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| renuka | Hello, shall we start the volume meeting? | 18:01 |
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| DuncanT | Hi | 18:04 |
| renuka | do we have representation from the volume group? | 18:04 |
| renuka | DuncanT: Hi | 18:04 |
| renuka | I did not have anything specific to bring up in today's meeting... I will start to look at boot from volume support in xenapi in the next few days | 18:05 |
| renuka | DuncanT: did you have any updates from the affinity work? Anything HP would like to discuss? | 18:06 |
| jdg | I'm finishing up my work for a SolidFire class in ISCSIDriver, may need some pointers/help from folks regarding submittal. | 18:07 |
| renuka | jdg: would you like to talk about it here today? | 18:07 |
| DuncanT | renuka: I've not done enough with affinity to have a useful update, busy week unfortunately | 18:07 |
| jdg | renuka: sure, if folks have the time and we're not bumping other topics | 18:08 |
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| renuka | #startmeeting | 18:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 10 18:08:23 2011 UTC. The chair is renuka. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 18:08 |
| renuka | #topic SolidFire volume driver | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SolidFire volume driver" | 18:08 | |
| DuncanT | I was kind of hoping I could get a quick comment from somebody on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/888649 and whether they thoguh it was a real bug if we're time? | 18:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 888649 in nova "Snapshots left in undeletable state" [Undecided,New] | 18:08 |
| jdg | I've implemented a SolidFireISCSIDriver in nova/volume/san.py and done a bit of testing here. | 18:09 |
| jdg | Had a couple of questions regarding reviews, submittal etc | 18:10 |
| jdg | Also wanted to make sure I was not incorrect in my assumptions. | 18:10 |
| renuka | jdg: all ears | 18:11 |
| jdg | Ok.. | 18:11 |
| jdg | So we behave bit differently than others. | 18:11 |
| jdg | In order to create a volume you need to have an estabilished account-ID | 18:11 |
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| jdg | This account ID also includes all of the CHAP settings and information | 18:12 |
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| jdg | What I ended upd with is that the only methods really implemented are create/delete volume. | 18:12 |
| jdg | We don't have any concept of export, assign etc. When a volume is created it's ready for use. | 18:12 |
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| jdg | So my proposal was: Openstack administrator would create an account on the SF appliance for each compute node | 18:13 |
| jdg | They would also set up /etc/iscsid.conf with the appropriate chap settings on each compute node. | 18:13 |
| jdg | The only other thing that would be needed is a FLAG for the account ID to use on each compute node | 18:14 |
| jdg | I didn't want to add anything specific to the base class driver, or the db etc. | 18:14 |
| jdg | Does this sound reasonable? | 18:14 |
| renuka | Why is the account for a compute node, versus how it is normally done, on a per user basis | 18:15 |
| jdg | So we have two different accounts we use: | 18:15 |
| jdg | 1. The actual management account to send API commands | 18:15 |
| jdg | 2. A user account associated with each volume that has the CHAP info embedded | 18:16 |
| jdg | Perhaps I overlooked a way to do this with the existing user accounts? | 18:16 |
| jdg | My thought was that since the Compute node will actually make the ISCSI connection to the Volume and pass it to the VM's via LVM this seemed to make sense | 18:17 |
| jdg | Did I miss something in how the ISCSI implementation works maybe? | 18:17 |
| renuka | What is typically done is, during the attach call, we have a way of passing connection information (which the volume driver is responsible for) to the compute node that this volume will be attached to | 18:17 |
| jdg | Right, but I have this chicken or egg situation. I can't create a volume without an account | 18:18 |
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| jdg | I have to have the account-ID at creation time which includes CHAP info... | 18:18 |
| jdg | #idea What I could do is dynamically create an a random account each time. | 18:19 |
| jdg | This would then fit more in to the model that you have today. | 18:19 |
| renuka | are you using some proprietary code for auth? | 18:19 |
| jdg | No, it's just CHAP | 18:19 |
| renuka | we don't have a way of associating this info when we create a user today? | 18:21 |
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| jdg | Not that I could find | 18:21 |
| DuncanT | jdg: Is there a copy of the driver available at all, to see exactly what you did? | 18:21 |
| renuka | i agree, looking at code might be useful | 18:22 |
| jdg | DuncanT: I'm happy to post it/send it. | 18:22 |
| jdg | There's nothing modified in the existing code, just the addition of my sub-class and one added FLAG in san.py | 18:22 |
| renuka | jdg: I am not entirely sure creating random accounts makes sense... sounds more like a hack | 18:23 |
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| jdg | It's a total hack :) | 18:23 |
| jdg | That's why I thought the account by compute node was a better approach | 18:23 |
