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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 13 14:00:18 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| *** gongysh has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:00 | |
| cdent | o/ | 14:00 |
| macsz | \o | 14:00 |
| jroll | morning | 14:00 |
| edleafe | Good UGT morning, all! | 14:00 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 14:01 |
| diga | o/ | 14:01 |
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| edleafe | Should be a rather quick meeting today, as there isn't anything on the agenda! | 14:02 |
| edleafe | :) | 14:02 |
| edleafe | #topic Specs and Reviews | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs and Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:02 | |
| edleafe | Even though they weren't on the agenda, I wanted to point out a few: | 14:03 |
| * bauzas waves | 14:03 | |
| edleafe | Traits spec: | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345138/ | 14:03 |
| edleafe | Traits POC series, starting with: | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/377381/ | 14:03 |
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| edleafe | Now that Pike is open, let's get some focus on these | 14:03 |
| edleafe | There is also the Nested Resource Providers series, starting with: | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415920/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | I've been nursing those through several rebases, but more eyeballs on them as far as code correctness would be appreciated | 14:04 |
| edleafe | Anyone have any other specs/reviews to mention? | 14:05 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: dansmith and I had some chats about that on Friday. Likely that will need to be refactored (back to what it kind of looked like originally) | 14:05 |
| cdent | /o\ | 14:05 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: right. And without cries of YAGNI, please make sure that it works with a separate, independent placement service | 14:06 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: ? | 14:07 |
| edleafe | Having Nova use classes defined in Placement can be tricky | 14:07 |
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| edleafe | E.g., Nova doesn't import Neutron classes to work with that serviec | 14:07 |
| edleafe | service | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: right, I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that? :) | 14:08 |
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| edleafe | I got the impression from dansmith that ResourceProvider classes and such belonged at the libvirt layer | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: no. ProviderTree is not a ResourceProvider class. | 14:09 |
| jroll | what I got out of that conversation is that the virt layer should return a dict of resources, e.g. {VCPUS: 1, MEMORY_MB: 2, CUSTOM_FOO: 50} | 14:10 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: it's not a nova.objects object. | 14:10 |
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| jroll | (but maybe I'm on the wrong conversation) | 14:10 |
| edleafe | jroll: I don't have a problem with a dict | 14:10 |
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| jaypipes | jroll: yes, that's the right conversation. The issue is that for nested providers, that dict isn't really something that can store the hierarchy of providers and inventory. So the design question is what thing (scheduler report client? resource tracker? something else?) should be responsible for building that hierarchy of information. | 14:11 |
| jroll | jaypipes: got it | 14:12 |
| jroll | jaypipes: I'm not up to speed enough on nested stuff to comment :) | 14:12 |
| jaypipes | jroll: edleafe argued on the first patch in that series that the virt layer should *not* be the thing that builds that tree of information. so I instead made the scheduler report client responsible for building that. | 14:12 |
| jaypipes | jroll: no worries :) | 14:13 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: my concern was having the virt layer use Inventory objects and such | 14:13 |
| jaypipes | jroll: and dansmith was saying "why not have the virt layer build this information and return it to the resource tracker?" | 14:13 |
| jaypipes | jroll: which is what I had in the first patch in that series ;) | 14:13 |
| jroll | jaypipes: right, so I gathered the right idea, just not the how :) | 14:14 |
| edleafe | IOW, the virt layer should know what it has and report it. It shouldn't know how the placement service represents it internally | 14:14 |
| jaypipes | in any case, this is something that we should have a session about next week I think? | 14:14 |
| edleafe | by all means! | 14:14 |
| jroll | yep | 14:14 |
| jaypipes | :) | 14:14 |
| jroll | makes sense | 14:14 |
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| * jaypipes getting way too hungry for this conversation right now :) | 14:15 | |
| edleafe | Any other specs/reviews? | 14:15 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: well, the ironic inventory one :) | 14:15 |
| * edleafe needs pot of coffee #2 right now | 14:15 | |
| jaypipes | edleafe: needs some TLC today. | 14:15 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: just rebasing TLC, or more? | 14:15 |
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| jroll | jaypipes: so, the ironic patch is the one that started the layering conversation, right? | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: rebasing and reviewing. | 14:16 |
| jroll | IOW doesn't that depend a bit on the outcome of the previous conversation? or would you rather refactor later? | 14:17 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: you need me to rebase, or do you have it? | 14:17 |
| edleafe | jroll: I think it was the whole NUMA mess | 14:17 |
| jroll | edleafe: iirc, dan's argument was that if we fix the layering thing, we don't need all the "if ironic" junk in the RT layer | 14:18 |
| jaypipes | jroll: yes, it started the conversation. but dansmith's comments about layering in that patch led to the nested resource providers series being used as an example of what he might like to see instead.. | 14:18 |
| edleafe | jroll: ah, I see what you mean. Yes, that's true | 14:18 |
| * jroll isn't sure if we want to block on that or not, just wanted to point it out | 14:18 | |
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| edleafe | jroll: well, the idea was that the 'if ironinc' crap was a stopgap for Ocata, but now that that ship has sailed... | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | heh, yeah. | 14:19 |
| jroll | :) | 14:20 |
| edleafe | Looks like we won't be bored next week :) | 14:20 |
| edleafe | Let's move on | 14:20 |
| edleafe | #topic Bugs | 14:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:20 | |
| jaypipes | one thing I definitely do want to keep around from the Ironic inventory patch is the addition of that brand new shiny functional test for the resource tracker. :) | 14:20 |
| edleafe | Any new bugs to discuss? | 14:20 |
| jaypipes | glorious: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404472/34/nova/tests/functional/compute/test_resource_tracker.py | 14:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | on the layering, is the long term plan that the resource tracker dies / only cares about keeping in sync with placement, but we have moved on for now | 14:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | jaypipes: thats actually quite beautiful to see | 14:21 |
| jaypipes | johnthetubaguy: I've gone through quite a few design iterations on the layering stuff :) there's good things and bad things for each approach. basically, just need to hammer this out in a session in ATL I think :( | 14:22 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy and jaypipes: that leads us to the actions from last week... | 14:22 |
| edleafe | #topic Open discussion | 14:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:22 | |
| johnthetubaguy | jaypipes: yeah, it feels that way | 14:22 |
| jaypipes | I can write up a quick email saying "here are the options". let's choose one. | 14:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | jaypipes: that sounds great to me | 14:22 |
| jroll | jaypipes: ++ | 14:22 |
| jaypipes | kk | 14:22 |
| cdent | prepemail++ | 14:22 |
| edleafe | Last week cdent and I had the action assigned to outline the functional tests that we feel are needed, so that others can respond and begin writing them | 14:23 |
| jaypipes | ooh, look a see-dent. | 14:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | having slept on it before the PTG, will be no bad thing | 14:23 |
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| edleafe | We created an etherpad: | 14:23 |
| edleafe | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-placement-functional | 14:23 |
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| jroll | jaypipes: that test is amaze | 14:24 |
| edleafe | It would be great to take that test and use it as the basis for lots more | 14:24 |
| edleafe | The other action was for bauzas, diga and macsz to begin defining the goals for Pike | 14:25 |
| edleafe | Is there something for that? | 14:25 |
| diga | edleafe: we drafted some on etherpad | 14:25 |
| diga | #link- https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-scheduler-pike | 14:25 |
| edleafe | diga: link? | 14:25 |
| edleafe | diga: beat me to it :) | 14:26 |
| diga | edleafe: :) | 14:26 |
| edleafe | So these Pike goals are definitely something we should discuss at PTG | 14:26 |
| diga | edleafe: Yeah, we should | 14:27 |
| diga | By the way, I am able to attend PTG | 14:27 |
| edleafe | A quick read of that page doesn't show too many concrete goals - more like brainstorming | 14:27 |
| edleafe | diga: that's great! | 14:27 |
| diga | edleafe: sorry I am not able to attend PTG :( because travel support issue | 14:28 |
| diga | type mistake | 14:28 |
| edleafe | Can you guys maybe sum up the goals that you think are a) necessary to get done in Pike, and b) would be great but not critical for Pike | 14:28 |
| edleafe | diga: :( | 14:29 |
| diga | edleafe: sure | 14:29 |
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| edleafe | diga: thanks | 14:30 |
| diga | edleafe: is there way to attend remotely for 1 session at least | 14:30 |
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| edleafe | diga: usually it's tough, and with this being the first PTG, who knows? | 14:30 |
| diga | edleafe: okay, NP! | 14:30 |
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| edleafe | diga: I also think ttx said that most rooms won't even have projectors | 14:30 |
| diga | edleafe: ohh.. i see | 14:31 |
| edleafe | If anyone has opinions on what we should set as our Pike goals, please add your thoughts to that etherpad | 14:31 |
| edleafe | So... anything else on your minds? | 14:32 |
| * edleafe is ready to go make more coffee | 14:33 | |
| cdent | I like coffee | 14:33 |
| edleafe | I should mention that we won't be meeting next week, due to PTG | 14:33 |
| edleafe | Next meeting in 2 weeks | 14:33 |
| jroll | woo | 14:34 |
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| edleafe | OK, thanks for coming. Hope to see many of you in Atlanta! | 14:34 |
| diga | ack | 14:34 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 14:34:46 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-02-13-14.00.html | 14:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-02-13-14.00.txt | 14:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-02-13-14.00.log.html | 14:34 |
| diga | bye | 14:34 |
| jroll | thanks edleafe | 14:35 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting neutron_upgrades | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 13 15:00:49 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_upgrades' | 15:00 |
| korzen | hello | 15:01 |
| sindhu | hi | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:02 | |
| ihrachys | 1. stable/ocata is created, master is open for merges | 15:02 |
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| ihrachys | 2. PTG is next week, the final agenda is currently in produce at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-ptg-pike-final | 15:03 |
