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| bswartz | .o/ | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| tbarron | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 19 15:01:19 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tbarron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| markstur | hi | 15:01 |
| xyang | hi | 15:01 |
| amito | hello o/ | 15:01 |
| ganso | hello | 15:01 |
| zhongjun_ | hi | 15:01 |
| tbarron | manila courtesy ping: gouthamr zhongjun xyang markstur vponomaryov cknight toabctl bswartz ganso | 15:01 |
| dustins | \o | 15:01 |
| bswartz | \o. | 15:02 |
| tbarron | Hello all! | 15:02 |
| tbarron | bswartz is now *officially* present. | 15:02 |
| bswartz | Indeed | 15:02 |
| bswartz | \o/ | 15:02 |
| vgreen | \o | 15:02 |
| tbarron | #topic announcements | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| tbarron | TC campaigns are underway. Read the ML (archives). vote. | 15:03 |
| tbarron | ^^ #1 | 15:03 |
| tbarron | #2) spec freeze today. specs are on the agenda so we'll talk about the freeze and possible extensions in a moment. | 15:03 |
| tbarron | #3) I plan to cut rocky milestone #1 today for manila, python-manilaclient, manila-ui | 15:04 |
| tbarron | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-April/129542.html | 15:04 |
| tbarron | Today is the deadline. | 15:04 |
| tbarron | Any concerns ^^ ? | 15:04 |
| bswartz | tbarron: are you familiar with the mechanics of cutting tags and everything? | 15:05 |
| bswartz | lmk if you need any he;[ | 15:05 |
| bswartz | help even | 15:05 |
| tbarron | bswartz: thanks! | 15:05 |
| * tbarron has bswartz on speed-dial | 15:05 | |
| tbarron | Any other announcements? | 15:05 |
| tbarron | ok | 15:06 |
| tbarron | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings#Next_meeting | 15:06 |
| gouthamr | "end extensions" :) | 15:06 |
| tbarron | #topic Spec Reviews | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec Reviews (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:06 | |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-rocky-specs | 15:07 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: I take it your remark pertains to these? | 15:07 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: yep, i see two not ready for merge | 15:07 |
| tbarron | ok, sec | 15:07 |
| * vkmc sneaks in late | 15:07 | |
| vkmc | hi o/ | 15:07 |
| gouthamr | \o | 15:08 |
| tbarron | vkmc has been fighting noble battles | 15:08 |
| tbarron | because horizon badly broke manila-ui | 15:08 |
| amito | manila-ui battles? | 15:08 |
| tbarron | amito: yes | 15:08 |
| * amito salutes vkmc | 15:08 | |
| tbarron | Back on the specs .... | 15:09 |
| tbarron | json schema validation merged | 15:09 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/553662/ | 15:09 |
| tbarron | How ready is the access-rule metadata spec? | 15:09 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/551106/ | 15:09 |
| ganso | tbarron: it has just one thing to discuss | 15:10 |
| zhongjun_ | It left one question | 15:10 |
| tbarron | ganso is your concern addressed yet? | 15:10 |
| ganso | I did not see it discussed in the comments | 15:10 |
| gouthamr | +1 I think we should discuss some about this | 15:10 |
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| tbarron | ganso: there was a reply inline | 15:10 |
| ganso | tbarron: yes I saw the reply | 15:10 |
| tbarron | What is the outstanding issue? | 15:11 |
| gouthamr | it shouldn't hold the spec back, but it's worth discussing imo | 15:11 |
| ganso | I asked about changing the endpoint to create access rules to share-access-rules using a PUT method | 15:11 |
| ganso | I would like to know what everyone thinks about this | 15:11 |
| ganso | zhongjun_ is right that it is probably too much to do on a metadata implementation, we could do it later | 15:11 |
| tbarron | PUT instead of the current POST ? | 15:11 |
| zhongjun_ | Do we have to change all the current access APIs to new APIs? | 15:11 |
| bswartz | PUT overwrites an object | 15:12 |
| ganso | so, the old access APIs are actions on the share resource | 15:12 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: no, he's asking to change the API endpoint for creating access rules | 15:12 |
| bswartz | If that's the semantics of what it does, then PUT is more appropriate | 15:12 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: The actually is use the new API instead of all old access rule APIs | 15:12 |
| ganso | the metadata APIs creates a new resource and endpoints. This new resource is a share access CRUD, but it is lacking the create and delete functionality, which is still available through the old way | 15:12 |
| zhongjun_ | ganso: yes, It will too much to do on a metadata inplementation to use new APIs instead of old APIs | 15:13 |
