wants that? | 15:39 |
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| bswartz | tbarron: I'm hoping we can add switches to turn them on/off | 15:39 |
| ganso | bswartz: +1 | 15:39 |
| bswartz | tbarron: yeah that would be my preference | 15:39 |
| vponomaryov | tbarron: it can be part of implementation - possibility to disable | 15:39 |
| tbarron | I think that's essential | 15:39 |
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| vponomaryov | but contract of experimental APIs "allow them to be changed" breaks Manila UI | 15:40 |
| vponomaryov | so, it is lottery if change APis ) | 15:40 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: wouldn't they need to be adjusted in manila-ui according to change? | 15:40 |
| bswartz | yes we reserve the right to break the UI's usage of experimental features | 15:41 |
| vponomaryov | manila Ui uses concrete APi versions | 15:41 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: ^ | 15:41 |
| bswartz | thus it's important to make those features disableable | 15:41 |
| markstur_ | then version mismatch would still be a problem (even with fixes) | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | the fix when you combine a UI version with a server version that's not compatible should be to disable the broken features | 15:42 |
| vponomaryov | I am leaning to not supporting experimental features in UI | 15:42 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: I think breaking manila-ui can be expected with experimental features, the switch on/off should avoid breaking the main API though | 15:42 |
| bswartz | ideally this will motivate us to make features non-experimental as quickly as possible | 15:42 |
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| vponomaryov | ganso: it will be bad user experience | 15:42 |
| bswartz | because we'll experience pain when we break things | 15:42 |
| bswartz | I still prefer UI breakage to not having a way to redesign something we're unhappy with | 15:43 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz; poll for add/skip it for UI? | 15:43 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: perhaps in addition to the on/off switch we implement a version check and automatically switch off if the version is not an expected value | 15:44 |
| bswartz | switch off the experimental UI feature | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | ^ that sounds like a nicer way to get around breakages | 15:44 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: for example, in case of share groups, CGs will just be removed | 15:44 |
| bswartz | thus users who wanted to have a UI for experimental features would be forced to ruin specific versions of manila-ui | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: but if i switch it on, i'll still have a terrible experience? | 15:45 |
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| markstur_ | in some cases experimental UI is only a prototype -- pulled from gerrit | 15:45 |
| markstur_ | ^ that's easy | 15:45 |
| vponomaryov | gouthamr: yes, you will need to live with it all your life )) | 15:45 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: it would be forced to off if the version doesn't match | 15:45 |
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| gouthamr | understood. +1 | 15:45 |
| bswartz | because we don't offer backwards compatibility for experimental features either | 15:46 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: it is not strictly related to versions | 15:46 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: we try hard to maintain them though.. as i have seen so far.. | 15:46 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: we break version-relation using experimental APIs | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | yes that's the whole point | 15:46 |
| bswartz | okay I think we have an idea of how to proceed here | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | the question will be how easily can we introduce manila-ui config switches for admins to enable/disable these features? | 15:47 |
| vponomaryov | easy | 15:47 |
| bswartz | the UI might end up with a bunch of if/then/else clauses to handle different feature combinations | 15:47 |
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| vponomaryov | but why do we want to add something that is going to be changed soon? | 15:47 |
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| bswartz | well remember when we implement an experimental feature, we HOPE that we won't need to change it | 15:48 |
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| vponomaryov | now CGs will be removed for sure | 15:48 |
| bswartz | and the reason we merge it into master instead of keeping it in a dev branch is because we want feedback from actual users | 15:48 |
| bswartz | in order to get feedback we need to give users a way to use the feature | 15:48 |
| bswartz | CGs is a good example of something we tried that didn't work out | 15:49 |
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| bswartz | we're glad CGs is experimental, but we hope that what happens with CGs is a rare occurence | 15:49 |
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| bswartz | okay I think we have time to cover one more topic | 15:50 |
| bswartz | #topic Share/snapshot size mismatch | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Share/snapshot size mismatch (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:50 | |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: you proposed this topic too | 15:51 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: yes, htere was bugreport | 15:51 |
