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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 14 14:00:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| *** jprovazn has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:00 | |
| edleafe | Hello! Who's here today? | 14:00 |
| macsz | \o | 14:00 |
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| macsz | well, it seems the room is empty | 14:01 |
| alex_xu | o/ | 14:01 |
| * edleafe has room to stretch his legs | 14:01 | |
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| edleafe | Let's wait a little bit for the latecomers | 14:02 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:03 |
| cdent | this is what happens when I show up early, forget to actually show up | 14:04 |
| edleafe | heh | 14:04 |
| bauzas | holy snap | 14:04 |
| bauzas | \o | 14:04 |
| bauzas | again, I should departure in 20 mins | 14:04 |
| edleafe | bauzas: ack | 14:04 |
| bauzas | sadly | 14:05 |
| edleafe | As usual, the agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaScheduler | 14:05 |
| edleafe | #topic Specs and Reviews | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs and Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:05 | |
| edleafe | I stole cdent's summary of outstanding things to review, and included in the agenda | 14:05 |
| edleafe | Has everyone had a chance to look those over? | 14:06 |
| cdent | edleafe: you can't steal what is given freely | 14:06 |
| edleafe | Note that today is a Spec Review day, so we should focus on getting the specs done first | 14:06 |
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| edleafe | cdent: I can and I did! | 14:06 |
| cdent | And I left one thing out: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382640/ | 14:06 |
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| edleafe | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382640/ | 14:07 |
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| edleafe | So... we could go through them one by one, but that doesn't sound very efficient | 14:07 |
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| edleafe | Instead, does anyone have any issues or problems with any of those specs/reviews? | 14:08 |
| cdent | no sir | 14:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | quick questions on calling placement | 14:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I was thinking about the caching scheduler | 14:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | I assume we just leave that doing what it does today, probably | 14:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | basically it works because we get the full list of nodes from the DB | 14:09 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well, given the placement API is still optional, my answer would be yes | 14:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | if we don't get the full list, it doesn't really have anything it can cache | 14:09 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: I would think so, at least until we can get the placement API to perform better than the caching scheduler | 14:09 |
| bauzas | yeah that | 14:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we probably need the claims before we can drop it | 14:10 |
| cdent | johnthetubaguy: yeah, my recollection was we just wouldn't change the caching scheduler | 14:10 |
| edleafe | agreed | 14:10 |
| bauzas | you can have operators not wanting to use the placement engine and keep the caching scheduler | 14:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so the caching scheduler is a subclass of the filter scheduler | 14:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | is implementation wise, its not as easier as that | 14:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | but agreed with the direction there | 14:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | its just not noted in the spec | 14:10 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: that wouldn't change, the use-filters spec doesn't impact it | 14:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I am on the wrong spec... | 14:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | sorry | 14:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/300178 | 14:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | missread the UURL | 14:11 |
| bauzas | johnhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/300178/4 yeah | 14:11 |
| * johnthetubaguy should get his post lunch coffee quickly | 14:11 | |
| * edleafe needs his morning coffee too | 14:12 | |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385618/1 is a prereq tho | 14:12 |
| * cdent needs his post coffee coffee | 14:12 | |
| edleafe | So the point is that we have to allow for an override of the DB filtering for subclasses, right? | 14:12 |
| * alex_xu just needs to go to bed | 14:12 | |
| bauzas | edleafe: you mean, other resources ? | 14:13 |
| bauzas | edleafe: there are a lot of things in the HostState object that filters use, that are not provided by the current placement resource classes | 14:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think we could just do a "skip_resource_filters=True" or something | 14:13 |
| edleafe | | 14:14 |
| bauzas | feel free to comment on the spec, I'll appreciate ideas for turning off the placement call if needed | 14:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | if we are clear on the behaviours, I think the code structure should drop out from that, I just want to see a note about the need to adress it really | 14:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, adding comments right now | 14:14 |
| bauzas | edleafe: I agree | 14:14 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: yes, but there will have to be something about not removing those filters | 14:14 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: the spec talks about deprecating them | 14:14 |
| cdent | I think we're describing this backwards | 14:15 |
| bauzas | edleafe: http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/i-love-unicode-mug.jpg | 14:15 |
| cdent | the use of the placement api to narrow available resources happens before any filters are every called, it is before entering the filtering loop | 14:15 |
| bauzas | edleafe: it's the operator's responsibility to have the flags being consistent | 14:15 |
| cdent | so for things like the caching scheduler we need to not do whatever is doing the narrowing, and just call the filtering loop as before | 14:15 |
| cdent | s/every/ever/ | 14:15 |
| bauzas | ie. having the legacy filters being either turned on and placement off, or the legacy being turned off | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: sorry for being late | 14:16 |
| edleafe | cdent: agreed. But we should change the spec to remove the wording about deprecating the filters in that case | 14:16 |
| cdent | edleafe: yes | 14:16 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: go sit in the corner! | 14:16 |
| * jaypipes dons duncecap | 14:16 | |
| bauzas | edleafe: it's all about *deprecating*, not removing | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: so, a quick update from me... | 14:16 |
| edleafe | bauzas: 'deprecating' means 'stop using this thing ASAP' | 14:17 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/inventory-allocations-ocata | 14:17 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: I rebased and fixed up a few things from that series ^ | 14:17 |
| bauzas | edleafe: if you use the placement API, those legacy filters should be disabled ASAP, indeed | 14:18 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: would appreciate some reviews on that if possible. We should be able to close that out in a day or two unless someone has any major objections. | 14:18 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: great. Will review that series | 14:18 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: spec review day | 14:18 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: ya, I know. | 14:18 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: cheers | 14:18 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: k., just wanted to make sure you being aware :) | 14:18 |
| edleafe | bauzas: What I'm talking about is this sentence: "Legacy filters (CoreFilter, RAMFilter and DiskFilter) that have corresponding | 14:18 |
| edleafe | resource classes will be considered deprecated and will be removed in the next | 14:18 |
| edleafe | cycle." | 14:18 |
| bauzas | edleafe: given my very short time left, can we postpone that discussion ? | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: on another note, I will be pushing code that adds the Ironic custom resource class handling today. | 14:19 |
| edleafe | bauzas: sure | 14:19 |
| bauzas | edleafe: just make a comment in the spec, and I'll engage with you | 14:19 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: do you have a specific topic you'd like to discuss before you go? | 14:19 |
| bauzas | edleafe: nothing really | 14:19 |
| edleafe | bauzas: ok cool | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: do we have an etherpad with current highest priority specs to review? | 14:19 |
| bauzas | edleafe: well, I won't be able to join next week's meeting | 14:20 |
| alex_xu | jaypipes: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-ocata-spec-review-sprint there is one from Matt | 14:20 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: There is the pad that mriedem posted: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-ocata-spec-review-sprint | 14:20 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: cdent amended the priorities etherpad | 14:20 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: damn! You're too fast for me! :) | 14:20 |
| bauzas | and that, yes | 14:20 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: :) | 14:21 |
| cdent | bauzas: that was quite a while ago, but yeah. I think the email that I sent, and thus the agenda (since edleafe is a self-confessed thief) is most up to date? | 14:21 |
| bauzas | cdent: you mean the priorities etherpad ? | 14:22 |
| edleafe | I haven't cross-checked, but if any of our specs aren't on Matt's list, let's be sure to add them | 14:22 |
| bauzas | cdent: if so, yes | 14:23 |
| cdent | the next time I send that email (presumably friday, I can also update the priority etherpad if that's what people want) | 14:23 |
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| cdent | edleafe: custom resource classes and nested resource providers were not on matt's etherpad last I checked but I didn't add things because I thought I recalled matt saying he didn't want people to do that (but since then people have) | 14:24 |
| edleafe | didn't want people to add specs to the etherpad? Or just those specs? | 14:24 |
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| cdent | didn't want people to add things, but I'm probably misremembering, or conflating something with the wrong thing | 14:25 |
| bauzas | folks, \o | 14:25 |
| cdent | but given the bubble has burst we should add | 14:25 |
| bauzas | time is flying | 14:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | you are right cdent, he said ask him for adds | 14:25 |
| * bauzas runs errand | 14:25 | |
| * cdent is relieved, not yet totally brain dead | 14:25 | |
| edleafe | OK, we ask for Matt's blessing on any specs we need reviewed | 14:26 |
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| edleafe | #action edleafe to ask mriedem to add any placement specs to the review etherpad | 14:27 |
| edleafe | I'll take that one | 14:27 |
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| edleafe | Anything else to discuss for specs/reviews? | 14:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | did we want to cover | 14:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | POST vs GET? | 14:28 |
| edleafe | I'd rather cover tabs vs. spaces :) | 14:29 |
| cdent | johnthetubaguy: we were going to do that on the spec and poc, I think | 14:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, cool | 14:30 |
| edleafe | Let's move on | 14:30 |
| edleafe | #topic Open Discussion | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:30 | |
| edleafe | First up: Ocata Upgrade Plans | 14:30 |
| edleafe | We aren't clear on just what steps operators will have to take as the placement API is rolled out | 14:31 |
| cdent | matt r wrote some useful stuff about that in response to my email | 14:31 |
| edleafe | cdent: yes, I saw that | 14:31 |
| cdent | and also in his (excellent) start on the docs | 14:32 |
| edleafe | So I guess we need to officialize the upgrade steps | 14:32 |
| edleafe | Since bauzas isn't here, let's assign it to him!! | 14:32 |
| edleafe | (jk) | 14:32 |
| edleafe | So should we build on Matt's response? | 14:33 |
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| cdent | seems like a reasonable plan | 14:34 |
| edleafe | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/107177.html | 14:34 |
| edleafe | ^^ Matt's response | 14:34 |
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| cdent | this has two +2 but no +W can somebody kick it in, unless there are objections: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395971/ | 14:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hmm, I didn't +W, thats odd | 14:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I was kinda waiting for dan to respond | 14:37 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: so can you follow with dan about that? | 14:38 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, its my bad for not adding that in my vote | 14:38 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 14:39 |
| edleafe | Next up: documentation | 14:39 |
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| edleafe | mriedem already gave us an excellent start: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396761/ | 14:39 |
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| edleafe | I see a TODO for api-ref. That can get started while we settle more bits in the API | 14:40 |
| edleafe | Any comments / suggestions? | 14:41 |
| cdent | one of the open questions on that is how to source some of the info for the api-ref, as I guess in compute-api the api-samples are used for that | 14:41 |
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| cdent | we can probably figure out a way to use the gabbits but it may not be worth the effort: the api is pretty simple and hopefully will stay that way | 14:41 |
