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| tbarron | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 11 15:01:06 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tbarron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| bswartz | .o/ | 15:01 |
| carloss | hello :) | 15:01 |
| ganso | hello | 15:01 |
| tbarron | courtesy ping: gouthamr xyang toabctl bswartz ganso erlon tpsilva vkmc amito jgrosso | 15:01 |
| xyang | hi | 15:01 |
| *** vh_ has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:02 | |
| lseki | hi | 15:02 |
| tbarron | we have some conflicting meetings at my workplace today so attendance may be low | 15:02 |
| bswartz | doh! | 15:02 |
| vh_ | hi | 15:02 |
| tbarron | agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:02 |
| tbarron | #topic announcements | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:03 | |
| gouthamr | o/ | 15:03 |
| tbarron | Thanks bswartz for chairing last week's meeting! | 15:03 |
| *** vh_ is now known as vhariria | 15:03 | |
| bswartz | np | 15:03 |
| tbarron | So Stein shipped yesterday and stable/stein branch has been cut. | 15:03 |
| tbarron | That's really all on that front except | 15:04 |
| tbarron | I'll remind | 15:04 |
| tbarron | that our PTG planning etherpad is here: | 15:04 |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-denver-train-ptg-planning | 15:04 |
| tbarron | whew, I didn't paste in the ping list :) | 15:05 |
| tbarron | We hae lots of stuff to discuss and plan at PTG, so please look over the etherpad first | 15:05 |
| tbarron | Anyone else have any announcments? | 15:06 |
| tbarron | ok | 15:06 |
| tbarron | #topic Stable Backports | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stable Backports (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:06 | |
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| tbarron | We've spent some time during the release phase looking at backports to stable branches since | 15:07 |
| tbarron | we didn't have any release candidate bugs. | 15:07 |
| bswartz | Woot | 15:07 |
| vkmc_ | o/ | 15:07 |
| tbarron | hi vhariria lseki | 15:07 |
| tbarron | so we have some that need reviews from stable/backports cores | 15:08 |
| *** e0ne has quit IRC | 15:08 | |
| tbarron | as a reminder, this is a subset of the regular cores who | 15:08 |
| *** dhellmann has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:08 | |
| tbarron | are accepted not just by manila cores but by the central stable/releases team | 15:08 |
| tbarron | and they insist on seeing a track record of reviews of candidate backports before they let people join the club | 15:09 |
| bswartz | Do they have to also be manila reviewers? | 15:09 |
| tbarron | so if you are a core or an aspiring core and can't vote +/-2 your reviews are still helpful and | 15:09 |
| bswartz | Or can generalized stable-maint reviewers help us merge backports? | 15:09 |
| tbarron | you can built up a track record | 15:09 |
| tbarron | bswartz: I think they can theoretically but they don't | 15:10 |
| tbarron | they sometimes will -2/-2 though :) | 15:10 |
| bswartz | That might be something to bring up with the wider community | 15:10 |
| bswartz | If they want to centralize that function then more resource sharing would make more sense | 15:10 |
| tbarron | bswartz: yeah, we can ask about that | 15:10 |
| tbarron | anyways, we have some that need attention | 15:11 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/manila+branch:stable/queens | 15:11 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/648716/ | 15:11 |
| tbarron | We'd like to get these merged and then cut new stable/* releases before PTG | 15:12 |
| tbarron | Also, stable/pike will soon join stable/ocata as an EM branch | 15:12 |
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| tbarron | "extended maintenance" | 15:12 |
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| tbarron | which means no more releases but as long as our team has interest and resources to keep | 15:13 |
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| tbarron | CI going for those branches we can still backport to them | 15:13 |
| tbarron | We can check who still uses stable/ocata and stable/pike and see if this is worth it | 15:14 |
| tbarron | Red Hat at least will be maintaining stable/queens equivalent for some time but we have less interest in | 15:14 |
