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| joehuang | hello, Is the meeting of architecture working group in this channel | 01:01 |
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| toabctl | dirk, number80 jpena IgorYozhikov meeting? | 13:01 |
| jpena | o/ | 13:01 |
| dirk | o/ | 13:01 |
| dirk | #startmeeting rpm_packaging | 13:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 20 13:02:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:02 | |
| dirk | #chair jpena toabctl | 13:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rpm_packaging' | 13:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: dirk jpena toabctl | 13:02 |
| dirk | number80: around? | 13:02 |
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| dirk | #topic roll call | 13:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:04 | |
| dirk | please update agenda on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-rpm-packaging | 13:04 |
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| dirk | #topic team mascot / logo request for feedback | 13:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "team mascot / logo request for feedback (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:07 | |
| dirk | so the first draft of our team mascot, the packaging donkey got back | 13:07 |
| dirk | I forwarded it to openstack-dev as well as pasted it here: | 13:07 |
| dirk | ttps://imagebin.ca/v/2z6DF6FNGzPt | 13:07 |
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| toabctl | looks great imo! | 13:08 |
| dirk | the request was to discuss it at the barcelona summit and then provide feedback until November 11th | 13:08 |
| dirk | #link https://imagebin.ca/v/2z6DF6FNGzPt | 13:08 |
| dirk | yep, I like it as well | 13:08 |
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| dirk | any questions on that one? | 13:08 |
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| IgorYozhikov | o/ | 13:09 |
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| dirk | #chair IgorYozhikov | 13:09 |
| openstack | Current chairs: IgorYozhikov dirk jpena toabctl | 13:09 |
| IgorYozhikov | Hi every1 | 13:10 |
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| jpena | nope, it looks ok to me | 13:10 |
| toabctl | hey IgorYozhikov ! | 13:10 |
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| IgorYozhikov | sorry was busy enough on different activities | 13:11 |
| IgorYozhikov | according to logo - looks fine | 13:11 |
| IgorYozhikov | but a little bit weird | 13:12 |
| number80 | (sorry, I was stuck in the subway) | 13:12 |
| number80 | logo is fine with me | 13:12 |
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| IgorYozhikov | number80, about PTG - I could attend only remotely | 13:13 |
| dirk | #topic Project Team Gathering | 13:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Team Gathering (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:13 | |
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| IgorYozhikov | so if PTG event could be organized with a possibility of remote attendance as was suggested by dirk it will be great | 13:14 |
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| toabctl | I guess I'll be in atlanta | 13:14 |
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| dirk | IgorYozhikov: well we need to organize it then | 13:15 |
| dirk | I don't know yet | 13:15 |
| dirk | I'll likely not go or only half a week | 13:15 |
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| number80 | IgorYozhikov: ack | 13:16 |
| IgorYozhikov | :) | 13:16 |
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| number80 | well, below a quorum, we'll likely just organize some meeting for newcomers | 13:17 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, do you plan to do a kind of workshop? | 13:18 |
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| IgorYozhikov | seems like number80 is still in underground and lost connectivity :( | 13:20 |
| dirk | the main question I have is what we reported back | 13:20 |
| dirk | because iirc the deadline was earlier last week/this week | 13:20 |
| IgorYozhikov | i c | 13:21 |
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| dirk | ok, postpone.. | 13:21 |
| IgorYozhikov | what could be reported except current progress and how to participate? | 13:21 |
| dirk | #topic test machinery packaging: | 13:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "test machinery packaging: (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:22 | |
| dirk | toabctl? | 13:22 |
| toabctl | number80, added it to the agenda | 13:22 |
| toabctl | it's basically about adding -test (or -tests) packages to some clients | 13:22 |
| dirk | jpena: can you help out understanding the concerns? | 13:23 |
| IgorYozhikov | technically it looks fine | 13:23 |
| dirk | or is there anything left to clarify at all? | 13:23 |
| jpena | it's fine now. My concern was that, if the test code was included in the -test package, we'd need to change some BR in packages | 13:23 |
| number80 | I think we can just merge it | 13:23 |
| jpena | but it's ok now | 13:23 |
| number80 | if we separate test code, we can just put it in -tests subpackage and have -test depends on it | 13:24 |
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| IgorYozhikov | number80, I merged it, looks fine | 13:24 |