| cdent | (we should fight hard to keep it that way) | 14:41 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: any ideas of this? (If you're still awake :) | 14:42 |
| edleafe | cdent: +1 on not mucking up the API | 14:42 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: agree with cdent, the api is pretty simple, so it is ok without some automatically | 14:42 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: ok, good to know | 14:43 |
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| edleafe | Anything else to discuss for Opens? | 14:44 |
| alex_xu | actually the api-ref of compute isn't generated from anything also. only the api sample files are generated from api sample tests. and add refer link to the api-ref | 14:44 |
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| edleafe | Looks like we're done. | 14:47 |
| edleafe | Thanks everyone! | 14:47 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 14:47:36 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-11-14-14.00.html | 14:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-11-14-14.00.txt | 14:47 |
| cdent | thanks edleafe | 14:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-11-14-14.00.log.html | 14:47 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting neutron_upgrades | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 14 15:00:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_upgrades' | 15:00 |
| ihrachys | hey folks | 15:00 |
| electrocucaracha | hola | 15:00 |
| dasanind_ | Hi | 15:00 |
| korzen | hello | 15:01 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Upgrades-Subteam Agenda | 15:01 |
| ndahiwade | Hi | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:02 | |
| asingh_ | Hello | 15:02 |
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| ihrachys | O-1 is this week | 15:02 |
| ihrachys | also, some folks are working on switching gate to all Xenial | 15:02 |
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| ihrachys | from upgrades standpoint, the most interesting of the latter is the following: Newton/Ocata branches will run on Xenial | 15:03 |
| sshank | Hello. | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | BUT: grenade jobs will still run on Trusty (for Newton) | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | this is because grenade for Newton validates Mitaka -> Newton upgrade, and Mitaka is supposed to be Trusty | 15:03 |
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| sindhu | Hi | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | you may notice some reshuffling of gate jobs in all branches in next days | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | actually, it already occurs :) | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | I don't have any more public announcements for you | 15:04 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Partial Multinode Grenade | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Partial Multinode Grenade (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:04 | |
| ihrachys | ok, that one, I actually looked at logs and made some progress (I hope) | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | first thing I noticed was that for some reason, we were starting OVS agent on the new side of grenade | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | I came up with a simple patch for that issue: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396658/ | 15:05 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: is it the reopened bug of the other day? | 15:05 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: I don't know what you refer to | 15:05 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: if you mean ryu one, no | 15:05 |
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| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: yeah, that one... ok | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: but that's a good call, I will touch it later | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | so, with the patch above, I triggered experimental tests again at: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396659/ | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | and it's actually very promising | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | the test results for the run: http://logs.openstack.org/59/396659/1/experimental/gate-grenade-dsvm-neutron-linuxbridge-multinode-nv/97289d8/logs/testr_results.html.gz | 15:06 |
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| ihrachys | note there is a single test that actually failed | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | test_schedule_to_all_nodes | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | I *suspect* there is some setup error where nova maybe tries to schedule an instance for a node that does not run a neutron l2 agent | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | more investigation is needed though | 15:08 |
| ihrachys | jschwarz: will you have time this week to look at the failure in linuxbridge grenade multinode job? | 15:08 |
| ihrachys | with that remaining failure fixed, I believe we will be able to fix the job and move it into check queue | 15:08 |
| ihrachys | actually, anyone interested may step in and try to fix the failure | 15:09 |
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| ihrachys | ok seems like no one is truly interested ;) | 15:10 |
| ihrachys | moving on | 15:10 |
| * electrocucaracha would like but he'll be bug deputy this week | 15:10 | |
| ihrachys | #topic Object implementation | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Object implementation (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:10 | |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron+branch:master+topic:bp/adopt-oslo-versioned-objects-for-db | 15:10 |
| ihrachys | we landed some patches the previous week | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | most notably, dns integration: https://review.openstack.org/381333 | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | some preparations for adoption of objects in tree: https://review.openstack.org/357787 and https://review.openstack.org/363206 and https://review.openstack.org/394627 | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | finally, DuplicateEntry is now retriable on API/plugin level: https://review.openstack.org/377084 | 15:12 |
| ihrachys | thanks the authors and reviewers | 15:12 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: there are several patches that depends on router and agent ovo, not sure if we can consider them for high priority? | 15:13 |
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| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: yes. links? | 15:13 |
| electrocucaracha | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/307964/ Router | 15:13 |
| electrocucaracha | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297887/ Agent | 15:13 |
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| * ihrachys copied the links into his trello board and will give them priority | 15:14 | |
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| korzen | I have a question, about adoption and TODOs on port and network OVOs | 15:15 |
| korzen | I will take care of Network OVO adoption | 15:15 |
| korzen | anyone is interested in port? | 15:15 |
| ihrachys | I probably won't be able to give it a run this week | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | do we have a WIP at least? or it's all new work? | 15:16 |
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| korzen | all new | 15:17 |
| * electrocucaracha is reviewing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FeeQlQITsZSj_wpOXiLbS36dirb_arX0XEWBdFVPMB8/edit#gid=1434170112 | 15:17 | |
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| ihrachys | my more humble plan for the next steps is to land all binding related objects | 15:17 |
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| ihrachys | because work that will involve them is in line for Ocata | 15:17 |
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| ndahiwade | ihrachys:korzen: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382567/ | 15:18 |
| korzen | ihrachys, what do you mean by bondings? | 15:19 |
| korzen | bindings* | 15:19 |
| ihrachys | korzen: port binding objects like the one specified by ndahiwade above. remember the design session where changes to bindings API were discussed? that will involve change in db schema. | 15:20 |
| korzen | ok | 15:21 |
| korzen | that one | 15:21 |
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| korzen | I have reviewed the spec and patches from andreas_s but I did not have time to contact with him | 15:22 |
| ihrachys | oh that's cool. you are a lot more rapid than me. | 15:22 |
| ihrachys | do you see any issues with the approach proposed that could affect us? | 15:22 |
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| korzen | it is not clear to be which way we should go | 15:23 |
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| korzen | because we should use the distributed port binding instead of port regular binding? | 15:24 |
| andreas_s | hi korzen, brianstajkowski and his team will take over the work on the portbinding item, so for future question, please take him into the loop | 15:24 |
| ihrachys | andreas_s: oh. are you pulled from neutron or just this specific thing? | 15:24 |
| ihrachys | korzen: from our POV it should not matter as long as we are ready with objects and integration for both? | 15:25 |
| andreas_s | andreas_s, just this specific thing, but I'm getting more involved into other projects, so I very welcomed that :) | 15:26 |
| korzen | I mean that there is no sense to add new attributes for port binding, if we have distribted port binding fitting the job nearly perfectly | 15:26 |
| ihrachys | korzen: oh you suggest that no new model will show up? | 15:27 |
| korzen | ihrachys, that is my understanding | 15:27 |
| ihrachys | korzen: we still probably need to support the flow where you have a legacy binding, then add a new host to it. | 15:27 |
| korzen | fomr DB and OVO | 15:27 |
| korzen | from db and ovo point of view | 15:27 |
| ihrachys | but that may be just business logic messing with two types of objects I guess | 15:28 |
| ihrachys | with no facade hiding transition | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | ok let's move on | 15:29 |
| ihrachys | #topic Other patches on review | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other patches on review (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:29 | |
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| ihrachys | not a patch exactly, but probably relevant, something that electrocucaracha mentioned already | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | there is a bug where agent restart fails | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | that affects grenade jobs in gate | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | it's not specifically upgrade related | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | it fails to start the agent because the new instance of the agent fails to start Ryu controller | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | and this is because the old one is left running | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | the bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1611237 | 15:31 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1611237 in neutron "Restart neutron-openvswitch-agent get ERROR "Switch connection timeout"" [High,Confirmed] | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | turned out that's some bug in 'psmisc' package actually | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | that is not going to be fixed in trusty | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | that should be fixed for Newton+ with the Xenial switch, hopefully | 15:31 |
| ihrachys | as for Mitaka, well... the bug shows up only with of_interface = native that was CLI by default back then, so it's not hitting us in gate | 15:32 |
| ihrachys | so we are probably ok-ish | 15:32 |
| sshank | ihrachys, korzen Can you please review patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395748/ . It was introduced since it was asked to be introduced in patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/361303/20/neutron/db/provisioning_blocks.py@169 | 15:32 |
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| ihrachys | sshank: ack | 15:33 |
| korzen | yes I wanted to discuss it | 15:33 |
| korzen | meaning the 'any_object' new method name | 15:33 |
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| korzen | but we can continue on gerrit | 15:34 |
| sshank | As korzen mentioned, I find possible usages of this in 2 places. Here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/381209/14/neutron/db/l3_hamode_db.py@762 and the above provisioning block patch. | 15:34 |
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| ihrachys | why isn't count() enough? | 15:34 |
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| ihrachys | ok nevermind, let's discuss on gerrit | 15:36 |
| sshank | ihrachys, Ok. Thanks. | 15:36 |
| ihrachys | I don't know of any more patches requiring particular attention. | 15:36 |
| dasanind_ | ihrachys: korzen: need some reviews for the OVO patches :)(https://review.openstack.org/#/c/356660/, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/362508/, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/360908/) | 15:36 |
| ihrachys | of course you we do need, yes! | 15:36 |
| ihrachys | *you we -> we | 15:36 |
| dasanind_ | thank you :) | 15:37 |
| korzen | I have lost the count of how many reviews are in queue | 15:37 |
| korzen | ;) | 15:37 |
| ihrachys | haha | 15:37 |
| ihrachys | it scares me too | 15:37 |
| korzen | so yes, please ping me if you have something urgent | 15:37 |
| korzen | I have 800+ messages in my review mailbox | 15:38 |
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| ihrachys | right, I find it beneficial if people ping me on irc from time to time with things they believe are ready | 15:38 |
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| ihrachys | of course I already have enough for a next day | 15:38 |
| ihrachys | but you can pull me into more later in the week :) | 15:38 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open discussion | 15:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:38 | |