| tbarron | stable/ocata and stable/pike as time goes on | 15:15 |
| *** sridharg has quit IRC | 15:15 | |
| tbarron | so SUSE, canonical, etc. can weigh in if you care | 15:15 |
| tbarron | Anything else on this topic? | 15:15 |
| tbarron | #topic Followup on: Third party CIs and devs: DevStack plugin changes - we will no longer support installing manila-tempest-plugin | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Followup on: Third party CIs and devs: DevStack plugin changes - we will no longer support installing manila-tempest-plugin (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:16 | |
| tbarron | gouthamr thanks for broaching this topic last week | 15:16 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/648716/ | 15:16 |
| gouthamr | is seemingly harmless, because there's atleast one third party CI running there and passing | 15:16 |
| gouthamr | i started compiling an updated list of 3rd party CI maintainers - will email openstack-discuss and this list soon | 15:17 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: I tested that it didn't break first-party jobs even with the manila plugin left as is, so I think that's right | 15:17 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: thanks for working on that. | 15:18 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: seems like reasonable progress for one week. | 15:18 |
| tbarron | but I'd request some reviews of 648716 then. | 15:18 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: can we split out the devstack plugin changes from https://review.openstack.org/#/c/646037/ > | 15:18 |
| bswartz | Ooh it's NetApp CI | 15:18 |
| tbarron | I think we should go on and merge it and if there's any issues -- there shouldn't be -- we can flush them out. | 15:19 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: yes, are you thinking of a particular order is we split? | 15:19 |
| gouthamr | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/646037/ can depend on the manila devstack plugin changes and the manila-tempest-plugin patch (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/648716/) | 15:20 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: sure, any particular reason? | 15:21 |
| gouthamr | yes, because the changes to the devstack plugin aren't related to the python3 changes | 15:22 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: ok, -1 with a comment saying we should separate those concerns :) | 15:22 |
| gouthamr | sure will do | 15:22 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: they're glommed together b/c getting the lvm job to work with python3 required the devstack plugin change | 15:23 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: i don't fully understand why it didn't work w/o it, but both seemed the right thing to do and | 15:23 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: all the jobs really, we were installing manila-tempest-plugin with py2 | 15:23 |
| gouthamr | s/were/are | 15:23 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: well dummy and cephfs jobs were working with py3 I think | 15:24 |
| bswartz | Py2 is like a zombie. You try to kill it but it keeps coming back | 15:24 |
| tbarron | cephs is a different plugin though | 15:24 |
| tbarron | dummy I didn't understand but anyways | 15:24 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: iirc those were working because of the PYTHON3_VERSION variable | 15:24 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: yeah, but i couldn't get lvm to work even with it | 15:25 |
| tbarron | anyways, we'll separate the concerns, merge these in the right order, and have something we can understand a bit bettedr I hope | 15:25 |
| tbarron | Anything else on this topic? | 15:26 |
| tbarron | #topic bugs | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:26 | |
| * gouthamr is slow to type thanks to attending multiple-meetings, sry | 15:26 | |
| tbarron | gouthamr: anything else on the previous topic? | 15:27 |
| gouthamr | nope | 15:27 |
| tbarron | our wonderful bug overlord is out today | 15:27 |
| bswartz | In another meeting? | 15:27 |
| tbarron | I don't know if gouthamr or vhariria have anything? | 15:27 |
| tbarron | bswartz: no he's not in the office today. | 15:28 |
| tbarron | I don't think we had a lot of new bugs this week. | 15:28 |