| bswartz | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/manila/+bug/1468642 | 15:51 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1468642 in Manila "Share size is not consistent between share_snapshots table and shares " [Low,In progress] - Assigned to zhongjun (jun-zhongjun) | 15:51 |
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| vponomaryov | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/manila/+bug/1468642 | 15:51 |
| vponomaryov | so, we should decide what do we do with snapshow size when we resize share? | 15:52 |
| bswartz | I think the trick here is just to agree on the semantics we want to define for snapshot size | 15:52 |
| vponomaryov | source share for that snapshot | 15:52 |
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| bswartz | as we define snapshot semantics we also need to be clear about how to handle cases when there has been a resize since the snapshot was taken | 15:53 |
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| bswartz | for example, if I create share of 2GB, then take snapshot, then resize share to 4GB, then revert to snapshot -- what is the size of the snapshot? | 15:53 |
| bswartz | ERR | 15:53 |
| bswartz | what is the size of the share* | 15:53 |
| ganso | should be 2GB, IMO | 15:54 |
| ganso | this does not look like a bug to me o_O | 15:54 |
| bswartz | as long as we all agree, there is no problem | 15:54 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz, ganso: you propose to revert share size too? | 15:54 |
| vponomaryov | reverting share to snapshot? | 15:54 |
| bswartz | this implies that we need to store the share size with every snapshot -- do we currently do that? | 15:54 |
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| ganso | vponomaryov: yes, should revert to exact state | 15:54 |
| ganso | bswartz, vponomaryov: but even out of "revert to snapshot" context, does not seem like a bug | 15:55 |
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| vponomaryov | ganso: if I am able to shrink share, then it is good experience to shrink existing snapshots too | 15:55 |
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| ganso | bswartz: I am not sure if currently the snapshot has its own size or if it derives from Share model | 15:56 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: what if some of the snapshots contain more data than the share currently does? | 15:56 |
| ganso | vponomaryov: why? | 15:56 |
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| vponomaryov | oh, right | 15:56 |
| fitodua18 | l | 15:56 |
| bswartz | ganso: https://github.com/openstack/manila/blob/master/manila/db/migrations/alembic/versions/162a3e673105_manila_init.py#L230 | 15:56 |
| tpsilva | ganso: it has | 15:56 |
| vponomaryov | then it is really ok to not change snapshot size | 15:57 |
| ganso | tpsilva: yup | 15:57 |
| tpsilva | I think that's the reason that column exists... to store the size of the share in the moment the snapshot was taken | 15:57 |
| bswartz | okay so I get the feeling there's no bug here | 15:57 |
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| bswartz | we just need to make sure that when we revert, we also revert the size | 15:57 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: better refer to current models, not migrations | 15:57 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: it can be changed with some other migration | 15:58 |
| bswartz | sorry | 15:58 |
| ganso | I saw the model, it has snapshot.size | 15:58 |
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| * bswartz was lazy trying to find link quickly | 15:58 | |
| bswartz | okay | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:58 | |
| bswartz | any last things? | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | I will carry over remaining agenda items to next week | 15:58 |
| vponomaryov | so, we agreed that we do not change snapshot size and when we revert share to snapshot we revert share size to snapshot's? | 15:58 |
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| zhongjun_ | I have one. | 15:59 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: yes I agree, and I think ganso does | 15:59 |
| bswartz | zhongjun_: just 1 minute! | 15:59 |
| tbarron | I think we have to use the old size (snapshot's size) b/c current size might be smaller and the snapshot data might not fit. | 15:59 |
| zhongjun_ | Does we need to fix the capabilities_and_extra_specs.rst doc about driver can only report one provision(thin or think)in a pool? | 15:59 |
| tbarron | we may have deleted data since then | 15:59 |
| tbarron | and shrunk the share | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: driver can report both | 15:59 |
| bswartz | zhongjun_: I think we covered that case in the doc | 16:00 |
| zhongjun_ | Because the capability list has been supported, and driver also implement report the capabilities:"'thin_provisioning': [True, False]". | 16:00 |
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| gouthamr | zhongjun_: we have capability lists in manila | 16:00 |
| zhongjun_ | yes | 16:00 |
| bswartz | drivers can report [True] [False] or [True, False] | 16:00 |
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| vponomaryov | zhongjun_: your case is "both" | 16:00 |
| zhongjun_ | change this word "If an array can technically support both thin and thick provisioning in a pool, | 16:00 |
| zhongjun_ | the driver still needs to programmatically determine which to use. ". | 16:00 |
| zhongjun_ | in doc | 16:00 |
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| bswartz | you use the value from the share type, when creating the new share | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: we need to improve that doc | 16:00 |
| bswartz | share types cannot have both | 16:00 |
| bswartz | okay we're past time | 16:01 |
| bswartz | thanks all | 16:01 |
| gouthamr | tc! | 16:01 |
