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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 13:59 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 7 13:59:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 13:59 |
| bauzas | \o for 25 mins | 14:00 |
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| edleafe | huh, my laptop is off by a minute | 14:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:00 |
| alex_xu | o/ | 14:00 |
| Yingxin | o/ | 14:00 |
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| * bauzas imagines edleafe running to finding a power cable :) | 14:00 | |
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| edleafe | jaypipes said something about having a meeting... | 14:00 |
| bauzas | oh, you guys shifted time too | 14:01 |
| edleafe | so he may or may not be here | 14:01 |
| bauzas | like I said in -nova, I will need to leave by 1425UTC | 14:01 |
| edleafe | bauzas: Yeah. 8am instead of 9am for me | 14:01 |
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| bauzas | I could be back by 20 mins later | 14:01 |
| edleafe | #topic Specs and Reviews | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs and Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:02 | |
| edleafe | Nothing added to the agenda | 14:02 |
| edleafe | And I'm on my first day back after a wonderful holiday in Barcelona | 14:02 |
| edleafe | So I have no idea what's going on :) | 14:02 |
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| edleafe | Anyone want to put something up for discussion? | 14:03 |
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| * edleafe thinks everyone else is also recovering | 14:04 | |
| bauzas | well, we're still needing a bit of discussion around the possible REST API for get me a list of RPs | 14:04 |
| edleafe | bauzas: has that been happening? | 14:04 |
| * alex_xu can't recover due to he know still have people enjoy vacation in Barcelona | 14:04 | |
| bauzas | but that can wait a bit since I rebased my patch into a couple of changes | 14:04 |
| edleafe | the discussion, I mean | 14:04 |
| bauzas | edleafe: nope | 14:04 |
| bauzas | edleafe: nothing yet | 14:04 |
| edleafe | ok | 14:05 |
| edleafe | probably best on the ML? | 14:05 |
| bauzas | please no | 14:05 |
| edleafe | why? | 14:05 |
| edleafe | lag? | 14:05 |
| bauzas | because we have already a list of very opiniated people that I don't want to grow :) | 14:05 |
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| bauzas | we somehow need to have a synchronous call | 14:05 |
| bauzas | that's what missing | 14:06 |
| bauzas | what's* | 14:06 |
| edleafe | IMO a synchronous call works when the options are already laid out for people to consider | 14:06 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I think we passed thru all the options | 14:06 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: now we need to pick the one that makes consensus | 14:06 |
| edleafe | So is there a summary that people like me who haven't been keeping up-to-date can review? | 14:06 |
| cdent | edleafe: we agreed at the last day of summit that we'd have a hangout in the following week, but we put it off to this week so more people (notably you) would be around | 14:07 |
| bauzas | and for that, a synchronous call is fine by me | 14:07 |
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| bauzas | yeah that | 14:07 |
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| edleafe | cdent: heh, I figured you would do in that week precisely because I wouldn't be around! :) | 14:07 |
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| cdent | :) | 14:07 |
| bauzas | cdent: edleafe: either way, it's public by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/392569/ anyone can already give their opinion :) | 14:07 |
| cdent | I agree a summary doc would be nice. I think what we have instead are the etherpad and the review | 14:08 |
| bauzas | no need to open a ML thread since we have Gerrit :) | 14:08 |
| edleafe | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/392569/ | 14:08 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: cool. As long as there is _something_ written | 14:08 |
| bauzas | FWIW https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386242/6 is decoupled from the REST API change and can be rewieded as it is | 14:08 |
| bauzas | reviewed* | 14:08 |
| edleafe | So now we just need to find a time that works for most people? | 14:08 |
| bauzas | zactly | 14:09 |
| bauzas | that can be done in -nova | 14:09 |
| edleafe | yep | 14:09 |
| alex_xu | +1 for summary doc, there are too many discussion happened when i'm sleeping | 14:09 |
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| bauzas | once all interested parties are there | 14:09 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: stop sleeping so much!!! | 14:09 |
| edleafe | :) | 14:09 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: I remember some etherpad | 14:09 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: heh | 14:09 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: but I can surely highlight you when discussing on IRC so you can catch-up the day after by your proxy | 14:10 |
| edleafe | bauzas: so is that review current? Can we use that as our starting point? | 14:10 |
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| alex_xu | bauzas: thank you, that is cool! | 14:10 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: yup, as fresh as any fish recently snapped | 14:10 |
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| edleafe | mmmmmm.... fresh fish... | 14:10 |
| * bauzas wanted edleafe to be nostalgic from BCN | 14:11 | |
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| edleafe | I think we ate our way across BCN this past week | 14:11 |
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| edleafe | (and drank!) | 14:11 |
| bauzas | anyway, that's it for me: review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386242/6 and yell on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/392569/4 | 14:12 |
| edleafe | OK, so I'll try to herd all you cats to come up with a meeting time for a hangout | 14:12 |
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| edleafe | #action edleafe to organize a hangout that is at a time convenient to all involved | 14:12 |
| edleafe | Anything else? | 14:13 |
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| edleafe | #topic Opens | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Opens (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:14 | |
| edleafe | The floor is open. Anything else to discuss? | 14:14 |
| cdent | Just to again point out the newton leftovers: | 14:14 |
| cdent | #link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/placement-newton-leftovers | 14:14 |
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| cdent | I've started on some of those, and added links to the code that's being created. _gryr and macsz have said they are going to help out but there's plenty in there for others too | 14:15 |
| edleafe | OK, that sounds great | 14:15 |
| edleafe | Anything else? | 14:15 |
| cdent | sorry, _gryf | 14:15 |
| * cdent has his monday typing hands | 14:16 | |
| cdent | they not so good | 14:16 |
| bauzas | some custom resource class patches are in good hand | 14:16 |
| bauzas | but I had a question before +Wing the bottom one | 14:16 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: Link? | 14:17 |
| bauzas | edleafe: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/386843/ is having a question to jaypipes | 14:17 |
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| edleafe | thanks | 14:17 |
| bauzas | honestly, I think we're fine but I wanted to make sure that we can leave it as it is | 14:17 |
| bauzas | honestly not a big deal, if no answer by tonight my time, I'll +W and discuss that for a follow-up | 14:18 |
| edleafe | sounds like a good plan | 14:18 |
| edleafe | Anything else? | 14:18 |
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| edleafe | Otherwise we get to wrap up before bauzas has to leave! | 14:18 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I haven't forgotten your request to clarify my RequestSpec modification BP | 14:19 |
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| * edleafe has forgotten everything this past week | 14:19 | |
| edleafe | bauzas: ok, ping me when it's ready | 14:20 |
| bauzas | edleafe: given we're pretty close to spec freeze and given I sincerely hope that effort being specless, I'll try to provide that blueprint for the next nova meeting so mriedem could ack/nack | 14:20 |
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| edleafe | OK, anything else? | 14:20 |
| bauzas | edleafe: me was speaking of the internal RPC cleanup for passing the spec object down to the compute | 14:20 |
| bauzas | (and removing the old code for primitiving that to dict) | 14:21 |
| edleafe | yeah, let the objects handle that | 14:21 |
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| edleafe | So are we done? | 14:22 |
| cdent | looks like it | 14:22 |
| edleafe | Thanks, everyone! | 14:22 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:22 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 7 14:22:21 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-11-07-13.59.html | 14:22 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-11-07-13.59.txt | 14:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-11-07-13.59.log.html | 14:22 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting neutron_upgrades | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 7 15:00:43 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_upgrades' | 15:00 |
| electrocucaracha | o/ | 15:00 |
| korzen | hello | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | hey! | 15:01 |
| namnh | hi | 15:01 |
| asingh_ | Hi | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | I hope I haven't messed with a timezone? :) | 15:01 |
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| korzen | I have the same one | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | apparently not since you are all here ;) | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | friendly ping to jschwarz rossella_s | 15:02 |
| ihrachys | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Upgrades-Subteam | 15:02 |
| johndperkins | o/ | 15:02 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 15:02 |
| * ihrachys waves at jaypipes and johndperkins | 15:02 | |
| jaypipes | shitbuckets, I've been caught by daylight savings... | 15:02 |
| ihrachys | haha! | 15:02 |
| johndperkins | hi ihrachys | 15:02 |
| ihrachys | timezones suck | 15:03 |
| korzen | utc for everyone | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:03 | |
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| ihrachys | as you all are probably aware, we had a lively lovely summit two weeks ago. there will be a separate section for the report later in the meeting. | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | we approach Ocata-1 in a week or two | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | #link https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | not that it usually means much... :) | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | #topic Barcelona Summit | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona Summit (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:05 | |
| ihrachys | we had an interesting discussion on neutron-server next steps that significantly touched upgrades | 15:06 |
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| ihrachys | the etherpad of the design session is... | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-neutron-server-next | 15:06 |
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| ihrachys | I expanded on it somewhat with a report in openstack-dev@ | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/106684.html | 15:06 |
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| ihrachys | for our matters, the following is important | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | 1. we agreed that in Ocata we forbid contract migrations | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | #action ihrachys to send a patch forbidding contract migrations | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | 2. the first candidate for in-runtime data migration using OVOs in tree will be the new port bindings rework by andreas_s needed for nova-neutron integration of live migration procedures | 15:08 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: when was the last time that someone submitted a contract patch? | 15:08 |