| electrocucaracha | o/ | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | there is a section for upgrades at line 27 | 15:03 |
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| ihrachys | kevinbenton was going to check with the foundation about room setup, to see if we may/want to split discussions, or we will need to do everything serialized | 15:03 |
| ihrachys | I assume Kevin will update start of this week | 15:04 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: I added a couple of things in the korzen 's etherpad | 15:04 |
| ihrachys | yeah, I am meant to sync that back into the -final | 15:04 |
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| ihrachys | #action ihrachys to sync -upgrades PTG etherpad back into -final | 15:05 |
| ihrachys | #topic Partial Multinode Grenade | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Partial Multinode Grenade (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:06 | |
| sindhu | ihrachys: Is there anyway people who are not attending PTG can participate remotely? | 15:06 |
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| ihrachys | #undo | 15:06 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #topic Partial Multinode Grenade | 15:06 |
| ihrachys | sindhu: practice shows not really. you may talk to PTL or organizers about your options though. | 15:07 |
| manjeets | o/ | 15:07 |
| sindhu | ihrachys: Okay, thanks :) | 15:07 |
| ihrachys | #topic Partial Multinode Grenade | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Partial Multinode Grenade (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:08 | |
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| ihrachys | korzen: any updates about your partial setup of newton vs. ocata on k8s? | 15:08 |
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| korzen | ihrachys, sad news fuel-ccp was not playing nice with me :( I was fixing new failures in the setup but I was not able to test the whole use case :( | 15:09 |
| korzen | I should be able to get you the info bu tomorrow | 15:10 |
| korzen | by* | 15:10 |
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| ihrachys | huh not up to the hype? ;) | 15:10 |
| ihrachys | ok cool, thanks for pushing | 15:10 |
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| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: our goal is add support to rolling upgrades or zero-downtime? we were discussing the other day that the current implementation of grenade restart all the services which is not the desired way in zero-downtime | 15:10 |
| korzen | k8s is not up to the stability level :P | 15:10 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: it's both rolling upgrades and zero API downtime. we have some form of rolling upgrades. | 15:11 |
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| ihrachys | rolling upgrade only means you can upgrade services one by one | 15:11 |
| ihrachys | instead of bringing down the whole cluster | 15:11 |
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| ihrachys | which we have (you can upgrade server without agents) | 15:11 |
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| electrocucaracha | but we have to upgrade all the server nodes at the same time right? | 15:12 |
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| manjeets | upgrading one instance of each service at once while keeping others running | 15:12 |
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| ihrachys | as far as grenade partial linuxbridge job, it's at this point at the same failure rate level as tempest one for the backend, and it's hard to understand if it's specific to grenade, or a general oom-killer/libvirt crashing thing that lingers our gates | 15:12 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: yes, we have to, but that's not part of the definition of rolling upgrades as documented by https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tags/assert_supports-rolling-upgrade.html | 15:13 |
| ihrachys | "This does not require complete elimination of downtime during upgrades, but rather reducing the scope from “all services” to “some services at a time.” In other words, “restarting all API services together” is a reasonable restriction." | 15:14 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: gotcha, thanks | 15:15 |
| * manjeets thought something like running multiple copies of neutron-server and updating one at a time while running other on old version | 15:15 | |
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| ihrachys | manjeets: that's what https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tags/assert_supports-zero-downtime-upgrade.html#tag-assert-supports-zero-downtime-upgrade is for | 15:15 |
| ihrachys | "this tag requires services to completely eliminate API downtime of the control plane during the upgrade. In other words, requiring operators to “restart all API services together” is not reasonable under this tag." | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | while we are at it, there is another one on top of it all, https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tags/assert_supports-zero-impact-upgrade.html#tag-assert-supports-zero-impact-upgrade | 15:16 |
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| ihrachys | that last one forbids even performance degradation during upgrade | 15:16 |
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| electrocucaracha | which nobody has achieved, isn't it? | 15:17 |
| manjeets | not even first ? | 15:17 |
| ihrachys | I think even zero-api-downtime is no one's achievement | 15:17 |
| ihrachys | because it assumes CI setup | 15:18 |
| ihrachys | and that I believe is waiting for dolphm to clear the gate framework for projects to adopt | 15:18 |
| electrocucaracha | well, afaik nova is working on that | 15:18 |
| ihrachys | speaking of which, dolphm do you need any help with defining the framework? where is the work tracked? | 15:18 |
| korzen | nova is working on CI, but are they changing the nova-conductor approach to support running different version of conductor at the same time? | 15:21 |
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| ihrachys | seems like we don't have dolphm around | 15:21 |
| korzen | currently, nova is requiring to upgrade all of your conductors in the same time | 15:22 |
| electrocucaracha | korzen: even when they have OVO already implemented? | 15:22 |
| korzen | electrocucaracha, their ovo approach is also different from what we should cosider | 15:23 |
| korzen | consinder* | 15:23 |
| korzen | their ovo approach is online data migration while save/get but they are also removing old data, marking it with null | 15:24 |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: dolphm is not in his desk, not sure if he is going to work remotely | 15:24 |
| ihrachys | korzen: how does nullifying work with old services reading from there? | 15:24 |
| korzen | ihrachys, it doesn't | 15:24 |
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| korzen | the assumption is that you are using only few format | 15:25 |
| ihrachys | *new you mean? | 15:25 |
| korzen | yea ;) | 15:25 |
| ihrachys | format of what? | 15:25 |
| korzen | the new place of data or new format | 15:26 |
| korzen | format of data | 15:26 |
| korzen | blob version int/bool type | 15:26 |
| korzen | blob instead of int* | 15:26 |
| korzen | I'm working on some draft how we should consider online upgrades, I will publish it tomorrow | 15:27 |
| ihrachys | oh so you upgrade conductors and they all know the new format? | 15:27 |
| korzen | yes | 15:27 |
| ihrachys | meh | 15:27 |
| ihrachys | that's hitting the can :) | 15:27 |
| ihrachys | down the road | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | ok let's move on to | 15:28 |
| ihrachys | #topic Object implementation | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Object implementation (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:28 | |
| ihrachys | korzen: you mentioned you woll work on a write-up | 15:28 |
| ihrachys | I wonder how electrocucaracha's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432494/1/neutron/db/migration/alembic_migrations/versions/newton/online/__init__.py fits in | 15:28 |
| korzen | yes, electrocucaracha great stuff | 15:29 |
| electrocucaracha | I just tried to use the nova approach in our plans | 15:29 |
| korzen | this is one part of the mechanism, the CLI tool | 15:29 |
| korzen | the second part is how to manage old/new format in OVO | 15:29 |
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| ihrachys | yeah, I was only thinking that from code organization perspective, it would make sense to store the actual rules in object modules themselves. | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | and another consideration would be, whether we can reuse code between lazy migration (on object update) and this forced online migration | 15:31 |
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| korzen | in nova and cinder it is done in sql | 15:32 |
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| korzen | one of the cinder example is doing the online data migration without OVO | 15:32 |
| korzen | they are providing the CLI to do it, and some simple code in fetching method to port old data to new format | 15:33 |
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| korzen | in that simple example, they decided to add prefix to some ID | 15:33 |
| ihrachys | I guess we can look at code reuse between OVO update path and new migration path later, and stick to direct sql for now. as for code organization, I would think that maybe objects would register online migration functions through let's say stevedore, and then the CLI tool will consume those. that would allow external subprojects to plug into the system. | 15:35 |
| korzen | ihrachys, that is also a good idea | 15:35 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: thanks for working on the patch, cool stuff | 15:36 |
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| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: no problem, feel free to modify or completely change it | 15:36 |
| ihrachys | korzen: what's the state of port binding OVO integration (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407868/)? I see it passed most jobs, so it ready? | 15:37 |
| korzen | yes, but it still has some problems with tempest | 15:37 |
| korzen | and grenade multinode dvr | 15:38 |
| korzen | I'm not sure where is the issue there | 15:38 |
| korzen | the whole problem seems to be with stale data | 15:38 |
| korzen | we are updating the port binding in OVO, but port db data has stale info about the binding | 15:39 |
| korzen | I'm thinking if we should first work on port OVO adoption to fully address the issues with port binding | 15:39 |
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| korzen | so it is not so trivial as it may looked like | 15:40 |
| ihrachys | I see | 15:40 |
| ihrachys | ok one other patch that I wanted to discuss is | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419152 | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | it adds support for pattern matching for get_* arguments | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | I am specifically looking at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419152/8/neutron/objects/utils.py@34 | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | and I am not sure if I get intent right | 15:43 |
| ihrachys | I thought that if we would expose a general pattern matching (%XXX%), then we could as well match against XXX% as well as %XXX? | 15:44 |
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| ihrachys | I mean, exposing all three would make sense as long as we stick to the existing code in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419152/8/neutron/db/common_db_mixin.py | 15:45 |
| electrocucaracha | but that only applies for strings :S | 15:45 |
| ihrachys | but sqlalchemy exposes .like operator too, so why not sticking to it for all cases? | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | tonytan4ever: ^ | 15:46 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: elaborate | 15:46 |