| gouthamr | to create an access rule today you use POST /shares/{share-id}/action | 15:13 |
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| gouthamr | and to delete one you use POST /shares/{share-id}/action | 15:14 |
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| tbarron | access rule is being treated as attribute of share resource | 15:14 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: yes | 15:15 |
| ganso | so, by the end of Rocky, if implemented as proposed in the spec, the access rules resources will have their functionality split between 2 resource endpoints. It looks a bit messy. It is ok for me if we all agree we would like to improve that later and deprecate the way of creating/deleting access rules through POST actions in share resources | 15:15 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: what do you think about that idea? | 15:16 |
| gouthamr | ganso: i disagree that it is going to be a bit messy, the latter part of your statement was my original intent | 15:16 |
| ganso | I am not saying it needs to be done in the access rules metadata, I believe it shouldn't | 15:16 |
| ganso | gouthamr: well it looks messy to me :P | 15:16 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: I would like to save the old API | 15:16 |
| ganso | the reason zhongjun_ wants to not deprecate the old API is because of users. That's my #3 item in the inline response | 15:17 |
| gouthamr | ganso: i'm suggesting a multi-step evolution for the access rules API - let's start with the GET and the new update | 15:17 |
| ganso | gouthamr: yes, a multi-step is the correct way to do this. That is, if we all agree that's what we want. | 15:18 |
| ganso | to achieve that, we would need to discuss that #3 concern | 15:18 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: We use the current common APIs of access rule for a long time, all user know it and used it. We could not change their habit？ | 15:18 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: even multi-step with microversions? | 15:18 |
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| ganso | microversions already avoid breaking applications. zhongjun_ seems concerned with the habit | 15:19 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: If we change this common API, it will let user software broke when they want to simply upgrade manila to the latest | 15:19 |
| zhongjun_ | version. They have to change there software code about the part of the access rule API. | 15:19 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: note that I'm not saying that *you* are responsible for the subsequent steps | 15:19 |
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| zhongjun_ | tbarron: more concerned with the habit and small change for user | 15:20 |
| ganso | zhongjun_: if it is microversioned, shouldn't break any software using the old API | 15:20 |
| tbarron | Are you folks thinking of having a period where both are accepted and the old way is deprecated? | 15:20 |
| ganso | tbarron: yes, the old API would have an upper limit microversion, and would go away when we deprecate v2 | 15:21 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: :) yeah, we just discuss if the API resource should be changed | 15:21 |
| gouthamr | but that would be doing it wrong.. what's the advantage of supporting two endpoints on a given version of the API? | 15:21 |
| ganso | gouthamr: the old version will not have the new features | 15:21 |
| gouthamr | ganso: deprecate v2? | 15:21 |
| gouthamr | :O | 15:22 |
| vkmc | :O | 15:22 |
| ganso | lol | 15:22 |
| ganso | eventually | 15:22 |
| tbarron | Is there general agreement that zhongjun_'s current spec and work don't have to solve the future steps problem, just mention it as outstanding issue? | 15:23 |
| bswartz | deprecation is no big deal | 15:23 |
| tbarron | Or do you folks think we can drive this to a good conclusion now? | 15:23 |
| bswartz | It's the eventual removal of the old behavior where the problems start | 15:23 |
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| bswartz | The sooner you deprecate "bad" APIs the better | 15:23 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: +1 | 15:24 |
| * tbarron remembers to route all customer cases pertaining to this to gouthamr | 15:24 | |
| bswartz | :-D | 15:24 |
| gouthamr | hahaha | 15:24 |
| tbarron | I'm not against doing the right thing, but someone would need to write it up and I can keep it in our backlog. | 15:25 |
| ganso | tbarron: regarding the spec, I don't think there is anything to decide here, but some of us don't like the idea of fixing this future problem, and they don't see it as a problem, so it could maybe never be fixed | 15:25 |