| dasanind_ | :) | 15:39 |
| ndahiwade | ihrachys: korzen: Can you guys take a look at this error:http://paste.openstack.org/show/589137/? | 15:39 |
| electrocucaracha | well, regarding Allocation and Endpoint objects I consoled them in a single patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396327/ | 15:39 |
| ndahiwade | In this patch:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382567/ | 15:39 |
| ndahiwade | It persists after vif_details was changed in PortBinding and DistributedPortBinding Objects | 15:41 |
| electrocucaracha | ndahiwade: that sounds familiar to me, maybe it's the way the it's parsing the vif_details property | 15:41 |
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| korzen | ndahiwade, it looks like in OVO there is dict but code is passing string | 15:41 |
| ndahiwade | korzen:electrocucaracha: ack,not sure how to solve this one | 15:42 |
| ihrachys | right. we should find where it hits the object (it's in stack trace) and see if we need to convert json into a dict at that point | 15:42 |
| ndahiwade | Debugging leads me to PortBinding OVO integration | 15:43 |
| korzen | maybe adoption code should pass dict, and before OVO core code was using the JSON in string | 15:43 |
| korzen | ndahiwade, I will take a look tomorrow | 15:43 |
| ndahiwade | korzen:Thanks:) | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | yeap. I think we should convert somewhere in line 507 of plugin.py | 15:44 |
| korzen | anyone is interested in docs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/336518/ | 15:45 |
| ihrachys | ooooh right | 15:45 |
| ihrachys | I completely forgot about it | 15:45 |
| * ihrachys adds another link into his todo list | 15:45 | |
| korzen | I will need to update it a bit but please review until it will be obsolete | 15:45 |
| korzen | again | 15:45 |
| korzen | :) | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | :) | 15:46 |
| sshank | ihrachys, korzen, Patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382037/ is related to port binding levels. Can you please review it? | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | you don't sound too optimistic | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | I should prove you wrong!! | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | ok, do we have any specific team wide topic to run, or we call it a day? | 15:46 |
| electrocucaracha | regarding the patch that I mentioned before(https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396327/), I created to make easier the integration | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | ack | 15:47 |
| ihrachys | ok, let's end the meeting then | 15:47 |
| sshank | korzen, Any idea how to go about the standard attribute OVO? | 15:47 |
| * ihrachys holds back | 15:47 | |
| korzen | sshank, not yet | 15:48 |
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| korzen | I guess that we can try some private OVO using the db_obj stored | 15:48 |
| korzen | in every object | 15:48 |
| korzen | but it can be specific for only Port | 15:49 |
| korzen | or maybe not standard-attr ovo but only property | 15:49 |
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| korzen | that would be easier | 15:49 |
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| korzen | if we care only on standard-attr-id | 15:49 |
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| korzen | s/on/about | 15:50 |
| sshank | korzen, yes only the ID is necessary. | 15:50 |
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| korzen | so it can be added as property returning self.db_obj.standard_attr_id | 15:50 |
| ihrachys | yeap. | 15:51 |
| korzen | if we are going to use property, it can be added to every object | 15:51 |
| ihrachys | or just make it base but exposed only for objects with stdattr. | 15:51 |
| korzen | yes | 15:51 |
| korzen | that is what I meant | 15:52 |
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| ihrachys | if anyone wants to send such a patch, I am happy to jump there with reviews. | 15:53 |
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| ihrachys | ok thanks for joining, again | 15:53 |
| ihrachys | and keep up | 15:53 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 15:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 15:53:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-11-14-15.00.html | 15:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-11-14-15.00.txt | 15:53 |
| korzen | thanks, bye | 15:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2016/neutron_upgrades.2016-11-14-15.00.log.html | 15:53 |
| sshank | Thank you. | 15:53 |
| ndahiwade | Thanks | 15:53 |
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| dasanind_ | Thank you | 15:53 |
| asingh_ | thank you | 15:53 |
| sindhu | thanks :) | 15:53 |
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| amrith | ... | 16:01 |
| amrith | anyone here for oslo meeting? | 16:01 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 16:01 |
| amrith | o/ | 16:01 |
| gcb | o/ | 16:01 |
| rloo | o/ | 16:01 |
| HenryG | o/ | 16:01 |
| amrith | #startmeeting openstack-oslo | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 14 16:02:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is amrith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_oslo' | 16:02 |
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| amrith | #chair harlowja | 16:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: amrith harlowja | 16:02 |
| amrith | harlowja, ping | 16:02 |
| amrith | you have a meeting -2 minutes from now ... | 16:02 |
| amrith | who'd like to run the meeting (since harlowja appears to be currently not around) | 16:03 |
| ansmith | o/ | 16:03 |
| amrith | let's give harlowja 1 minute then we can get started | 16:04 |
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| amrith | courtesy ping for amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dims | 16:05 |
| amrith | courtesy ping for dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, gcb, GheRivero, haypo | 16:05 |
| amrith | courtesy ping for HenryG, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz | 16:05 |
| amrith | courtesy ping for lifeless, lintan, lxsli, Nakato, ozamiatin, rbradfor, redrobot | 16:05 |
| amrith | courtesy ping for rpodolyaka, sergmelikyan, sileht, spamaps, sreshetnyak, sreshetnyak, stevemar | 16:05 |
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| amrith | courtesy ping for therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek | 16:05 |
| stevemar | o/ | 16:05 |
| stevemar | amrith: hola | 16:05 |
| stevemar | amrith: you're running the meeting now :O | 16:05 |
| amrith | hi stevemar I'd wanted to discuss something today and no one else started the meeting :) | 16:05 |
| amrith | still waiting for our fearless leader | 16:05 |
| amrith | But since he's not here and it is five minutes past the top of the hour | 16:06 |
| amrith | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: openstack-oslo)" | 16:06 | |
| johnsom | Nothing to report in LBaaS land | 16:06 |
| amrith | i have nothing from trove | 16:06 |
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| rloo | nothing from ironicland | 16:07 |
| gcb | oslo.db master breaks nova unit test , Fixing in https://review.openstack.org/397144 ,so need skip oslo.db release this week | 16:07 |
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| amrith | #info (from gcb) oslo.db master breaks nova unit test , Fixing in https://review.openstack.org/397144 ,so need skip oslo.db release this week | 16:08 |
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| amrith | any others ... also still looking for an alternate chair; any oslo cores wishing to drive, please let me know. | 16:08 |
| amrith | Any other red flags from liaisons? | 16:09 |
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| gcb | amrith, I can help go through the agenda | 16:09 |
| amrith | #chair gcb | 16:10 |
| openstack | Current chairs: amrith gcb harlowja | 16:10 |
| amrith | gcb has the con | 16:10 |
| amrith | go ahead gcb | 16:10 |
| amrith | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo#Agenda_Template | 16:10 |
| gcb | #topic Releases for Ocata | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases for Ocata (Meeting topic: openstack-oslo)" | 16:11 | |
| gcb | Does anyone need oslo.* release this week ? | 16:11 |
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| gcb | ok, I will talk with harlowja to check if we need release something this week | 16:12 |
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| gcb | #topic Ocata specs | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ocata specs (Meeting topic: openstack-oslo)" | 16:13 | |
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| gcb | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/oslo-specs,n,z | 16:13 |
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| gcb | Is there any spec or commit which needs review ? | 16:14 |
| gcb | #topic Open discussion | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-oslo)" | 16:16 | |
| amrith | I have one ... | 16:16 |
| amrith | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394667/ | 16:16 |
| gcb | amrith , it's your turn | 16:16 |
| amrith | thx gcb | 16:16 |
| amrith | so we discussed having a more intrusive way of doing message checksum in the meeting last week | 16:16 |
| amrith | and the consensus was that the oslo team did not want to implement message checksum for the use-case that I have and instead suggested that I use a decorator on *ALL* API methods | 16:17 |
| amrith | and pass a signature down as a formal parameter to the RPC call. | 16:17 |
| amrith | this is very disruptive to the code in the consuming project (like trove) | 16:17 |
| amrith | and so I was hoping I could minimize the disruption by wrapping the dispatcher as proposed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/394667/ | 16:18 |
| amrith | sileht observes that the dispatcher is not in __all__ and while it has no _ in the name it is still considered private | 16:18 |
| amrith | wrapping the dispatcher in this way is very beneficial to trove as we can localize the change for signing messages into two places. | 16:18 |
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| amrith | one on the caller side, where we can wrap cast() or call() and one on the server side where we wrap the dispatcher. | 16:19 |
| amrith | the dispatcher wrapper as shown in this change will verify the signature and pop the signature argument | 16:19 |
| amrith | therefore requiring no further code on the server side | 16:19 |
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| amrith | sileht ^^ | 16:20 |
| gcb | amrith , method with prefix '_' will not be allowed in the future . Do you want kgiusti and silent's more input here ? | 16:21 |
| amrith | yes please | 16:21 |
| amrith | would like a decision one way or the other | 16:21 |
| amrith | I'd of course prefer that the decision be to allow this kind of wrapping | 16:21 |
| amrith | as it would make o.m.rpc easier to use | 16:21 |
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| amrith | especially because the project (oslo) has not shown an interest in taking on the bigger project of implementing message signing. | 16:22 |
| gcb | kgiusti ^^ | 16:22 |
| kgiusti | So what's the argument against making dispatcher public? Or at least some small base class of dispatcher with the methods exposed? | 16:23 |
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| amrith | kgiusti, other than what sileht said in the comments on the review, I have heard of none | 16:23 |
| amrith | On Nov 8, 1:38pm he wrote "What if this object is modified outside ? I don't think we want to support that." | 16:24 |
| amrith | to be clear, I don't agree with the point of view; just relaying it since he isn't here. | 16:24 |
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| sileht | o/ | 16:24 |
| amrith | hi sileht | 16:24 |
| gcb | the code about disallowing private method in oslo.messaging, https://github.com/openstack/oslo.messaging/blob/master/oslo_messaging/rpc/dispatcher.py#L103 | 16:25 |
| sileht | this is not the first time people want to have a custom Dispatcher | 16:25 |
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| sileht | I'm not against making it private, but that need some works because we can't expose it as-is | 16:25 |
| gcb | amrith , you still can pass LegacyRPCAccessPolicy to make private method exposed | 16:26 |
| amrith | In question (for Trove) is the issue that if this dispatcher wrapping is not allowed, I have to decorate over 100 individual API calls and will have to deal with version mismatches in a more painful way than if I could abstract it into oslo. | 16:26 |
| amrith | sorry gcb I don't think that's the same thing. | 16:26 |
| sileht | Because the 'incoming' parameter of the method dispatch is a 'driver' object and must not be exposed outside | 16:26 |
| amrith | sileht, how do we do that additional work to make this expose'able. | 16:26 |
| sileht | I have no idea, I just don't want to expose it until driver stuff are correclty hidden | 16:27 |
| amrith | could we then provide a callback that would only get the arguments and allow the callback to manipulate those? | 16:27 |
| kgiusti | can IncomingMessage present both context and message in it's original form as published by the user? | 16:27 |
| amrith | the arguments (and context) are not driver stuff ... | 16:27 |
| amrith | so could we agree to register a callback that would receive args and context which it can modify and the RPC dispatcher would then dispatch with those modified parameters and context | 16:28 |
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| amrith | and if no callback is provided, proceed as currently | 16:28 |
| amrith | i.e no change | 16:28 |
| kgiusti | Have a minimal public incomingmessage, internally wrap it per driver impl? | 16:28 |
| sileht | kgiusti, that the idea a object with only ctxt/message without driver method | 16:29 |
| kgiusti | sileht: gotcha - encoding the meth+args in internal | 16:29 |
| kgiusti | is internal I mean | 16:29 |
| sileht | but again this allows to sign only a subset of what will be passed to rabbit... | 16:30 |
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| amrith | but since oslo isn't doing the signing (the client is) what is oslo's issue with what actually is signed? | 16:31 |