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| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: it can, when not set | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 5 16:01:15 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-05-05-15.02.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-05-05-15.02.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-05-05-15.02.log.html | 16:01 |
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| lhinds | hello SEC peeps. | 16:02 |
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| lhinds | shucks, hour early | 16:03 |
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| tmcpeak | o/ | 17:00 |
| elmiko | #startmeeting security | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 5 17:00:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is elmiko. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| browne | o/ | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:00 |
| michaelxin | o/ | 17:00 |
| elmiko | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 17:00 |
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| elmiko | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 17:00 |
| elmiko | hi | 17:01 |
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| tmcpeak | yo | 17:01 |
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| elmiko | no meeting? | 17:01 |
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| tmcpeak | why not? | 17:01 |
| elmiko | no, i thought you had a conflict with *this* meeting | 17:01 |
| tmcpeak | oh, yeah I dropped. It sucked | 17:01 |
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| michaelxin | yes or no? | 17:01 |
| elmiko | yes, this meeting is on! | 17:02 |
| Daviey | meeting? | 17:02 |
| michaelxin | haha | 17:02 |
| tkelsey | hi all | 17:02 |
| michaelxin | elmiko: you are the boss | 17:02 |
| elmiko | let's fix that | 17:02 |
| michaelxin | tkelsey: Why not summit this time? | 17:02 |
| elmiko | #chair tmcpeak | 17:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: elmiko tmcpeak | 17:02 |
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| elmiko | #topic summit recap | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit recap (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:02 | |
| lhinds | hi all | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | hey lhinds | 17:02 |
| tkelsey | michaelxin: couldn't make it this time :-( | 17:02 |
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| michaelxin | lhinds: hi | 17:02 |
| tkelsey | missed all you folks :( | 17:03 |
| michaelxin | tkelsey: we missed you | 17:03 |
| elmiko | missed you too tkelsey ! | 17:03 |
| elmiko | bandit hackfest wasn't the same | 17:03 |
| browne | true dat | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | virtual hugs tkelsey | 17:03 |
| elmiko | so, quick summit recap | 17:03 |
| tkelsey | haha, you mean no one decided to change-all0th-things | 17:03 |
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| elmiko | lol | 17:03 |
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| elmiko | we had some really nice sessions, got the kolla TA underway, had some bandit hacking, BYOK sessions, and even a sec-doc session! | 17:04 |
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| tmcpeak | +1 | 17:04 |
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| tkelsey | nice :) | 17:04 |
| michaelxin | did we do the TM on Friday? | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | michaelxin: yeah part of it | 17:04 |
| elmiko | any highlights from summit that folks want to mention? | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | the threat modeling was interesting | 17:05 |
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| tmcpeak | curious about the perspective of others | 17:05 |
| michaelxin | I did not find the room | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | working with a project like Kolla on our first rev is really useful | 17:05 |
| elmiko | i missed that one | 17:05 |
| nsun1 | do we have a new PDF for sec doc? | 17:05 |
| sicarie | I'd be interested if any kolla folk are here and what they thought | 17:05 |
| sicarie | nsun1 - we do not | 17:05 |
| elmiko | nsun1: no, not yet. we are still working on a solution | 17:05 |
| michaelxin | sec docs is cool | 17:05 |
| michaelxin | Good to know that people are really using our security notes | 17:05 |
| sicarie | There is an issue building pdf's with the way we have RST guides set up. My understanding is there is no demand | 17:05 |
| elmiko | +1 | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | so one issue with threat modeling is we didn't get it done | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | we definitely need more time | 17:06 |
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| tmcpeak | I think we ended up with an hour and half to actually do the work and needed more | 17:06 |
| elmiko | good note | 17:06 |
| michaelxin | Schedule it on last day is not a good idea. | 17:06 |
| elmiko | #info the kolla threat analysis/modeling could have used more time | 17:06 |
| tmcpeak | I'd say we need at least 3 hours of actual work, once everybody is on board with threat modeling and knows why we're doing it | 17:06 |
| sicarie | I have a few minor nits as well that I already sent to hyakuhei and dg__ | 17:06 |
| nsun1 | where are the videos for sec sessions of Austin summit? | 17:07 |
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| sicarie | Centralizing the docs - especially diagrams - will help | 17:07 |
| tmcpeak | yeah and having them ahead of time too | 17:07 |
| sicarie | And having a well-described walkthrough and levelsetting script will also help | 17:07 |
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| tmcpeak | sicarie: +1 | 17:07 |