| tbarron | ganso: the question is whether you want to "hold this spec hostage" to resolution of the future problem | 15:25 |
| ganso | I don't | 15:26 |
| ganso | I just kept the -1 to have this discussion | 15:26 |
| tbarron | and then either way, who is going to write up the future problem and drive it to resolution | 15:26 |
| zhongjun_ | If you are a client, you like to change your habit ? changing your all old API to new API? | 15:26 |
| tbarron | ganso: ack | 15:26 |
| ganso | tbarron: yep, it is probably not going to be customer driven, so hardly anyone will pick this up, ever | 15:27 |
| tbarron | OK, sounds like ganso will write another remark in the spec for the record and remove his -1, maybe vote _2 | 15:27 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: the spec does say that one of the APIs will not be supported on API version >=2.43 (~) where zhongjun introduces the new API | 15:27 |
| tbarron | +2 | 15:27 |
| tbarron | Have I got that right? | 15:27 |
| tbarron | Can we merge this one today then? | 15:27 |
| ganso | gouthamr: yep, the GET API will stop working, so it will kinda break users' habit right there, right zhongjun_ ? | 15:27 |
| ganso | tbarron: we will merge it today | 15:27 |
| ganso | correction, the GET API will stop working >= 2.43 | 15:28 |
| tbarron | OK, those who care about the future steps issue should write up a draft spec on the matter and we can backlog it. | 15:28 |
| zhongjun_ | ganso: yes, I also want to let GET API back if we got agreement | 15:28 |
| * gouthamr the "GET" API which is in reality the POST /shares/{share-id}/action | body {'access-list': null} | 15:29 | |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: hmm, are you putting the consensus at risk at this point? | 15:29 |
| ganso | gouthamr: yes, the old GET | 15:29 |
| gouthamr | grrr, /action | 15:29 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: :) | 15:30 |
| ganso | zhongjun_, tbarron: I am not sure we will get agreement on restoring the old GET API | 15:30 |
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| ganso | zhongjun_: we will be marking it with upper microversion limit and we should not go back | 15:31 |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: you need to spend a couple of minutes white-boarding with bswartz, i'm sure you won't feel the same about your concerns | 15:31 |
| tbarron | heh | 15:31 |
| tbarron | let's approve the spec as is. zhongjun_ if you persuade ganso and gouthamr offline we can always revise the spec. | 15:32 |
| zhongjun_ | gouthamr: hah | 15:32 |
| ganso | tbarron: yup, as is it is fine | 15:32 |
| ganso | +2'ed | 15:32 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/546301 correct scenario test spec | 15:32 |
| tbarron | This one has only procedural issues outstanding, right? | 15:32 |
| tbarron | If so, then let's reach out to Nir and get them resolved but not worry about the deadline. | 15:33 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: yes, i can help with this one if the original author's missing | 15:33 |
| tbarron | It's a spec correction. | 15:33 |
| tbarron | Kind of a bug. | 15:33 |
| gouthamr | although, does it *have* to merge today? | 15:33 |
| dustins | I can help with that one as well | 15:33 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: no, that's what I'm saying. | 15:33 |
| tbarron | Let's get it done real soon now though, even if we push the git change ourselves. | 15:34 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552935 access rules priority | 15:34 |
| tbarron | I'm the trouble maker on this one. | 15:34 |
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| tbarron | But I don't think we've talked it through all the way. | 15:34 |
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| tbarron | please read the latest and explain what's wrong with the match most specific first resolution of the ambiguity issue | 15:35 |
| tbarron | we can do it offline and take another week or so | 15:35 |
| ganso | I was ok with the proposal last time I reviewed it but the latest discussion got me confused | 15:36 |
| tbarron | access rules have been a painful part of our history and I don't want to rush a solution until we get a good consensus (if possible) | 15:36 |
| zhongjun_ | I think the point is weather the driver itself support the "most specific rule wins" now | 15:36 |
| bswartz | I think it's just details we need to sort out | 15:36 |
| tbarron | ganso: it is possilbe that I'm confused | 15:36 |
| tbarron | bswartz: well, I don | 15:36 |
| tbarron | don't consider not presenting priorities to the end user | 15:37 |
| tbarron | which is what I propose | 15:37 |
| tbarron | a "detail" | 15:37 |
| bswartz | Well we have to decide what to specify in the case of a tie | 15:37 |