| ihrachys | there is a spec by Andreas at: | 15:08 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/309416/ | 15:08 |
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| ihrachys | it would be wise to review that proposal in scope of OVO application | 15:09 |
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| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: Newton? | 15:09 |
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| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: nevermind, I can check the history | 15:10 |
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| ihrachys | there was a cross-project (ops) session on upgrades tags and next steps | 15:10 |
| ihrachys | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-xp-upgrades | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | there, several things are worth mentioning | 15:11 |
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| ihrachys | first, ops propose defining new upgrades related tags for projects | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | basically, multiple levels of upgrades scenario support | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | starting from two existing ones (supports-upgrades and supports-rolling-upgrades) and going further to no-api-downtime tag, and no-api-impact one | 15:12 |
| ihrachys | for our case, the most interesting is the no-api-downtime one for now | 15:12 |
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| ihrachys | the tag requires both technical possibility of upgrading API endpoints without downtime | 15:13 |
| ihrachys | as well as CI coverage for that | 15:13 |
| ihrachys | sadly, there was not much time on the session to discuss about specific gating strategy for thta | 15:13 |
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| ihrachys | but the main point is: other projects are also looking at gating for that (nova, glance, cinder, ...) | 15:13 |
| ihrachys | so we may need to join efforts | 15:14 |
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| ihrachys | so, to wrap up, things we are to deliver this cycle are: 1. forbidden contractions (easy) 2. live data migration for whatever features are in the review pipeline (not much since Ocata is short and tight) | 15:15 |
| ihrachys | then there is 3. CI coverage for no-api-downtime | 15:15 |
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| ihrachys | of course, there is still 4. ongoing switch to OVOs | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | that one is last but not least, of course | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | are folks still with me? :) | 15:16 |
| korzen | yeap | 15:16 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: what about priorities? | 15:16 |
| * jschwarz waves at ihrachys | 15:17 | |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: priorities for what exactly? | 15:17 |
| ihrachys | if you mean if OVO and related work gets a priority for Ocata, yes, it does | 15:17 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: number 2 and 3? | 15:17 |
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| ihrachys | as well as a handful of other features that were mostly on track in Newton already. | 15:18 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: it's important but, it's for next release? | 15:18 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: I think 2. is definitely a high priority if there is work to do | 15:18 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: no, we definitely deliver 2. in Ocata. | 15:18 |
| ihrachys | CI coverage... depending on how close we are (the setup may be not easy to achieve), so it may spill over into Pike | 15:18 |
| korzen | I guess that CI is cross project activity | 15:19 |
| korzen | we need to setup the devstack-gate | 15:19 |
| korzen | and neutron do not own it | 15:19 |
| ihrachys | to set an order, that would be 1. forbid contractions 2. OVO transition and support for features in the pipeline 3/4. other OVO work. 3/4. CI coverage for no-api-downtime (depending on cross-project progress) | 15:20 |
| ihrachys | right, it's cross project | 15:20 |
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| ihrachys | (which does not mean we can't make a tangible contribution to make it happen) | 15:20 |
| ihrachys | it is definitely not in our full control | 15:21 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: got it, thanks | 15:21 |
| ihrachys | so we will probably be lead in a way | 15:21 |
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| ihrachys | to close the topic of summit, there was a session from korzen on live data upgrades technics | 15:23 |
| ihrachys | but I struggle to find it | 15:23 |
| ihrachys | korzen: have a link? | 15:23 |
| sshank | ihrachys, This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juunf0u4cyo | 15:24 |
| ihrachys | sshank: thanks! | 15:24 |
| ihrachys | full disclosure: I haven't personally had a chance to watch it just yet, but I trust it's good sauce ;) | 15:24 |
| korzen | sshank, thanks, I was looking to it ;) | 15:24 |
| ihrachys | anything more to update on the summit? any questions from those not lucky enough to join it? | 15:25 |
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| ihrachys | ok let's move on then :) | 15:26 |
| ihrachys | #topic Partial Multinode Grenade | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Partial Multinode Grenade (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:26 | |
| ihrachys | I know some folks were playing with grenade locally the previous weeks. | 15:26 |
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| ihrachys | I also think that jschwarz once told me he will have some cycles to make progress on linuxbridge multinode grenade job | 15:27 |
| ihrachys | any news on any of those? | 15:27 |
| jschwarz | ihrachys, not yet | 15:27 |
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| jschwarz | sadly my last few weeks were spend on travelling and Israeli Holidays | 15:27 |
| jschwarz | I'm gonna try and dedicate some cycles for this in the coming weeks | 15:28 |
| ihrachys | OSIC folks playing with grenade, anything to share? questions? concerns? results? :) | 15:28 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: in my case, I couldn't find an issue to analyze and also I was traveling | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | jschwarz: you know I won't leave you free anymore ;) | 15:28 |
| jschwarz | ihrachys, I'm counting on it ;) | 15:29 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: ok. I assume you were trying to set it locally? | 15:30 |
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| ihrachys | maybe it's an easier path for the start to just analyze logs from the gate. at least to classify what fails. | 15:30 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: but that was my point I could find a failure gate | 15:31 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: anyway, we can address that offline | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: you would need to 'check experimental' for that. | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: sure let's take it offline | 15:32 |
| ihrachys | #topic Object implementation | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Object implementation (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:32 | |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron+branch:master+topic:bp/adopt-oslo-versioned-objects-for-db | 15:32 |
| ihrachys | there is a lot of stuff in the queue, thanks for folks producing the patches | 15:33 |
| ihrachys | I should be back on track with reviews this week | 15:33 |
| korzen | me too | 15:33 |
| ndahiwade | ihrachys: korzen: Could you take a look at this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370452/? | 15:33 |
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| ihrachys | also, armax and I think Kevin told me they will help with those patches. but I believe they will need a first vote from me or someone more involved in the effort, so the ball is in our park. | 15:33 |
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| ndahiwade | ihrachys: korzen: getting this error http://paste.openstack.org/show/588264/ | 15:34 |
| ihrachys | ndahiwade: looking. seems like failing in CI with legit failures? | 15:34 |
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| ndahiwade | It's here https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/tests/unit/objects/test_base.py#L1338 | 15:35 |
| ndahiwade | The assertfalse doesn't expect the synthetic field to be loaded? | 15:35 |
| ihrachys | ndahiwade: I believe the check assumes that the parent object does have an empty synthetic field | 15:36 |
| ihrachys | meaning, no actual child is created | 15:36 |
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| ihrachys | then the test case goes and creates a child, and does some more checks on the field | 15:36 |
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| ihrachys | so the initial state of the test case should be an empty synthetic field, and it's apparently not the case | 15:37 |
| korzen | I remember working on it some weeks ago | 15:37 |
| ihrachys | I also see some irrelevant (reverting?) changes in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370452/22/neutron/tests/unit/objects/test_base.py | 15:38 |
| korzen | but I could not remember in that moment what was the issue here | 15:38 |
| ndahiwade | ihrachys: thanks, do I need to tweak the UT to make it pass? | 15:39 |
| ihrachys | ndahiwade: I don't think you should change the test case failing | 15:39 |
| ndahiwade | or any other approach? | 15:39 |
| ihrachys | ndahiwade: but you also touch some other test cases. I don't think that's what you want?.. | 15:39 |
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| ihrachys | and in other files too | 15:40 |
| ihrachys | I think there is some issue with the rebase for the patch that you have | 15:40 |
| ndahiwade | ihrachys: yes I don't need those...may be it's the rebase..yes | 15:41 |
| korzen | from what I remember, the synthetic field can be empty but this UT is not taking it into account. I had to created some special filtering and exception mechanism in UT to make it pass, covering for specific scenario | 15:41 |
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| ndahiwade | korzen: Do you have a patch I could refer to? | 15:41 |
| ihrachys | korzen: ndahiwade: I think it's line 42 in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370452/22/neutron/tests/unit/objects/test_network.py | 15:41 |
| ihrachys | see that you create an agent there | 15:41 |
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| korzen | unfortunately not :( | 15:42 |
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| ihrachys | so the initial state of the test case will be - the object having a non-empty field for the agent | 15:42 |
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| ihrachys | the test case is apparently not ready for that | 15:42 |
| ihrachys | netsplit just happened or what?.. | 15:42 |
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| ihrachys | I see folks dropped from the channel | 15:42 |
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| korzen | maybe | 15:43 |
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| ndahiwade | ihrachys:should I create the test_agent outside the loop? I have composite primary key...so need to create both | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | I think that's a test only issue that ndahiwade sees. it may actually require the test case to be tweaked somehow to allow for existing childen. | 15:44 |
| ihrachys | that said, I am not sure exposing the agent as an object field is a good idea itself; we may need to take it to gerrit. | 15:44 |
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| ihrachys | ndahiwade: yeah, I understand that you need an agent to pass db constraints. | 15:44 |
| korzen | ndahiwade, I will take a look tomorrow | 15:44 |
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| ihrachys | ndahiwade: would it work if you just convert the agent field into a single UUID field agent_id? | 15:45 |