| elmiko | nsun1: we don't have them collected, but you should be able to find them here https://www.openstack.org/videos/ | 17:07 |
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| tmcpeak | extra +1 for using the term "levelsetting" | 17:07 |
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| sicarie | We noticed that the kolla team was very willing to do each component, but once one was done they were not clear on where to go next | 17:08 |
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| sicarie | tmcpeak: just working on my 'thought leader' vocabulary | 17:08 |
| Daviey | hah | 17:09 |
| sicarie | one day i hope to be able to talk forever and say absolutely nothing | 17:09 |
| elmiko | haha | 17:09 |
| tmcpeak | Kolla is also a bit of a special case. A lot of their solution is based on what we'd consider third party dependencies like containers, ansible, etc | 17:09 |
| Daviey | well very little of it is native kolla aiui | 17:09 |
| elmiko | tmcpeak: and kolla doesn't expose a service controller | 17:09 |
| tmcpeak | right | 17:10 |
| elmiko | it's very different from what i would imagine of most TAs in openstack | 17:10 |
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| elmiko | so, it sounds like we have *loads* of good ideas to add onto dg_'s TA review | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | with kolla we ended up modeling "deployment of a general service in a container" with Keystone I believe, and then documented "snowflakes" or places where the security model diverges from the simple case | 17:10 |
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| michaelxin | tmcpeak: is this captured somewhere like etherpad? | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | yeah the kolla etherpad, one sec | 17:11 |
| elmiko | any other summit related topics to discuss, or should we roll into the regular agenda? | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-newton-summit-threat-analysis | 17:12 |
| elmiko | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-newton-summit-threat-analysis | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | we are also full steam on getting projects involved with Bandit | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | but we can discuss during Bandit | 17:12 |
| elmiko | ohyea, good point tmcpeak | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | thanks elmiko | 17:12 |
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| elmiko | #topic anchor | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "anchor (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:12 | |
| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/anchor+status:open,n,z | 17:12 |
| michaelxin | We might want to schedule a meetup (lunch/dinner) for security. | 17:12 |
| michaelxin | not on last day | 17:12 |
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| tmcpeak | michaelxin: yeah agreed | 17:13 |
| elmiko | tkelsey: i think you are the only anchor rep here, anything to say? | 17:13 |
| elmiko | michaelxin: +1 | 17:13 |
| tkelsey | dg_ is on his way | 17:13 |
| elmiko | ooh nice, we'll swing back then | 17:13 |
| tkelsey | 4mins away, can we postpone the achor section for a bit please | 17:13 |
| elmiko | #topic bandit | 17:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bandit (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:13 | |
| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/bandit+status:open,n,z | 17:13 |
| elmiko | tkelsey, tmcpeak, browne | 17:13 |
| elmiko | what's up =) | 17:14 |
| tmcpeak | so one of the things we really need to do is get projects involved | 17:14 |
| tkelsey | so bandit gate has been added to castellan (or is about to be) | 17:14 |
| tkelsey | I think thats all on my radar actually | 17:14 |
| elmiko | added to python-openstackclient as well | 17:14 |
| tkelsey | oh nice :) | 17:14 |
| tmcpeak | at the summit a few of us took an individual project, ran Bandit with a suggested rule set, filed appropriate bugs, added appropriate nosecs, and then proposed the change to actually add the Bandit gate | 17:14 |
| elmiko | and part of their pep8 gate | 17:14 |
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| browne | yep, i need to get back to bandit evangelism | 17:14 |
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| tmcpeak | this is a huge push for larger projects though | 17:14 |
| tmcpeak | we were discussing a few options | 17:14 |
| michaelxin | Will continue what's left | 17:15 |
| sicarie | tkelsey: do you have a link for either merges? | 17:15 |
| elmiko | tmcpeak: rather than adding nosec's for the initial though, i thought we should just use excluded tests? | 17:15 |
| sicarie | castellan or python-openstackclient? | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | like exclude all failing tests initially in the gate | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | yeah | 17:15 |
| elmiko | ack | 17:15 |
| browne | sicarie: the summit etherpad had a list of priority projects | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | elmiko: no, not nosec for that. Adding nosec for places they should actually be used | 17:15 |
| elmiko | ahh, gotcha | 17:15 |
| tkelsey | sicarie: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/310917/ | 17:15 |
| sicarie | browne: thanks - any thought to making a blog post on "here's how you add bandit to your project"? | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | I did one for Kolla, there are a few places for things like jinja2 templating that I looked at the code and found it's not an issue, so added the proper nosec for them | 17:15 |
| sicarie | thx | 17:15 |
| elmiko | sicarie++ | 17:16 |