| sileht | the message have also a serialisation format, a version... | 16:31 |
| amrith | if oslo wants to stipulate what is signed, fine. let oslo do the signing and verification | 16:31 |
| sileht | also only the call will be signed not the answer ... | 16:31 |
| amrith | but barring that, the client is the one doing the signing (not oslo) and so whatever the client can do is all that it can do. | 16:32 |
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| sileht | so currently we are here: the client sign a partial msg, the server check the sig on part of the message, send a unsigned reply, the client accept it | 16:34 |
| sileht | this is not want I call security ... | 16:34 |
| kgiusti | can the serializer/deserializer play a role here? | 16:34 |
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| amrith | sileht, let me see if I can restate this. oslo doesn't want to implement signing in the library (o.m.rpc) but wants to question the level of signing that the client can implement with the limited resources at the clients disposal? | 16:35 |
| amrith | kgiusti, yes it can but that would be implementing signing and verification in the library. | 16:35 |
| amrith | which it seemed like no one wanted to sign up for in the two times that it has come up so far. | 16:35 |
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| kgiusti | not if the application provides serialization/deserialization | 16:36 |
| amrith | yet, no one seems to object if the client uses a decorator to verify signatures. | 16:36 |
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| amrith | kgiusti, the serialization and deserialization are (if I recall correctly) per argument and for the context at this point. | 16:36 |
| kgiusti | unfortunately that wouldn't protect the protocol headers added by the driver | 16:36 |
| amrith | not for the whole lot in a single call. | 16:36 |
| amrith | therefore computing signatures in the serialization/deserialization layer may be problematic. | 16:37 |
| sileht | we have two layer of serialization, the one we expose to the API to get serializable object | 16:37 |
| sileht | and the one driver use to send the msg to the network (json/msgpack/...) | 16:37 |
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| amrith | so where do we go from here? | 16:40 |
| sileht | I don't known, I'm open to proposal, I will just take care that we do not expose internal stuffs | 16:41 |
| amrith | well, I've made two proposals and so far I've been told 'not that one, not that one' | 16:41 |
| sileht | I don't want to question the level of signing, I just raise 'warning' about this falsy secure thing | 16:41 |
| amrith | well, yes, I know that. but the proposal to do the signing in oslo was not acceptable (see last weeks meeting). | 16:42 |
| sileht | I known I see your effort to find a solution | 16:42 |
| sileht | I haven't enouth time to thing about his unfortunatly | 16:42 |
| kgiusti | me either, sadly.... | 16:43 |
| kgiusti | Did anyone ever write a formal spec on adding message signing in o.m.? | 16:43 |
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| amrith | a couple of years ago, yes. markmc | 16:44 |
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| kgiusti | I'd like to take a look at that - understand the reasons it was rejected. | 16:44 |
| sileht | signing was implemented as experimental before oslo.messaging exists and dropped during the creation of the new lib | 16:45 |
| sileht | and infortunatly nobody I have reintroduce this | 16:45 |
| amrith | the implementation there was RPC message signing per the RFC | 16:45 |
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| sileht | the old/previous oslo-rpc layer was offer hook to sign messages | 16:46 |
| amrith | so what's the collective wisdom of the group? y'all have no time, I have the time and inclination to do this but I'd need some direction because clearly I can't come up with something that meets your approval. | 16:47 |
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| sileht | and the project 'kite' was implementing this hooks (this project was abandoned, end of the story) | 16:47 |
| kgiusti | I'd still be in favor of having the actual signing and verification happen "outside" the library.... somehow. | 16:49 |
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| kgiusti | managing the security creds and such - is that something the library proper should do? | 16:50 |
| sileht | me too, I think the best way is to refactor the dispather and expose a hook that take only the ctxt, method, args | 16:50 |
| kgiusti | sileht: +1 agreed | 16:50 |
| amrith | guys, I proposed that last week and I was told no. | 16:50 |
| amrith | I guess I'll wait for y'all to come up with a proposal of how to do this and I'm happy to implement it. | 16:51 |
| amrith | if you want. | 16:51 |
| sileht | amrith, no for the current implementation, not for the idea itself | 16:51 |
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| kgiusti | I think the argument against was that only the app data would be verified, other fields could be hijacked. | 16:52 |
| amrith | well sileht that wasn't what was said last week. it was go away and implement it as a decorator like your sample showed. but no matter, if you are open to having the library do it with callbacks or hooks, let me know how you'd like it done and I'll write it | 16:52 |
| sileht | kgiusti, yeah but if the app what to do not secure sign with this hook, do we care ? | 16:52 |
| amrith | kgiusti, verifying other fields would mean exposing internals; you decide what you want :) | 16:52 |
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| sileht | amrith, this why using oslo.messaging for a secure thing sucks and you should not | 16:53 |
| sileht | using it for this | 16:53 |
| sileht | amrith, and we have recommanded to use REST API last week too | 16:54 |
| amrith | great, that's the other answer I got. don't use o.m and you won't have this problem. easy for you to say, that was decided 4 years ago by some other people who converted from RPC to oslo.messaging. | 16:54 |
| sileht | but that a much bigger change | 16:54 |
| amrith | so yes, the answer I've been getting is consistently that the problem is something trove is doing, so go do it some other way. | 16:54 |
| amrith | fine, I'll do that. | 16:54 |
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| amrith | I have my answer. thanks sileht | 16:55 |
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| amrith | I'm done with this issue, does anyone else have something for open discussion? | 16:55 |
| amrith | if not, maybe we can end the meeting early | 16:55 |
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| amrith | gcb said he'd have to step away as it is close to midnight his time. | 16:56 |
| amrith | if there's nothing else for this meeting, I propose we end ... | 16:56 |
| amrith | going once | 16:57 |
| amrith | going twice | 16:58 |
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| amrith | thanks all | 16:58 |
| amrith | #endmeeting | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 16:58:29 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_oslo/2016/openstack_oslo.2016-11-14-16.02.html | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_oslo/2016/openstack_oslo.2016-11-14-16.02.txt | 16:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_oslo/2016/openstack_oslo.2016-11-14-16.02.log.html | 16:58 |
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| julen | official or unofficial meeting? | 18:16 |
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| julen | official or unofficial meeting? | 18:17 |
| rluethi | julen: unofficial, we're not allowed to have that many official meetings anymore :) | 18:17 |
| julen | pranav just wrote saying that he can't make it | 18:17 |
| julen | ok | 18:17 |
| rluethi | so, regarding testing: | 18:18 |
| julen | so, first of all: congratulations!! that python port is impressive! | 18:18 |
| rluethi | I have a simple initial testing patch on top of the python port. | 18:18 |
| rluethi | thanks :) | 18:18 |
| julen | is it somewhere in the folder? | 18:19 |
| rluethi | I don't know what's the best way to go forward: tox, nosetests, ... | 18:19 |
| rluethi | no, I removed it from the patch and put it into a separate patch. | 18:19 |
| rluethi | reason 1: pranav wanted to do the testing part. | 18:19 |
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| rluethi | reason 2: my testing code is just a proof of concept, it's not working well enough. | 18:20 |
| rluethi | but it could serve as a starting point for you. | 18:20 |
| julen | end functionality testing or just about the code? | 18:20 |
| rluethi | maybe :) | 18:20 |
| julen | sure | 18:20 |
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| rluethi | I was more concerned about infrastructure: where do we put tests, how do we call and automate them etc. | 18:21 |
| rluethi | it could be any kind of tests. | 18:21 |
| julen | rluethi: no problemo | 18:22 |
| rluethi | tox didn't work for me, nosetest and py.test did. | 18:22 |
| julen | my stuff should be arriving in a few days, and then I should just build something | 18:22 |
| rluethi | not sure why. like I said, I never got it finished. | 18:22 |
| julen | hmm.. is that tox something like pep? | 18:22 |
| rluethi | tox is an automation tool that we already use for some things. | 18:23 |
| rluethi | check out the tox.ini file in the repo. | 18:23 |
| julen | aha... | 18:23 |
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| julen | well, let me get the stuff up and running and there won't be infrastructure problems anymore ;) | 18:24 |
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| rluethi | :) | 18:24 |
| rluethi | wrt to the python port: I tested some scenarios (virtualbox, kvm, pxe etc.), but I am sure I did not test all combinations. | 18:25 |
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| rluethi | also, PXE booting with KVM does not work on my ancient Debian system, the code needs a later version of libvirt. | 18:26 |
| julen | well... I just tested the basic cluster on VB | 18:26 |
| rluethi | the most simple smoketest :). | 18:26 |
| julen | uff.. testing all those functionalities on different platforms takes for ever! | 18:26 |
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| rluethi | one reason for test automation. have it done on the openstack CI infrastructure. | 18:27 |
| julen | well... as I mentioned in the e-mail, I guess 90% of training-labs users are interested on just the cluster option... don't you think so? | 18:27 |
| rluethi | you mean what you said about skipping the snapshots? | 18:28 |
| julen | yes | 18:28 |
| julen | I guess 90% of the users just do ./st.py -b cluster | 18:28 |
| rluethi | I agree, it makes sense. | 18:28 |
| julen | and play with horizon | 18:28 |
| julen | or the CLI | 18:28 |
| rluethi | most will want the cluster to build as fast as possible. | 18:29 |
| rluethi | and of course correctly. | 18:29 |
| julen | definitely | 18:29 |
| rluethi | As far as I am concerned, we can make that the default. | 18:29 |
| julen | I vote for that :) | 18:30 |
| rluethi | We need to think about how we implement it, though. | 18:30 |
| rluethi | Right now, there's the -q option and the SNAP_CYCLE env variable. | 18:30 |
| julen | implement what? speeding up in general? | 18:30 |
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| julen | well... the SNAP_CYCLE thing is a very geek thing | 18:30 |
| rluethi | IIRC, SNAP_CYCLE=yes is not even handled because it's the default. | 18:31 |
| julen | if someone is geek enough to want snapshots every step, he is also to set an env var before he executes the thing | 18:31 |
| rluethi | SNAP_CYCLE=no was only a quick hack to speed up debugging. | 18:31 |
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| rluethi | I think Pranav agrees with the new default, so we can implement it and submit a patch. | 18:32 |
| julen | and remember my first commit to training-labs ;) | 18:33 |
| julen | add the actual command ;) | 18:33 |
| julen | in the -h | 18:33 |
| rluethi | :) | 18:33 |
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| rluethi | Right. I also agree with your request to add more information to the help message. | 18:34 |
| rluethi | anything else you'd like to discuss? | 18:36 |
| julen | well.. so if there is no urgent request, I will focus my next week(s) on getting my home infrastructure ready, so that I (or we) can test all those combinations of op-sys and targets with a single command | 18:36 |
| julen | otherwise, I'm good | 18:36 |
| rluethi | okay. if you have any further comments re: python port, please let me know. | 18:36 |
| julen | not so far | 18:37 |
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| julen | but I will | 18:37 |
| julen | then, let us meet again next week (or by e-mail) | 18:37 |
| rluethi | okay. see you around. | 18:37 |
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| julen | see you | 18:37 |
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| dave-mccowan | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 14 20:00:10 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dave-mccowan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic roll call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| dave-mccowan | \o/ | 20:00 |
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| redrobot | o/ | 20:00 |
| arunkant | o/ | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | hi arunkant redrobot | 20:00 |
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| alee | o/ | 20:01 |
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| diazjf | o/ | 20:01 |
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| dave-mccowan | the faithful barbicaneers have gathered :-) | 20:02 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic Patches for CLI Updates | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Patches for CLI Updates (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| dave-mccowan | redrobot has done some great work on this. what's the latest? | 20:03 |
| redrobot | I was waiting on reviews | 20:04 |
| redrobot | looks like Kaitlin left a review since last I checked | 20:04 |
| woodster_ | o/ | 20:04 |
| redrobot | I'll try to address Kaitlin's comments asap | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | there are 3 patches? | 20:05 |