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| number80 | ack | 13:24 |
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| IgorYozhikov | Let's move next? | 13:25 |
| toabctl | cool. thx. I'll create the backports | 13:25 |
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| dirk | number80: ok, can we switch back to the previous topic now that you're back? ) | 13:26 |
| dirk | #topic Project Team Gathering | 13:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Team Gathering (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:27 | |
| toabctl | backport: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389197/ | 13:27 |
| toabctl | pardon | 13:27 |
| number80 | Considering that not everyone will be going, I suggest to only plan work sessions | 13:28 |
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| dirk | number80: did you ask for space to be allocated ? I think the deadline was sometime last week right? | 13:28 |
| dirk | if not then I guess we can plan for a virtual meeting in that week anyway | 13:29 |
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| number80 | I already told the foundation to save us some space but some people are still uncertain for joining | 13:29 |
| number80 | (even for RH, we have no confirmation) | 13:29 |
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| dirk | ok, thanks | 13:30 |
| dirk | #topic (https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/rpm-packaging+status:open | 13:31 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "(https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/rpm-packaging+status:open (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:31 | |
| dirk | argh | 13:31 |
| dirk | #topic package reviews | 13:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "package reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:31 | |
| dirk | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/rpm-packaging+status:open | 13:31 |
| dirk | so thanks to TonyXu we have an long review queue | 13:31 |
| jpena | I'd appreciate reviews for https://review.openstack.org/387345 (py_prep macro, to avoid using the req_cleanup block) | 13:31 |
| number80 | I'm not found of the name but I'm ok with the macros rather than using ablock | 13:32 |
| jpena | I'm open to better naming alternatives ;) | 13:33 |
| number80 | %py_requirements_cleanup or something like that | 13:33 |
| jpena | ideally, I was aiming at including the %autosetup part in the macro. But that requires some unification on the names | 13:34 |
| dirk | well, I guess the point was that this is doing something implementation specific (and nothing on suse side) | 13:34 |
| number80 | ok, I +1'd it but if there's another +2, I can turn my vote +2 | 13:35 |
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| dirk | I'm +2 on it except for the version number change | 13:36 |
| jpena | ok, I'll fix that | 13:36 |
| number80 | wfm | 13:36 |
| dirk | unfortunately due to the way the suse ci works right now there has to be a change in the spec file | 13:36 |
| dirk | but I'd just use .x.y updates for that | 13:36 |
| dirk | anything else on this ? | 13:36 |
| jpena | nothing from my side, I'll update the review | 13:37 |
| dirk | in general we have a lot of review to work through.. I think toabctl and I did a fair bunch of them | 13:37 |
| dirk | we need more reviews though | 13:37 |
| dirk | also there are a lot of reviews hanging on some mos ci issue | 13:37 |
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| dirk | like for example https://review.openstack.org/#/c/384669/ | 13:37 |
| dirk | does that ring a bell to anyone? | 13:38 |
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| toabctl | I tried to ping IgorYozhikov and astsmtl about the failing mos ci | 13:38 |
| dirk | also IgorYozhikov the %autosetup PR from this morning failed in CI | 13:38 |
| toabctl | but without any answer. | 13:38 |
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| number80 | probably an old python-mock | 13:38 |
| IgorYozhikov | toabctl, I was busy whole previous week, sorry for that | 13:39 |
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| dirk | IgorYozhikov: any chance that we can get the ci issues worked out ? | 13:39 |
| dirk | there might be a real bug, I jus tdon't understand it :) | 13:39 |
| number80 | seems, that they 2.0.0, weird | 13:39 |
| toabctl | IgorYozhikov, just a note that you are busy would be nice :) | 13:39 |
| IgorYozhikov | toabctl, got it. | 13:39 |
| IgorYozhikov | I'll look at our CI failures today | 13:40 |
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| IgorYozhikov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389000/ this one is fixed | 13:41 |
| dirk | thanks | 13:42 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: thank you | 13:42 |
| dirk | #action IgorYozhikov look at the CI failures today | 13:42 |
| IgorYozhikov | :) | 13:42 |
| dirk | #topic renderspec | 13:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "renderspec (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:42 | |
| dirk | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/389000/ | 13:42 |
| dirk | argh | 13:42 |