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| tonytan4ever | ihrachys: sqlalchemy supports pattern matching (%XXX%), XXX% and %XXX as different query API though. | 15:47 |
| electrocucaracha | well, basically the idea that tonytan4ever is doing is the implementation of more filters, in this case he is only covering the scenario for strings | 15:47 |
| electrocucaracha | but I wondering if we have something for filters of dates or strings | 15:48 |
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| electrocucaracha | I've seen patches which also uses those special filters and they ended in classmethod | 15:49 |
| ihrachys | tonytan4ever: but we have .like too? | 15:49 |
| ihrachys | see e.g. http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/latest/core/sqlelement.html?highlight=like#sqlalchemy.sql.expression.ColumnElement.like | 15:50 |
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| tonytan4ever | ihrachys: .like could work, but it still expose the sql details to the user though. e.g: you need to say .like(%foobar%) | 15:51 |
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| tonytan4ever | Where if you use contains, you just need to say .contains("foobar") | 15:51 |
| tonytan4ever | Also ".like" covers the case for startswith and endswith, True that. startswith and endswith can provide short hand for some use case like: | 15:52 |
| tonytan4ever | get all agents name starting with "zoneA-agent" though. | 15:53 |
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| ihrachys | ok I see where you come from | 15:54 |
| ihrachys | I don't particularly hate the %XXX% notation but I guess you can argue it suggests sql | 15:55 |
| ihrachys | ok I will recheck the patch as it stands now | 15:55 |
| tonytan4ever | Thanks. | 15:56 |
| ihrachys | ok there is little time, so a quick thing... | 15:56 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Open discussion | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:56 | |
| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: I added the topic of db prune rows for the ptg | 15:57 |
| ihrachys | I raised the point of memory consumption going nuts in gate before; folks are still looking at it, some data is collected, but we struggle to get it for spawned workers that are of more interest | 15:57 |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: thanks | 15:58 |
| ihrachys | so re: memory, tl;dr is we are still waiting for results that we could work with | 15:58 |
| korzen | ok | 15:58 |
| ihrachys | so far we saw lots of sqlalchemy and oslo.messaging objects | 15:58 |
| * electrocucaracha is still waiting for johndperkins patch | 15:59 | |
| ihrachys | electrocucaracha: which exactly? | 15:59 |
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| electrocucaracha | ihrachys: he has something in mind that can help to reduce memory, more likely he has been busy doing other stuff | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | ok we need to give the room back to openstack | 16:00 |
| electrocucaracha | sure | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | let's follow up in the team channel | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 16:00:26 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2017/neutron_upgrades.2017-02-13-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2017/neutron_upgrades.2017-02-13-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2017/neutron_upgrades.2017-02-13-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| gcb | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 13 16:00:39 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gcb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| johnsom | o/ | 16:00 |
| electrocucaracha | howdy | 16:00 |
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| gcb | courtesy ping for amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dims,dougwig, e0ne, electrocucaracha, flaper87, garyk, gcb, GheRivero,haypo, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz,lifeless, lxsli, Nakato, ozamiatin, rbradfor, redrobot, rloo,rpodolyaka, sergmelikyan, sileht, spamaps, sreshetnyak, sreshetnyak, stevemar,therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:01 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 16:01 |
| ozamiatin | o/ | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | How was that for timing? | 16:01 |
| rloo | o/ | 16:01 |
| toabctl | hi | 16:01 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 16:01 |
| gcb | hello guys, welcome back to oslo :-) | 16:01 |
| gcb | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:01 | |
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| johnsom | Nothing from team Octavia | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | gcb, No redflag but I do have a spec I should make you aware of. Hold on. | 16:02 |
| rloo | nothing i'm aware of from ironic | 16:02 |
| gcb | nova breaks due to remove config option verbose , and fix in https://review.openstack.org/432253, please help review | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | gcb, So we have this proposed for Cinder: https://review.openstack.org/432498 | 16:02 |
| electrocucaracha | nothing from Neutron | 16:03 |
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| jungleboyj | Looks like a good thing but it will have impacts on oslo.db | 16:03 |
| rpodolyaka | jungleboyj: the only thing I saw so far was adding a new option ,that's not used anywhere | 16:03 |
| gcb | jungleboyj, I think oslo.db core reviewers have discussed this in ML | 16:03 |
| rpodolyaka | to specify the mysql engine to be used | 16:04 |
| rpodolyaka | *storage | 16:04 |
| gcb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427970/ | 16:04 |
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| rpodolyaka | I've starred the Cinder spec, will take a look | 16:04 |
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| gcb | See http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/111418.html for a bit more context | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | So, do you think this is something that oslo will support? | 16:04 |
| rpodolyaka | well, at this point I don't think this will need any specific support from oslo.db | 16:05 |
| rpodolyaka | except for adding of that new config option | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | Ok, we were hoping there would be a way to abstract some of the details into oslo.db to reduce the impact on Cinder. | 16:05 |
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| rpodolyaka | based on the discussion in the ML the consuming projects will need to update their DB schemas | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | Guess we will need to discuss that further in the spec. | 16:05 |
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| gcb | zzzeek has some concern about MySQL cluster , and discussed in the ML | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | Ok, I will take a look at the ML thread and get caught up. | 16:06 |
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| harlowja_at_home | \o | 16:06 |
| gcb | hi harlowja_at_home | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks for the pointers. | 16:06 |
| gcb | jungleboyj, np | 16:07 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb hi mr.newptl :) | 16:07 |
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| gcb | harlowja,_at_home: you'r still my boss lol | 16:07 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:07 |
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| gcb | Any Red flags ? | 16:08 |
| gcb | please help look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432253/ and then let's move on | 16:08 |
| gcb | #topic Releases for Pike | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases for Pike (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:09 | |
| gcb | just talked with release team: " master: we should be ready to open up for new master releases this week; I want to coordinate with the requirements team before we do stable/ocata: those will be held until after the ocata final, unless there is a critical bug" | 16:10 |
| gcb | so we don't plan to release this week until we are informed by release team | 16:10 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb i can give u a demo of how to use my little release program (if u haven't tried it) | 16:11 |
| harlowja_at_home | just remind me | 16:11 |
| harlowja_at_home | basically https://github.com/openstack/releases/blob/master/openstack_releases/cmds/interactive_release.py | 16:11 |
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| gcb | harlowja_at_home, I didn't try it | 16:12 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb it helps do the many releases :) | 16:12 |
| harlowja_at_home | less manual editing of yaml :) | 16:12 |
| gcb | harlowja_at_home: cool , I did some by manual, will try and reach to you if I have questions | 16:13 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:13 |
| gcb | #topic Daily work | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Daily work (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:13 | |
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| gcb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/oslo-pike-tracking | 16:13 |
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| gcb | please update information in section '1. Libraries and focus' if you would like to help | 16:14 |
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| gcb | about bug triage: It seems a lot of open bugs, need volunteer to help triage | 16:16 |
| ozamiatin | gcb, kgiusti: If this is appropriate topic to point on review please take a look https://review.openstack.org/#/c/429639/ | 16:16 |
| kgiusti | ozamiatin: will do | 16:16 |
| ozamiatin | kgiusti: thanks! | 16:16 |
| gcb | we have bug smash in PTG to help reduce number of bugs. | 16:17 |
| gcb | ozamiatin, ack , will | 16:17 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb i can do some triage this week | 16:17 |
| harlowja_at_home | so count me in | 16:17 |
| ozamiatin | thanks gcb | 16:17 |
| gcb | harlowja_at_home: thanks | 16:17 |
| gcb | harlowja, nice guy | 16:17 |
| harlowja_at_home | ha | 16:18 |
| harlowja_at_home | sometimes :-P | 16:18 |
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| gcb | we discussed some about memory footprint growth in last weekly meeting | 16:19 |
| gcb | I didn't follow too much, only know we have try add some trace code to figure out the root cause | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | ah | 16:20 |
| gcb | mtreinish: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/429844/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/428220/ | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | ya, mtreinish and i are still slowly poking at the memory stuff | 16:20 |
| gcb | harlowja_at_home: you should know more details :-) | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | ya, its a WIP as we try to figure out how to get the best data | 16:21 |
| harlowja_at_home | WIP/research | 16:21 |
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| gcb | harlowja_at_home, you prove you're a nice guy again , thanks | 16:22 |
| gcb | #topic Open discussion | 16:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:22 | |
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| gcb | I would raise that remove mox : http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/111774.html | 16:23 |
| harlowja_at_home | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432253/ is funny :-P | 16:23 |
| harlowja_at_home | damn, that option will never go away :-P | 16:24 |
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| gcb | harlowja_at_home: agree, will try my best to remove it in this cycle | 16:25 |
| gcb | also need remove mox/mox3, then we can retire mox3 | 16:25 |
| harlowja_at_home | ya | 16:26 |
| harlowja_at_home | hopefully that's not super-hard | 16:26 |
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| gcb | I think we'll skip next weekly meeting Feb 20 due to the PTG | 16:27 |
| gcb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/oslo-ptg-pike | 16:27 |
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| jungleboyj | Wow, that is next week. | 16:27 |
| gcb | yeah, very close now | 16:27 |