| tkelsey | sicarie: +1 | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | yeah that's a good idea | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | I'm actually happy to write that | 17:16 |
| browne | sicarie: we kinda talked about a template in that meeting. but agree we need that | 17:16 |
| elmiko | #action tmcpeak write blog post about adding bandit to your project | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | elmiko: +1 | 17:16 |
| browne | ha, good for the security blog | 17:16 |
| elmiko | definitely | 17:16 |
| elmiko | any other bandit stuff? | 17:17 |
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| tkelsey | nothing from me for the time being | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | think that's it | 17:17 |
| elmiko | #topic syntribos | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "syntribos (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:17 | |
| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/syntribos,n,z | 17:17 |
| elmiko | mdong, michaelxin you're up! | 17:17 |
| michaelxin | Our current focus is on improving existing security tests. | 17:18 |
| michaelxin | mdong: and ccneil are leading the efforts. | 17:18 |
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| michaelxin | There are a couple of them finished with CRs | 17:19 |
| michaelxin | Oh, please welcome vinaypotluri to the team | 17:19 |
| michaelxin | he is from Intel | 17:19 |
| tmcpeak | hi vinaypotluri, brief intro? | 17:19 |
| vinaypotluri | thank you :) | 17:19 |
| tkelsey | welcome vinaypotluri :) | 17:19 |
| browne | welcome vinaypotluri | 17:19 |
| michaelxin | Now, we have four people working on this project: two from Intel and two from Rackspace. | 17:19 |
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| elmiko | nice | 17:20 |
| vinaypotluri | Im a new college grad started working with intel on openstack security. | 17:20 |
| elmiko | cool, welcome =) | 17:20 |
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| vinaypotluri | I'm a novice in security | 17:20 |
| dg___ | o/ sorry I'm late guys | 17:20 |
| michaelxin | They just finished their training | 17:20 |
| elmiko | dg___: no worries, we're gonna circle back around to anchor | 17:21 |
| michaelxin | Started working on the project today | 17:21 |
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| tmcpeak | awesome | 17:21 |
| michaelxin | mdong: ccneil: Anything else to add on? | 17:21 |
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| mdong | oh, rahulunair has been leading the efforts also to remove parts of opencafe from the project | 17:21 |
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| mdong | and ccneill has started writing unittests for syntribos | 17:22 |
| elmiko | great, thanks | 17:22 |
| elmiko | #topic anchor | 17:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "anchor (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:22 | |
| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/anchor+status:open,n,z | 17:22 |
| elmiko | dg___: you're up! | 17:22 |
| dg___ | Hey everybody | 17:22 |
| dg___ | so anchor, we had a talk on this in the PKI session at the summit, very positive sesh. I'll send out a summary to -dev at some point soon | 17:23 |
| Daviey | +1 | 17:23 |
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| dg___ | tldr: we are aiming to integrate anchor into devstack and come up with a 'TLS by default' demo | 17:23 |
| tmcpeak | that would be very cool | 17:24 |
| Daviey | dg___: Have you tested my devstack plugin? | 17:24 |
| elmiko | interesting | 17:24 |
| dg___ | this is building on the work Daviey did last year, which has been languishing in my queue for far too long | 17:24 |
| dg___ | Daviey - not yet | 17:24 |
| Daviey | meh, only 8 months | 17:24 |
| dg___ | soon :) | 17:24 |
| elmiko | lol | 17:24 |
| Daviey | babies are cooked quicker than reviews happen | 17:24 |
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| tmcpeak | truth | 17:24 |
| dg___ | ok, so we suck, sorry | 17:25 |
| dg___ | will aim to do better in future | 17:25 |
| dg___ | however, thats not the way we really sucked today - a user internally mailed me saying 'the wiki page says this is frozen and it doesnt work' | 17:25 |
| elmiko | whoa | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | lolwut | 17:26 |
| dg___ | I pushed through a patch to the config today to unbreak anchor, so the example in the readme works, stan is going to look at it soon to fix the issue | 17:26 |
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| dg___ | but they have a point on the wiki, its very out of date | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | any idea on the cause? | 17:26 |
| dg___ | either a broken example or a broken validator | 17:26 |
| dg___ | anyway, anchor now works if you clone it from github, not sure on pypi | 17:27 |
| dg___ | and we'll fix the wiki soon | 17:27 |
| dg___ | i think thats all the anchor comedy for one week. todo: suck less | 17:27 |
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| elmiko | #action dg___ make anchor suck less | 17:27 |
| elmiko | ;P | 17:27 |
| dg___ | ty | 17:27 |
| elmiko | haha | 17:27 |
| tmcpeak | unsuck it | 17:28 |
| elmiko | #topic OSSN | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:28 | |
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| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/security-doc,n,z | 17:28 |
| tmcpeak | we had part of a session on this too | 17:28 |
| elmiko | oh nice, quick recap? | 17:28 |
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| tmcpeak | there were a fair amount of participants that aren't involved in OSSP | 17:28 |
| lhinds | Should I do rate limit update here, or during the docs topic? | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | discussion around how to make it into a more standard format so it can be consumed with certain industry standard tools | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: update would be great | 17:29 |