| dirk | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/renderspec+status:open | 13:43 |
| toabctl | there is still the version thing open | 13:43 |
| * dirk hasn't parsed Alans feedback yet | 13:43 | |
| toabctl | ah. alan commented again. | 13:43 |
| dirk | do we want to discuss it today? | 13:43 |
| toabctl | I'll have a look then | 13:43 |
| toabctl | nope | 13:43 |
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| dirk | ok. the other reviews I just approved | 13:44 |
| dirk | #topic Open floor | 13:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open floor (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:44 | |
| dirk | as reminder next week no meeting - barcelona summit | 13:44 |
| IgorYozhikov | yep | 13:45 |
| dirk | and week after most of us will be in a different timezone, but the meeting does not move! | 13:45 |
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| dirk | any last words..? | 13:47 |
| IgorYozhikov | silence... if no more topics let's finish our meeting? | 13:47 |
| dirk | cya all next week hopefully! have safe travels! | 13:47 |
| IgorYozhikov | :) | 13:47 |
| toabctl | ciao! | 13:47 |
| dirk | #endmeeting | 13:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 20 13:47:50 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:47 |
| jpena | see you! | 13:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-10-20-13.02.html | 13:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-10-20-13.02.txt | 13:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-10-20-13.02.log.html | 13:47 |
| number80 | Ithanks, see you next week hopefully | 13:48 |
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| szaher_ | Hi slashme | 14:03 |
| slashme | Hi | 14:03 |
| yangyape_ | hi slashme | 14:03 |
| slashme | #startmeeting freezer | 14:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 20 14:03:51 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slashme. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'freezer' | 14:03 |
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| slashme | There are no topic set for today. Anything you guys want to discuss ? | 14:05 |
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| slashme | By the way, there will be no meeting next week because of the summit. I'll send an update to the mailing list later today. | 14:09 |
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| yangyape_ | ok slashme | 14:10 |
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| slashme | I updated the pending review list here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings, thanks to anyone that took some time to review code this week :) | 14:11 |
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| szaher_ | Can everyone do his best to finish all the reviews we have upstream | 14:17 |
| szaher_ | plz review the code guys | 14:17 |
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| slashme | If no one has any topic he/she wants to discuss, I'll end the meeting early | 14:41 |
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| szaher_ | Thanks slashme | 14:45 |
| slashme | Thanks szaher yangyape_ | 14:45 |
| slashme | #endmeeting | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 20 14:45:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-10-20-14.03.html | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-10-20-14.03.txt | 14:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-10-20-14.03.log.html | 14:45 |
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| ravichandran | hello | 14:54 |
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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 20 15:00:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
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| bswartz | hello all | 15:00 |
| cknight | Hi | 15:00 |
| markstur | hola | 15:00 |
| ganso | hello | 15:00 |
| ravichandran | hello | 15:00 |
| vponomaryov | Hello | 15:00 |
| toabctl | hey | 15:00 |
| zengyingzhe | Hi | 15:00 |
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| dustins | \o | 15:01 |
| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | I dunno if some people have started traveling already | 15:01 |
| bswartz | today's meeting should be short in any case | 15:01 |
| ravichandran | Adding invalid user to the access rule changes existing valid access rules state from 'active' to 'error'.is this expected behavior ? | 15:01 |
| bswartz | ravichandran: you're on the agenda, wait your turn | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | #topic Specs and Deadlines | 15:02 |
| ravichandran | SORRY | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs and Deadlines (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| bswartz | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/374883/ | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | I've responded to all the feedback on this spec | 15:02 |
| bswartz | ideally I'd like to merge it before we go to barcelona so I can announce deadlines | 15:03 |
| bswartz | if anyone has any remaining issues with the proposal, please raise them now | 15:03 |
| bswartz | otherwise I'd looking for two +2s | 15:03 |
| bswartz | so regarding deadlines, that spec sets out the deadlines for specs themselves, and related features | 15:04 |