| ndahiwade | ihrachys: koraen: Sure Thanks:) | 15:45 |
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| ndahiwade | *korzen | 15:45 |
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| ndahiwade | I integration needs a synthetic field | 15:45 |
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| ndahiwade | It expects the entire object to be loaded | 15:45 |
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| ihrachys | ndahiwade: where exactly is it? | 15:47 |
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| ihrachys | oh that query builder in get_dhcp_agents_hosting_networks? | 15:47 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370452/22/neutron/db/agentschedulers_db.py | 15:47 |
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| ihrachys | anyhoo, we would need to dive into the review on gerrit to have a deep discussion | 15:48 |
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| ihrachys | thanks for bringing that up! | 15:48 |
| ndahiwade | ihrachys: https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/db/agentschedulers_db.py#L462-L465 | 15:48 |
| ihrachys | ack | 15:49 |
| ndahiwade | ihrachys: Sure thanks | 15:49 |
| ihrachys | #topic Other patches on review | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other patches on review (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:49 | |
| ihrachys | the spec for no-api-downtime upgrades is still on review: https://review.openstack.org/386685 | 15:49 |
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| korzen | I wanted to bring up the standard attr id | 15:49 |
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| ihrachys | korzen: let's do in open discussion | 15:50 |
| korzen | ok | 15:50 |
| ihrachys | folks who have not yet reviewed the spec, please do | 15:51 |
| ihrachys | I am not aware of any more upgrades patches that could hit us | 15:51 |
| ihrachys | so let's go straight to korzen's stuff | 15:52 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open Discussion | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:52 | |
| ihrachys | korzen: your floor | 15:52 |
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| korzen | so I have discussed using the standard-attr-id with someone | 15:52 |
| korzen | the case is: in some usage scenarios, we need to access the standard-attr-id | 15:53 |
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| korzen | but we do not have StandardAttr OVO | 15:53 |
| korzen | we use the declarative way of adding the field | 15:53 |
| korzen | fields | 15:53 |
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| ihrachys | we can in theory have a detached (not linked to other objects) OVO for that | 15:54 |
| ihrachys | would it work? | 15:54 |
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| korzen | so the point is: should we add it to standard-attr-id to every resource that is using it? | 15:54 |
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| korzen | it would require to update the versions of all objects | 15:55 |
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| korzen | currently it is used for port I guesss | 15:55 |
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| ihrachys | I don't think. can't we have a detached OVO for that that will receive the ID of the object that it belongs to? | 15:55 |
| ihrachys | or you think more of loading it optimally from db_obj? | 15:56 |
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| ihrachys | we could prolly have a method that would return a StandardAttrObject by extracting it from db_obj | 15:56 |
| korzen | Iguess that the detached OVo would be goof | 15:56 |
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| korzen | good* | 15:56 |
| sshank | ihrachys, As an example, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/361303/22/neutron/db/provisioning_blocks.py@174 Ports model has the Standard attr Id but object doesn't. So to have this detached OVO, stand attr OVO is needed? | 15:57 |
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| korzen | sshank, thanks, that was the case | 15:58 |
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| * electrocucaracha is back | 15:58 | |
| ihrachys | oh I think I get what you mean. you want to get_objects(standard_attr_id=...) | 15:59 |
| ihrachys | it would work I believe if we would pass thru the filter | 15:59 |
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| ihrachys | or is there anything more? | 15:59 |
| korzen | ihrachys, it is rather returning the id | 15:59 |
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| korzen | not knowing it ahead | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | ok, we may need a simple OVO or even just a method returning the ID | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | anyhow, we are tight on time, so let's proceed on the gerrit | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | thanks everyone for joining! | 16:00 |
| korzen | ok | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
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| korzen | thanks | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 7 16:00:46 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-11-07-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-11-07-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-11-07-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| ndahiwade | Thanks | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 7 16:00:59 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja_at_home. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| electrocucaracha | thanks | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:01 | |
| sshank | Thanks. | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | thx ihrachys :) | 16:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:01 |
| gcb | o/ | 16:01 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 16:01 |
| *** electrocucaracha has left #openstack-meeting-alt | 16:01 | |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dims | 16:01 |
| dasanind_ | thanks | 16:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 16:01 |
| amrith | ./ | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, gcb, GheRivero, haypo | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for HenryG, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for lifeless, lintan, lxsli, Nakato, ozamiatin, rbradfor, redrobot | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for rpodolyaka, sergmelikyan, sileht, spamaps, sreshetnyak, sreshetnyak, stevemar | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | hola! | 16:01 |
| HenryG | o/ | 16:01 |
| amrith | hello harlowja_at_home | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | (maybe we should do the whole meeting in spanish?) | 16:01 |
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| bknudson | hi | 16:01 |
| johnsom | Hola | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | ha | 16:02 |
| gcb | lol, I can't read spanish | 16:02 |
| bknudson | buenos dias | 16:02 |
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| harlowja_at_home | como estas | 16:02 |
| amrith | Yo no hablo español | 16:02 |
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| harlowja_at_home | gcb, me either :-P | 16:02 |
| dims | hey y'all | 16:02 |
| amrith | Pero puedo usar google translate | 16:03 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:03 | |
| amrith | nothing from trove | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 16:03 |
| harlowja_at_home | so its been a little while, any new red flags from folks :) | 16:03 |
| blogan | o? | 16:03 |
| blogan | o/ | 16:03 |
| harlowja_at_home | johnsom, do u still have any red flag? | 16:03 |
| gcb | nova have one http://logs.openstack.org/periodic/periodic-nova-py27-with-oslo-master/6235dad/testr_results.html.gz | 16:03 |
| johnsom | Nothing to report here | 16:03 |
| bknudson | no red flags from keystone tha tI know of. | 16:03 |
| johnsom | Nope, the global change cleared up our issue | 16:03 |
| gcb | I didn't have time to dig today | 16:03 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb, thanks, i'll see if i can look through what might of caused that | 16:04 |
| gcb | harlowja_at_home, thanks | 16:04 |
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| bknudson | periodic jobs getting stuff done! | 16:05 |
| harlowja_at_home | http://status.openstack.org/openstack-health/#/?groupKey=build_name&resolutionKey=hour&searchProject=-with-oslo doesn't look to super either, if anyone wants to help investigate why some of those are acting up | 16:05 |
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| harlowja_at_home | i think all jobs are showing up there again, they weren't showing up some time ago, lol | 16:06 |
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| harlowja_at_home | though seems to be similar to '"testtools.matchers._impl.MismatchError: '200 OK' != '401 Unauthorized'"' | 16:06 |
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| harlowja_at_home | which might be something oslo.middleware | 16:06 |
| harlowja_at_home | so cinder might be affected by the same gcb | 16:07 |
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| johnsom | Ours have cleared up after the global change, fyi | 16:07 |
| harlowja_at_home | i'll have to ask the glance folks whats up with http://logs.openstack.org/periodic/periodic-glance-py27-with-oslo-master/b4a278f/console.html#_2016-11-07_06_19_23_225309 (looks unrelated) | 16:07 |
| harlowja_at_home | ir http://logs.openstack.org/periodic/periodic-glance-py27-with-oslo-master/b4a278f/console.html#_2016-11-07_06_19_21_594028 | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | johnsom, great :) | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | glance seems to be acting up, ha | 16:08 |
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| harlowja_at_home | anyone interested in looking into those, feel free, otherwise I'll try to also :) | 16:09 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Releases of the week | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases of the week (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:09 | |
| harlowja_at_home | so just wanted to see what people would like released (after the above issues are looked into) | 16:09 |
| harlowja_at_home | anything specific from folks? | 16:09 |
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| harlowja_at_home | going once | 16:11 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ok, i'll just get our a batch release then after those current periodic issues get looked into :) | 16:11 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #topic Summit recaps | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit recaps (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:12 | |
| harlowja_at_home | so thanks all of you who showed up in BCN :) | 16:12 |
| harlowja_at_home | for those that didn't i've been slowly writing some of the things to do to the ML | 16:12 |
| harlowja_at_home | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads#Oslo | 16:13 |
| harlowja_at_home | ^ sessions and such we held | 16:13 |
| harlowja_at_home | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/106609.html (one of the ML recaps) | 16:13 |
| harlowja_at_home | and http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/106680.html | 16:14 |
| harlowja_at_home | i'll send out a couple more i think (of things to do for oslo) but for now I think amrith has one such topic (related to summit also) | 16:14 |
| harlowja_at_home | amrith, you ready??!? | 16:14 |
| amrith | yes, was just warming up my voice | 16:14 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Oslo.messaging anddddd amrith | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo.messaging anddddd amrith (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:15 | |
| harlowja_at_home | ok all yours :) | 16:15 |
| amrith | the topic I have relates to oslo.messaging and adding a level of message security. | 16:15 |
| amrith | I summarized some thoughts in an etherpad | 16:15 |
| amrith | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/secure-oslo-messaging | 16:15 |
| amrith | here is the TLDR | 16:15 |
| amrith | for this meeting | 16:15 |
| amrith | what am I looking for (at this stage) | 16:15 |