| gcb | just added item: Project updates in Boston Summit, need collect updates | 16:28 |
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| gcb | you can find more details at the bottom of the etherpad | 16:28 |
| * harlowja_at_home reminder i won't be there (family vacation) | 16:29 | |
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| gcb | harlowja_at_home, have a nice vacation | 16:30 |
| harlowja_at_home | thx :-P | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | harlowja_at_home, Hope you are going somewhere fun. :-) Like Atlanta ... I mean, not like Atlanta. | 16:30 |
| kgiusti | harlowja_at_home: we can still assign you bugs, right? ;) | 16:30 |
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| gcb | lol | 16:31 |
| harlowja_at_home | kgiusti sureee | 16:31 |
| harlowja_at_home | jungleboyj http://www.revelstokemountainresort.com/ | 16:31 |
| harlowja_at_home | ^ that's where i'll be | 16:31 |
| gcb | I'm little worried about hosting the meeting and recording meeting minutes, need help from native speaker :-) | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | harlowja_at_home, Nice. | 16:32 |
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| harlowja_at_home | gcb feel free to drag me in for native speaker (unless this is at PTG, then count me out) | 16:32 |
| * kgiusti jealous... | 16:33 | |
| gcb | harlowja_at_home: sure thanks | 16:33 |
| harlowja_at_home | kgiusti u can go up to Killington or something :-P | 16:33 |
| kgiusti | harlowja_at_home: can't. Court order. I'll explain later... | 16:34 |
| kgiusti | :) | 16:34 |
| harlowja_at_home | :-/ | 16:34 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:34 |
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| gcb | anything others want to raise ? | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | nope | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | I am good. | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | do we all get oslo tshirts with the logo on it? | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | *new logo | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | Oooh! Logo wear! | 16:37 |
| gcb | when and where ? | 16:37 |
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| harlowja_at_home | i'm just wondering, not really sure what the foundation is going to do with the new logos | 16:37 |
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| jungleboyj | Given what they are losing on the hotel at the PTG, probably nothing. | 16:38 |
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| gcb | Should we have a way to proposal this ? | 16:39 |
| rloo | what do you mean, 'losing on the hotel'? | 16:39 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb i'm not sure :) | 16:39 |
| rloo | no oslo tshirts for folks not attending ptg harlowja_at_home! (guess that won't incenti-whtever you to go) | 16:40 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:40 |
| harlowja_at_home | :( | 16:40 |
| harlowja_at_home | but but but | 16:40 |
| harlowja_at_home | its not my fault they planned the PTG during the east coasts typical winter vacation :-P | 16:40 |
| jungleboyj | rloo, The unused rooms since so many people are staying at the cheaper Hilton. | 16:40 |
| rloo | jungleboyj: oh, you mean openstack was subsidizing those expensive rooms? yikes. | 16:41 |
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| jungleboyj | Yes, they have to pay for the unused ones. | 16:41 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:41 |
| * rloo thinks that openstack organizers really don't know much about developers | 16:42 | |
| jungleboyj | No comment. | 16:42 |
| rloo | ha ha | 16:42 |
| * rloo wonders how much they are going to have to fork over... | 16:42 | |
| harlowja_at_home | 1 billion trillion | 16:43 |
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| gcb | okay, let's call it a meeting | 16:47 |
| gcb | 3 | 16:47 |
| gcb | 2 | 16:47 |
| gcb | 1 | 16:47 |
| gcb | thanks, everyone | 16:48 |
| gcb | #endmeeting | 16:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 16:48:50 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2017/oslo.2017-02-13-16.00.html | 16:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2017/oslo.2017-02-13-16.00.txt | 16:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2017/oslo.2017-02-13-16.00.log.html | 16:48 |
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| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 16:50 |
| gcb | jungleboyj, :-) | 16:50 |
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| dave-mccowan | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 13 20:00:11 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dave-mccowan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic roll call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| dave-mccowan | \o/ | 20:00 |
| rerobot | o/ | 20:01 |
| dave-mccowan | hi rerobot | 20:02 |
| rerobot | hi dave-mccowan !!! Is it just you and me today? | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | mrhillsman ping | 20:03 |
| kfarr | \o/ | 20:03 |
| mrhillsman | hey | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | we have a few barbicaneers around today. | 20:03 |
| mrhillsman | cool | 20:04 |
| rerobot | Courtesy ping for: alee diazjf woodster jaosorior hockeynut | 20:04 |
| dave-mccowan | the agenda is in the usual spot:https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:04 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic PTG | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:04 | |
| dave-mccowan | PTG is next week. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ptg-barbican-pike | 20:04 |
| dave-mccowan | we have a full agenda, but not many people travelling. | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | the word is that most rooms won't have a projector. | 20:05 |
| rerobot | :-O | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | we can use our laptops. | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | how much time do you want to spend with us rerobot? | 20:06 |
| dave-mccowan | we can leave google hangouts up all day if you want. | 20:07 |
| rerobot | dave-mccowan good question? I figured maybe we can talk about the software crypto blueprint some... maybe a couple of hours? I should be available to jump on hangouts. | 20:07 |
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| dave-mccowan | what time do you want to join us on wednesday? then we can play it by ear after that. | 20:08 |
| dave-mccowan | does anyone have questions about anything on the agenda? | 20:08 |
| rerobot | what time does barbican meetings start on Wed? | 20:08 |
| rerobot | maybe we can sort the topics into specific hour blocks? | 20:09 |
| kfarr | Wondering what the adopt-a-project is? Heard people talking about it last week, but wasn't sure what that entails | 20:09 |
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| rerobot | I was talking to somoene from OSIC ops/engineering the other day | 20:09 |
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| rerobot | sounds like they adopt a couple of projects every cycle to improve the ops side of it | 20:10 |
| rerobot | kfarr ^^ | 20:10 |
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| dave-mccowan | mrhillsman is our adopt-a-project rep. he's in this meeting. | 20:10 |
| mrhillsman | we discussed potentially doing exactly that and got approval to do so | 20:10 |
| mrhillsman | barbican and ironic were identified as best to start with | 20:11 |
| rerobot | mrhillsman \o/ | 20:11 |
| dave-mccowan | rerobot i haven't heard an official start time. how early EST would you want to join us on Wednesday? | 20:11 |
| mrhillsman | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-adopt-a-project-pike | 20:12 |
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| mrhillsman | we would really like to get you alls feedback | 20:12 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic adopt-a-project | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "adopt-a-project (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:12 | |
| mrhillsman | we more or less are thinking about inserting ourselves in your meetings | 20:13 |
| dave-mccowan | mrhillsman we'd definitely like to hear operator feedback on what is needed in barbican. | 20:13 |
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| mrhillsman | and being direct feedback loop for barbican | 20:13 |
| rerobot | dave-mccowan I can do 9 EST, though I might not have fully absorbed my caffeine for the day. :) | 20:13 |
| mrhillsman | and getting more operators involved | 20:13 |
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| dave-mccowan | we've been stuck at a low adoption rate for a long time, and we're not sure exactly why. :-) | 20:13 |
| mrhillsman | cool | 20:14 |
| * rerobot thinks not having an out-of-the-box software only driver may be one reason... | 20:14 | |
| mrhillsman | maybe we can help identify the why and work together on resolving | 20:14 |
| dave-mccowan | it'd be especially nice if the operators' companies can offer code contribution as well, if need to meet the objectives. our list of active contributors has been slowly declining. | 20:14 |
| mrhillsman | we can work together on identifying the why :) | 20:15 |
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| kfarr | This is exciting! | 20:15 |
| mrhillsman | if we can get all your thoughts and ideas on the etherpad that would be great | 20:15 |
| mrhillsman | we have to have some measurables in place to please our superiors :) | 20:15 |
| mrhillsman | so what we have there now is what we just think | 20:16 |
| dave-mccowan | mrhillsman you'd like us to add comments to this pad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-adopt-a-project-pike | 20:16 |
| mrhillsman | indeed | 20:16 |
| mrhillsman | i hope it makes sense | 20:16 |
| mrhillsman | it can change, we just have ideas there | 20:17 |
| dave-mccowan | great. we'll do that. and discuss more at PTG. anything else to add on this topic? | 20:17 |
| mrhillsman | awesome | 20:18 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic Ocata Status | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ocata Status (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:18 | |
| dave-mccowan | RC1 has been out for 10 days now. | 20:18 |
| dave-mccowan | Is there anything we should check before declaring it final? | 20:18 |
| dave-mccowan | rerobot anything special to do at this point? check with any particular distro managers? | 20:19 |
| rerobot | has anyone checked to make sure we can migrate the schema from Newton to Ocata? | 20:19 |
| dave-mccowan | that's a good check. (did we change the schema this release?) | 20:20 |
| rerobot | any bugs open that may need checking? | 20:20 |
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| dave-mccowan | does anyone have extra cycles this week to do some sanity checking? | 20:21 |
| rerobot | I may be able to check it out if I get this ansible deployment working soon | 20:21 |
| dave-mccowan | rerobot using Kolla? | 20:22 |
| rerobot | dave-mccowan openstack-ansible | 20:22 |
| dave-mccowan | ok. i'll wait another day or two, until we get a chance to test a little bit more. our changes were pretty small for this release, so I'm hopefull that we're good to go. | 20:23 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic Summit | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:24 | |
| dave-mccowan | we got an invitation to present "Barbican Project Update" as a slot in the PWG track. | 20:24 |
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| dave-mccowan | I gave myself, kfarr, and rerobot as the presenters (I was allowed to give PTL + two cores) | 20:25 |
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| rerobot | :-O | 20:25 |
| dave-mccowan | we have a couple other barbican related proposals submitted as well. so, be on the lookout for when voting starts. | 20:26 |
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| dave-mccowan | rerobot, kfarr... no obligation on the presentation... but you do get a free ticket. :-) | 20:26 |
| kfarr | Thanks dave-mccowan! | 20:26 |