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| DuncanT | The flag / account per node sounds reasonable to me | 18:23 |
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| renuka | although how would you deal with it when the user's vm moves from one compute node to another | 18:24 |
| renuka | or if the user wants to now attach it to a VM on a different compute node | 18:24 |
| vishy | jdg: you will probably have to maintain a mapping of tenants to backend accounts in your backend | 18:24 |
| jdg | I came up with two ideas, one would be to do a clone of the volume (this is really just a map copy for us so not a big deal) | 18:24 |
| renuka | then you are completely eliminating any kind of auth anyway... so might as well have a single admin account... if the only purpose is to beat some hardware limitation | 18:24 |
| jdg | renuka: and there's the second option (single admin account) | 18:25 |
| vishy | jdg: you could have the driver dynamically create a backend account the first time it sees a given tenant and store the info | 18:25 |
| jdg | vishy: This would be ideal, not sure how this works though? | 18:26 |
| vishy | every request you get contains a context object | 18:26 |
| renuka | vishy: that assumes the user never needs their own credentials | 18:26 |
| vishy | context.project_id | 18:26 |
| vishy | renuka: why would they? | 18:26 |
| jdg | Ahh... so perhaps I could create an account-ID based on the project_id | 18:26 |
| vishy | renuka: I don't think you want to give users direct access to the infrastructure that makes the cloud work | 18:26 |
| renuka | jdg: didn't you say the users are created with CHAP info | 18:27 |
| vishy | jdg: exactly | 18:27 |
| vishy | project_id is the canonical tenant_id from keystone | 18:27 |
| jdg | renuka: yes | 18:27 |
| vishy | so project_id is already verified as the user | 18:27 |
| jdg | When creating the account via our api you need to include the desired CHAP settings. | 18:27 |
| jdg | If I do this via project_id, then I can return the info via the assign/export method. | 18:28 |
| vishy | jdg: so you look up the account based on project_id, if it doesn't exist | 18:28 |
| jdg | Yep | 18:28 |
| renuka | isn't it cleaner to just have an extension which adds CHAP info for a user | 18:28 |
| vishy | create an account in the backend with a random chap password and store it | 18:28 |
| renuka | at the time the user account is created | 18:29 |
| vishy | renuka: that is in keystone | 18:29 |
| vishy | renuka: which means we would have to make a request back to keystone to get the chap info | 18:29 |
| renuka | yea, that was my next qs... is it worth looking into using keystone for volume? | 18:29 |
| vishy | renuka: long term that might be better, but I don't know if it is worth it short term. | 18:30 |
| jdg | So short term... | 18:30 |
| jdg | Today, who calls the export/assign methods to get the chap info after creation? And how is this set up in /etc/initd.conf on the cmpute node? | 18:30 |
| vishy | keystone does support other credential sets. We use them for ec2. | 18:31 |
| vishy | jdg: there is a call called initialize_connection | 18:31 |
| vishy | you pass in an ip address and get back connection info | 18:31 |
| vishy | and the setup on the compute node is different depending on the backend | 18:31 |
| jdg | Ok, so it sounds like the cleanest initial implementation is: | 18:32 |
| jdg | 1. call to create_volume comes in | 18:32 |
| jdg | 2. I use the project_id to check if an account-id exists, if not I create it | 18:32 |
| jdg | 3. create the volume | 18:32 |
| vishy | yes, the one remaining question is, where is chap info stored? | 18:33 |
| jdg | 4. Chap information is returned to initialize_connection the same as it is today | 18:33 |
| vishy | will you have multiple drivers connecting to the same backend? | 18:33 |
| jdg | ISCSI only | 18:33 |
| vishy | sorry i mean multiple copies of the driver code | 18:33 |
| vishy | as in multiple nova-volume hosts | 18:33 |
| jdg | yes | 18:34 |
| vishy | because if so, the chap info needs to be stored in the db | 18:34 |
| vishy | so it can be retrieved from another host if necessary | 18:34 |
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| jdg | right, but couldn't I do that through model_update? | 18:34 |
| vishy | and there are race conditions that will be a little nasty | 18:34 |
| vishy | chap currently can be stored in a volume but not associated with a project_id | 18:35 |
| vishy | you could do something hacky like look for any volume with the project_id and get the chap info from there | 18:35 |
| vishy | (including deleted volumes), but it seems a little fragile | 18:35 |
| renuka | jdg: so just to be clear, you are ok with throwing away the initial CHAP credentials generated when the account was created, and from the first create call onwards, you will be using fake ones? | 18:35 |
| vishy | oh? I didn't get that | 18:36 |
| jdg | renuka: no, unfortunatley that's not the case | 18:36 |
| vishy | jdg: so you need to be able to get that initial set of creds again | 18:36 |
| vishy | for the second volume | 18:36 |
| jdg | I don't even need the creds again, I just need an account-id (int) | 18:37 |
| vishy | if there is only one copy of the volume-driver, you could just store it on disks. | 18:37 |
| jdg | and it has to exist of course | 18:37 |