| bswartz | however we have some other community deadlines | 15:04 |
| bswartz | including the "new driver" deadline and the "major feature" deadline | 15:04 |
| bswartz | I hope it's clear that the new spec process is indented to supercede the major feature deadline with a better process | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | so I intend to drop the major feature deadline | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | however the question of deadlines for new drivers remains | 15:05 |
| bswartz | I feel the deadline we've had (feature freeze minus 3 weeks) has been working pretty well | 15:06 |
| bswartz | so.... if there's no disagreement we'll keep that deadline too | 15:06 |
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| * bswartz wonders if he's talking to himself | 15:06 | |
| ganso | bswartz: I am a bit confused, or I possibly missed the part where it says the new "major features" deadline, I thought it was only mentioning specs deadlines. Our "major feature" deadline refers to feature freeze | 15:07 |
| kaisers_ | na, listening ;) | 15:07 |
| bswartz | ganso: for mitaka and newton we have a "major feature deadline" at feature freeze minus 6 weeks | 15:07 |
| ganso | bswartz: and on a previous meeting, we established that the ocata major feature proposal deadline was before x-mas | 15:07 |
| bswartz | s/have/had/ | 15:07 |
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| bswartz | the new specs process is intended to cover all major features (as well as minor features) | 15:08 |
| bswartz | oh yes I remember that | 15:08 |
| bswartz | thank you for jogging my memory | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | ganso: do you have a reference to that discussion | 15:09 |
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| bswartz | we did agree on a date, and I need to make sure we keep that agreed date | 15:10 |
| ganso | bswartz: let me head over to eavesdrop | 15:10 |
| bswartz | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-22-15.00.log.html | 15:11 |
| ganso | bswartz: nice | 15:11 |
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| bswartz | #agreed driver proposal deadline Dec 19 | 15:11 |
| bswartz | that's from the previous meeting | 15:11 |
| bswartz | I'll make sure that gets on the schedule | 15:12 |
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| bswartz | I don't think we cover major feature proposal freeze in that meeting | 15:12 |
| bswartz | under the new specs process, there will be deadlines for the specs | 15:13 |
| bswartz | if we agree to a spec but no code materializes, then we need a mechanism to push out those features too | 15:13 |
| ganso | bswartz: ok so assuming a feature has a spec merged, its patch can be submitted up to which day? | 15:14 |
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| bswartz | well no later than Dec 19 | 15:14 |
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| bswartz | but ideally even sooner than that | 15:14 |
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| ganso | bswartz: including very minor features that do not require specs, as stated in the specs' spec? | 15:15 |
| bswartz | I'm worried we don't have enough people here to make a final decision | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | ganso: I updated the spec to imply that we expect specs for every feature | 15:16 |
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| bswartz | the only exception would be a "trivial fix" type of feature | 15:16 |
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| ganso | bswartz: o_O I guess I missed that part | 15:16 |
| bswartz | the thinking is that no matter what we're implementing, it's best to hash out the details in a spec doc rather than code | 15:17 |
| ganso | bswartz: no I did not. "Lastly, I propose that we require specs for any kind of change with broad impacts. It's better to agree on the design before we get too deep into implementation." | 15:17 |
| ganso | bswartz: so, if it has no broad impact, does not require a spec, just a blueprint... right/ | 15:17 |
| bswartz | as we've been burned by features that had to be rewritten several times because we never agreed on a design up front | 15:17 |
| bswartz | yeah if it's just a new config option in your driver, no spec | 15:18 |
| bswartz | if you're implementing an existing interface in your driver, no spec | 15:18 |
| ganso | bswartz: and if it is not driver-related? | 15:18 |
| markstur | I thought you considered most driver features not spec-worthy | 15:18 |
| bswartz | if you're modifying an REST API, then write a spec | 15:18 |
| ganso | bswartz: I do not consider driver-related spec worthy | 15:18 |
| markstur | nevermind you answered before I said it | 15:18 |
| ganso | bswartz: but still some core features may have no broad impact | 15:19 |
| bswartz | ganso: example? | 15:19 |
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| ganso | bswartz: a config option in the data service | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | ganso: yeah I would say certain config options could be added without specs | 15:20 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: Do any changes in testing approach require spec too? | 15:20 |