| redrobot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388267/ | 20:05 |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388267/ | 20:05 |
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| redrobot | ^^ adds the field name renames | 20:05 |
| redrobot | and | 20:05 |
| redrobot | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388981/ | 20:05 |
| redrobot | ^^ adds --file | 20:06 |
| dave-mccowan | is https://review.openstack.org/382643 part of it as well (secret.id property) | 20:06 |
| redrobot | dave-mccowan it's unrelated... I have to go back and fix that older patch, but it's lower priority than the CLI patches | 20:07 |
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| redrobot | I think we may want to add ID to the Service API first instead of just adding .id to the python lib | 20:07 |
| dave-mccowan | redrobot cool. thanks. i'll review those first two today as well. | 20:08 |
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| dave-mccowan | is there any other CLI improvement work that should be done this cycle? | 20:08 |
| redrobot | I think containers are kind of a pain, but I haven't thought about how to fix them | 20:10 |
| dave-mccowan | something to think about, maybe we can brainstorm on it in the channel sometime. | 20:13 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic certificate order api deprecation | 20:13 |
| dave-mccowan | we've made some progress on this. | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "certificate order api deprecation (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:13 | |
| dave-mccowan | diazjf committed doc changes to alert a reader of docs. | 20:13 |
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| dave-mccowan | at the summit we discussed adding a config switch to turn off the API. the owner is listed as: redrobot or "new contributor" | 20:14 |
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| dave-mccowan | any updates or volunteers for this one? | 20:14 |
| redrobot | no updates from me, busy with other stuff atm | 20:15 |
| redrobot | I could maybe help any new contributors who may want to start chipping away at this | 20:15 |
| dave-mccowan | we had a few new contributors at the summit. has anyone been in touch with them? | 20:16 |
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| dave-mccowan | #topic returning entity_id property | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "returning entity_id property (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:17 | |
| dave-mccowan | at summit we discussed adding returning entity_id properties in our response bodies. in the past we've returned full entity_refs. (full URIs) | 20:18 |
| dave-mccowan | this was redrobot's item too | 20:18 |
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| redrobot | I think we need a spec first? | 20:19 |
| dave-mccowan | redrobot that makes sense. | 20:19 |
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| redrobot | I haven't started a spec on this | 20:19 |
| dave-mccowan | do we need to bump our API version to do this? | 20:19 |
| redrobot | no, it's just adding a new property | 20:20 |
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| redrobot | and we would not remove the secret_ref or xxx_ref properties | 20:20 |
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| dave-mccowan | cool. so this should be a straightforward implementation | 20:21 |
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| dave-mccowan | #topic congrats to arunkant | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "congrats to arunkant (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:22 | |
| diazjf | congrats!!! arunkant :) | 20:22 |
| dave-mccowan | congrats to arun and welcome to barbican-core. his vote last week was unanimous | 20:22 |
| redrobot | \o/ | 20:22 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic any other business | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:23 | |
| dave-mccowan | our review backlog is shrinking. thanks everyone; we've been making steady progress on it. | 20:23 |
| woodster_ | +1 congrats | 20:23 |
| dave-mccowan | next i'd like to shrink our bugs backlog. we have over 70 open bugs. i'm sure many are invalid/dups/user error, etc. | 20:24 |
| woodster_ | word of caution about adding fields to responses....Dev core has been restrictive/prescriptive on doing this without a version bump. Not a barbican concern until they are part of def core I suppose :) | 20:24 |
| dave-mccowan | if we each grab one or two launchad bug a week to triage, we'll be able to shrink that to a more manageable level | 20:25 |
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| dave-mccowan | do we want to bump the version this release for any other reason? | 20:26 |
| dave-mccowan | last chance for any other topics today... | 20:28 |
| woodster_ | I'd say if we aren't part of def core yet, probably not an issue | 20:28 |
| * woodster_ lost track of if barbican is included in def core or not | 20:29 | |
| dave-mccowan | woodster_ we're not. | 20:29 |
| woodster_ | cool, make it easier then :) | 20:29 |
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| dave-mccowan | deprecating certificate orders will involve a version bump. | 20:30 |
| dave-mccowan | i think? | 20:30 |
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| redrobot | what version are we talking about? | 20:31 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, redrobot api version? | 20:31 |
| redrobot | the version in the api routes or the release version? | 20:31 |
| dave-mccowan | i could use a refresher on each of them, i guess. which ones do we need to worry about? | 20:33 |
| redrobot | api routes are the /v1/blah versions | 20:35 |
| redrobot | release version is the version that the rel team gives us | 20:35 |
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| redrobot | seems to go up every release | 20:35 |
| redrobot | currently it's 3.0.0.0 | 20:35 |
| redrobot | There's also the API version which we use in the root response | 20:36 |
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| dave-mccowan | is the v1 in /v1/orders always the same /v1/secrets, or would they be different? | 20:38 |
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| dave-mccowan | i guess something to work out in the spec... | 20:40 |
| redrobot | v1 shouldn't change until we make a v2 | 20:40 |
| redrobot | but the home response may say something like "version": "1.3" or whatever | 20:41 |
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| dave-mccowan | thanks for coming everyone. :-) | 20:43 |
| dave-mccowan | #endmeeting | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 20:43:33 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-11-14-20.00.html | 20:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-11-14-20.00.txt | 20:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-11-14-20.00.log.html | 20:43 |
| kfarr | thanks dave-mccowan | 20:43 |
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| CarolBarrett | #startmeeting product_working_group | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 14 21:01:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is CarolBarrett. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:01 |
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| CarolBarrett | Hi - Who's here for the Product WG meeting? | 21:01 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | me | 21:02 |
| MeganR | Hi | 21:02 |
| GeraldK | Gerald | 21:02 |
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| jamemcc | Hi | 21:02 |
| kencjohnston | o/ | 21:02 |
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| CarolBarrett | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 21:02 |
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| CarolBarrett | You can find the agenda for today's meeting at the link | 21:03 |
| tnarg | hi, Grant here | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | Hi Grant | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | Let's get started. | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Review Ocata Goals & Finalize leads | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Ocata Goals & Finalize leads (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:03 | |
| CarolBarrett | #link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | I updated our wiki page with our discussion from last week | 21:04 |
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| pchadwick | o/ | 21:04 |
| CarolBarrett | Hi pchadwick | 21:04 |
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| pchadwick | thanks carolbarrett | 21:04 |
| CarolBarrett | Any comments/suggestions on the goals themselves? | 21:04 |
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| MadhuKashyap | Hi | 21:04 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | where is the pointer to goals page? | 21:05 |
| jamemcc | Same as the Ocata Cycle Priorities? | 21:05 |
| Rockyg | O/ | 21:05 |
| CarolBarrett | here's a link to the goals: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam | 21:05 |
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| CarolBarrett | They are on our wiki page under meeting and communication info | 21:06 |
| shamail | Hi everyone | 21:06 |
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| CarolBarrett | yes goals/priorities are the same | 21:06 |
| CarolBarrett | hi Shamail | 21:06 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | so we need leads for each project we want to move forward | 21:06 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | and usual questionare to drive? | 21:07 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Do we want to do video intreview in this cycle? | 21:07 |
| CarolBarrett | arkady_kanevsky: I'm not following your comments | 21:07 |
| shamail | Hi Arkady_Kanevsky: We are not doing a design series interview for this cycle since it is a short one | 21:07 |
| shamail | We will instead use this cycle to make the roadmap process more efficient | 21:08 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | for last cycle we interviewed PTL on video and then updated roadmap slides based on it | 21:08 |
| pchadwick | Right - but the assumption this time is that not much will happen on the roadmaps. | 21:08 |
| shamail | The goals/priorities are the overall objectives of our WG, the roadmap is a task we conduct but it is not one of the goals per se. | 21:08 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | do we want to do that deep level again. Or something lighter like email or call with PTL? | 21:08 |
| shamail | pchadwick: +1 except process re-definition | 21:08 |
| pchadwick | shamail: understood | 21:09 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I expect that some project will reduce their deliveries based on resource reductions... | 21:09 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I went to Rally planning in Barcelona for it. | 21:09 |
| CarolBarrett | Good discussion | 21:10 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Agree Ocata is short cycle - so fewer deliveries | 21:10 |
| CarolBarrett | Any changes that we want to consider? | 21:11 |
| shamail | For the goals/objectives? | 21:11 |
| CarolBarrett | yes | 21:11 |
| Rockyg | I think we do need to poll the PTLs at about milestone 2 to see whether they will do all the maintenance they had hoped. | 21:11 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Do we need to review https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#Product_Working_Group - to see if the people are still in place for it? | 21:11 |
| CarolBarrett | rockyg: why? | 21:11 |
| shamail | I think they look good, I think kencjohnston volunteered to also start a sub-team for creating a primer on containers in OpenStack | 21:11 |
| CarolBarrett | Shamail, kencjohnston: should we add that to our priorities for this cycle? | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: +1, not much progress in the last week but on my list. | 21:12 |
| Rockyg | Like Arkady_Kanevsky said, to be able to broadcast where on the Ocata plans the various projects will land | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: CarolBarrett I also wanted to be clear that this is likely a refresh of the existing Containers Guide | 21:12 |
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| shamail | CarolBarrett: I think we should (mainly for tracking purposes) | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | #link OpenStack Containers Guide http://www.openstack.org/assets/pdf-downloads/Containers-and-OpenStack.pdf | 21:13 |
| shamail | Understood kencjohnston, any material is useful in this space… even refreshing existing stuff | 21:13 |
| CarolBarrett | Shamail: I agree, will add it | 21:13 |
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| jamemcc | THe 2nd goal is "Complete the User Story Tracker" - was it already started? Possibly it could overlap our work on something similar for the LCOO working group.. | 21:13 |
| CarolBarrett | #agreed at another priority to the Ocata set for updating the Containers Guide with kencjohnston as lead | 21:13 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 | 21:14 |
| CarolBarrett | #action Carolbarrett update PWG wiki to include add'l priority | 21:14 |
| GeraldK | if you are about adding new prios for Ocata, what about adding the capacity mgmt user story. unfortunately, I think I had missed last week's meeting where this was discussed and not put among the prios. | 21:14 |
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| CarolBarrett | jamemcc: Yes, the user story tracker is generally done and now needs to get hosted on OpenStack infrastructure and have some add'l testing to check for robustness | 21:15 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Shamail, what do you need for projects roadmap update? | 21:15 |
| shamail | jamemcc: Yes, it has already been started… the prototype is built using this ref. doc: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_yCSDGnhIbzRUxQUE5LYWswN2M/view?usp=sharing | 21:15 |
| shamail | Arkady_Kanevsky: Nothing on project roadmaps for now… we are skipping the video interview for Ocata | 21:15 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | OK. just 1K view update slide? | 21:16 |
| CarolBarrett | GeraldK: We had a lot of discussion about adding specific user stories to our goals and decided against it. The teams working on them should have goals,but not the overall WG | 21:16 |