| bswartz | I workflowed a few things | 15:28 |
| tbarron | I closed out a couple, jgrosso cleaning up bugs and surfacing issues that we need to address has been | 15:28 |
| tbarron | very helpful. | 15:28 |
| tbarron | bswartz: thanks! | 15:28 |
| bswartz | Is 646037 the one that will get split? | 15:28 |
| tbarron | bswartz: yes | 15:29 |
| vhariria | tbarron: nothing new, jgrosso is out no updates yet | 15:29 |
| bswartz | Why must there be so much yaml? | 15:29 |
| tbarron | it's title indicates the original goal but I glommed all kinds of other stuff onto it | 15:30 |
| tbarron | bswartz: so that it's not json | 15:30 |
| tbarron | bswartz: or xml | 15:30 |
| tbarron | I declare.... | 15:30 |
| tbarron | vhariria: thanks | 15:30 |
| bswartz | Yes, but the volume of "markup" text is truly behemoth | 15:30 |
| tbarron | bswartz: no argument from me on that :) | 15:30 |
| bswartz | And I sense a lot of copy/pasting | 15:30 |
| bswartz | Is this because of stuff we've done or is it because of indra? | 15:31 |
| bswartz | s/indra/infra/ | 15:31 |
| tbarron | bswartz: I think both | 15:31 |
| tbarron | bswartz: with JJB it was more centralized, then these "legacy jobs" don't really take advantage of | 15:32 |
| gouthamr | hopefully, with converting these from legazy to native zuul v3 manifests, we can use templates to remove some of the duplication | 15:32 |
| tbarron | what we can do with zuulv3 to make this stuff more modular | 15:32 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: +100 | 15:32 |
| tbarron | ^^^ what gouthamr said | 15:32 |
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| tbarron | this is like halfway through a code refactor, when you expand it all to see how you can re-modularize | 15:33 |
| bswartz | I strikes me as odd that we're embedding vast amounts of bash code in yaml files | 15:33 |
| tbarron | bswartz: it is odd | 15:33 |
| tbarron | I think you'll like the native zuulv3 jobs a lot better | 15:34 |
| tbarron | but no one has had time to really tackle the conversion yet | 15:34 |
| tbarron | While we're on bugs though. | 15:35 |
| tbarron | lseki: how is that scaling bug going? | 15:35 |
| tbarron | lseki: the one SAP found? | 15:35 |
| tbarron | lseki: I think to reproduce it the dummy back end isn't going to be helpful. | 15:35 |
| vkmc_ | We need to plan that with time, I'm aware 3rd parties use the post and pre test scripts and might need time to migrate | 15:36 |
| lseki | tbarron: the support team is contacting SAP folks to gather more info | 15:36 |
| tbarron | lseki: it doesn't have any inertia in manila-share. | 15:36 |
| tbarron | lseki: and as I understand it, the scheduler is showing manila-share as down when you have a lot of manila-share services under load. | 15:36 |
| vkmc_ | re zuulv3 | 15:37 |
| tbarron | vkmc_: yes, 3rd party conversion is another whole aspect :) | 15:37 |
| tbarron | vkmc_: we might end up moving first party jobs off of those scripts but still need to keep them for some time. | 15:38 |
| tbarron | lseki: it will be interesting to see what SAP says. | 15:38 |
| bswartz | A service being marked "down" just means it hasn't sent a heartbeat in a while | 15:38 |
| bswartz | For a service under load, I think it's easy to understand how that might happen | 15:39 |
| bswartz | The question is how to manage the load better | 15:39 |
| tbarron | bswartz: do you think that's all up to the driver for that back end or could we handle it better centrally? | 15:40 |
| lseki | tbarron: yes, we'll keep it up-to-date at launchpad when SAP folks answer | 15:40 |
| bswartz | tbarron: if the driver is able to behave badly enough to cause this symptom, then we have an architectural problem | 15:40 |
| bswartz | Ideally all drivers would behave well, but there's no way to ensure that | 15:41 |
| tbarron | bswartz: like maybe drivers should share some kind of threading library routine so that we can say it's healthy even if it's busy | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | So there has to be a mechanism to prevent driver slowness from causing availability problems | 15:41 |
| tbarron | I'm particularly interested in this issue b/c there are manila customers who want to deploy circa 100 manila-share services | 15:42 |
| tbarron | The odds of some of these being busy are higher with more deployed. | 15:42 |