| bswartz | however in some cases I could see long arguments about the some config options and those arguments are probably better to have in a document rather than the code | 15:20 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: I think not | 15:20 |
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| bswartz | testing is not features | 15:21 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: so, everything related to testing is separate kitchen? | 15:21 |
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| ganso | bswartz: couldn't those long arguments be discussed in the patch comments or a weekly meeting if the change is small enough? | 15:21 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: it just seems weird to write a spec about a testing approach | 15:21 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: not sure | 15:21 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: agreement on running some specific amount of functional and scenario tests may require spec | 15:22 |
| bswartz | If we need to have a discussion and having a written document would help, then we *could* have a spec for testing, but we could just as easily handle those situations with wiki docs | 15:22 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: that's a good point | 15:22 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: because we will force people to update their third-party CIs in this case | 15:22 |
| bswartz | if we're going to increase the burden on our 3rd party CI systems, then those discussion should be formalized and probably a spec is the best way to do that | 15:22 |
| bswartz | ganso: yeah possibly | 15:23 |
| bswartz | ganso: we'll have to use our judgement for stuff like that | 15:23 |
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| ganso | bswartz: I am starting to worry that we may get a big number of lower priority specs | 15:23 |
| ganso | bswartz: because of statement "every feature, even small, requires a spec" | 15:23 |
| ganso | bswartz: I was ok with "features with broad impact require a spec" | 15:24 |
| bswartz | ganso: I'm imagining what a spec to add an option to the data service would look like -- and I'm thinking maybe 30 lines of text | 15:24 |
| bswartz | that shouldn't be hard to review and agree to | 15:24 |
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| ganso | bswartz: concern is getting review attention to that spec | 15:24 |
| bswartz | but you're right -- we don't want to go overboard | 15:24 |
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| ganso | bswartz: the same people could look at the code, if the feature is small enough, and discuss at the comments | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | okay so we have 2 open items | 15:25 |
| ganso | bswartz: if we are trying to prevent effort wasted writing code, in this case, if it is small enough, we would be adding more effort, not saving | 15:25 |
| bswartz | 1) date for major feature proposal freeze | 15:25 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: +1 about efforts | 15:26 |
| bswartz | 2) spec requirement for "small" features | 15:26 |
| bswartz | since we're missing several key people today I propose we make those decisions next week and table them for today | 15:26 |
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| vponomaryov | let's allow people to upload code without spec if they are ok if it is not accepted for some reason | 15:26 |
| vponomaryov | so, spec will be guarantee | 15:27 |
| ganso | bswartz: I would like to add a candidate solution for #1: Dec 19. I see it as far back enough to include major features | 15:27 |
| bswartz | I'm certainly okay with code that doesn't have specs but I don't want to end up with a sitation were we're disputing whether a feature has broad impact or not | 15:27 |
| ganso | bswartz: I kinda agree with vponomaryov on this, maybe if we see that the feature is deserves a spec, we can say "-1, please write a spec" | 15:28 |
| bswartz | ganso: I'm okay with that but depending on when that -1 happens, it could be too late to land in the release | 15:28 |
| bswartz | then people will fight the request for a spec on the grounds that it pushes their change out of the release | 15:29 |
| ganso | bswartz: indeed | 15:29 |
| markstur | Need exception process for things that come in late and are needed | 15:29 |
| bswartz | and that's exactly what we're trying to avoid -- we want people to just make their proposals early enough that we can make those decisions while being fully informed | 15:29 |
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| bswartz | okay I think we need to move on | 15:30 |
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| bswartz | I hope the wording in my spec is clear enough to merge | 15:30 |
| bswartz | I haven't heard any argument against the "broad impact" language | 15:31 |
| bswartz | we can update the spec deadline spec if we make more decisions to refine that cutoff | 15:31 |
| bswartz | #topic Adding invalid user to the access rule changes valid access rule state from 'active' to 'error' | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding invalid user to the access rule changes valid access rule state from 'active' to 'error' (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:31 | |