| shamail | Arkady_Kanevsky: We might do roadmap slides again near the end of the release but we haven’t kicked off the sub-team yet… Nothing on roadmap has been decided yet for the next 3-4 months. | 21:17 |
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| GeraldK | CarolBarrett: okay. thanks for clarification | 21:17 |
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| CarolBarrett | jamemcc: Would you be interested in joining/leading this effort? There is a team to partner with....more resources are always welcome! | 21:17 |
| shamail | We will revisit near the end of the release cycle to discuss whether we will publish a roadmap this cycle or not. | 21:17 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | OK. keep me posted. Where do you want to update project liason ownership? | 21:17 |
| jamemcc | Yes - please put me in contact | 21:18 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Carol ready to move to next topic | 21:18 |
| CarolBarrett | Thanks jamemcc - don't know if I have your email address - can you send me an email: carol.l.barrett@intel.com? | 21:19 |
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| CarolBarrett | #agreed jamemcc will take lead on user story tracker priority | 21:20 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | Looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#Product_Working_Group. we are missing a few projects we are tracking. | 21:20 |
| shamail | Thanks jamemcc! | 21:20 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Can everybody check if they are still covering projects they are sign in there. | 21:21 |
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| CarolBarrett | arkady_kanevsky: Can you send a note on the ML asking people to review/update this? My guess is not everyone is here today. | 21:21 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I will add Rally and me covring them | 21:21 |
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| CarolBarrett | #action arkady_kanevsky send a note on the ML asking people to review/update Cross project liason list | 21:22 |
| CarolBarrett | Let's move on | 21:22 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Definition of Done | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Definition of Done (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:22 | |
| CarolBarrett | In our BCN working session we had a good discussion on this. | 21:22 |
| CarolBarrett | the etherpad link is here | 21:23 |
| CarolBarrett | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG_Session_Oct16_BCN | 21:23 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | Carol - Done. email sent | 21:24 |
| GeraldK | basically we have 2 stages "done": first, after having agreed in the user story and second, after having it address to our satisfaction | 21:24 |
| CarolBarrett | Thoughts on this? | 21:24 |
| pchadwick | Do the PTLs use and DoD for blueprints/specs? | 21:25 |
| pchadwick | s/and/a/ | 21:25 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | not sure. they do link patches to blueprints and specs and keep thme open. | 21:26 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Not sure what is their process for done. | 21:26 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I can ask a couple of PTLs | 21:26 |
| CarolBarrett | pchadwick: sorry, don't understand your comment | 21:26 |
| pchadwick | I was wondering if the development teams already have a definition of done (DoD) in their process? | 21:27 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | <GeraldK> - my understaning we have two options. | 21:27 |
| CarolBarrett | gotcha | 21:27 |
| pchadwick | If we can say that ours is "It's in the repos and specs are defined" then we only need to have that. | 21:28 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | One is when all the blueprints and specs we create for a user story are full completed. | 21:28 |
| pchadwick | The second level is tracked by the dev teams. | 21:28 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | Second is when we created them and projects accept them. We will still to track thme but we do not need the same level of resourecs to drive them. | 21:28 |
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| shamail | We have concept validation (meaning we think we have captured all perspectives) and then implementation (which is when it has moved into project-level artifacts and is being worked on) | 21:29 |
| Rockyg | The specs are done when they are approved. When the BPs associated with the spec are done, then the implementation of the spec is done | 21:29 |
| shamail | I think our view of done should be once the technical teams have picked it up… We still have to track it but we shouldn’t be editting the story any more. Thoughts? | 21:29 |
| CarolBarrett | I think lines 97 thru 101 was the definition that the group in BCN landed on - we wanted to make sure Done was in our control | 21:29 |
| GeraldK | IMHO, DoD is usually applied when things are implemented. so, what term could we use for the "specs ready" stage? | 21:29 |
| pchadwick | shamail: +1 | 21:30 |
| jamemcc | Carol, Seems correct to have 2 phases to done. Want to be able to proceed past User Story with some confidence. I can see missing criteria in the PWG defination - basically that it needs multiple reviewers and some consideration of alternatives. That may be deeper in the process. | 21:30 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I think we still need to definitions. One internal to the team when we can move resources. | 21:30 |
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| shamail | The definition in the the etherpad also aligns with this view of “done" | 21:30 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Another is externa;l to community - when we can report back that user story is completed and functionality is availavbe | 21:30 |
| jamemcc | I think the 2nd Done is still our to make - Development teams can be done with 1 item in a release but we need to decide when it all comes together. | 21:31 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | There is also still expectation whne we put blueprint/spec on their board and they approve it - we provide resources to implement it. | 21:31 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | We is collective product WG member companies folks | 21:32 |
| CarolBarrett | arkady_kanevsky: I agree that when the user story is implemented is the ultimate done. We can't control that, only support with resources and ability to track status | 21:32 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | agree with jamescc - that is our external done definition | 21:32 |
| GeraldK | I agree to the definition of Done as in the Etherpad. After we have filed the specs it is somehow out of our control. still, how would we call the stage when we can close the user story as implementation is complete? | 21:32 |
| GeraldK | "internal done" and "external done" doesn't sound well | 21:33 |
| CarolBarrett | GeraldK: I think we call that implemented. Our "done" would refer to the completion of the requirements gathering, documentation and providing actionable input and resources to the project development teams | 21:33 |
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| GeraldK | okay. | 21:34 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | suggestions for 2 stage completions? | 21:34 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | nameing ofr 2 stages? | 21:34 |
| Rockyg | To paraphrase lots of devs -- if it isn't tested, it doesn't work so our definition of "delivered" should be that th implementation passes acceptance (scenario) tests | 21:34 |
| shamail | What about “validated story” and “user story complete” | 21:35 |
| shamail | after its delivered (from a code perspective), we could say “implemented" | 21:35 |
| jamemcc | @shamail +1 | 21:35 |
| shamail | We own the first two milestones; delivery owns third | 21:35 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: What would need to be completed for validated? ditto for complete? | 21:36 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | how aboud defined and delivered? | 21:36 |
| shamail | For validated = PWG members have added their feedback… we have reached out to other WGs for feedback… and it is all merged into the story | 21:36 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | both start on D which is not great | 21:36 |
| GeraldK | what about "accepted/agreed story" instead of "validated story". what kind of "validation" do we do on a user story that we agree on? | 21:36 |
| shamail | User Story Complete = Implementation plan has been established, specs/bps created | 21:36 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | I like accepted and completed. | 21:37 |
| shamail | Validation was implying needs have been validated by market-centric WGs | 21:37 |
| CarolBarrett | I think that works too | 21:37 |
| shamail | but agreed works too | 21:37 |
| CarolBarrett | Any one have comments on that? | 21:37 |
| GeraldK | okay. so validated is already one step ahead of PWG agreement on a story | 21:37 |
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| GeraldK | agreed -> validated -> done -> implemented | 21:38 |
| GeraldK | ? | 21:38 |
| CarolBarrett | GeraldK: I view is as the steps on line 98 and 99 in the etherpad | 21:38 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | what does done represent? | 21:39 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | agreed - user story approved | 21:39 |
| CarolBarrett | GeraldK: I thought it would be validated (User Story Definition is Complete & Merged into Repo, json file created) | 21:39 |
| shamail | Done IMHO represents when the capability is actually available in OpenStack-Powered clouds. | 21:40 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | validated - json file created & gap analysis done | 21:40 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: Your definition + we have sent notice of the user story to other WGs | 21:40 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | done - all specs/blueprints/projects created and approved | 21:40 |
| shamail | and merged their comments (if applicable) as well | 21:40 |
| CarolBarrett | Shamail: +1 on real definition of done. | 21:41 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | implemented - user story support delivred to Customers | 21:41 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | GeraldK - are these definitions you are using? | 21:41 |
| CarolBarrett | Validated = User Story Definition is Complete & Merged into Repo, json file created, sent notice of the user story to other WGs and merged their comments | 21:41 |
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| GeraldK | Arkady_Kanevsky: no. just trying to summarize the milestones we had been discussing about | 21:42 |
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| CarolBarrett | User Story Complete = Implementation plan has been established, specs/bps created and json file updated | 21:43 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | CarolBarrett - so gap analysis and spec/blueprints/etc are part of done definition? | 21:43 |
| CarolBarrett | arkady_kanevsky: Yes, this is done from PWG point of view | 21:43 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Carol I do not like the ter, User Story Complete. | 21:43 |
| CarolBarrett | User Story Done = User Story Tracker shows all required elements are complete | 21:43 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | It has implication that story has been done and ready for Customers to use. | 21:44 |
| CarolBarrett | arkady_kanevsky: propose another name, I'm fine with changing it | 21:44 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Can we use different term for it? | 21:44 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | user story defined? | 21:44 |
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| pchadwick | +1 | 21:45 |
| CarolBarrett | There are 3 milestones we're trying to define | 21:45 |
| jamemcc | For me the name isn't yet as critical as that there is a 3rd Done - after the multiple Dev done - when the Product Manager says it's all ready for the customer. All this dicussion is making me realize I can see 3 dones. | 21:45 |
| CarolBarrett | If the 1st one is User Story Defined, what is the 2nd one (with specs/blueprints/etc)? | 21:46 |
| jamemcc | User Story Ready | 21:46 |
| Rockyg | third done is passes prod mgr's acceptance tests | 21:46 |
| CarolBarrett | jamemcc: that's right. There's the actual implementation and release of code that enables someone to achieve the user story | 21:46 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | that actually raised a question for me if we want to define 4th - for gap analysis | 21:46 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | especially if need to propose new project. | 21:46 |
| CarolBarrett | User Story Defined, User Story Ready, User Story Implemented? | 21:47 |
| jamemcc | +1 | 21:47 |
| CarolBarrett | arkady_kanevsky: the gaps analysis is part of the 2nd phase (ie. ready for project team implementation) | 21:47 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I suggest we add one more ahead of them - User Story Accepted or use story approved | 21:48 |
| * shamail has to drop (sorry) | 21:48 | |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | carol i think it is too much for one phase. | 21:48 |
| CarolBarrett | Alrighty - this was a more lively discussion that I thought it would be. Can we take this to the ML? Will someone volunteer to summarize this discussion and start the thread? | 21:48 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | suggest we split it into 2 phases | 21:48 |
| pchadwick | carolbarrett: I will send the email | 21:48 |
| CarolBarrett | pchadwick: Thanks! | 21:49 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | thanks pete | 21:49 |
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| CarolBarrett | #action pchadwick summarize the Done discussion and send to ML for further refinement | 21:49 |
| CarolBarrett | We've got 10 mins left | 21:49 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Roadmap refresh plans | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roadmap refresh plans (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:49 | |
| CarolBarrett | I know we touched on this earlier, but think it's good to make sure we all have the same understanding | 21:50 |