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| dave-mccowan | #topic Tempest Testing | 20:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest Testing (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:28 | |
| dave-mccowan | kfarr any news? | 20:28 |
| dave-mccowan | i see there's a patch for barbican/glance interaction. | 20:28 |
| kfarr | Dane has a glance image signing scenario test up | 20:28 |
| kfarr | yeah! | 20:28 |
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| kfarr | we are trying to debug why there is not default image file | 20:28 |
| kfarr | (the error is found under the failing non-voting tempest gate) | 20:28 |
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| dave-mccowan | hmm... is that one of the things that devstack removed? | 20:29 |
| kfarr | mayyybeee | 20:29 |
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| dave-mccowan | ya, i think it went the way of the default flavors | 20:29 |
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| kfarr | but it seems there are other scenario tests in the main services that use that file, and they don't seem to be failing | 20:29 |
| kfarr | we'll figure it out! | 20:30 |
| dave-mccowan | :-) | 20:30 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic Any other business? | 20:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Any other business? (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:31 | |
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| rerobot | I did submit a blueprint | 20:32 |
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| rerobot | but I'm going to split it into two as hyakuhei suggested | 20:32 |
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| dave-mccowan | rerobot thanks! rob mentioned your blueprint at the security project irc last week, with the request for security people to review it. | 20:34 |
| dave-mccowan | good news... it got extra attention. | 20:34 |
| rerobot | yep, got some good feedback so far | 20:35 |
| dave-mccowan | i'll plan to have this IRC next week too, even though the PTG will have started. | 20:36 |
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| dave-mccowan | i'll ping folks in the channel Tuesday and Wednesday before release Ocata. | 20:37 |
| dave-mccowan | See ya later... | 20:37 |
| dave-mccowan | #endmeeting | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 20:37:58 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-02-13-20.00.html | 20:38 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-02-13-20.00.txt | 20:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-02-13-20.00.log.html | 20:38 |
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| leong | going to start Product WG irc meeting... | 21:00 |
| leong | #startmeeting product_working_group | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 13 21:00:53 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is leong. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:00 |
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| leong | #topic rollcall | 21:01 |
| shamail | Hi all | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:01 | |
| leong | who is here for PWG meeting? | 21:01 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | hello all | 21:01 |
| GeraldK | hi | 21:02 |
| leong | hi arkady shamail | 21:02 |
| leong | hi geraldk | 21:02 |
| leong | today agenda can be found here | 21:02 |
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| leong | #link Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 21:02 |
| leong | hi heidijoy_ | 21:02 |
| heidijoy_ | Hello! | 21:03 |
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| leong | if you have any item to discuss, feel free to raise up... | 21:04 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Ken and I submitted "update on upgrade story" to Boston summit. AI closed. | 21:04 |
| leong | #topic Action items from last meeting | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:04 | |
| leong | #info Ken and Arkady_Kanevsky submitted "update on upgrade story" to Boston summit. | 21:04 |
| leong | #link last week meeting logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-02-06-21.00.html | 21:05 |
| leong | we brought up the PWG Forum proposal in this morning UC meeting.. | 21:05 |
| leong | it is suggested to discuss after the UC election is closed after this Friday... | 21:06 |
| leong | #info Shamail and Leong will follow up the PWG forum proposal after the UC election as there will be 2 new UC members | 21:06 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 | 21:07 |
| leong | any thing else from last week meeting? | 21:07 |
| leong | #topic "open" gerrit review | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ""open" gerrit review (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:08 | |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | nope. only mid-cycle planning which is a separate topic on agneda | 21:08 |
| leong | ok..i set this as a regular topic.. anything that need attention to review user-stories? | 21:08 |
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| leong | #link user-story review: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/openstack-user-stories+status:open | 21:08 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I would like review for 2 of my tracking pull requests | 21:09 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426613/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/428571/ | 21:09 |
| leong | arkady_kanevsky: are they still Work In Progress? | 21:09 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | see good progress on others including pieters | 21:09 |
| * shamail is slightly distracted while multi-tasking, sorry | 21:10 | |
| leong | or are they ready to review? | 21:10 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | yes WIP | 21:10 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | working on gap analysis. Tus, active on template for it | 21:10 |
| leong | nice | 21:10 |
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| GeraldK | we need one more review for the template: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426994/ | 21:10 |
| leong | that bring to the next item... need core to approve the first revision of gap-analysis template | 21:11 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | but not all pieter's pull requests are moving forward... | 21:11 |
| leong | thanks GeraldK | 21:11 |
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| leong | #link Gap-analysis template: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426994/ | 21:12 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | we need second +2 on Gerald's one | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | leong GeraldK I'm still not onboard with why we need gaps analysis as a separate document | 21:12 |
| leong | hi kencjohnston | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | I'm sorry if I missed the meeting when this was previously discussed | 21:12 |
| shamail | Where would you include it otherwise kencjohnston? Curious | 21:13 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | you had not missed anything. | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | It seems to me like gaps analysis should either happen in the user story, as we iterate on it, or in a cross project spec | 21:13 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | all discussions are on pull request | 21:13 |
| leong | kencjohnston, if you look at existing workflow, there is this gap-analysis phase | 21:13 |
| GeraldK | user story should IMHO not include gap analysis. different persons may work on it. | 21:13 |
| leong | this document is for that phase | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | leong Agreed, but why a separate document? | 21:14 |
| leong | user story only specify "requriements" | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | GeraldK Say more about that? | 21:14 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Ken, what happens when you have a gap that does not have any projects that can cover it? | 21:14 |
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| leong | i believe that was the discussion many months back that we want to take the "gap-analysis" out from the "user-requirements" | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | Cross project spec, leave it in the user story? | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | Does the development community/tc agree that we need to create another artifact that is out of bands of the ones they officially use? | 21:15 |
| GeraldK | the user story might be written by someone with no / little technical background. the gap analysis needs very good knowledge of the different projects | 21:15 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: the gaps analysis is happening before the implantation so cross project spec would not exist yet. It is to identify what are the areas we need to figure out an implementation plan for. If we add it to the user story then we will be adding a lot of technical/implementation details into a document that is generally more concept oriented. | 21:15 |
| AndyU | It would be really great for people like myself who are new to this, to have some side meetings or (?) to learn all of what you're doing to refine the process itself and where things are at. Also how to actively participate most effectively. | 21:15 |
| leong | kencjohnston: what do u mean "another artifact that is out of bands of the ones they officially use" | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | GeraldK +1 | 21:15 |
| leong | this gap-analysis does not replace BP/SPEC/etc | 21:16 |
| shamail | I would advocate for the implementation plan and gaps analysis being a single doc since they both contain implementation/technical details. | 21:16 |
| kencjohnston | leong Well the development community uses specs, blueprints and cross project specs | 21:16 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | gap analysis is idnetify what we need to create in cross-spec, individual projetcs or board. | 21:16 |
| kencjohnston | Well this gap analysis woudl very easily duplicate specs and bueprints in the case where the gap is in an existing project | 21:16 |
| AndyU | It would seem that the gap analysis and the implementation planning have mutual interdependencies and that neither can be done completely independently of the other | 21:16 |
| kencjohnston | Did we create this gaps analysis solely for the cases where new projects are required? | 21:17 |
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| kencjohnston | I thought our part was "define the need/use case" and then reference that in implementation/gaps documents like blueprints specs, etc | 21:17 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Ken, no. We create it so we can document analysis and discuss it in the group before going to cross functioal and projects | 21:17 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: the development effort would still use the existing artifacts. This artifact is for our workflow and not needed for Dev workflow. It is simply there to address the gap between "user story" --> specs/bps. (E.g. How do we define what needs to be done in Dev workflow artifacts to meet this user story) | 21:18 |
| leong | this gap-analysis make sure that all "requirements" defined in user-story.rst are analysed and with actionable plan | 21:18 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | To me is technicaly details for user story. | 21:18 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Leong +1 | 21:18 |
| kencjohnston | so the Rolling Upgrades user stry has a "gaps analysis" | 21:18 |
| leong | +1 shamail: address the gap between "user story" --> specs/bps. | 21:19 |
| kencjohnston | that doesn't include technical details | 21:19 |
| kencjohnston | and should reference blueprints and specs | 21:19 |
| kencjohnston | teh gap between userstory and blueprints and specs shouldn't have technical details right? | 21:19 |
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| kencjohnston | those should be saved for the specs? | 21:19 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: +1 but it will call out "resolve bug X", "add X feature in service", etc | 21:20 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | gap anal;ysis should have enouhg details so we as a group can agree what cross functional spec and projects blueprints we need to do | 21:20 |