| amrith | - do we believe that it is still interesting to oslo to support message signing and verification for oslo_messaging/rpc | 16:15 |
| amrith | - are we ok with an approach where oslo_messaging/rpc provides a framework for consumers to define the signer and verifier, and not directly perform the signing and verification | 16:15 |
| amrith | If the answers to the above two questions are both YES, then I think we have a set of things that we can discuss. If the answer to either is NO, then I think we have to address those issues first. | 16:15 |
| * amrith shuts up | 16:16 | |
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| amrith | (for now, for those of you who thought this was permanent; sorry to dissapoint you :)) | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | wasn't some work already done on this topic? | 16:16 |
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| amrith | dhellmann, yes | 16:16 |
| amrith | a lot of work was done | 16:16 |
| bknudson | there was a whole kite project done by redhat. | 16:16 |
| amrith | the primary difference was that in past iterations (referenced in the etherpad) | 16:16 |
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| bknudson | which was for the distribution of the keys | 16:17 |
| amrith | the burden was placed on oslo.messaging to do the signing | 16:17 |
| amrith | and key management | 16:17 |
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| amrith | a fundamental difference with my proposal is that I'm looking at oslo.messaging to be merely a framework that allos the consumer to do the signing and verification | 16:17 |
| amrith | allows the consumer to register a callback that will be invoked when the full message is ready | 16:17 |
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| amrith | and will invoke a callback on each message received | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | and what's this ultimately going to be used for? | 16:17 |
| amrith | this makes the implementation (in oslo) much simpler. | 16:17 |
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| amrith | dhellmann, I summarized it in the therpad | 16:18 |
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| amrith | etherpad | 16:18 |
| amrith | but the basic idea is this | 16:18 |
| amrith | for projects with service vm's | 16:18 |
| amrith | there are transport credentials on the service vm | 16:18 |
| amrith | if the service vm is compromised | 16:18 |
| amrith | then the transport credentials are compromised | 16:18 |
| harlowja_at_home | johnsom, may also be useful for octavia (if this converges) - fyi | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | ok, I think my position is unchanged that the service vms shouldn't be connecting to the bus anyway | 16:18 |
| amrith | and one could conceivably have a person generate bogus messages | 16:18 |
| sileht | dhellmann, I agree | 16:19 |
| amrith | dhellmann, they do today. several projects have that construct. in any event, hypervisor escapes are also known to occur | 16:19 |
| amrith | and that would mean that a hypervisor escape would put a nova compute at risk | 16:19 |
| johnsom | harlowja_at_home Hmm, not sure. As I mentioned in the session, we use two-way SSL with our service VM agents. | 16:19 |
| dhellmann | the service vm should have a rest api and use keystone to protect it | 16:19 |
| amrith | dhellmann, where would the service vm get keystone credentials? | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | johnsom, oh ya, nearly forgot :) | 16:20 |
| amrith | at the end of the day, someone has to store credentials on the service vm | 16:20 |
| amrith | credentials of some kind | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | amrith : it shouldn't need them if all of the calls are incoming | 16:20 |
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| amrith | but they aren't | 16:20 |
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| johnsom | Basically what dhellmann said, but without the keystone part. | 16:20 |
| amrith | some are merely status reporting | 16:20 |
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| bnemec | I thought we had this discussion a long time ago and agreed that Zaqar (then Marconi, I think?) was the right way for service vms to do messaging. | 16:21 |
| bknudson | even incoming calls need the some service user credential to validate tokens | 16:21 |
| amrith | bnemec, the problem is the same with any mechanism; so long as a transport has credentials, someone needs to generate them | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: ah, good point | 16:21 |
| amrith | or store them | 16:21 |
| amrith | but that's where PKI makes things better | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | bknudson : though if the only permission that user has is to check the validity of other credentials, it's low risk | 16:22 |
| amrith | it allows the client to at least identify itself in a manner that can be verified by the control plane | 16:22 |
| sileht | But the servicevm can have it's own credential and use trust to authentic with the user one | 16:22 |
| amrith | and the blast crater can be limited to that particular service vm | 16:22 |
| bknudson | yes, we could give that user only access to validate tokens | 16:22 |
| sileht | (like heat does) | 16:22 |
| bknudson | also, given a token it should be able to validate itself. | 16:22 |
| amrith | so, what y'all are proposing is a solution where service vm's don't talk to the messaging infrastructure | 16:23 |
| bknudson | so maybe no service user would be necessary. It just is now because that's how auth_token works. | 16:23 |
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| amrith | first let me point out that the control plane is NOT the openstack control plane | 16:23 |
| amrith | it is the trove cntrol plane | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | amrith : right. instructions should be incoming. "tell me your status" is an instruction. | 16:23 |
| amrith | which is by choice not the same as the openstack control plane | 16:23 |
| amrith | therefore all we're looking for is a mechanism to make that control plane safer. | 16:24 |
| amrith | sorry dhellmann that is polling | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | yes, it is | 16:24 |
| amrith | but when a db fails, we want the guest to tell the control plane | 16:24 |
| amrith | how frequently would you like to poll? | 16:24 |
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| amrith | we already register for notifications from db's to get informed of state changes | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | how about an unprivileged web hook with no data that just means "you need to ask me my status" | 16:25 |
| amrith | having 'tell me your status' be polling defeats the whole purpose. | 16:25 |
| * harlowja_at_home starts to wish we had something like etcd (so that it could be used to avoid said polling) | 16:25 | |
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| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home : you still have to secure that. the whole point of saying connections are only incoming is to have the rest of the infrastructure drive the service vm, and to treat it as hostile and insecure until proven otherwise | 16:26 |
| harlowja_at_home | https://coreos.com/etcd/docs/latest/api.html#waiting-for-a-change (such a thing could be used for this) | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | amrith : you may need to have this discussion with SpamapS' new arch wg | 16:26 |
| johnsom | dhellmann +1 | 16:26 |
| amrith | dhellmann, all of these are approaches, and by no means the only ones, to avoid the problem. is the feeling that (a) projects shouldn't be using service vm's that connect to the control plane, and (b) oslo isn't interested in message signing for RPC? | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | my memory is that adding signing to rpc caused serious performance issues, so it was turned off | 16:27 |
| harlowja_at_home | (c) undecided | 16:27 |
| amrith | dhellmann, it would cause performance issues if we turned it on for everything and everybody | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | if it's only for some messages, that may mitigate it, but I don't think we ever envisioned the messaging lib being used for talking to untrusted nodes | 16:27 |
| amrith | but we are able to turn it on for those who care about it. | 16:27 |
| amrith | so, if I understand correctly, octavia has full blown client authenticaed ssl | 16:28 |
| amrith | other projects have their own solutions | 16:28 |
| harlowja_at_home | johnsom, ^ | 16:28 |
| * harlowja_at_home starting to feel we may need to go talk with the arch-wg, then get some consensus on the ML (or at a future meeting)? | 16:29 | |
| johnsom | Correct, we issue unique certs to each service VM at boot and manage renewal | 16:29 |
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| amrith | we would be creating keypairs, not going full blown ssl | 16:29 |
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| amrith | so, what does the team feel? to my two questions ... | 16:31 |
| amrith | - do we believe that it is still interesting to oslo to support message signing and verification for oslo_messaging/rpc | 16:31 |
| amrith | - are we ok with an approach where oslo_messaging/rpc provides a framework for consumers to define the signer and verifier, and not directly perform the signing and verification | 16:31 |
| amrith | if the answers are no and no, that's fine. just let me know | 16:32 |
| harlowja_at_home | i'm personally ok with it, i don't think the 2 things above need to be tied into whether the choice is right for trove to be doing this (or if it should do this or...) | 16:33 |
| harlowja_at_home | but my guess is others believe differently :) | 16:33 |
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| dhellmann | I'd be afraid that adding the feature would encourage more anti-patterns like this, but I don't object strongly enough to -2 it | 16:34 |
| amrith | So, in the answer of an answer of 'yes' I'm going to assume that the answer is 'no' and look for other alternatives. if that's not the case, please let me know. | 16:34 |
| sileht | personaly I don't see the point to add hook when we can do the same without hook | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | that's also a good point | 16:35 |
| amrith | sileht, that's not true; it is not the same with a decorator | 16:35 |
| amrith | upgrade and cross release issues are MUCH easier if this is handled at a level below the project. | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | sileht, do you mean by not using oslo.messaging (and switching to rest?) | 16:35 |
| amrith | if it is up to the project, with decorators, then the case of a client without the code to handle a signature will fail | 16:35 |
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| amrith | because of the extra parameter. | 16:35 |
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| amrith | no harlowja_at_home he's talking about using a decorator as I had illustrated in the ML | 16:36 |
| sileht | harlowja_at_home, about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394389/ | 16:36 |
| amrith | the issue with that is that to handle it in the consumer (trove) signature will have to be a parameter in kwargs | 16:36 |
| amrith | and that means that a client without the code to handle it would barf at the extra parameter | 16:37 |
| harlowja_at_home | ah, haven't seen that one yet, created this morning, ha | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | if you aren't doing versioning of that api, you already have a problem trying to change it in any way | 16:37 |
| amrith | dhellmann, this isn't about versioning an API | 16:37 |
| amrith | this is about allowing coexistance | 16:37 |
| amrith | and allowing a version that has no support understand a message that has an extra parameter | 16:37 |
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| sileht | amrith, that what oslo.messaging version is for | 16:38 |
| amrith | and this isn't an API, this is every RPC call. | 16:38 |
| sileht | the decorator version is an API change while the hooks version is not | 16:38 |
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| amrith | sileht, your @verifier is the thing that pops the signature | 16:39 |