| bswartz | ravichandran: thank you for being patient | 15:31 |
| bswartz | ravichandran: you're up now | 15:32 |
| ravichandran | thank you | 15:32 |
| ravichandran | Adding invalid user to the access rule changes existing valid access rules state from 'active' to 'error'.is this expected behavior ? | 15:32 |
| ganso | ravichandran: I would say, yes, it is expected | 15:32 |
| bswartz | ravichandran: you mean the backend doesn't recognize the user and fails to grant access | 15:32 |
| bswartz | ? | 15:32 |
| bswartz | I don't see any alternative other than putting the access rule state into error in that case | 15:33 |
| ravichandran | If one rules fails for some reason like invalid user etc | 15:33 |
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| ravichandran | it changes all other rules state to error | 15:33 |
| bswartz | I believe we need a better way to manage valid users for cifs shares, but that's sort of a separate problem | 15:33 |
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| bswartz | well no the only rule that should be in error state is the one with the invalid user | 15:34 |
| ganso | ravichandran: right now, due to bad design, all access rules 'state' field value derivate on share_instance 'access_rules_status' field value | 15:34 |
| bswartz | if other rules are going to error state that sounds like a bug | 15:34 |
| bswartz | >_< | 15:34 |
| ganso | ravichandran: there is a patch proposed to fix that | 15:35 |
| * bswartz admits being responsible for "bad design" | 15:35 | |
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| ganso | ravichandran: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369668/ | 15:35 |
| ravichandran | oh ok | 15:35 |
| bswartz | yes that patch will improve things | 15:36 |
| ganso | ravichandran: if that is your sole concern, you could checkout that patch and test if it solves your problem, and provide feedback on it whenever possible | 15:36 |
| markstur | -1 needs a spec | 15:36 |
| ganso | markstur: lol | 15:36 |
| markstur | ganso: you think I'm joking? | 15:36 |
| ravichandran | thank you ganso | 15:36 |
| ganso | markstur: no lol | 15:36 |
| bswartz | however I want to go further and find a way for manila to have some knowledge of the universe of valid users | 15:36 |
| ravichandran | I will check | 15:36 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: ^ | 15:37 |
| gouthamr | markstur: it's coming | 15:37 |
| bswartz | :-) | 15:37 |
| ravichandran | one more thing allowing user rule to NFS | 15:37 |
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| ravichandran | is not required | 15:37 |
| ravichandran | correct ? | 15:37 |
| bswartz | that's correct | 15:37 |
| ravichandran | we may have to add that validation also to the ui and backend | 15:38 |
| markstur | bswartz: list of known users sounds cool. Awesome if UI could allow selection -- but number of users could be too big for manila to know them all | 15:38 |
| bswartz | NFS servers traditionally do access by IP | 15:38 |
| gouthamr | it's something HPE can do... so far as my code reading goes | 15:38 |
| bswartz | and individual files/directories have user ACLs | 15:38 |
| bswartz | markstur: it gets complicated fast | 15:38 |
| bswartz | markstur: but we've been avoiding it for too long and now it's causing problems for testing | 15:39 |
| bswartz | so we need to think about how far we want to go towards solving that problem | 15:39 |
| bswartz | ravichandran: no user access for NFS | 15:40 |
| bswartz | just IP | 15:40 |
| ganso | ravichandran: the case you mentioned could be applied for any protocol | 15:40 |
| bswartz | anything else on this topic? | 15:40 |
| ravichandran | no i am done | 15:40 |
| markstur | gouthamr: HPE did only IP for NFS. It was IP+user for CIFS, but IP is no longer required to make behavior more like other drivers. It's a problem if we behave differently on that | 15:40 |
| bswartz | markstur: correction: IP was NEVER required for CIFS, but we did have some drivers that supported it | 15:40 |
| ganso | ravichandran: like, ok, for NFS no user rules, but what if another protocol accepts both, I believe we shouldn't have a mapping that says that hardcoded into manila, or even UI mechanism to behave differently for each protocol, the driver should determine what is compatible or not | 15:41 |
| markstur | Yes. I thought it was a good thing -- but it is BAD if you don't know which backend you got and one need IP access and the other doesn't! | 15:41 |
| gouthamr | markstur: oh.. yes, i got that the other way around | 15:41 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: we allow any type of a rule to any protocol via our interfaces | 15:41 |
| vponomaryov | ravichandran: ^ | 15:41 |
| ravichandran | oh ok | 15:42 |
| gouthamr | markstur: +1 - goes back to users being confused when they see the UI giving them all these options | 15:42 |
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| bswartz | so where this gets ugly is that share-server backends behave different from no-share-server backends | 15:42 |
| bswartz | we went into depth on this topic at the midcycle | 15:43 |
| markstur | gouthamr: User could create 2 share get 2 backends one works w/ user access, one doesn't (waiting for additional IP access) <-- that's not ideal :( | 15:43 |