| vishy | jdg: oh? | 18:37 |
| vishy | jdg: it will pass the creds back to you later? | 18:37 |
| renuka | here's the thing, if this is all being done simply to beat the hardware, might as well have a single account, no? | 18:37 |
| jdg | Yes, you can do a get_account_info call or something along those lines | 18:37 |
| jdg | renuka: I'm leaning towards this idea at least for the first pass | 18:38 |
| vishy | jdg: oh in that case, I think that is all fine. You don't need to store the creds at all | 18:38 |
| renuka | jdg: this = single account? | 18:38 |
| jdg | renuka: correct | 18:38 |
| vishy | renuka: I agree, it is kind of security theatre, but at least you can look in the backend and see which volumes belong to which account | 18:38 |
| jdg | So to reiterate: | 18:39 |
| vishy | renuka: even if it isn't inherently more secure than using an account per project | 18:39 |
| jdg | The openstack admin sets up the SF appliance and creates some "global" SF-volume account | 18:39 |
| jdg | Any compute node that will attach to the SF appliance will use this account for volume creation | 18:40 |
| jdg | I have all kinds of capabilities to create/return account info, the problem is it's all custom, and I don't know how to build and extension that plays nicely with all the other components | 18:41 |
| jdg | Does this still make sense or am I missing something obvious? | 18:42 |
| renuka | jdg: I think the first pass with a single account makes sense at this point | 18:42 |
| DuncanT | Certainly seems to make sense | 18:43 |
| jdg | Ok, thanks. I'll submit what I"ve done along with a design doc later today | 18:43 |
| renuka | as long as the division between create/delete and attach/detach is clean, I think it can be extended to use account info | 18:44 |
| jdg | Not sur of the process but perhaps someone can help me with that outside of the meeting later today | 18:44 |
| renuka | once we become more clear of what the driver does | 18:44 |
| jdg | Remember, though. That's the problem, we don't have an attach/detach phase. | 18:44 |
| jdg | We are "ready for use" on creation | 18:44 |
| DuncanT | So your iscsi volumes are all always mounted on every compute host? | 18:45 |
| renuka | jdg: how does a VM on a random compute node connect to the storage? | 18:45 |
| jdg | Sorry, may have sarted a rat hole. I mean form the SF appliance. There is no seperate attach command. | 18:46 |
| jdg | This is where the requirement for the account-id comes into play because it contains the chap info | 18:46 |
| renuka | oh the attach command we are talking of is a nova thing | 18:46 |
| jdg | Right... figured that out :) | 18:46 |
| jdg | Ok, I'll send my docs and code and hopefully it will clarify | 18:47 |
| jdg | Thanks for walking through it with me!! | 18:47 |
| renuka | yea, what i meant was, as long as creating the volume, and attaching it to the VM on compute node have been clearly separated, ...etc | 18:47 |
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| renuka | sure | 18:47 |
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| jdg | Yes.. that part should be very cleanly seperated | 18:47 |
| renuka | #action jdg to send out docs for SolidFire driver | 18:47 |
| renuka | #action openstack-volume to review SolidFire design | 18:48 |
| renuka | DuncanT: I haven't tried to repro the snapshot bug | 18:51 |
| renuka | is that affecting you? | 18:51 |
| DuncanT | It is, yes | 18:51 |
| DuncanT | What I'm trying to get input on is what the correct behaviour should be | 18:51 |
| DuncanT | We can have snapshots in existance after the volumes they came from have been delete just fine | 18:52 |
| DuncanT | LVM for example can't | 18:52 |
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| DuncanT | Hence I /think/ that the driver for LVM needs to either block the volume delete if there are snapshots, or delete the snapshots. | 18:53 |
| renuka | makes sense | 18:53 |
| DuncanT | I'm happy to provide patches for one behaviour or the other, jsut wanted some input on which to pick | 18:53 |
| renuka | sounds like a question for the mailing list. | 18:54 |
| DuncanT | Fair enough, I'll post it up | 18:54 |
| vishy | DuncanT: I would think delete, but yes ask for input from the people using it | 18:54 |
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| DuncanT | vishy: Cheers | 18:55 |
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| renuka | anything else before we wrap up? | 18:56 |
| DuncanT | I'm done for now... will post something to the list about snapshot/backup soon, almost got a sane first pass at design and example code | 18:56 |
| renuka | right, thanks all | 18:58 |
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| renuka | #endmeeting | 18:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 18:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 10 18:58:22 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-11-10-18.08.html | 18:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-11-10-18.08.txt | 18:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-11-10-18.08.log.html | 18:58 |
| DuncanT | Thanks renuka. Keeping to time again. If only all meets managed that :-) | 18:58 |
| jdg | Thanks a bunch Renuka | 18:59 |
| jdg | And Vishy, all for helping me out | 18:59 |
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| vishy | yw | 19:00 |
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