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| amrith | what happens to a server with no @verifier? | 16:40 |
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| amrith | are you suggesting that we must use version caps on a per guest basis? | 16:40 |
| sileht | amrith: you have to use version | 16:40 |
| amrith | in the service vm context, that is infeasible | 16:40 |
| amrith | you cannot require an operator to upgrade all guest database instances at the same time in order to upgrade the control plane | 16:40 |
| dhellmann | are you not going to be signing the messages sent from the control plane to the service vm? | 16:41 |
| amrith | yes | 16:41 |
| amrith | absolutely | 16:41 |
| amrith | that's the prime attack vector | 16:41 |
| amrith | one compromised service vm telling another one to go shut itself down, for example. | 16:41 |
| dhellmann | so how are you going to handle that upgrade case? | 16:41 |
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| amrith | if the code is in oslo.messaging, then a guest who doesn't have the code will receive a signature and the old oslo.messaging will just ignore it. | 16:42 |
| amrith | that is a luxury of having the verification (or at least the dispatch of verification) being in dispatch | 16:42 |
| amrith | and where the signature is not an argument | 16:42 |
| amrith | if the code is in the consumer (trove) then all I can do is insert a signature as an argument to the API call | 16:43 |
| dhellmann | right, so that's why I brought up API versioning. Because you have this one case where you can put the thing into the library and "hide" the change, but you won't be able to do that for all cases. | 16:43 |
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| amrith | so we can handle this in the consumer by adding a signature parameter to all API calls | 16:44 |
| amrith | literally all API calls | 16:44 |
| harlowja_at_home | amrith dhellmann sileht do the three (and more?) want to continue on this perhaps in #openstack-oslo seems like we may not reach consensus just yet :) | 16:44 |
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| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home : good idea | 16:44 |
| amrith | and in the version that supports signatures, remove it. | 16:44 |
| amrith | seems a bit much | 16:44 |
| amrith | harlowja_at_home, it seems like we are at a decision | 16:45 |
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| amrith | and the answer seems to be that consumer projects like trove should handle this with api versioning. | 16:45 |
| harlowja_at_home | ok, whats the ruling :-P | 16:45 |
| amrith | and hooks/decorators. | 16:45 |
| amrith | I'm happy with that decision, just let me know. | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | or not using rpc at all :-) | 16:46 |
| sileht | dhellmann: ++ | 16:46 |
| amrith | or not using rpc calls for this. | 16:46 |
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| amrith | which is a much bigger project, but sure, it is a feasible solution. | 16:46 |
| amrith | fyi dhellmann this is not restricted to projects with service vm's. | 16:47 |
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| harlowja_at_home | okie dokie, amrith do u mind sending out a conclusion to the ML, to at least distribute this decision? | 16:47 |
| amrith | with a hypervisor escape, one can compromise the openstack control plane | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | amrith : sure | 16:47 |
| amrith | harlowja_at_home, sure thing | 16:48 |
| amrith | will do that. | 16:48 |
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| harlowja_at_home | amrith, thanks :) | 16:48 |
| harlowja_at_home | alright next topic | 16:48 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic OpenStack goals | 16:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack goals (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:48 | |
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| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, the mic is yours :) | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | ah, thanks | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | as you all know, the goal this cycle is to move off of incubated code to the libraries | 16:49 |
| harlowja_at_home | #link https://governance.openstack.org/goals/ocata/remove-incubated-oslo-code.html | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | we have a relatively small number of projects with work to do on that regard | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | projects have already started, and the patches should all be visible on this report | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:goal-remove-incubated-oslo-code+is:open | 16:49 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, do these eventually show up in https://governance.openstack.org/goals/ocata/remove-incubated-oslo-code.html#project-teams ? | 16:49 |
| harlowja_at_home | under 'Completion Artifacts'? | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | I, and I'm sure the other project folks, would appreciate help with reviews of those changes | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home : usually the artifacts will be links to bugs or blueprints, though some projects have added links to the patches | 16:50 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:50 |
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| dhellmann | so, when you have time, it would help the community a bit to do some of those reviews in case folks get stuck on transitions in any way | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | harlowja : that's all I had, thanks for giving me the slot on the agenda | 16:51 |
| harlowja_at_home | sounds good to me, the last of the last of the last of that cleanup :) | 16:51 |
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| harlowja_at_home | cool, thanks dhellmann | 16:51 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #topic Open discussion | 16:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:52 | |
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| harlowja_at_home | so just a few other tiny links to share | 16:52 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #link https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | and #link https://releases.openstack.org/ocata/schedule.html | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | keep those in mind (for folks reviewing, doing changes...) | 16:52 |
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| harlowja_at_home | Jan 16-20 isn't that far away :) | 16:53 |
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| harlowja_at_home | (Final release for non-client libraries) | 16:53 |
| harlowja_at_home | especially if people go on vacations and ... | 16:53 |
| harlowja_at_home | in fact, damn that's really not that far away, lol | 16:53 |
| * harlowja_at_home that's all i had | 16:54 | |
| bknudson | this release will consist mostly of requirements changes and switching asserts | 16:54 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:54 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:54 |
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| harlowja_at_home | and cleanups of some sorta | 16:55 |
| harlowja_at_home | *sort | 16:55 |
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| harlowja_at_home | alright, guess we can end 4 minutes early, since doesn't seem like anyone else has any open discussions :) | 16:56 |
| harlowja_at_home | thanks amrith dhellmann sileht and others for the insightful discussion around messaging :) | 16:56 |
| harlowja_at_home | as always #openstack-oslo for more fun! :) | 16:57 |
| amrith | thx harlowja_at_home | 16:57 |
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| amrith | oh, one question if we are in open discussion | 16:57 |
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| harlowja_at_home | 3 minutes :-P | 16:57 |
| amrith | if the world comes to an end tomorrow, does oslo have any special plans :) | 16:57 |
| harlowja_at_home | ha | 16:57 |
| harlowja_at_home | move everyone to canada? | 16:58 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:58 |
| harlowja_at_home | i'm thinking i might like vancouver more and more | 16:58 |
| kgiusti | unless canada builds a wall... | 16:58 |
| harlowja_at_home | ha | 16:58 |
| amrith | sure, just follow me y'all ;) | 16:58 |
| harlowja_at_home | oh, ya, and get out and vote (plllease, especially those in battleground states) :) | 16:59 |
| harlowja_at_home | (for those in US) | 16:59 |
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| amrith | everyone should ... | 16:59 |
| amrith | "vote early, vote often" | 16:59 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 17:00 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 7 17:00:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-11-07-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-11-07-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-11-07-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | bbiab | 17:00 |
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| dguitarbite | Hello | 18:31 |
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| rluethi | hi dguitarbite | 18:33 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: Hi | 18:33 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: Do you want to have the meeting now? Or we just catch up later on? | 18:33 |
| rluethi | let's discuss current affairs real quick :). | 18:34 |
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| dguitarbite | #startmeeting training-labs | 18:34 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 7 18:34:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dguitarbite. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:34 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-labs)" | 18:35 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'training_labs' | 18:35 |
| dguitarbite | #topic quick overview | 18:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "quick overview (Meeting topic: training-labs)" | 18:35 | |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: Hi | 18:35 |
| rluethi | hi dguitarbite | 18:35 |
| dguitarbite | Let us go though it. | 18:35 |
| rluethi | some patches still up needing review. | 18:35 |
| dguitarbite | Ok. | 18:36 |
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| dguitarbite | Last I checked it was Saturday. | 18:36 |
| dguitarbite | *I did not get enough time since Saturday. | 18:36 |
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| rluethi | patches have been up for over a week. | 18:37 |
| dguitarbite | Checking now. | 18:37 |
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| dguitarbite | Yes, I need to test them. I spent more time fixing the bug last week. I will give it some time in the next days. | 18:37 |
| dguitarbite | Any news on the Python port? | 18:38 |
| rluethi | Okay. | 18:38 |
| rluethi | Python port: I did spend some time fixing the bugs in Liberty as well :). And I took last weekend off. | 18:38 |
| rluethi | So it looks like something might be forthcoming next weekend. | 18:39 |
| dguitarbite | :) | 18:39 |
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| dguitarbite | Sounds good. I will also keep my weekend free. We could do some discussions/pair-programming. | 18:39 |
| rluethi | k | 18:39 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: Is is possible to SSH into one of your machines? | 18:39 |
| rluethi | No. What for? | 18:40 |
| dguitarbite | For pair-programming. | 18:40 |
| dguitarbite | I could setup one of my machines for this but I would like to have the commits on your name. | 18:40 |
| dguitarbite | But it is not critical to have. | 18:40 |
| rluethi | Let's just do a reasonably clean python commit and then pile on top of that. | 18:41 |
| dguitarbite | Ok. | 18:41 |
| rluethi | as long as we don't break osbash, we should be good. | 18:41 |
| dguitarbite | The parser was kind of stand still since I had some commitments this weekend and spent some time bug fixing and re-basing the patches. | 18:42 |
| dguitarbite | I should get it anytime, may be also over the weekend I guess. | 18:42 |
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| rluethi | Yeah, I pulled the parser repo a couple of times and notices a distinct lack of updates. | 18:43 |
| rluethi | So, we both have our work cut out for us. | 18:43 |