| lhinds | sure, will let you fin the recap :) | 17:29 |
| elmiko | we had some cross over in the sec-doc session with ossns as well | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | I was hoping to get more insight into how people are currently using OSSN and how we can make them uses it more, but didn't get much from that | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | obviously the parseable thing would be cool but we aren't there and don't have enough bandwidth for it now | 17:30 |
| elmiko | great idea from the doc session was to incorporate links to the notes into the guide | 17:30 |
| tmcpeak | +1 | 17:30 |
| dg___ | tmcpeak one of the things that came out of the docs session was we needed closer linkups to operators, to make sure they know the OSSNs exist | 17:30 |
| lhinds | oh, btw #link https://github.com/OpenSCAP/scap-security-guide/tree/master/OpenStack/RHEL-OSP/7/input/oval | 17:30 |
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| tmcpeak | ahh cool, how should we make that happen? | 17:31 |
| lhinds | you will recognize some of those | 17:31 |
| michaelxin | ＋1 | 17:31 |
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| dg___ | good work lhinds | 17:31 |
| elmiko | lhinds++ | 17:31 |
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| dg___ | tmcpeak tbd | 17:31 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds this is legit | 17:32 |
| lhinds | it scan then be run under the OpenSCAP tool | 17:32 |
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| elmiko | very cool | 17:32 |
| lhinds | we do something like this in the opnfv under functional testing, it deploys the scanner, runs, pulls down a nice html report, and then cleans env | 17:33 |
| lhinds | happy to share with anyone if its useful | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | yeah this looks very useful | 17:33 |
| lhinds | also other dists can be covered, so its not eclusive RH stuff | 17:33 |
| lhinds | s/eclusive/exclusive | 17:33 |
| elmiko | nice, maybe worthy of a blog post? | 17:34 |
| elmiko | would be great to raise visibility | 17:34 |
| lhinds | yeah, sure..good idea | 17:34 |
| tmcpeak | +1 | 17:34 |
| sicarie | +1 | 17:34 |
| lhinds | can I has hashtag actions ? | 17:34 |
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| michaelxin | ＋1 | 17:34 |
| lhinds | #action lhinds openscap blog | 17:34 |
| elmiko | lhinds: if you haven't seen it, look at https://github.com/openstack-security/openstack-security.github.io | 17:34 |
| lhinds | not sure if need chair | 17:34 |
| lhinds | thanks elmiko , will clone | 17:35 |
| elmiko | #action lhinds make post about openscap on security blog | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | #action lhinds openscap blog | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | lol, wonderful | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | all the actions | 17:35 |
| lhinds | double action | 17:35 |
| elmiko | hehe, not sure how many actions lhinds is signed up for now | 17:35 |
| elmiko | lhinds: yea, just make a pr against that repo, we'll get to it | 17:35 |
| lhinds | cool | 17:35 |
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| lhinds | rate limiting.. | 17:36 |
| elmiko | shoot | 17:36 |
| lhinds | so I just wanted to check, the plan is to do the OSSN, but also a section in the security guide. | 17:36 |
| elmiko | i want to say yes | 17:36 |
| lhinds | I think it makes sense to push them at the same time, I can do this I expect over the weekend. | 17:36 |
| sicarie | Rate limiting is missing from the scguide | 17:36 |
| elmiko | and also a deep topic | 17:37 |
| sicarie | It's so deployment-specific I have avoided it | 17:37 |
| elmiko | yea | 17:37 |
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| sicarie | I don't know how to give good advice for a generalized approach | 17:37 |
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| elmiko | +1 | 17:37 |
| lhinds | I also researched it and with help of the rackers on openrepose, I got it to rate limit the token revocation attacks | 17:37 |
| sicarie | but i would totally love someone with more knowledge than me taking that on | 17:37 |
| tmcpeak | "you should always strive to limit the rates" | 17:37 |
| sicarie | lhinds: awesome, I'd love to see a review on that! | 17:37 |
| ccneill | so is the recommendation to use repose? | 17:37 |
| lhinds | so I can put a guides for that particular weak point. | 17:37 |
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| ccneill | or are there other options | 17:37 |
| elmiko | i would say, lets get the OSSN out, and not necessarily link to the sec-guide work. but we should try to get them out relatively close together | 17:38 |
| ccneill | I think repose is great, but it can get pretty involved | 17:38 |
| dg___ | a section for the guide would be really good | 17:38 |
| lhinds | I think it will need keystone core to look at it as well, it only blocks DELETE , not GET, POST etc. | 17:38 |
| michaelxin | ccneill: repose might be a tough sell | 17:38 |
| michaelxin | There are many other options | 17:38 |
| ccneill | right. it being Java and all.. | 17:38 |
| elmiko | yea, i just don't want to see the OSSN get hung up waiting for the sec-guide part | 17:38 |
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| sicarie | +1 | 17:38 |
| lhinds | if they hit the api with more then x a minute, they get blocked for a minute | 17:38 |
| lhinds | elmiko, I can have them both done early next week | 17:39 |
| elmiko | the issues that are coming up now point to exactly why we should hash this out on the sec-guide review | 17:39 |
| elmiko | lhinds: excellent! | 17:39 |