| kencjohnston | Let me take a step back, what we hear from teh development community is "I want to know what is important and what the use cases are." What we hear from operators is "I want to be able to communicate what is important and what the use cases are." | 21:20 |
| shamail | The actual contents of what is "add X feature in service" should be a spec/np | 21:20 |
| shamail | bp* | 21:20 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | The person who does gap analysis is not necessary the person how did user sotry or create BP, bugs and specs | 21:20 |
| GeraldK | kencjohnston: the gap analysis does not necessarily contain implementation details, however, someone needs to be familiar with bp and specs and probably even have some more insights into existing projects to be able to perform the gap analysis and identify related bp / specs | 21:21 |
| AndyU | What if the gap analysis reveals some existing's back that would potentially be in conflict with the bigger picture? | 21:21 |
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| leong | an example of gap-analysis doc is here | 21:21 |
| leong | #link gap-analysis for baremetal: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/bare_metal_service_gap_and_overlap_analysis | 21:21 |
| kencjohnston | So should it contain implementation details or not? | 21:21 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | impl details is not a requirement for it | 21:22 |
| shamail | I get what you are saying Kencjohnston too... I think it should remain an optional artifact (a template for those that want to create a gaps analysis is a plus) and it should contain details about the implementation plan based on requirements rather than technical details on the implementation details (that should be reserved for the actual cross project spec/bp/project spec) | 21:22 |
| kencjohnston | For the record, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/bare_metal_service_gap_and_overlap_analysis, reads like a tracker document does it not? | 21:22 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | But if it conflicts how some ohter feature in a project is implemented then we need that info | 21:22 |
| GeraldK | if we leave out the gap analysis phase we would need to re-consider the work flow defined earlier. there, the gap analysis phase is mandatory | 21:23 |
| leong | it is more to keep track of discussion and the output will goes into the tracker | 21:23 |
| kencjohnston | leong So almost like an etherpad? :) | 21:23 |
| leong | if you don't have a discussion, where are you going to have the "output" | 21:23 |
| leong | it is an ether pad now, that's why we are moving into a gap-analysis template so that it can be formally tracked in repo | 21:24 |
| kencjohnston | I think I now understand the need | 21:24 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | if we want gap analysis to be more felxible doc we can have it etherpad.\ | 21:24 |
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| GeraldK | #link https://etherpad.opnfv.org/p/promise_gap_analysis Capacity mgmt gap analysis draft | 21:25 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | easier to discuss and record discussions | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | a bridge between the user story and the tracker, I completely sypathize with that need | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | I'd strongly recommend keeping these docs in an etherpad | 21:25 |
| GeraldK | for the capacity mgmt gap analysis we followed the baremetal example | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | especially given our teams general "time to merge" metrics | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | Maybe move the template to the wiki and point etherpad creators at it | 21:25 |
| kencjohnston | ? | 21:25 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | But we need to havea clear end of gap_analysis step on our workflow when we move to netx step | 21:25 |
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| kencjohnston | How frequently would we expect to edit this document? | 21:26 |
| GeraldK | we had used the etherpad to do the gap analysis. we could convert to RST once we finalized it. | 21:26 |
| leong | information on etherpad will easily get lost, i prefer a system to "version-control" it :) | 21:26 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | The only concern with etherpad that they are not backed up and anybody can change it. | 21:26 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 ofr version control | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | Arkady_Kanevsky "Anybody can change it" is a positive | 21:26 |
| leong | not very often for editing once "agreed" on the completion of gap analysis | 21:27 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | not aftre we are done. | 21:27 |
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| kencjohnston | Everything from the gaps analysis eventually gets translated into the tracker right? | 21:27 |
| GeraldK | my experience: the template was under review in Etherpad for 2 weeks -> almost no feedback. once we had moved it to RST, we had received many additional comments and trigger this discussion here.... | 21:27 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | hard to refer to a doc tha tcan be chnage at anytime | 21:27 |
| leong | depends.. a gap-analysis can say: this requirement need a new project or "completely out of scope" | 21:28 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | agree with gerald. review forced dicipline | 21:28 |
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| kencjohnston | Sorry for the prolonged discussion, I'll +2 the gaps analysis template | 21:28 |
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| kencjohnston | But it would be great to set some guidliens for reviewers of future gaps analysis submissions | 21:28 |
| leong | that also help us to keep track of future AUC contribution, by the way :-) | 21:28 |
| kencjohnston | because generally I'm going to be +2 everything I see right? | 21:28 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | ken it is a good discussion. If we have a better process let's consider it | 21:29 |
| leong | lol kencjohnston | 21:29 |
| AndyU | +1 to guidelines | 21:29 |
| kencjohnston | leong I'm actually serious, I have no idea how to decide if this document is appropriate/sufficient/etc | 21:29 |
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| leong | i would suggest we go for this revision 1 and we can improve along the line | 21:30 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | my approach is lets start somewhere and then improve as we go | 21:30 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | do we want do have this topic for mid-cycle? | 21:30 |
| AndyU | need a way to assess getting consensus of stakeholders who DO know if doc is appropriate/sufficient | 21:30 |
| kencjohnston | to be clear, I'm not talkign about the template, I guess I can ensure the content is correct in the template's format. | 21:30 |
| leong | definitely can discuss that at mid-cycle | 21:31 |
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| kencjohnston | sounds good, sorry again for the prolonged convo. I feel smarter, hopefully you all don't feel dumber. :) | 21:31 |
| leong | that's a good discussion to make everyone align :-) | 21:32 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +2 | 21:32 |
| leong | so let's get "core" to review the template | 21:32 |
| leong | #link Gap-analysis template: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426994/ | 21:32 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | we have 2 +2 on it now | 21:32 |
| GeraldK | kencjohnston: i understand your issue. very difficult for someone to review the gap analysis when you had not been part of the discussion on it or you are no core of the related projects | 21:32 |
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| leong | the user-story-owner /anyone else who drive the user-story will be "technically" to review the gap document | 21:33 |
| GeraldK | thanks. be prepared that we will submit the first example on the capacity mgmt very soon :) | 21:33 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | i will follow suite | 21:34 |
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| leong | let's move on.. | 21:34 |
| leong | anything else on existing user-story-to-review? | 21:34 |
| leong | #topic Midcycle planning | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle planning (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:34 | |
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| leong | #link PWG midcycle planning: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MIL-pwg-meetup | 21:35 |
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| leong | again, please suggest agenda item on the etherpad and please indicate if you will be there for F2F midcycle | 21:35 |
| leong | i want to talk about the location... | 21:35 |
| leong | Arkady_kanevsky.. did you say Dell can host us? | 21:36 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Arkady sent email for possible location at DellEMC | 21:36 |
| shamail | leong: when do we want to finalize the agenda by? My recommendation would be by 2/27 so we have time to prepare materials if needed | 21:36 |
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| shamail | Arkady_Kanevsky: thanks! | 21:36 |
| leong | +1 shamail | 21:36 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Yes. I send email with location nad rought distance from Wed-Th venue | 21:36 |
| leong | i am hoping to get some sense on the location then follow by finalizing the agenda | 21:37 |
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| leong | shall we agreed that to fiinalize the agenda by 2/27? | 21:37 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | sure. | 21:37 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | But let's agree on location first. | 21:38 |
| shamail | Sounds good. | 21:38 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | need to make reservations | 21:38 |
| shamail | Arkady_Kanevsky: can we confirm that location? We seem to be having a hard time finding venues. | 21:38 |
| leong | if we can't get confirmation from members company, the other alternative is to "pay" for the room at coworking-login, which is the same place as ops-midcycle | 21:38 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | I have rooms reserved at Dell facility. | 21:39 |
| shamail | Arkady_Kanevsky: Is DellEMC confirmed? | 21:39 |
| shamail | For 3/13 & 3/14? | 21:39 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | had not aske for hotels near by or transporation to from airport | 21:39 |
| leong | do you have the address? | 21:39 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | yes Mon-Tu | 21:39 |
| shamail | Thanks Arkady_Kanevsky | 21:39 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Dell - Viale Piero e Alberto Pirelli 6, Milano (conf room Vivaldi) - Monday | 21:40 |
| leong | for a group of 10-15 people? | 21:40 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Dell - Viale Piero e Alberto Pirelli 6, Milano (conf room Verdi) - Tu | 21:40 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | same location deiff room | 21:40 |
| shamail | Everyone okay with DellEMC as the host for our midcycle? | 21:40 |
| leong | is about 7 mins drive away from Ops location | 21:41 |
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| leong | i think we can car-pool | 21:41 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | yes for 15 people. Oval table for 10 first day . bigger one for Tu | 21:41 |
| shamail | Great location | 21:41 |
| shamail | leong: can you lock it in? | 21:41 |
| leong | i am fine with Dell location | 21:41 |
| leong | +1 | 21:41 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I will let local team know | 21:41 |
| leong | #agreed PWG midcycle location will be at DellEMC office at Viale Piero e Alberto Pirelli 6, Milano | 21:42 |