| ganso | gouthamr: then I think we should come up with some guidelines on the use of protocols, we don't have such now | 15:43 |
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| bswartz | ganso: +1 | 15:43 |
| ganso | bswartz: there are a few drivers that accept more than one access type for a certain protocol, while other drivers that use that same protocol don't | 15:43 |
| bswartz | I'd like to say NFS->IP access, CIFS->user access | 15:43 |
| gouthamr | i wish we could re-write that portion, just like we have share capabilities.. when you create the share, the backend can tell us the supported access types and we can use that information in the API.. | 15:43 |
| markstur | We should start w/ what bswartz said ^ as the default behaovior | 15:44 |
| bswartz | and other protocols just use whatever is appropriate | 15:44 |
| markstur | Probably makes sense to extend it with capabilities at some point | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | markstur: if we did that, what's the impact on the HPE driver? | 15:44 |
| markstur | HPE driver already changed to do as bswartz prefers | 15:45 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: you know he doesn't work for HPE anymore right? | 15:45 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: i do :P i don't yet know who their driver maintainer is | 15:45 |
| ganso | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/manila/devref/share_back_ends_feature_support_mapping.html | 15:46 |
| ravichandran | its me | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | gouthamr: it's ravichandran | 15:46 |
| gouthamr | okay, that clarifies, thanks ravichandran | 15:46 |
| ravichandran | welcome | 15:46 |
| bswartz | alright... | 15:46 |
| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:46 | |
| bswartz | anything else for today? | 15:46 |
| ganso | well we have not decided anything on the topic above, did we? | 15:47 |
| gouthamr | does anyone have a fancy camera that they can bring to BCN? :) | 15:47 |
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| bswartz | ganso: we explained that NFS doesn't need user rules and CIFS doesn't need IP rules | 15:47 |
| bswartz | and ravichandran will review gouthamr's change and see if it addresses his issue | 15:48 |
| ganso | ok, are we going to come up with some validation or guidelines, will existing drivers have to change? (see link) | 15:48 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: I have a shitty camera I will bring | 15:48 |
| markstur | gouthamr: You mean like a polaroid? | 15:48 |
| ganso | bswartz: ^ | 15:48 |
| gouthamr | i was looking beyond bswartz :P we didn't have a great webex experience from Austin | 15:48 |
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| bswartz | gouthamr: that's because we used google hangouts not webex in Austin IIRC | 15:49 |
| gouthamr | i can host the webex/hangouts from our sessions.. but i was hoping we can use a good camera | 15:49 |
| bswartz | ganso: which drivers doesn't support the minimum? | 15:50 |
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| gouthamr | bswartz: okay, we'll just use your 199x webcam xD | 15:50 |
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| ganso | bswartz: they support more than the minimum | 15:50 |
| markstur | gouthamr: chat with hemna and diablo_rojo and maybe we can get live youtube channels like cinder did (know it is a stretch for barcelona, tho) | 15:51 |
| ganso | bswartz: huawei's driver supports user for NFS, EMC isilon supports IP for CIFS | 15:51 |
| markstur | ganso: ugh | 15:51 |
| gouthamr | markstur: sure thing... | 15:51 |
| bswartz | ganso: that's fine -- we can modify the manager to prevent those if we choose | 15:51 |
| bswartz | the driver won't need to change | 15:51 |
| ganso | bswartz: according to what gouthamr and markstur said, users that are unaware of the backends/drivers shouldn't have to see different behavior on certain shares | 15:51 |
| bswartz | if a driver is missing minimum required access control then it will need to change | 15:51 |
| bswartz | I plan to enforce that with scenario tests | 15:52 |
| ganso | bswartz: but for instance, certain drivers probably create CIFS share without any access | 15:52 |
| bswartz | ganso: yes we need to fix that | 15:52 |
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| markstur | bswartz: if that access rule is required it would be bad to block it in manager (don't know those, but that was my HPE way) | 15:53 |
| bswartz | ganso: new shares should have no access | 15:53 |
| ganso | bswartz: I asked my co-worker to add full IP access by default for CIFS shares, which is not done by default in the backend, so we wouldn't have to worry about this | 15:53 |
| ganso | bswartz: I mean, CIFS shares would have full IP access, and require the user access to have access... | 15:53 |
| ganso | bswartz: otherwise, they would require both access types to work | 15:53 |
| markstur | No access by defualt should be a req. More than 1 driver has run into that. | 15:54 |
| bswartz | ganso: the requirement should be simple | 15:54 |
| bswartz | for cifs shares, if I create a share, and grant access to a user, then mount as that user, it MUST succeed | 15:54 |