| rluethi | Busy weekend. | 18:43 |
| dguitarbite | Yes, you should see one last furstrating update. I also need to push more commits for creating the rst2bash repo upstream, governance changes, changes to the labs release model and update the website to remove liberty and add Newton. | 18:44 |
| dguitarbite | Also test Newton on Windows7, and linux with vbox & kvm. | 18:44 |
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| dguitarbite | I will ping Julen later today|this week and get some help from him too. | 18:44 |
| dguitarbite | Also I have to fix it for Windows 10 ;). | 18:44 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: Alive? | 18:46 |
| rluethi | I'd keep Liberty for a while, it seems that some people are still doing training on that (as we learned last week). | 18:46 |
| dguitarbite | Ok, I will add Newton on top and mention Liberty-EOL. | 18:46 |
| dguitarbite | But I need to discuss this with Lana and Andreas before. | 18:47 |
| dguitarbite | May be it is better to remove Liberty since it is EOL! | 18:47 |
| rluethi | Also, I will try to get better at backporting fixes. | 18:47 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: No worries, it is a team effort. We all should keep an eye on it for all the patches. | 18:47 |
| rluethi | People are using Liberty. That's good enough for me. | 18:48 |
| dguitarbite | Make it a rule to review comment if backport is required/necessary for a given patch. | 18:48 |
| rluethi | yes. | 18:48 |
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| dguitarbite | rluethi: I agree, and hear you about Liberty. I will try to think of something better if not, then I just add another button to download Newton :). | 18:48 |
| rluethi | Perfect. I am done for now. You? | 18:49 |
| dguitarbite | Me too. | 18:49 |
| dguitarbite | TTYL. | 18:49 |
| dguitarbite | Ciao. | 18:49 |
| rluethi | bye | 18:49 |
| dguitarbite | #endmeeting | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 7 18:49:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_labs/2016/training_labs.2016-11-07-18.34.html | 18:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_labs/2016/training_labs.2016-11-07-18.34.txt | 18:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_labs/2016/training_labs.2016-11-07-18.34.log.html | 18:49 |
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| dave-mccowan | #startmeeting Barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 7 20:00:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dave-mccowan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic roll call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:00 | |
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| diazjf | o/ | 20:00 |
| arunkant | o/ | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:00 |
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| alee | o/ | 20:01 |
| dave-mccowan | redrobot woodster_ ping | 20:01 |
| redrobot | o/ | 20:01 |
| * woodster_ lurks in the background...multitasking with another meeting :) | 20:02 | |
| dave-mccowan | we've a got a few more barbicaneers today. welcome back from barcelona everyone! | 20:02 |
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| dave-mccowan | #topic summit recap | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit recap (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:02 | |
| mathiasb | o/ | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | What's everyone thoughts on summit? What went well? What needs to happen next for Ocata? | 20:03 |
| diazjf | sup mathiasb | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-ocata-design-summit | 20:03 |
| * dave-mccowan waves mathiasb | 20:03 | |
| mathiasb | nm diazjf | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | I think in general the summit went well... | 20:04 |
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| diazjf | dave-mccowan I think it went really well. Lots of interest in barbican this time around. | 20:04 |
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| dave-mccowan | i heard really good things about the hands-on lab. great job on that! | 20:04 |
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| diazjf | thanks couldn't have done it without the crew | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | our theme for Ocata is quality and stability. | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | we've made some good progress on reducing our review backlog. let's keep that up. | 20:05 |
| mathiasb | as a participant I can say the hands on lab was great! | 20:05 |
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| alee | I think things went well. for one thing, it really looked like projects are starting to use barbican - and not treat it like the red headed stepchild. | 20:06 |
| alee | and yeah - the hands on seemed to go well -- I think we should reprise it in sydney perhaps .. | 20:06 |
| diazjf | alee haha right on | 20:07 |
| dave-mccowan | does anyone have an update on a work item you signed up for at summit? | 20:07 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, do we have a list of work items (and assignees) somewhere? | 20:08 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, perhaps something we should review at this meeting? | 20:08 |
| redrobot | No updates here... do we need a full spec for adding the ID property? | 20:08 |
| diazjf | dave-mccowan I started the initial chat with the vault team. Its the next topic. | 20:09 |
| dave-mccowan | alee, the minutes from the session at the link i posted above | 20:09 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, yeah - jjust noticing that .. | 20:09 |
| alee | no updates from me yet | 20:09 |
| dave-mccowan | i'll find a better place to record and track them for next week. ideally we'll use launch pad, but we need to clean up the old stuff first. | 20:10 |
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| dave-mccowan | moving on | 20:10 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic vault plugin | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "vault plugin (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:10 | |
| dave-mccowan | diazjf ? | 20:10 |
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| diazjf | Started the initial chat https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vault-tool/BfSq4dP081s they are definitely interested but we need to compile a list of requirements for each side | 20:11 |
| diazjf | I started https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican+vault so we can all give output. Will update by next meeting. | 20:11 |
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| dave-mccowan | the background, it folks would like another softHSM option, in addition to dogtag. vault is the popular one that people ask about. | 20:13 |
| dave-mccowan | redrobot you mentioned you had also done some initial research? | 20:13 |
| redrobot | dave-mccowan not much really, but I'll be looking into it more in-depth soon | 20:15 |
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| dave-mccowan | #topic threat analysis results | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "threat analysis results (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:16 | |
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| dave-mccowan | does anyone want to volunteer to write a spec (or etherpad) on how to sign database information to close the bug opened on the access vulnerability? | 20:17 |
| dave-mccowan | the bug says that if the database becomes compromised in such a way that an attacker has write permissions, he can change the database to grant himself all access to the secrets. the proposed design is to sign the database contents to close that gap. | 20:18 |
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| dave-mccowan | if no one else want to start, i'll make a first draft spec to start the conversation on if this is the right solution. | 20:19 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic Arun nominated for barbcian-core | 20:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Arun nominated for barbcian-core (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:20 | |
| alee | sounds great :) | 20:20 |
| alee | vote please! | 20:21 |
| dave-mccowan | congrats arun! | 20:21 |
| dave-mccowan | barbican cores, please reply to alee's email on openstack-dev email list to record your vote. | 20:21 |
| diazjf | +1 arunkant congrats | 20:21 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic any other business | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: Barbican)" | 20:22 | |
| diazjf | Deprecate those pesky certs | 20:23 |
| diazjf | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/393016/ | 20:23 |
| diazjf | Need some reviews on this | 20:23 |
| dave-mccowan | does anyone need details on PTG meeting in February? | 20:23 |
| mathiasb | diazjf dave-mccowan: there was interest in a vault backend at the swift design summit also | 20:24 |
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| diazjf | mathiasb once we get https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican+vault filled out we can start looking on what teams can contribute :) | 20:26 |
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| dave-mccowan | looks like that's all for today. thanks everyone! | 20:27 |
| mathiasb | diazjf: sounds good :) | 20:27 |
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| dave-mccowan | #endmeeting | 20:28 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 7 20:28:05 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-11-07-20.00.html | 20:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-11-07-20.00.txt | 20:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-11-07-20.00.log.html | 20:28 |
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| CarolBarrett | #startmeeting Product Working Group | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 7 21:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is CarolBarrett. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:01 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 21:01 |
| CarolBarrett | Hi All - Who's here for the PWG meeting? | 21:01 |
| CarolBarrett | Hi rockyg | 21:01 |
| kencjohnston | o/ | 21:02 |
| shamail | Hi everyone | 21:02 |
| kencjohnston | howdy shamail | 21:02 |
| CarolBarrett | hi shamail & kencjohnston | 21:02 |
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| leong | o/ | 21:02 |
| CarolBarrett | you can find the agenda here | 21:02 |
| shamail | hi kencjohnston, Rockyg, CarolBarrett, & leong :) | 21:02 |
| CarolBarrett | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team#November_7.2C_2016_Product_Team_Meeting_Agenda | 21:02 |
| CarolBarrett | hi leong | 21:02 |
| leong | hi all | 21:02 |
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| Rockyg | hey all! | 21:03 |
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| CarolBarrett | Glad to see you all were able to navigate the time change to be here! | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | let's get started | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Summit Observations | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Observations (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:04 | |
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| CarolBarrett | Want to spend a little time sharing observations you all have from the Summit - any part of it. | 21:04 |
| kencjohnston | Seemed to be good attendence at the summit in general | 21:04 |
| CarolBarrett | What were the 2-3 take aways you had? | 21:04 |
| kencjohnston | Keynotes had an awesome display of OpenStack users | 21:05 |
| kencjohnston | Glad to see movement on changes to the User Committee and excited about the impact for the Product Work Group | 21:05 |
| shamail | It seemed that a lot of the working sessions at this summit were preparing for transition (whether it be forum, PTG, UC charter, WG merges, etc.) | 21:05 |
| shamail | Containers is still trending up, role of OpenStack services seemed to be not as well-known with some of the attendees I spoke with | 21:06 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: agree...I think there was also a lot of that in the design summit - Stewardship, cross-project goals, etc | 21:06 |