| lhinds | I guess with reviews, it might two and fro a bit. | 17:39 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: great work on all this, thanks for taking it on | 17:39 |
| lhinds | the other thing I wanted to check out... | 17:39 |
| lhinds | should I provide guidance for all projects?....glance, neutron etc? | 17:40 |
| lhinds | or only OSSN'ed stuff (the other was noVNC that I found?) | 17:40 |
| elmiko | was the bug scoped to a single project? | 17:40 |
| lhinds | elmiko, keystone | 17:40 |
| elmiko | we should probably stick with that scoping, for now | 17:40 |
| lhinds | but there is one on noVNC as well | 17:40 |
| elmiko | hmm, if we can hit both with the same ossn i /think/ that is ok. but we should dbl check with hyakuhei | 17:41 |
| elmiko | i'd say, go for both in the ossn, and we can fix in review | 17:41 |
| elmiko | if necessary | 17:41 |
| lhinds | sure, well I keep keep the guide section on keystone, and do a general overview and point them to the repose docs which are good. | 17:41 |
| elmiko | +1 | 17:42 |
| lhinds | if demand is there, we can then expound further | 17:42 |
| lhinds | ok..that's it | 17:42 |
| elmiko | anything else on OSSNs? | 17:42 |
| elmiko | #topic publicity | 17:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "publicity (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:42 | |
| elmiko | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-raising-profile | 17:42 |
| elmiko | tmcpeak: anything to discuss here? | 17:42 |
| tmcpeak | nah, don't think so | 17:42 |
| elmiko | that was easy | 17:43 |
| tmcpeak | seems like there was a lot of good attendance at the summit | 17:43 |
| elmiko | excellent! | 17:43 |
| tmcpeak | people are interested at least in a cursory way | 17:43 |
| elmiko | the publicity is working =) | 17:43 |
| tmcpeak | getting commitment to contribute is different though | 17:43 |
| elmiko | always ;) | 17:43 |
| sicarie | I was toying with submitting something to http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linux-security-summit | 17:43 |
| elmiko | nice | 17:44 |
| tmcpeak | that'd be cool | 17:44 |
| sicarie | however even if i did, I'd be unable to go | 17:44 |
| tmcpeak | if Vancouver is above your pay grade, surely Toronto is too? ;) | 17:44 |
| elmiko | doh | 17:44 |
| dg___ | sicarie submit it and see what happens | 17:45 |
| sicarie | that hurts, tmcpeak :) | 17:45 |
| tmcpeak | :P | 17:45 |
| elmiko | speaking of hurt | 17:45 |
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| elmiko | #topic docs | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:45 | |
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| elmiko | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/security-doc,n,z | 17:45 |
| tmcpeak | lol | 17:46 |
| elmiko | so.... | 17:46 |
| tmcpeak | great transition elmiko | 17:46 |
| sicarie | So we had a really good design sesh at Austin | 17:46 |
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| elmiko | +1 | 17:46 |
| sicarie | We added a doc core to help with reviews | 17:46 |
| elmiko | woot! | 17:46 |
| sicarie | SO we have 4 now that can do docs-specs review | 17:46 |
| michaelxin | +1 | 17:46 |
| elmiko | i missed that part, who did we add? | 17:46 |
| sicarie | Shilla Saebi | 17:46 |
| elmiko | excellent! | 17:46 |
| sicarie | I hope I spelled that right | 17:46 |
| sicarie | Yep, she's very good | 17:47 |
| elmiko | some great suggestions came out of that session too | 17:47 |
| sicarie | +1 | 17:47 |
| elmiko | OSSN links into sec-guide | 17:47 |
| elmiko | more concrete examples, when possible | 17:47 |
| sicarie | One of the unfortunate aspects is that the last order of books (based off the pdf) was just a few in April of 2015 | 17:47 |
| elmiko | ouch | 17:48 |
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| sicarie | And with the knowledge that none of the other docs have a pdf | 17:48 |
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| sicarie | We decided to shelve that idea | 17:48 |
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| sicarie | Unless there's great demand | 17:48 |
| elmiko | the pdf idea? | 17:48 |
| sicarie | If there is, please let me know | 17:48 |
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| sicarie | yeah | 17:48 |
| elmiko | ahh, too bad | 17:48 |
| sicarie | Agreed | 17:48 |
| elmiko | but understandable | 17:48 |
| sicarie | I thought it was an asset, even if was versioned | 17:48 |
| sicarie | The other thing is that I spoke with the Neutron docs lead | 17:48 |
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| sicarie | And Edgar is going to get a few reviews on the Neutron chapter, which is the one I was most concerned about | 17:49 |
| elmiko | awesome | 17:49 |
| sicarie | SO I'm going to start pinging him with annoying regularity next week :) | 17:49 |
| elmiko | haha | 17:49 |
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| michaelxin | we should publish the guide as books and give them freely on next summit! :-) | 17:49 |
| elmiko | that would be nuts! | 17:49 |
| michaelxin | if we found sponsors | 17:49 |
| michaelxin | :-( | 17:49 |
| sicarie | michaelxin: we need a pdf version to be able to do that! | 17:49 |
| elmiko | no no, nuts in a good way =) | 17:49 |
| michaelxin | elmiko: haha | 17:50 |
| sicarie | apparently the secguide was one of the best selling versions, but there's no demand for it anymore - probably due to the changes | 17:50 |
| elmiko | ;) | 17:50 |
| elmiko | yea, who knows how much demand there would be if we had the pipeline running again and could produce regular updagtes | 17:50 |
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| sicarie | that's all I have - I'll let elmiko wrap up docs | 17:50 |
| sicarie | true | 17:50 |