| bswartz | it's not okay to also require some kind of IP based access too | 15:54 |
| ganso | bswartz: yes, but some backends have IP + User access, where both need to be allowed so the client can mount the share | 15:55 |
| ganso | bswartz: Hitachi HNAS for instance is like this | 15:55 |
| ganso | bswartz: which is what I said above | 15:55 |
| bswartz | it might be okay to further restrict access by IP, but the expectation from end users is that cifs shares should work with user access only | 15:55 |
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| ganso | bswartz: if we did not add full IP access in the driver when a CIFS share is created, a user access rule wouldn't be enough because the IP may not be allowed to mount | 15:56 |
| bswartz | so the absence of any IP-based access rules must be interpreted as ALL IPs ALLOWED | 15:56 |
| bswartz | ^ for CIFS shares | 15:56 |
| bswartz | for NFS shares the absence of any IP-based access rules must be interpreted as nobody allowed | 15:56 |
| bswartz | I think we need a spec here >_< | 15:57 |
| bswartz | so we can have a proper argument | 15:57 |
| ganso | bswartz: yes | 15:57 |
| ganso | bswartz: that's what I meant that maybe some drivers would need to change | 15:57 |
| bswartz | okay I agree | 15:57 |
| bswartz | I'm hoping that scenario tests will make the expectations clear | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | I'll include this into our access rules discussion at the summit | 15:58 |
| bswartz | scenario tests will add user-access rules for CIFS shares and they won't add IP access rules, and scenario tests will expect that to work | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | the only open question for me is: how to we pick a user that we know will exist on both the client and the server | 15:59 |
| bswartz | I think that's a solvable problem though | 15:59 |
| bswartz | okay wer | 15:59 |
| bswartz | okay we're out of time | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide/identity-integrate-with-ldap.html | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | :) | 15:59 |
| bswartz | see you guys in spain next week! | 16:00 |
| ganso | have a nice flight everyone | 16:00 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 20 16:00:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-10-20-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-10-20-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-10-20-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| ccneill | o/ | 17:00 |
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| hyakuhei | #startmeeting security | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Oct 20 17:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:01 |
| hyakuhei | o/ running over! | 17:01 |
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| singlethink | hey y'all | 17:01 |
| hyakuhei | #chair ccneill | 17:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: ccneill hyakuhei | 17:01 |
| hyakuhei | :P | 17:01 |
| ccneill | :o | 17:01 |
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| ccneill | the coup begins | 17:01 |
| browne | o/ | 17:02 |
| vinaypotluri | o/ | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda Agenda | 17:02 |
| unrahul | o/ | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | oh wait. no meeting this week. | 17:02 |
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| hyakuhei | We had a whole vote. | 17:02 |
| tkelsey | o/ | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | Damn it. | 17:02 |
| elmiko | o/ | 17:02 |
| ccneill | haha yeah | 17:02 |
| tkelsey | lol | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | ok, good meeting guys :D | 17:03 |
| unrahul | oh yeah forgot abotu that | 17:03 |
| unrahul | :D | 17:03 |
| elmiko | \o/ | 17:03 |
| knangia | o/ | 17:03 |
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| hyakuhei | Take it to #openstack-security people :) | 17:03 |
| ccneill | hyakuhei: had a few questions for you, but I'm ok with wrapping up early | 17:03 |
| singlethink | coup indeed | 17:03 |
| ccneill | ;) | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | ccneill I'm burned out - can you mail my gmail? | 17:03 |
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| ccneill | sure thing | 17:03 |
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| ccneill | I think I have it.. | 17:03 |
| ccneill | mind pming it to me | 17:03 |
| ccneill | ? | 17:03 |
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| ccneill | #endmeeting | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Oct 20 17:04:08 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-10-20-17.01.html | 17:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-10-20-17.01.txt | 17:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-10-20-17.01.log.html | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | thanks ccneill | 17:04 |
| ccneill | >:) got to do at least one thing | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | thanks all | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | :D | 17:04 |
| ccneill | later, all. have fun at the summit! | 17:04 |
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| ccneill | see y'all in a few weeks | 17:04 |
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