| leong | with respect to PWG, it seems to me people has better understanding on what PWG trying to achieve... however, how we achieve our goal / creating positive impact to the community remains a challenge...:-) | 21:06 |
| CarolBarrett | leong: +1 | 21:06 |
| shamail | like understanding that OpenStack has services that use containers, facilitate container orchestration engines, images for services exist, or it can be used w/o any “container specific” services for containers (as IaaS) | 21:07 |
| leong | hoping that the PWG can really be effecting while the community moving towards the split of PTG and Forum/Summit | 21:07 |
| shamail | +1 | 21:07 |
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| kencjohnston | shamail: say more about "can be used w/o any "container specific".... | 21:08 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: E.g. you can use COEs on top of infrastructure provided by OpenStack (e.g. instances, bare-metal, networks, etc.) without having to use a service such as Magnum, Kolla, etc. | 21:09 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: ok got it, thanks | 21:09 |
| CarolBarrett | I thought the Board/TC joint session was good - esp the discussion about developer resources and challenges for Infra and other teams. | 21:10 |
| shamail | Generally, still seeing people exploring whether the technologies/platforms are complimentary, substitutes, orthogonal, etc. | 21:10 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: +1 | 21:10 |
| Rockyg | I think the momentum of OpenStack was very much on display. While it's still not easy to use, the adoption is strong | 21:11 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I missed that, can you provide more details? | 21:11 |
| kencjohnston | Rockyg: +1 | 21:11 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: I think helping people sort out the relationship between the container technologies is going to be mission critical over the next 6-12 months | 21:11 |
| Rockyg | Even if nothing changed and development continued at the current or even reduced rate, OpenStack will be used, even if a replacement turns up, for at least the next five years. | 21:12 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: totally agree, the easier we can make understanding the decision points and relationship the better it will be for continued momentum | 21:12 |
| leong | Container being the "overlay" and "underlay".... | 21:12 |
| Rockyg | ++ CarolBarrett | 21:12 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: The work force reductions at some of the OpenStack Community companies has led to a decrease in the number of developers on projects. | 21:12 |
| CarolBarrett | An example given was Infra; They used to have 12 cores and we just able to keep up with the work flow. Now they have 6, really understaffed, | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | specifically for Infra? | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Ahhh, ok. Thanks. | 21:13 |
| CarolBarrett | I think Nova was another example given about lower number of development resources...think this could become a challenge to navigate as the big tent continues to grow | 21:14 |
| CarolBarrett | On containers, It would seem like a series of Reference Architectures would be helpful....thoughts? | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | I know the shortage is also felt in the Horizon team. | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: On containers, I don't think it is a matter of reference archtiectures | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | maybe just more like stack diagrams | 21:15 |
| shamail | I agree with kencjohnston, I think even decision trees or cheat sheets on tech overview would be useful | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | Most people who are interested in "OpenStack and Containers" just want to know the ways to run containers on OpenStack | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | Part of our confusion is we talk about deploying on containers in the same breath as developing container based apps | 21:15 |
| leong | running Container on OpenStack or using Container to manage OpenStack ? :) | 21:15 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: Gotcha. Wonder if anyone's working on this....? | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | leong: I don't think anyone cares about running openstack on containers frankly | 21:16 |
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| shamail | leong: could be both… helping segment these use-cases is one of the things that could be covered | 21:16 |
| kencjohnston | accept if it makes running openstack easier. | 21:16 |
| CarolBarrett | this is where the confusion begins.... | 21:16 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Ha, +1 | 21:16 |
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| shamail | I think there is definitely greater value in explaining how to make containers available on OpenStack clouds versus deploying OpenStack services in containers themselves | 21:17 |
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| leong | that's the underlay and overlay question.. a "container sandwiches"... | 21:17 |
| CarolBarrett | I don't think this is ours to solve, but I would I would like someone to own it | 21:17 |
| shamail | broader segment | 21:17 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I'm happy to work on it | 21:17 |
| leong | i agree shamail and kencjohnston... | 21:17 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: Do you want to put together a team to take that on? | 21:18 |
| kencjohnston | I agree that it is a critical time period for openstack, and we need to communicate crisply if we don't want to loose an audience | 21:18 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Sure. | 21:18 |
| Rockyg | Also, I think maybe the kuryr project will be important for networking. | 21:18 |
| kencjohnston | Rockyg: +1 | 21:18 |
| CarolBarrett | Thanks Kencjohnston! Appreciate you taking that on. | 21:18 |
| kencjohnston | I'll send a note to the list. | 21:18 |
| kencjohnston | Can I record my own action? | 21:18 |
| CarolBarrett | any other observations from Barcelona to share? | 21:18 |
| Rockyg | maybe storage, too. so not deployment of openstack on/in containers, but managing the networks/storage via containers | 21:18 |
| Rockyg | Asia growing fast | 21:19 |
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| Rockyg | And some western folks not happy about it. | 21:19 |
| CarolBarrett | #action kencjohnston Start a team to develop crisp reference material to understand containers and OpenStack - how they can be used and what the value is | 21:19 |
| shamail | Possibly Rockyg, but kuryr is focusing on libnetwork and k8s for now right? Calico, Fannel, Weave, etc. are all interesting to discuss for container networking too. | 21:19 |
| kencjohnston | Rockyg: +1, the numbers presented by the Gold Member applicants were pretty astounding | 21:19 |
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| shamail | Flannel* | 21:20 |
| Rockyg | shamail, yes. I think kuryr is talking to at least calico | 21:20 |
| shamail | nice | 21:20 |
| CarolBarrett | I'd like to defer that discussion to kencjohnston and that team | 21:20 |
| shamail | Yep | 21:20 |
| leong | +1 | 21:20 |
| CarolBarrett | Let's move along.... | 21:20 |
| Rockyg | The thing is, China really doesnt get how opensource communities are expected to work. | 21:20 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Summit Working Session recap | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Working Session recap (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:21 | |
| Rockyg | missed it. recap is good for me. | 21:21 |
| shamail | ditto | 21:21 |
| CarolBarrett | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG_Session_Oct16_BCN | 21:21 |
| CarolBarrett | Here's the etherpad link for the session | 21:21 |
| CarolBarrett | Good attendance, several new folks. Including Stig from the Scientific WG | 21:22 |
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| Rockyg | thanks | 21:23 |
| CarolBarrett | 1st topi was Ocata Goals | 21:23 |
| CarolBarrett | Kenny and Pete led this one | 21:23 |
| CarolBarrett | Kenny - do you want to recap this one? | 21:23 |
| * kencjohnston reads teh etherpad notes | 21:24 | |
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| kencjohnston | So we come up with a series of potential goals that ranged from completion (merger) of user stories to helping identifying a list of SMEs | 21:24 |
| kencjohnston | Generally speaking we were supposed to +1 the items we were interested in being goals (and contributing to) and in a subsequent team meeting determien which to prioritize. | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | There was good discussion around new user stories wanted/needed, esepcially from operator feedback provided by Piet and the UX team. | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | There was also general agreement that we need to work towards completing the user story tracker as a critical deliverable. | 21:26 |
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| CarolBarrett | It seems like line #57, #61 and #71 are leading the voting | 21:26 |
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| kencjohnston | Agreed | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | I think it was also good to get ideas for user stories out on the table | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | I know I'll be collaborating with some members on other non-priority stories. | 21:27 |
| CarolBarrett | I wonder if we can finalize that in this meeting...Thoughts? | 21:27 |
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| shamail | Is “establish simplified process for PWG to get wider range of feedback” one of the goals? Am I reading the etherpad correctly | 21:27 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: sure, that makes sense. | 21:27 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I'd be in favor. | 21:27 |
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| shamail | CarolBarrett: +1 | 21:28 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: yes, the work flow strikes people as complicated and long to execute. | 21:28 |
| Rockyg | Yeah, I working with Kei on the logging. | 21:28 |
| shamail | Thanks CarolBarrett | 21:28 |
| kencjohnston | I don't mean to open a can of worms here, but the way to get our process to work faster is to get more reviewers reviewing user stories | 21:28 |
| leong | yes.. rokcyg i'm working with Kei on that as well.. :-) | 21:28 |
| CarolBarrett | The desire is to simplify it so that other work groups can flow user stories more easily | 21:28 |
| kencjohnston | And that speaks to the complicated workflow, not just the actual flow but the tools required to be involved | 21:28 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: +1, that is how I interpreted wider feedback | 21:28 |
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| Rockyg | ++ | 21:29 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: shamail +1 we need to figure out a smoother process, or provide better training for user story creation and review | 21:29 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: Good point, the solution will be a combination of things... | 21:29 |
| kencjohnston | Maybe that will come with time but we've struggled over the past year with it. | 21:29 |
| kencjohnston | I'm saying all this to say that I think that should be our #1 priority | 21:30 |
| kencjohnston | and that I don't have any great suggestions for next steps to tackle it :) | 21:30 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: I agree | 21:30 |
| shamail | Yeah, maybe its a combination of reducing the barrier for user stories in the creation/validation phase (e.g. maybe using a non-gerrit method) and then using gerrit when we need technical feedback from broader community | 21:30 |
| * shamail shrugs | 21:30 | |
| Rockyg | Well, I know some folks (mostly not here right now) won't like hearing this, but outside the dev community, it's much easier to get folks to collaborate via wiki than via garret | 21:31 |
| shamail | basically make the first phase of the workflow as simple as possible with lower barrier (not havign to know tools) to get broader feedback/involvement | 21:31 |
| kencjohnston | It actually feels like the broader UC is moving in the other direction. | 21:31 |