| tbarron | bswartz: now it's possible that I'm just nuts on this one | 15:37 |
| tbarron | bswartz: with my proposal there are no ties | 15:37 |
| bswartz | Oh sorry I missed that | 15:37 |
| ganso | we could return error in case of ties | 15:37 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: the latest comments on it are about not allowing user-defined priorities, so no API changes | 15:38 |
| tbarron | why have ties ever? | 15:38 |
| bswartz | That will make upgrades a bit harder | 15:38 |
| tbarron | we only have conflicts in the api | 15:38 |
| bswartz | tbarron: for backwards compatibility | 15:38 |
| ganso | gouthamr: how would the user choose which priority matters then? | 15:38 |
| gouthamr | ganso: they don't, take a look at the alternative | 15:38 |
| tbarron | and deterministic, no-tie semantics in the access rule engines | 15:38 |
| tbarron | bswartz: so I agree that compatability would need to be thought through BUT | 15:39 |
| zhongjun_ | bswartz: +1 about upgrade | 15:39 |
| tbarron | we don't know what the old behavior actually is except for our favorite back ends | 15:39 |
| ganso | gouthamr: I am not sure I understood, but I'd disagree, because the manager sorting stuff and deciding is deterministic, but could end up in a way opposed to what the user desires | 15:39 |
| tbarron | So that's why I want to think about this one a bit. | 15:39 |
| bswartz | My suggestion is to allow ties and to leave how ties are handled as unspecified (but equal to legacy behavior) | 15:40 |
| ganso | gouthamr: and I didn't see one way to circumvent that and achieve what the user wants | 15:40 |
| bswartz | That makes upgrades and backwards compatibility as painless as possible | 15:40 |
| tbarron | The only thing we don't allow the user to do with my proposal is "mask" out more specific with more general. | 15:40 |
| bswartz | tbarron: But the user may want that | 15:40 |
| tbarron | I'm not convinced that that "use case" isn't a recipe for confusiion and trouble cases with customers anyways and | 15:41 |
| tbarron | we don' | 15:41 |
| tbarron | we don't know that all back ends can do it | 15:41 |
| tbarron | so there are pluses and minuses here I think | 15:41 |
| bswartz | For backends that can't, drivers can easily compensate | 15:41 |
| tbarron | I really don't see the value of the so-called use case. | 15:42 |
| bswartz | The drivers can choose not to send down rules which they know will be shadowed by more general rules | 15:42 |
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| bswartz | I imagine it would be used in transient situations, not on an ongoing basis | 15:42 |
| tbarron | It's quite contrived. | 15:42 |
| ganso | bswartz: I am concerned by how to implement such logic, because there are far too many combinations, and the user may want to intentionally do that | 15:42 |
| bswartz | For example, if I want to force all my shares to read only for a short period while I fix something, but I don't want to have to delete all my rules out of manila to achieve that | 15:43 |
| tbarron | bswartz: you are creative :) | 15:43 |
| ganso | bswartz: +1 | 15:43 |
| tbarron | Let's continue this discussion in the review for one more week. I promise not to be a blocker if | 15:44 |
| tbarron | I can't persuade the community. | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | that is a great use case that needs to be mentioned on the spec ^ | 15:44 |
| bswartz | My bigger concern is how we implement backwards compatibility | 15:44 |
| bswartz | And for that, we need to allow ties with legacy behavior | 15:45 |
| tbarron | But right now I really like the simplicity and clarity of the shortest match semantics. | 15:45 |
| gouthamr | but enumerating all rules, denying them and adding them back is easy too :) | 15:45 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: not if you're a UI-clicker | 15:45 |
| tbarron | I agree that the compatability issue is important and promise to think about it. | 15:45 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: maybe we can fix that, bulk export 'export-rules' and bulk import 'export rules' via the UI :)( | 15:46 |
| tbarron | The most-specific-match proposal is listed in the spec as an alternative but there are not reasons given not to do it, so please fill | 15:46 |
| tbarron | those out if we're going to reject it. | 15:46 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: I also agree with the compatability, I think bswartz's way is good to solve the compatability | 15:46 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: so please explain that in the spec | 15:47 |
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| zhongjun_ | I missed it in my spec | 15:47 |