| CarolBarrett | Shamail: Can you summarize the plans for this cycle? | 21:50 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | suggest we postpone it to next week when Shamail is back | 21:50 |
| Rockyg | shamail dropped off... | 21:50 |
| CarolBarrett | sorry - didn't see he dropped. | 21:50 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | finish early? | 21:50 |
| CarolBarrett | #action Carol move Roadmap topic to next week's agenda | 21:50 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Opens | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Opens (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:50 | |
| CarolBarrett | Will people be working next monday 11/21? | 21:51 |
| CarolBarrett | Want to make sure we'll have critical mass for a meeting | 21:51 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | yes for 21th | 21:51 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | but I iwll miss 28th | 21:51 |
| Rockyg | can be... | 21:51 |
| pchadwick | I should be available. | 21:52 |
| jamemcc | I should be | 21:52 |
| CarolBarrett | Sounds like most people will be here - I'll be gone, but Shamail has said he could run the meeting on the 21st | 21:52 |
| GeraldK | I will be there | 21:52 |
| CarolBarrett | #agree keep the team meeting on the 21st | 21:52 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 | 21:53 |
| MeganR | I will be here for both | 21:53 |
| CarolBarrett | I'm going to pass on the swift discussion and push to next week | 21:53 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | need to drop. | 21:53 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | have a good week | 21:53 |
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| CarolBarrett | The last think I wanted to pass along was a summary of the Work Flow changes happneing within the Community | 21:53 |
| MadhuKashyap | +1 | 21:53 |
| CarolBarrett | When the PTG registration opened there were a lot of questions in my company, so I worked with Thierry to create a summary to help people plan what events they should attend | 21:54 |
| CarolBarrett | you can find it here | 21:54 |
| CarolBarrett | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zC9I5rR8-Cv8S9Qlt8e8eLxi3CC0JuzsCNH1fZWdRYg/edit?usp=sharing | 21:54 |
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| CarolBarrett | If you have questions pls send them via the ML - others are likely to have the same questions/ | 21:54 |
| MeganR | Carol: thank you for putting this together! | 21:54 |
| CarolBarrett | Anyone else have Opens? | 21:54 |
| MeganR | I'm good | 21:55 |
| GeraldK | thanks Carol for this summary | 21:56 |
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| Rockyg | yeah. Thanks! | 21:56 |
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| CarolBarrett | Glad to do it, hope it's helpful | 21:56 |
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| CarolBarrett | Let's call it a wrap for today. Have a good week! | 21:56 |
| CarolBarrett | #endmeeting | 21:56 |
| MeganR | thank you - you too! | 21:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 21:56:59 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-11-14-21.01.html | 21:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-11-14-21.01.txt | 21:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-11-14-21.01.log.html | 21:57 |
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| jeblair | howdy zuulish people! | 22:00 |
| fungi | mmm meetings... | 22:00 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 22:00 |
| olaph | o/ | 22:00 |
| * morgan_ lurks | 22:01 | |
| * mordred hands everyone a fish from this bucket he found | 22:01 | |
| phschwartz | o/ | 22:01 |
| morgan_ | mordred: uh... | 22:01 |
| jeblair | what do we call ourselves? minions of gozer? i dunno. | 22:01 |
| fungi | i started using remind and wyrd specifically so i wouldn't forget to attend this meeting | 22:01 |
| fungi | and it reminded me! | 22:01 |
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| jeblair | fungi: word. | 22:01 |
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| qwebirc85330 | hi | 22:01 |
| mordred | jeblair: we coudl all just call each other sigourney | 22:01 |
| phschwartz | fungi: lucky you, they never work for things related to my kids school O.o | 22:01 |
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| Shrews | zuul ghouls | 22:01 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 22:01 |
| docaedo | jeblair: pipefitters seems an appropriate name IMO | 22:01 |
| jamielennox | o/ | 22:02 |
| * SpamapS will be driving for a few minutes, and then at the doctor's office, so my latency will be high for responses. Sorry... :-P | 22:02 | |
| adam_g | hiya | 22:02 |
| fungi | there is no meeting, only zuul | 22:02 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting zuul | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 14 22:02:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:02 |
| jeblair | hi! this is our first meeting | 22:02 |
| jeblair | our agenda is: | 22:02 |
| jeblair | to make an agenda | 22:02 |
| jlk | o/ | 22:02 |
| fungi | how meta | 22:03 |
| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 22:03 |
| jeblair | here's an etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TyJWrHtk1w | 22:03 |
| jeblair | it's blank | 22:03 |
| jeblair | what do we want to get out of this meeting? | 22:03 |
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| Shrews | total enlightenment | 22:04 |
| jeblair | please add your name to the etherpad by clicking in the top right | 22:04 |
| Shuo_ | I make one subject on the etherpad | 22:04 |
| Shuo_ | :-) | 22:04 |
| jeblair | Shuo_: that's a good topic, but i want to set it aside right now | 22:04 |
| jeblair | because first i want to know what kind of structure we want to this meeting | 22:04 |
| phschwartz | more organization then the past along with universal guidance for bug management for zuul ( I think storyboard is the choice right not) | 22:04 |
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| Shuo_ | jeblair: agreed | 22:05 |
| jeblair | phschwartz: should we discuss bugs in the meeting? | 22:05 |
| fungi | could probably crib some meeting structure from the infra meetings (announcements, action items, specs, priority efforts, general topics, open discussion) | 22:05 |
| jeblair | fungi: yep, that's an option | 22:05 |
| rcarrillocruz | i think a tasks status update would be good | 22:05 |
| jeblair | just didn't want to assume that's what people wanted | 22:05 |
| rcarrillocruz | to know what everyone is doing , who's stuck, etc | 22:05 |
| phschwartz | jeblair: At the moment, I would not say bugs directly but make sure everyone knows how we want to manage them and is on the same page. | 22:05 |
| jeblair | phschwartz: is that something we should cover every week, or a topic that we should put on an early meeting agenda? | 22:06 |
| mordred | rcarrillocruz: yah - I think making sure we know who is stuck and on what is quite important | 22:06 |
| phschwartz | jeblair: and early meeting agenda I think would do it. | 22:06 |
| jeblair | rcarrillocruz, mordred: yes. part of that should be discoverable in storyboard, but we're probably not there yet. so for now, should we put an "everyone update status" item on the agenda? | 22:07 |
| jeblair | do we want to organize that by person, or topic area, or ...? | 22:07 |
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| rcarrillocruz | maybe topics? cos we have a lot of people getting stuff done, by person may get the section a bit long imho | 22:08 |
| mordred | jeblair: maybe by topic area? the nodepool builder work is parallel to the zuul-tests-enablement work, for instance | 22:08 |
| fungi | going around the table and getting a brief update from each involved participant could be a good way to bootstrap some shared understanding, though doing that every week starts to get cumbersome and rote | 22:08 |
| mordred | yah - 10 people saying "churning on tests" is likely boring | 22:08 |
| mordred | fungi: that | 22:09 |
| pabelanger | +1 for topics | 22:09 |
| jeblair | how about topic area, and at the end, we'll say 'anyone working on something not covered'? | 22:09 |
| rcarrillocruz | ++ ^ | 22:09 |
| fungi | seems as good a plan as any to start, and then can tweak once it's apparent whether or not it's helpful | 22:10 |
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| jeblair | we'll put a list of topics on the agenda, roughly corresponding with the things we think are currently 'in progress', people can report status and discuss each | 22:10 |
| phschwartz | ++ | 22:10 |
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| SotK | sounds sensible | 22:11 |
| fungi | that's relatively similar to how we've been handling our priority efforts portion of the infra weekly meetings | 22:11 |
| jeblair | yeah, though i think in this case, we'll probably hit each item every week, so we can easily detect lack of progress | 22:11 |
| jeblair | are there any other goals people have for this meeting? | 22:12 |
| SpamapS | I'd like to make sure we have an overall status report after the story statuses | 22:13 |
| phschwartz | ++ | 22:13 |
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| jeblair | SpamapS: what does that look like? | 22:13 |
| fungi | like a status summary as an outcome of each meeting, or what/> | 22:13 |
| fungi | ? | 22:13 |
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| SpamapS | Also more of an operators report. "How close are we to doing useful things?" | 22:13 |
| morgan_ | SpamapS: ++ | 22:14 |
| SpamapS | So after the stories, there's an overall strategy that they're all part of. After they're discussed, it's good to evaluate the strategy, and how the overall current goals are progressing. | 22:14 |
| Shuo_ | jeblair: it would be great to find a platform for project lead to discuss/share some tech design and roadmap. For potential non-openstackers to not only input but alos consider whether their scenario is covered here. | 22:15 |
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| SpamapS | Shuo_: yes! That's exactly what I mean. A place to discuss the future, since a story by story review is mostly about the past and present. | 22:16 |
| fungi | like a q&a where you can identify whether a given use case is covered in the current roadmap for the v3 release vs a backlog wishlist item? | 22:16 |
| Shuo_ | jeblair: we can find people to host a face-to-face design meetup (with virtual attendenace capability for remote folks) | 22:16 |
| jeblair | okay, hang on a sec | 22:16 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: i agree that a summary checkpoint after we cover what we're working on might be useful. i don't know what that would look like in practice but we can try it out | 22:17 |
| SpamapS | It shouldn't be q&a. Just a place to surface strategic status while a quorum of zuul community members are here to comment and absorb | 22:17 |
| jeblair | SpamapS, Shuo_: i heard you two say very different things | 22:17 |
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| jeblair | i heard Shuo_ asking about future design work, which is very different from progress | 22:18 |
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| SpamapS | jeblair: a tech design and roadmap is a large part of the strategy. | 22:18 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: sure, but i think Shuo_ is asking about making changes past the end of our current roadmap | 22:18 |
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| jeblair | we do have a roadmap now (the zuulv3 spec, plus some follow on specs), and it extends quite a ways | 22:19 |
| jeblair | i believe Shuo_ is asking about taking that even farther | 22:19 |
| jeblair | (which is a great thing to talk about, but i don't think it's "How close are we to doing useful things?" | 22:19 |
| fungi | the official roadmap mostly ends with the implementation of the v3 spec and associated pieces afaik, so it's a sort of event horizon right now (which in some ways is helpful to keep us from getting bogged down designing more features before we're done making the ones we've currently identified into reality) | 22:19 |
| SpamapS | OK yeah. I think the mailing list and spec review are the best places to discuss new ideas. IRC meeting is too real time for that IMO | 22:20 |
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| Shuo_ | jeblair: what I meant is what you just said here, agreed. Here is my reason behind that: if a company wants to commit resource, it needs to understand the scope of the project (this is the product management / roadmap side of work).... | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | I thought Shuo_ was more talking about documenting and adjusting the current road map | 22:20 |
| fungi | adjusting the current track to v3 to account for unforeseen problems makes sense, but i'm wary of encouraging too much goalpost-moving | 22:21 |
| jeblair | fungi: right | 22:21 |
| pabelanger | agreed | 22:21 |
| jeblair | so i think i need to write some of this out | 22:22 |
| mordred | perhaps a portion in the meeting for new people to wave, say hi and what their long-term goals are (best as possible) so that we can all be aware of people who may want to do large and exciting things, even if we're not in a place to directly work on those things yet? | 22:22 |
| Shuo_ | jeblair: along with roadmap side, finding a time/platform for newbies to understand the project (code etc.) a bit at early stage, it helps better participation/contribution. | 22:22 |
| Shuo_ | jeblair: this is the next level of explanation/education after roadmap heads up. | 22:22 |
| jeblair | i should make sure this is written up well so it's clear where we think Shuo_ can get answers for what we have now, and how we will handle future development once v3 is out the door | 22:22 |
| SpamapS | There are something like three goal posts, and a golden snitch | 22:23 |
| jeblair | i will follow up on that later | 22:23 |
| mordred | SpamapS: don't forget the bludgers | 22:23 |
| clarkb | mordred: and the beaters | 22:23 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair work with Shuo_ to document roadmap location / process | 22:23 |
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| jeblair | okay so back to SpamapS's thing -- we'll try to produce some kind of summary after our status updates? | 22:23 |
| jeblair | and we'll just see how that goes? | 22:24 |