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| leong | arkady_kanevsky: please let us know if there anything we need for logistic, e.g. pre-register for entering the building | 21:42 |
| leong | thank arkady | 21:42 |
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| leong | next..the agenda items | 21:43 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | will find out and send email on it and will update etherpad | 21:43 |
| leong | shall we brainstorm here or do it offline and to review next week? | 21:43 |
| leong | i mean the agenda item for PWG midcycle | 21:43 |
| shamail | Leong: next week review is good, I would send a reminder on ML | 21:44 |
| leong | cool | 21:44 |
| leong | #agreed All to suggest PWG midcycle agenda and team will review in next meeting | 21:44 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 | 21:45 |
| leong | #action shamail to email ML about the midcycle agenda item discussion | 21:45 |
| shamail | Thanks leong | 21:45 |
| leong | #action leong and arkady_kanevsky to email ML on the midcycle location | 21:45 |
| * leong time check 15 mins.. | 21:45 | |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I had updated etherpad already with location address | 21:46 |
| leong | one more thing | 21:46 |
| leong | the ops-midcycle, is there any session that PWG want to present/talk at Ops midcycle? | 21:46 |
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| leong | #link Topics/sessions on Ops midcycle: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MIL-ops-meetup | 21:46 |
| leong | do we need "lighting talk" to introduce PWG objective and the user-story-workflow to operator? | 21:47 |
| shamail | leong: +1 | 21:47 |
| AndyU | +1 to educating on user-story-workflow | 21:48 |
| leong | #action leong to propose a "PWG lighting talk" at Ops midcycle | 21:48 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | What about bringing user communities/workload together? | 21:48 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | like HPC, big data, NFV, enterprise, ... | 21:48 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Some education needed on driving reqs thru PWG | 21:49 |
| GeraldK | arkady: +1 | 21:49 |
| shamail | A session (not PWG specific) on how are operators sharing their requirements and success/failures would be a good one. | 21:49 |
| leong | +1 shamail | 21:49 |
| leong | do you want to propose that on the ops etherpad? | 21:50 |
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| shamail | Sure | 21:51 |
| leong | #action shamail to propose a session at ops midcycle on "how are operators sharing their requirements and success/failures" | 21:51 |
| leong | we have 9 mins to the hour.... anything we want to discuss next? | 21:52 |
| leong | shamail/heidijoy_ do you want to provide a quick update on the "roadmap"? | 21:52 |
| leong | #topic Roadmap Update | 21:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roadmap Update (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:53 | |
| shamail | thanks leong, are you here heidijoy? | 21:53 |
| GeraldK | heidijoy has quit 20 mins ago | 21:53 |
| shamail | She isn't here anymore | 21:53 |
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| leong | looks like she dropped | 21:53 |
| shamail | Heidi Joy sent out a survey to the PTLs asking about their plans for Ocata and Pike | 21:54 |
| shamail | So far we have a response from 13 PTLs | 21:54 |
| shamail | And we are reaching out to others as a follow-up | 21:54 |
| leong | #info a survey to the PTLs asking about their plans for Ocata and Pike was sent and so far received response from 13 PTLs | 21:54 |
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| shamail | Foundation has to do a marketing launch tomorrow and they have been working towards that. We have not started on the multi-release roadmap yet. | 21:55 |
| shamail | That's all I have so far | 21:55 |
| leong | i assume that the PWG members will need to help to collate the output after that? | 21:55 |
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| leong | like what PWG has done previously for the community roadmap? | 21:56 |
| leong | shamail: do you need any help from the PWG members here? | 21:56 |
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| AndyU | When future roadmap targets are given, is there any later status tracking/reporting? | 21:57 |
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| leong | that's a good question andyu | 21:58 |
| leong | i don | 21:58 |
| leong | i don't remember there is a "status" tracking on previous roadmap deliverables | 21:58 |
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| leong | except those proposed bp/spec are on tracked | 21:59 |
| AndyU | just wondering... status tracking could be a daunting challenge | 21:59 |
| * leong one mins to hit the bell | 21:59 | |
| shamail | leong: I think we're good for now... next time we would need help is when processing | 21:59 |
| leong | sure! | 21:59 |
| leong | sorry the time fly.... i can't get into the next topic on "Collaboration with LCOO", feel free to reach out/discuss over ML and we can chat about in next meeting | 21:59 |
| leong | any question feel free to follow up on mailing list. | 22:00 |
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| leong | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| GeraldK | bye everyone | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 22:00:41 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-02-13-21.00.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-02-13-21.00.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-02-13-21.00.log.html | 22:00 |
| jeblair | anyone around for a zuul meeting? | 22:01 |
| fungi | i sure am | 22:01 |
| mordred | I love zuul meetings | 22:01 |
| jeblair | mordred: zuul meetings love you too | 22:01 |
| jhesketh | Yep :-) | 22:01 |
| * fungi likes traffic lights | 22:01 | |
| Shrews | I only like zuul meetings as a friend | 22:01 |
| jeblair | fungi: traffic lights do not love you | 22:02 |
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| jeblair | fungi: you may have noticed this | 22:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting zuul | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 13 22:02:40 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:02 |
| *** leong has left #openstack-meeting-alt | 22:02 | |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:02 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-02-06-22.03.html | 22:03 |
| jeblair | i conveniently did not alter the agenda from last week | 22:03 |
| jeblair | seeing as how it still seems relevant :) | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Nodepool Zookeeper work | 22:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Nodepool Zookeeper work (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:04 | |
| jeblair | Shrews: iiuc, we're at "we can probably launch nodes at the ptg" yeah? | 22:04 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 22:05 |
| Shrews | jeblair: yes | 22:05 |
| Shrews | we seem to be launching them in test scenarios, at least | 22:05 |
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| * fungi takes that as a sign | 22:06 | |
| Shrews | and in the gate-dsvm-nodepool job (when i temporarily enabled it) | 22:06 |
| Shrews | http://logs.openstack.org/49/431649/6/check/gate-dsvm-nodepool/c796757/console.html#_2017-02-10_16_38_09_806118 | 22:07 |
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| Shrews | we can't re-enable that job until I get deletion working | 22:07 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 22:08 |
| pabelanger | Shrews: what about moving the exit below our nodepool delete syntax for now? | 22:09 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: we could do that | 22:09 |
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| jeblair | we might have delete soon anyway... :) | 22:09 |
| fungi | that risks sticking around after we fix deletions | 22:09 |
| jesusaur | o/ | 22:09 |
| Shrews | fungi: that was my worry :) | 22:09 |
| jeblair | at least, if it's a choice, i'd rather we just forge on with deleting and then enable the job | 22:09 |
| fungi | unless we track undoing that workaround in the job | 22:10 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 22:10 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: how go the cli tools? | 22:10 |
| pabelanger | good so far, I'm re-enabling skipped tests at the moment. I need to look into alien-list commands | 22:11 |
| pabelanger | I'll have more patches up for tomorrow | 22:11 |
| pabelanger | will need some help with the job-create / job-delete tests, I don't think we have that in zookeeper yet | 22:12 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: no; maybe we should defer those for a little longer? | 22:12 |
| pabelanger | ya, if people are okay with that | 22:12 |
| jeblair | it's a fairly stand-alone feature that i don't think we need for the ptg, so maybe engergy better spent elsewhere for now | 22:13 |
| pabelanger | ack | 22:13 |
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| jeblair | fungi, mordred, Shrews: ^? | 22:14 |
| Shrews | what are the job-create/-delete tests? | 22:14 |
| jeblair | Shrews: it's the auto-hold feature | 22:14 |
| jeblair | we should probably see about renaming the commands to auto-hold too | 22:15 |
| fungi | yeah, i don't feel like we need that implemented before next week | 22:15 |
| jeblair | auto-hold a node when a specific job fails | 22:15 |
| fungi | it shouldn't prevent the planned exercise | 22:15 |
| mordred | I agree | 22:15 |
| jeblair | also, erm, i don't think we can implement it in nodepool :) | 22:15 |
| jeblair | so even better, let's talk about where to put that at the ptg :) | 22:15 |
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| Shrews | yeah, was just wondering how that would work | 22:16 |
| jeblair | (maybe it could become a zuul feature (to instruct nodepool to hold nodes)) | 22:16 |
| jeblair | #agreed defer job-create/job-delete (auto-hold) related work until after the ptg | 22:16 |
| fungi | right, the context for that is primarily in zuul | 22:17 |
| jeblair | yeah, i'm happy that nodepool knows less and less about 'jobs'. :) | 22:17 |
| pabelanger | +1 | 22:17 |
| jeblair | pabelanger, Shrews: anything else on this topic? | 22:18 |
| Shrews | Nope | 22:18 |
| pabelanger | nothing here | 22:18 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Devstack-gate roles refactoring | 22:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Devstack-gate roles refactoring (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:18 | |
| jeblair | rcarrillocruz sends his regrets as he can't make this meeting | 22:19 |
| jeblair | so unless anyone else wants to jump in here, i'll move on? | 22:19 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Zuul test enablement | 22:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Zuul test enablement (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:20 | |
| jeblair | SpamapS and adam_g have been pushing on this recently | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | Not much to report | 22:21 |
| SpamapS | I have been distracted away from the main problem I hit Friday but hope to get back to it tomorrow. | 22:21 |
| jeblair | i'm about halfway through reviewing the current stack; if anyone else wants to review that would be appreciated | 22:21 |
| adam_g | i should have some more cycles to pick away at this starting soon | 22:21 |
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| jeblair | adam_g: \o/ | 22:21 |
| SpamapS | I believe there's a problem with the behind_dequeue test that manifests as a timeout waiting for settle (possibly a bug that makes it never settle) | 22:22 |
| jhesketh | Yep, I need to catch up on reviews and can focus on that | 22:22 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: indeed; i think if someone can sit down with that test and a full pot of coffee, we'd all be the better for it | 22:22 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: thanks! | 22:23 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: I will have about 3 hours to stare at it tomorrow. :) | 22:23 |
| * jeblair guesses: SpamapS enjoy your flight! | 22:24 | |