| tbarron | And the odds of the scheduler somehow missing updates are higher. | 15:42 |
| tbarron | And these will be "edge" deployments meaning that it is expected that | 15:43 |
| tbarron | from time to time they will lose connectivity back to the central borg. | 15:43 |
| tbarron | We don't want to confuse that kind of partition with | 15:43 |
| bswartz | We need to think through this use case carefully | 15:43 |
| tbarron | a false-negative like the stuff that this bug reports. | 15:43 |
| bswartz | I can think of a few ways to attack the problem, but I don't understand the details well enough | 15:44 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we have this as a PTG topic, so I am pointing ahead of time to it now. | 15:44 |
| bswartz | Oh good | 15:44 |
| tbarron | bswartz: cinder and manila both | 15:44 |
| bswartz | Please try to schedule at a time I can participate (i.e. relatively early in the day) | 15:45 |
| tbarron | we'll probably do early Friday on this one, after introductions, PTG schedule/agenda, and retrospective. | 15:45 |
| tbarron | so later morning east coast US time | 15:46 |
| tbarron | An aspect of this as well is that we really want to get manila-share (and cinder-volume) running active-active, w/o | 15:46 |
| tbarron | pacemaker control. | 15:46 |
| bswartz | That's a whole other dimension of complexity | 15:47 |
| tbarron | That's because edge deployments may end up using software defined storage on hyperconverged nodes | 15:47 |
| tbarron | and if you manage them active/passive with pacemaker then you risk losing a lot of your storage just | 15:47 |
| tbarron | because some service appears unhealthy. | 15:47 |
| tbarron | bswartz: yes :) | 15:48 |
| tbarron | So there are some really interesting and important issues for this PTG I think. | 15:48 |
| tbarron | plan of record for manila is to use DLM (tooz backed by etcd) for active-active synchronization issues but | 15:49 |
| bswartz | If only python wasn't single-threaded | 15:49 |
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| tbarron | for these edge deployments there would be separate DLM clusters at the edges and given the | 15:49 |
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| tbarron | possibility of edge partitions running etcd cluster from central borg all the way to edges may be | 15:49 |
| bswartz | Language issues bite us again and again | 15:49 |
| tbarron | problematic | 15:49 |
| tbarron | so and issue for manila to consider is re-architecting the cases where we rely on locking across services | 15:50 |
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| tbarron | an issue | 15:52 |
| tbarron | we'd need to use the DB for exclusion in some cases where we use locks held across service casts today | 15:52 |
| tbarron | OK, just floating stuff for people to think about! | 15:52 |
| tbarron | manila still has lots of very interesting issues to work on! | 15:52 |
| tbarron | bswartz: mebbe we should do some of this with goroutines | 15:52 |
| tbarron | ok, perhaps belated :) | 15:52 |
| bswartz | Yes, rewrite all of openstack in go | 15:52 |
| tbarron | #topic open discussion | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:53 | |
| bswartz | That definitely won't cause any bugs | 15:53 |
| tbarron | bswartz: :) | 15:53 |
| bswartz | >_< | 15:53 |
| bswartz | I really do like go as a language, and I regret that it wasn't mature enough when work on openstack started | 15:53 |
| tbarron | less drastic may be squeezing out eventlet and leveraging some native threading and multiprocessing stuff | 15:53 |
| tbarron | i find i like types | 15:54 |
| bswartz | Indeed | 15:54 |
| tbarron | for production code | 15:54 |
| tbarron | though for scripting it's nice to be able to be lazy | 15:54 |
| bswartz | +1 | 15:55 |
| tbarron | Seems like we're through for today. | 15:55 |
| tbarron | Thanks everyone, see you in #openstack-manila and let's get ready for PTG! | 15:56 |
| tbarron | #endmeeting | 15:56 |
| bswartz | Thanks! | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 11 15:56:04 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2019/manila.2019-04-11-15.01.html | 15:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2019/manila.2019-04-11-15.01.txt | 15:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2019/manila.2019-04-11-15.01.log.html | 15:56 |
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