| jeblair | we might have to invent that process | 22:24 |
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| morgan_ | jeblair: likely we will need to invtent a process, but that is far from the worst thing :) | 22:24 |
| SpamapS | Summary + goal status | 22:24 |
| * morgan_ learns to type. | 22:24 | |
| fungi | we've definitely had lots of feature requests come up that we've punted to a nebulous post-v3 backlog, so i guess having some means to collect those in a more coherent manner might be nice | 22:24 |
| jeblair | yeah, so to mordred's suggestion, which i think is related to Shuo_'s... | 22:25 |
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| fungi | the status summary, unless i'm misunderstanding, seems more like an outcome of the meeting (whether it's some formal summary prose or just trying to make sure the meeting minutes for the task updates make a coherent whole)? | 22:26 |
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| morgan_ | fungi: i think starting with something like the meeting minutes after the infra meeting would be a good starting place | 22:27 |
| morgan_ | more formal prose can be developed as needed | 22:27 |
| jeblair | mordred: i put some stuff on the etherpad, how's it look? | 22:27 |
| fungi | the "how close are we to being able to do useful thing x" bit doesn't seem like it would necessarily be easily extracted from individual status updates on the parts of teh codebase being worked on | 22:28 |
| morgan_ | making sure it's coherant will be part of the write up, but it can be simple to start. | 22:28 |
| morgan_ | fungi: sure, but it shouldn't need to be too in depth to start. | 22:28 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes, though the exercise of synthesising that, and articulating it may be useful | 22:28 |
| fungi | my thinking exactly | 22:28 |
| jeblair | so, i reckon we can try it and see what comes out of it | 22:29 |
| mordred | jeblair: yah | 22:29 |
| fungi | which is why it seems more like an outcome of the meeting rather than a part of the agenda, though i guess it could be a wrap-up collaborative drafting of that summary in-meeting | 22:29 |
| morgan_ | fungi: ++ | 22:29 |
| jeblair | i'm adding an 'other topics' section where we can talk about specific one-time topics | 22:31 |
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| jeblair | should we put the agenda in the wiki and manage it like we do for the infra meeting? | 22:32 |
| phschwartz | jeblair: ++ | 22:32 |
| rcarrillocruz | that works for me, i like that workflow | 22:32 |
| fungi | i'm all for consistency (though i've been toying with the idea of making meeting agenda worklists in storyboard) | 22:32 |
| jeblair | fungi: that's a good idea, but atm, we have a lot of storyboard experimentation going on and i don't want to overdo it :) | 22:33 |
| morgan_ | jeblair: my only concern with the wiki is it was hard to edit for many folks. | 22:33 |
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| morgan_ | jeblair: if that has become less of an isuse, wiki is a good place for now | 22:33 |
| morgan_ | until we have something like storyboard. | 22:33 |
| morgan_ | (if it is needed/materializes) | 22:34 |
| jeblair | if anyone has a problem editing the wiki, please either ask in #openstack-infra or let me know privately | 22:34 |
| fungi | yeah, my storyboard idea was more a long-term thought about being able to get rid of one of our wiki use-cases community-wide | 22:34 |
| Shrews | please, keep it on the wiki | 22:34 |
| fungi | but i agree for this, wiki | 22:35 |
| jeblair | (etherpad is an alternative as well, of course) | 22:35 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair set up meeting agenda wiki page | 22:35 |
| fungi | the downside to etherpads is that it's harder to piece together the update history | 22:35 |
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| jeblair | yeah, the wiki is a little cleaner for this | 22:35 |
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| morgan_ | jeblair: keystone went to etherpad because of the issues with the wiki. but that may not be an issue if the spam + new account limiting has been resolved | 22:36 |
| jeblair | okay, any other meta-topics? | 22:36 |
| morgan_ | i prefer wiki ftr. | 22:36 |
| fungi | morgan_: "resolved" insofar as that we turned new account creation back on a few months ago | 22:36 |
| morgan_ | fungi: then i see wiki as being a better choice than etherpad | 22:36 |
| morgan_ | since this is a new setup. | 22:37 |
| jeblair | how about we jump into some status updates then? | 22:37 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 22:37 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Nodepool Zookeeper work | 22:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Nodepool Zookeeper work (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:38 | |
| * fungi is thrilled that the meeting about meeting was limited to only 35 minutes | 22:38 | |
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| jeblair | Shrews and i have been tag teaming this a bit. mostly shrews. but i totally tagged in for a bit. | 22:38 |
| mordred | fungi: I'm sure we could lengthen that unnecessrily | 22:38 |
| jeblair | i think we're ready to proceed with re-incorporating the builder into nodepool | 22:39 |
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| fungi | the | 22:39 |
| fungi | grrr, i hate where my enter key is | 22:39 |
| Shrews | nodepool builder is now zookeeper enabled (http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html). jeblair has begun enabling tests | 22:40 |
| fungi | the "Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers" spec? | 22:40 |
| fungi | ahh, yep, that's what i was hoping | 22:40 |
| jeblair | i think further work should be based on https://review.openstack.org/396719 and https://review.openstack.org/396749 | 22:40 |
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| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html "Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers" spec | 22:40 |
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| jeblair | which are substantial changes -- they set us up for progress on this, but are conflict magnets | 22:41 |
| mordred | it's maybe worth putting in our mythical future-work idea-pile that at least one human has indicated desire for re-introducing snapshot-based builders in the future | 22:41 |
| jeblair | they are also both things that we didn't really spell out as tasks | 22:41 |
| mordred | (mentioning because one of the patches removes that) | 22:41 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 22:41 |
| jeblair | yep | 22:41 |
| fungi | we never actually filled the "Work Items" section of that spec. should it be retroactively fleshed out? | 22:41 |
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| jeblair | fungi: maybe just put things in storyboard as we think of them? | 22:42 |
| pabelanger | Shrews: jeblair: how many tests are left to enable? Do you need volunteers to help with enabling? | 22:42 |
| fungi | wfm | 22:42 |
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| jeblair | i should add tasks for those two things, there are significant enough to mention, even though the changes are written | 22:42 |
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| clarkb | don't forget to get the integration jobs working again as part of reenabling tests | 22:42 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: of course :) | 22:42 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I don't want them to be overlooekd because they are non voting (they are expected to pass on master) | 22:43 |
| jeblair | so i think it was implied that we would not have snapshot builders, and we have been talking about it for a long time | 22:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: they will not be overlooked | 22:43 |
| fungi | mordred: where did reintroduction of snapshot-based image creation come up? on the removal review? | 22:43 |
| mordred | fungi: in #zuul earlier today | 22:44 |
| pabelanger | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/325339/ too | 22:44 |
| jeblair | i think this might be worth a mailing list thread | 22:44 |
| jeblair | to communicate why/how/when we are removing them | 22:44 |
| fungi | mordred: thanks | 22:44 |
| pabelanger | I know there is some negative reaction to the removal | 22:44 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 22:44 |
| jeblair | and also, alternatives available | 22:44 |
| jeblair | which include better diskimage support | 22:45 |
| jeblair | and, writing a snapshot builder | 22:45 |
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| jeblair | we won't be using it (in fact we haven't used it in a long time) so it's not a priority for us. i also don't think it's a good option if there are alternatives | 22:46 |
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| jeblair | but the model does allow for it, and i think we can support it (in much the same way that we will allow for support of aws, etc, in the future) | 22:47 |
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| jeblair | anyway, i'll send out an email about that | 22:47 |
| fungi | removal of teh feature means much less complication with the port to support combined nodepool + zuul v3, and i wouldn't want to delay having a usable v3 so that snapshot support can get dragged along for the ride | 22:48 |
| mordred | jeblair: I think an email is a great idea. also in the alternatives list is "do nothing- custom images not needed for $usecase" | 22:48 |
| mordred | fungi: +100 | 22:48 |
| jeblair | mordred: yeah. there is a small gap in that right now, we have no way of saying "just use a base image". but i consider that more of a bug that we can address any time. | 22:49 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: re: np tests... that's now at the top of my list. if you want to dig in to, that's great. but it now has my attention | 22:49 |
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| Shrews | pabelanger: i may need help w/ the integration stuff | 22:51 |
| pabelanger | Shrews: great, I can start poking tomorrow too. | 22:51 |
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| fungi | agreed, simply adding trivial support to use a specified existing image without needing to build it would open up to being able to replace image building automation with whatever you want if dib is unsuitable for any reason | 22:51 |
| jeblair | Shrews, pabelanger: the best path for that is to get all of the command unit/func tests working first | 22:51 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 22:51 |
| jeblair | Shrews, pabelanger: because the integration test needs all of those to operate | 22:52 |
| mordred | pabelanger, Shrews: integration is mainly adding zk to the devstack plugin and updating config, yeah? | 22:52 |
| Shrews | jeblair: yeah, that's where i planned to start | 22:52 |
| mordred | fungi: yes | 22:52 |
| mordred | jeblair: yay irc lag - you replied before I said something! :) | 22:52 |
| Shrews | mordred: no idea, which is why i might need pabelanger's help :) | 22:52 |
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| jeblair | cool, i'm going to see if we can squeeze one more topic from our sample agenda in here... | 22:53 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Zuul test enablement | 22:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Zuul test enablement (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:53 | |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: has done many... :) | 22:54 |
| * mordred hands pabelanger the Chalice of Test Re-enablement Freight-train-ness | 22:54 | |
| pabelanger | many indeed | 22:54 |
| * mordred is bad at naming things | 22:54 | |
| jeblair | i expect a merge-flood soon on those | 22:54 |
| rcarrillocruz | hah | 22:54 |
| mordred | jeblair: I think I remember phschwartz asking earlier today in channel about process for grabbing a re-enablement task ... | 22:55 |
| mordred | but it might not have been phschwartz | 22:55 |
| pabelanger | The tests that are left, have required me to dive more into zuul to better understand why things don't work. Likely possible regressions in our v3 code path | 22:55 |
| jeblair | ah, the process is to check https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000773 to see if there is a task for the test you want | 22:56 |
| jeblair | if someone is working on that test, pick another one or ask to help them :) | 22:56 |
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| jeblair | otherwise, create a task for that test and assign it to yourself | 22:56 |
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| jeblair | #info to work on a zuul v3 test re-enablement, use https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000773 | 22:56 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: are those complicated tests assigned to you? | 22:57 |
| pabelanger | yes, each test should have a task now | 22:57 |
| pabelanger | I tried to stay a top of adding them into storyboard before I did git-review | 22:58 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: oh, i meant the ones you haven't pushed up changes for | 22:58 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: "The tests that are left, have required me to dive more into zuul to better understand why things don't work. Likely possible regressions in our v3 code path" <-- those tests | 22:58 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/393887/ is the only 1 right now | 22:59 |
| pabelanger | so far, if I do, I WIP it | 22:59 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: okay. well, what i'm hoping is to find out what tests you're talking about, and to work out how to make progress on them. but we're out of time. so we'll have to take it to #zuul. | 22:59 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 23:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| mordred | yay first meeting! | 23:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 23:00:16 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-11-14-22.02.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-11-14-22.02.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-11-14-22.02.log.html | 23:00 |
| rcarrillocruz | \o/ | 23:00 |
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| olaph | thanks jeblair ! | 23:01 |
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