| jeblair | #Status updates: Zuul Ansible running | 22:25 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Zuul Ansible running | 22:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Zuul Ansible running (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:25 | |
| SpamapS | jeblair: almost.. waiting for a shuttle from Reno -> Tahoe ;) | 22:25 |
| jeblair | oy | 22:25 |
| jeblair | i think my crazy playbook change finally merged | 22:26 |
| jeblair | so we're running playbooks and there's some semblance of rules around inheritance, etc now | 22:26 |
| jeblair | mordred: it looks like https://review.openstack.org/428798 is about ready | 22:26 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: ^ you might be interested in that one too | 22:26 |
| jhesketh | cool :-) | 22:27 |
| jeblair | SpamapS has reservations about the approach there.... | 22:27 |
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| jeblair | i understand the hesitation there and agree with it | 22:27 |
| mordred | I do too | 22:27 |
| pabelanger | Yay | 22:27 |
| jeblair | the only thing i'd add is that we really do need to get that right, because without it, there's pretty much nothing standing between our army of contributors and compromising the credentials we protect our systems and openstack development with | 22:28 |
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| jeblair | i also think we should wear belts and suspenders | 22:28 |
| SpamapS | I think it's 100% worthwhile to pursue a playbook-friendly approach | 22:28 |
| SpamapS | rather | 22:28 |
| mordred | yah. I am of the opinion that neither containment nor ansible hacks are good enough by themselves - and we need to do as good a job as we can on both | 22:28 |
| SpamapS | playbook-author-friendly | 22:28 |
| jeblair | but i want to convey that if we fail at our 'best effort' there, it will be a *significant* failure. | 22:29 |
| mordred | yup | 22:29 |
| SpamapS | However, the zuul-operator-friendly approach is likely to provide a launcher containment mechanism. | 22:29 |
| pabelanger | Ya, going to be a little scary the first time it happens :( | 22:29 |
| SpamapS | I wonder if we should work out a spec for what's required. | 22:29 |
| jeblair | it needs to not happen :) | 22:29 |
| SpamapS | yeah it shouldn't happen. We can think through this. :) | 22:29 |
| SpamapS | I mean, other than SSH'ing to boxes and reading local files, the launcher probably doesn't need to do much else. | 22:30 |
| jeblair | part of why we stopped using jenkins is security related. if we replace it with something worse, zomg. | 22:30 |
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| jeblair | anyway, i don't think anyone disagrees with any of the facts on the ground. i mostly wanted to emphasize that as a matter of approach. :) | 22:31 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:31 |
| SpamapS | so feels like we could spec something pretty narrow out. Like, dib up a tarball with ansible in it, bind mount in the relevant data for the job, and execute ansible-playbook in a significantly hobbled container. | 22:31 |
| SpamapS | but.. needs a spec and some time spent on it | 22:31 |
| mordred | agree. adding the container exceution shouldn't be terribly difficult, it just needs all of our skepticism pointed at it :) | 22:32 |
| SpamapS | also somehow | 22:32 |
| SpamapS | we have to write some piece | 22:32 |
| SpamapS | in Rust | 22:32 |
| SpamapS | ;) | 22:32 |
| * mordred tucks SpamapS back into his rust-hole | 22:32 | |
| * SpamapS sees a setuid Rust binary in our future | 22:32 | |
| jeblair | anyway.... :) | 22:32 |
| jeblair | i still have roles and repo set up on my back-burner | 22:33 |
| SpamapS | actually I wonder if we could leverage privsep | 22:33 |
| jeblair | but i'm switching gears to 'actually get daemons running' this week in prep for ptg, so not sure if they'll be there by then | 22:33 |
| jeblair | mordred: oh, the other thing is, what's the state (or what needs to be done) for telnet console log streaming of shell commands? | 22:34 |
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| jesusaur | jeblair: what needs to be done for repo set up? that sounds like it might be some long-hanging fruit i can pick | 22:34 |
| mordred | jeblair: thank you. I was tyring to remember what the next thing I needed to work on was | 22:34 |
| jeblair | jesusaur: implement the parts that pass through the "repos:" part of jobs to the launcher | 22:36 |
| jeblair | jesusaur: and yeah, that change probably isn't too extensive | 22:36 |
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| jeblair | basically, add it to the parser and model, pass it through json to the launcher, and then make sure the launcher adds it to the merge stack (very similar to what i just did for playbook repo setup) | 22:37 |
| jesusaur | jeblair: cool, i'll take a stab at that this week | 22:37 |
| jeblair | jesusaur: sounds good. i don't know if it has its own story yet | 22:38 |
| jeblair | #topic Progress summary | 22:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress summary (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:38 | |
| jeblair | which brings us to.... :) | 22:38 |
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| jeblair | SpamapS: i think we may have a couple of new stories we could add | 22:39 |
| jeblair | mordred: telnet shell console log streaming | 22:39 |
| SpamapS | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/board/41 | 22:39 |
| jeblair | jesusaur: repo setup in launcher | 22:39 |
| jeblair | jeblair: roles setup in launcher | 22:40 |
| SpamapS | mordred: jesusaur I'll add those and assign the main task to you. | 22:40 |
| mordred | \o/ | 22:40 |
| jesusaur | SpamapS: thanks | 22:40 |
| jeblair | at least, i don't think they already exist. i'm working from memory | 22:40 |
| SpamapS | Does anyone have any issue with the way storyboard is working out? | 22:41 |
| SpamapS | I feel like people are doing a good job of picking up tasks and stories for the bigger things, and I haven't seen much duplication other than accidental test dupes | 22:42 |
| jeblair | my main issue is lack of time to work on boartty | 22:42 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: I'm searching first.. not finding them. :) | 22:42 |
| Shrews | SpamapS: I still avoid it, but I'm probably the oddball | 22:42 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: I've been using boartty and I quite enjoy it, when it doesn't crash :) | 22:42 |
| SpamapS | Shrews: we all seem to know your turf and don't step on it either :) | 22:42 |
| jeblair | let's use the last 15m to finish checking in on ptg prep | 22:44 |
| jeblair | #topic PTG prep | 22:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG prep (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:44 | |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-ptg-zuul | 22:44 |
| jeblair | fungi: did you get a chance to poke at the nodepool metadata question? | 22:45 |
| fungi | nope, was hoping to look at it today | 22:45 |
| jeblair | cool | 22:45 |
| fungi | i have a strong recollection it's greedy right now | 22:45 |
| fungi | and so may pose issues | 22:45 |
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| jeblair | okay, it might be nice to fix that before the ptg if we can | 22:45 |
| fungi | but need to dig into the source code to confirm | 22:45 |
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| jeblair | if anyone wants to volunteer to pitch in on a nodepool v2+v3 thing, see fungi | 22:46 |
| fungi | i want to say we punted on making it possible to have two nodepools coexist in a single tenant until we needed it to do so, which is i guess now :/ | 22:46 |
| jeblair | (or nodepool v0+v3 i dunno) | 22:46 |
| pabelanger | I'm pretty much ready to bring nl01.o.o online starting tomorrow. | 22:47 |
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| fungi | pabelanger: awesome! | 22:47 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: cool, did all those patches get reviewed/merged? | 22:47 |
| pabelanger | not merged, still looking for some more eyes | 22:47 |
| jeblair | i think i reviewed them, but if i missed some pls ping me | 22:48 |
| pabelanger | zuulv3-dev.o.o is a little more complex, trying to get all the puppet things in place, but going to be a slow process. I think for that, I'm going to launch a bare server, and slowly start moving things into puppet. | 22:48 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: that sounds good | 22:48 |
| clarkb | fungi: jeblair just really quickly reading the nodepool v2 code. if you use a different provider name then it will be ignored | 22:49 |
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| clarkb | so call the new one rax-iad-v3-test or something and it should avoid being deleted by prod nodepool | 22:49 |
| jeblair | oh huh, interesting. | 22:49 |
| clarkb | (you'll need to check v3 also has that behavior) | 22:49 |
| clarkb | provider_name is the metadata we attach to instances | 22:50 |
| fungi | clarkb: oh, if it's requiring the provider name to match then we can indeed work around that at least | 22:50 |
| clarkb | and if the value there isn't in the current processes config it passes it over | 22:50 |
| fungi | v3 doesn | 22:50 |
| fungi | 't have leak cleanup yet afaik | 22:50 |
| jeblair | indeed, it doesn't have cleanup yet. | 22:51 |
| Shrews | fungi: it has NO cleanup yet, but will only delete nodes that are registered with ZK anyway | 22:51 |
| Shrews | when ready | 22:51 |
| jeblair | we will probably want to add leak cleanup back in as well later on | 22:51 |
| Shrews | yeah, but that won't be this week, i don't believe | 22:52 |
| fungi | right | 22:52 |
| jeblair | yeah, more of a 'before release' thing | 22:52 |
| jeblair | any other ptg-prep things we should be talking/thinking/doing? | 22:52 |
| jeblair | i sent out my 'zuulv3 primer' email | 22:53 |
| jeblair | hopefully that helps. sorry it's long. | 22:53 |
| jeblair | i know some people read it at least :) | 22:53 |
| clarkb | I skimmed will have to read properly soon | 22:53 |
| jesusaur | will there be a way for those of us not at the ptg in person to follow along from home? | 22:54 |
| jeblair | jesusaur: i don't know that we have firm plans, but we have more than one person asking that | 22:54 |
| jhesketh | jeblair: it was a good email, thanks for putting that together | 22:54 |
| jeblair | knowing us, i'm guessing most of us will have an irc window open | 22:55 |
| fungi | yeah, worst case, someone in the room hanging in irc can pass along things to hack on | 22:55 |
| jeblair | maybe we can have someone connect up to pbx.o.o | 22:55 |
| jeblair | (i'm partly being vague since this is our first one and i don't know what to expect; maybe others have more thoughts) | 22:56 |
| jesusaur | i've never tried to use pbx.o.o, but imo irc is a fine plan | 22:56 |
| clarkb | pdx worked well when I listened into vancouver sessions | 22:57 |
| pabelanger | same for me for Japan | 22:57 |
| jeblair | jesusaur: i think you can help by making sure we know you're around and want to participate; we'll need to make sure we communicate scheduling to you and other remote folks so you know to do that :) | 22:57 |
| clarkb | wow nice typo on pbx clarkb | 22:58 |
| jeblair | jesusaur: hopefully the ethercalc thing will help with that; i don't know if we know what that will look like yet though... | 22:58 |
| fungi | someone has airports on the brain | 22:58 |
| jeblair | clarkb: p[bd]x is awesome. and weird. | 22:58 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone for all the ptg prep! and all the other work! | 23:00 |
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| jeblair | see you next week! | 23:00 |
| fungi | thanks, jeblair! | 23:00 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 23:00 |
| jeblair | (possibly virtually) | 23:00 |
| jesusaur | ++ | 23:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| jhesketh | o/ | 23:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 13 23:00:23 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-02-13-22.02.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-02-13-22.02.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-02-13-22.02.log.html | 23:00 |
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