| elmiko | not much more from me, but making another pdf would be cool | 17:50 |
| sicarie | agreed - i'd really like to :) | 17:51 |
| elmiko | #topic blog | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blog (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:51 | |
| elmiko | #link https://github.com/openstack-security/openstack-security.github.io | 17:51 |
| elmiko | no hyakuhei, tmcpeak any updates? | 17:51 |
| tmcpeak | seems like we've got a few new post ideas from this meeting | 17:51 |
| tmcpeak | but otherwise no | 17:51 |
| elmiko | yup, good that it keeps chugging away =) | 17:51 |
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| elmiko | #topic threat analysis | 17:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "threat analysis (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:52 | |
| elmiko | i know we talked about this earlier, are there any links we should add? | 17:52 |
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| dg___ | sorry I missed the earlier discussion, did you catch the links to the TA blog posts? | 17:52 |
| dg___ | Anchor TA and TA Process? | 17:52 |
| elmiko | i don't think so, post again | 17:52 |
| elmiko | we can never get enough of these links ;) | 17:53 |
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| dg___ | #link http://openstack-security.github.io/collaboration/2016/04/26/threat-analysis-process.html | 17:53 |
| tmcpeak | +1 - love links | 17:53 |
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| dg___ | #link http://openstack-security.github.io/threatanalysis/2016/02/07/anchorTA.html | 17:53 |
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| elmiko | dg___++ | 17:53 |
| elmiko | leaves us 5min to spare for AOB | 17:54 |
| elmiko | #topic AOB | 17:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:54 | |
| dave-mcc_ | On OSSNs, the last patch set on 0063 needs some reviews please: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/267800/ | 17:54 |
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| tmcpeak | cool, will check it out | 17:54 |
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| tmcpeak | maybe a wrap? | 17:55 |
| browne | what about midcycle? | 17:55 |
| tmcpeak | oooh | 17:55 |
| tmcpeak | good point | 17:55 |
| tmcpeak | do we have any host volunteers? | 17:55 |
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| elmiko | i don't think my house is big enough =( | 17:56 |
| ccneill | I've got a van down by the river... | 17:56 |
| elmiko | haha | 17:56 |
| ccneill | :P | 17:56 |
| dg___ | michaelxin and rob talked about hosting it in Austin | 17:56 |
| tmcpeak | I dunno, the basement looked pretty spacious elmiko | 17:56 |
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| elmiko | tmcpeak: all smoke and mirrors, i assure you ;) | 17:56 |
| browne | vmware would be willing to host in Palo Alto, i believe. | 17:56 |
| michaelxin | we talked about hosting it again in the castle | 17:56 |
| michaelxin | Rob wanted to host it in UK | 17:56 |
| browne | what part of the world works best? | 17:56 |
| michaelxin | how many people will go to UK? | 17:57 |
| dg___ | happy to host in bristol/cheltenham, uk | 17:57 |
| elmiko | dg___: +1 | 17:57 |
| dg___ | as much as Rob and I would love to host in the UK, I suspect it would be a lonely meeting | 17:57 |
| tmcpeak | maybe we ought to wait for hyakuhei before we get too far on midcycle | 17:57 |
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| elmiko | dg___: more time we could spend at the pub ;) | 17:57 |
| michaelxin | We would like to host it in the castle | 17:57 |
| elmiko | tmcpeak: +1 good thought | 17:57 |
| dg___ | so we are happy to host in UK if there are enough people who can come, but we are assuming that fundamentally it will need to be in the US | 17:57 |
| michaelxin | if you all are ok with coming to here in Aug or Sept | 17:58 |
| ccneill | hmm.. idea | 17:58 |
| elmiko | #info rackspace and vmware both willing to host, we should discuss again with hyakuhei | 17:58 |
| dg___ | michaelxin is that san diego? | 17:58 |
| ccneill | what if we do it in Castle, but maybe the UK folks can come to the Rackspace London office? | 17:58 |
| michaelxin | dg___: It is san Antonio! | 17:58 |
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| ccneill | not sure how that would work, but to try to make it easy on everyone as possible | 17:58 |
| browne | rackspace has telepresence? | 17:58 |
| michaelxin | The heart of texas | 17:58 |
| dg___ | potentially, although we would rather go to rackspace austin offices | 17:58 |
| dave-mcc_ | i liked co-locating with barbican last time. maybe look for another project to co-locate with this cycle? keystone? | 17:58 |
| michaelxin | +1 | 17:58 |
| elmiko | dave-mcc_: +1 | 17:58 |
| dg___ | +1 | 17:58 |
| browne | dave-mcc_: that would be cool | 17:58 |
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| elmiko | 1 min left... | 17:59 |
| tmcpeak | allright | 17:59 |
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| dg___ | lets wrap? thanks everybody, especially people joining us for the first time | 17:59 |
| tmcpeak | +1 | 17:59 |
| elmiko | thanks all! | 17:59 |
| tmcpeak | thanks elmiko! | 17:59 |
| michaelxin | thanks | 17:59 |
| elmiko | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| tkelsey | thanks all | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 5 17:59:31 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-05-05-17.00.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-05-05-17.00.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-05-05-17.00.log.html | 17:59 |
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| ccneill | o/ | 17:59 |
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| lhinds | thanks * | 18:00 |
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