| tbarron | OK, any problem with taking one more week on this one? | 15:47 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: sure | 15:47 |
| tbarron | #topic Bugs | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:47 | |
| tbarron | dustins: ? | 15:48 |
| tbarron | #link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-bug-triage-pad | 15:48 |
| dustins | I've got a few from last week, yeah | 15:48 |
| dustins | We'll likely run out of time, but we can get through a few! | 15:48 |
| dustins | https://bugs.launchpad.net/manila/+bug/1762900 | 15:48 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1762900 in Manila "tearDownClass manila_tempest_tests.tests.api.test_share_networks_negative.ShareNetworksNegativeTest Failed" [Undecided,New] | 15:48 |
| * gouthamr we don't have bugs, 12 minutes is plenty | 15:48 | |
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| dustins | gouthamr: If only that were true | 15:49 |
| bswartz | dustins: any flavor here? | 15:50 |
| tbarron | is this another tempest resource cleanup issue? | 15:50 |
| dustins | bswartz: not really | 15:50 |
| gouthamr | interesting | 15:50 |
| dustins | tbarron: yes, it seems like another thing where our tests are not cleaning up after themselves | 15:51 |
| bswartz | It does feel like cleanups a possibly being done in the wrong order | 15:51 |
| gouthamr | this is a share-server cleanup issue | 15:51 |
| tbarron | it was found in newton (osp10) | 15:51 |
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| gouthamr | i.e, the share server still exists past the test and we're trying to tear down the dynamic credentials used to run the test class | 15:52 |
| * tbarron jokes: close with please upgrad and reopen if you hit it againi | 15:52 | |
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| gouthamr | tbarron: looks like someone's trying to run through RH-OSP certification here | 15:52 |
| tbarron | poor devil | 15:52 |
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| tbarron | well we should see if we can fix this one | 15:53 |
| dustins | Totally | 15:53 |
| * dustins thanks whomever added the summaries | 15:54 | |
| dustins | Any volunteers for looking at this one? | 15:54 |
| tbarron | tempest is branchless so unless this was fixed at a later commit we still have the issue | 15:54 |
| gouthamr | share.create_networks_when_multitenancy_enabled = False | 15:54 |
| gouthamr | interesting, i think the fix for this was proposed by Yogesh a while ago | 15:55 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: is the patch still around? | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: i may be wrong, but this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/493962/ | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | it's not made it to ocata and newton | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | was fixed in queens | 15:55 |
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| tbarron | ok, we can put it in stable/ocata and tell the victim to submit a downstream BZ for osp10 | 15:56 |
| dustins | Heh, victim | 15:56 |
| tbarron | stable/ocata is being maintained now | 15:56 |
| gouthamr | 2018-04-03 09:14:55.131 1036768 DEBUG tempest [-] share.share_network_id = 20439dd1-77b9-4f11-8ee9-ea944101dbdf | 15:57 |
| gouthamr | from the tempest log | 15:57 |
| gouthamr | i think there's a correlation here - they're pre-configuring the share-network | 15:57 |
| gouthamr | so they're only ever going to have 1 share server | 15:57 |
| gouthamr | throughout the test suite | 15:58 |
| tbarron | do we expect tempest to pass with that configuration? | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: no, hence the bug-fix | 15:58 |
| tbarron | right | 15:59 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: ok, will you update the bug? | 15:59 |
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| gouthamr | tbarron: yep, i'll ask some questions | 15:59 |
| tbarron | I'll review the patch. | 15:59 |
| tbarron | Just add reviewers to the patch as appropriate. | 15:59 |
| * bswartz peeks at the clock | 15:59 | |
| tbarron | We're out of time. | 15:59 |
| bswartz | ;-( | 15:59 |
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| tbarron | Thanks everyone!!! | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: although Yogesh'll probably helpful here if he has time away from kubernetes testing | 15:59 |
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| tbarron | old clouds, new clouds | 16:00 |
| tbarron | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 19 16:00:14 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-04-19-15.01.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-04-19-15.01.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-04-19-15.01.log.html | 16:00 |
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