| shamail | leave the second part closer to OpenStack process to make transition from story to dev artifacts easier | 21:32 |
| kencjohnston | Moving to more gerrit/git workflows rather than less. | 21:32 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: it is | 21:32 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: I agree, I think they are moving that direction | 21:32 |
| Rockyg | shamail, +1. Maybe start with w iki page and move to gerrit when the story is close? | 21:32 |
| kencjohnston | I'm not sure we want to solve this hear. But sounds like we all agree it should be a priority. | 21:33 |
| shamail | Rockyg: something like that… the “formal” flow is still in gerrit but brainstorming/creation is outside to attract more content/perspectives | 21:33 |
| shamail | Yeah | 21:33 |
| CarolBarrett | Sounds like there is a lot of agreement around that priority, so let's capture that | 21:33 |
| shamail | Let’s defer but it is a priority | 21:33 |
| Rockyg | shamail, ++ | 21:33 |
| CarolBarrett | #agree Priority #1 is Establish simplified process for PWG to get wider range of feedback | 21:33 |
| CarolBarrett | Is anyone willing to be the lead for that? | 21:33 |
| shamail | I can help with this one | 21:34 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: Thanks! | 21:34 |
| CarolBarrett | #action Shamail to lead the Simplification effort with help from the team | 21:34 |
| CarolBarrett | What about the 2nd priority? | 21:34 |
| CarolBarrett | User Story Tracker? | 21:35 |
| kencjohnston | Tracker | 21:35 |
| shamail | ++ | 21:35 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 21:35 |
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| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: +1 | 21:35 |
| CarolBarrett | #agree 2nd Priority for Ocata cycle is completing the User Story Tracker | 21:35 |
| CarolBarrett | someone want to lead that effort? | 21:35 |
| shamail | I’ll be glad to help but can’t lead (cycles) | 21:36 |
| CarolBarrett | understand shamail | 21:36 |
| CarolBarrett | I'd like to have someone outside of Intel lead this, and ideally bring some resources too | 21:36 |
| CarolBarrett | Our team could use some help from other people who have worked with Infra and scripts | 21:37 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I was thinking I could try and get some OSIC resources on it, but I can't lead it. | 21:37 |
| shamail | Yeah, openstack-infra + puppet experience would be great | 21:37 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: If you could check with OSIC that would be great. | 21:37 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: already on it :) | 21:38 |
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| shamail | Thanks kencjohnston | 21:38 |
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| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: Thanks | 21:38 |
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| CarolBarrett | #action kencjohnson check on resources to join User Story Tracker from OSIC | 21:38 |
| CarolBarrett | #action CarolBarrett add getting an owner for this priority to next meeting when we have more info on resources from OSIC | 21:39 |
| CarolBarrett | And for Priority #3: Capacity Management (completed and gaps analysis complete) | 21:40 |
| CarolBarrett | ? | 21:40 |
| CarolBarrett | The other proposal which didn't get as many votes as Cap Managment is UC/Other WGs working together..I do think this is going to be important for us to fulfill our "bridge" role | 21:41 |
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| CarolBarrett | What do you all think? | 21:41 |
| MeganR | I think that might happen naturally, not certain it needs to be a focused priority for us | 21:41 |
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| MeganR | I think the Cap Management should be the focus | 21:42 |
| shamail | I think the UC/Forum items are more important for this cycle | 21:42 |
| Rockyg | cap mgmnt | 21:42 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I agree with MeganR between natural evolution and our work to improve the process we should have "workign with UC and other WG" covered. | 21:42 |
| shamail | Is the goal with capacity management to just get the requirements captured? | 21:42 |
| kencjohnston | Although I do agree that don't think Cap Management, or the publication of any user story should be a team goal | 21:43 |
| kencjohnston | We can have subgroups who are interested contribute to that effort | 21:43 |
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| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: I think I understand your viewpoint, but want to check - as the bridge, we're working to get the process defined and operate it - not own the content that goes through it...? | 21:44 |
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| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Well, I mean we do own the content that goes through it | 21:45 |
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| kencjohnston | I'm just thinking we need to as a team focus on prioritizing getting our setup straight | 21:45 |
| kencjohnston | and then individual team members who have a desire to move certain user stories can/should collaborate on creating that content | 21:45 |
| CarolBarrett | kenjohnston: Understand and agree | 21:46 |
| CarolBarrett | Other thoughts? | 21:46 |
| kencjohnston | There was another thread aroudn acceptance criteria | 21:46 |
| kencjohnston | that didn't seem to make it into the recap | 21:47 |
| shamail | I agree that organizing our workflow/setup is more critical for the team (esp. with our potential role in the revised UC model) | 21:47 |
| CarolBarrett | If we are in agreement on that, then I think working with the UC on its transition and the TC on the forum transition would be a a priority | 21:47 |
| shamail | We should still be available to help during that transition as needed | 21:47 |
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| CarolBarrett | shamail: agree | 21:47 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I agree on the forum transition, i'm not sure what our goal is there. | 21:47 |
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| shamail | kencjohnston: Our goal would be to ensure that the forum results are captured in an actionable manner for the community (one of which could be to have user stories as an output) and/or ensuring that user stories can be considered topics as well. | 21:48 |
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| CarolBarrett | Kencjohnston: Our goal is to make sure the info gets captured with sufficent details to be actionable by the Project teams when they have their PTGs and are desiging the future release plans | 21:48 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: +1 | 21:49 |
| CarolBarrett | And ideally, track the action on the feedback so we can show Operators that they are being heard.... | 21:49 |
| shamail | We would not be involved with crafting the final plans but rather to ensure that the plans reflect a way to get to “next steps" | 21:49 |
| CarolBarrett | So going for the close - I propose Priority #3 is supporting the UC and Forum transitions | 21:50 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: +1 | 21:50 |
| shamail | I also do think that capacity management can be pursued in parallel by a sub-team for that user story | 21:50 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: shamail OK got it, +1 to those goals | 21:50 |
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| CarolBarrett | #agree Priority 3 is supporting the UC and Forum transitions | 21:51 |
| CarolBarrett | Who wants to take point on this one? | 21:51 |
| shamail | Happy to help again, I’ll volunteer next time if we still don’t find someone in the next meeting. | 21:51 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 21:51 |
| kencjohnston | +1, I'd like to see some new members take it on, but you can put me down in the interim | 21:52 |
| CarolBarrett | I can take this one, but that means someone else will need to take User Story Tracker lead | 21:52 |
| MeganR | I'm happy to help, but with us heading into holiday - I can't lead it | 21:52 |
| shamail | Seems like a team is already forming but just noone to lead :P | 21:52 |
| CarolBarrett | #action Carol to lead Priority 3 - supporting the UC and Forum transitions | 21:53 |
| shamail | So Kenny, you’re good with it for now and then we can ask for a volunteer next week? | 21:53 |
| Rockyg | Hey, at least *we* are aware of lack of leadership. Most devs aren't ;-) | 21:53 |
| shamail | Oh, nm. :) | 21:53 |
| CarolBarrett | Let's keep moving | 21:53 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic User Story Updates from the Summit | 21:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User Story Updates from the Summit (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:53 | |
| Rockyg | On tracker subject, has anyone talked to the storyboard folks recently? | 21:54 |
| CarolBarrett | What's the progress report on the top User Stories? | 21:54 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Great cross project discussiona bout rolling upgrades | 21:54 |
| kencjohnston | Keystone applied for the tag | 21:54 |
| kencjohnston | glance is in POC | 21:54 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: Yea!! | 21:54 |
| kencjohnston | continued work in Neutron and Cinder | 21:54 |
| shamail | Wow, awesome! | 21:54 |
| CarolBarrett | I see on the TC agenda for tomorrow is a discussion on Create a project tag for zero-downtime upgrades | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | The cross project discussion was about moving beyond rolling to "Zero Downtime" upgrades tag | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | There is a PR up for review on that topic | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: ++ | 21:55 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: Will you able to attend the TC meeting tomorrow? I have a conflict | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I'll try, let me check my calendar | 21:56 |
| kencjohnston | There is a member of the OSIC team leading that discussion I imagine, Dolph Matthews. If I don't I'll get an update from him. | 21:56 |
| CarolBarrett | Kencjohnston: Do you think we'll have the core project supporting rolling upgrades in Ocata release? | 21:57 |
| Rockyg | Oh, if Dolph is there, we're golden | 21:57 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Probably not for Neutron. | 21:57 |
| Rockyg | Neutron is pushing hard. But lots to get in place | 21:57 |
| kencjohnston | Rockyg: +1, not for want of trying | 21:57 |
| CarolBarrett | Bummer, though if the others get there, that's real progress! | 21:58 |
| CarolBarrett | We've got 2 mins left - any other User Story updates? | 21:58 |
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| shamail | Great meeting :) | 21:58 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: +1 | 21:59 |
| CarolBarrett | Good progress - will update our wiki with the goals and float an email on the ML too. | 21:59 |
| shamail | Thanks CarolBarrett! | 21:59 |
| kencjohnston | I'm glad the timezones are back so this fits into my calendar :) | 21:59 |
| shamail | Yeah, welcome back kencjohnston :D | 21:59 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: +1 Thanks CarolBarrett! | 21:59 |
| CarolBarrett | #action CarolBarrett Update our wiki with the goals and float an email on the ML | 21:59 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: +1 | 22:00 |
| CarolBarrett | Thanks everyone - type with you next week | 22:00 |
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| CarolBarrett | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 7 22:00:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-11-07-21.01.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-11-07-21.01.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-11-07-21.01.log.html | 22:00 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | hello | 22:07 |
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| MadhuKashyap | Hi Arkady, I just joined. Looks like the meeting happened at 1pm PST. | 22:08 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | too bad. I had not received notice of time change | 22:09 |
| MadhuKashyap | same here | 22:09 |
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